PBS NewsHour - 1996-03-06
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:06] Good evening, I'm Jim Lara. On the
[0:08] NewsHour tonight, wins, dropouts, and
[0:11] endorsements in the Republican
[0:12] presidential race.Wami Homeman reports.
[0:15] Prominent Republicans Ben Weber, Bill
[0:17] Bennett, Malcolm Wallup, and Gary Bower
[0:19] react. Mark Shields, Paul Jigo, and Bill
[0:22] Crystal analyze. And finally, a Roger
[0:25] Rosenblad essay about the value of art.
[0:28] It all follows our summary of the news
[0:30] this Wednesday.
[0:31] >> Major funding for the NewsHour with Jim
[0:33] Lara has been provided by the Archer
[0:35] Daniels Midland Company, ADM,
[0:37] Supermarket to the World,
[0:41] and by New York Life, yet another
[0:44] example of New York Life's wise
[0:46] investment philosophy,
[0:50] and by the Corporation for Public
[0:52] Broadcasting, and by the annual
[0:54] financial support from viewers like you.
[0:57] This was a busy day in the Republican
[0:59] presidential race. Bob Dole's
[1:01] eight-state sweep of yesterday's
[1:03] primaries led to two candidate dropouts.
[1:06] Lamar Alexander speaking in Nashville
[1:08] through his support to Dole. So did
[1:10] Indiana Senator Richard Luger, who made
[1:12] his withdrawal announcement at the
[1:14] capital in Washington. Pat Buchanan and
[1:17] Steve Forbes vowed to stay in the race.
[1:19] Forbes was endorsed today by former
[1:21] housing secretary and Congressman Jack
[1:23] Kemp, an advocate of Forb's flat tax
[1:26] policy. Dole matched that with an
[1:28] endorsement from Texas Governor George
[1:30] W. Bush, and encouraging words from his
[1:33] father, the former president. Texas is
[1:35] one of the states with a primary next
[1:37] week on what is called Super Tuesday.
[1:40] We'll have much more on the Republican
[1:41] race right after this news summary. In
[1:44] Congress today, the House passed the
[1:46] bill that tightens sanctions against
[1:47] Cuba. The vote was 336 to 86. In debate,
[1:52] opponents said the bill would further
[1:53] isolate Cuba. Supporters said the bill
[1:55] would hasten the end of the Castro
[1:57] regime. I think this bill that is before
[2:00] us is a huge mistake. And I believe that
[2:03] for several reasons. First of all, as a
[2:06] matter of policy, it picks isolation
[2:08] over engagement. And by increasing
[2:11] Cuba's isolation and by squeezing the
[2:13] Cuban people, the conference report
[2:16] risks a violent upheaval in Cuba and
[2:20] increases the risk of a massive flow of
[2:22] refugees. The way you deal with Fidel
[2:25] Castro since he's on his last legs is
[2:27] don't let him have the hard dollars that
[2:29] he needs to stay in power. And that's
[2:31] what this bill does. This bill will
[2:34] force him with from power. And I really
[2:36] believe that in the next 2 or 3 years.
[2:39] >> The Senate passed the bill yesterday and
[2:41] President Clinton said he would sign it.
[2:43] His opposition changed to support after
[2:45] the Cuban shootown of two civilian
[2:47] airplanes two weeks ago. The Senate
[2:50] today debated a Republican plan to
[2:52] extend the Whitewater investigation.
[2:54] Funding for the Senate's Whitewater
[2:55] Committee expired last Thursday. The
[2:58] proposal would provide $600,000 for it
[3:01] to continue. A full Senate vote is
[3:03] expected next week. At the White House,
[3:06] retired Army General Barry McAffrey was
[3:08] sworn in today as the new drugs are. The
[3:10] job is a cabinet level appointment.
[3:12] Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader
[3:14] Ginsburgg officiated at the White House
[3:17] ceremony. President Clinton told
[3:18] McAffrey he wanted to shift $250 million
[3:21] from the Pentagon budget to the
[3:23] anti-drug effort. The State Department
[3:26] released its annual report on human
[3:28] rights today. It cited China, Russia,
[3:31] Mexico, and Saudi Arabia among states
[3:33] that continued abuses in 1995.
[3:36] On China, the report said economic
[3:38] growth and increased trade did not bring
[3:40] greater respect for human rights.
[3:42] Assistant Secretary of State John
[3:44] Shhatic was asked if US policy should be
[3:47] reconsidered.
[3:48] >> We do not believe that a strategy of
[3:51] isolating China is likely to enhance the
[3:54] human rights of Chinese citizens. Quite
[3:56] to the contrary, broad engagement not
[3:59] only by at the governmental level but at
[4:01] the private level and support for that
[4:04] engagement is very important while at
[4:06] the same time making uh very clear uh
[4:09] that uh human rights abuses uh continue.
[4:13] The most repressive periods in recent
[4:15] Chinese history have occurred in times
[4:17] of international isolation and so
[4:20] isolation is by no means the answer to
[4:22] the problem of human rights abuse. The
[4:25] State Department reports that abuses
[4:27] decreased significantly in Turkey and
[4:30] Israel. On the Israeli bombing story
[4:32] today, Palestinian President Yaser
[4:34] Arafat approved a life sentence of hard
[4:37] labor for a man connected with the
[4:39] attacks. The 21-year-old terrorist was
[4:42] convicted last night by a Palestinian
[4:44] court. He admitted recruiting three of
[4:46] the suicide bombers responsible for four
[4:49] explosions in Israel during the past two
[4:51] weeks. 57 people have been killed. The
[4:54] Muslim militant group Hamas has claimed
[4:56] responsibility.
[4:57] Lawyer E. Lee Bailey went to jail for
[5:00] contempt of court today. He could serve
[5:02] up to six months for failing to produce
[5:04] $25 million in stocks. The securities
[5:07] were to be turned over to the government
[5:08] by a client convicted of drug dealing. A
[5:11] US District judge had given Bailey until
[5:13] 5:00 p.m. today to come up with the
[5:15] assets. Bailey will serve his time in a
[5:17] Florida prison. And that's it for the
[5:19] news summary tonight. Now it's on to
[5:21] today's shakedown in the Republican
[5:23] presidential race and a Roger Rosenlat
[5:26] essay.
[5:35] This was someday in the race for the
[5:37] Republican presidential nomination. It
[5:39] began with last night's eight primary
[5:41] sweep by Bob Dole.Wami Holman reports.
[5:45] >> Last night belonged to Senator Bob Dole.
[5:47] He won all the days Republican primaries
[5:50] in Georgia, Colorado, Maryland,
[5:52] Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont,
[5:54] Maine, and Rhode Island.
[5:56] >> We found a leader to bring the
[5:57] Republican party together.
[6:06] >> And pretty soon, we're going to unite to
[6:08] achieve one purpose. That's to defeat
[6:10] Bill Clinton November 1996. That's our
[6:13] purpose.
[6:14] And this morning, Dole sought to keep
[6:16] the momentum going, traveling to Texas
[6:19] to pick up the backing of the state's
[6:20] popular governor, George W. Bush, son of
[6:23] the former president.
[6:25] >> Being a good president requires strong
[6:27] character,
[6:29] integrity, and will. To change America,
[6:33] we must change presidents.
[6:36] Senator Dole, we need your integrity and
[6:38] character in our White House, and I am
[6:41] proud to be able to do anything I can to
[6:44] help you achieve the presidency of the
[6:46] United States.
[6:47] >> The senator from Kansas won 199
[6:50] delegates yesterday, boosting his
[6:52] delegate total to a commanding 290,
[6:55] approaching onethird of the 996 needed
[6:58] to win the Republican presidential
[7:00] nomination. Dole's nearest rivals are
[7:02] businessman Steve Forbes with 72
[7:05] delegates and political commentator Pat
[7:07] Buchanan in third place with 62. In
[7:10] Texas, Dole made an appeal for unity
[7:12] among Republican voters in the upcoming
[7:14] primaries.
[7:15] >> I believe we have an obligation in our
[7:17] party to reach out to people, become the
[7:20] majority party for the right reason,
[7:22] because we have a heart, because we're
[7:24] sensitive, because we have ideas,
[7:26] because we have an agenda, and because
[7:28] we're concerned about the future. And
[7:29] the future's right over here. This is
[7:31] what the election's all about on my
[7:33] left. It's all about these children.
[7:35] It's all about their opportunities. Will
[7:38] there be jobs available? What kind of
[7:40] opportunities do they have when they're
[7:42] 17, 18, 25 years of age? And it's going
[7:45] to depend on the leadership we have as
[7:46] we go into the next century. And let me
[7:48] just say how truly excited, immensely
[7:51] excited and gratified I am that this
[7:53] extraordinary figure is now on board.
[7:56] It's really, as they say, not only made
[7:57] my day, but really made the week, the
[8:00] month. It is very, very exciting. Jack
[8:03] Kemp,
[8:04] >> Steve Forbes, unveiled a big endorsement
[8:07] of his own today in Albany, New York, 24
[8:10] hours before that state holds its
[8:12] primary. It came from 1988 presidential
[8:15] candidate and influential Republican
[8:17] party leader Jack Kemp.
[8:19] >> I'm for Steve. I'm not against anybody
[8:21] else. I am for the one candidate who is
[8:24] a candidate of inclusion, optimism, the
[8:27] 21st century, who understands that we've
[8:29] got to grow this economy. We got to
[8:32] create more jobs and once again make
[8:34] America an enterprise zone from sea to
[8:37] shining sea.
[8:39] >> Meanwhile, candidate Pat Buchanan vowed
[8:42] today to continue his presidential
[8:44] campaign all the way through the primary
[8:46] season despite a growing chorus of
[8:48] Republican voices against his candidacy.
[8:51] We are going, my friends, we're going to
[8:53] fight this all the way to San Diego
[8:55] right on the White House.
[9:02] >> You know, they ask me say, "How long are
[9:04] you going to fight?" I tell them,
[9:05] "Listen, we're going to fight until hell
[9:07] freezes over and then we're going TO
[9:08] FIGHT ON THE ICE."
[9:12] >> But quit was exactly what two other
[9:14] candidates did today. In the ornate
[9:16] Senate hearing room where he presides as
[9:18] chairman of the Agriculture Committee,
[9:20] Senator Richard Luger of Indiana proved
[9:22] last night's rumors he'd drop out were
[9:24] true. He ended his presidential bid
[9:27] without winning a single delegate.
[9:29] >> I know now that I will not be the
[9:31] Republican party nominee for president
[9:33] in 1996.
[9:36] After a remarkable day of voting, the in
[9:38] 10 states yesterday, the apparent
[9:41] nominee is a man for whom I have great
[9:44] admiration, Senator Bob Dole of Kansas,
[9:47] and I look forward to his presidency. Uh
[9:50] we have to have unity in the party, and
[9:51] we have to have an appeal to
[9:52] independents and Democrats. This is not
[9:55] an ideological party. It's a party
[9:57] that's very broadly based when it wins,
[9:59] and that will be the case this time.
[10:01] >> What would you say to Buchanan?
[10:03] >> Well, he's a great competitor. and uh I
[10:06] think a terrific thinker and he'll make
[10:09] his case. But ultimately a majority of
[10:11] Republicans have to make their case and
[10:14] it is one of a broader party. It's an
[10:16] inclusive party. It's one that is humane
[10:18] and thoughtful. That has to be the
[10:20] hallmark of a winning party.
[10:22] >> And in front of a hometown crowd in
[10:24] Nashville, Tennessee, the state's former
[10:26] governor, Lamar Alexander, ended his
[10:29] year-long campaign for the White House.
[10:31] He threw his support to Dole while
[10:33] throwing cold water on the campaign of
[10:35] Pat Buchanan.
[10:37] >> Senator Dole got the votes I was hoping
[10:38] to get. U you know there there's I I
[10:43] think it's fair to say that all through
[10:45] this campaign I showed my respect for
[10:47] Senator Dole. I simply said that I
[10:50] thought I was a better choice to take
[10:52] our agenda into the next century and to
[10:55] be the first president of the next
[10:56] century. And I think the voters have
[10:57] looked at me and they've looked at him
[11:00] and they've concluded that his
[11:01] experience and that his maturity is what
[11:04] they would prefer. And I think uh I have
[11:07] lived long enough to to uh to know the
[11:11] difference between uh continuing to
[11:13] fight the good fight and ignoring
[11:15] reality. And I have I have listened to
[11:17] the voters and and accepted their
[11:20] decision. I will say about Pat Buchanan
[11:22] that his Buchananism is exactly wrong
[11:25] for our party.
[11:27] Exactly wrong for our party. I suspect
[11:36] I want my comments today to be of a
[11:38] positive nature about Senator Doe. I
[11:40] suspect one reason why Senator Doe won
[11:43] so strongly in South Carolina and in
[11:45] yesterday was that people saw in him a
[11:48] reliable way to express their opposition
[11:50] to Buchananism. And I I will lend my own
[11:54] weight, whatever weight that may be, to
[11:58] stopping and discouraging this
[12:00] negativism, hunkered down, pessimistic
[12:02] view of America that is all conjured up
[12:05] in Buchananism. I mean, the idea of Pat
[12:07] Buchanan as president is not a serious
[12:10] idea. He belongs on crossfire, not in
[12:12] the White House.
[12:13] >> But for now, it appears the Republican
[12:15] unity called for by the front runner
[12:17] will take a while longer to achieve.
[12:20] >> Now, how these events look to those on
[12:22] the inside inside the Republican party.
[12:24] Margaret Warner has that.
[12:27] >> Now, the perspectives of four key
[12:29] Republican players in this campaign. Vin
[12:31] Weber, former House member from
[12:33] Minnesota, is co-chairman of the Dole
[12:35] campaign. Malcolm Wallup, former senator
[12:37] from Wyoming, is national chairman of
[12:39] the Forbes campaign. William Bennett,
[12:42] former Reagan Bush cabinet official, was
[12:44] was national chairman of the Alexander
[12:46] campaign. And Gary Bower, also a veteran
[12:48] of the Reagan administration, is head of
[12:50] the Family Research Council and American
[12:52] Renewal, a conservative think tank.
[12:54] Welcome, gentlemen. Bill Bennett, since
[12:57] you no longer have a dog in this fight,
[12:58] let me start with you. Today, Pep
[13:00] Buchanan said that he thought Senator
[13:02] Dole's nomination now seemed inevitable.
[13:05] Do you think it is?
[13:07] >> Probably. Uh, yes, I think it is. Uh, if
[13:09] you look at the numbers that he's piling
[13:11] those numbers up pretty pretty pretty
[13:13] well right now, pretty effectively. Amar
[13:15] Alexander's endorsement will help if one
[13:17] assumes most of Alexander's supporters
[13:19] go to Dole. That's just uh that's just a
[13:21] greater number. We'll see in what
[13:23] happens in New York and on, but it looks
[13:25] as if uh Republicans are saying in
[13:27] pretty strong numbers they want Bob D.
[13:29] >> Malcolm Wallup, how do you think the
[13:31] last 24 hours have left this campaign?
[13:34] >> Well, it's as previous sort of 24-hour
[13:38] periods with uh now Bob Dole up for a
[13:41] little while. He was down and and my
[13:44] candidate Steve Forbes was up and early
[13:46] on Pat Buchanan was up. I I don't
[13:49] believe that it's over and Steve Forbes
[13:51] doesn't believe that it's over and we
[13:53] secured the endorsement of a leading
[13:56] American conservative colleague of Bill
[13:58] Bennett's Jack Kemp today. So, uh our
[14:01] view the race is not over nor do we feel
[14:03] that it should be.
[14:05] >> Vin Weber, do you think that at this
[14:07] point Pat Buchanan or Steve Forbes can
[14:09] deny this nomination to Bob Dole?
[14:11] >> No, I think that Bob Dole has
[14:13] effectively won the nomination unless he
[14:15] makes some huge unexpected error. The
[14:17] question at this point is will the rep
[14:19] Republican party unite behind Senator
[14:21] Dole early enough, quickly enough, and
[14:23] thoroughly enough to give us the maximum
[14:25] chance of defeating Bill Clinton. Look,
[14:27] we had a long well-contested fight for
[14:29] the Republican nomination. Candidates
[14:31] across the spectrum from every region of
[14:33] the country, they challenged Dole in
[14:35] every conceivable way. At some point,
[14:36] the party has to look at its own
[14:38] interests and say, "All right, we've
[14:40] winnowed the field really down to one
[14:42] effective candidate. We that's where we
[14:43] are today. We're going to nominate
[14:45] Senator Dole for president. Will we
[14:46] nominate him as a strong leader who can
[14:49] unite the party and beat Bill Clinton or
[14:51] are we going to continue to nitpick him
[14:52] all the way to San Diego? That's the
[14:54] question.
[14:54] >> Well, Gary Bower, Pep Buchanan has said
[14:56] though that he's going to stay in this
[14:57] all the way to San Diego. What do you
[14:59] you have not endorsed him, but you are
[15:01] often advocating his policy positions.
[15:04] What do you think he really wants at
[15:05] this point?
[15:06] >> Well, I think Pat all along has been
[15:08] interested in where the Republican party
[15:10] is on a host of issues. Uh I think he
[15:13] has been very specific about the social
[15:15] issues uh the sanctity of human life a
[15:17] feeling that the party has devoted a lot
[15:19] of rhetoric to those things but really
[15:21] hasn't done much policy-wise and of
[15:23] course this whole galaxy of issues about
[15:25] the economic anxiety that workingass and
[15:28] middle class families feel in America.
[15:30] Uh I believe that Pat probably will stay
[15:32] in the race because he wants those
[15:34] things to be on the agenda. And you
[15:35] know, Margaret, I actually think that
[15:37] Forbes and Buchanan being in the race
[15:40] improves Bob Dole's chances because it
[15:43] makes him sharpen his message. It makes
[15:45] him deal with issues that I think the
[15:47] American people care desperately about.
[15:49] And a party like ours shouldn't want to
[15:50] fold things up in early March. My
[15:53] goodness, we got a long time for these
[15:54] things to be debated.
[15:55] >> You're shaking your head.
[15:56] >> Well, I I I like Gary. I think Pat has a
[15:58] right to stay in the race. Gary, there's
[16:00] absolutely no historical precedent for
[16:03] what you're saying. It's very clear from
[16:04] all modern history when a party has to
[16:06] fight all the way to the convention. It
[16:08] doesn't strengthen the front runner.
[16:09] Kennedy did not strengthen Carter.
[16:11] Buchanan did not strengthen Bush. I mean
[16:13] it the parties Pat and Steve have a
[16:16] right to do whatever they want to do.
[16:17] But we as Republicans who care about
[16:19] electing a president ought to be ready
[16:20] to say no. It's over. It's time to unite
[16:23] behind Bob Dole. That's the way we can
[16:24] run.
[16:25] >> I think there I think there are millions
[16:26] of Republican voters that still want a
[16:28] chance to vote in primaries with a
[16:30] choice instead of having it decided in
[16:31] Washington that the race is over. Let me
[16:33] let um both Bill Bennett and Malcolm
[16:34] Wallup weigh in on this point of whether
[16:36] it strengthens the ultimate nominee for
[16:39] this fight to continue and have Buchanan
[16:40] stay in the race or not.
[16:42] >> Sure it is. And we ought not to be
[16:44] coronating Bob Dole. I mean this is
[16:46] after all an election an election in
[16:49] which he tried very hard to keep any
[16:52] choice for New York Republicans off the
[16:54] ballot. We believe that that Steve
[16:56] Forbes has a message that is is resonant
[16:59] in in this country. Then Bomb Dole will
[17:02] either have to embrace some of it or
[17:04] contest the reason why we ought not to
[17:05] have a progrowth uh future oriented
[17:09] presidency as the goal of the Republican
[17:12] party.
[17:13] >> Bill Bennett, what do you see as the
[17:14] impact of the continued Buchanan and
[17:16] Forbes candidacies?
[17:18] >> Well, you're you're always making a
[17:19] record for the opposition. You're always
[17:21] making a record for Bill Clinton uh to
[17:23] pick up uh when we get into the general
[17:25] election. Um Pat Buchanan has been I
[17:28] think quite good in saying he will
[17:29] support the nominee of the party. It now
[17:31] looks as if Bob Dole is the nominee of
[17:32] the party and Pat Buchanan admits that.
[17:34] Will Pat Buchanan stop talking about Bob
[17:36] Dole as the bellhop of the business
[17:38] round table and these other things? If
[17:40] we hear that on and on for weeks and
[17:41] weeks and months and months I don't
[17:43] think it'll help. I mean Pat Buchanan
[17:44] whatever I think of his views and I'm
[17:46] quite critical of his views is a very
[17:48] effective puncher. Uh he he punches he
[17:51] draws blood. uh he drew blood from
[17:53] George Bush and he can draw blood from
[17:55] Bob Dole and uh he wants to think about
[17:57] he needs to think about the implications
[17:59] of his actions. Again, he has every
[18:01] right to stay in, but would you want a
[18:03] very a docel Pat Buchanan in this race
[18:06] who who wasn't punching away? I don't
[18:08] think so. That wouldn't be Pat Buchanan.
[18:10] So, if he stays in, is he really going
[18:12] to do Bob Dole any good?
[18:13] >> Gary Bar, do you think there's something
[18:15] concrete though he wants? I mean the the
[18:17] abortion the the abortion plank and the
[18:20] Republican platform something concrete.
[18:22] >> Oh absolutely. I mean I think these are
[18:24] very concrete things. I I think he wants
[18:26] a clear commitment from Bob Dole or or
[18:29] the party in general that it will not
[18:31] just give lip service to these social
[18:33] issues but that it will really try to
[18:35] push policy for these things. I think he
[18:37] wants the platform to be absolutely
[18:39] clear about these matters. And I think
[18:41] you know I don't want to leave out these
[18:43] these issues of economic anxiety. I
[18:46] think they're important issues. I think
[18:47] Bob Dole is beginning to address them. I
[18:49] don't think the Republican party can win
[18:52] unless it has a growth message that also
[18:54] deals with the feelings of millions of
[18:56] middle class and workingclass Americans.
[18:58] I think if Pat Buchanan thought the
[19:00] party got that message that he would be
[19:02] much more likely to re-evaluate what
[19:04] he's going to do as we get closer to the
[19:06] convention.
[19:08] >> He he has not had a growth message. In
[19:11] fact, it has been a protectionist
[19:13] message. And
[19:15] the the contrast between Steve Forbes
[19:17] and Pat Buchanan is while they're very
[19:18] similar on on the social issues. On the
[19:21] issues of of growth and jobs, we we have
[19:24] the feeling that America has never been
[19:26] able to create jobs or protect them
[19:28] through government and only you don't
[19:30] have downsizing when the country is
[19:32] growing and nobody's calling for growth.
[19:34] Let me except Steve Forbes. Let
[19:35] >> Bob Dole's surrogate here weigh in on
[19:37] this. How are you going to satisfy both
[19:39] of these? We're at the whining and
[19:41] nitpicking stage of this campaign. When
[19:43] you talk about economic reform and
[19:44] economic growth, Bob Dole along with N.
[19:47] Gingrich was responsible for forming and
[19:49] choosing Jack Kemp as the head of the
[19:51] tax commission that has really set in
[19:53] motion the supply side reform of the tax
[19:55] code. For this, uh, he gets Jack Kemp
[19:57] endorsing Steve Forbes for president,
[19:59] which I totally don't understand. But to
[20:01] suggest that Dole has not been been
[20:03] taking substantive as opposed to
[20:05] rhetorical steps to put growth economics
[20:08] on the platform of the in platform of
[20:10] the Republican party and on the agenda
[20:11] for this campaign is simply not fair.
[20:13] Look at what looking at what this this
[20:15] leader has done for us.
[20:16] >> Look look, Senator Dole is a great guy,
[20:18] Vin, but when he says in New Hampshire
[20:20] he didn't realize economic issues were
[20:22] going to be a major factor in the New
[20:24] Hampshire.
[20:25] >> That's not what he said. That's not
[20:26] fair.
[20:26] >> Well, whatever he said, it's hard to put
[20:28] aside. said he said he didn't realize
[20:29] that trade was going to dominate the New
[20:31] Hampshire primary in the final days of
[20:33] the camp.
[20:33] >> He said economic
[20:34] >> Let me ask you all this given these
[20:36] differences. I mean then how does Bob
[20:38] Dole handle in the coming months the
[20:41] continued Buchanan and Forbes
[20:42] candidacies? Oh, I you know certainly he
[20:46] has to speak as the whole Republican
[20:48] party does to the concerns raised by Pat
[20:50] Buchanan about joblessness in in in
[20:53] industries affected by trade and
[20:55] certainly he ought to address Steve
[20:57] Forb's concerns about growth. But but
[20:59] essentially he's won the nomination
[21:01] because he is the Republican candidate
[21:03] that can unite the party. No one is
[21:05] suggesting that either of these other
[21:06] candidates have any chance at all of
[21:07] uniting their
[21:08] >> Let me ask Malcolm Wallop to weigh in on
[21:10] that. Do you have does Steve Forbes have
[21:12] a plausible scenario for winning this
[21:14] thing? What is the scenario for winning
[21:15] it?
[21:15] >> Well, we do. We uh we believe that we'll
[21:18] be very very competitive in Texas and
[21:20] Florida. And if that is the case, uh
[21:22] then in the Midwest states uh and and on
[21:25] to California, there is a 996 scenario
[21:28] which we find uh within our campaign
[21:31] structure plentiful. And Bob Dole, keep
[21:33] in mind, has a contract with American
[21:35] taxpayer that says that he has only $37
[21:39] million to spend and he's virtually
[21:41] spent it all. Now, that's his fault and
[21:43] his choice, but we believe that we have
[21:45] a competitive message to give out that
[21:47] is resonating and has resonated in
[21:50] certain elections with the American
[21:51] people. is not whining as Vince
[21:53] suggests. It is an alternative to a
[21:55] campaign that has yet to put any real
[21:58] structural proposals on the table as
[22:00] compos as compared with Steve Forbes.
[22:02] >> And Senator Wallup, is Steve Forbes
[22:04] committed to go all the way to San Diego
[22:06] fighting this?
[22:07] >> I have heard nothing to the contrary of
[22:09] that and his public statements have all
[22:10] been in in in that direction. Uh so I I
[22:14] would have to guess at this moment that
[22:15] that's his intention. Well, my concern I
[22:17] mean my candidate Lamar Alexander Fred
[22:20] dropped out raised some worries about
[22:22] the Dole candidacy. But he said today,
[22:24] "Look, the American people are choosing
[22:25] Bob Dole. Let's get behind him." The
[22:28] question now is how people spend their
[22:30] time. I think he can make a very good
[22:31] case instead of Bob Dole having to fight
[22:34] rear guard actions and side actions. It
[22:35] would be very good for a lot of us,
[22:37] including Gary Bower, Malcolm Wallop,
[22:39] uh, all of us to get together and start
[22:41] to think about how we beat Bill Clinton.
[22:43] Uh and I think there is some concern
[22:45] among Republicans genuinely honestly
[22:47] about Bob Dole's candidacy against Bill
[22:49] Clinton. Bob Dole in a debate. Well then
[22:51] the task there it seems to me ought to
[22:52] be to help as much as people can to try
[22:54] to make the arguments to try to get
[22:56] everybody together going in the same
[22:57] direction on this. Again people have
[22:59] perfect right to stay and it's a
[23:00] different argument. I mean to be fair to
[23:01] Gary it's it's a different argument to
[23:04] say look he wants to keep Buchanan or
[23:06] someone wants to keep issues in front of
[23:08] the American people wants to be sure
[23:09] they're part of the platform and that's
[23:11] certainly legitimate but I think how
[23:13] people conduct themselves the way they
[23:15] make their arguments over the next
[23:16] couple of months what they say about Bob
[23:18] Dol everything is being recorded folks
[23:21] that's being said about Bob
[23:22] >> D it is but one one it's hard to to say
[23:25] that Pat Buchanan's been the one that
[23:28] has has been the problem here I mean
[23:29] some of the things said about him have
[23:30] been unbelievable by some of the folks
[23:32] on this panel. But but look, let me just
[23:34] say if if everybody tones down the
[23:36] personal rhetoric and discusses the
[23:38] issues facing the party, the party has
[23:40] got to be better off because of that and
[23:42] to not let Republicans in states like
[23:44] California have a chance to vote on a
[23:47] choice for the nomination, I think is
[23:49] just silly.
[23:50] >> Let me quickly ask before we go, what
[23:52] impact are these various endorsements
[23:53] from today going to have? Um, Bill
[23:56] Bennett, how about the Kemp endorsement
[23:58] and the Alexander and Luger
[23:59] endorsements? So, I mean, do voters
[24:00] really follow figures like this?
[24:02] >> Well, some some do. Um, I think a lot of
[24:05] the Alexander voters will get behind
[24:07] Dole the Kemp endorsement. I um I don't
[24:10] I don't know. Obviously, pleasing to
[24:12] Forbes that it I'm still sorting this
[24:14] one out, so I don't I don't know.
[24:15] >> What do you think these endorsements
[24:16] mean?
[24:16] >> I I think I think Luger and Alexander
[24:19] have made the logical case. It's time to
[24:20] get behind Senator Dole. I don't
[24:22] understand that. You know, you know, I
[24:24] have to say Jack Kemp, who is my dear
[24:26] friend as he is all of us, referenced
[24:28] David Donald's book on Lincoln today in
[24:29] endorsing forms. That's a misuse of
[24:31] Lincoln. If you read that book, the
[24:32] person that he described as Lincoln, is
[24:34] much closer to to Bob Dole, an
[24:36] experienced politician, a very skillful
[24:39] coalition builder, very concerned about
[24:41] party politics, nothing of of the
[24:43] outsider trashing all the party
[24:45] leadership in the course of things. It
[24:47] was just a mistake on Jack's part, but
[24:49] it's not going to have any impact.
[24:50] >> But let me ask you this. Jack Kemp did
[24:52] say today that he was not going to
[24:54] endorse until Dole campaign sent in
[24:57] surrogates into New York to criticize
[24:58] the flat tax. Do you think that was a
[25:00] mistake?
[25:01] >> Yeah, sure. Of course it was a mistake.
[25:02] I mean, you know, essentially I I just
[25:04] come back. Essentially, we've had the
[25:06] real hard-fought contests in the
[25:09] Republican primary fight. I wasn't sure
[25:11] a few weeks ago if Bob Dole was going to
[25:12] win the nomination or if Papuchan was
[25:14] going to surge or Forbes take off or
[25:16] Lamar Alexander come from behind. But
[25:18] now we know the answer to that question.
[25:20] And the question really facing the
[25:22] Republican party is are we going to help
[25:23] elect Bob Dole president or aren't we?
[25:26] >> Malcolm Mullup, do you think you're
[25:27] going to can you count on getting a
[25:29] sizable number of the Alexander and
[25:31] Luger supporters?
[25:32] >> Well, we certainly want to attract them
[25:34] and and we want to attract Buchanan
[25:36] voters as well, but let me just correct
[25:38] Vin. Lincoln did not come to Washington
[25:41] knowing anybody in Washington or even
[25:42] the positions in the cabinet. He had
[25:45] been nowhere in the country, nowhere
[25:47] abroad. That's not the point. The point
[25:50] is that that the Republican party cannot
[25:53] help but benefit by a thorough debate of
[25:56] where it goes. I have no worry about us
[25:59] getting behind the candidate in the end.
[26:01] Then Bill Clinton is going to do uh with
[26:03] his money what
[26:06] Vin is worried about Republicans doing
[26:08] uh by contesting Republican ideas. Bill
[26:10] Clinton will shoot at Bob Dole if he's
[26:12] the nominee and everybody drops out from
[26:14] now to San Diego and there'll be no way
[26:16] for Dole to shoot back on your
[26:19] endorsement question. I I think the
[26:20] endorsement game is the politics of the
[26:22] past. I I think America is in such
[26:24] turmoil politically these days that that
[26:27] whether somebody's endorsed the
[26:28] candidate or not means very little.
[26:30] People are looking for ideas or looking
[26:32] for a vision for the future and
[26:33] ultimately the candidate that does that
[26:35] is going to win. Uh Vin Weber, uh quick
[26:38] prediction tomorrow in the New York
[26:40] primary.
[26:40] >> It's going to be a big win for Bob Dole.
[26:42] >> How big?
[26:44] >> Uh I I I would say I think he'll beat
[26:47] the combined vote of Buchanan and and
[26:49] Forbes. I think
[26:50] >> and Malcolm Wallup.
[26:52] >> I I don't believe that to be the case. I
[26:54] think that uh Forbes may be a strong
[26:56] second, keeping in mind that it's been
[26:57] very difficult for Forbes voters to find
[27:00] their people on the ballot. the rep the
[27:02] uh hierarchical structure of Republicans
[27:04] in New York having seen fit to try to
[27:06] keep uh any competition off the
[27:08] >> Senator. Thanks. I'm sorry. We'll have
[27:10] to leave it there, but thank you all
[27:11] very much. We'll be back.
[27:13] >> Still to come on the NewsHour tonight,
[27:15] analysis of the Republicans big day and
[27:18] a Roger Rosenblad essay. But first, this
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[32:09] Now, I've got something else for you.
[32:10] Enjoy an evening with Rick Steves.
[32:12] That's public television's popular host
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[32:36] Travels in Europe and Europe 101, which
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[32:40] And of course, both of the books are
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[38:58] Now we return to the events of the last
[39:00] 24 hours within the Republican
[39:02] presidential race and to some analysis
[39:04] by Shields and Jiggo. Syndicated
[39:06] columnist Mark Shields, Wall Street
[39:08] Journal columnist Paul Jigo, joined
[39:09] tonight by William Crystal, editor and
[39:11] publisher of the weekly standard of
[39:13] conservative magazine. Paul, picking up
[39:15] on some of the things that uh that we
[39:18] just heard in the discussion a few
[39:19] minutes ago, this question about whether
[39:22] or not Forbes and Buchanan staying in
[39:24] the race helps Dole in the long run. Yes
[39:27] or no?
[39:27] >> I guess it depends on how long the long
[39:29] run is. Uh Jim, I mean, if they continue
[39:31] to hit him from the flanks all the way
[39:34] to San Diego, I think that there's a
[39:36] problem. No question about it.
[39:37] Particularly if it moves Dole in the
[39:40] wrong direction on some issues. Uh, I
[39:42] think that if, for example, the Forbes
[39:44] candidacy would help Bob Dole to forge a
[39:47] genuine economic message, one aimed at
[39:51] the concerns that Pat Buchanan raised
[39:53] about middle class incomes and going at
[39:55] a an issue that President Clinton is
[39:57] weak on potentially the economy. I think
[40:00] that would be useful. Otherwise, uh, you
[40:02] know, it could be a demolition derby.
[40:04] >> Yeah, demolition derby. That's of course
[40:05] what Vin Vin Weber was saying, Bill
[40:07] Crystal, that if if if Pat Buchanan and
[40:10] Steve Forbes continue to beat up daily
[40:12] on Bob Dole. That his his position is
[40:15] that could not be helpful. How do you
[40:16] feel about that?
[40:17] >> I'm not sure it does very much damage.
[40:18] If Bob Dole wins Tuesday after Tuesday
[40:21] for the next six weeks, they can beat up
[40:22] on him all they want. I don't know the
[40:24] voters are going to pay much attention.
[40:26] And if they got out, I don't know they
[40:27] would help Bob Dole that much. It seems
[40:28] to me Bob Dole has to make himself a
[40:30] better candidate. He has to do a better
[40:32] job of articulating what he would do as
[40:34] president. all the familiar complaints
[40:35] that Republicans make about Bob Dole,
[40:37] but his fate's in his own hand. And I I
[40:39] actually don't think it makes much
[40:40] difference what others now say about
[40:42] him. I think his performance now is key.
[40:44] >> It's a matter of pure politics. If he
[40:46] continues to beat these guys at the
[40:48] polls Tuesday after Tuesday, Mark, that
[40:50] helps him too. Then
[40:51] >> Tuesday night at the fights, another
[40:52] victory for Bob Dole, another notch on
[40:54] the gun. Worked for Michael Dukakus in
[40:56] 1988 as he was beating Jesse Jackson
[40:58] every Tuesday. State after state,
[41:00] decisive margins. uh led him into
[41:04] Atlanta convention in 1988 with a
[41:05] 16-point lead over Vice President Bush.
[41:08] Jim, this race I would say that the case
[41:10] can be made very strongly that Bob Dole
[41:12] would be well served by both Patrick Ken
[41:14] and and Steve Forbstein in the race for
[41:16] a very simple reason. From the beginning
[41:17] of 1995 all the way through the Iowa and
[41:20] New Hampshire caucuses, this race was
[41:22] about to determine who would become the
[41:24] nondolele candidate. The non-doll out of
[41:27] that whole pack. Finally, it emerged.
[41:29] was Pat Buchanan who finished second in
[41:31] Iowa then first in New Hampshire. Once
[41:33] Buchanan emerged then the contest became
[41:37] who was going to be the anti Buchanan
[41:38] candidate. Bob Dole was sharper, better,
[41:41] more focused and more disciplined after
[41:43] New Hampshire than he had been at any
[41:45] point in the entire 16 months before
[41:47] that. Do you agree, Paul, that what
[41:50] helped Dole do what he did last night
[41:53] when eight had as much to do with people
[41:55] saying, "Hey, it's Buchanan we got to
[41:58] get more than positive things about
[42:00] Dole."
[42:00] >> I think there was a big element of stop
[42:02] Buchanan in there. One of the striking
[42:04] things about the exit polling yesterday
[42:05] was that the Dole went among
[42:07] self-professed conservatives rather
[42:09] handily. I think there were a lot of
[42:11] Republicans who defined themselves as
[42:13] conservative who didn't want their
[42:14] conservatism to be find to be defined by
[42:18] Pat Buchanan and a lot of the party
[42:20] moved to coales and say we've got to
[42:22] stop him and the institutions even
[42:24] including the lot on the religious right
[42:26] decided that they needed to make a
[42:28] pragmatic choice not just a send a
[42:30] message choice and that helped Bob Dolan
[42:32] off a lot. Bill Crystal, why was
[42:34] Buchanan not able to build on his on
[42:37] what happened in Iowa and then most
[42:39] particularly in New Hampshire?
[42:41] >> Well, it turned out that he really can't
[42:43] get more than 30% of the vote in
[42:44] Republican primaries across the country.
[42:47] He's got a cap of support at 30% and it
[42:50] turned out that Bob Dole was able to
[42:51] rally the other 70% of the voters
[42:53] increasingly to him. But at the end of
[42:55] the day, one has to say that Bob Dole
[42:57] was lucky in who he ended up with as his
[42:59] two final opponents. And I I say this
[43:01] meaning no disrespect to Steve Forbes or
[43:03] Pep Buchanan, but they are two
[43:04] journalists. I say that meaning no
[43:06] disrespect to journalists here in this
[43:07] also be very dangerous here. Move right
[43:09] along.
[43:11] >> Neither, you know, I mean, just in a
[43:12] simple matter of way, neither
[43:13] >> editor and publisher. Yeah.
[43:16] >> Yeah.
[43:17] I'm leaving. Neither neither's neither's
[43:19] ever been elected to anything. Neither
[43:21] at the end of the day, I think, was
[43:23] really a credible nominee for the
[43:24] Republican party. Uh, and if you had
[43:26] told Bob Dole a year ago, your your two
[43:28] finalists are not going to be Pete
[43:29] Graham and Phil Phil Graham or Pete
[43:32] Wilson or even Lamar Alexander and Dick
[43:34] Luger, but two people who've never won
[43:36] an election. I think he would say, I'll
[43:37] take those odds. And that's really what
[43:39] happened. I think
[43:39] >> Mark, you said on this program, you also
[43:41] wrote a syndicated column which said
[43:43] that uh that essentially Buchanan blew
[43:45] it. He got he had the attention after
[43:46] New Hampshire and he went into his black
[43:48] hat and gun over the head routine and he
[43:51] he may have rallied his base, but he
[43:53] scared everybody else off. You still
[43:55] believe that?
[43:55] >> I do, Jim. I think that I really think
[43:57] that if the results in Arizona had been
[43:59] different, it changes the entire dynamic
[44:01] of the race. I mean, this is this is a
[44:03] race once it left Iowa and New
[44:05] Hampshire, which were retail states
[44:06] where I mean, which if I were a
[44:08] Republican, I'd be deeply concerned with
[44:09] Bob Dole. Bob Dole went into both states
[44:11] and lost 30 points on on sustained
[44:14] unsustained exposure in in an
[44:16] adversarial setting where the the race
[44:18] was just there. He did very well in
[44:20] wholesale states where he just did
[44:22] tarmac shots at the airport and was
[44:24] running on name recognition and local
[44:25] support and sort of a a generalized
[44:27] message. I think if Pat Buchanan had had
[44:30] shown some other than that self-
[44:32] congratulatory self-indulgence of going
[44:34] out to New H to Arizona wearing the
[44:36] black hat and just kind of rubbing his
[44:38] everybody's nose in his victory. Uh I
[44:41] think it may very well it was a very
[44:42] close outcome in Arizona in in 1996. Let
[44:45] me add I also Mark is making the point
[44:48] that Pat Buchanan was a flawed messenger
[44:50] and I think he's right. But he also had
[44:52] a flawed message for Republican
[44:53] primaries. I think that his
[44:54] protectionism in South Carolina proved
[44:57] to backfire on him. Bob Dole went around
[44:59] to not to the plants that were closing
[45:01] but to the BMW plants that were opening
[45:03] and adding jobs. Took the issue on
[45:04] headon as Lamar Alexander tried to do
[45:07] and proved again that protectionism is
[45:09] the fool's gold of American politics. It
[45:11] always looks great because you play the
[45:13] economic nationalism card, but when
[45:15] people get right up to their jobs and
[45:16] their livelihoods for especially for a
[45:18] president running for a national office
[45:20] and the national interest, it always
[45:22] fails. Bill Crystal, before you became
[45:25] an editor and a publisher, you were a
[45:26] Republican insider. Explain the Jack
[45:29] Jack Kemp thing today. And he does it on
[45:31] the day after Bob Dole has looks like
[45:35] he's an inevitable winner. What
[45:37] happened? What's going on? Uh, well, I'm
[45:39] I'm was mystified as as everyone else. I
[45:41] I mean, I think he was offended that Bob
[45:43] Dole didn't take his Kemp Jack Kemp's
[45:45] tax commission report more seriously and
[45:47] indeed that Bob Dole became a pretty
[45:49] strong critic of Steve Forbes's flat
[45:51] tax, which Jack Kemp, which is very
[45:52] similar to the kind of flat tax that
[45:54] Jack Kemp has endorsed. It is amazing
[45:56] though, if you had said a year ago that
[45:58] if you had said Steve Forbes was going
[46:00] to endorse Jack Kemp's presidential bid,
[46:01] we all would have said, "Well, that
[46:02] makes sense." But for Jack Kemp to be
[46:04] going to endorse Steve Forbes's bid and
[46:06] then to do it the day after Forbes loses
[46:08] eight primaries to Bob Dole is a little
[46:10] odd. It's a little bit like, you know,
[46:11] signing up with Napoleon the day after
[46:13] Waterloo or something. It's funny
[46:15] timing.
[46:16] >> Do you have an explanation, sir?
[46:17] >> I I I I I some of what Bill says I think
[46:20] is right. Uh Jack Kemp was on the fence
[46:22] on this for weeks. The Forbes campaign
[46:24] was trying to get him. The Dole campaign
[46:26] his whole
[46:26] >> point out that Steve Forbes and Jack
[46:28] Kemp go back a long way. They're close
[46:30] friends. They're also political friends
[46:31] and and ideological friends on issues,
[46:34] right, for a long time.
[46:35] >> Oh, absolutely. Uh Steve Forbes, in
[46:37] fact, is I think involved in financing
[46:39] empower America, which is Jack Kemp's
[46:41] think tank here in Washington.
[46:42] >> And said if Kemp had run, he would not
[46:44] have run.
[46:44] >> He would not have run. That's correct.
[46:46] Fitch was trying to fill
[46:47] >> make sure everybody understood that.
[46:48] >> He was trying to fill the Kemp vacuum
[46:50] within the party, his performance here.
[46:51] I mean, he made Hamlet look impulsive
[46:53] the way he sat on the fence uh on all
[46:55] this stuff. But I think Bill is right.
[46:57] He was he was offended. He was offended
[47:00] when Bob Dole goes up in New York and
[47:01] has got a 30-point lead over everybody
[47:03] and goes up and starts saying there's be
[47:04] going to be a revolution in Buffalo if
[47:06] the flat tax, the Forbes flat tax
[47:08] passes. And he was offended for weeks
[47:10] that the Dole campaign was really
[47:12] trashing not just the messenger in Steve
[47:14] Forbes but the message a Republican
[47:16] growth message. And if Bob Dole had had
[47:19] taken that message to heart, I think um
[47:21] what happened today would not have
[47:23] happened.
[47:23] >> You have an analysis, sir?
[47:24] >> I do. G I thought Gary Ba made a good
[47:27] point in on the previous segment with
[47:28] Margaret and that is that in
[47:30] endorsements in American politics get a
[47:33] lot more attention than they deserve. Uh
[47:35] it is we don't deliver groceries in the
[47:37] United States anymore. We barely deliver
[47:39] milk and mail. Nobody delivers votes. Uh
[47:42] I for South Carolina
[47:44] >> the first the first no the first
[47:46] election the first election I I voted in
[47:48] was the 1960 presidential election and
[47:50] Jack Kemp today reminded me of Governor
[47:52] Bob Miner of New Jersey who was the
[47:54] being imported by John Kennedy who was
[47:57] fearful that he would not get it except
[47:58] on the first ballot and Miner resisted
[48:01] all of the importunings of Kennedy and
[48:03] then he sent word after all the
[48:05] cajolerie that he would be with Kennedy
[48:07] on the second ballot. Teddy said she's
[48:09] with me more and more. I need him less
[48:10] and less, you know, and that's I mean
[48:12] that that's exactly, you know, what what
[48:14] I think in the in in this in this one. I
[48:16] mean, nicest Senator Luger and Governor
[48:19] Alexander, but you know, Jack Jack Kemp
[48:22] did one favor for Steve Forbes and that
[48:23] is all the news was good news for Bob
[48:26] Dole and Steve Forbes was dying. He was
[48:28] suffocating and nothing but do good
[48:30] news. So, it gave him a lead on today's
[48:32] story. So it did was on the second day
[48:34] of
[48:34] >> in fact when the announcement was made
[48:37] earlier in the day that that Forbes was
[48:39] going to have an important announcement
[48:41] in the news everybody assumed that he
[48:44] was going to withdraw and I mean that's
[48:46] where that's where the the state of mind
[48:48] was. Now what does it what does it do
[48:49] politically uh for Forbes do you think
[48:52] the end
[48:53] >> not much I think Steve Forbes will
[48:54] probably withdraw a week from now after
[48:56] he loses New York Thursday and then
[48:58] loses the Super Tuesday states next
[49:00] Tuesday. So I think uh the Kemp Forbes
[49:02] Alliance might just be a week long in
[49:04] this in this campaign.
[49:05] >> What about the point uh the the overall
[49:07] point that Men Weber made a few moments
[49:09] ago, Paul, which is that look, the point
[49:12] comes when the Republican party must
[49:14] rally around its nominee. He says the
[49:17] point arrived last night. Uh do you
[49:20] agree?
[49:21] >> Well, it was certainly as decisive a win
[49:24] as I can recall in the primaries. I
[49:26] mean, it was 8 and0 and it was a flush
[49:28] across the board and decisive in every
[49:30] single state. Unless one of these two
[49:33] men can come back and in in invoke one
[49:36] of the largest cases of buyer's remorse
[49:38] that I've ever seen uh in the next
[49:41] couple of weeks, then I think the case
[49:42] becomes very very weak for
[49:44] >> you want to see the magic and the power
[49:46] of Pat Buchanan. Pat Buchanan's
[49:48] candidacy has led my good friend Paul to
[49:50] discover previously unnoticed virtues in
[49:53] Bob Dole. He's
[49:55] It's really remarkable. I mean, now Dole
[49:57] belongs on Mount Rushmore. We're
[49:59] learning because when did I say that?
[50:01] >> Because he's the guy because he's the
[50:02] guy who was not he was not Buchanan.
[50:04] >> Mark Mark's found all these virtues in
[50:06] Pat Buchanan. It's charming. You know,
[50:08] >> I think endorsements don't matter.
[50:09] Endorsements don't matter much, but I
[50:11] think the Shields endorsement of
[50:12] Buchanan could still make a difference
[50:13] in the Super Tuesday. Pat Buchanan did
[50:16] for the Republicans in 1996 was what
[50:18] Paul Songis did for the Democrats in
[50:20] 1992 when he talked about balanced
[50:22] budget. and that is he gave them a
[50:23] chance to talk to a constituency that
[50:25] they hadn't been able to talk to and
[50:27] Republicans since Ronald Reagan have not
[50:29] been able to talk to blueco collar
[50:30] workers and that's what that he gave
[50:32] them that opening I'm not saying he
[50:34] delivered it but he was the only one the
[50:35] very fact that the New York Times is
[50:37] devoting several thousand trees and
[50:40] 55,000 words to this subject of
[50:43] downsizing of layoffs of the declining
[50:45] American future has nothing to do with
[50:46] with you can call it protectionism what
[50:48] you want it's a question that the free
[50:50] market has left an awful lot of people
[50:52] out and it's and a lot of people are
[50:54] hurting in this country.
[50:55] >> One uh one of many people we have not
[50:57] discussed thus far was Lamar Alexander.
[50:59] Bill Crystal, what happened? Why didn't
[51:00] he catch on?
[51:01] >> Well, he never quite got over the hump
[51:03] uh as as the alternative to Dole. I
[51:05] think in fact if 5,000 votes had gone
[51:07] differently in New Hampshire if he had
[51:08] run second in New Hampshire and Dole had
[51:10] been third. He would really have had a
[51:12] chance then to say Dole's unbelievably
[51:14] weak. We can't nominate Buchanan. I'm
[51:16] the alternative to Buchanan. He ran
[51:18] third in New Hampshire. uh he having run
[51:20] third in Iowa, he just was never able to
[51:22] beat Dole anywhere. Uh and then the
[51:24] speeded up process, by the time it was a
[51:25] week later, he'd already run fourth in
[51:27] other states and he was pretty much
[51:28] finished. We're talking about 2,000
[51:31] 4,000 votes in some of these states. It
[51:32] was a very close run thing. And Lamar
[51:34] Alexander went came closer than a lot of
[51:36] people ever thought he would. But I also
[51:39] think he suffered a little bit from the
[51:40] Republican reaction to Bill Clinton
[51:42] because they saw in Lamar Alexander and
[51:44] many Republicans did an authenticity
[51:46] problem running as the outsider when
[51:48] he'd been such an insider for so long.
[51:51] Another southern governor who's very
[51:52] good on his feet who we really don't
[51:54] know who he is. And I think that hurt
[51:56] him when he was trying to dislodge Bob
[51:58] Dole as the anti-buchanic candidate.
[52:00] >> Also, Republicans like coats of ties,
[52:03] not those plaid plaid shirts. That's a
[52:04] Democrat. That's Democrat. The red the
[52:07] red shirts. Okay. Okay. Well, gentlemen,
[52:08] well, thank you very much all three.
[52:21] Finally, tonight, SAS Roger Rosenlad
[52:23] wonders whether reproduction hurts or
[52:25] helps a work of art.
[52:28] >> How shall we regain the use of our
[52:31] experience in the world of mass culture?
[52:33] Robert Warshaw, a critic for commentary
[52:35] magazine in the 1940s and 1950s, asked
[52:38] that question. It arises today in the
[52:41] context of a huge purchase.
[52:44] William H. Gates, Bill Gates, the
[52:46] chairman of the Microsoft Corporation,
[52:48] has recently bought the Batman Archives,
[52:51] perhaps the richest collection of
[52:53] photographs in the world. There are 17
[52:56] million pictures in the archive. Gates's
[52:59] intention is to translate the
[53:00] photographs into digital form and
[53:02] reproduce them into software for
[53:04] personal computers. This will provide a
[53:07] vast database available for everyone.
[53:11] And in fact, these famous Bman photos,
[53:13] John F. Kennedy Jr. saluting his
[53:15] father's casket as it passed in the
[53:17] funeral procession. The Vietnamese
[53:20] children scorched by napom running on a
[53:22] road were made for reproduction.
[53:26] Otto Elbman had that in mind when he
[53:28] fled Nazi Germany in 1935 carrying two
[53:31] trunks full of images. And ever since
[53:34] until Gates's purchase, his archive has
[53:37] provided photos for reproduction in
[53:39] magazines, newspapers, and on this
[53:41] screen.
[53:43] Now Gates comes along, raising both the
[53:45] amount of reproduced material and a
[53:47] problem in cultural appreciation. This
[53:49] thought was expressed by Edward
[53:51] Rothstein in a New York Times article,
[53:52] and it offers a real puzzle.
[53:55] Is there a point, asks Rothstein, beyond
[53:58] which the reproduction of works of art
[54:00] destroys the pleasure we take in them?
[54:03] We might add, does constant reproduction
[54:05] destroy the works of art themselves,
[54:07] make them less attractive, less art? How
[54:11] many times can we look at reproductions
[54:13] of Van Go's potato eaters, for instance,
[54:15] or of the Venus demo or of the Mona Lisa
[54:18] before they become visual cliches?
[54:22] After staring at Edward Hopper's diner a
[54:24] couple of hundred times, do we grow
[54:26] weary of searching the painting for
[54:27] something new and personal? Do we grow
[54:30] tired? Does the painting grow tired? To
[54:34] return to Robert Wshaw's question, how
[54:37] shall we regain the use of our
[54:38] experience in the world of mass culture?
[54:41] The question fundamentally is about the
[54:43] compatibility of culture and democracy.
[54:46] Unlike Renaissance Italy or Renaissance
[54:48] England, the American attitude towards
[54:50] works of art has always been. The more
[54:52] people who receive them, the better off
[54:53] they and the works of art will be.
[54:55] Bigger, wider, freer. In a sense, all
[54:58] American culture is popular culture.
[55:01] More art means equal art. Art for
[55:03] everybody. Behold the Bman archive.
[55:06] As soon as the photograph of the burning
[55:08] Hindenburg or the pointing Malcolm or
[55:11] the posing Betty is made for one, it is
[55:14] made for all. Photographs of US
[55:16] presidents or millionaires or
[55:18] scoundrels. The more the marrier, the
[55:20] more democratic. But when does this
[55:23] incessant democratic reproduction take
[55:25] the spirit and the meaning out of art?
[55:33] When does Beethoven's fifth repeated for
[55:36] the million and5th time begin to sound
[55:38] like a jingle?
[55:43] Mozart, who once had the reputation of a
[55:45] secret genius, now plays the backup
[55:47] music for ads and movies.
[55:50] Hamlet is old hat
[55:52] >> to be.
[55:52] >> And finally tonight, a local 911 hero
[55:54] gets sidetracked on his way to pick up a
[55:56] special award. Six-year-old Tyler Harper
[55:58] was due to receive an award tonight, but
[56:00] Mother Nature got in the way. A tree
[56:02] fell on his house right before tonight's
[56:04] ceremony. Tyler arrived a little late,
[56:06] but was quick to explain his absence
[56:10] >> because we had our our house broke.
[56:17] A tree fell on our house.
[56:19] >> There you go, Tyler. Once inside the
[56:21] Campus Four Square Church, Tyler
[56:23] received an award from the city for an
[56:24] excellent response in an emergency
[56:26] situation. Two weeks ago, Tyler's mother
[56:28] had a seizure and Tyler called 911.
[56:31] Paramedics say he also knew exactly
[56:33] where his mom kept her medicine and that
[56:35] helped them know how to treat her. Just
[56:37] call him Tyler Harper 911 hero. Now, if
[56:41] he can just get that tree off the house,
[56:42] we'll be in good shape.
[56:43] >> That would be great. Hey, we got time
[56:44] for a final look here with Matt.
[56:46] >> Yeah, let's bring him on in here.
[56:47] >> No big winds tomorrow. No big rains, but
[56:49] lots of clouds and some light rains,
[56:51] especially later in the day. We'll make
[56:52] it up to about 60°. Friday, more of the
[56:54] same. And then Saturday, Sunday, look
[56:56] for a rainy but mild weekend. We'll try
[56:59] to get some dry weather next week, which
[57:01] would be what, the last full week of
[57:02] winter.
[57:03] >> That'd be so. What do you think it's
[57:04] going to do July 30th?
[57:05] >> It'll be nice.
[57:06] >> Out of time. Good night, everybody.
[57:07] >> Thanks for watching Channel 2 News, the
[57:09] Northwest News leader. Tomorrow morning,
[57:12] join Dan Christopher and Janice Wyel for
[57:14] Channel 2 News this morning.