The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-07-22

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:06] Good evening. I'm Jim Lara in

[0:07] Washington. And I'm Robert McNeel in New

[0:10] York. After the news summary tonight,

[0:12] six followers of Ross Perau discuss

[0:14] their options. Now, correspondentwami

[0:17] Hullman reports on the resistance in

[0:18] Congress to cutting the National Guard.

[0:21] We have a report on the starvation in

[0:23] Somalia and hear from Kansas Senator

[0:25] Nancy Casab, who's just seen it

[0:27] firsthand.

[0:29] Funding for the McNeel NewsHour has been

[0:32] provided by PepsiCo.

[0:45] Mexico.

[0:48] >> Part of helping the world live and

[0:50] communicate better is keeping it well

[0:51] informed. That's why funding for the

[0:54] NewsHour is also provided by AT&T

[0:57] and by the Corporation for Public

[0:59] Broadcasting and viewers like you.

[1:03] >> President Bush today fended off

[1:04] suggestions that he was ready to dump

[1:06] Vice President Dan Quail. Rumors to that

[1:09] effect have been circulating for several

[1:11] weeks amid reports that the re-election

[1:13] campaign was in trouble. Mr. Bush was

[1:15] asked about it at the White House this

[1:17] morning before a meeting with Mr. Quail

[1:19] and cabinet members.

[1:22] >> Is the vice president's chair a little

[1:23] uncertain?

[1:24] >> No, it's very certain and I'm not going

[1:26] to take any questions here because we

[1:28] got an awful lot of work to do and uh

[1:30] hope you'll understand, Charles, but uh

[1:33] we're not going to take any more

[1:34] questions now. a lot of spec a lot of

[1:37] crazy rumors floating around, aren't

[1:38] there? But we're not going to take I'm

[1:40] not going to say anything about it. No,

[1:41] I'm just going to let you guys go into

[1:43] that feeding frenzy that you love and uh

[1:46] keep working on it and uh be sure you

[1:49] get good sources though cuz I read some

[1:51] that don't look pretty good. Don't look

[1:53] very good.

[1:55] >> Secretary of State Baker today responded

[1:57] to reports that he will leave his post

[1:59] to take charge of the Bush re-election

[2:01] effort. The New York Times reported

[2:03] Baker would make the move next month. He

[2:05] spoke at a news conference in Cairo

[2:07] after a meeting with President Mubarak.

[2:11] >> Well, my thinking is you ought not to

[2:13] believe everything you read in the

[2:14] paper. Uh there has been no decision

[2:17] made that I am in fact going off. Uh you

[2:20] see me actively involved here now in the

[2:22] peace process and I hope and believe

[2:24] that I will be actively involved in the

[2:25] peace peace process in the days uh and

[2:29] weeks ahead. So until there is a

[2:30] decision, I wouldn't jump to uh a lot of

[2:33] conclusions.

[2:35] >> White House spokesman Marlon Fitzwwater

[2:37] today lashed out at Democratic Vice

[2:39] Presidential candidate Al Gore.

[2:41] Fitzwwater called him Mr. Sellout

[2:43] America for not talking about economic

[2:45] growth. Fitzwwater said quote he spent a

[2:48] week in Rio saying the heck with the

[2:50] economy. Sell it out to the environment.

[2:52] Gore led a US delegation to the Earth

[2:54] Summit in Brazil last month. Bill

[2:56] Clinton said today Gore went to the

[2:58] summit because quote he didn't want

[3:00] America humiliated under George Bush's

[3:02] leadership or lack of leadership. The

[3:05] Clinton Gore bus tour ended today in St.

[3:08] Louis, Missouri. The two men and their

[3:10] wives had traveled more than a thousand

[3:12] miles since Friday, campaigning at

[3:14] factories, farms, and community

[3:16] gatherings in seven states. Jim, the

[3:19] United States threatened today to use

[3:21] military force against Iraq. White House

[3:23] spokesman Fitzwwater said Iraq must be

[3:25] held accountable for stonewalling United

[3:28] Nations inspectors trying to search an

[3:30] Iraqi government building in Baghdad.

[3:32] The inspectors broke off their 18-day

[3:35] vigil at that building today. UN

[3:37] officials said the decision was made

[3:39] after an Iraqi protester tried to stab

[3:42] an inspector. The officials blamed the

[3:44] Iraqi government for failing to provide

[3:46] adequate security for the inspectors.

[3:49] Iraq's UN ambassador said he regretted

[3:51] any harassment of the inspectors, but he

[3:53] denounced Security Council members for

[3:55] threatening to use force against his

[3:57] country. He spoke to reporters at the UN

[3:59] in New York. I believe such a threat or

[4:01] the use of force would undermine the

[4:03] authority of the council because I tell

[4:05] you, it's not going to change the Iraq

[4:06] position. I mean, throwing a bomb or two

[4:09] whether in Baghdad or here or there is

[4:11] not going to to change to the contrary,

[4:12] it shows that the council without the

[4:14] cooperation of the Iraq government

[4:16] cannot do much. And the best course

[4:18] really is for the council first to be

[4:20] sympathetic with Iraqi complaints about

[4:22] the sanction and the embargo against our

[4:24] oil as well as to secure the cooperation

[4:27] of the Iraq government. This is the only

[4:28] way to implement the resolution. As

[4:30] Robin reported earlier, Secretary of

[4:32] State Baker's visit to Cairo was for a

[4:34] meeting with Egyptian President Mubarak.

[4:36] Baker said his talks in Israel produced

[4:39] asurances of a severe and substantial

[4:41] cutback in Jewish settlements. Mubarak

[4:44] called that a good step forward for the

[4:46] peace process. From Cairo, Baker

[4:48] traveled to Syria where he was to meet

[4:50] with President Assad. The Navy announced

[4:53] a major reorganization today. It will

[4:56] cut about 150 uniformed and civilian

[4:59] jobs in its Washington headquarters. It

[5:01] also plans to eliminate 34 admiral slots

[5:04] and do away with the separate offices of

[5:06] submarine, surface, and air warfare.

[5:08] Acting Navy Secretary Shaun O'Keefe said

[5:11] he hoped to end the rivalries within the

[5:13] service. He said the move had no

[5:15] connection to the recent Tail Hook sex

[5:17] abuse scandal. General Electric today

[5:20] pleaded guilty to criminal charges of

[5:22] defrauding the US and Israeli

[5:24] governments. The company was accused of

[5:26] filing false claims in connection with

[5:28] the sales of military jet engines to

[5:30] Israel. Israel used US military aid for

[5:33] the purchases. GE agreed to pay fines

[5:36] totaling $69 million. There was more

[5:39] heavy fighting in Bosnia today. 50

[5:41] people were reported killed in the

[5:43] eastern Bosnian town of Gorazda.

[5:46] Hundreds of Serbian mortar and tank

[5:48] shells fell on the city, which is the

[5:50] last Muslim holdout in the region. The

[5:52] UN peacekeeping force came under direct

[5:55] attack in the Bosnian capital. Simon

[5:57] Cole of Independent Television News

[5:59] reports from Sieo.

[6:02] As if things aren't bad enough here,

[6:04] there are now signs of increasing

[6:05] tension between the UN forces and the

[6:07] Bosnian government.

[6:10] The local army has set up mortars next

[6:12] to this UN camp, which have drawn enemy

[6:14] fire from the hills. The peacekeepers

[6:16] have come under attack in the process

[6:18] and want the mortars moved. It's all

[6:20] very frustrating for the man who says

[6:22] the UN is the thin thread holding things

[6:24] together here. I have mood swings that

[6:26] are as dramatic as anybody on my staff.

[6:29] And I've gone through periods of

[6:30] despair. Absolutely. One of them was

[6:32] about 2:30 yesterday morning when my

[6:33] troops were being shelled for absolutely

[6:35] no reason other than to be here to try

[6:37] and keep the peace. And they're over

[6:38] there sitting in their bunkers having

[6:40] their equipment destroyed. That's really

[6:42] pisses you off to tell you the truth.

[6:44] But the fact of the matter is you then

[6:45] have to jump back and look at the

[6:47] positive aspects. And the positive

[6:48] aspects is we're bringing some food in

[6:51] and we're bringing medicine in and

[6:53] nobody's saying thank you.

[6:56] >> One of his relief convoys finally

[6:58] reached the belleaguered suburb of

[6:59] Griabitza today. The snipers rifles

[7:02] remain silent as much needed food and

[7:04] supplies were distributed. And if

[7:06] General McKenzie is in any doubt, hungry

[7:08] people here are grateful. The UN

[7:11] Secretary General has rejected a plan

[7:13] for UN peacekeepers to take control of

[7:16] the waring sides heavy weapons. Butress

[7:19] Bus Gali said the UN force in Bosnia is

[7:22] already stretched to the limit. Leftist

[7:24] rebels in Peru's capital, Lima, today

[7:27] launched a wave of violence to enforce a

[7:29] call for a two-day general strike. The

[7:31] so-called Shining Path rebels killed a

[7:34] taxi driver and set fire to his car.

[7:36] They also bombed a school for the

[7:38] children of military officers. A rebel

[7:40] carbon last night destroyed the Bolivian

[7:43] embassy and wounded six passers by. At

[7:45] least 25,000 Peruvians have died in

[7:48] political violence since 1980 when the

[7:50] Shining Path took up arms against the

[7:52] government in Lima. Colombian drug boss

[7:56] Pablo Escobar may have escaped today.

[7:58] Government troops stormed Escobar's

[8:00] prison after he and several of his

[8:02] lieutenants turned guns on prison

[8:04] guards. At least two people were killed

[8:06] and four injured in the battle. The

[8:08] president of Colombia's Senate said the

[8:10] army had taken control of the prison,

[8:12] but Escobar and his cohorts could not be

[8:14] found. The government had been trying to

[8:16] move the Escobar group to a military

[8:18] prison with tighter security. It said

[8:20] the group had continued to direct

[8:22] kidnappings, torture, and other crimes

[8:24] from the ranch site where they were

[8:25] being held.

[8:27] >> And that's it for the news summary

[8:28] tonight. Now it's on to the Perau

[8:30] people, the National Guard, and the

[8:33] famine in Somalia.

[8:44] It was 6 days ago that Ross Perau went

[8:47] away, announcing he would not run as an

[8:49] independent candidate for president

[8:51] after all. His decision stunned

[8:53] everybody, but none more so than the

[8:55] thousands of volunteers who had gone to

[8:58] work for his shakeup Washington cause.

[9:00] The outstanding question is, what

[9:02] happens now to those people and their

[9:04] cause? Do they go for Clinton Gore, Bush

[9:07] Quail, or go back to none of the above?

[9:10] The answers say the experts could decide

[9:12] the outcome of this election. With that

[9:14] in mind, we asked six of those expero

[9:17] activists to join us tonight. They are

[9:19] Merrick Okamoto who headed the Orange

[9:21] County California parole effort. Carrie

[9:24] Camck Kramck who did the same in Denver

[9:27] County, Colorado. Joanne Vincent the

[9:30] coordinator in Maryland. David

[9:32] Charlesson the Illinois chairman. Frank

[9:35] Luntz who was director of the search for

[9:37] the national parole committee in Dallas

[9:39] and Joe McCutchen an avid Perau

[9:41] supporter and a political newsletter

[9:43] editor and talk show host in Georgia.

[9:46] Beginning with you Mr. from McCutchen in

[9:48] Atlanta. Is it Bush Putin or something

[9:50] else for you?

[9:51] >> Uh Jim, it's going to be President Bush.

[9:54] I think that President Bush, in fact,

[9:55] we've invited him down to my hometown in

[9:57] LJ to energize a lot of us in North

[10:00] Georgia and hope he'll come. We've we've

[10:01] extended to him the invitation, but I

[10:03] believe the Bush administration would

[10:05] mean less government, less taxes than a

[10:06] Clinton administration.

[10:07] >> Were you a Bush supporter before you

[10:10] were a Perau supporter, or is this a new

[10:11] thing? Is this a born again thing? I

[10:13] voted for President Bush in 1988, but

[10:16] then I went with Pat Buchanan and then

[10:18] Perau. And now I will be with President

[10:20] Bush because I really believe that Bill

[10:23] Clinton and Al Gore are two fine men,

[10:25] very attractive men, but I think their

[10:26] administration will mean more

[10:28] government, more taxes. Senator Gore has

[10:30] one of the most liberal voting records

[10:32] in the United States Senate. I think his

[10:33] ACU record is something like 11. Uh but

[10:36] I I will stick with President Bush.

[10:38] >> All right, Mr. Charleston in Chicago,

[10:40] what are you going to do?

[10:41] I'm going to support uh Governor Clinton

[10:44] and Senator Gore. U I firmly believe

[10:47] that uh that they represent the second

[10:49] best choice we possibly could have for

[10:51] change. Uh I joined the Perau campaign

[10:55] and became chairman because I saw Mr.

[10:57] Perau as a change agent. Uh certainly

[10:59] with him dropping out now and the

[11:01] Democratic uh party really being

[11:04] revitalized as uh as Mr. Ro said, I

[11:07] think they certainly have the message

[11:09] and Governor Clinton and Senator Gore

[11:11] represent to me the change that this

[11:13] country needs. We've had 12 years of of

[11:16] President Reagan and President Bush. And

[11:19] if President Bush continues to run on

[11:21] his record, quite frankly, what I've

[11:22] seen, I just can't simply uh uh uh speak

[11:26] to the fact that the man can possibly be

[11:28] successful over the next four years in

[11:30] fixing the problems this country has.

[11:31] What were you, if anything, before you

[11:34] were a Perau supporter politically?

[11:36] >> Um, I voted for Michael Dukakus in 19 uh

[11:39] 1988.

[11:41] Uh, primarily because I didn't uh see

[11:44] President Bush as an option at that

[11:46] point in time, but I think my vote for

[11:47] Michael Dakus was against President Bush

[11:50] as as opposed to a vote for Michael

[11:52] Dukakus. Uh, certainly I'm a registered

[11:54] Democrat. I live in Illinois and Chicago

[11:57] is my hometown. All right, Miss Kremlin,

[11:59] in uh in Denver, have you made a

[12:01] decision yet?

[12:02] >> No, I don't really feel capable at this

[12:04] point in time of doing that. I um voted

[12:07] for President Bush in 1988, but I don't

[12:09] feel that I'm able to do that unless

[12:11] there's a difference in his position on

[12:13] choice. Uh and as far as

[12:16] >> on the abortion issue,

[12:17] >> yes, that's correct. Unless that

[12:19] position changes, I just don't feel

[12:20] that's an option for me at all or any

[12:23] woman in her right mind. Uh

[12:25] >> what drew you to Perau? Was it because

[12:27] of Perau himself or because of his

[12:29] message, the message of change as Mr.

[12:32] Charleston just said?

[12:33] >> Well, I had followed Perau's career for

[12:36] some time and was interested in him as a

[12:37] person. But I think his message, his

[12:39] tough talk, what the supporters really

[12:41] wanted to see was tough talk, somebody

[12:44] that wasn't going to tell them fairy

[12:46] tales, just anything to get their vote.

[12:49] And I don't think we're seeing that from

[12:51] any of the present candidates. And

[12:53] particularly with uh Mr. Clinton, I

[12:55] think we're seeing exactly

[12:58] he he's telling us exactly what we want

[12:59] to hear in order to get his our votes.

[13:01] >> Is is doing nothing politically an

[13:04] option for you now? In other words, just

[13:05] to go back to doing what you were doing

[13:07] before.

[13:07] >> That that thought absolutely terrorizes

[13:10] me. I have never uh not voted in a

[13:12] presidential election. So, I am going to

[13:14] be open-minded as we proceed toward

[13:16] November. Uh I don't want to waste my

[13:18] vote. If Perau was on the ballot in

[13:20] Colorado at that time, I may cast it for

[13:22] him as a protest vote, but I don't

[13:24] really like that option. I really want

[13:26] my vote to count. So, I'm trying to be

[13:28] open-minded.

[13:28] >> All right, Miss Vincent, how what would

[13:31] you describe your state of mind right

[13:32] now?

[13:33] >> Well, at this uh time, I am still

[13:35] grateful to Ross Perau because I think

[13:37] he has galvanized hundreds of thousands

[13:39] of people in this country to get

[13:41] involved in politics this year and I

[13:43] think that we are going to be able to

[13:45] focus on the issues. He is supposed to

[13:47] release his economic plan on Monday and

[13:50] I would hope that the other plans will

[13:51] also be released and that we can get all

[13:53] of the candidates to address these

[13:55] issues. We have got to do something you

[13:57] know about the hemorrhaging of our

[13:58] economy. We have got to do the things

[14:00] that he talked about about creating

[14:01] jobs, expanding the tax base. I think

[14:04] that we have all gained so much for his

[14:07] having been in the race.

[14:08] >> But where what are you going to do

[14:10] >> at this point in time? I will probably

[14:12] vote for Ross Perau. He is going to be

[14:14] on the ballot in all 50 states. I don't

[14:16] have any doubt about that. So,

[14:18] >> and what would be the point?

[14:19] >> Well, because the thought that that

[14:21] people will be voting for him. You know,

[14:23] it really gives us a lot of leverage. I

[14:25] think that people will be listening to

[14:27] the people that were Perau supporters

[14:28] and still are Perau supporters.

[14:30] >> So, you're not you're not even thinking

[14:33] about Clinton Gore Bush Quail.

[14:35] >> Not at this point in time, although I

[14:36] certainly would like to hear what they

[14:37] have to say. I mean, I think that in a

[14:39] sense it's a brilliant plan to have all

[14:41] of the the people that were involved in

[14:43] this movement continue to be involved so

[14:45] that we can go out and get answers from

[14:47] candidates, also register people to

[14:49] vote. Who knows what will happen in

[14:50] September and October?

[14:51] >> What were you before? What were you

[14:53] doing?

[14:53] >> In uh 1988, I voted for President Bush

[14:56] and in this year I ran as a Bob Kerry

[14:58] delegate in the state of Maryland.

[15:00] >> You consider yourself a Democrat

[15:01] >> generally? Yes.

[15:02] >> I see. Okay. Mr. Okamoto in California.

[15:05] >> Yes. What uh what is your uh state of

[15:08] mind as we speak?

[15:10] >> Well, at this point in time, I'm I'm

[15:11] still not ready to uh cast a vote for

[15:13] one party or the other. Uh they seem to

[15:15] be coming out of the woodworks offering

[15:17] uh suggestions that they will uh do

[15:20] whatever is necessary to get the Perau

[15:21] vote. Uh I somehow think that's a little

[15:24] bit insulting to all of the Perau

[15:25] supporters that what we stood for could

[15:27] immediately we can flip flop to one

[15:29] candidate or the other. I still am of

[15:31] the opinion we must wait until we have

[15:33] an opportunity to put forward a platform

[15:35] from the people. This is now in the

[15:38] people's hands. This movement was more

[15:40] important than just the man Ross Perau.

[15:42] This movement was not focused on enough

[15:44] in my opinion about the people and what

[15:46] this stood for. There's a huge group of

[15:48] people disenfranchised in this country

[15:50] that are looking for leadership and

[15:52] people who are willing to make the tough

[15:54] decisions. Do you believe that? In other

[15:56] words, do you believe that this Perau

[15:58] volunteer group can be held together as

[16:00] an organization and as a force in and of

[16:02] itself?

[16:03] >> Yes, I think it can. Uh these people and

[16:06] the bonds that have been uh that have

[16:08] happened over the past 4 and 1/2 months,

[16:10] these people have worked 7 days a week

[16:11] together, 18 hours a day, uh elbow to

[16:14] elbow, all as volunteers working for one

[16:16] thing, for change. those people, I

[16:19] believe, uh, at least my constituents,

[16:21] the people I represent in Southern

[16:23] California that I've worked with, all

[16:24] want to stay together. Uh, they are now,

[16:27] >> what how would they stay together? What

[16:28] would they do? Would they support

[16:30] candidates? Would they raise hell? What

[16:31] would they do?

[16:32] >> Well, absolutely, they will all stay

[16:34] together. Uh, there's a platform that

[16:36] we've uh begun down here called Owners

[16:38] of America. And all we are trying to do

[16:40] is offer leadership rather than follow.

[16:42] uh if we wait a week or two or three or

[16:45] four for something to happen uh that's

[16:47] lost time. This organization is designed

[16:49] to pull as many of the Perau supporters

[16:52] uh locally, statewide, as well as

[16:54] nationally into one cohesive group. And

[16:56] then we will ask our constituents to

[16:58] look at the platform we put forward and

[17:00] tell us specifically what they want to

[17:02] do about each one of these issues.

[17:03] >> But I mean a platform to do what? I mean

[17:06] without a candidate, what's the what's

[17:08] the end result? Well, this will then

[17:10] move to a local level, your local

[17:12] constituent, a local congressman, the

[17:14] senator for your state. We can put forth

[17:16] the platform, for example, that Ross

[17:18] Perau has developed. He brought together

[17:20] some of the greatest minds in this

[17:21] country who had no political acts to

[17:23] grind whatsoever, whether Democrat or

[17:25] Republican. They only wanted to help

[17:27] this country. And that's what I see in

[17:29] most of the Perau volunteers.

[17:32] >> All right. I was just going to Mr. LZ

[17:34] was one of those. He's in Dallas and you

[17:36] came to the national uh committee, Mr.

[17:38] Lunt. What do you think of what Mr.

[17:40] Okamoto is talking about? Is that

[17:42] realistic?

[17:43] >> It is realistic because Rosboro brought

[17:46] into the process somewhere in the

[17:48] neighborhood of about 5 million people

[17:50] that had not been involved that had

[17:52] opted out in the past. People that had

[17:54] been uh uh registered to vote but had

[17:56] not been voting since perhaps ' 84. And

[17:59] it's a matter of they want someplace to

[18:02] go. They want change. They want

[18:03] fundamental change economically,

[18:05] political reform-wise, in the whole

[18:07] system of government. And by continuing

[18:10] in the process, by by not dumping out

[18:13] right now, this gives them an

[18:14] opportunity to continue to be heard and

[18:16] perhaps to have an impact not just on

[18:18] the presidential level, but on the more

[18:20] local level as well.

[18:21] >> What about you personally? What are you

[18:22] thinking about doing? Well, I've been a

[18:24] lifelong Republican and a very proud

[18:26] one, and it was very difficult for me to

[18:29] opt out of the Republican presidential

[18:31] campaign, but I needed change myself.

[18:34] I'm a professor and I owed something to

[18:35] my students and I wanted to give

[18:37] something back. And even reflecting now,

[18:39] and it's this did not end the way I

[18:41] wanted it to, but I'm proud of what I

[18:43] did and I'd like to continue and I hope

[18:45] that the volunteers do stay together.

[18:48] And I could see myself uh voting for any

[18:50] of the three candidates. So, I'm going

[18:51] to wait and see. What are you waiting to

[18:53] see? I mean, what is it you want to hear

[18:55] from them that you have not heard up to

[18:56] this point?

[18:57] >> I want to go to the Republican

[18:59] convention and I want to hear the

[19:00] changes that George Bush will make to

[19:02] the system. What he's going to do

[19:03] specifically in the next four years on

[19:05] economic policy, foreign policy, and how

[19:08] this country will be different 2 or 4

[19:10] years from now than it is today. Again,

[19:12] my traditional leadings are Republican,

[19:14] and I want to be a Republican, and I

[19:16] want to vote Republican, but I have to

[19:18] wait and see. I have to see exactly how

[19:20] things are going to change before I'll

[19:22] be willing to support the president

[19:23] again.

[19:24] >> Mr. Charleston, what do you think of the

[19:26] idea? Now, you've already decided that

[19:28] you're going to go and you're going to

[19:29] support Clinton Gore. What do you think

[19:32] of this idea of keeping the Perau

[19:35] organization, the the Perau movement

[19:37] together in some way? Is that realistic

[19:40] from your perspective?

[19:41] >> Uh, I had a conversation with the people

[19:43] in Dallas today. uh point of fact they

[19:46] were looking for someone to represent

[19:48] the state of Illinois and asked me

[19:49] whether uh I thought I should be doing

[19:51] that. I respectfully declined. I really

[19:54] don't see a a way that this can possibly

[19:57] stay together, particularly in Illinois.

[19:59] It's it's very fractionated right now.

[20:01] There are uh there are people who are

[20:03] very angry that Mr. Perau made a promise

[20:06] to uh to all of us that he would get him

[20:08] that if we got him on the ballot, he

[20:10] would give us a first class campaign. in

[20:12] Illinois. We got him on the ballot uh in

[20:14] a very large way and in point of fact,

[20:17] the man is pulled out. Uh it's angered

[20:19] people, it's disappointed people, and in

[20:22] some cases, unfortunately, it's caused

[20:24] people to be disenfranchised again from

[20:26] the political system. Uh I for one uh

[20:29] firmly believe that uh I and hope that

[20:33] people do not back away from the

[20:35] political system, but but actively are

[20:38] heard. relative to your specific

[20:40] question. Um I think it's it's a a very

[20:43] nice thing to try and do, but quite

[20:45] frankly without a standard bear, I can't

[20:47] possibly see how they're going to be

[20:49] able to hold it all together unless Mr.

[20:51] Pro is planning on doing something like

[20:53] uh what I will call power broking, which

[20:55] I s sincerely hope that is not his plan.

[20:57] >> Miss Kramck, what do you think of of

[20:59] keeping the organization together in

[21:01] some form?

[21:02] >> Well, I appreciate the last gentleman

[21:05] that spoke, his concerns. There

[21:06] certainly is fallout and there are a lot

[21:08] of people that have uh found it

[21:10] impossible to overcome their hurt and

[21:12] frustration. There's another number that

[21:14] have jumped either to Mr. Bush or Mr.

[21:16] Clinton automatically. What I've seen

[21:18] here in Colorado is a fairly substantial

[21:20] number of people that uh are are doing

[21:23] none of those things and are are making

[21:24] every effort to stay together. I'm

[21:27] leaving here tonight to go to a 6:00

[21:28] meeting in downtown Denver. We expect at

[21:30] least 60 to 70 people uh that are

[21:33] meeting and this is the second meeting

[21:34] we've had in one week's time uh putting

[21:37] together an agenda and it is a it's

[21:39] again a very grassroots level. Uh we're

[21:41] looking at uh local elections, state

[21:44] elections, uh uh some federal congress

[21:47] uh persons and senator elections, not

[21:50] necessarily just the presidential

[21:51] candidate. Um and I I think it's

[21:54] certainly possible. It's it's going to

[21:55] it's Well, let me ask you this. If 5

[21:57] months ago you'd thought we would have

[21:59] even been sitting here having this

[22:01] conversation, would you have thought we

[22:02] were nuts? I think it's it's feasible

[22:04] that uh these people will stay together.

[22:06] I've certainly seen their passion. I'm

[22:07] one of them. Uh I'm waiting to see how

[22:10] it goes forward.

[22:11] >> Mr. McCutchen in Georgia, are the people

[22:13] going have already pretty well left the

[22:14] parole movement and gone like you in

[22:16] your case to uh to Bush, others to

[22:19] Clinton, etc.?

[22:20] >> Uh Jim, I think so. I think uh I

[22:22] appreciate what Ross Perau did. I think

[22:24] he got a lot of people involved in the

[22:25] political arena and I think that's

[22:27] wonderful. But I think it's time to make

[22:28] a choice. And uh I think what President

[22:31] Bush has to do is is make a real case

[22:33] for his economic program. I think he

[22:35] needs to be strong about cutting capital

[22:37] gains taxes. We're competing with

[22:38] Germany at zero capital gains and Japan

[22:40] at five and we're at ordinary income. I

[22:43] think that the president needs to go out

[22:44] in the in the grassroots places like LJ

[22:46] and across the country like the Clinton

[22:48] Gore ticket are doing and and I I think

[22:50] that's what you're going to have to do.

[22:51] But from your from your perspective, the

[22:54] the parole thing is over, right? It it

[22:55] died six days ago.

[22:57] >> Yes, sir. I think so. I'm I'm still I

[22:58] think he did a great job getting a lot

[23:00] of people involved in the process, but I

[23:02] think yes, I think it's time to make a

[23:04] decision for either for Bill Clinton or

[23:05] for uh President Bush.

[23:07] >> Miss Vincent, what do you think about

[23:08] that?

[23:09] >> Well, I think the grassroots reform

[23:10] movement is alive and I people do not

[23:12] want it to go away. I have had many

[23:15] people calling that had never been

[23:16] involved before. They say, you know,

[23:18] please don't let this go away. I think

[23:20] we're looking toward having a national

[23:21] convention sometime in September. At

[23:23] that point in time, I think we can have

[23:25] thousands of people there, delegates

[23:27] from all of the states, and really look

[23:28] at what our options are then. And Ross

[23:30] Barau is still going to be on the

[23:32] ballot. I mean, you know, you're smiling

[23:34] about this, but

[23:37] >> uh you know, people are taking this so

[23:39] seriously. We have got to maintain this

[23:41] country's standard of living. We have

[23:43] got to create jobs for our people. We've

[23:45] got to give hope to the poor. Ross Perau

[23:47] did all of this. I think it's incredible

[23:49] the way he has energized all of us to be

[23:52] involved and we're not going away.

[23:53] >> How does it go on though without Ross

[23:55] Perau?

[23:56] >> It it's because it's the people. The

[23:58] strength of this was in the people. You

[23:59] know, we were the citizens army. We just

[24:01] put Ross Perau in front of us as our

[24:03] leader. We are still together.

[24:05] >> What' you say?

[24:06] >> He's the messenger. He he isn't the

[24:08] message. I think this is a mistake

[24:10] perhaps uh the media not not you in

[24:13] particular but some of the media made uh

[24:15] all along is that he was they focused on

[24:18] him as a person instead of what he

[24:20] represented and you wouldn't have had

[24:23] the phenomena behind him without a lot

[24:24] of people feeling very strongly that's

[24:26] not going away just because Ross Perau

[24:28] has gone away

[24:29] >> Mr. Okamoto. Yeah, sure.

[24:30] >> What I wanted to say too is that it's as

[24:32] John Adams said in 1760, what is

[24:35] happening here happened in the minds of

[24:36] the people, you know, years before the

[24:38] revolutionary war. That's what's

[24:40] happening here. This has happened in in

[24:42] the minds of the people. Ross Perau was

[24:44] really just the person who who was a

[24:46] catalyst. He he galvanized us. We are

[24:49] not going away. So you would agree with

[24:50] those who said that that if Ross Perau

[24:53] had had tried to do what he he did four

[24:56] years ago, eight years ago, it wouldn't

[24:57] have happened but but because the

[24:58] climate wasn't there.

[24:59] >> The time is ripe right now. It was just

[25:02] an incredible conversion of a

[25:04] personality and a people and we have got

[25:06] the people that are going to make change

[25:08] in this country. We're demanding it.

[25:09] >> Mr. Okamoto,

[25:10] >> can you hear me in in New York?

[25:13] >> Yeah, let me Yeah, just a moment. Let me

[25:14] hear let me get Mr. Okamoto's view on

[25:16] this and then I'll come to you, Mr.

[25:17] Charleston. Yeah, I so much appreciate

[25:19] what this woman is saying. She is

[25:20] exactly right. This was much more

[25:23] important than just Ross Perau. There is

[25:25] no doubt. I respect the man a great deal

[25:26] and thank him for being the in

[25:28] inspiration to begin this movement. But

[25:30] this is much more important than that.

[25:32] And I'm appalled to think that people uh

[25:34] believe that this grassroots movement

[25:36] will go away. And I think that's an

[25:38] incredible insult to all of the

[25:39] volunteers throughout the United States

[25:41] that put this together and what they

[25:42] accomplished in such a short period of

[25:44] time.

[25:44] >> So you're not ticked off at Ross Perau?

[25:46] >> No. No. I'm disappointed and I'm

[25:48] saddened by what happened, but I'm not

[25:50] mad at Ross Pro. I don't know what made

[25:52] Ross Pro make the decisions that he did.

[25:54] None of us do. We're not in his shoes,

[25:56] and someday maybe we'll know more about

[25:58] it, but at this time, uh, we just don't

[26:00] know.

[26:00] >> Mr. Charleston, you're on.

[26:02] >> Yes, sir. Um I I don't uh I don't want

[26:06] to give the opinion that uh that either

[26:08] myself or I think the gentleman from

[26:10] Atlanta uh have given up on the

[26:13] grassroots movement and what's what

[26:14] we've really tried to do in terms of

[26:16] wake awakening the political

[26:18] consciousness of this country. The

[26:20] grassroots movement has been an

[26:22] incredible experience I think for all of

[26:23] us. Um, it's it's taught us an enormous

[26:26] amount about uh about politics in this

[26:29] country. And the one thing I think we've

[26:30] all learned is the enormous amount of

[26:32] money that is necessary to be to run for

[26:35] the presidency of the United States,

[26:36] which is very sad. But more importantly,

[26:39] rather than to say that we are in that

[26:41] it's become insulting to the grassroots

[26:43] movement, it certainly hasn't. Those of

[26:45] us who've participated for the last four

[26:47] or five months uh have had some great

[26:49] joy and have had some disappointments

[26:51] along the line. Uh, but the bottom line

[26:54] is the party's over. Mr. Pro is not

[26:56] going to run for president no matter

[26:58] what we say or do and no matter how hard

[27:00] people try to encourage him. Even if he

[27:03] were to come back in the race, I think

[27:05] at this point now, even if he were to

[27:07] come back in the race, I think at this

[27:08] point it would be a sham to the American

[27:10] public. It was a disappointment uh that

[27:12] he withdrew and it would be even a

[27:14] greater shame if he came back. I think

[27:16] if you want to influence the platforms

[27:18] that are out there, that's great. But

[27:21] the fact of the matter is we have two

[27:22] candidates to pick from and you don't

[27:24] have the option of none of the above.

[27:26] >> Miss Cranley.

[27:27] >> Mr. Cranley.

[27:27] >> Well, I I I would my my comment was we

[27:29] don't need him back. He served his

[27:31] purpose and I agree with the other

[27:32] gentleman that said he deserves a

[27:35] tremendous amount of credit for that.

[27:36] But there are a lot of people that may

[27:40] rise to leadership positions that

[27:42] represent the philosophies that were

[27:44] backing Ross Perau. It's not over yet.

[27:47] >> Yeah. Mr. Mr. McCutchen, you think the

[27:49] party's over? Uh Jim, I I I think we all

[27:51] owe Ross Perau a tremendous debt of

[27:53] gratitude because he energized a lot of

[27:55] people and I think the to overuse the

[27:57] word. I may do it, but I think energize

[27:59] is a key word in 92. I think Bill

[28:00] Clinton has got his people energized and

[28:02] now I think the president needs to move

[28:04] forward and energize his people across

[28:06] America. And I think coming to

[28:08] grassroots places like LJ would do to

[28:10] help do that.

[28:10] >> Mr. LZ, do you you gave you were you're

[28:12] a professor at the University of

[28:13] Pennsylvania, right?

[28:15] >> Yes. and you came down to Dallas to to

[28:17] work as a volunteer in the research

[28:19] department. You have any regrets about

[28:21] having done this to your life?

[28:23] >> No, I I took the student test. It was on

[28:26] April 20th and I attempted to defend the

[28:28] records of George Bush and Bill Clinton

[28:29] to my classes, what they would offer the

[28:31] country, and I found that it became

[28:34] impossible. I had I had to do something

[28:36] different, but I didn't want to opt out

[28:38] of the process. Not only do I have no

[28:40] regrets, I'm hoping that the process

[28:42] continues. The best thing we could hope

[28:44] for is for Ross Bro to stay involved at

[28:47] least to some extent.

[28:48] >> Is it going to though, you know?

[28:50] >> I don't know. I mean, that's the kind of

[28:51] question you'd have to ask him. But I'm

[28:53] encouraged by the fact that volunteers

[28:55] continue to show up at the phone banks

[28:56] every day, that they continue to come to

[28:58] the headquarters in the various parts of

[29:00] the country

[29:01] >> and that they still want to make a

[29:02] difference and they still want Perau to

[29:04] stay involved. The key element is if he

[29:06] shows up somewhere, 3,000 5,000 people

[29:09] come. If he at least lends his name to

[29:12] this, it gives people something to to

[29:15] support, something to galvanize around.

[29:17] We don't need a turnout under 50%. What

[29:20] I'm most afraid of is that we will have

[29:22] an election in 1992 where less than half

[29:25] of the eligible voters will vote. And as

[29:27] long as this movement continues, I feel

[29:30] comfortable that the turnout will be

[29:31] higher.

[29:32] >> All right. Well, we have to leave it

[29:33] there. Miss Vincent, Miss Kramck.

[29:35] Gentlemen, thank you all six for being

[29:37] with us tonight.

[29:39] >> Still ahead on the NewsHour, trimming

[29:41] the National Guard and misery in

[29:43] Somalia.

[29:54] Congress will spend much of the next

[29:56] several weeks trying to trim down the

[29:57] first defense budget since the end of

[29:59] the Cold War. One area the Pentagon is

[30:02] targeted for cuts is the National Guard,

[30:04] but that area may be a little too close

[30:06] to home for some members of Congress.

[30:08] Congressional correspondent Homeman

[30:10] reports.

[30:16] >> In full battle dress, they look and act

[30:18] like soldiers of the regular army. And

[30:21] that's the idea. These are members of

[30:23] the National Guard, Oklahoma's 45th

[30:25] Infantry Brigade. Like guard units

[30:28] across the country, they are the

[30:29] modern-day version of the citizen

[30:31] militia envisioned by the founding

[30:33] fathers.

[30:34] >> Go ahead and keep going and see if

[30:35] there's any on the other side. Had

[30:38] >> the soldiers hold regular jobs but stay

[30:41] ready to defend the nation by training

[30:43] for two weeks every summer and one

[30:45] weekend a month. On this weekend, the

[30:47] 45th was at Camp Gruber in northeastern

[30:50] Oklahoma to prepare for a rare

[30:52] opportunity, participating in full-scale

[30:54] war games with the regular army. But if

[30:57] a recent Pentagon proposal goes through,

[31:00] all this training for the 45th will be

[31:02] unnecessary.

[31:04] Last March, Defense Secretary Dick

[31:06] Cheney and Joint Chiefs of Staff

[31:08] Chairman Coen Powell announced the

[31:10] Defense Department's plan to pair down

[31:12] the National Guard. When the Red Army is

[31:14] gone, the likelihood of a global war and

[31:17] especially a major war in Europe has

[31:20] disappeared before our eyes. Therefore,

[31:22] it is prudent to reduce the active army

[31:24] by this size and it is irresponsible not

[31:28] to bring the reserves down in some

[31:31] relative uh position with respect to the

[31:33] active army. So,

[31:35] >> under the Pentagon plan, 30% of the

[31:37] guard, some 136,000 troops would be

[31:40] eliminated over the next 5 years.

[31:43] Guardsmen and women in nearly every

[31:45] state would lose their part-time jobs.

[31:48] Some states would be hit much harder

[31:50] than others. The Oklahoma National

[31:52] Guard, for instance, would be reduced by

[31:54] half, and the 45th Infantry would be

[31:57] eliminated almost entirely. It is a foot

[32:00] soldier brigade specifically assigned to

[32:02] support active duty forces in Europe.

[32:05] And as those active forces are cut, the

[32:07] Pentagon wants to eliminate the National

[32:09] Guard units connected to them. Tommy

[32:11] Alsa, the Oklahoma National Guard's

[32:13] agitant general, says making such deep

[32:15] cuts in the Guard would be a mistake.

[32:18] >> I agree the fact that we probably need

[32:20] to look at taking away some units both

[32:22] on the active component side and in the

[32:24] National Guard and the reserve.

[32:27] I'm so

[32:29] concerned though that we're going to

[32:30] take and make these changes too quick

[32:33] and too fast before we have a total

[32:35] assessment of what the threat is for the

[32:37] future and that we'll break the National

[32:40] Guard in particular real quickly. You

[32:42] can break a guard unit by taking them

[32:44] down and then if you decide in a year or

[32:46] so that you made a mistake and need that

[32:48] guard unit again, it'll take another 5

[32:50] years to bring them back. The 45th

[32:53] Brigade has been part of Oklahoma's

[32:55] history since the turn of the century,

[32:57] since before the state became a state.

[32:59] By World War II, they were known as the

[33:01] Thunderbirds and earned legendary status

[33:03] when they spent 511 combat days in

[33:06] Europe. Their heroism gained the

[33:09] admiration of people back home. Guard

[33:11] supporters argue that sending citizen

[33:13] soldiers into combat helped cement

[33:16] public support for any war effort. When

[33:18] we mobilized the Garden Reserve for

[33:20] Desert Shield, Desert Storm, all of

[33:22] America became involved in the fight.

[33:25] You take them out of the banks and the

[33:26] pizza parlors and out of the trucks and

[33:28] off the street of America and and

[33:30] everybody knows they're there. So that's

[33:32] the linkage that we need to America to

[33:34] keep the military presence. So that's

[33:37] another reason I hate to see the 45th

[33:38] Infantry Brigade to be be taken out

[33:40] because they're in 35 communities across

[33:43] Oklahoma.

[33:45] Nowhere is the bond stronger than here

[33:47] in Chandler, a town of 3,40 mi east of

[33:50] Oklahoma City. Chandler has been home to

[33:53] the National Guard since 1909 when it

[33:55] became the guard's first state

[33:57] headquarters. Today, nearly every man,

[34:00] woman, and child in Chandler has some

[34:02] attachment to the Guard. Daryl Sage has

[34:05] been a member of the local guard for 37

[34:07] years. He makes gravestones and markers

[34:10] but closes down his shop whenever it's

[34:12] time to train with the Chandler unit.

[34:14] >> You make a lot of friends. Uh

[34:18] you get a lot of experience.

[34:20] You meet a lot of new kids that come

[34:23] into the guards if you've been there

[34:24] very long. Young kids, you knew their

[34:27] parents, you knew most of their

[34:29] grandparents.

[34:31] Uh it's it becomes an important part of

[34:34] your life. sort of sort of like a

[34:36] marriage.

[34:37] >> On this particular Friday, Sage and 130

[34:40] other part-time soldiers gathered before

[34:43] sunrise at the Chandler Armory to pack

[34:45] for weekend exercises. They all have

[34:48] their own reasons for being in the

[34:50] Guard. A paycheck is one of them. Guard

[34:52] duty pays an average $200 a month. That

[34:56] extra money is a necessity for some who

[34:58] serve. Guardsmen like Carl McCullum.

[35:01] McCullum has served in the Chandler unit

[35:03] for 3 years. He worked full-time

[35:05] packaging dairy products at the local

[35:07] Farmresh, but he relies heavily on his

[35:10] part-time pay from the guard.

[35:12] >> Financially, it would put a big hurt on

[35:14] us. We depend a lot on this check to pay

[35:16] bills to uh meet the needs of our

[35:19] family. I help out my parents sometime

[35:22] and they can't make it and that helps me

[35:24] out too.

[35:26] >> If the guard unit goes, so would the

[35:28] guard dollars now spent in town. Phil

[35:31] Tisllo is mayor of Chandler. Uh the

[35:33] people at the armory tell me that they

[35:35] spend about a million and a half dollars

[35:37] a year in payroll and in purchases up

[35:41] and down the street. Now I think if we

[35:44] were to try to uh equate that to an

[35:48] industry uh say employing people at a

[35:51] rate of $10 an hour uh that would be

[35:54] equal to a 72 employee industry. Uh that

[35:57] would be Chandler's fourth largest

[35:59] employer. So it, you know, it's it's

[36:01] pretty important to us.

[36:03] >> We visited Oklahoma the same weekend the

[36:05] National Guard was called out to quell

[36:07] riots in Los Angeles. Mayor Tisllo

[36:10] pointed out that the Guard provides a

[36:12] function beyond its support of active

[36:14] forces overseas. It provides protection

[36:16] to the homeront.

[36:18] >> The Guard has been very beneficial in

[36:20] Chandler and in Lincoln County uh in in

[36:23] terms of natural disasters, uh floods,

[36:27] uh tornadoes, cyclones, things like

[36:29] that. There have been numerous occasions

[36:31] when uh uh Bellcow Creek, which runs

[36:35] down the south side of town, has risen

[36:37] to the point that some of the homes on

[36:38] the on the south side of town here were

[36:40] threatened with high water. Uh the guard

[36:42] has come in and assisted in evacuating

[36:44] those people and their property. And uh

[36:47] they've also assisted in other

[36:48] communities uh when tornadoes have

[36:50] struck those communities.

[36:52] >> But those arguments haven't persuaded

[36:54] Pentagon planners. Announcing the

[36:56] proposal for military cuts last March,

[36:59] Secretary Cheney said his list was based

[37:01] specifically on wartime mission and that

[37:04] mission defending Europe from Soviet

[37:06] attack had been eliminated. 80% of the

[37:11] reserve and guard units that are being

[37:13] taken out on the list that we're

[37:14] presenting to Congress today

[37:16] specifically were part of that force

[37:17] that was intended to go to Europe in

[37:19] wartime and to support the active force.

[37:21] But a random check turned up a dozen

[37:24] units on the list that weren't primarily

[37:26] assigned to Europe. For instance, the

[37:28] 1138th Engineer Battalion in Missouri,

[37:31] the 141st Engineer Battalion in North

[37:34] Dakota, and the 870th MP Company in

[37:38] California. All were listed in March as

[37:41] primarily assigned to NATO, though their

[37:44] actual primary assignment is the

[37:46] Pacific. Secretary of the Army Michael

[37:48] Stone tried to explain the

[37:50] discrepancies.

[37:52] >> Sometimes these um mission alignments

[37:55] get a little complicated to trace using

[37:57] that same word I used before. Uh for

[38:00] example, a unit could be uh aligned with

[38:05] or traced to the third core which is

[38:08] headquartered in Fort Hood in Texas. And

[38:13] Fort Hood is oriented on Europe, but it

[38:16] is possible that a unit that was

[38:18] assigned to third corps could have a

[38:22] non-European mission. It's difficult to

[38:24] me to visualize what that would be, but

[38:27] for the sake of example, I could I'll

[38:30] I'll say that that's possible.

[38:32] >> Senator John Glenn of Ohio, chairman of

[38:34] the Armed Services Subcommittee on

[38:36] Manpower, says he's had trouble getting

[38:38] answers from the Pentagon about reasons

[38:41] for the cuts. We have tried to get the

[38:43] rationale used for the cuts

[38:46] and when we asked for the rationale used

[38:47] for the cuts it was not forthcoming

[38:50] and I don't know whe there is one or

[38:52] not. Now we've asked repeatedly over

[38:54] about the last 6-month period uh for

[38:57] this correlation as to why specific

[38:59] units were dealt with the way they were.

[39:02] Uh I started out thinking we're going to

[39:04] have to take our cuts in Ohio like

[39:05] everybody else. And I asked I just want

[39:07] to make sure what the rationale is so

[39:09] we're being dealt with fairly. It turned

[39:10] out there wasn't any really.

[39:12] >> Factored into the debate over the

[39:14] downsizing of the Guard is a

[39:16] long-standing feud between the Pentagon

[39:18] and Congress over the combat readiness

[39:20] of the Guard. The feud last erupted

[39:23] during Desert Storm. Many National Guard

[39:25] units that were activated were kept away

[39:28] from the action contrary to the Guard's

[39:30] stated purpose of rounding out the

[39:32] regular army. House Armed Services

[39:35] Committee Chairman Les Aspen questioned

[39:37] that decision during a speech in May.

[39:40] >> It seems to us in Congress to put the

[39:44] problem quite plainly that there is a

[39:46] tension between the Army National Guard

[39:49] and the active army. And I don't really

[39:52] know the whole history of why this is,

[39:56] but it exists. It seems to us in

[39:59] Congress is that it has led to a policy

[40:02] of quite frankly leaving the guard on

[40:05] the shelf. What we do is we create the

[40:08] units, we equip them, uh we give them a

[40:12] roll on paper, but when we leave them at

[40:15] home when the balloon goes up. Now, we

[40:18] have a vivid example of this at the

[40:20] Operation Desert Storm. But Army

[40:23] Secretary Michael Stone says he wasn't

[40:26] going to send in reserve troops who

[40:28] weren't ready for combat.

[40:29] >> The army, the active army trains today

[40:32] about 240 days a year. It's very

[40:35] difficult in the case of armor and

[40:38] infantry to do that in 39 days to

[40:42] achieve that degree of sophistication.

[40:45] Um, and so when those units get called

[40:48] up, it is natural if we are going to

[40:51] conserve lives and we are not going to

[40:54] put people in danger of losing their

[40:58] lives to make sure that their training

[41:01] is at the right degree of readiness. A

[41:04] very, very fundamental point.

[41:06] Senator Glenn agrees that troops should

[41:09] not see combat before they are ready,

[41:11] but he wants the guard's readiness

[41:13] studied and determined before cuts are

[41:16] made. Let's see what units can best be

[41:18] in the reserves can do just as good a

[41:20] job there in in contributing to the

[41:22] readiness of the country uh without just

[41:25] assigning a percentage to it. This

[41:27] salami slice of you get a cut, I get a

[41:29] cut, you get a cut, I get a cut. So no

[41:31] matter what happens out here, no matter

[41:33] what there is out here in the National

[41:35] Guard or what the states may need for a

[41:37] a domestic situation here, we're going

[41:39] to cut 30% or so on because somebody

[41:41] decided that was the magic number over

[41:43] in the Pentagon. That's not the way you

[41:45] build the combat forces you need for the

[41:47] future.

[41:48] >> It is the Congress that ultimately will

[41:50] decide how drastically the National

[41:52] Guard will be cut. Nearly every

[41:54] congressional district has a guard unit

[41:56] in it, and many members have worked

[41:58] feverishly to keep defense cuts from so

[42:00] much as nicking their constituents. The

[42:02] House already has bulked at the size of

[42:04] the cuts suggested by the Pentagon, and

[42:07] the Senate is expected to follow. But

[42:09] any reprieve for the Guard might be

[42:12] temporary. With budget pressures

[42:14] mounting, Congress eventually may have

[42:16] to approve cuts as large as the Pentagon

[42:18] has proposed.

[42:20] All the political infighting is lost on

[42:23] the people of Chandler. They just are

[42:25] hoping for a reversal. And the guardsmen

[42:27] and women of the 45th Infantry Brigade

[42:30] will continue to drill as they await

[42:32] final word from Washington.

[42:44] Next tonight, an update on one of the

[42:46] world's tragedies, the civil war and

[42:48] starvation in the East African nation,

[42:50] Somalia. The war in the country of 6

[42:53] million people has been going on since

[42:54] the beginning of 91 and has become more

[42:57] intense in the last 8 months. In the

[42:59] capital of Moadishu alone, as many as

[43:02] 30,000 people have died since November

[43:04] in fighting or from starvation. Up to

[43:07] now, much of the food aid coming from

[43:09] abroad has not reached the people who

[43:11] desperately need it. Jeremy Thompson of

[43:13] Independent Television News was in

[43:15] Mogadishu recently, and here's his

[43:17] report.

[43:19] The latest relief flight enters Somalia,

[43:22] winging fast and low across the desert

[43:24] scrub to avoid possible ground fire. The

[43:27] operation to bring food to this

[43:29] country's starving millions is a

[43:31] desperate and dangerous business.

[43:33] Security trucks ring the plane as the

[43:36] sacks of rice are rapidly unloaded while

[43:38] hungry wasted figures form a pitiful

[43:41] welcoming party. With local gangs riding

[43:45] shotgun, supplies are rushed through the

[43:47] streets of Bogadishu.

[43:50] This broken city, now controlled by

[43:52] marauding bands of freelance gunmen, has

[43:55] become a haven for lutters who make a

[43:57] living out of plundering international

[43:59] relief with no regard for their fellow

[44:02] Somali.

[44:03] Though a tenuous ceasefire has replaced

[44:06] all-out conflict, the vicious power

[44:08] struggle between rival clan warlords has

[44:11] turned Somalia's capital into Africa's

[44:13] Beirut. The structure and society all

[44:16] but destroyed, leaving only anarchy in

[44:19] its wake. Amid the ruins of Mogadishu,

[44:22] the rest survive where they can.

[44:24] Hundreds of squalid camps have sprung up

[44:27] in the shells of bombed out buildings

[44:29] with no water or sanitation. For most,

[44:32] their only lifeline is a network of 200

[44:35] feeding kitchens set up by the

[44:37] International Red Cross to try and

[44:39] ensure that relief food reaches those

[44:42] who really need it. Some 300,000 people

[44:45] in Mogadishu now depend entirely on the

[44:48] kitchens for survival. But for many, the

[44:51] aid is not enough. They're already too

[44:54] weak and too sick to eat.

[44:59] >> Amid the sounds of suffering, we saw

[45:02] children and their parents dying all

[45:04] around us, even within sight and smell

[45:07] of the food. On the day we visited this

[45:10] one camp, 20 people died. It was a

[45:13] similar story everywhere we went.

[45:15] Mothers watched helplessly as their

[45:17] babies wasted away.

[45:22] >> Bad Duma was barely clinging on to life

[45:24] herself.

[45:26] Just yards from her tent, the graves of

[45:29] eight of her 10 children buried in the

[45:31] last week. Clearly shocked by the scenes

[45:34] around them, a British Red Cross team

[45:36] who'd come to see how funds from their

[45:39] new Somali appeal could best be used to

[45:41] help.

[45:42] >> Obviously, the political solution is not

[45:44] something that we can do anything about.

[45:45] All we can try and do is keep people

[45:47] alive and and make them better uh so

[45:50] that when that problem is resolved, they

[45:51] can go back to normality.

[45:53] >> 80% of Somalis are now suffering from

[45:55] malnutrition. The International Red

[45:58] Cross has already spent40 million pounds

[46:00] on food relief and says it needs double

[46:02] that to stave off a human catastrophe.

[46:05] Despite all the relief supplies getting

[46:07] into Mogadishu, tens of thousands of

[46:10] Somali still face death by starvation

[46:13] and the numbers are increasing daily.

[46:16] The dreadful truth is that only a

[46:18] fraction of the food is reaching those

[46:20] who need it most.

[46:22] The problems start at the port where

[46:24] relief agencies have to deal with four

[46:26] rival clans who all demand a share of

[46:29] the food before anything moves. In 3

[46:32] weeks, this Red Cross ship has unloaded

[46:35] just a quarter of its life-saving cargo.

[46:38] At last, another convoy is allowed to

[46:40] move out of the warehouse under heavy

[46:42] protection and the sound of gunfire.

[46:46] on board enough food to keep the Red

[46:48] Cross kitchen going for just three days,

[46:50] but it's taken 4 days to negotiate.

[46:54] >> They come with their technical carries

[46:57] and they they said we don't care about

[46:59] the people who are dying. We want to

[47:00] take this food by force. And I myself, I

[47:03] asked this question to some gunman. I

[47:05] said, "You are not thinking about your

[47:07] people who are dying." They said, "We

[47:08] don't care." This callous battle over

[47:11] food may be claiming 5,000 lives every

[47:14] day across Somalia, according to the

[47:16] United Nations, as many as were killed

[47:18] in 6 months of fighting. Now, it's the

[47:21] innocent and the vulnerable who are the

[47:23] main victims of this self-inflicted

[47:25] tragedy as yet another day ends at the

[47:28] burial ground.

[47:31] Republican Senator Nancy Cassabam of

[47:33] Kansas, a member of the African Affairs

[47:35] Subcommittee, has just visited refugee

[47:37] camps on the Kenya Somalia border and

[47:39] the town of Bellot Twain on the border

[47:41] with Ethiopia. Senator Cassab is the

[47:44] highest ranking American to visit

[47:45] Somalia since the civil war started. She

[47:48] testified today before the House Select

[47:50] Committee on Hunger. Senator Cassab,

[47:52] thank you for joining us. What was your

[47:55] personal reaction to what you saw?

[47:58] Well, I think the film that you showed

[48:00] uh captured the uh feeling in the

[48:03] country. I suppose the thing that you

[48:05] come away with is the incredible

[48:08] uh endurance uh particularly of the

[48:12] large numbers of women and children and

[48:14] elders that you see. And um I I never

[48:19] heard any children crying there. It's

[48:22] very quiet in many ways as they wait

[48:24] patiently usually for morning feeding

[48:26] and and afternoon feeding to and lined

[48:30] up for for great distances

[48:33] and uh um in in many ways with great

[48:37] dignity even though they are uh

[48:41] uh so resigned to just somehow having to

[48:46] sit and wait. you would you from your

[48:49] observations confirm what that British

[48:51] reporter just uh was suggesting that

[48:54] there's enough food arriving at Somalia

[48:57] or in Somalia but that it's being

[48:59] prevented from getting to the people who

[49:01] need it. I I think it's even getting to

[49:04] people who need it because they're

[49:06] having to fly all of the food in either

[49:10] it's by dock and uh to the harbor such

[49:13] as Moadishu and other harbors along the

[49:17] coast, but they can't get it inland uh

[49:21] to the places that need it in other

[49:23] areas of Somalia and they're having to

[49:25] airlift the food in. I rode on a C130 to

[49:29] one of the large refugee camps on the

[49:31] Kenya Somalia border and that goes in

[49:33] twice a day. Um

[49:37] so that's why I think it's absolutely

[49:39] but there is banditry uh the it's a

[49:42] lawlessness situation that prevails

[49:44] there and it's it's getting worse as

[49:46] they try and hold up the food shipments

[49:48] and so forth. So I think that it is

[49:52] imperative that we make sure and this is

[49:54] why I feel strongly that the the UN must

[49:58] provide armed security forces to secure

[50:02] the harbors and secure the corridors out

[50:06] for the delivery of the food so it can

[50:08] go overland from the harbors inland. the

[50:10] uh the prime minister, the acting prime

[50:12] minister of the of the temporary

[50:14] government uh today appealed for a UN

[50:17] peacekeeping force and the UN said that

[50:20] a 47man observer force will be in

[50:23] Somalia in a week. Now, does that answer

[50:26] the need?

[50:27] >> No, I don't think it does. Ambassador

[50:30] Cenoon who is the uh uh special envoy uh

[50:35] the to uh appointed by the secretary

[50:37] general of the United Nations has worked

[50:40] diligently to try and get this put

[50:42] together um and that's a first step but

[50:45] it won't do any good in my mind uh until

[50:48] they present a strong armed force and if

[50:52] the United Nations security forces could

[50:54] be armed and would be willing to go in

[50:58] uh with an agreement from others in the

[51:01] country instead of just getting an

[51:03] agreement from General Adid or Alimadi

[51:06] as representatives of the two major

[51:09] clans uh that uh subfactions so to speak

[51:13] that have been holding Mogadishu.

[51:16] There are many of the elders in other

[51:18] regions of the country and Ambassador

[51:20] Sunoon has put forward some

[51:22] recommendations that I I I think are

[51:24] very sound ones. I know the

[51:26] administration thinks there sounds as

[51:28] far as regional parts of Somaya and the

[51:31] elders who exist in these regions who

[51:34] very much I think can answer some of

[51:36] these needs of their particular regions

[51:39] once there is food and once there is

[51:42] security that that food can be there

[51:45] >> and you want to put it simply you want

[51:48] uh your government to give the UN a push

[51:50] in that direction.

[51:51] >> I certainly do. you were um in your

[51:54] testimony today, you had some pretty

[51:56] strong words for the United States. You

[51:57] said we wouldn't have allowed Somalia to

[52:00] get in this kind of to deteriorate if

[52:02] there were still a Soviet Union to fear.

[52:05] Explain what you meant by that.

[52:08] >> Well, Somalia and the Horn of Africa

[52:10] were very important for strategic

[52:12] reasons. first to the Soviet Union in

[52:14] the 70s and then we realized how very

[52:17] important it was to us and we exerted

[52:20] great influence and provide uh major u

[52:24] uh commitment and military support and

[52:28] support to the govern government of

[52:31] Shiad Bar who ran a a tight repressive

[52:35] government for 20ome years.

[52:37] I felt that it since we were willing and

[52:40] felt the security need uh to uh

[52:45] had the strategic interest at that time

[52:47] in the cold war with the Soviets that we

[52:50] should have humanitarian interests

[52:52] today. And if we were of course still

[52:55] concerned with the strategic interests

[52:57] as we were at the time of the cold war,

[53:00] um we owe it to Somaya to be interested

[53:04] today to provide some humanitarian

[53:08] stability so they themselves can get the

[53:11] country back in shape.

[53:12] >> You said the US has a moral obligation.

[53:14] >> Yes, I do.

[53:14] >> You don't and you don't think it's

[53:16] meeting it? Well, we are providing

[53:18] already 60some million dollars of

[53:21] support to the international

[53:22] organizations. And I I would just like

[53:24] to say the the men and women who are

[53:27] working there in these international

[53:29] organizations and there are many

[53:31] Americans who are there with the uh uh

[53:35] international medical corps

[53:38] uh with um uh the inter international

[53:42] red cross. They're they're just doctors

[53:44] without borders. that there's some fine

[53:46] people volunteering there. Um, and we're

[53:50] giving financial support to those

[53:52] different groups. But I think we also

[53:55] within the framework of the

[53:57] international community

[53:59] uh need to make a a larger commitment

[54:01] and to provide a push as you say a

[54:05] strong push uh towards I think stepping

[54:08] forward and saying more has to be done

[54:09] and should be done soon.

[54:11] Many are saying today that politicians

[54:14] of both parties in Congress and in the

[54:16] White House are afraid to push any

[54:19] foreign aid really strongly today

[54:21] because it's unpopular with the voters.

[54:23] Do you think that's do you think that's

[54:25] a factor in in in this and some other

[54:28] situations at the moment?

[54:29] >> No, I I don't think it is particularly

[54:31] in this. And that's true though. I I

[54:33] mean I certainly would have constituents

[54:35] at home as we all would around the

[54:37] country who would say we have so many

[54:38] problems at home. What more can we do?

[54:41] We we've we've helped in Ethiopia. We've

[54:44] helped in other areas. And does anything

[54:47] ever improve? And why shouldn't we take

[54:50] care first of our problems here at home?

[54:53] I would argue yes, we should take care

[54:55] of our problems here at home. That is of

[54:58] great concern to us. But we are a great

[55:00] nation and I think we can do both. I

[55:03] don't think we do one or the other. I

[55:05] think we can step forward within a

[55:07] framework which we carefully know. I

[55:10] don't think it should just be

[55:11] willy-nilly just millions more dollars,

[55:14] but a careful framework with an ends and

[55:16] a means to get there. That's important.

[55:19] And within the context of the

[55:22] international community,

[55:23] >> do you think the humanitarian instincts

[55:26] of the American people have dried up

[55:28] with the end of the Cold War?

[55:33] No, I don't think they have dried up.

[55:35] But I think there is a certain

[55:36] frustration about wondering if it does

[55:38] any good. There just seems to to be one

[55:42] sort of disaster after another. And

[55:44] perhaps it's a certain have we become

[55:47] sort of uh weary of knowing how to uh

[55:51] how to improve it all.

[55:54] Uh but I I think it can be done and I

[55:57] feel strongly that we shouldn't give up

[56:00] and I feel strongly that we not only

[56:02] need to help the people of Somaya who

[56:05] have as I say great endurance and

[56:07] dignity.

[56:08] >> I'm

[56:09] >> but our own NOS's who are working there.

[56:12] >> Okay. Uh non-governmental organizations.

[56:15] That's right. Senator Cassen, thank you

[56:17] for joining us.

[56:18] >> Thank you.

[56:20] Again,

[56:27] the major stories of this Wednesday.

[56:29] President Bush denied a published rumor

[56:32] that Vice President Quail would be

[56:33] dropped on the ticket. He did not deny

[56:35] reports Secretary of State Baker would

[56:37] be coming in to run the Bush Quail

[56:39] election campaign. And White House

[56:41] spokesman Fitzwater warned Iraq of

[56:43] possible US military action if the

[56:46] harassment of UN arms inspectors in

[56:48] Baghdad did not stop. Good night, Robin.

[56:51] >> Good night, Jim. That's the NewsHour

[56:52] tonight and we'll be back tomorrow

[56:54] night. I'm Robert McNeel. Good night.

[56:58] >> Part of helping the world live and

[57:00] communicate better is keeping it well

[57:02] informed.

[57:05] That's why funding for the McNeelair

[57:07] NewsHour is provided by AT&T.

[57:12] and by PepsiCo

[57:22] and by the Corporation for Public

[57:24] Broadcasting and viewers like you.

[57:32] This is PBS.

[57:48] Missouri.

[57:51] 50 states. Nearly that many kinds of

[57:54] wood. Time to go to my racks and find

[57:58] something real green.

[57:59] >> Bits and pieces from everywhere.

[58:02] Banana, juniper, and lacewood.

[58:06] O sage orange rose east Indian rose

[58:09] Honduran

[58:10] >> piece of uh black locust is one

[58:12] possibility

[58:14] >> geography in wood Oregon and its

[58:17] counties any country of the world and

[58:20] the world itself

[58:26] the world in wood.

[58:28] >> This is the box elder with the the

[58:30] bright red burls in it. It is a world

[58:33] that costs from $1,800 to $3,000

[58:35] depending on size. When Russell Ostero

[58:38] isn't making wooden maps, he is building

[58:41] rolltop desks and gun cabinets

[58:46] and coffee tables and executive desks

[58:50] and chairs.

[58:51] >> I want people to enjoy a piece for the

[58:53] rest of their life and uh and know what

[58:56] what they're getting and also know what

[58:58] what to look for. So from woods with

[59:01] strange names,

[59:03] >> Indonesian Merbo,

[59:06] Zerodyi,

[59:10] African Paduk.

[59:12] >> He recreates geographical boundaries

[59:17] and the furniture to make the economies

[59:19] function.

[59:25] Ray Summers at large with photographer

[59:27] John Keller, Elgen, Oregon. Beautiful

[59:32] furniture. I wonder how his maps keep up

[59:34] with all the changes in Eastern Europe.

[59:36] >> More wood, I guess, and

[59:37] >> more pieces.

[59:38] >> Thanks for joining us, everybody.

[59:40] >> We'll see you at 11.