PBS NewsHour - 2008-10-16

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:09] Good evening. I'm Jim Lara. On the

[0:12] NewsHour Tonight, the news of this

[0:13] Thursday been the latest on how a weak

[0:16] US economy could affect the rest of the

[0:18] world. Today in the US presidential

[0:21] campaign, big picture voter reactions

[0:24] from New Mexico to last night's

[0:26] presidential debate. Plus, a look at the

[0:28] rhetoric and style differences between

[0:30] Barack Obama and John McCain.

[0:34] >> Major funding for the NewsHour with Jim

[0:37] Lara is provided by

[0:48] Pacific Life has been the power behind

[0:50] successful individuals for more than 140

[0:53] years. Pacific Life's strength includes

[0:56] assets exceeding $100 billion.

[0:59] So when it comes to planning for

[1:01] retirement, your financial professional

[1:03] and Pacific Life can help you reach your

[1:05] goals. Pacific Life, the power to help

[1:08] you succeed. With soaring energy prices

[1:12] and global climate change, there are

[1:14] good reasons for believing in wind. Wind

[1:17] energy is clean and plentiful and it

[1:19] answers the call for sustainable ways to

[1:22] create the electricity we need. We know

[1:24] because our sole focus is developing

[1:27] technology that uses the energy of the

[1:29] wind to generate electricity. America

[1:32] has some of the world's most abundant

[1:34] wind resources and Vestus is here to

[1:37] help harness them.

[1:41] Grant Thornton,

[1:45] Chevron

[1:50] the Atlantic Philanthropies

[1:54] and with the ongoing support of these

[1:56] institutions and foundations.

[2:02] And this program was made possible by

[2:05] the Corporation for Public Broadcasting

[2:08] and by contributions to your PBS station

[2:11] from viewers like you. Thank you.

[2:18] US stocks rebounded today after another

[2:20] wild swing. The Dow Jones Industrial

[2:23] Average fell nearly 400 points before it

[2:26] made a complete turnaround late in the

[2:28] day. The Dow finished with a gain of 401

[2:31] points to close at 8979.

[2:35] The Nasdaq rose 89 points to close above

[2:38] 1717. The rally took off as oil dropped

[2:42] below $70 a barrel in New York trading

[2:45] for the first time in 15 months. The

[2:48] gains on Wall Street came despite rising

[2:50] concerns about the world economy. In

[2:53] London, investment leaders said a

[2:54] prolonged recession is now seen as

[2:57] unavoidable.

[2:59] >> It's now a question of really that the

[3:01] banking rescue act has come too late. It

[3:03] should have happened a year ago, but

[3:04] we've covered that ground. It was the

[3:06] abrogation of responsibility in the

[3:08] United States and the United Kingdom to

[3:10] actually investigate how dire the

[3:12] problem was after bear stands that got

[3:14] us into this mess. And unfortunately, we

[3:17] are staring vertically into recession.

[3:19] It has arrived. In Washington, Treasury

[3:22] Secretary Pollson acknowledged many

[3:24] errors led to the crisis. He told the

[3:27] Fox Business Network, "We're not proud

[3:29] of all the mistakes that were made by

[3:31] many different people, different

[3:33] parties." Still, Pollson voiced

[3:35] confidence in the Bush administration's

[3:37] $700 billion rescue effort. And White

[3:40] House spokeswoman Dana Pino dismissed

[3:42] talk that investors have no confidence

[3:45] in the president and his team.

[3:47] >> I think it's important that leaders be

[3:49] out there talking about what they're

[3:50] going to be doing. And I as we all are

[3:52] watching the daily movements in the

[3:54] market, we can't peg our uh policy

[3:57] decisions exactly to those daily

[3:58] fluctuations. We have to focus on

[4:00] getting out that information. I I would

[4:02] submit to you that if we weren't talking

[4:04] and the market had still gone down

[4:05] yesterday, the questions I'd be

[4:06] answering today would be very different.

[4:08] >> President Bush will speak about the

[4:10] rescue plan and the economy again

[4:12] tomorrow morning before the stock market

[4:15] opens. There were new moves overseas

[4:17] today on the financial meltdown, but

[4:20] they did little to stop heavy losses on

[4:22] major stock exchanges across Europe and

[4:24] Asia. We have a report on the situation

[4:27] in Britain and elsewhere from James

[4:29] Blake of Independent Television News.

[4:32] >> The Treasury and the city had both hoped

[4:34] sudden one-day crashes were over. The

[4:37] 500 billion pound banking bailout was

[4:40] supposed to restore calm. So either the

[4:42] government's emergency plan isn't

[4:44] working at all or it's not working yet.

[4:46] And perhaps more crucial than stocks,

[4:49] the interbank lending rate hasn't eased

[4:51] much either. Inevitably, the slump in

[4:54] London was prompted by a similar crash

[4:56] in the Asian markets. Japan has seen

[4:59] some dramatic one-day falls in the past

[5:01] two weeks, but none as big as today. The

[5:04] Nikai was down 11%, the largest drop

[5:07] since those black days of 1987. The

[5:10] Japanese prime minister blamed the $700

[5:12] billion US bailout plan.

[5:16] >> It was insufficient and now the market

[5:18] is again falling sharply. And in Europe,

[5:21] a sign of just how bad things are. Two

[5:23] once mighty Swiss banks, Credit Swiss

[5:26] and UBS, are to receive billions of

[5:28] dollars in emergency government funding.

[5:31] And UBS is transferring $60 billion of

[5:34] toxic debt to the Swiss National Bank. A

[5:37] two-day summit of the European Union

[5:40] ended today. Leaders of the 27 nations

[5:42] agreed on aid for banks and a possible

[5:45] stimulus package. They also agreed to go

[5:48] ahead with a plan to cut greenhouse

[5:50] gases. French President Sarusi warned

[5:53] the deadline on climate change is so

[5:55] important that we cannot use the

[5:57] financial and economic crisis as a

[5:59] pretext for dropping it. The US

[6:02] presidential candidates resumed

[6:03] campaigning today after their final

[6:05] debate. In London Derry, New Hampshire,

[6:08] Democrat Barack Obama warned against

[6:10] overconfidence despite his lead in the

[6:12] polls. But in Downington, Pennsylvania,

[6:15] Republican John McCain said voters won't

[6:17] let Obama use taxes to spread the

[6:20] wealth. We'll have more on the campaign

[6:22] later in the program tonight. The FBI is

[6:25] investigating the activist group Acorn

[6:27] over allegations of voter registration

[6:30] fraud. The Associated Press reported

[6:32] that today. It said a senior law

[6:35] enforcement official confirmed

[6:37] investigations are underway in at least

[6:40] nine states. The issue came up in last

[6:42] night's presidential debate. Senator Ted

[6:45] Stevens took the stand today at his

[6:47] federal corruption trial in Washington.

[6:50] The Alaska Republicans accused of lying

[6:52] on gift disclosure statements filed with

[6:55] the US Senate. Stevens denied taking

[6:58] part in any scheme to hide gifts,

[7:00] including $250,000

[7:02] in home improvements. Prosecutors

[7:05] contend the work was done for free.

[7:08] There was word today Defense Secretary

[7:10] Gates supports a draft security

[7:12] agreement with Iraq. It was widely

[7:14] reported to set a deadline for a US pull

[7:17] out before 2012 and it could allow Iraqi

[7:20] courts to try American soldiers for

[7:23] offduty crimes. Pentagon spokesman Jeff

[7:26] Morurell said Gates is discussing it

[7:28] with members of Congress. I don't think

[7:31] the secretary would be making the phone

[7:32] calls he's making today if he did not

[7:34] believe this document adequately

[7:36] protected our forces in Iraq.

[7:40] >> Yes, it

[7:41] >> that is what I just said it to be. He is

[7:43] he is comfortable with the document that

[7:45] he is calling people about today. In

[7:49] Afghanistan today, the US military said

[7:51] an Afghan policeman opened fire on a US

[7:55] patrol and killed one American soldier.

[7:57] It was the second such attack in less

[7:59] than a month. Puerto Rico and the Virgin

[8:02] Islands breathed easier today after

[8:04] Hurricane Omar missed a direct hit.

[8:07] Overnight, the storm passed between St.

[8:09] Martin and the US Virgin Islands with

[8:12] winds of 125 m an hour. It weakened as

[8:15] it headed into the Atlantic. There were

[8:18] no reports of deaths or major damage.

[8:20] The US Environmental Protection Agency

[8:23] today cut the amount of lead allowed in

[8:25] the nation's air by 90%. The agency

[8:28] acted under a federal court order. It

[8:30] means 16,000 smelters, incinerators, and

[8:34] other sources must now cut their

[8:36] emissions. The new lead standard is the

[8:38] first since 1978.

[8:41] Social Security benefits are headed for

[8:43] the largest increase in more than 25

[8:45] years. The Social Security

[8:47] Administration today announced the cost

[8:49] of living adjustment next year will be

[8:51] 5.8%.

[8:53] More than 50 million Americans will see

[8:55] an average of $63 more a month. Actress

[9:00] and singer Edy Adams died at a Los

[9:02] Angeles hospital on Wednesday. She had

[9:05] pneumonia and cancer. Adams won a Tony

[9:07] Award for bringing the Lil Adner

[9:10] character Daisy May to life on Broadway

[9:12] in 1957. She was also known for her

[9:15] television role opposite her comedian

[9:18] husband, the late Ernie Kovac. Edie

[9:21] Adams was 81 years old. And that's it

[9:24] for the news summary tonight. Now is a

[9:26] global recession coming to the

[9:28] presidential campaign, New Mexico

[9:30] reaction to the debate and the styles

[9:33] and rhetoric of the debaters.

[9:42] Jeffrey Brown has our recession story.

[9:46] Even as Wall Street opened this morning,

[9:48] there were heavy losses in Asia. Japan's

[9:50] Nikke index fell 11% and throughout

[9:53] Europe. In the era of globalization, the

[9:55] sun never sets on the financial markets.

[9:58] And now the turmoil and fears of a steep

[10:00] recession are worldwide. We update the

[10:03] situation with Zany Mitten Bettos,

[10:05] economics editor for the Economist

[10:07] magazine. Hikah Booker, business

[10:09] correspondent for Gizite, a German

[10:11] newspaper, and Susumu Aanahara, a

[10:14] longtime economics journalist and now

[10:16] senior analyst at Medley Global Advisors

[10:19] and investment consulting firm.

[10:21] Hikabter, let me start with you and the

[10:23] situation in Europe. Are the problems

[10:25] there because of what's happening in the

[10:28] US or because of problems of their own

[10:30] or can those even be separated?

[10:33] I would say um the problems originated

[10:36] here in the US and that's where um yeah

[10:39] in Europe or um at least in Germany um

[10:42] people are uh thinking uh this is where

[10:45] the original sin happened so to speak

[10:47] and then it came um to Europe but uh one

[10:50] has to say that um the Europeans were

[10:52] illprepared they should have known that

[10:55] um this is a global problem and they

[10:56] should have been much more um on the

[10:59] lookout for problems in their own

[11:00] banking system and they just waited far

[11:03] too long to deal with it.

[11:05] >> And to what extent did the banks there

[11:07] invest in subprime loans and other and

[11:10] other uh what turned out to be bad bad

[11:12] loans?

[11:13] >> I mean the German government just put

[11:15] together a rescue package um almost the

[11:17] size of um the US. Um um it's about 670

[11:21] billion dollars 500 um billion euro and

[11:26] um that shows you the extent of um the

[11:29] the government's worry about the banking

[11:30] system. So um nobody really knows for

[11:34] sure what's in on the balance sheets but

[11:36] um the size of the rescue package is for

[11:39] German standards it's enormous

[11:42] what about in Asia the markets there

[11:45] give us an overview of what's driving

[11:46] the turmoil there well um it is very

[11:50] much uh following the US market uh you

[11:53] mentioned that uh the Asia markets were

[11:56] down uh yesterday or yeah I guess today

[12:01] earlier today but yesterday um it's

[12:04] going to open again. I I wouldn't be

[12:06] surprised that it would rise again. It

[12:08] went down sharply uh uh and before that

[12:12] on Tuesday it went up. So the volatility

[12:15] is I think going going to continue but

[12:17] it very much um uh following the US

[12:20] market. uh just until a few months ago

[12:23] the agents were proudly saying that uh

[12:25] this time there is a decoupling uh

[12:28] so-called uh the idea is that even if

[12:31] the um US gets a cold uh Asia doesn't

[12:35] have to come down with pneumonia again

[12:37] uh because there's a lot of trade among

[12:39] Asian countries a lot of mutual

[12:41] investment uh there's a big thing going

[12:44] there so uh it won't be so much affected

[12:47] by a slowdown in the US uh that theory

[12:50] has has been blown away and uh so we are

[12:54] looking at at the US and uh I think the

[12:57] stock markets in Asia follow uh uh by

[13:00] and large what happens in the uh New

[13:02] York markets.

[13:04] >> Uh Zen Meadows help us untangle this

[13:07] sort of globalization how this works. Do

[13:09] you think of it as things moving in a

[13:12] line from one place to another or is

[13:14] there a kind of circular blowback that

[13:16] affects everyone at the same time? How

[13:18] how do you think about it? I I think

[13:19] it's both of those. I think we are, as

[13:21] you said in your introduction, we're in

[13:22] a globalized world where the sun never

[13:24] sets on financial markets. And I try and

[13:27] think of it in in three dimensions. The

[13:29] first one is how countries are linked

[13:30] economically. And so the question is to

[13:32] what extent the US is in recession. How

[13:34] much does of an impact does that

[13:36] recession have on other economies? And

[13:37] that's where um people used to think

[13:39] that the emerging economies were

[13:40] decoupled. Now I think that that that

[13:43] has been blown away and they're not. And

[13:44] when you say I mean just to stop for a

[13:46] second we've been talking about Asia and

[13:47] Europe but you're talking about emerging

[13:49] markets

[13:49] >> emerging markets broadly there was a

[13:51] view that the emerging economies have

[13:52] been have beencome an increasingly

[13:54] important part of the global economy and

[13:56] their domestic demand that their own

[13:58] engines are growing faster and so

[14:00] countries like China Brazil the big fast

[14:02] growing emerging economies I think that

[14:04] is being increasingly tested that thesis

[14:06] but that's not the only link that I look

[14:08] at the second one is a is a financial

[14:10] link if you will and that's if people

[14:12] are riskaverse if they're worried, they

[14:15] pull their money out of riskier

[14:16] investments. And many emerging economies

[14:18] are still seen as riskier investments.

[14:20] And then the third link is what you

[14:22] might call the technical link, which is

[14:23] if a hedge fund is losing money in the

[14:25] US and has to raise some cash quickly,

[14:28] it might sell something in Brazil, it

[14:31] might sell something somewhere else in

[14:32] the world. And that's that's not really

[14:33] an economic link between them at all.

[14:35] It's just as a purely technical link

[14:36] within financial markets. And we're

[14:38] seeing

[14:38] >> but it can have it can have a huge

[14:40] effect. And that's and we're seeing all

[14:42] of those three things going on at the

[14:43] same time. And that's why we're seeing

[14:44] huge swings in markets outside of the US

[14:47] because the rest of the world, you've

[14:48] got some of this technical stuff going

[14:49] on. You've got a huge risk aversion.

[14:51] You've got people fleeing into dollars

[14:53] out of risky currencies. And you've also

[14:55] got a sense of oh my goodness, the the

[14:57] world economy is going into recession.

[14:59] It's not just the rich world.

[15:00] >> Let's let's look at the economic impact.

[15:02] Last night on the show, we talked about

[15:04] what's happening in the US economy.

[15:05] Hikabter, where do you see the economic

[15:09] impact already in Europe? What

[15:11] businesses might be getting hurt? Uh

[15:14] layoffs are are there real fears of a

[15:16] very steep recession already?

[15:19] >> Very much so. Um on the official side,

[15:21] um the government at least hopes maybe

[15:24] Germany um the biggest economy in the EU

[15:26] still u by large um is sneaking by

[15:29] maybe. And um yeah um this this

[15:33] decoupling theory which has been um

[15:35] totally abandoned by now but that has

[15:37] been around um for the last couple of

[15:40] years and um people loathe to let go of

[15:43] that but um I guess main street in

[15:45] Germany um is already um afraid that

[15:48] this might have a huge impact in the job

[15:50] market and that's really bad for Germany

[15:52] because the labor market there is much

[15:54] more rigid than it is in the US and um

[15:56] whatever jobs we might lose and people

[15:58] are very well aware that if stock

[16:00] markets are going down, um companies

[16:03] will have to cut costs and they will cut

[16:06] costs when they um will shut jobs and um

[16:08] in Germany it will take a long long time

[16:10] to rebuild um the job market. It it took

[16:13] a long long time to get where we are now

[16:16] um and people are very afraid that they

[16:18] will fall back again.

[16:19] >> Mr. Wanahara, what about in Asia? The

[16:21] impact economic impact are you seeing it

[16:24] already? uh very much so. Uh also uh in

[16:27] Asia uh China for example um is is a a

[16:32] big exporter to the US. Uh we hear

[16:35] anecdotes of uh you know industries

[16:38] whole industries in a in a region being

[16:40] affected uh anecdotes. uh so I don't

[16:43] know the the real statistics but

[16:45] sometimes you hear about 60 70% of the

[16:49] toy uh companies uh shut shutting down

[16:53] uh maybe for other reasons safety

[16:55] reasons also but uh uh largely also

[16:58] because of recession in or slow slower

[17:01] growth in the US uh uh or um

[17:08] uh you hear about containers containers

[17:11] uh coming back empty. Uh I mean going

[17:14] going to uh uh America uh more empty uh

[17:19] coming still coming back uh full because

[17:23] uh emerging markets are following the

[17:26] develop developed markets uh developed

[17:29] countries in in this uh cycle. Uh so

[17:32] they are still importing uh uh as much

[17:35] as before or nearly as much as before.

[17:38] uh whereas the uh their exports to the

[17:40] developed countries are are suffering.

[17:44] >> Uh Zany, what about government responses

[17:47] now? Uh we know at the begin over the

[17:50] weekend there was the coordinated

[17:51] European response after a period where

[17:53] nothing much was happening. Um, today I

[17:55] think it was or yesterday in London,

[17:57] Gordon Brown called for a new Breton

[18:00] Woods, referring to the 1944 conference

[18:03] and the helped create the post-war

[18:06] economic financial model that we that we

[18:08] have, the IMF, World Bank. What would

[18:10] that mean today?

[18:11] >> Creating a new Breton Woods.

[18:12] >> Yes.

[18:13] >> Well, I think Gordon Brown has wanted to

[18:15] do that for a long time. He's been

[18:17] talking about this for years, but but I

[18:18] think we've seen three specific stages

[18:21] in this. The first was up until about

[18:23] two weeks ago, governments outside of

[18:26] the US by and large thought this was

[18:28] primarily a US problem and particularly

[18:30] in Europe there was an a lot of shard

[18:31] and freer a lot of this is a the US

[18:34] problem named it was made in America

[18:35] it's their mess and then suddenly and

[18:37] very quickly there was a recognition

[18:38] that was not just a US problem that it

[18:40] was a global problem and I think we had

[18:42] a a real shift last weekend at the IMF

[18:44] meetings when there was a recognition

[18:46] that to solve this it was a global

[18:47] problem it needed a comprehensive

[18:49] solution a systemic solution and I I

[18:51] think that's what we saw. We had

[18:52] coordinated central bank interest rates

[18:54] cut. We've had, as you said, governments

[18:56] across Europe now recapitalizing their

[18:58] banks, doing guaranteeing, lending, and

[19:00] now you've had an interesting twist

[19:01] because the US this week with the bank

[19:03] recapitalization plan kind of followed

[19:05] Gordon Brown's lead. He had he had had a

[19:08] plan like that for the UK before the US

[19:10] did. And so now the Europeans think that

[19:12] they're kind of intellectually in the

[19:13] driving seat and that they they can sort

[19:16] of use the the oomph from this to set in

[19:20] place broader reforms. And I think

[19:21] Gordon Wright has a has a point in in

[19:23] two ways. First of all, you know, we

[19:25] have a globalized financial market, but

[19:27] we have national by and large we have

[19:29] national supervision, national

[19:30] regulation. It makes sense to try and

[19:32] develop more global norms, more global

[19:34] rules. And secondly, the machinery we

[19:37] have from the original Breton, you

[19:38] mentioned the IMF and the World Bank are

[19:40] completely outdated for the kind of

[19:42] world we have. They're dominated by the

[19:43] Europeans and the Americans. The growing

[19:45] powers, the emerging economies who are

[19:47] becoming increasingly important and to

[19:48] whom economic heft is shifting need to

[19:51] have more representation, need to be

[19:52] more involved in figuring out what kind

[19:54] of a global financial architecture, if

[19:56] you will, that's the jargon we want to

[19:58] create. And so, while I don't think

[20:00] Gordon Brown is going to we're not going

[20:02] to have a conference like we had in 1944

[20:04] where we totally remake the world

[20:05] economy. That happened, you know, during

[20:08] a war and after a depression. You know,

[20:10] things are bad, but they're not that

[20:11] bad. And so as a result, we're not going

[20:12] to have such a big change. But I think

[20:15] we will have lots of meetings to discuss

[20:17] this. And I hope with luck, we'll get a

[20:18] new kind of multilateralism out of it.

[20:21] >> May I come in on that? Yes, go ahead. We

[20:23] just have a minute. On on the new Breton

[20:25] words, I I would like to say uh on on

[20:28] Asia, I think the Asians would uh insist

[20:31] on on uh being part of the rule making.

[20:35] uh as it was mentioned already uh they

[20:39] um are a lot stronger uh a lot more

[20:42] powerful and richer uh than they were in

[20:44] 1944 of course uh and uh even now the

[20:49] group of seven group of eight have to

[20:51] often invite the so-called bricks uh

[20:55] Brazil India uh um China Russia

[20:59] >> the emerging markets we're talking about

[21:00] yeah would have to be part of that

[21:02] >> and I think they would want they would

[21:04] insist on coming in. Um uh I think the

[21:06] Europeans uh and the G7 are trying to

[21:10] have a summit to discuss the new

[21:13] Bretonwoods uh in the near future. Uh

[21:16] but I think uh these major uh developing

[21:20] countries uh would probably be very

[21:23] quick to insist that they have to be a

[21:25] part of this new uh world financial

[21:28] order.

[21:29] >> All right, Susumu Aanahara Hikabter and

[21:32] Zani Mittenberto. Thank you all very

[21:34] much.

[21:43] Now, a day after their final debate, the

[21:45] presidential candidates were back to

[21:47] campaigning. NewsHour correspondentWami

[21:49] Homeman reports.

[21:52] >> Republican nominee John McCain today

[21:54] took some of the same criticisms of

[21:56] Democrat Barack Obama he used last night

[21:58] into his first post-debate event in

[22:01] Downing Town, Pennsylvania. The real

[22:03] winner last night was Joe the plumber.

[22:06] >> That included an analysis of the Obama

[22:08] economic program and its effect on one

[22:11] Ohio plumber mentioned frequently by

[22:13] both candidates a few hours before.

[22:16] >> You might recall I related last night.

[22:18] Senator Obama had an encounter with Joe.

[22:21] Joe the plumber out in Ohio, another

[22:24] battleground state. And you know Joe the

[22:27] plumber said, "Look, I've been working

[22:29] all my life, 10, 12 hours. I want to buy

[22:31] the business that I'm in, but you're

[22:33] going to raise my taxes. And you know

[22:36] what Senator Obama had to say to Joe? He

[22:40] wanted to spread his wealth around. He

[22:44] wanted to spread his wealth.

[22:50] And what does that mean? He wants

[22:52] government to take Joe's money and give

[22:55] it to somebody else. His hard-earned

[22:57] dollars. We're not going to stand for

[22:58] that. And McCain also repeated his

[23:01] answer to Obama's charge that a McCain

[23:03] presidency would be a lot like that of

[23:05] George W. Bush.

[23:07] >> As I mentioned last night to Senator

[23:08] Obama, I'm not George Bush. If he wanted

[23:11] to run against George Bush, he should

[23:13] have run four years ago.

[23:22] I'll take us in a new direction, my

[23:25] friends. The hour is late. Our troubles

[23:27] are getting worse. our enemies watch.

[23:29] We'll have to act immediately and we

[23:31] need that new direction now and we have

[23:34] to fight and that's what America is all

[23:36] about and that's what I'll do for you.

[23:39] This morning, Joe the plumber also came

[23:41] up in Banger Maine where McCain's

[23:43] running mate Sarah Palin compared him to

[23:46] another Joe, Democratic vice

[23:47] presidential nominee Joe Biden.

[23:49] >> You know, we want to cut taxes because

[23:52] we think like Joe or Jane the plumber

[23:56] thinks. Okay. Our opponents want to

[23:59] raise taxes because they think like that

[24:02] other Joe, that six-term senator from

[24:05] Delaware whom I'm running against.

[24:08] >> Joe the plumber is Joe Worzelbucker of

[24:11] Holland, Ohio, who challenged Obama

[24:13] about his tax plan at a campaign event

[24:15] in Toledo last weekend.

[24:17] >> Your new tax plan is going to tax me

[24:19] more, doesn't it? After the presidential

[24:21] candidates invoked his name more than

[24:23] two dozen times last night, Worelbacher

[24:26] was thrust into instant celebrity

[24:28] appearing on several network morning

[24:30] shows today.

[24:32] >> Caught outside his home, Worelbacher was

[24:35] asked which candidate he supported.

[24:37] >> At this point in time, I'm not telling

[24:38] anybody anything. You know, you guys

[24:40] want to ask me my opinion's great, but

[24:42] who I'm voting for, you know, that's why

[24:44] it's a private mood. Meanwhile, Obama

[24:46] today also retread some of the ground

[24:48] covered in the debate in London Dair,

[24:51] New Hampshire. He stuck with his

[24:52] comparison of McCain and President Bush.

[24:55] Now, last night, Senator McCain said

[24:58] that George Bush won't be on the ballot

[24:59] this November. He said, "Yo, I don't

[25:02] know why you're running against

[25:04] >> George Bush." I said, "I'm not running

[25:05] against George Bush. I'm running against

[25:07] all those policies of George Bush that

[25:10] you support, Senator McCain.

[25:15] In three debates and over 20 months,

[25:18] John McCain still hasn't explained a

[25:21] single thing he would do differently

[25:23] from George Bush when it comes to the

[25:25] most important economic issues we face

[25:28] today. Not one.

[25:29] >> And he criticized McCain for personal

[25:31] attacks during their face-to-face

[25:33] meeting.

[25:34] >> Here's what Senator McCain doesn't seem

[25:35] to understand. With the economy in

[25:37] turmoil, with the American dream at

[25:40] risk, the American people don't want to

[25:42] hear politicians attack each other. You

[25:45] want to hear about how we're going to

[25:46] attack the challenges facing the middle

[25:48] class each and every day.

[25:50] >> Though several national polls show Obama

[25:53] ahead, he said a previous experience in

[25:55] the Granite State taught him not to be

[25:57] complacent.

[25:58] >> For those who are getting a little

[25:59] cocky,

[26:01] >> I've got two words for you. New

[26:04] Hampshire.

[26:07] I learned right here

[26:09] >> with the help of my great friend and

[26:11] supporter Hillary Clinton

[26:13] >> that you cannot let up. You can't pay

[26:16] too much attention to polls. We've got

[26:19] to keep making our case for change.

[26:21] We've got to keep fighting for every

[26:23] single vote.

[26:24] >> It was a sentiment echoed by Obama's

[26:27] running mate who addressed volunteers at

[26:29] a campaign office in Columbus, Ohio.

[26:31] >> Look at how many headquarters you have

[26:33] here in Ohio. Look what's going on. Mr.

[26:35] chairman in Virginia, North Carolina,

[26:38] Montana. I mean, places where we have

[26:40] haven't been able to compete in some

[26:42] cases since 1964

[26:44] and the Johnson landslide. It's because

[26:46] the organization that you all put

[26:49] together.

[26:50] >> Biden will go up against McCain in his

[26:52] own way tonight. He'll appear on the

[26:54] Tonight Show with Jay Leno while John

[26:56] McCain is a guest on the Late Show with

[26:58] David Letterman.

[27:07] And back to last night's debate. As part

[27:10] of our big picture coverage, Judy

[27:12] Woodruff has reaction from voters in New

[27:14] Mexico.

[27:15] >> When we welcome Barack Obama and John

[27:18] McCain,

[27:19] >> we invited eight people, four who

[27:21] support Senator McCain and four for

[27:23] Senator Obama to watch the debate with

[27:26] us. Then we sat down together in the

[27:28] studios of KNME, the public television

[27:32] station here in Albuquerque. Leaning

[27:34] toward voting for McCain are Steven

[27:37] Dinkl, a student at the University of

[27:39] New Mexico, Margaret Ford, a realtor,

[27:43] Bill Mierra, a small business owner, and

[27:46] Kim Haron Singleton, a recruiting

[27:48] manager for a defense contractor.

[27:51] Leaning toward voting for Obama are

[27:54] David Archeletta, an attorney, Pamela

[27:57] He. Hearnden, deputy superintendent of

[27:59] regulation and licensing for the state

[28:02] of New Mexico, Wayne Lucero, a

[28:05] firefighter, and Tracy Canard Gooduck,

[28:08] an administrator for a Native American

[28:11] charter school. Thank you all for being

[28:13] with us tonight to talk about what

[28:15] you've just heard. And I'm going to

[28:17] start with you, Stephen Dinkle. Uh, what

[28:19] did you hear tonight, if anything, that

[28:21] affects the way you view these two

[28:24] candidates?

[28:25] >> Nothing. They It's pretty much the same

[28:28] thing that I've heard before. This has

[28:30] been a long process, and we, like I

[28:33] said, we've heard it before. But what I

[28:35] do like is the way that they delivered

[28:37] themselves. Obama was a little bit more

[28:40] uh not too aggressive, so to say, and

[28:42] McCain had to show that aggressiveness,

[28:44] which he did.

[28:45] >> And Tracy, good luck. What about you?

[28:47] What did you hear tonight that affected

[28:49] your thinking about these two?

[28:50] >> Well, I still am leaning for Obama and

[28:53] will vote for him. Um, so I I think it

[28:56] definitely solidified my opinions on

[28:58] that end. I felt that he seemed to me um

[29:01] to want to really address the issues and

[29:04] talk about the issues and keep putting

[29:06] the American people front and center.

[29:08] Um, I did not hear that from McCain.

[29:11] >> Uh, Margaret uh Forbes, was that your

[29:14] take on this debate? Well, I thought it

[29:16] was a much more I guess I'll say gental

[29:19] debate than the last ones where they've

[29:21] been really bitter and aggressive with

[29:25] each other and not very it wasn't

[29:27] valuable I think for the whole

[29:29] population.

[29:30] >> Wayne Lucero, how did you see it? Did

[29:32] you would you agree with that?

[29:34] >> Yes, I would. Um

[29:36] Obama really talked about the issues and

[29:39] he said how he was planning on trying to

[29:43] fix them. Uh McCain kind of touched on

[29:46] it here and there.

[29:48] >> Well, let me come to you, Bill Mera. Uh

[29:50] you came into this leaning John McCain.

[29:53] What did you hear something tonight that

[29:55] affected your thinking?

[29:56] >> I'm an engineer by training and so I

[29:58] like to have specifics. And to me, Obama

[30:01] has a better presence. Uh he's more

[30:04] articulate. Uh but it's all flash and no

[30:07] substance. And when McCain was asked

[30:10] questions, he had specifics. Hamilton

[30:12] Hearnen uh all flash no substance on the

[30:15] part of Senator Obama.

[30:16] >> I think that that is not true. We must

[30:18] not have heard the same debate. I think

[30:20] that Senator Obama focused on the things

[30:23] that the American people are concerned

[30:24] about. He stayed on task with education,

[30:28] with the economy, with healthcare. And

[30:31] uh he was very specific about his plan

[30:34] in all of those areas. And he listed

[30:36] exactly what he would do. As a matter of

[30:38] fact, I heard him say over and over,

[30:40] "This is my plan."

[30:41] >> Kim Singleton, uh, where do you come

[30:43] down on who was specific and what did

[30:46] you hear overall? I saw from McCain, he

[30:48] finally said, "I am not George Bush."

[30:51] >> And I see I I've seen that consistently

[30:53] throughout the debates in the campaign,

[30:56] Obama referring back to Bush. You know,

[30:59] McCain's just like Bush. He's not. He's

[31:02] not just like Bush. Um, so that that

[31:05] again I was almost proud of him for

[31:07] finally standing up for himself. David

[31:09] Archeletta, I'm coming to you last.

[31:11] Hearing all this, I mean, and and what

[31:14] you heard in this debate, did any of it

[31:16] affect what you thought coming in? You

[31:18] were leaning Obama.

[31:20] >> I still am. Uh, I'm not sure we were all

[31:23] in the same room. Uh, I didn't hear uh

[31:27] everything that everybody else has said.

[31:30] What I did hear is what Kim just said is

[31:32] is that Senator McCain finally stood up

[31:34] for himself. It's the first time he's

[31:37] done that. Um

[31:41] he's desperate. He has nowhere to go

[31:44] except to now start talking about George

[31:47] Bush and his policies and how he's

[31:50] different. Uh up to now he hasn't made

[31:53] that difference or he hasn't uh

[31:55] articulated that difference. I'm not

[31:57] sure he he accomplished that tonight.

[32:00] >> Let's try to bring it back to the

[32:01] debate. Uh on that point, because one of

[32:03] the questions tonight was about their

[32:05] vice presidential choice.

[32:07] >> I found it ironic. Yeah.

[32:09] >> Um at the risk of sounding cliche that

[32:13] we were asking Senator, the moderator

[32:15] was asking Senator Obama about the

[32:18] qualifications

[32:20] of Governor Palin. was being asked to to

[32:23] assess that when there is question um

[32:26] and really no doubt in my mind um that I

[32:29] don't feel that Obama's all that much

[32:31] more qualified if you will on paper and

[32:34] being a recruiter I look at paper a lot

[32:36] um and compare qualifications

[32:39] than um Governor Palin.

[32:41] >> Do you really feel comfortable should

[32:43] die that Sarah Palin become president of

[32:45] the United States? You can't be serious.

[32:48] I feel that way about Obama and he's

[32:50] actually running for president.

[32:51] >> Yeah, but that's that's the point.

[32:53] You're telling me that if something

[32:54] happens to McCain, do I do I see

[32:57] Governor Palin, you know, do I feel that

[32:59] she's qualified? Yes, I do. I do want to

[33:01] come back to something uh that uh Bob

[33:03] Schaefer brought up, and that was the

[33:05] tone of the campaign, the negativity in

[33:08] the campaign. What did any of you think

[33:11] about that, Margaret? Well, the tone of

[33:14] the campaign on both from both parties

[33:17] has been really rather

[33:19] angry,

[33:21] certainly

[33:22] saying things about it's like two little

[33:25] boys fighting, you know, rather than two

[33:27] men of stature running for president.

[33:29] But what about on the negativity point?

[33:32] Two little boys. Wayne, I haven't heard

[33:34] you for a few minutes. Um,

[33:38] most of the commercials that I see, and

[33:40] I don't watch that much TV, but most of

[33:42] the commercials that I see are of McCain

[33:46] with the negative ads. He's always

[33:48] talking Obama voted this way, Obama did

[33:51] this, Obama did that. Most of Obama's

[33:54] campaign

[33:56] uh commercials that I've seen is an a

[33:59] plan of something he wants to he tells

[34:02] us what he wants to do. um the latest

[34:05] one, you know, he's sitting in a living

[34:07] room or something and he's telling us

[34:09] how he wants to, you know, get us out of

[34:11] this economic downfall that we're in.

[34:14] Senator Obama's not creating policy in

[34:17] those ads. He's pointing fingers. That's

[34:19] what both of them have been doing. It's

[34:20] really a very unpleasant campaign and

[34:24] both we're all tired of it. Well, I I

[34:27] found it interesting that um in the

[34:29] debate, so I'm going to go back to what

[34:31] we watched um tonight, the debate that

[34:34] McCain, John McCain was saying um

[34:37] Senator McCain was um trying to say that

[34:41] the reason why the campaign had gone so

[34:44] negative was because there weren't these

[34:46] town hall style meetings. That's

[34:48] absolutely ridiculous. There were going

[34:50] to be negative campaigns regardless if

[34:53] there were town hall meetings or not.

[34:55] And I have watched some of those um the

[34:58] campaign trail of um Sarah Palin and I

[35:01] I've heard the crowd screaming terrorist

[35:04] terrorist. I think that's just horrible.

[35:08] >> Yeah. I've also heard John McCain stop

[35:11] in the middle just this past week and

[35:13] basically say that he you know he does

[35:16] >> running

[35:18] >> well neither neither well but Obama nor

[35:21] nor Joe Joe Biden have sat there and

[35:23] really gotten booed by their own people

[35:25] because he was standing up for Barack

[35:28] Obama and basically saying that's

[35:30] enough. I mean you do not you do not do

[35:33] that. He is a respectable individual. He

[35:35] is a patriot and he is a decent human

[35:38] being and John McCain from his own party

[35:41] was criticized for doing just that and

[35:44] showing honor.

[35:45] >> I do need to make one comment about the

[35:46] negative campaigning. Well, as this as

[35:49] these campaigns have gone on and on,

[35:51] particularly those that have been driven

[35:53] by Governor Palin, the the the the the

[35:58] excitement and um I would say what what

[36:01] is almost the venom that is being

[36:03] portrayed there. It's almost like I want

[36:06] to say it's almost like a lynch light, a

[36:08] lynch mob from the early days.

[36:10] >> Yeah. I I guess I'm confused. Explain to

[36:12] me. Are you saying that because there's

[36:14] some radical folks at some giant rally

[36:17] that Senator McCain and and Palin have

[36:21] those views that they're part of a lynch

[36:23] mob? Is that

[36:24] >> I'm telling you that you you can control

[36:26] the way in which your rallies are

[36:28] conducted and I'm saying to you that

[36:31] there does not appear to be enough

[36:33] effort to control that type of behavior.

[36:36] Coming into this debate, almost every

[36:39] one of you said you wanted to hear more

[36:41] from these candidates, more specifics

[36:43] about their position on the economy,

[36:45] especially given what's been going on in

[36:48] our financial markets uh over the last

[36:50] few weeks. Did you hear uh in this

[36:54] debate tonight the kind of did you get

[36:56] the kind of information you wanted to

[36:58] get? I didn't I think a lot of the

[37:00] specifics that a lot of people just

[37:01] especially me I'm not an you know an you

[37:03] know economy guy you know major for

[37:06] instance um so a lot of it was just

[37:08] right over my head but um I do

[37:12] I did like to I did hear from John

[37:15] McCain lower taxes so if you think about

[37:17] it bring that tax lower you get more

[37:20] business opportunities inside the

[37:22] government then makes more money that's

[37:23] how we can get

[37:24] >> Obama wants to reduce taxes on 95% of

[37:27] the people

[37:29] uh under well on people making under

[37:33] 250,000. When you lower the taxes, it

[37:36] means people have more money to spend

[37:40] creating a better economy. And that's

[37:42] what we're trying to get at. But I think

[37:45] what was demonstrated tonight was

[37:49] leadership on the part of Obama. Um,

[37:53] Senator Obama, I think he's got the

[37:56] grasp of the

[37:57] >> I I did hear something that really

[37:59] helped me understand the positions and

[38:01] and for me it was pretty scary. I heard

[38:03] Obama speaking a lot of rhetoric about I

[38:06] have a plan and everything when it got

[38:08] down to the specifics. Here's an

[38:11] economic reality. They can't do neither

[38:13] of the candidates can do all of their

[38:14] plan for spending. Okay. When asked what

[38:17] you would cut, Obama only had one item,

[38:19] something in Medicare. John McCain had

[38:21] about eight different items. Okay, just

[38:24] the opposite. What Obama proposed was,

[38:26] okay, in in in education, we're going to

[38:29] spend more upfront. In healthcare, we're

[38:31] going to spend more upfront. And you

[38:33] can't tax your way out of an economic

[38:35] downturn. Okay? That's what I see. The

[38:38] only way he's going to pay for those

[38:39] programs is higher taxes. Okay? And

[38:41] we've learned that if there's anything

[38:43] in history we've learned, you cannot tax

[38:45] your weight out of an economic downturn.

[38:47] Uh what I heard tonight was I heard

[38:49] Senator Obama say he was going to go

[38:51] line by line through the budget and

[38:54] determine those programs which were

[38:55] working and those programs which were

[38:57] not. And those that those that were not

[38:59] working, he was going to get rid of

[39:01] those. That was one way of helping to

[39:03] create more money for the economy. He

[39:05] also talked about job credits. He also

[39:08] talked about credits for companies that

[39:09] keep jobs in the United States as

[39:12] opposed to shipping them overseas. So, I

[39:14] thought he was very specific about the

[39:16] things that he wanted to do and and

[39:19] those were things that were important to

[39:20] me to stimulate the economy.

[39:22] >> Okay. One other we're going to let you

[39:23] make the last point, I think,

[39:24] >> real quick.

[39:25] >> Somebody has to have

[39:27] >> going through a a budget line item by

[39:29] line item is a classic political

[39:31] non-answer. Okay. It says nothing.

[39:33] There's no specifics. All he talked

[39:35] about was investments. And I I I agree

[39:37] we got to make investments in education.

[39:40] But that's just a classic political

[39:42] non-answer. And it's not what it was

[39:45] exactly what confirmed for me that his

[39:48] only plan is let's spend more money.

[39:50] >> Judy, you started the program by talking

[39:52] to a McCain person and I'd like you to

[39:54] end it talking to an Obama person. And

[39:57] so what I would say is the last word is

[39:59] that to go down line by line as Senator

[40:01] Obama stated to delete those programs

[40:05] that are not producing and are not are

[40:07] not serving the American people well is

[40:09] a great idea. So with that, uh, Judy, I

[40:13] think the economy is in good hands with

[40:17] Senator Obama.

[40:18] >> Well, thank you all very much, each and

[40:20] every one of you, for watching this

[40:21] debate with us and for having this

[40:23] lively conversation. Thank you all. And

[40:26] I want to finally thank KNME Public

[40:29] Television here in Albuquerque for

[40:31] hosting us this entire week. Thanks to

[40:34] you as well.

[40:36] >> The full discussion with New Mexico

[40:38] voters is on our website. Just go to

[40:40] pbs.org and then as always scroll down

[40:44] to NewsHour Reports.

[40:53] And finally tonight, the candidates's

[40:55] language and manner. Ray Suarez has that

[40:58] story. Last night's debate highlighted

[41:00] how the presidential candidates have

[41:02] sought to portray themselves and respond

[41:05] to each other throughout this general

[41:06] election. Here's that Joe the plumber

[41:09] exchange.

[41:10] A couple of days ago, Senator Obama was

[41:12] out in Ohio and he had an encounter with

[41:14] a guy who's a plumber. Name is Joe

[41:17] Wzelberger.

[41:19] Uh Joe wants to buy the business that

[41:23] he's been in for all these years. Work

[41:25] 10 12 hours a day and he wanted to buy

[41:28] the business, but he looked at your tax

[41:30] plan and he saw that he was going to pay

[41:33] much higher taxes. What you want to do

[41:36] to Joe the plumber and millions more

[41:38] like him is have their taxes increased

[41:41] and not be able to realize the American

[41:43] dream of owning their own business.

[41:45] That's what Joe believes.

[41:47] >> He's been watching some ads of Senator

[41:49] McCain. Let me tell you what I'm

[41:51] actually going to do. Um

[41:54] I think tax policy is a major difference

[41:56] between Senator McCain and myself. Uh

[41:59] and we both want to cut taxes. The

[42:01] difference is who we want to cut taxes

[42:02] for. Uh now, Senator McCain, the

[42:05] centerpiece of his economic proposal is

[42:08] to provide $200 billion in additional

[42:11] tax breaks to some of the wealthiest

[42:13] corporations in America. Uh Exon Mobile

[42:16] and other oil companies, for example,

[42:17] would get an additional $4 billion in

[42:19] tax breaks. With me now to discuss what

[42:22] more we learned about how the candidates

[42:24] present themselves and their views is

[42:26] Kathleen Hall Jameson, director of the

[42:28] Annenburgg Public Policy Center at the

[42:31] University of Pennsylvania. She's

[42:33] written over a dozen political science

[42:35] books, including some focusing on

[42:36] debates and rhetoric. And Kathleen

[42:39] Kendall is a research professor at the

[42:41] University of Maryland. She focuses on

[42:43] American presidential campaign

[42:45] communication. Professor Jameson, if

[42:48] essentially debate, these debates are um

[42:51] a series of questions asked to

[42:52] candidates about how they would do their

[42:54] job and what they intend to do. Well,

[42:57] how did the people make out? Did they

[42:59] get good answers? What was the quality

[43:02] of the argument?

[43:03] >> Well, first you what you saw in your

[43:05] tape of voters is that people come into

[43:07] debates with partisan dispositions and

[43:09] very strong opinions. Those who already

[43:11] favor one candidate will take different

[43:13] things out. They'll be selectively

[43:15] perceiving the things that benefit their

[43:17] candidate and they'll be more critical

[43:18] of the other side. But what the debate

[43:20] does is gives those who know a lot about

[43:22] policy new information and those who

[43:24] don't know much information as well.

[43:26] There were philosophical differences on

[43:28] the economy that were clarified and you

[43:30] heard that with your voter group. There

[43:32] were also differences on health care, on

[43:34] trade, on education, on abortion

[43:37] clarified in this debate. So there's a

[43:39] capacity to learn important issue

[43:41] distinctions. There are also some areas

[43:43] in which people probably came out

[43:44] confused. You came out of this debate

[43:46] thinking that Senator Obama was

[43:48] supporting the singlepayer plan. Well,

[43:50] that's not right. And you came out

[43:52] thinking that what Senator McCain was

[43:54] going to do was tax your employer given

[43:56] health benefits and not give you as a

[43:59] family $5,000 to offset those taxes or

[44:02] 2500 for an individual. Well, you were

[44:04] misled too. So, some clarification on

[44:07] issues, also some confusion, some

[44:09] clarification about philosophical

[44:10] differences.

[44:11] >> Looking at last night, what would you

[44:12] say about the language the men chose to

[44:15] use to describe themselves and their

[44:17] opponent? One of the things that debates

[44:19] do is help us understand the person who

[44:21] would be president. And so what you saw

[44:23] was Senator McCain going to his

[44:26] background to describe some things that

[44:28] I'm sure most voters didn't know. For

[44:30] example, that he supported the patients

[44:32] bill of rights. You also saw Senator

[44:35] Obama going back to one of those charge

[44:37] countercharges in the campaign. What did

[44:39] he do with school reform in Chicago with

[44:42] William Ays to signal that that was a

[44:44] mainstream effort? He cites Republicans

[44:47] who are involved in the process. They're

[44:48] using language Republicans involved in

[44:51] the process patients bill of rights to

[44:53] signal a centurism on the part of both

[44:55] candidates. Professor Kendall, uh I

[44:57] guess along with what they said, you

[45:00] tried to assess how they said it.

[45:03] >> Yes. This is one of the classical

[45:05] cannons of rhetoric, one of the things

[45:06] that has been studied since classical

[45:08] times. the uh the delivery of the

[45:11] candidates, whether they how they use

[45:13] their voice, how they stand, how they

[45:15] gesture, how they uh the the sound of

[45:19] their voice, their eye contact, all of

[45:21] those things are ways that we read

[45:22] meaning into what people say. And it's

[45:25] about the easiest thing for people to

[45:27] look at because it's visual. So, it's

[45:30] the first thing that people tend to talk

[45:32] about. In fact, I was uh surprised and

[45:34] impressed that the focus group that we

[45:37] just heard uh did not talk extensively

[45:40] about about the uh delivery because

[45:43] that's the most, you know, superficial

[45:45] thing, but it's also the first thing

[45:47] people notice.

[45:48] >> Well, what was an important contrast for

[45:50] you?

[45:50] >> Well, uh for example, the uh uh in the

[45:54] first debate, uh John McCain was uh

[45:58] criticized by the media and by the

[46:00] public for looking down all the time. He

[46:02] was looking at his notes. He was taking

[46:04] notes and he didn't look at at Senator

[46:06] Obama. Uh now we just as as uh uh

[46:12] Professor Jameson has said, we perceive

[46:14] things in different ways depending on

[46:16] what we expect. And so you could

[46:18] interpret that as being a sign of

[46:20] evasiveness looking down because in our

[46:22] society we place a a premium on uh

[46:26] direct eye contact. Or you could say,

[46:28] well, maybe he wasn't very well prepared

[46:30] that night because remember he flew back

[46:32] to Washington to work on the uh tax on

[46:35] the crisis, the financial crisis. Maybe

[46:37] he didn't have much time to prepare

[46:39] >> and last night

[46:40] >> or hostility. You might read that as

[46:41] hostility. So there were different

[46:43] interpretations. Last night he was quite

[46:45] changed in his physical delivery in that

[46:47] he looked right at uh Senator Obama. He

[46:51] smiled. Uh he was uh he also praised

[46:56] him. These things are linked. The words

[46:58] and the delivery can be linked, of

[47:00] course. So, there's a much friendlier

[47:02] kind of um atmosphere.

[47:05] >> Uh Bob Schiffer alluded to it last

[47:07] night, Professor Jameson, that uh maybe

[47:09] these men wouldn't be willing to say to

[47:11] each other's faces the things that they

[47:13] had been saying about each other over

[47:15] the airwaves. Is it different when the

[47:17] two men are not only on the same stage,

[47:20] but in fact seated just a few feet from

[47:22] each other and looking at each other and

[47:24] speaking to each other? Is the nature of

[47:26] the confrontation different?

[47:28] >> Yes, it's very difficult when you're at

[47:30] very close quarters to say anything

[47:32] that's univil to somebody else and about

[47:35] somebody else. And as a result, we

[47:37] should encourage more of those kinds of

[47:39] debate rather than less of them. Right.

[47:42] >> Um, one at one moment uh there was uh a

[47:46] split screen at several moments during

[47:49] last night's debate and TV tends to

[47:51] create these high contrast moments. Uh

[47:55] does a candidate have to keep in mind

[47:57] his physical appearance when you know

[48:00] tens of millions of people are watching?

[48:02] >> Yes. I think that may account for the

[48:04] fact that that McCain and I've seen

[48:06] other candidates write a great deal

[48:08] because they at least they look like

[48:09] they're doing something, you know, while

[48:12] knowing that the camera might be on them

[48:14] at any moment. One of the things about

[48:16] the debates that is unique and and this

[48:18] has to do with delivery, but the whole

[48:20] thing is that you see two candidates

[48:23] side by side and that this is the only

[48:25] occasion where you see that. That's one

[48:28] of the special things about the debate.

[48:29] And of course, you see the moderator,

[48:30] too. So you have three people present

[48:33] and so the at all the other speaking

[48:35] occasions you just have one candidate so

[48:37] that people can learn about these

[48:39] individuals seeing them side by side and

[48:41] hearing what they have to say. Does that

[48:44] close quarter and the fact that it is

[48:47] such a high stakes moment make the use

[48:49] of sarcasm, humor, even flashes of anger

[48:54] potentially riskier or hold potentially

[48:56] greater payoff? I think it makes it

[48:59] riskier and and you see different

[49:01] interpretations of particularly of the

[49:04] way McCain in his attacks on Obama uh

[49:07] used his voice and his facial

[49:09] expression. So with some people

[49:11] interpreting it him as not only

[49:13] aggressive but also mean-spirited when

[49:16] he would attack uh Senator uh Obama

[49:19] whereas Obama was described as calm and

[49:22] cool and quiet. And so, uh, it sounds

[49:27] like that there's a sort of level of

[49:29] tolerance that people have for, uh,

[49:31] aggressiveness or or a sort of, uh,

[49:34] punchy attacking style in the seated

[49:38] format. Now, I must say that was also a

[49:40] criticism in the other formats where,

[49:43] for example, you had a more formal

[49:45] setting with the podiums, the the

[49:47] speakers behind the podiums in the first

[49:49] debate. The second debate was the town

[49:51] hall debate, but in the first one too,

[49:53] uh, Senator M. McCain was criticized for

[49:56] being having a kind of mean-spirited

[49:58] tone. But others could just say that's

[50:00] toughness. And so the interpretation is

[50:02] different.

[50:03] >> Professor Jameson, John McCain said

[50:05] today that the star of last night's

[50:07] debate was Joe the plumber. And as a

[50:10] piece of persuasion, as someone who

[50:12] sifts through language and tries to

[50:14] understand why people bring up the

[50:16] things they do, what role was Joe the

[50:18] plumber playing last night?

[50:19] >> Joe the plumber helped Senator McCain

[50:21] control part of the agenda of the

[50:23] debate. But Joe the plumber also set up

[50:26] a very concrete example that both

[50:29] campaigns could now play through in the

[50:31] following days. And what we're going to

[50:33] find out as the fact checkers sort the

[50:35] world out is that if Joe the plumber

[50:38] only makes $40,000 a year, he in fact

[50:40] benefits more from Senator Obama's plans

[50:43] than he does from Senator McCain's. If,

[50:45] however, he founds his business and he

[50:47] makes more than $250,000.

[50:49] Well, you know, he's going to see a tax

[50:51] increase from Senator Obama. And on the

[50:53] health care plan, we found an area of

[50:54] real confusion because Senator Obama

[50:57] hasn't specified when people are going

[50:59] to be paying a fine. How many people

[51:01] have to be in a business to call it a

[51:03] small business? How much dollar amount

[51:05] does the business have to have to be

[51:06] classified small business? So when

[51:08] Senator Obama says, "Well, small

[51:09] businesses are exempted, Joe. Don't

[51:11] worry." The fact checkers and news

[51:13] people are now saying, "But Senator

[51:14] Obama, you haven't specified what

[51:16] constitutes a small business. That may

[51:18] actually advance this dialogue." So Joe

[51:20] has made concrete very abstract

[51:23] proposals and as a result I think he's

[51:25] advanced this process very importantly

[51:27] >> made them concrete but also uh as as

[51:31] someone as a as a symbol as a living

[51:33] symbol was he meant to be evocative of a

[51:36] certain kind of American just the fact

[51:38] that we were calling him Joe

[51:39] >> Joe the plumber we all know plumbers and

[51:41] so of course we can all relate to that

[51:43] and the uh I think it goes way beyond a

[51:46] sound bite and that this will be the

[51:47] best remembered of the three debates

[51:49] because of Joe the plumber because we

[51:51] can all the the term was used many

[51:54] times. We can all identify with with Joe

[51:57] the plumber and as uh Professor Jameson

[52:00] has talked about it it was uh woven

[52:03] through the issues that were discussed u

[52:06] having to do with uh with the economy

[52:09] having to do with uh the positions of

[52:11] the different candidates. I the way uh

[52:13] Senator Obama picked up on it. You're

[52:15] you're right. Senator McCain changed the

[52:18] agenda by bringing him up, but Senator

[52:20] Obama then uh joined in with Joe the

[52:23] plumber. So, I think stylistically and

[52:25] in terms of of the arguments uh that and

[52:28] even the organization Joe the plumber uh

[52:31] had an influence on last night's debate.

[52:33] >> Professor Kendall, Professor Jameson,

[52:34] thank you both. You're welcome.

[52:36] >> You're welcome.

[52:44] And again, the other major developments

[52:46] of this day, Wall Street had another

[52:48] wild swing. The Dow Jones Industrial

[52:50] Average fell nearly 400 points early,

[52:53] but it ended with a gain of 400. And

[52:56] Treasury Secretary Pollson acknowledged

[52:58] many errors led to the financial crisis,

[53:00] but he voiced confidence in the

[53:02] government's rescue effort.

[53:11] And once again to our honor role of

[53:13] American service personnel killed in

[53:16] Iraq and Afghanistan. We add them as

[53:19] their deaths are made official and

[53:20] photographs become available. Here in

[53:23] silence are 10 more.

[54:23] We'll see you online and again here

[54:25] tomorrow evening with Mark Shields and

[54:26] David Brooks among others. I'm Jim Lara.

[54:29] Thank you and good night.

[54:38] Major funding for the NewsHour with Jim

[54:40] Ler is provided by

[54:44] The World is changing.

[54:46] And how we use energy today cannot be

[54:49] how we use it tomorrow. There is no one

[54:52] solution. It's not simply more oil, more

[54:56] renewables, or being more efficient.

[54:59] It's all of it. Our way of life depends

[55:01] on developing all forms of energy.

[55:04] and to use less of it. It's time to put

[55:07] our differences aside. Will you be part

[55:10] of the solution? Chevron, human energy.

[55:16] When someone you count on is not

[55:18] responsive, bad things could happen.

[55:21] Grant Thornton believes it's important

[55:22] to be responsive through direct client

[55:25] access to our partners. Grant Thornton,

[55:30] >> Pacific Light,

[55:35] >> Vestus,

[55:39] >> and the National Science Fountain.

[55:41] >> Spirit Mountain.

[55:42] >> You are a coyote. Only bipeds go to

[55:44] Spirit Mountain.

[55:44] >> Spirit Mountain's bigger silence, more

[55:46] slots, more tables, new bigger buffet,

[55:48] and bingo back.

[55:49] >> Kyo T. Wait, how about this? Always the

[55:52] mental run of the letter. Oregon's

[55:54] biggest casino expanded enormously. The

[55:56] host spots and the new 450 seat cedar

[55:59] plank buffet.

[56:00] >> Emer International. Raising, leveling,

[56:02] and moving the world one house at a

[56:04] time. Do you have uneven floors, wall

[56:06] cracks above doors or windows? Your

[56:08] foundation may be settling or cracking.

[56:10] Emir can help you stabilize, raise, or

[56:12] replace your home's foundation. For over

[56:15] 40 years, Emir has helped homeowners

[56:17] safely restore and improve their home

[56:19] investment, even doubling the square

[56:20] footage by adding a basement. Emir has

[56:23] the experience to repair and stabilize

[56:25] your most valuable asset. Call Emer

[56:27] International today.

[56:30] I've been sent into harm's way before

[56:32] because of unpermitted work. The fact is

[56:34] that building permits and the

[56:35] accompanying safety inspections protect

[56:37] the lives of your family, neighbors, and

[56:39] firefighters.

[56:41] Measure 63 is poorly written and would

[56:44] take away these essential safety

[56:45] measures.

[56:47] Measure 63 would even allow dangerous

[56:49] unpermitted work on electrical wiring,

[56:51] structural supports, and gas lines.

[56:55] >> For a safe home and peace of mind, vote

[56:57] no on Measure 63. The grand opening of

[57:00] Oregon's largest flooring center just

[57:02] south 503 Carpets.