CNN Newsroom - 2006-11-05 (early morning) - 2 of 2
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:00] eagerness for revenge. The initial phase
[0:03] of the war gave Americans a sense of
[0:06] triumph, shock and awe.
[0:10] >> Goodbye, Saddam.
[0:12] >> The statue of Sodom Hussein being torn
[0:14] down in Baghdad. That's a positive
[0:17] image.
[0:18] >> We got him.
[0:21] the image of voters holding up the
[0:24] purple uh die showing their enthusiasm
[0:28] for democracy. Those are the images they
[0:30] want you to see. The image of a
[0:33] functioning democracy.
[0:36] The looting was a symbol that we weren't
[0:40] in control of Bang. Wait a second.
[0:43] What's going on here?
[0:45] >> Are we going to have anarchy now?
[0:50] Major combat operations in Iraq have
[0:52] ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United
[0:56] States and our allies have prevailed.
[1:00] >> These public images, which may work
[1:01] temporarily and may win you some votes
[1:04] at the moment, if it doesn't prove to be
[1:07] a reality, it's going to open you to
[1:10] ridicule.
[1:12] You go to war with the army you have,
[1:15] not the army you might want or wish to
[1:17] have at a later time.
[1:20] >> Abu Grae is very unfortunate. It's a war
[1:24] of images. And so this gave the uh
[1:27] insurgents a chance to uh use Abdul Grae
[1:31] as a powerful propaganda tool.
[1:36] >> Get out. GET OUT.
[1:40] I THINK THEY'RE in the in the last
[1:42] throws, if you will, of the insurgency.
[1:47] >> There's plenty of evidence civilians
[1:49] were killed in Hadith. 24 bodies were
[1:52] counted.
[1:54] >> Last evening, US forces killed
[1:59] Habu Musadar Kawi, the leading terrorist
[2:03] in Iraq.
[2:04] >> Our goals are unchanging.
[2:07] We are flexible in our methods to
[2:09] achieving those goals.
[2:11] >> What's happened now is that the public
[2:14] looks at the daily scenes of carnage in
[2:17] Iraq and what it sees is failure to
[2:21] achieve quote unquote victory. Rhetoric
[2:24] language cannot trump reality.
[2:30] Images from the past three years and
[2:32] seven months here in Iraq. And every
[2:35] day, events here echo across the US
[2:37] political campaign. Coming up in our war
[2:39] of words segment, I'll get both sides of
[2:41] the debate from Republican Congressman
[2:43] Duncan Hunter and Democratic Congressman
[2:45] John Murtha. I'm John Roberts in
[2:47] Baghdad. This week at war, the Iraq
[2:50] effect.
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[5:40] Here
[5:48] in Baghdad, you can feel the impact of
[5:50] the war every day. But what's the impact
[5:52] on the political debate in Washington
[5:54] and around the United States? We want to
[5:56] hear from two dominant voices in the
[5:58] Iraq debate. Chairman of the House Armed
[6:00] Services Committee, Duncan Hunter,
[6:01] Republican of California, and John
[6:03] Murth, a Democrat of Pennsylvania.
[6:05] First, let's go to Congressman Hunter.
[6:06] And Congressman Hunter, I want to share
[6:07] with our viewers the results of a recent
[6:09] CNN poll conducted October 27th through
[6:12] the 29th, just a few days ago. When
[6:13] asked, should the US change strategy and
[6:16] tactics in Iraq? 68% of Americans said
[6:20] that they either want a complete
[6:21] overhaul or major changes. Earlier this
[6:24] week, you announced that you're going to
[6:25] take a run for the White House in 2008.
[6:28] As commanderin-chief, how would you
[6:30] handle Iraq? Would you make significant
[6:32] changes from the plan on the ground now?
[6:34] Well, I don't think I have to wait uh
[6:36] for that run to to weigh into this uh
[6:38] this debate over the over the policy and
[6:41] strategy. I've sent a letter to the
[6:43] president and to Secretary Rumsfeld uh a
[6:45] week and a half ago that uh that said
[6:48] this. We have 114 Iraqi battalions that
[6:51] we've now stood up, trained, and
[6:53] equipped. Uh right now, uh you've got
[6:55] the major fight going on in Baghdad and
[6:57] a couple of other areas. the best way to
[7:00] stand up a military. And that's what
[7:01] we're doing right now in this three-step
[7:03] process. We stood up a free government,
[7:05] we stand up a military, and then we
[7:07] leave. And standing up the military is a
[7:09] second step. It's one we're in right
[7:11] now. My recommendation is that we send a
[7:14] large portion of those 114 battalions,
[7:16] Iraqi battalions, trained and equipped
[7:19] into this fight in Baghdad. It gives
[7:21] them unit cohesiveness. It develops
[7:23] their leadership. It gives them combat
[7:25] effectiveness. And the best way to
[7:26] produce a military force that's
[7:28] efficient is to put them into combat
[7:30] operations. And I'll tell you something
[7:32] else about the Republican the the Iraq
[7:34] effect. I' I've been listening to your
[7:36] show. Uh I think that uh that Senator
[7:39] K's words have had an effect on this
[7:41] debate. My son, who did did two tours in
[7:44] Iraq, the last in Fallujah as a Marine,
[7:47] said the other day, he said, "Looks like
[7:48] the Democrats have provided their own
[7:50] October surprise." And if you saw that
[7:52] statement coming out of the Minnesota
[7:54] National Guard who are with the troop
[7:56] who are there in Iraq where they mocked
[7:58] Senator Kerry, I think the Republicans
[8:01] who weren't going to go to the polls uh
[8:03] now have uh have a little resurgence uh
[8:06] of uh of initiative in terms of going to
[8:08] the polls, taking on the Democrats. Uh I
[8:11] think this is going to be an election
[8:12] that is not dampened as much as you've
[8:15] predicted. A recent assessment from the
[8:17] US military showed a meter of the
[8:19] situation in Iraq and that that meter is
[8:21] pushing toward the red zone, pushing
[8:24] toward chaos despite all of the best
[8:26] efforts of the US military and the
[8:28] efforts to stand up Iraqi forces because
[8:30] that meter is moving in that direction,
[8:32] continues to move in that direction.
[8:33] Does there not need to be a significant
[8:35] shift on the ground here? Well, the
[8:37] whole point is that that the way that
[8:39] you that you develop a an effective
[8:41] operating military force is by putting
[8:43] them in military operations. You've got
[8:45] about 35 battalions that are in the
[8:48] fight in and around Baghdad right now.
[8:50] Iraqi battalions. You take another large
[8:52] tunch of those battalions, some of which
[8:54] are down in areas where there is no
[8:56] danger right now. A very benign
[8:58] environments. You truck them up to
[8:59] Baghdad. You get them in the fight. That
[9:02] develops their leaders. That develops
[9:03] unit cohesiveness. It makes them into a
[9:05] combat force. Let me get you to give uh
[9:08] me a quick grade here on how you think
[9:10] things are going in terms of US military
[9:11] operations, the Iraqi government, and
[9:14] reconstruction. very quickly if you
[9:15] could.
[9:15] >> Sure. Sure. Very quickly. I think it's
[9:17] uh I think it's a tough, hard,
[9:20] difficult, and dangerous work. I think
[9:23] it's necessary. And I think if you show
[9:25] wallto-wall uh coverage of Iraq of the
[9:28] of flaming Humvees, you're always going
[9:30] to have some dampening effect on the
[9:32] population. But I think most Americans
[9:34] understand the Republican party built
[9:37] our national defense capability that is
[9:39] second to none. We put over a hundred
[9:42] million or hundred billion dollars a
[9:44] year more than the Clinton
[9:45] administration did. Not not counting
[9:47] Iraq and Afghanistan into defense. They
[9:50] know they can rely on Republicans for
[9:52] national security. I think that's what
[9:54] they're going to remember when they go
[9:55] to the polls on Tuesday. And I hope that
[9:57] every American remembers John Kerry's
[9:59] statement and votes Republican.
[10:02] >> Congressman Ducken Hunter, chairman of
[10:03] the House Armed Services Committee.
[10:04] Thanks very much for joining us. Good
[10:06] luck in 2008, by the way.
[10:07] >> Thank you, John. Appreciate it. Now, the
[10:09] other side of the Iraq effect divide,
[10:11] Congressman John Murth, Democrat of
[10:13] Pennsylvania, joins us. Congressman
[10:14] Murtha, give me a quick grading of where
[10:16] you think uh the operations in Iraq are
[10:18] in terms of the US military, the
[10:20] development of the Iraqi government, and
[10:22] reconstruction here.
[10:24] >> Yeah. Well, let me let me say that uh I
[10:26] hear winning. I hear victory. I hear
[10:29] democracy. Those are all goals. Those
[10:31] are not strategies. I hear no strategy.
[10:34] The other day I heard the majority
[10:36] leader of the Republican Congress say it
[10:38] was a military's fault and he blamed the
[10:40] military for the problems we're having
[10:41] in Iraq. And and just today I saw a
[10:44] statement by General Sanchez, former
[10:45] commander in Iraq, who said the military
[10:48] does what it's told to do. They try to
[10:50] develop a strategy. Now, here here's the
[10:52] problem we have in Iraq. We we have a
[10:54] reactive situation where they're
[10:55] protecting static positions, where the
[10:58] enemy controls the initiative and our
[11:00] troops are caught in a civil war. Things
[11:02] have gotten worse every day. You're over
[11:04] there. When I was over a couple times at
[11:07] first, you could walk the streets. You
[11:09] could drive through the streets. The
[11:10] last time I was there, you couldn't
[11:12] drive. They they flew me from the
[11:13] airport 5 minutes away to the green
[11:15] zone. The government is is protected by
[11:17] the green zone. Most of the Iraqis want
[11:20] us out of there. The American public,
[11:22] only 27% support this policy. We're
[11:24] spending $8 billion a month, $1 million
[11:28] an hour. Now, when I'm out in the
[11:30] campaign trail and and when I'm out
[11:32] talking to people, they tell me, "We got
[11:34] all kinds of problem. We got Medicare.
[11:35] We've got health care. We've got
[11:37] educational benefits." None of those
[11:39] things can be solved till we work this
[11:41] out in in in Iraq. The way that things
[11:44] are in Iraq right now, with the US
[11:46] troops in many places being the only
[11:48] thing that is stopping this country from
[11:50] tipping into allout civil war, wouldn't
[11:52] a redeployment of US troops at this
[11:55] point be disastrous?
[11:57] John, I I don't believe that. I don't
[11:59] just because the White House says that,
[12:01] just because a lot of people say that, I
[12:03] don't believe that. I believe the Iraqis
[12:05] say in the polls it will be more stable
[12:08] when the Americans redeploy when when we
[12:10] when we get rid of the occupation. Uh
[12:12] there's no question in my mind that
[12:14] there's only a few al-Qaeda there. It's
[12:16] Sunnis fighting Shia and we're caught in
[12:19] between and we're providing the fodder
[12:21] for for the al-Qaeda to recruit people.
[12:24] So there's more terrorism in Iraq than
[12:26] there was before we went in. Last year
[12:28] when I spoke out in November, there were
[12:30] eight there were 400 incidents a week,
[12:32] 400 attacks a week. Now there's 800
[12:34] attacks a week. We've had 130,000 people
[12:36] on the ground for three and a half
[12:38] almost four years now. And so it's
[12:40] gotten worse rather than better. Oil
[12:42] production, electricity production,
[12:44] water, potable water, all those things
[12:46] are below pre pre-war level. So we
[12:49] haven't made the progress we need. Our
[12:51] troops deserve an achievable goal, an
[12:53] achievable policy, an achievable
[12:55] strategy. We don't have that.
[12:57] >> You heard what Congressman Hunter was
[12:58] talking about a couple of minutes ago,
[13:00] that botch joke that John Kerry made
[13:02] earlier this week and in which
[13:04] Republicans have said he was disparaging
[13:06] US troops by saying if you don't have a
[13:08] good education, you get stuck in Iraq.
[13:10] Uh Senator Kerry said that he really
[13:12] meant he was talking about President
[13:13] Bush. But has that impacted the
[13:16] Democratic party negatively at the most
[13:18] critical time in this election?
[13:21] Well, it it was a distraction. It was
[13:23] unfortunate that that Senator Kerry
[13:25] would would make those comments. Uh uh
[13:27] I'm sure none of us uh you look him in
[13:30] the eye. No, everybody believes that
[13:32] that Senator Kerry didn't mean to
[13:34] disparage the troops. All of us are
[13:36] inspired by the troops, the hardships
[13:38] they're going through, the suffering the
[13:40] families are going through, the
[13:41] psychological problems that they have
[13:43] when they come home. All of us
[13:45] appreciate that. All of us try to
[13:46] support. As a matter of fact, uh, most
[13:48] of the Democrats in Congress voted
[13:50] against going to war because they felt
[13:52] they couldn't trust the president. I
[13:54] voted for it. I made a mistake. And
[13:56] then, uh, uh, when it comes to the
[13:57] funding though, uh, only 22 members,
[14:01] Democrats voted against the funding. So,
[14:04] so, uh, you know, they voted against the
[14:05] war, but then they turned around and
[14:07] voted for the funding. So, so they voted
[14:10] for the funding, uh, most of them,
[14:11] because they know we want to support the
[14:13] troops. National Guard units. Almost
[14:15] every unit combat unit in the whole
[14:17] country has been already deployed and
[14:18] all we can deploy now are are
[14:20] individuals from individual units. So,
[14:22] uh, you know, if we're going to rebuild
[14:24] the military, if we're going to
[14:26] reestablish our credibility in the
[14:27] Middle East, we have to do that by
[14:29] redeploying our troops and let the
[14:31] Iraqis work this out themselves.
[14:34] And I've heard from a lot of troops as
[14:36] they prepare to rotate out after a year
[14:37] in Iraq, even that striker brigade that
[14:39] got extended for four months. Are they
[14:41] suddenly going to get the word that they
[14:42] have to stay a few months more?
[14:43] Congressman Martha, thanks very much.
[14:45] Appreciate your time, sir. At the heart
[14:47] of the Iraq effect is what plays out
[14:49] here every day. 140,000 plus members of
[14:52] the US military pushing forward their
[14:54] mission. Straight ahead, military
[14:56] analyst General Spider maps out what's
[14:59] happening on the ground.
[15:02] The Iraq effect, dollars and cents. For
[15:05] 2002, the US Congress appropriated $2.5
[15:08] billion dollars for the war. For 2006,
[15:12] that soared to almost 102 billion, total
[15:16] close to $320 billion.
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[17:40] >> The Iraq effect. US troop levels from
[17:45] 150,000 in May of 2003 down to 115,000
[17:50] in 2004,
[17:52] fluctuating now around 144,000.
[17:57] I'm John Roberts in Baghdad. As voters
[18:00] and politicians weigh the Iraq effect in
[18:02] the final countdown to the US midterm
[18:04] elections, what is the military side of
[18:06] the equation? Helping us map that out,
[18:09] CNN military analyst, Brigadier General
[18:11] James Spider Marks, US Army retired in
[18:13] our Washington bureau. Spider, on the
[18:16] eve of the election, where are the US
[18:17] forces in Iraq right now? John, let me
[18:20] take you to the map and show you where
[18:21] the US forces are located. And I'm going
[18:24] to show you their forward operating
[18:26] bases and their camps as they exist in
[18:28] Iraq right now. And as you can see, they
[18:30] extend from close to the border of
[18:33] Kuwait all the way up to Mosul and out
[18:36] to K2, which is an airfield out in
[18:38] western Iraq. That's where they're
[18:40] currently located.
[18:41] >> And what are the options, Spider, if
[18:43] they needed to move the troops around,
[18:44] how could they move them?
[18:46] >> Well, John, I think what's really
[18:47] important is when you the discussion
[18:49] always concentrates around the number of
[18:52] boots on the ground. So if the number of
[18:54] boots physically on the ground does not
[18:57] increase, how do you increase boots in
[18:59] very specific locations? Let me show you
[19:01] a possibility on where US forces could
[19:04] be concentrated to achieve maximum
[19:06] effect on the ground. These are four
[19:09] specific locations. They are
[19:11] representative of where US forces should
[19:14] be concentrated and could be
[19:16] concentrated based on conditions on the
[19:18] ground. Now, what that provides you is
[19:21] what I would describe as an oil stain
[19:23] effect. That is to say, you crack the
[19:26] nut when you went into a rock. Now, you
[19:28] achieve a presence in some very specific
[19:31] locations. I recommend these four and
[19:33] then you work your way out. Concentrate
[19:36] forces inside and then work to make
[19:38] adjustments and fixes on the ground from
[19:40] the inside out. John,
[19:42] >> and what has been the difficulty,
[19:43] Spider, uh, in in the war and up until
[19:46] present with these long lines of
[19:48] communication throughout Iraq and also
[19:50] in and out of Iraq? John, what many fail
[19:52] to realize is this is a very large um,
[19:56] area of operations. Support comes out of
[19:59] Kuwait in the form of air traffic up
[20:01] into Baghdad and that's about 300 air
[20:04] miles. Additionally, what happens is you
[20:06] have to take a look at what the ground
[20:08] lines of communication look like coming
[20:11] out of Kuwait up through Naseria and
[20:14] then into Baghdad along the Euphrates or
[20:16] north of the Tigris. That's about 400
[20:19] miles. This is a very large, very long
[20:22] exposed line of communications for
[20:24] convoys and vehicles to make it from
[20:27] Kuwait where the support is up into
[20:28] Baghdad. And then additionally, John,
[20:31] you have air traffic that comes out of
[20:33] Qatar and elsewhere in the greater
[20:35] southwest southwest Asia region into
[20:38] Baghdad. And then also of significance
[20:40] is a large amount of support comes out
[20:43] of central Europe or our presence in
[20:46] Germany and that flies in in many cases
[20:48] directly into Mosul. So the theater of
[20:51] operations is more than just Iraq
[20:54] itself.
[20:56] We also want to bring in our CNN senior
[20:58] Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
[21:00] And Jamie, looking ahead, this uh report
[21:03] from the Iraq Study Group headed up by
[21:05] former Secretary of State James Baker is
[21:07] expected to release its results which
[21:10] will suggest some changes in the future
[21:12] that'll be coming out in the next couple
[21:13] of weeks. What's the sense at the
[21:14] Pentagon? Is there a major change
[21:16] coming? They're just waiting until after
[21:18] the midterm elections.
[21:19] >> Well, you know, they're really waiting
[21:20] to see what Secretary Baker comes up
[21:22] with. and he's holding his cards pretty
[21:24] close to the vest. He's been getting a
[21:26] lot of dire assessments from people on
[21:28] the ground. And what the administration
[21:31] is sort of warning against is a major
[21:33] course correction. They haven't said
[21:35] that they will automatically adopt
[21:37] whatever the uh Iraq study group comes
[21:39] up with. They're they're really waiting
[21:41] to see what they propose. And and Spider
[21:43] Marks, what what do you think is in the
[21:44] cards here? redeployment of the current
[21:46] forces, adding more US troops, perhaps
[21:49] just accelerating the pace of developing
[21:51] these Iraqi forces. John, I don't think
[21:54] it's a withdrawal. It's certainly not a
[21:56] cut and run as many have said, and I
[21:59] doubt very seriously that it's a
[22:01] dramatic increase in the aggregate
[22:03] numbers that are on the ground. What I
[22:04] do think is going to happen is the
[22:06] numbers are probably set right now.
[22:08] There may be an adjustment a little bit
[22:10] upwards and the mix of those forces may
[22:13] change as we've discussed before in
[22:15] terms of the number of forces available
[22:17] to do additional training for Iraqi
[22:19] forces because that's the key and the
[22:21] other piece is there may be some
[22:23] adjustments in terms of where they're
[22:25] physically located on the ground again
[22:27] as we've discussed in some uh some
[22:28] degree of detail. Jamie McIntyre, the
[22:31] Baker report is expected to suggest
[22:33] intensive diplomatic engagement with
[22:35] America's enemies, that being Syria and
[22:38] Iran. It that so far that concept has
[22:40] been anathema to this administration,
[22:42] but because of the situation on the
[22:44] ground, might they be forced to talk
[22:47] with Iran and Syria?
[22:48] >> Well, they certainly might be forced to
[22:49] consider a lot of uh options that they
[22:51] found unpalatable in the past simply
[22:54] because the trend hasn't been uh good.
[22:57] We saw this week the the release of a uh
[23:00] uh internal briefing slide that
[23:01] indicated Iraq sliding more toward chaos
[23:04] and away from peace. And while uh the US
[23:07] military says that was a single day
[23:09] snapshot, uh it still was indicative of
[23:12] a trend where they see things in the
[23:14] short term getting worse, not better.
[23:16] And that Baker report, as we said,
[23:17] coming out sometime after the midterm
[23:19] election, sometime in the next couple of
[23:21] weeks, and of course, we'll be covering
[23:22] that here on this week at war. Jamie
[23:24] McIntyre at the Pentagon. Spider Marks,
[23:26] thanks very much. Appreciate it. Thanks,
[23:27] John.
[23:28] >> We won't know the full impact of the
[23:29] Iraq effect until the votes are counted
[23:31] after Tuesday's election, but some
[23:33] Iraqis say they already know how we got
[23:35] this far through mistakes and
[23:37] miscalculations. I'll talk with Foreign
[23:39] Minister Hashiar Zabari in just a
[23:41] moment. But first, more voices from US
[23:44] troops in Iraq on this week at war.
[23:47] >> Well, this is my chosen profession. I
[23:49] knew I knew this was going to be I mean,
[23:51] everybody wants to be home, but this is
[23:52] what I do. It's okay. I mean, I talk to
[23:55] my family a lot. We have email. We have
[23:57] all that stuff. So, it's not as bad as
[23:59] it, you know, could be.
[24:03] >> Your vote, your health. Dr. Sanjay Gupta
[24:05] investigates the medical issues on the
[24:06] ballot and what's at stake for your
[24:08] family. A special edition of House Call.
[24:10] CNN tomorrow, 8 Eastern. He brought our
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[24:59] and liquor companies. Just like his
[25:01] favorite Republican, George W. Bush.
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[26:14] Days till the elections. The latest on
[26:16] the tightest races. Larry King tomorrow.
[26:19] >> Voting is a responsibility for all of
[26:22] us. For families who've lost loved ones
[26:24] in the Iraq war, this election carries
[26:26] with it special weight. We've profiled
[26:28] some of the men and women killed in Iraq
[26:30] and have spoken with their families. We
[26:32] checked back with some this week asking
[26:34] how their loss may affect their vote.
[26:37] One was Julio Tahada of New York. His
[26:39] stepson, Staff Sergeant Ryan Tahada,
[26:41] assigned to the third battalion, Fifth
[26:43] Marine Regiment, was killed in April of
[26:45] 2003 in northeast Baghdad.
[26:49] Tuesday morning when I go to work,
[26:54] I'm going to be thinking a lot about
[26:55] myself.
[26:58] I going to remember him more than ever.
[27:00] It's time to change. It's time to think
[27:02] about it.
[27:04] There's also Yolanda Kuming. Her son
[27:07] Kevin was with the First Squadron,
[27:08] Seventh Cavalry Regiment, First Cavalry
[27:10] Division out of Fort Hood, Texas. He was
[27:13] killed when his patrol came under attack
[27:15] in Baghdad in August of 2004.
[27:18] She says she doesn't like any of the
[27:20] election choices.
[27:22] Losing Kevin
[27:24] left me a different person and I and
[27:28] you'll never be the same anymore. You
[27:30] know, you just lose your child.
[27:33] I am confused about it because although
[27:36] I do believe we should be there but then
[27:39] how many more soldiers would get killed
[27:41] doing this.
[27:43] Um so I I don't know nobody has a really
[27:46] an answer and finish this war and bring
[27:49] the troops home. That's what I want to
[27:51] hear. That's what most Americans want to
[27:54] hear.
[27:56] >> Gold Star families feeling the Iraq
[27:58] effect from the homeront to the
[28:01] warfront. Now, in recent days, Iraq's
[28:03] leadership has repeatedly been at odds
[28:05] with the United States, flexing its
[28:06] muscles, anxious to demonstrate its
[28:08] independence to the Iraqi people. And
[28:10] one Iraqi minister, a true friend of
[28:12] America, has been uncharacteristically
[28:15] critical recently about how the White
[28:17] House and the Pentagon have handled
[28:18] Iraq. On Wednesday, I sat down with
[28:21] Foreign Minister Hashir Zabari occurred
[28:23] to ask him about the ways in which the
[28:25] administration has contributed to the
[28:27] Iraq effect.
[28:29] Mr. Barry, in a recent interview, you
[28:31] said regarding the violence in Iraq that
[28:33] had our friends listened to us, we
[28:36] wouldn't be where we are today.
[28:37] >> We've been warning the administration
[28:39] for quite some times, the easiest part
[28:42] is to get rid of Saddam. We were ready
[28:45] at the time to help to contribute
[28:47] significantly.
[28:49] But uh when the CPI was established, in
[28:52] fact they wanted to run the country
[28:56] and the Iraqi role was uh not a major
[29:00] role.
[29:01] >> Your statement, Mr. Zubari, suggests
[29:03] that mistakes were made. What to you was
[29:06] the biggest mistake?
[29:07] >> The mother of all mistakes was changing
[29:09] that mission from liberation to
[29:12] occupation. We were scheming for God's
[29:14] sake, don't do it. Even we who have been
[29:18] supportive of this effort of regime
[29:20] change really our position would be
[29:24] untenable
[29:25] because the idea of occupation is not
[29:28] acceptable.
[29:29] >> When comes the point when you must ask
[29:31] them to go.
[29:32] >> The point will come definitely whenever
[29:36] the Iraqi forces are ready whenever we
[29:40] have sufficient control.
[29:42] >> And when is that?
[29:43] >> When is that? Well, this is the
[29:45] question. That's the question.
[29:46] >> That is the problem. Look at the last
[29:48] three years.
[29:51] >> Okay. The last three years have been one
[29:54] of error and trials.
[29:57] Okay.
[29:57] >> More errors.
[29:59] >> More errors I believe.
[30:00] >> Let me ask you for a very frank answer
[30:02] on this. The presence of coalition
[30:03] forces in Iraq, is it a security factor
[30:06] or is it an aggravating factor?
[30:09] >> I personally believe uh it's a security
[30:13] factor. is very important. The stakes
[30:16] are too high and the security of the
[30:18] entire region depends on success of
[30:21] Iraq.
[30:24] Iraqi foreign minister Hashir Zabari. Up
[30:27] next, some personal observations on this
[30:29] week at war, the Iraq effect. But first,
[30:31] another voice from US troops in Iraq.
[30:35] >> During the day, everybody's really nice.
[30:38] Um, waves of kids come out and
[30:40] everything. Uh we pass out soccer balls
[30:42] and everything like that to them. It's
[30:44] at night where it kind of gets exciting.
[30:46] Like I said, just down the road, one of
[30:48] my soldiers got killed by an IED.
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[32:26] With the midterm elections almost upon
[32:28] us, there is much for voters to consider
[32:30] in the next couple of days. A few things
[32:33] to consider now from the Iraq
[32:35] perspective.
[32:41] >> On the streets of Baghdad and in the
[32:43] towns and villages that surround it, the
[32:45] overwhelming impact of the Iraq effect
[32:47] on ordinary people is fear. Fear of
[32:51] death squads that roam the streets,
[32:52] killing and kidnapping. Fear of militias
[32:55] engaged in a campaign of ethnic
[32:57] cleansing to drive either Sunnis or
[32:59] Shiites from the neighborhoods. fear of
[33:02] government forces they don't trust to
[33:04] keep them safe.
[33:09] >> This Sunni woman claims national police
[33:11] kidnapped her brother at a checkpoint.
[33:13] She appeals to American troops for help.
[33:17] >> US soldiers attempt to get between the
[33:19] waring sides and restore security. But
[33:22] despite the American efforts, people
[33:24] here feel far less safe now than a year
[33:26] ago.
[33:27] >> Personally, yeah, it's frustrating. You
[33:29] know, I'm US Army officer. We like to
[33:31] think we can leave tall buildings with a
[33:34] single bound, and it's unrealistic.
[33:36] >> More than 2800 US troops have died in
[33:40] that frustrating mission to establish
[33:41] peace here. Soldiers like Sergeant Will
[33:44] Mock, 23 years old, from Harper, Kansas.
[33:47] CNN's Arwa Damon met him two years ago
[33:50] on his first tour of duty here. Mach was
[33:52] a confident leader who genuinely
[33:54] believed in the idea he could help make
[33:56] Iraq a better place.
[33:58] something that
[34:00] when I was a little boy, I had heard my
[34:03] grandfather once say and uh somebody's
[34:07] got to do it.
[34:10] I guess I'm that somebody.
[34:13] >> Sergeant Mock came back to Iraq 3 months
[34:16] ago, assigned to the dangerous
[34:17] neighborhoods of eastern Baghdad. His
[34:20] mission ended on October 22nd when he
[34:23] was killed by a roadside bomb.
[34:28] We sometimes get lost in the numbers,
[34:30] but behind each and every impersonal
[34:32] statistic is a face and a life.
[34:37] Thanks for joining us on our special
[34:38] this week at war, the Iraq effect. I'm
[34:41] John Roberts reporting from Baghdad. Be
[34:43] sure to stay with CNN for the latest on
[34:45] the war in Iraq and our America Votes
[34:47] 2006 election coverage.
[35:13] The past comes full circle to haunt
[35:16] Saddam Hussein as the world awaits a
[35:18] verdict in his trial for crimes against
[35:20] humanity.
[35:23] It's 11:00 a.m. in the Iraqi capital
[35:25] now. I'm Steven Frasier at CNN Center.
[35:28] We'd like to welcome our viewers in the
[35:29] United States and around the world.
[35:38] We are waiting for verdicts in the first
[35:40] trial of Saddam Hussein and seven other
[35:43] people. The former president and his
[35:44] codefendants all charged with crimes
[35:46] against humanity for the D jail
[35:48] crackdown in 1982. Hussein could face
[35:51] the death penalty if he's found guilty
[35:52] in the deaths of 148 villagers. A strict
[35:56] curfew for Baghdad and two neighboring
[35:58] provinces has been placed in effect to
[36:00] prevent any violence. All vehicles, even
[36:03] all pedestrians, are banned from the
[36:05] streets until further notice. back then
[36:07] in