Larry King Live (CNN) - 2006-07-23

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

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[0:06] >> The Middle East erupts and CNN is right

[0:09] there on the ground with the story

[0:11] firsthand.

[0:12] >> We've heard several loud explosions now.

[0:13] A dull, a thud. See what happens.

[0:16] >> Essential reporting from CNN, the most

[0:18] trusted name in news.

[0:25] Tonight, no letup in the deadly attacks

[0:28] between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

[0:31] 12 days into the conflict, Secretary of

[0:33] State Condisa Rice leaves tonight for

[0:36] the Middle East. Can she stop the

[0:38] bloodshed? We'll ask three diplomatic

[0:40] heavyweights, George Mitchell, the M

[0:43] East peace negotiator and former Senate

[0:45] majority leader, Jean Kirkpatrick, the

[0:48] former US ambassador to the UN under

[0:50] President Reagan, and Zabig Nebinski,

[0:53] the former national security adviser to

[0:55] President Carter. He helped broker the

[0:58] 1978 Camp David Middle East Accords.

[1:01] Plus, Tony Bourdain, the celebrity chef,

[1:04] shooting his TV show in Beirut when all

[1:07] hell broke loose. and all the latest

[1:09] with reporters on the front lines. It's

[1:11] all next on Larry King Live.

[1:22] First, we'll make our sweep of our

[1:24] outstanding journalists doing

[1:25] outstanding work all over the region. We

[1:28] begin with Christian Amanpor in northern

[1:30] Israel. As she joins us, let's hear a

[1:32] report that she made earlier on how hard

[1:34] it is there to gain ground and keep it.

[1:36] Watch.

[1:40] An Israeli tank rumbles back across the

[1:43] border from Lebanon after battling

[1:46] Hezbollah militants in the small hilltop

[1:48] town of Maroon Al-Ras.

[1:52] Oh, the tank commander says it was a

[1:54] very hard battle. Two of their tanks

[1:57] were ambushed.

[1:59] >> They were ready for us. They have a lot

[2:01] of ammunition. They have guns. They have

[2:03] everything they need. He says

[2:06] in all, six Israeli soldiers were killed

[2:09] and several more were wounded in the

[2:11] fight for this one village. Even though

[2:14] the army high command says they've now

[2:16] captured the village, their helicopters

[2:18] and tanks are still shelling it and

[2:21] their soldiers are still trading fire

[2:23] there with Hezbollah.

[2:26] >> Christian, based on what we've just

[2:28] seen, is this going to be a very long

[2:30] hard go at it?

[2:33] Well, it it looks like it's a hard slog.

[2:35] I mean, the Israeli military commanders

[2:37] who brief us tell us that, you know,

[2:38] they're making progress. They've got a

[2:40] certain amount of of the of the military

[2:43] equipment and infrastructure. They've

[2:45] got 100 Hezbollah they say they've

[2:46] killed. But this one village, which is

[2:48] just a few hundred meters across uh that

[2:50] we've been really witnessing from the

[2:52] Israeli side for the last several days,

[2:54] it's meant to be in control of of the

[2:56] Israelis, but it's still, you know,

[2:58] firefights, skirmishes, and this and

[3:00] that. So, it's going to take a while.

[3:02] And that's certainly the word we're

[3:03] hearing from the high command.

[3:06] >> Anderson Cooper joins us from Beirut. He

[3:08] will host Anderson Koopa 360 at the top

[3:10] of the hour immediately following this

[3:12] program. What's the latest on the

[3:14] situation in Lebanon?

[3:17] >> Uh Larry, it is very much as it was the

[3:19] day before. There were bombings here in

[3:21] Beirut. Perhaps not as many as we have

[3:23] seen in recent days. Uh they they uh

[3:25] they suddenly break up uh suddenly break

[3:28] out of nowhere. Loud explosions. Several

[3:31] of them rocked Beirut earlier today. Uh

[3:33] but that was really it in terms of of

[3:35] the the aerial assaults that we have

[3:37] been seeing. We haven't heard as many

[3:39] Israeli drones uh throughout the day as

[3:41] we perhaps normally do. The action

[3:42] really seems to be centered down in

[3:44] south Lebanon fighting around the city

[3:46] of Ty fighting around the the town that

[3:49] Cristian was just talking about. Uh that

[3:51] is really where Israeli ground forces

[3:53] are certainly focused uh their action.

[3:56] We have uh lots of people now, Lebanese,

[3:58] trying to stream out of southern

[4:00] Lebanon. Uh many of them ending up here

[4:02] in Beirut. They're sleeping in the

[4:04] parks. They're sleeping in city schools.

[4:06] Hezbollah, though, still firmly in

[4:08] control of the south of Beirut, the the

[4:10] territory that they have traditionally

[4:12] controlled. It's really a state within a

[4:14] state. Um and that is where the Israelis

[4:16] are focusing their firepower when they

[4:18] do attack here in Beirut. Sorry.

[4:20] >> And didn't wasn't there a military hit

[4:22] from Israel over a Palestinian refugee

[4:25] camp in southern Lebanon today as well?

[4:28] >> Uh yeah, that was in in southern uh in

[4:30] southern Lebanon. Uh we don't have

[4:32] reports of of injuries. There was uh one

[4:34] uh according to Lebanese uh uh

[4:36] broadcasting, there was one death of a

[4:39] of a Lebanese journalist. Uh if that is

[4:41] true, that would be the first journalist

[4:43] to to die in in this conflict uh in

[4:46] these past 12 days. Larry,

[4:48] >> thanks Anderson. John Roberts is in

[4:50] Hifa, our CNN senior national

[4:52] correspondent. Rockets still hitting

[4:54] there.

[4:56] >> Good news and bad news today, Larry. The

[4:58] good news is that only 90 Kusha rockets

[5:00] fell on Israel fired from Hezbollah on

[5:02] the Lebanese side of the border. The bad

[5:04] news is that two people died here in

[5:06] Hifa today. The num the number of 90

[5:09] represents a little bit more than half

[5:10] of the number of Kushians that came over

[5:12] yesterday. Difficult to say whether or

[5:14] not that's a result of the Israeli

[5:16] Defense Forces degrading Hezbollah's

[5:18] capability or Hezbollah just decided not

[5:20] to fire as many rockets today, but two

[5:23] deaths. One of a man who was in a

[5:24] woodworking shop down in industrial area

[5:27] where a Kusha rocket hit and another

[5:29] one, I mean, you talk about terrible bad

[5:31] luck. This fellow was in the middle of a

[5:34] field in a kabutz. His car was parked on

[5:37] a road. The rocket landed nearly right

[5:39] on top of him. That entire open area and

[5:41] it chose to land right on top of him.

[5:43] But also some stories of miraculous

[5:45] escape today as well in a suburb called

[5:47] Neser, which is about 3 miles away from

[5:50] here. A man and his young son were

[5:51] hiding downstairs in their shelter in

[5:53] their basement. The rocket came through

[5:54] the top of the house, literally blew the

[5:56] top of the house off, went down through

[5:57] the second floor into the basement that

[5:59] where they were after going through 4 in

[6:01] of concrete, exploded down there. and

[6:03] Larry. Miraculously, they were covered

[6:06] in dust and they were a little bit

[6:07] dazed, but they were completely

[6:09] uninjured.

[6:10] >> Wow. John Robertson, hyphen. Now, let's

[6:12] go to Damascus. Halagorani

[6:15] on the latest there. The Syrian

[6:16] information minister, we understand

[6:17] Hollow has warned that if Israel invades

[6:19] Lebanon and comes too close for Syria,

[6:22] Syria is going to get involved. What do

[6:24] you hear?

[6:26] >> Yes. What? Yes, that is what Mosen Bilal

[6:29] said and we were able to confirm it. He

[6:31] said if there is an Israeli ground

[6:33] invasion, then Israeli troops could

[6:35] potentially come within 12 12 miles of

[6:38] the Syrian capital. Now, even though

[6:40] that's not exactly geographically

[6:41] possible, the point he is making is the

[6:43] one you also raised there, Larry, which

[6:45] is that uh if Israeli ground troops come

[6:48] too far into Lebanese territory, they

[6:50] will get close to Syrian territory and

[6:52] they will threaten national security.

[6:54] According to Mosen Bilal, the question

[6:56] at this point is whether this is

[6:58] political rhetoric or if this is a shift

[7:00] in Syrian policy because it is a

[7:02] departure from previous statements.

[7:04] Syrian officials in the past 10 days

[7:06] have said Syria would only get involved

[7:08] if it is directly attacked. Is this a

[7:10] way for Syria to get attention from the

[7:12] United States? As Condisa Rice visits

[7:15] the region, it has expressed interest in

[7:17] direct talks with America. And this is

[7:19] something many analysts say the US is so

[7:22] far not ready to do. Larry,

[7:24] >> thanks. Halah, Halagarani, Anderson

[7:25] Cooper, John Robinson, Christian

[7:27] Amanpor. When we come back, we'll get

[7:28] the representative from Israel, and

[7:31] we'll meet Ambassador Jean Kirkpatrick

[7:33] and former Senator George Mitchell.

[7:35] That's all ahead next on Larry King

[7:37] Live.

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[9:54] Monday on American Morning, we are live

[9:56] and on the front lines of the crisis in

[9:58] the Middle East. As the bombs continue

[9:59] to fall, as the casualties continue to

[10:01] grow, and as the evacuations expand,

[10:03] what's it going to take to end the

[10:05] violence? We'll take a look at that on

[10:06] Monday on American Morning.

[10:09] >> Let's get to the truth. It's time for

[10:10] answers. Lou Doss tonight, CNN Monday, 6

[10:13] Eastern.

[10:18] >> Welcome back to a special live Sunday

[10:20] night edition of Larry King Live.

[10:21] Secretary of State Condisa Rice leaves

[10:23] for the region tonight, is expected to

[10:25] meet first with Israeli Prime Minister

[10:27] Ahoud Almerit and then with Palestinian

[10:30] President Muhammad Abbas. Standing by in

[10:32] Tel Aviv is Israeli government

[10:34] spokesperson Mauricei Eisen, a former

[10:37] colonel in the Israeli Defense Forces.

[10:39] Unfortunately, representatives from

[10:41] Hezbollah and the Syrian government were

[10:43] unavailable tonight. Mary, what do you

[10:46] expect from the meeting between Condisa

[10:48] Rice and the prime minister?

[10:52] >> Well, good evening, Larry. I think that

[10:54] the most important thing for us in

[10:56] Israel is first of all the international

[10:58] backing, the backing of the United

[11:00] States. It's very clear right now that

[11:02] the United States really understands

[11:05] what we're fighting, what we're trying

[11:06] to defend.bala Bbala is still firing

[11:09] rockets, still terrorizing the northern

[11:12] portion of Israel, still taking hostage

[11:14] the Lebanese government. We hope to hear

[11:17] from Secretary of State Rice, the

[11:19] backing for Israel and the understanding

[11:22] that we cannot go back to where we were

[11:24] almost two weeks ago. We can't continue

[11:27] having Kusha rockets on our northern

[11:29] border. We can't have a terrorist

[11:31] organization deployed there as if

[11:33] they're part of Lebanon. Mirie,

[11:35] Lebanon's minister of foreign affairs

[11:37] says that the two Israeli soldiers taken

[11:39] by taken by Hezbollah are in good health

[11:41] and safe. Do you accept that on word

[11:44] alone?

[11:47] >> We don't expect it on word alone, but we

[11:49] w we are happy to hear such things. For

[11:51] us, that's very important. They were

[11:53] abducted from Israeli territory in that

[11:56] crossber attack and we don't know

[11:58] anything about them.

[12:00] has not said anything about what happens

[12:02] with them. And it's good to hear that.

[12:04] It's important for us, you know, in

[12:06] Israel every day, not only on TV and on

[12:09] the radio, but everywhere you go, you

[12:11] listen to people here who know and they

[12:13] ask, "How's Eland Dad? How are they

[12:15] doing? We all know their names. We know

[12:18] who they are." These are not just

[12:20] figures for us, these soldiers who were

[12:21] kidnapped. It's the two both who were

[12:23] kidnapped by Kisbala and the additional

[12:25] one, Gilad, who was kidnapped by the

[12:27] Kamas and the Palestinian Authority. and

[12:29] we have no idea how they are, where they

[12:32] are. So, it's good to hear something

[12:33] about them.

[12:35] >> What do you hear on the latest about the

[12:37] condition of former Prime Minister Ariel

[12:38] Chiron?

[12:41] >> Well, you know that here it's 4:00 in

[12:43] the morning. I'm only updated to

[12:45] yesterday evening. We all heard that he

[12:47] had gotten worse. I don't know anything

[12:49] additional here. I'm sure you'll join

[12:51] me. We're all here in Israel praying for

[12:54] former Prime Minister Chiron, a very

[12:57] central, important, dominant figure in

[12:59] Israeli history, in Israeli politics,

[13:02] and we all pray for his for his good

[13:04] being.

[13:05] >> Thank you, Mary. And we'll be checking

[13:06] in with you again tomorrow night. Let's

[13:08] go now to Washington DC. Ambassador Gene

[13:10] Kirkpatrick. Haven't seen Gene in a long

[13:12] time. The former US ambassador to the UN

[13:14] during the Reagan administration. She's

[13:16] now a senior fellow at the American

[13:17] Enterprise Institute. And in northeast

[13:19] Harbor, Maine, George Mitchell, the

[13:21] former Senate Majority Leader,

[13:22] international peace negotiator. He

[13:24] served as chairman of the Charmeal Shik

[13:27] International Factfinding Committee on

[13:29] the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

[13:31] Ambassador Kurt Patrick, what do you

[13:33] think is going to happen from Secretary

[13:35] Rice's trip?

[13:37] >> You know, I think it's impossible to

[13:38] know, just as it's impossible to know

[13:40] exactly what's going to happen to the

[13:42] kidnapped Israeli prisoners.

[13:46] Uh, I think that the state of Israel is

[13:49] going to make a continuing serious

[13:52] effort to retake

[13:55] recapture those

[13:58] airmen and the Hezbollah is going to

[14:01] make a continued effort to prevent that

[14:03] from happening. And I don't see

[14:07] I don't see the probable outcome

[14:10] yet. Eventually, I think the Israelis

[14:13] will recapture those airmen because

[14:15] Israel will not give up its airmen as we

[14:18] know.

[14:19] >> George Mitchell, do you uh think the

[14:22] secretary's trip is too late?

[14:25] >> Uh I do, Larry, but the important thing

[14:27] is that she is going and my hope is that

[14:31] there will be serious discussions uh to

[14:34] try to develop a comprehensive package

[14:36] that would involve an end to the

[14:39] violence. uh a a zone in the south of

[14:43] Lebanon that uh is uh covered by a an

[14:47] international force with a robust

[14:50] mandate that will make certain that uh

[14:53] Israel's northern border is protected uh

[14:57] and that will begin a process of

[14:59] deescalation

[15:00] and reducing tensions on all sides and

[15:03] hopefully ultimately although this is

[15:04] longer term bring about a resumption of

[15:07] discussions uh because that's the only

[15:10] way this is going to be resolved. Uh,

[15:13] battle after battle after battle will

[15:15] still leave the result unclear. And

[15:17] there has to be some way to reach an

[15:20] agreement to have a Palestinian state

[15:23] alongside a Jewish state which is secure

[15:26] and whose people feel safe.

[15:28] >> Ambassador Kirkpatrick, why is the

[15:30] United States opposed to a ceasefire?

[15:33] >> I don't think the United States is

[15:35] opposed to a ceasefire. We're only

[15:37] opposed to a ceasefire that cannot hold.

[15:40] And I believe we will continue to be

[15:41] opposed to a ceasefire that cannot hold.

[15:44] We want a solution that may be a

[15:46] solution. In fact,

[15:48] >> how do you know if something's going to

[15:49] hold until you try it?

[15:52] >> Well, you don't. But you judge by all of

[15:54] your experience, and we've had a lot of

[15:56] it in this area. When you know when I

[15:58] entered the Reagan administration in

[16:00] 1981, the situation in southern Lebanon

[16:03] was not unlike the situation today. It

[16:07] was resem it was similar in a good many

[16:10] respects and there there were good many

[16:12] Israelis seeking simply to survive

[16:17] Lebanese kushes which were falling

[16:21] rapidly.

[16:24] What we the the George, how do you

[16:26] respond to the U statement by the

[16:29] secretary who said what we're seeing

[16:31] here is the birth pangs of a new Middle

[16:33] East. You see that?

[16:37] >> I think that's uh probably a little

[16:39] hyperbole. Uh Larry, uh it's a very

[16:42] difficult situation one in which I think

[16:45] there are major changes occurring.

[16:48] Unfortunately, uh many of them are not

[16:50] for the better. uh at least from our

[16:53] perspective and I think that what you're

[16:55] seeing is a confluence of several

[16:57] conflicts here, Israelis and

[16:59] Palestinians,

[17:01] Sunni and Shia within the Muslim world.

[17:04] a continuing conflict that does not

[17:06] receive I believe sufficient attention

[17:09] in the west uh in terms of its potential

[17:12] for reshaping the area and a major

[17:14] factor in the current crisis as the

[17:16] Iranian government uh a Shia dominated

[17:19] government provides assistance to the

[17:21] Shia group Hezbollah in Lebanon. So

[17:24] there are several conflicts going on. Uh

[17:26] it it may be new and there may be

[17:28] developments but uh many of them are not

[17:31] going the way we'd like them to go. More

[17:33] with Ambassador Kirk Patrick and George

[17:35] Mitchell on this edition of Larry King

[17:36] Live. Big Nev Brashinski still to come.

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[20:12] >> The latest on the M East conflict the

[20:14] world is watching. Larry King, CNN 9

[20:16] Eastern.

[20:23] We're back with Ambassador Gene

[20:24] Kirkpatre and former Senate Majority

[20:26] Leader George Mitchell. Is there a point

[20:28] u Ambassador Kirkpatre where the United

[20:31] States backing of Israel could be

[20:33] counterproductive where it threatens our

[20:36] interests or our security to be aligned

[20:38] with one nation there?

[20:40] >> I do not think that point has been

[20:42] reached and is likely to be reached

[20:44] frankly be we don't support Israel for

[20:47] any such reason. We support Israel

[20:48] because it is a a loyal ally and with

[20:51] whom we share some fundamental interests

[20:54] and I those factors I think will not

[20:56] change.

[20:58] Not in the foreseeable future in any

[20:59] case.

[21:00] >> Senator Mitchell, should the

[21:01] administration talk to Iran and Syria?

[21:06] >> Well, I think there certainly should,

[21:07] Larry, directly or indirectly. Uh I

[21:11] don't think the interests of Iran and

[21:13] Syria are identical in all respects. And

[21:16] you recall last week uh a week ago I

[21:19] said that we should be approaching Syria

[21:21] even indirectly because they're much

[21:23] more exposed than Iran getting much less

[21:25] out of this and being much more exposed

[21:29] as a result of this conflict. And I I

[21:31] would be amazed if we weren't making

[21:33] some approaches at least indirectly.

[21:35] There are plenty of interlocutors others

[21:38] through whom we can make such

[21:40] approaches. and and I I'm certain at

[21:43] least I believe that must be happening

[21:45] now if the administration is on the ball

[21:48] as I hope they are in that respect.

[21:50] >> Ambassador Kirkpatrick, the New York

[21:51] Times reports today that many Iranians

[21:53] are not happy with the government's

[21:55] patronage of Hezbollah. Could Iranian

[21:58] public opinion change things there?

[22:01] >> Well, it could change things, but I

[22:02] doubt if it will, frankly, because

[22:04] Iranian public opinion is simply not

[22:06] that powerful.

[22:08] At least it's demonstrated so far. And I

[22:11] you know not as we anticipate in the

[22:13] near future.

[22:15] >> Uh this again for you madam kickpatrick.

[22:17] What confidence do you have in the UN

[22:21] but I look I don't think the UN or the

[22:23] US or the UN in the US or any

[22:26] combination of the countries that are

[22:27] assembled here can solve this problem.

[22:30] This is a very difficult problem and

[22:32] it's very important and the lives of

[22:35] many people are at stake here.

[22:38] Senator Mitchell, could an international

[22:40] peacekeeping force work?

[22:43] >> Yes, it could, Larry, under the right

[22:44] circumstances. It would depend upon the

[22:46] composition, the mandate, uh the

[22:49] leadership, the receptivity of both

[22:51] sides. There are reports in the recent

[22:53] days that the Israelis are looking favor

[22:56] would look favorably upon it in the

[22:58] right circumstances, as I believe many

[23:01] Lebanese would in the right

[23:02] circumstances, but uh that all has to be

[23:05] worked out. I do think this is soluble.

[23:08] I think it requires strong and

[23:11] persevering American leadership and

[23:13] assistance by others. Most notably,

[23:16] Russia can play a crucial role here if

[23:18] it chooses to do so, if it can be

[23:20] persuaded by the president and our

[23:22] administration, and many others can be

[23:24] of help as well. The French have a long

[23:26] history uh in Lebanon and worked with

[23:29] the United States in that area back a

[23:32] couple of years ago uh or back recently

[23:34] when Syria withdrew.

[23:36] Ambassador Kirk Patrick, what impact

[23:38] does uh United States involvement in

[23:40] Iraq have on options in the current

[23:43] crisis?

[23:44] >> I think it has very limited impact.

[23:46] Frankly, I I believe that the United

[23:48] States involvement in Iraq has limited,

[23:53] you know, consequences for the US

[23:56] involvement in

[23:59] Syria, for example, and in all the other

[24:03] countries in the area. You know, this is

[24:06] an extremely complicated context in

[24:09] which we are operating today. more

[24:11] complex than I have ever seen the Middle

[24:13] East. Let me say, Larry,

[24:15] >> h what about Secretary Senator Mitchell?

[24:18] >> If Well, I do think our involvement in

[24:21] Iraq has had one major effect. It's

[24:23] greatly benefited Iran. Uh because Iraq

[24:27] was a counterweight to Iran for a long

[24:30] time. They fought a bitter 8-year war in

[24:32] which hundreds of thousands were killed.

[24:34] We as the United States assisted Iraq

[24:36] during that conflict because uh we were

[24:39] concerned about Iranian expansion of the

[24:40] south. Now that huge counterweight has

[24:43] been removed and Iraq's desire to extend

[24:47] its influence to the Persian Gulf region

[24:49] has alarmed many of the Arab governments

[24:52] in the region, the Gulf Arabs who are

[24:54] most all Sunni government dominated. and

[24:57] they see a Shiagoed Iraq now Iran now

[25:03] with an Iraq that is no longer hostile

[25:05] to them but in fact will be relatively

[25:07] close to them. Many of the leaders in

[25:08] Iraq now really placed there as a result

[25:11] of the United States action uh spent

[25:14] time in Iran during the Saddam Hussein

[25:17] era. So, one major effect, not not to

[25:20] mention, of course, the uh the the

[25:23] debilitating uh result of on America's

[25:25] standing in the world and in the region,

[25:28] has been to pave the way for greater

[25:31] Iranian influence in the Persian Gulf.

[25:34] >> Thank you both very much. Ambassador

[25:35] Gene Kirkpatrick, former US ambassador

[25:37] to the UN, senior fellow at the American

[25:39] Enterprise Institute, and George

[25:40] Mitchell, former Senate Majority Leader,

[25:42] international peace negotiator. When we

[25:45] come back, we'll round it up with our

[25:46] correspondents and then meets Big Neb

[25:48] Brjinski. You're watching a Sunday night

[25:50] edition of Larry King Live. Don't go

[25:51] away.

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[27:57] >> What's it like to be our guest? It's a

[28:00] family getaway with all the comforts of

[28:03] home. It's a breakfast that's always

[28:05] free. But most of all, it's feeling like

[28:07] you're a guest in our home. Country Ins

[28:10] and Sweets by Carlson. Be our guest. AC

[28:13] 360. Every week night from 10 to

[28:15] midnight, the only place for national

[28:17] and international news. While others

[28:19] talk, CNN's Anderson Cooper takes you to

[28:22] the front lines for the story firsthand.

[28:24] AC 360 CNN Monday night, 10 Eastern.

[28:37] We're back. Let's get some highlights.

[28:38] US Secretary of State Condisa Rice heads

[28:41] to the Middle East. Rice will meet with

[28:43] Israeli Prime Minister Mayor and that's

[28:45] in Jerusalem and Palestinian President

[28:47] Abbas in the West Bank. Israeli air

[28:50] strikes have hit Beirut, plus targets in

[28:52] East and South Lebanon. More Hisbala

[28:54] rockets are slamming northern Israeli

[28:56] towns. Israel says it would accept an

[28:59] international peacekeeping force in

[29:01] Lebanon, preferably headed by NATO, and

[29:04] top Saudi envoys urge President Bush to

[29:07] press Israel for a ceasefire. And Syria

[29:10] calls for an immediate ceasefire and

[29:12] says it's willing to engage in direct

[29:14] talks with the United States. And a

[29:17] hospital spokesman says that Komaos

[29:19] former presi

[29:21] prime minister Ariel Chiron has taken a

[29:24] turn for the worse. So let's ask

[29:26] Christian Amanpor. If Chiron dies, what

[29:29] effect might that have, if any, on this

[29:31] situation?

[29:34] >> Well, I don't think any I mean I think

[29:36] it will have some nostalgic effect for

[29:38] his uh supporters. And probably history

[29:41] will recall the irony that if he dies

[29:43] now in the middle of what's being called

[29:45] Lebanon 2, it was after all Chiron who

[29:48] took Israel into its ill- fated

[29:50] experience in Lebanon in the early 80s

[29:53] in 1982. But I think, you know, you'll

[29:55] have the the the requisite obits, the

[29:58] the talk, the analysis about him, but I

[30:00] don't think at all it'll it'll it'll um

[30:03] it'll affect the ground campaign or the

[30:05] air war.

[30:06] >> Anderson Cooper, what do you make of the

[30:08] kind of acceptance by Israel for an

[30:10] international peacekeeping force under

[30:12] NATO?

[30:14] >> Uh well, you know, Larry, there's a lot

[30:15] of skepticism about the United Nations.

[30:18] Uh certainly on the part of Israel,

[30:19] there is a UN force in southern Lebanon.

[30:22] They have been there for a number of

[30:23] years, but they're widely viewed as a

[30:26] failure certainly by many in Israel. Uh

[30:28] they have not stopped Hezbollah rockets

[30:30] from raining down on northern Israel. Uh

[30:32] I think that's why the emphasis is

[30:33] perhaps on a NATO force. Uh the US of

[30:36] course the um US representative to the

[30:40] United Nations over the weekend telling

[30:41] Wol Blitzer uh that it's very early days

[30:43] for the US to be considering a NATO

[30:45] force. It's sort of a new idea that they

[30:47] is one of the ideas they are

[30:48] considering. Uh but but I think

[30:50] certainly on the part of Israel, I could

[30:52] see why they would support that more

[30:54] than a a UN international force or UN

[30:56] helmeted force uh given their past

[30:58] experiences with the UN in southern

[31:00] Lebanon.

[31:01] >> John Roberts, why why why Hifa? Why are

[31:05] they hitting Hifa so hard?

[31:08] >> They're hitting Hifa so hard, Larry,

[31:10] because it's the third largest city here

[31:11] in Israel, home to some 300,000 people.

[31:14] It's 22 mi away from the border right

[31:17] along the coast here from areas further

[31:19] in land in Lebanon where some of those

[31:20] Hezbollah strongholds are. It's as much

[31:22] as 35 to 40 m away. And they're hitting

[31:24] Hifa just to prove that they can do it.

[31:26] And in addition to Hifa, they're also

[31:28] saying we can go beyond that as well.

[31:35] >> Okay, we lost John Roberts signal. We

[31:37] should get it back. Anderson, have you

[31:39] seen those rockets up close at all?

[31:43] Um, I have not seen uh the Well, on this

[31:46] side we don't have uh we don't have

[31:47] rockets when you were in high bombs.

[31:51] >> Uh yeah, I mean you I've been to to the

[31:53] blast sites certainly. I haven't seen

[31:55] the actual shrapnel of the rockets, but

[31:57] uh I spent more than a day chasing

[31:59] various rockets uh getting to the scene

[32:01] just moments after they had hit. Uh you

[32:03] know, it is a it is a you hate to say

[32:06] you get used to it because you never get

[32:07] used to it. that sound of that siren,

[32:09] uh, you know, you can see it on TV, but

[32:11] when you actually hear it, when you're

[32:12] there live, uh, it gets your heart

[32:15] racing. You really, you suddenly you're

[32:16] immobilized. You know, you don't know

[32:18] exactly where to run to. You don't know

[32:19] if you are running into a rocket. Uh, as

[32:22] you could be doing that as easily as you

[32:23] could be running from one, if you're out

[32:25] on the street, you you press yourself

[32:27] against the side of a building. Uh, and

[32:29] you just have to wait. And it is this

[32:30] very eerie wait uh, as you listen to the

[32:33] sirens die down, and then you just wait

[32:35] for the sound of the impact. You pray

[32:36] it's not close to you and of course you

[32:38] pray it's not close to anyone when they

[32:41] do hit. Uh often the rockets just fall

[32:42] into the sea. Uh but when you hear that

[32:45] impact uh sometimes the ground shakes,

[32:47] sometimes the windows shake. Uh it is a

[32:49] terrible feeling. Larry,

[32:51] >> thanks Anderson. Anderson Cooper at the

[32:53] top of the hour will host AC 360. John

[32:55] Roberts, we've made the connection

[32:57] again. What's it like? What is it like

[32:58] for you those rockets?

[33:01] Well, Larry, the air raid siren went off

[33:03] at 11 o'clock this morning. And as

[33:05] Anderson says, it it is a bit of an

[33:06] eerie feeling and the adrenaline does

[33:08] start pumping. Immediately, what happens

[33:09] is the camera crew runs to the window

[33:11] and takes a wide shot to see where the

[33:13] the missile is going to hit and you're

[33:15] looking out the window with them and

[33:16] then you suddenly say to yourself,

[33:18] should I be standing this close to the

[33:19] window? And then you decide, maybe I'll

[33:20] back into the room just a little bit.

[33:22] But uh you know as a as a journalist

[33:24] it's it's difficult to to run for cover

[33:26] because you have to cover the story and

[33:27] the only way to cover the story is to

[33:29] open your eyes and look at where the

[33:30] story is going.

[33:32] >> Christian Namur do you ever get you've

[33:34] done you've covered so much war and

[33:37] violence. Do you ever get used to it?

[33:42] uh you know, you don't get used to it

[33:43] and most particularly on this side,

[33:45] we've been we've been we've been hearing

[33:48] increasing questions raised to the

[33:50] military commanders because of the

[33:52] incredible civilian toll that's taking

[33:54] place, not just uh here, but also much

[33:58] much more so in Lebanon. And so, you

[34:01] know, you don't get used to this kind of

[34:02] thing because every time it happens,

[34:04] there's something shocking that makes

[34:06] you and keeps you still alert and keeps

[34:08] you asking the questions and keeps you,

[34:10] you know, keeping the pressure on those

[34:11] who are doing the briefing. For

[34:13] instance, this minibus that was blown up

[34:15] in southern Lebanon today. I mean, for

[34:17] days, we've been told by the uh Israeli

[34:19] forces that they've been trying to get

[34:21] the Lebanese out of those towns so they

[34:23] can quote act without civilian

[34:25] restrictions. Then this minibus tries to

[34:27] leave under these orders and gets hit

[34:29] from the air. And when we ask the

[34:31] military here, they, you know, they say

[34:32] sorry. They're trying to do their best

[34:34] not to do that, but sometimes they say

[34:36] they misidentify the enemy. And these

[34:38] are things that is very hard to get used

[34:40] to.

[34:41] >> Thank you all very much. Christian

[34:42] Amanpor, Anderson Cooper, and John

[34:44] Roberts. We'll take a break and when we

[34:46] come back, it's Big Nev Brinski, the

[34:49] former national security adviser to

[34:50] President Carter who helped broker the

[34:53] historic Camp David Accords, will give

[34:55] us his thoughts right after this.

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[37:03] >> All new Monday night at 8. Crisis in the

[37:05] Middle East, a sign of Armageddon. Some

[37:08] evangelical Christians think so and they

[37:10] are very excited about the end of the

[37:12] world. Their eye opening story Monday

[37:14] night 8 Eastern.

[37:18] The Middle East erupts and CNN is right

[37:21] there on the ground with the story

[37:23] firsthand.

[37:24] >> Israel says it'll take at least another

[37:26] several days to finally make its point.

[37:28] >> Essential reporting from CNN, the most

[37:31] trusted name in news.

[37:37] It's great to see him again. It's Big

[37:38] Need Binsky, national security adviser

[37:40] to President Carter. His viewpoint

[37:43] piece, Time for Real Diplomacy, is on

[37:45] time.com. That's timemagazine.com.

[37:49] Is big. How's the uh how's the

[37:51] secretary's trip going to work?

[37:54] >> It depends almost entirely in how

[37:56] serious an undertaking she's going to

[37:57] pursue if she's just going there to

[38:01] reassure the Israelis, but then

[38:03] essentially to wait until they clean up

[38:05] southern Lebanon, destroy the Hezbollah,

[38:08] it will take time. It'll be bloody. The

[38:12] Israelis will not get their prisoners

[38:13] back. The Lebanese will suffer more.

[38:16] Eventually, we'll cut a deal with the

[38:18] Israelis about the Israelis evacuating

[38:21] than southern Lebanon and some sort of a

[38:23] NATO force will be put in.

[38:25] >> But the fighting, the hostility will be

[38:27] costly and the animous will be enormous.

[38:30] The other alternative is for her to be

[38:32] seriously engaged and that's a much

[38:33] tougher undertaking.

[38:35] >> Is the United States right to uh forego

[38:38] a ceasefire at this point? Well, that's

[38:40] the whole point. That's the kind of

[38:41] choice you're making. I have outlined

[38:43] one choice. The other choice is to talk

[38:45] to all of the parties concerned to see

[38:48] if a ceasefire can be contrived. If that

[38:51] ceasefire is accompanied then by an

[38:53] arrangement by which the prisoners are

[38:55] exchanged, not simultaneously but

[38:58] sequentially. The Israelis released

[38:59] first, then the Hezbollah prisoners,

[39:02] then some Palestinian prisoners, and a

[39:04] peace process then is initiated more

[39:06] actively by the United States. That's

[39:09] the second choice, but that requires her

[39:11] to be in the region longer and to talk

[39:13] to everyone and to stick with it.

[39:16] >> How long uh can or should Israel keep up

[39:19] this attack on Hezbollah?

[39:22] >> Well, that precisely depends on what the

[39:24] strategy is. If the strategy is to

[39:27] destroy Hezbollah, then in addition just

[39:30] to bombing the Lebanese, the Israelis

[39:32] will have to go in and clean out the

[39:34] Hezbollah. But that will be costly. It

[39:36] will involve serious casualties and I

[39:39] don't think the Hezbollah will

[39:40] surrender. It may fade away and be

[39:42] destroyed, but the prisoners won't come

[39:45] back and many more enemies will have

[39:47] been made.

[39:48] >> There's no doubt Syria and Iran are

[39:51] players. Should should the United States

[39:53] be talking to them?

[39:54] >> Absolutely. You always talk to your

[39:56] opponent unless you want to fight your

[39:58] opponent. We talked to the vile North

[40:00] Koreans, for example, in the 50s. It's

[40:03] not because we like them, but because it

[40:05] was better to talk to them than just to

[40:07] fight them forever.

[40:09] >> So why? So the obvious then is why not

[40:12] talk to them?

[40:13] >> Well, precisely. Now, we don't have to

[40:15] talk to them directly in every instance.

[40:17] There are sometimes ways of talking

[40:18] indirectly, but it seems to me that for

[40:21] example, the Syrians are worth talking

[40:22] to. We forced the Syrians to leave

[40:26] Lebanon. I hate to say this, but I can't

[40:29] help wondering if we hadn't forced the

[40:32] Syrians out, would the Hezbollah done

[40:35] what it did? Because then the Syrians

[40:38] would have been responsible for what

[40:39] Hezbollah did and the Syrians would have

[40:41] kept the Hezbollah under their thumbs.

[40:45] >> What role or hindrance, if any, does the

[40:48] war in Iraq play on this? It's a serious

[40:51] hindrance because the war in Iraq has

[40:53] gravely damaged American political

[40:57] credibility and also American military

[41:00] prowess. We just are not quite as tall

[41:03] as we were before we went into Iraq.

[41:07] >> How how big can this gets big?

[41:10] >> I don't think it's going to get too big

[41:12] at this stage. The problem is different.

[41:14] I think what we're witnessing is the

[41:17] transformation of the periodic wars

[41:20] between Israel and its neighbors which

[41:22] Israel has been winning consistently

[41:25] into a kind of protracted asymmetrical

[41:28] warfare which nibbles away which

[41:30] involves continuous pain then periods of

[41:33] quiesence then renewed pain and the

[41:36] number of enemies grows and grows and

[41:38] grows and this is why I am so convinced

[41:41] that it is absolutely in the interest of

[41:44] the United States in the Middle East and

[41:46] in the interests of Israel for the

[41:48] United States to be much more seriously

[41:50] engaged in pushing for a comprehensive

[41:52] peace accommodation.

[41:54] >> Do you think Hezbollah knew how Israel

[41:56] would react to the taking of the

[41:57] soldiers?

[41:58] >> Probably they anticipated some reaction.

[42:01] They didn't anticipate it would be such

[42:03] a strong reaction. But to the extent

[42:05] that the strong reaction has been

[42:07] directed rather indiscriminately at the

[42:09] Lebanese, more and more Lebanese are now

[42:11] going to be sympathetic to Hezbollah and

[42:15] hostile to Israel.

[42:17] >> So why do you think Israel did that?

[42:19] >> Probably because it didn't know what to

[42:21] do initially. It was certainly outraged.

[42:23] I suspect that the government is

[42:25] somewhat weak and wants to demonstrate

[42:27] that it is tough. Usually weak

[42:29] governments tend to overreact and I

[42:32] don't think the Israelis right now have

[42:34] any strategy other than hitting and

[42:36] hitting is not in itself a strategy is a

[42:39] tactic.

[42:40] >> How does this end?

[42:41] It'll percolate and it'll either end by

[42:44] the Israelis being forced to go into

[42:46] southern Lebanon cleaning out the

[42:48] Hezbollah but not resolving anything

[42:50] thereby or we eventually reluctantly

[42:53] getting engaged in a more serious

[42:55] negotiating effort and trying to

[42:57] contrive something that involves the

[42:58] Syrians then through the Syrians the

[43:01] Hezbollah but also doing something about

[43:03] Gaza and that problem because that keeps

[43:06] exploding and festering.

[43:08] >> You like the idea of a special envoy?

[43:10] No, a special envoy is not very

[43:13] effective. Special envoy is a one or two

[43:16] day effect, but then after that the

[43:18] parties concerned want to talk to the

[43:19] top people here. It has to be the

[43:21] secretary of state. And this is why I

[43:24] have said publicly and I'm sure that

[43:25] Condi doesn't like me for this she ought

[43:28] to do what Kissinger did. Stay there and

[43:30] work at it if necessary. Go to Damascus.

[43:33] Talk to go to Cairo. Talk to the

[43:36] Jordanians. Use the Syrians as

[43:38] intermediaries to talk to the Hezbollah.

[43:40] Stick with it and deliver.

[43:42] >> Thank you, Spig. We'll be calling on you

[43:44] again. It's great to see you.

[43:45] >> It's good to see you.

[43:47] >> It's Big Nev Bashinski, the former

[43:48] national security adviser to President

[43:50] Carter, who helped broker the Camp David

[43:52] Accords, his viewpoint piece, Time for

[43:54] Real Diplomacy. You can get it on

[43:56] time.com.

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[46:33] The latest on the M East conflict the

[46:34] world is watching. Larry King, CNN 9

[46:37] Eastern.

[46:42] We now welcome welcome Brigadier General

[46:44] James Spider Mars, United States Army

[46:46] retired CNN military analyst, former

[46:48] army intelligence offices in Washington.

[46:51] Uh General, the Israelis are determined

[46:53] to destroy the Kushia rockets that have

[46:55] rained down on them. How do they do

[46:57] that? And how complicated a job is it?

[46:59] >> Larry, it's a very complicated task. Uh

[47:01] but it can be done. Um, and what

[47:04] demonstrates the difficulty is that the

[47:06] Hezbollah fired 60 plus rockets into

[47:08] Israel today. This demonstrates the

[47:12] nature of finding and destroying these

[47:14] Kusha rockets and their launchers. Let

[47:16] me Larry, let me walk you through a

[47:18] scenario that we've set up for you here

[47:19] on the map.

[47:21] In southern Lebanon, for example, we

[47:24] have a Kusha rocket which is located

[47:26] here. Now, it's important to point out

[47:28] that at any given time over Lebanese

[47:31] airspace, you have unmanned aerial

[47:33] vehicles which have the ability to see

[47:35] the activity on the ground both day and

[47:37] night and broadcast TV quality video.

[47:41] They also have attack aircraft in

[47:43] prepared positions and artillery

[47:46] positions represented here ready to fire

[47:48] at a moment's notice. In this example,

[47:51] let's say the Kouta rocket fires before

[47:53] they can strike the launcher. the Kouta

[47:56] rocket fires, the unmanned aerial

[47:57] vehicle can pick up that launch

[47:59] immediately and then Larry

[48:01] instantaneously pass firing data both to

[48:04] the aircraft and the artillery. In this

[48:07] particular scenario, the aircraft is in

[48:09] a better position to attack the Kusha

[48:12] launcher. Understand the rocket's

[48:14] already underway, but the aircraft goes

[48:16] after the launcher as it tries to scoot

[48:18] and hide. If Israel can continue to

[48:22] strike launchers, you deny the

[48:24] capability of the rockets.

[48:26] >> John Roberts in Hifa, how are the

[48:28] ordinary the citizens of Israel coping

[48:31] with these rocket attacks?

[48:33] >> Surprisingly, Larry, they're coping very

[48:35] well. Every day when the rockets come in

[48:37] and and a home gets hit or a building

[48:39] gets hit or somebody gets hurt or

[48:41] somebody gets killed, obvious obviously

[48:42] there's a lot of concern in the

[48:44] immediate area, but they sort of pick

[48:45] themselves up and they go on. And uh

[48:47] this fellow that I met today, Zohar

[48:50] Borenstein, whose home was literally

[48:51] destroyed right before his very eyes, he

[48:54] was pretty pragmatic about the whole

[48:55] thing, saying, "Well, I'll have to get a

[48:56] new house and I'll have to build a new

[48:58] one, but for the meantime, I can move in

[48:59] with my family." So, while these are

[49:01] weapons of terror that are raining down

[49:04] on Israelis every day because they're

[49:05] not, you know, they don't hit any

[49:07] strategic targets. They're not good

[49:08] tactical weapons. It really is amazing

[49:10] the resilience with which the Israelis

[49:12] deal with these rocket attacks day in

[49:14] and day out.

[49:15] >> Thanks, John. General Israeli Israel's

[49:17] defense minister says this is not a

[49:19] full-scale invasion. How likely in your

[49:22] opinion is a full-scale invasion?

[49:25] >> Larry, there needs to be an increased

[49:27] number of soldiers, foot soldiers on the

[49:30] ground in some type of a buffer zone

[49:32] north of Israel in southern Lebanon in

[49:35] order to achieve the objectives that

[49:37] Israel has stated they want to achieve.

[49:39] Seems very likely that they're going to

[49:41] have to put more forces across the

[49:42] border.

[49:44] Is Hezbollah a tough opponent? It

[49:47] >> Larry, it's an extremely tough opponent.

[49:49] They have intimacy with the terrain.

[49:51] They live in that terrain. They fight in

[49:53] that terrain. They've had years to

[49:55] improve their fighting positions. They

[49:57] will try to dominate a fight. They are

[49:59] the defender. And the advantage always

[50:02] goes to the defender.

[50:03] >> But Israel has had a lot of experience

[50:06] in that territory too, haven't they?

[50:08] >> They really have, Larry. They Well, they

[50:10] were there for 18 years. They departed

[50:12] six years ago. But what's key is in that

[50:13] intervening six-year period, Hezblah has

[50:16] had plenty of time to establish

[50:18] barricades and obstacles and to make

[50:20] that fight on that ground that much

[50:22] tougher.

[50:24] >> Thank you very much. Uh, General

[50:25] Brigadier General James Spidermarks, CNN

[50:28] military analyst and John Roberts in

[50:30] Hifa. Coming up, you won't want to miss

[50:32] this. An incredible story of escape from

[50:34] the war zone with celebrity chief Tony

[50:37] Bourdain. He was shooting his TV show in

[50:39] Beirut, living the high life, fine

[50:41] dining, lounging by the pool when this

[50:44] crisis broke out and he had to evacuate

[50:46] like everyone else. We'll hear his story

[50:48] right after this.

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[53:31] Now joining us from New York is Tony

[53:33] Bourdain. He's the host of Anthony

[53:36] Bourdain. No reservations on the Travel

[53:38] Channel. He's the chef and bestselling

[53:39] author. You were in Beirut shooting an

[53:42] episode of your show. What happened?

[53:45] >> Uh well, I spent two really magical days

[53:49] meeting uh Beiruties uh all of whom were

[53:53] bursting with pride for a a sort of new

[53:55] resurgent uh relatively tolerant

[53:58] westernized uh Beirut. As it happened,

[54:02] uh we were standing outside of the

[54:03] Hariri Memorial. Um I was with a Sunni,

[54:07] a Shiite and a Christian at the time

[54:10] when we started to hear gunfire and see

[54:12] uh cars filled with Hezbollah supporters

[54:15] uh celebrating the uh the capture

[54:18] kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers. The

[54:21] look on the three faces of of my

[54:23] companions was one of of shame, uh

[54:27] embarrassment, dismay, and and a sort of

[54:30] resignation uh as they all seemed to

[54:33] immediately get what what inevitably was

[54:35] going to happen next.

[54:36] >> That's a great city, isn't it, Tony?

[54:38] >> It was a paradise. I'm I'm heartbroken

[54:41] uh that that I doubt we'll ever get to

[54:44] show the world what a hopeful uh place

[54:48] it was. uh how how proud, how tolerant,

[54:52] uh kind of a dream version of of what we

[54:54] would like the Middle East to be

[54:56] someday. were we to get our way. Uh

[54:59] sophisticated, largely uh

[55:01] English-speaking, uh friendly, uh food

[55:04] centric, u uh it it was for me, you

[55:08] know, two days of paradise followed by

[55:11] uh the heartbreak of watching all of

[55:13] these nice people uh many of whom were

[55:16] Lebanese Americans who'd returned uh to

[55:19] their homeland or Lebanese who who'd

[55:21] left during the civil war come back to

[55:23] try to make a better Beirut, a better

[55:25] Lebanon. thinking that this was a good

[55:27] time to do it. To watch all those hopes

[55:29] dismantled piece by piece before my eyes

[55:32] to it it it was a horrible thing to see.

[55:35] >> How'd you get out, Tony?

[55:36] >> Uh I left uh after quite a bit of

[55:40] waiting around and waking up to bombing

[55:42] and going to sleep to bombing every day

[55:44] for over a week on the USS uh Nashville.

[55:47] And I I have to say the the Marines and

[55:51] sailors of that uh ship who were called

[55:53] on to to help with the evacuation at the

[55:55] last minute were uh incredibly

[55:57] efficient. Uh one doesn't think of the

[56:00] word kind and and uh tender and

[56:04] sensitive when you think of the Marine

[56:05] Corps, but they were uh really

[56:07] incredible to the the people being

[56:09] evacuated.

[56:10] >> Did your crew continue to shoot?

[56:13] We shot what we could, but I think there

[56:15] was a real sense right away that, you

[56:17] know, we make a travel and food show,

[56:19] exploring cultures through travel and

[56:21] food. I I I I

[56:24] we shot a lot of footage that I don't

[56:25] think we ever want to use. You know,

[56:27] what we went through in Beirut is

[56:30] nothing compared to what Beiruties

[56:32] themselves had to go through. Um, I I

[56:35] suppose we'll I don't know. I I really I

[56:38] don't know that we can use what what we

[56:40] we shot. Certainly some of the things I

[56:43] guess I'd like to show people uh what

[56:45] Beirut was like before and perhaps could

[56:47] be again in the future. Uh certainly um

[56:51] I'm I'm proud of uh what we what we

[56:53] filmed of uh of the Marines and sailors,

[56:56] >> but a lot of time spent of us just

[56:58] sitting around worrying about uh you

[57:00] know when are we getting out of here? I

[57:02] I don't know whether I'd feel good about

[57:04] hearing that.

[57:05] >> Hold on one second. I want to check with

[57:07] Daronia. Tony, are you there?

[57:10] Yo,

[57:11] >> Mr. Robertson, are you there?

[57:14] >> I am indeed. Larry,

[57:15] >> what can you tell us, Nick, about people

[57:18] getting out? I mean, Tony got out. He's

[57:20] back in New York. What else is happening

[57:21] there?

[57:24] >> Well, people are still getting out. The

[57:26] American Embassy here is really putting

[57:27] out a last pitch call to anyone that

[57:29] wants to leave the country. About 11 and

[57:31] a half thousand or so Americans have

[57:34] left, but it's the last call going out

[57:35] now. Um certainly people here are

[57:38] flooding up from the south of the

[57:39] country. Those that can can get out are

[57:42] still trying to get out know we know

[57:43] about 150,000 have left the country but

[57:46] a lot of people are trying to make the

[57:47] best of it here in Beirut. They've

[57:49] gotten out of the dangerous areas and

[57:51] they're trying to get on with their

[57:52] lives. I I think what we've seen

[57:54] transformed over the last week or so

[57:56] since the bombing began, we do see more

[57:58] people out on the streets in some

[58:00] neighborhoods. We do see more more

[58:02] stores open. A lot of the city is pretty

[58:05] much closed for business, but you can go

[58:07] up in the mountains and you can uh sit

[58:09] in a cafe and have a coffee and have an

[58:11] ice cream and look down at the shelling

[58:13] on Beirut. It's not a good situation,

[58:16] but in some places life is just sort of

[58:18] ticking over as best people can make it

[58:20] happen. Larry,

[58:21] >> thanks Nick. Nick Robertson, you've

[58:23] described Tony Bourdain the situation on

[58:25] the beach as like going to a Metallica

[58:28] concert gone horribly wrong. What do you

[58:31] mean? Well, I have to say that the

[58:32] embassy side of the operation was

[58:34] uninspiring. Uh it was uh one would

[58:38] expect better of any concert promoter or

[58:40] nightclub operator even on short notice.

[58:43] It was really pandemonium out there. Uh

[58:46] not didn't seem that anyone was in

[58:48] charge. Bad crowd control, people

[58:50] standing for hours and hours in the sun.

[58:53] Uh the second that we passed into Marine

[58:56] and and Navy control, everything

[58:59] changed. I mean it suddenly became

[59:02] efficient uh caring, fastm moving and

[59:04] organized. So the the the two operations

[59:07] uh I I have to say um uh

[59:11] >> night and day.

[59:11] >> Night and day.

[59:13] >> Would you go back, Tony?

[59:14] >> I I I would love to go back. I I I will

[59:17] I will. It is un great unfinished

[59:19] business with me that I I have yet to be

[59:22] able to show the world what what was

[59:23] possible in Beirut. how how good the

[59:26] food uh how nice the people I met how

[59:28] how hopeful a situation I I saw for only

[59:32] two brief days.