The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1993-04-12

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:01] Somalia.

[0:02] >> Funding for the McNeel NewsHour has been

[0:04] provided by Pepsico.

[0:21] Part of helping the world live and

[0:22] communicate better is keeping it well

[0:24] informed. That's why funding for the

[0:26] NewsHour is also provided by AT&T.

[0:30] and by the Corporation for Public

[0:31] Broadcasting and viewers like you.

[0:35] >> There were new developments in the siege

[0:37] at a maximum security prison in

[0:38] Lucasville, Ohio, about 80 mi south of

[0:41] Columbus. A sixth inmate was found dead

[0:43] after his body was thrown from a cell

[0:46] block door. All six were believed to

[0:48] have been beaten to death by other

[0:50] prisoners. Authorities said the uprising

[0:52] began as a fight during a recreation

[0:54] period Sunday afternoon. 19 people have

[0:57] been injured and eight guards are still

[0:59] being held hostage. The area involved

[1:02] houses almost 500 of the 1,800 inmates

[1:05] at the prison. Authorities have sealed

[1:07] off that section and cut power and

[1:09] water. The inmates have listed 19

[1:11] demands mostly related to changes in

[1:13] prison rules. In Jackson, Michigan at

[1:16] another maximum security prison 70 mi

[1:18] west of Detroit, four guards were

[1:21] stabbed by inmates today. Authorities

[1:23] said the attack appeared to be planned.

[1:25] There was no word on the guard's

[1:26] condition, did he?

[1:28] >> United Nations officials said today that

[1:30] food supplies for refugees in Bosnia are

[1:33] running desperately low. They said some

[1:35] areas have less than a week's reserves.

[1:38] The head of UN refugee operations is

[1:40] appealing to foreign governments for

[1:42] emergency supplies. The UN also reported

[1:44] that new Serb shelling killed 35 people

[1:48] today in the besieged town of Shrebert

[1:50] Nitsa. That attack came as NATO

[1:52] warplanes began enforcement of the

[1:54] no-fly zone over the country. We have a

[1:57] report narrated by David Simons of

[1:59] Worldwide Television News. Operation

[2:02] Deny Flight began when the first of more

[2:04] than 50 fighters from America, France,

[2:06] and Holland left Aviano in Italy.

[2:09] They'll take turns to fly combat patrols

[2:11] over Bosnia, scanning the skies for

[2:14] aircraft infringing the UN ban on combat

[2:16] flights by any of the Bosnian factions.

[2:21] The force will be backed up by US

[2:23] fighter bombers flying from the aircraft

[2:25] carrier Theodore Roosevelt stationed in

[2:27] the Adriatic.

[2:30] The aircraft will be directed at

[2:32] possible targets by surveillance planes

[2:34] operating under NATO control.

[2:37] >> This will involve NATO for the first

[2:40] time in its history in an operation

[2:44] with which has the potential for combat

[2:46] in an outof area location. This is truly

[2:50] different and truly historic for us.

[2:53] >> A French war plane taking part in the

[2:55] no-fly effort went down over the

[2:57] Adriatic today. NATO officials said the

[2:59] crash was due to mechanical

[3:01] difficulties, not to hostile fire. The

[3:04] pilot bailed out and was rescued by a

[3:06] helicopter. The UN Security Council

[3:08] delayed a vote today on tightening

[3:10] economic sanctions aimed at Serbia. They

[3:13] are intended to get Serbia to press its

[3:15] Bosnian Serb allies to sign an

[3:18] international peace plan. Russia's

[3:20] foreign minister said that his country

[3:22] requested the delay to give the Serbs

[3:24] one last chance. The vote has been

[3:27] rescheduled for April 26th, one day

[3:30] after the Russian referendum on Boris

[3:32] Yelson's leadership. There were several

[3:35] violent attacks in South Africa today,

[3:37] apparently in response to the weekend

[3:39] killing of a popular African National

[3:41] Congress leader, Chris Hani. However,

[3:43] most black groups urged their followers

[3:45] to keep their protests peaceful. Jeremy

[3:47] Thompson of Independent Television News

[3:49] reports from Johannesburg.

[3:52] >> The tensions simmering in the Black

[3:54] Townships erupted in sporadic outbreaks

[3:57] of violence. Vehicles were stoned and

[3:59] set ablaze. Police reinforcements sent

[4:02] in to quell the trouble came under fire

[4:05] from demonstrators.

[4:07] A white cameraman's car was hit by a

[4:09] bullet.

[4:10] >> I don't know what they thought exactly,

[4:12] but it was obvious that it was because

[4:13] we were white.

[4:14] >> With black youth calling for arms to be

[4:16] taken up against all whites, AMC leaders

[4:19] were clearly struggling to control their

[4:21] angry supporters. But we are going to

[4:24] deliver a blow that must ensure that

[4:27] comrade honey did not die in vain. We

[4:31] must make them to regret this action.

[4:35] Passion further aroused by the ANC's

[4:37] latest charge that the government may

[4:39] have been involved in Han's

[4:41] assassination.

[4:42] >> There is an apparent very clear link

[4:46] between the government and the

[4:48] murderers.

[4:49] Nationwide mass action is planned by the

[4:52] ANC, starting with a demonstration

[4:54] tomorrow at the first court appearance

[4:56] of Yan Valoo, the man charged with Han's

[4:59] murder. Today, the leader of the

[5:01] right-wing world apartheite movement

[5:04] told me he'd offered to pay for Valoo's

[5:06] legal costs because he sympathized with

[5:09] his action.

[5:11] >> Anie asked for it. Anie asked for it.

[5:14] And that the man who killed him you

[5:16] would congratulate.

[5:20] >> Yes.

[5:22] >> And you will now support him.

[5:24] >> We will support you.

[5:26] >> Police said they found several guns and

[5:28] a hit list in the home of the man

[5:30] arrested for Han's killing. He's due to

[5:31] appear in court tomorrow on murder

[5:33] charges. White House spokesman Dee

[5:35] Meyers spokeswoman Dee Meyers confirmed

[5:38] that the US was reviewing a document

[5:40] suggesting Vietnam lied about the number

[5:43] of American prisoners of war it held.

[5:45] The Vietnamese document was found in

[5:47] Soviet Communist Party archives in

[5:49] Moscow. It indicates Vietnam was holding

[5:52] 125 Americans in 1972, triple the number

[5:56] it admitted to at the time. Meyers

[5:58] reiterated there would be no progress

[6:00] toward normalization of relations until

[6:02] the US was assured Vietnam was doing all

[6:04] it could to account for missing

[6:06] Americans.

[6:07] >> President Clinton renewed his attacks

[6:09] today on Senate Republicans who are

[6:11] filibustering against his economic

[6:13] stimulus package. The $16 billion plan

[6:16] is designed to create 500,000 jobs. But

[6:20] Republicans complain it is filled with

[6:21] pork barrel projects that will do little

[6:24] to improve the nation's employment

[6:25] situation. Mr. Clinton spoke at an Oval

[6:28] Office photo opportunity this morning

[6:30] after signing a proclamation declaring

[6:33] the last week of April National

[6:35] Preschool Immunization Week. Part of the

[6:38] president's immunization program is tied

[6:40] up in Congress as part of the economic

[6:42] stimulus package.

[6:45] >> I just want to say that, you know, today

[6:46] we're having the Easter egg roll in the

[6:48] White House lawn. You can look out there

[6:50] at those kids. They are the hostages of

[6:54] the Senate filibuster.

[6:57] on this on the on the program. They are

[6:59] the hostages of the Senate filibuster on

[7:01] the stimulus program.

[7:03] All this hot air rhetoric about how this

[7:06] money is being wasted and that money is

[7:07] being wasted. These people, most of them

[7:09] have been here for the last 12 years,

[7:12] while we have run immunization into the

[7:13] ground, why we developed the third worst

[7:15] rate in the hemisphere. And they've

[7:18] always got some excuse, some of them,

[7:20] for not doing anything. White House

[7:22] officials said the president plans to

[7:24] continue his public campaign against the

[7:26] Republicans, but conceded that changes

[7:28] would have to be made to get the package

[7:30] through the Senate. The president and

[7:32] the first lady joined the throngs of

[7:34] children and parents on the White House

[7:36] South Lawn for the annual Easter egg

[7:39] roll. Mr. Clinton blew a whistle to

[7:41] start a round of races. He and Mrs.

[7:43] Clinton then made a campaign style swing

[7:45] through the crowd, shaking hands with

[7:47] hundreds of holiday visitors.

[7:50] That's our summary of the top stories of

[7:52] the news. Now it's on to the new

[7:53] leadership of the NAACP, Italy's

[7:56] political scandals, and Charlene Hunter

[7:59] G in Somalia.

[8:08] Up first tonight, the National

[8:10] Association for the Advancement of

[8:12] Colored People. Last Friday, the Civil

[8:14] Rights Organization elected a new

[8:16] executive director. We will talk with

[8:18] him and with the chairman of the board

[8:20] of directors about the future of the

[8:22] NAACP. But first, correspondent

[8:24] Elizabeth Brackett has this report. The

[8:27] NAACP settled on a new executive

[8:30] director who promised to rejuvenate the

[8:32] organization. The new leader,

[8:34] 45-year-old Reverend Benjamin Chavis, a

[8:37] longtime civil rights activist, a member

[8:40] of the Clinton transition team, who once

[8:42] spent four years in jail in the 1970s as

[8:45] part of the Wilmington 10, a group of

[8:47] activists who were jailed on charges of

[8:49] arson that were later found to be false.

[8:53] Chavis won the top spot over two other

[8:55] candidates, Juel Jackson McCabe and Earl

[8:57] Shinhoster. But much of the controversy

[9:00] over who should lead the organization

[9:02] swirled around the candidate who dropped

[9:04] out, the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

[9:07] Jackson supporters said the high-profile

[9:09] civil rights leader could have

[9:11] revitalized the organization at a time

[9:13] when many are calling it irrelevant and

[9:15] ineffective.

[9:17] New York State NAACP chairman Hazel

[9:20] Dukes, a Jackson supporter, said the

[9:22] public squabble further hurt the

[9:24] organization. I think uh uh the

[9:27] organization has been hurt by uh

[9:29] Reverend Jackson uh uh is a is a public

[9:32] figure and and to uh some parts of the

[9:36] community, he's he's he's theirs. He's

[9:40] theirs. And so Reverend Jackson is not

[9:42] hurt. I think our organization on a

[9:44] credibility level is hurt. Jackson, one

[9:48] of the nation's most visible civil

[9:49] rights leaders, was the number one

[9:51] choice of the search committee, but he

[9:54] dropped out after saying rules changes

[9:56] would have lessened the power of the

[9:57] executive director. Angry board members

[10:01] in an unusual public rebuke of Jackson

[10:03] said he lost support because members

[10:05] were afraid he would put his own agenda

[10:08] above the organization and he dropped

[10:10] out because he didn't have the votes to

[10:12] win.

[10:13] Jackson said he would always support the

[10:15] NAACP, but urged it to go in new

[10:19] directions.

[10:20] >> Well, at a time like this, NAA, if you

[10:23] were looking at a record company, would

[10:26] be kind of like Mottown. It has a known

[10:29] label and a great distribution system.

[10:33] It needs a hit record. The hit record is

[10:36] to address the critical social issues of

[10:38] our day with some real intensity. For

[10:41] example,

[10:43] um the crisis in LA right now is for the

[10:47] organization an opportunity to show real

[10:49] leadership.

[10:50] >> There was a time when the NAACP's

[10:52] leadership was unquestioned. It was

[10:55] founded in 1909 after a wave of

[10:57] lynchings nationwide. One of its finest

[11:00] moments came in 1954 in the Brown versus

[11:03] the Board of Education case. Third grade

[11:06] Marshall representing the NAACP before

[11:09] the Supreme Court won the case which

[11:11] ended legal school segregation.

[11:14] Even though Marshall knew enforcement

[11:16] would become the new challenge,

[11:19] >> but we recognize there is a terrific

[11:21] problem. And we believe that the people

[11:24] I represent have been very considerate

[11:26] about this. They've they've taken it for

[11:28] 70 or 80 years and we believe that now

[11:31] is the time to get around to having our

[11:33] constitution apply to all sections of

[11:36] the country equally and to the same

[11:39] effect in a more or less uniform

[11:41] fashion.

[11:42] >> After Brown versus the Board of

[11:43] Education, the influence of the NAACP

[11:46] grew. Chicago real estate developer and

[11:48] author Dempsey Travis was president of

[11:50] the Chicago NAACP in 1959 and60 and

[11:54] counted 50,000 members. I mean, you just

[11:59] weren't nobody. Uh, if you weren't part

[12:02] of the NAACP movement, uh, and it was a

[12:07] a social organization, it was a civic

[12:09] organization. Uh, it was all the things

[12:12] that you need to be a good citizen. As

[12:15] the battle for racial equality

[12:17] continued, particularly in the South,

[12:19] the NAACP remained in the forefront,

[12:22] organizing the famous March on

[12:23] Washington in 1963 and was highly

[12:26] influential in pushing through the Civil

[12:28] Rights Act of 1960, 1964, and the Voting

[12:32] Rights Act of 1965.

[12:34] >> This right to vote is the basic right

[12:38] without which all others are

[12:39] meaningless. But in the 1960s, other

[12:42] civil rights organizations began to

[12:43] appear on the scene. Organizations that

[12:46] were more militant and more committed to

[12:48] direct action on the street. The NAACP

[12:51] continued its legislative agenda, but

[12:53] lost many of the youth to the more

[12:55] activist organizations.

[12:59] >> Chicago Disc Docky Frank Jones says many

[13:02] young blacks today have hardly heard of

[13:04] the NAACP. He says, "Kids know rap

[13:07] stars, not civil rights leaders."

[13:09] >> In the 60s, you had a variety of black

[13:12] leaders, you know, obviously Martin

[13:14] Luther King, Malcolm X. Now, the youth,

[13:17] the people that they look to are people

[13:19] like Chuck D, lead rap, Republic Enemy,

[13:22] um, Ice Cube, Ice Tea. These are people

[13:25] who who are in their lives every day

[13:27] through through their tape recorders,

[13:29] through their cars, through their home

[13:30] stereos. After his election, Reverend

[13:32] Benjamin Chavis promised to reach out

[13:34] and embrace young people. NAACP members

[13:38] say whether he can break through the

[13:40] headsets and the tape recorders to

[13:41] re-engage young people may well

[13:43] determine the future of the nation's

[13:45] oldest civil rights organization.

[13:49] Joining us now are the Reverend Benjamin

[13:51] Chavis, the newly elected executive

[13:53] director of the NAACP, and William

[13:55] Gibson, the chairman of its board of

[13:57] directors. Gentlemen, thank you for

[13:59] being with us. Thank you for having us

[14:00] on.

[14:01] >> U Dr. Chavis, you just heard the report.

[14:04] You've seen the stories that have been

[14:05] uh throughout the newspapers and in the

[14:07] news over the last uh weeks or so. Uh is

[14:10] this an organization that's out of touch

[14:11] with a whole generation of black

[14:13] Americans?

[14:14] >> No, I think the NAACP uh has a

[14:17] tremendous potential. Uh it has not lost

[14:19] touch, but the question is, can we

[14:22] expand our base? Can we reach out uh to

[14:25] younger people? The answer is yes, and

[14:27] we have that opportunity. So um you know

[14:30] there have been many organizations I I

[14:31] watched your clip the NACP has been

[14:33] around since 1909 but a lot of

[14:36] organizations have come and gone. The

[14:37] NAACP has stood the test of time. And so

[14:40] now in 1993 as we face the 21st century

[14:44] certainly we're going to have to reach

[14:45] out to young people. Certainly also

[14:47] though I believe that the struggle is

[14:48] going have to be intergenerational. It's

[14:50] going to have to reach out to young

[14:51] people. It's going have to reach out to

[14:52] middleage people. And we still should

[14:55] hold on to the wisdom of our elders. I

[14:57] think there's a role in the NAACP for

[15:00] every generation.

[15:01] >> But by implication, aren't you saying

[15:03] that that you've lost you're

[15:05] acknowledging that touch was lost with

[15:08] with some in the younger generation,

[15:09] aren't you?

[15:10] >> Well, well, from each generation has to

[15:13] rise to the occasion in terms of the

[15:16] challenges that are laid before it. And

[15:18] certainly, um, if we look at the

[15:20] challenges of racial injustice, of

[15:22] economic injustice in our society,

[15:24] they're vulnerable challenges. When I

[15:26] finish your program tonight, I'm heading

[15:28] to Los Angeles and I will be going to

[15:30] stand with not only the young people in

[15:32] South Central Los Angeles, but the whole

[15:34] community that's caught in this very

[15:37] severe racial injustice.

[15:39] >> But speaking of that, Dr. Gibson, Los

[15:42] Angeles was an an issue uh following the

[15:45] Rodney King verdict last year and the

[15:47] disturbances out there. The NAACP has

[15:49] been criticized for not being more

[15:51] involved uh in that last year. Is it

[15:54] your sense that that's a legitimate

[15:55] criticism?

[15:57] >> Well, I think that as you view it from

[15:59] hindsight, possibly. Some people may

[16:01] think that it is. However, I think that

[16:04] under the circumstances, what we did was

[16:06] we convene a summit to begin to develop

[16:10] solutions to that particular problem. Uh

[16:12] we've alerted our branches in that

[16:13] particular area to be involved to be

[16:15] more aggressively involved in it. Could

[16:17] we do more? Yes, unquestionably. And I

[16:20] think that what we're bringing together

[16:22] now is a new team of leadership in the

[16:24] NAACP that does not tend to disparage

[16:27] the past but intend to improve it, tend

[16:29] to make things better. And that's what

[16:31] we're here today. That's why Dr. Chavis

[16:32] with the blessings of me as chairman of

[16:35] the board uh policy position I

[16:37] established today by constitutional I

[16:39] have part that I have that he'll be

[16:40] going there with the full support of the

[16:42] NAACP board of directors, the whole

[16:44] association to to do more this time than

[16:46] we did before. Are you saying that that

[16:48] wasn't the case under do the leadership

[16:49] of Dr. Benjamin Hooks?

[16:51] >> No, I I'm just saying that the nature of

[16:55] the struggle for racial justice is an

[16:57] evolutionary. It changes uh from year to

[16:59] year, from generation to generation. And

[17:02] what we want to do is not just look at

[17:04] the past, but look at this present

[17:06] moment. And the NACP uh is in a unique

[17:10] strategic position. We have 2,200 units.

[17:13] We're in every state. We're in every

[17:14] congressional district. We have over

[17:16] 500,000 members and certainly a

[17:18] overwhelming majority of those 500,000

[17:20] members are over 30. So what we have to

[17:23] do now is not to dis not to discard the

[17:26] 500,000 members we have but bring in new

[17:28] members and hit the ground running

[17:30] attacking the issues of racism and

[17:31] economic injustice. How do you respond

[17:33] to Reverend Jesse Jackson's comments

[17:36] that uh the he felt that the next

[17:38] executive director couldn't be as strong

[17:40] and effective as an indep independent as

[17:43] he felt he needed to be because of these

[17:45] new constitutional powers moved to the

[17:47] board? This is what you Dr. Gibson were

[17:49] just referring to. Is that an issue at

[17:51] all?

[17:52] >> It's not a it's not an issue for me. You

[17:54] know, I Dr. Gibson is a strong

[17:56] chairperson. I'm a strong executive

[17:58] director and we work together. We're on

[18:00] this program together. We have a team.

[18:02] And when I go out to uh Los Angeles

[18:04] tonight, I'm glad I have the support of

[18:07] the chairperson of the organization. I

[18:09] will be meeting with our local branch

[18:11] presidents uh throughout the region of

[18:13] Southern California. But I'm not going

[18:14] to stay in the hotel tonight downtown

[18:16] LA. I'm going to stay in the hood. I'm

[18:18] going to stay in the housing projects.

[18:19] I'm going to stay in Imperial Courts.

[18:21] I'm going to be with those young

[18:22] brothers and sisters while they've been

[18:24] in circles right now. Quite frankly, I'm

[18:26] very concerned about the almost desert

[18:28] storm mentality that's hoovering over LA

[18:31] at this moment.

[18:31] >> So when when the Reverend Jackson, Dr.

[18:33] Gibson, talks about uh his worry that

[18:36] the leadership of the NAACP can't be

[18:39] strong and effective because it's tied

[18:41] to a board that represents the ways of

[18:44] the past. What do you say to that?

[18:46] >> Well, I say number one is that it's

[18:48] regrettable that these accusations were

[18:50] made by Reverend Jackson in that heat of

[18:53] battle. But I say that the board of

[18:55] directors association at this time is

[18:57] younger than it's ever been in the

[18:59] history of the association. Um it is a

[19:02] board that has youth members. It has

[19:04] people who are recently graduated from

[19:07] college. It has young business person.

[19:09] It has a broad perspective. And uh the

[19:11] number of years I've been on is the

[19:13] youngest. The perspective that we're

[19:15] coming from and talking about change is

[19:17] not change within the structure of the

[19:20] management of NAACP. But we're talking

[19:22] about change in regards to operational

[19:25] policies and addressing issues. We're

[19:27] talking about addressing new issues such

[19:29] as crime, violence, teenage pregnancy,

[19:33] the kinds of circumstances,

[19:35] infrastructural problems that have

[19:37] resulted in a case of hopelessness that

[19:40] generates the kind of despair that you

[19:42] have in Los Angeles and many other major

[19:44] cities across the nation. We're talking

[19:46] about addressing aggressively economic

[19:48] enhancement for African-Americans. These

[19:51] are the kinds of changes that I'm

[19:53] talking about, not changes in the

[19:54] relationship of leadership in the NAACP.

[19:57] >> Do you you've seen the same stories I

[20:00] have over the last few days. I I read

[20:02] them again today, but the the criticism

[20:05] that was coming again and again is this

[20:07] is an organization that was once

[20:08] powerful. We saw it again in Elizabeth

[20:09] Brackett's report and in touch but now

[20:12] it isn't as in touch as it should be not

[20:14] just with the younger generation but

[20:16] with the constituents who you are

[20:19] >> you know that's very interesting

[20:20] >> single parents

[20:21] >> that's very interesting when people are

[20:23] discriminated against what's the

[20:25] organization that they first call the

[20:26] NAACP when something happens uh that's

[20:29] devastating our community the NAACP is

[20:32] the first organization that's called and

[20:34] the reason is that that is the

[20:35] organization that not only has the

[20:37] historic legacy It is the only

[20:39] organization that we have that is

[20:40] organized throughout the United States

[20:42] to even have the capability of

[20:44] responding. So it's a question of

[20:46] maximizing the potential of the

[20:48] organization. And what Dr. Gibson and I

[20:51] are now doing, we are managing and

[20:54] directing the organization in a way that

[20:56] it can maximize its true potential.

[20:58] >> The um there was an article that I guess

[21:00] ran a couple of weeks ago that said you

[21:02] were the preferred candidate of

[21:03] President Clinton. Uh is there anything

[21:06] to that? Are you a friend of the

[21:07] presidents or do you know of a reason

[21:09] the suggestion in the article was

[21:10] >> I consider I consider President Clinton

[21:12] um to be a friend to my knowledge I

[21:15] don't think the president contacted the

[21:16] uh search committee uh is the case vice

[21:19] president Gore

[21:20] >> or anybody in his behalf

[21:21] >> vice president Gore is a personal friend

[21:23] of mine but the fact that the president

[21:25] and vice president can be friends that

[21:26] had nothing to do with the selection in

[21:29] fact I I have the responsibility now as

[21:31] executive director of the NWACP uh to

[21:34] put pressure on the white house to make

[21:35] sure that justice that equal justice is

[21:37] in this country to put pressure on the

[21:39] Congress of the United States to put

[21:40] pressure on the Supreme Court to put

[21:42] pressure on the governors to put

[21:44] pressure on the mayors. You're going to

[21:46] hear a lot from the NAACP this day and

[21:48] all the days to come. Wherever there's

[21:50] racial injustice in the United States,

[21:52] we intend to challenge it and we intend

[21:54] to change it. the I asked because the

[21:56] implication of the piece was that the

[21:58] White House didn't expect as much I

[22:00] don't know for lack of a better term

[22:02] pressure points or threatening position

[22:04] or whatever from Dr. Chavis.

[22:06] >> Michelle see I like to say this a real

[22:09] civil rights leader and that's what I

[22:10] consider Dr. Chavis. I also like to

[22:13] consider myself that too does not yield

[22:15] to political friendships or relations.

[22:19] You address the actions of that

[22:21] particular politician. Real civil rights

[22:24] leaders uh do not get co-opted merely

[22:27] because of the fact that they know an

[22:29] individual who is political in political

[22:31] office. They have the responsibility,

[22:33] the duty and if they're to retain their

[22:35] integrity, they must address the actions

[22:38] of these particular politicians in the

[22:40] same vein that they would supposedly

[22:42] address an enemy. And I have the highest

[22:44] regard for uh Dr. Chavis's integrity,

[22:47] which to me is the prime criteria for

[22:50] leadership in civil rights. How do you

[22:53] get to those young people? We heard the

[22:55] the disc jockey describing there at the

[22:57] end of those Elizabeth Brackett's

[22:59] report. The the kids, you know,

[23:02] >> you get to them not so much by talking

[23:04] about them, but by talking with them and

[23:06] being with them tonight. Again, I'm

[23:08] going to be staying with young people in

[23:10] South Central Los Angeles. I'm going to

[23:11] stay in the housing projects with them

[23:13] until the verdict comes in. Uh they know

[23:16] and and this is not a new thing for me

[23:18] to do.

[23:18] >> What do you think? Why are you doing

[23:19] that? What do you think may happen?

[23:21] Well, I'm I'm there I'm going there as a

[23:23] common influence, but I'm also going to

[23:25] demand justice. Keep in mind, the reason

[23:27] why we have a tense situation in Los

[23:29] Angeles right now is because of the

[23:31] absence of justice, the absence of

[23:32] racial justice, the absence of economic

[23:34] justice, the disenfranchisement of

[23:37] thousands of people in South Central Los

[23:39] Angeles and other parts of Los Angeles

[23:40] County. Hopefully, the jury this time

[23:43] will bring justice. If it does not, it's

[23:45] going to be a very, very tense

[23:46] situation. and we're in the NAACP. We

[23:49] don't want to see a recurrence of

[23:50] violence. At the same time, we're not

[23:52] going to soften our demand for that

[23:55] justice be done

[23:56] >> beyond Los Angeles. How do you You said

[23:58] you want to sit down with these people.

[24:00] Are you Do you have a plan?

[24:01] >> First of all, first of all, I have

[24:02] children myself. Uh I know rap artists.

[24:06] Uh the young man who earlier talked

[24:08] about about reaching people through

[24:09] music. We will do some of that. But our

[24:12] reaching young people has to go beyond

[24:14] sentimentality. It has to go beyond a

[24:16] sort of a casual relationship. We not

[24:19] only want to address the issues

[24:21] affecting young people, we want them to

[24:23] come and join the NAACP, participate in

[24:25] the life of the organization so that we

[24:27] can transform the quality of life of the

[24:30] African-American community and other

[24:32] people of color communities in the

[24:33] United States. That's our charge.

[24:35] >> What do you when you talk to young black

[24:38] Americans, Dr. Gibson, what do you hear

[24:40] them saying that they want from your

[24:43] organization or any organization that

[24:44] speaks for civil rights? Because as as

[24:46] we know, it's not just in today's

[24:48] discussion, but in the last few years,

[24:50] the discussion has been about what's

[24:52] happened to the civil rights leadership

[24:54] in this country.

[24:55] >> First thing that um most young people I

[24:58] talked to want is a good job. Um they

[25:01] want the opportunity to livelihood, not

[25:03] to be on welfare, not to be uh homeless,

[25:07] not to be in the streets. Um, the next

[25:09] thing I think they want from economic

[25:11] perspective is you have a lot of young

[25:12] blacks today with ideas of

[25:13] entrepreneurship, many who are not in

[25:15] entertainment industry, who want to have

[25:17] the opportunity to own their own

[25:19] businesses. They want the opportunity to

[25:20] get a loan without being refused because

[25:23] of the fact that they're black. They

[25:25] want to own a home, not be a renter for

[25:27] the rest of their lives and be denied an

[25:30] opportunity for home mortgage because

[25:31] they've been red line or they've been

[25:33] denied uh a statistical loan because of

[25:36] the fact that they're black. Uh they

[25:38] want basic the fundamental things that

[25:41] is supposed to be a part of the American

[25:42] dream. And we in NAACP intend to begin

[25:46] to work more forcefully. Oh yeah, as I

[25:49] said earlier, we could do better and

[25:51] we're going to do better. We have a

[25:53] group of individuals now that are

[25:54] prepared to address those issues and

[25:56] hopefully to solve some of those

[25:58] concerns that these young black

[25:59] Americans have.

[26:01] >> Well, Dr. Gibson, Dr. Chavis, we thank

[26:03] you both for being with us. It's

[26:04] >> a pleasure.

[26:04] >> Thank you.

[26:05] >> Thank you, Robin.

[26:07] >> Still ahead, the scandal shaking Italy's

[26:09] political system and Charlene Hunter G

[26:12] in Somalia.

[26:22] Next tonight, we turn to Italy where

[26:23] daily revelations of corruption have

[26:25] produced the kind of political upheaval

[26:27] not se seen since the post-war World War

[26:30] II republic was created nearly 50 years

[26:33] ago. On Sunday, Italians will vote in a

[26:35] referendum on changing some of their

[26:37] political institutions. Jillian Finley

[26:40] of the Canadian Broadcasting

[26:41] Corporation's prime time news program

[26:43] has a report.

[26:46] Mozart would have loved the irony. Don

[26:49] Giovani, the story of an unrepentant

[26:51] sinner playing to the rich and powerful

[26:53] in Milan.

[26:56] The opera attracts a crowd, but these

[26:58] days in Italy, you don't have to come to

[26:59] Lascala to see sinners being dragged

[27:01] down to hell.

[27:05] Just go to the streets.

[27:14] For over a year now, Italy has been

[27:16] reeling from a bribery scandal, the

[27:17] biggest ever in Europe. As accusations

[27:20] have reached higher, people have become

[27:22] angrier. Furious that what they used to

[27:24] joke about has now proven true.

[27:28] >> It's not that Italians are opposed to a

[27:30] little bribery. After all, favors have

[27:33] kept the system running for years. What

[27:35] this is, though, is corruption on a

[27:36] major scale. Collusion between

[27:38] politicians and businessmen. some

[27:40] suspect even the mafia. It's become

[27:43] known as Tangentop, kickback city, and

[27:45] it struck a latent nerve in Italy.

[27:47] What's happening now is nothing short of

[27:49] a revolution, the destruction of a

[27:51] political order, the fall of a ruling

[27:54] class.

[28:01] There's no opera these days for the

[28:02] inmates of Sanvatory Prison. The guest

[28:05] list reads like a who's who of Milan

[28:07] society.

[28:09] To understand the scope of the scandal

[28:11] and why so many will likely end up in

[28:13] jail, imagine it in Canadian terms. Two

[28:17] former prime ministers, more than a 100

[28:19] MPs, cabinet ministers, top bureaucrats,

[28:22] the presidents of all political parties,

[28:24] plus many of the country's top

[28:26] industrialists, all of a sudden under

[28:28] investigation for giving and taking

[28:30] billions of dollars in bribes.

[28:36] This revolution doesn't have a

[28:38] guillotine. Publicity is killing the

[28:40] elite. The televised trial of this Milan

[28:42] city official was watched by a record 9

[28:45] million people and made a national hero

[28:47] of the interrogator Antonio Dietro

[28:53] 250 million.

[28:58] When you walk in the street, do you ever

[28:59] see 250 million LA handed over for no

[29:02] apparent reason? His

[29:06] operation clean hands may anger the

[29:09] privileged, but the Italian people are

[29:10] proud. The Pietro is now so popular he's

[29:13] become a symbol for justice and for

[29:16] Italy's hottest new board game.

[29:19] >> Forget Monopoly, Italians now play

[29:21] Tangentopoly, a simple game, says

[29:23] inventor Leelo Gado, that tests a

[29:25] player's knowledge of the scandal.

[29:28] >> There are six players and the judge. The

[29:31] goal is to pay the least amount of

[29:32] tenenti or bribes. But as Italians are

[29:35] learning, that's not how it was in real

[29:37] life. Huge kickbacks were paid on almost

[29:39] all public works projects.

[29:42] Like Milan soccer stadium, politicians

[29:44] are thought to have raked off up to $20

[29:46] million.

[29:49] The still unfinished Piccolo Theater,

[29:51] $3.5 million. And the extension to Milan

[29:54] subway, as much as 250 million may have

[29:56] gone in bribes. But it wasn't just big

[29:59] projects. This senior citizens home has

[30:02] become famous in Milan because it was

[30:03] here that the whole tangenty affair

[30:06] began to unravel.

[30:09] For 2 years, Lucha Manu's family had the

[30:11] cleaning contract at the home. For 2

[30:13] years, he paid 10% in bribes. But then

[30:16] he had a crisis of conscience.

[30:42] After consulting his mother, Mani went

[30:44] to the police who set up a sting. People

[30:46] began to confess. The House of Cards

[30:48] began to collapse and players like

[30:51] Roberto Monini decided to come clean. He

[30:54] used to be vice president of Milan's

[30:55] airport authority and for 10 years he

[30:57] used his post to pressure companies into

[30:59] making donations to his party, the

[31:01] Christian Democrats. He says he had no

[31:04] choice.

[31:40] Monini spent 17 days in jail. He still

[31:43] has to go to trial, but notoriety hasn't

[31:45] hurt his career. He's written a book.

[31:48] He's continued to practice law. And now

[31:50] he's host of a new TV program called The

[31:53] Unpunished.

[32:02] Despite all that's happened, he says he

[32:04] doesn't feel guilty.

[32:23] For many politicians and businessmen,

[32:25] the road to reform starts here at

[32:27] Milan's Palace of Justice. Instead of

[32:29] waiting for the policeman's knock, many

[32:31] are coming in on their own accord,

[32:33] running the gauntlet of cameras and

[32:35] reporters who've taken up residents

[32:36] outside the investigator's office. What

[32:39] the investigators are finding is that

[32:41] the system of kickbacks on construction

[32:43] projects spread further than anyone

[32:45] suspected. The cost of the ripoff is now

[32:47] put at 14 billion a year, almost equal

[32:50] to Italy's annual deficit. But how is

[32:53] the system allowed to flourish and why

[32:55] is it only being discovered now?

[32:58] The political scientist answer is the

[33:01] Cold War. Professor and former senator

[33:03] Jean Franco Pascuino says ever since

[33:05] Italy became a republic politics have

[33:08] been dominated by fear.

[33:11] >> One should not forget for a moment that

[33:12] the the challenger was a communist party

[33:15] and very many Italians would have not

[33:17] liked communist party in in the

[33:18] government and so the competition was

[33:20] tough and governmental parties decided

[33:22] to resort to corruption in order to to

[33:25] butress their declining fortunes. uh

[33:28] they were discovered first of all

[33:30] because there was no longer a communist

[33:31] party. The Berlin wall collapsed and the

[33:34] communist party in Italy disappeared and

[33:35] so there is no communist threat anymore.

[33:38] >> But psychiatrists have a simpler answer.

[33:40] Greed. Dr. Pier Rokini's couch has been

[33:43] graced by more than 200 Italian

[33:45] politicians. He used to be a consultant

[33:47] to the House of Deputies. Last year he

[33:50] conducted a survey to find out why his

[33:52] patients got into politics. They

[33:54] explained that they get they got into

[33:58] politics only for money and they

[34:01] explained this very clearly. I want

[34:04] money. I want money. I want money. And I

[34:07] think it this way it's easily

[34:11] understandable why we have

[34:14] so layered problem of corruption.

[34:18] Tangenti has shocked Italians, not least

[34:21] because it was first revealed in the

[34:23] influential north. Here in this poor

[34:25] south, corruption has been suspected and

[34:27] tolerated for years. But not until now

[34:29] has there been much resolve to do

[34:31] anything about it. The political house

[34:33] cleaning that started in Milan is

[34:34] sweeping south. Old closets are being

[34:36] opened. Old skeletons are coming out.

[34:40] 1980, the mountains of Arpina erupted in

[34:43] an earthquake. In just 2 minutes, 3,000

[34:46] people were dead. 300,000 were homeless.

[34:52] >> 13 years later, the reconstruction still

[34:54] continues. The Italian government poured

[34:56] in more than$13 billion, but it's now

[34:59] clear a lot of it went missing. If you

[35:01] belong to the right political party and

[35:03] had the right connections,

[35:04] reconstruction was a quick way to get

[35:06] rich.

[35:09] Take this highway, 8 kilometers leading

[35:11] nowhere. The constructors got more than

[35:14] $100 million.

[35:16] The owners of this factory got money

[35:17] after promising they would process

[35:19] potatoes. $15 million later, they have

[35:22] yet to produce a French fry. Meanwhile,

[35:25] hundreds of families still live in

[35:26] temporary housing. In the town of

[35:28] Caposle, people have spent 13 years in

[35:31] casuts donated by the German Red Cross.

[35:35] Revelations about tangent are especially

[35:38] painful here.

[36:11] We're all involved in this. We have very

[36:12] mixed feelings. I mean,

[36:14] >> Sergio Romano was a former diplomat and

[36:16] editorialist. He argues Italy's complex

[36:18] system of patronage is collapsing

[36:20] because it simply got too expensive.

[36:22] >> The system was entirely designed to

[36:25] allow political parties to maintain

[36:28] their powers. Pensions in the south,

[36:30] money for the earthquake areas after the

[36:33] earthquake in the south, the health

[36:36] system which was also designed to

[36:37] provide jobs with the political

[36:41] clientele of parties. Well, all of these

[36:44] factors put together uh just

[36:47] manage to exact from the country a

[36:51] disproportionate

[36:52] amount of money which ended up by making

[36:56] the budget deficit so large as to make

[36:59] the country uncompetitive on a on a

[37:02] European scale.

[37:08] The further south you go, the more

[37:09] insidious the patronage becomes. Naples

[37:12] is mafia country and last week's roundup

[37:15] of local politicians and officials

[37:17] heralded a new chapter in the tangently

[37:19] affair.

[37:21] Today it's southern courouses that are

[37:23] besieged by journalists and cameras here

[37:26] to catch a glimpse of nervous officials

[37:28] summoned to tell what they know about

[37:30] contracts and the mob.

[37:35] >> This dragnet has reached right to the

[37:36] very top. Among those now being

[37:38] investigated, the man said to be the

[37:40] country's most powerful,

[37:43] >> Julio Andriotti, seven times prime

[37:45] minister. More than anyone, the symbol

[37:47] of Italy's post-war prosperity. If he's

[37:50] found guilty, it would be the final

[37:52] proof that Italian public life is

[37:54] corrupt to its very core.

[37:59] 5 years ago, Carlo Maria Martini,

[38:02] Cardinal of Milan, made a speech in

[38:04] which he warned that a plague of

[38:05] corruption was sweeping the land. No one

[38:08] listened.

[38:10] >> I don't think that we could have done

[38:12] more than what we did for

[38:14] >> today. He feels vindicated but also

[38:16] hopeful that through crisis will come a

[38:18] solution.

[38:20] >> We are disturbed.

[38:22] We are very sorrow for what happened and

[38:25] therefore we can change now. I think is

[38:27] is really a great occasion for change.

[38:34] >> There's a lot of talk of change in Italy

[38:36] these days. Change the politicians.

[38:39] Change the political system. But the

[38:42] cardinal warns it will take more than

[38:43] that.

[38:47] To a rally of school children

[38:49] celebrating the first day of spring, he

[38:51] pleads not to let the scandal discourage

[38:53] them from entering public life.

[39:07] And in the end, as 50 years of political

[39:09] order crumbles around them, it may be

[39:11] all Italians can hope for, that the

[39:14] hands of the next generation will be

[39:16] cleaner than the last.

[39:27] Finally tonight, a conversation with the

[39:29] top US military commander in Somalia,

[39:32] Marine Corps Lieutenant General Robert

[39:34] Johnson. He's soon to finish a

[39:36] four-month tour of duty along with most

[39:38] of the 26,000 American service members

[39:40] deployed last year in Operation Restore

[39:43] Hope. 7,000 Americans will stay on as

[39:46] part of a United Nations force of

[39:48] soldiers from all over the world.

[39:50] Charlene Hunter Gald interviewed General

[39:51] Johnson on her return trip to Somalia.

[39:55] >> It's been four months since Marine

[39:56] General Robert Johnson established

[39:59] Operation Restore Hope. Under his

[40:02] command, an international force of some

[40:04] 38,000 troops. Known to his forces by

[40:08] code name Seawolf, the 55-year-old

[40:11] veteran of Beirut and Desert Storm is

[40:14] about to turn over responsibility for

[40:16] Somalia's security to a United Nations

[40:19] force. At one of General Johnston's

[40:22] validtory visits to his troops at a

[40:24] Marine outpost in Logadishu, he outlined

[40:27] what the Marines have accomplished in

[40:29] Somalia.

[40:30] >> We have always had an ideology that

[40:34] everybody is a rifleman. And I can't

[40:36] think of any better testimony to the

[40:38] things that the artillery battalion has

[40:41] done in Mogadishu in the heart of town

[40:43] in the worst part of town and the most

[40:45] challenging mission has been given to

[40:48] the the cannon conquers and you have

[40:50] done absolutely superbly. And it goes to

[40:53] tell you something about our core that

[40:55] we should never change that. We should

[40:56] never try to tamper with boot camp or

[40:58] officer candidate school and the kind of

[41:01] training that we put every Marine

[41:02] through. uh the way you've performed in

[41:05] a very very delicate mission, I believe

[41:08] that this is a more challenging mission

[41:09] from Marines than Desert Storm was.

[41:12] >> We spoke with General Johnston at his

[41:14] office at the American Embassy. General

[41:16] Johnston, thank you for joining us. It

[41:19] seems as if you're in the process of

[41:22] giving valid

[41:24] disengaging. Is that right?

[41:25] >> We are preparing to disengage certainly

[41:28] with respect to turning over to the

[41:30] United Nations. Yes, we're preparing for

[41:32] a very smooth handoff.

[41:33] >> But you yourself are going around

[41:35] addressing the troops as it were and

[41:38] seeing your last

[41:40] >> um I I don't think it's going to be my

[41:42] last trip to the troops, but it's good

[41:44] to do it from time to time. The you

[41:46] know, the uncertainty of when they might

[41:48] be withdrawing is always in their mind

[41:50] and they just need to be reminded what a

[41:53] great job they're doing. Do you have a

[41:55] date certain yet when the you will be

[41:58] leaving and and when the rest of the uh

[42:01] US forces will be pulling out?

[42:03] >> No, there is no absolutely concrete

[42:05] date. There are some preconditions

[42:07] obviously. One is that General Beer will

[42:09] be comfortable that his staff is ready

[42:11] to take over operationally.

[42:13] >> That's the new Turkish general who will

[42:14] >> Yes, it is. And then there are some

[42:16] additional forces coming in uh

[42:18] Pakistanis specifically that will allow

[42:21] the Marines to turn over Mogadishu to

[42:24] another force the Pakistanis in this

[42:26] case and when that's done those two

[42:28] preconditions then the US forces would

[42:31] be in a position to to withdraw except

[42:34] for the logistics command which will

[42:36] stay here through UNISAM and a quick

[42:38] reaction force of army troops who will

[42:41] again stay into phase two UNISAM

[42:44] >> UNISAM being the United Nations,

[42:46] Somalia. There were many critics of

[42:49] United Nations bureaucracy and slowness

[42:52] in this whole process from the very

[42:55] beginning. Is this another example of

[42:57] that? I I can't talk to perhaps the

[43:00] track record of the United Nations, but

[43:02] I believe it has been rather slow this

[43:04] time that it seems u to have been slower

[43:07] than we would like to have seen it

[43:09] because certainly part of the UN mission

[43:11] that requires refugee resettlement,

[43:13] standing up a governmental structure and

[43:17] standing up a police force is a mission

[43:19] that now needs to be executed. And so

[43:22] it's important that the UN quickly get

[43:24] in place and take up those three major

[43:26] missions. But scaly the UN secretary

[43:29] general has been for had been for some

[43:33] time publicly opposed to the US

[43:36] withdrawing until the entire country was

[43:39] secure and there was some debate about

[43:41] what the goal and mission was. Is this a

[43:43] part of that in any way? I mean is this

[43:45] this in any way perhaps a deliberate

[43:48] attempt to prolong the US presence? I'd

[43:51] be speculating, but quite candidly it

[43:54] was a very successful mission and I

[43:56] suspect there was no uh great sense of

[43:59] urgency to have us replaced since we

[44:00] were performing very nicely. And I

[44:03] believe that while Secretary General

[44:05] Butgi would like to have had the US go

[44:08] north, that was never part of the

[44:10] mission that President then President

[44:12] Bush committed the US forces to. was

[44:14] very limited a humanitarian mission

[44:17] establish a secure environment so that

[44:19] we could reverse the the famine which we

[44:21] have done and establish a uh an

[44:24] adequately secure environment for UNICEM

[44:27] to come in and begin the next part of

[44:28] the mission. So we've done that

[44:31] >> as you have just done. Others as well

[44:34] have expressed confidence in handing off

[44:38] uh this mission to other forces. And yet

[44:42] even you this morning when we were

[44:43] traveling around heard local Somali,

[44:47] police and others say that the other

[44:49] countries simply cannot do it. They're

[44:51] small countries. the United States must

[44:54] stay uh for a long period of time uh in

[44:58] order to make progress in the country.

[45:02] What's your reaction to that?

[45:04] >> People put a lot of confidence in the

[45:06] United States presence, but I really

[45:08] feel that the forces that General Beard

[45:10] will take over, if he took over

[45:11] tomorrow, he would have 70% of the

[45:14] troops that I have today. So that in

[45:17] terms of what happens on the ground and

[45:18] what is seen by the Somalis will be

[45:20] relatively unchanged and I think that uh

[45:24] the United Nations will create this

[45:25] confidence level by their performance.

[45:28] There are superb troops I will give you

[45:30] some examples the Italians the French

[45:32] the Batswan

[45:35] the Pakistanis and many other countries

[45:37] will remain in place and their

[45:39] performance is not going to change

[45:40] because they're under somebody somebody

[45:42] else's command. So I'm very confident

[45:44] that the UN can can do it.

[45:46] Some have argued that this is a very

[45:48] fragile political and environmental

[45:52] ecosystem that the SIR regime kept the

[45:56] lid on for all those years and once he

[46:00] was gone that lid exploded and

[46:02] everything boiled over that that for

[46:05] since December now the joint le forces

[46:07] have kept the lid on which is in effect

[46:10] given other strong armed leaders time to

[46:14] regroup. What is your sense of that and

[46:17] what is happening to those forces uh in

[46:22] this interim period? Are they off

[46:24] somewhere rearming and regrouping and

[46:27] just waiting for you to leave?

[46:28] >> I don't think they have that kind of

[46:30] capability. I mean clearly some of the

[46:33] heavier equipment still exists in the

[46:35] central part of Somalia in terms of the

[46:38] kind of military capability we have. the

[46:41] faction leader simply could not mount

[46:43] any kind of a significant military

[46:45] threat to our forces. So their power

[46:48] base as it relates to firepower and and

[46:50] a gun is eroding and I believe an

[46:54] increasing recognition on their parts

[46:56] that really the the future is not in the

[46:58] end of a gun and it's going to have to

[46:59] be in a legitimate government. So I'm my

[47:02] sensing is that the faction leaders are

[47:04] understand that and that we have the

[47:06] Somali now trying to point Somalia in

[47:10] the direction of reconciliation,

[47:11] disarmament, disengagement, the things

[47:14] that the Somali are doing in Mogadishu

[47:16] to take back their own city I think is

[47:19] some reassuring indication that the

[47:20] Somali are part of the solution and if

[47:24] they're not part of the solution there

[47:26] is no long-term success. Do you feel

[47:28] that the environment will will in fact

[47:31] be secure enough for that?

[47:33] >> You use Mogadishu as an example is

[47:35] already secure enough to begin to see u

[47:39] a commerce beginning. And keep in mind

[47:41] that Somalia has never been a high-tech

[47:43] country anyway. That 70% of the

[47:45] population has made a living through

[47:48] livestock and uh growing oranges and

[47:53] bananas. So it won't take an awful lot

[47:56] to to jump start the economy. Doesn't

[47:59] require a lot of high-tech and a good

[48:01] deal of infrastructure. So I I see that

[48:04] happening and I think that it could be

[48:06] literally matters of months before the

[48:08] economy is beginning to employ Somali

[48:11] again. There were reports that you had

[48:13] been

[48:15] involved in planning such a mission even

[48:18] as much as a year in advance of of the

[48:22] mission.

[48:24] How has that mission changed from when

[48:26] you first conceived it in that planning

[48:29] stage until now in terms of the use of

[48:31] the forces? The planning that uh that we

[48:34] were talking about was a fairly

[48:39] uh limited operation that we would

[48:42] conceive in Somalia. It was

[48:43] humanitarian, but it didn't go into the

[48:46] level of detail in planning that allowed

[48:48] us to execute this particular mission.

[48:50] Small number of troops. Um, it did not

[48:53] deal with the political complexities of

[48:56] the clan factions,

[48:58] the the true limitations of the airport,

[49:02] the port, all of the logistics

[49:04] constraints that we dealt with really

[49:06] were not explored in enormous detail.

[49:09] So, while it helped us focus on Somalia,

[49:12] uh, look at the geography, etc., the

[49:15] temperatures, the climate. Um, it was

[49:17] useful, but it certainly did not

[49:19] guarantee that we knew everything we

[49:21] needed to know when we hit the hit the

[49:23] ground.

[49:23] >> And so, what changed? I mean, how did

[49:25] the mission change once you encountered

[49:29] the realities of the situation?

[49:32] >> Right. At the time we were exercising

[49:34] it, we did not we were not looking at a

[49:37] a famine of quite the magnitude that we

[49:39] faced when we finally came in in

[49:40] December.

[49:41] >> Really?

[49:42] >> Right. We we were not trying to

[49:44] replicate many many months ago the

[49:46] famine that really began to to build and

[49:49] become much more the subject of public

[49:52] uh interest. And so we didn't really

[49:55] fully contemplate the number of

[49:58] thousands of Somali that were actually

[50:00] dying of hunger and the hundreds that

[50:02] were dying every day.

[50:04] So it was again this was many months ago

[50:08] and then as we approached the operation

[50:09] in December things had changed

[50:11] dramatically. The death rate was very

[50:14] very high. The civil war was at the

[50:16] point which it was irreversible. The

[50:18] United Nations had come in as you recall

[50:21] some 600 Pakistanis and were simply not

[50:24] they were just under gunned and

[50:27] undermann and could not handle the

[50:29] mission. So the mission really and the

[50:31] problems in Somalia worsened as time

[50:34] went by.

[50:35] >> Do you see this kind of

[50:38] expanded humanitarian role for US forces

[50:43] as a

[50:46] role of the future and do you see it as

[50:48] an appropriate one for US forces?

[50:52] >> Sure.

[50:52] >> And that's hard for me to to speak to

[50:54] really. I'm sure that President Clinton

[50:57] will have to make those kind of

[50:59] decisions down the road. I think it's an

[51:01] appropriate mission. I mean, it's not

[51:03] it's not the mission for which we train

[51:05] and are

[51:07] equipped and uh outfitted for, but it's

[51:10] one that we can do if it's short

[51:12] duration. Uh and it has to be it has to

[51:16] satisfy some preconditions.

[51:18] One that it is doable that is a that is

[51:22] a military mission to start with. This

[51:23] one was even though it's humanitarian,

[51:26] the the problem was a civil war in

[51:28] Somalia. It would it had to have a

[51:30] military force to be able to reverse

[51:32] that so that we could then provide the

[51:33] humanitarian aid. And I think uh in

[51:37] addition to it being an appropriate

[51:38] mission, uh we have to know about how

[51:40] long it's going to last and it has to be

[51:42] one that for which there's an end game.

[51:45] You have to know where you're going

[51:46] before you get into the operation. And I

[51:49] think we knew where we were going. It

[51:50] was a point of time at which we would

[51:52] reverse a a famine and stop a civil war.

[51:56] >> But so many of the conflicts that are

[51:58] looming on the horizon, even in force

[52:00] now, are in a way similar

[52:05] that surely you've thought about this.

[52:08] >> Well, I think with all of these

[52:10] operations, there's human tragedy

[52:13] present. I mean, Bosnia is a classic

[52:14] example where the innocent civilians are

[52:17] always those that suffer. So you could

[52:20] say that there's always a humanitarian

[52:22] mission in every conflict. Uh this one

[52:25] was driven more by famine, by you know

[52:28] the inability to get food to starving

[52:30] Somalia.

[52:31] >> We don't know exactly when you will

[52:32] leave, but we know it will be soon. What

[52:35] is the one thought that you is there any

[52:38] one thought that you leave with and any

[52:41] feeling of as you look about to the

[52:44] future of of Somalia? I think the the

[52:47] word I would pass to my successor is

[52:50] that that you have to be patient that it

[52:53] does take a while for the Somali to come

[52:55] to an agreement. It will reach an

[52:57] agreement at their pace, not ours. That

[53:00] we tend to see things in our own eyes,

[53:02] in our own experience. And I think that

[53:05] Americans are traditionally somewhat

[53:07] impatient for results. We like things to

[53:09] happen and that's true of military men.

[53:12] Uh things will not happen that quickly

[53:14] here. And I would believe that that's

[53:15] the that's the underlying message I

[53:18] would say I would give to anybody here.

[53:20] Uh it can be successful. We have to be

[53:23] patient and there may be some reversals

[53:24] down the road. We can deal with all of

[53:27] those and I believe that there's every

[53:29] expectation that this mission in the

[53:30] long haul will be a successful one.

[53:32] >> Well, General Johnson, thank you for

[53:34] joining us. Thank you.

[53:43] >> Again, the major stories of this Monday,

[53:45] the prison uprising in southern Ohio

[53:48] continued. A sixth inmate was confirmed

[53:50] dead when his body was thrown from the

[53:52] cell block. Eight prison guards are

[53:54] being held hostage. The United Nations

[53:57] officials said food supplies in Bosnia

[53:59] are dangerously low. They called for

[54:01] emergency help from foreign governments.

[54:03] Good night, Robin.

[54:05] >> Hey, Judy. Wait, there's one more story

[54:07] to report before we go. Judy Woodruff

[54:09] has decided to accept a challenging new

[54:11] position with the Cable News Network

[54:13] later this spring. While we're very sad

[54:15] to be losing an outstanding member of

[54:17] the NewsHour team, someone who's given

[54:19] us 10 years of hard work and dedication,

[54:21] Judy, we're all delighted for you and

[54:23] wish you much success.

[54:24] >> Thanks, Robin. This is a special place

[54:26] and it'll be hard to leave.

[54:28] >> That's the NewsHour tonight. We'll be

[54:30] back tomorrow night with more from

[54:31] Charlene Hunter G in Somalia among other

[54:33] other things. I'm Robert McNeel. Good

[54:35] night.

[54:38] >> Part of helping the world live and

[54:40] communicate better is keeping it well

[54:42] informed.

[54:44] That's why funding for the McNeel

[54:46] NewsHour is provided by AT&T

[54:52] and by PepsiCo.

[54:59] PepsiCo

[55:01] and by the Corporation for Public

[55:03] Broadcasting

[55:05] and viewers like you.

[55:08] >> This is Robert McBride of OPB radio.

[55:10] Tomorrow in performance today, the

[55:12] musical world of Thomas Jefferson.

[55:14] Commentator Anita Sullivan of Corvalis

[55:16] considers her musical hero. And Marin

[55:18] also conducts Beethoven in Colorado.

[55:20] It's 9:00 tomorrow morning on OPB radio.

[55:24] Oh,

[55:53] video cassettes of The McNeel Larer

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[56:29] dental coverage and responsive service.

[56:48] Once upon a time, a country of patty

[56:51] farmers decided to industrialize.

[56:54] 20 years later, they're the world's

[56:56] leading exporter of computer chips. This

[56:59] is the story of Malaysia. Mini Dragons

[57:03] 2. Tuesday.

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[58:12] Come see the newest and the most

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[58:43] >> What a sight today. A former communist

[58:45] Mikail Gorbachev praising a Republican

[58:48] Thomas Jefferson. Gorbachev said he

[58:50] often drew inspiration from Jefferson.

[58:52] Others remembered Mr. Jefferson too.

[58:54] Among them, reporter at large Ray

[58:56] Summers.

[58:57] There he is, Thomas Jefferson, third

[59:00] president of the United States. That's

[59:02] how I remember him. I think there was a

[59:04] picture in my grade school. Looked just

[59:05] like that. Here in the newsroom 6

[59:08] library, the 1947 edition of the World

[59:11] Book Encyclopedia shows that he loved

[59:13] the outdoors and he liked music, too.

[59:17] did a lot of things while president and

[59:19] uh invented several items. He even put

[59:22] domes on buildings.

[59:25] Amazing all the things he did. In cities

[59:28] around the country, he is honored.

[59:30] Streets named after him. Office

[59:32] buildings, high schools. We have one of

[59:34] those. Even old electrical power

[59:36] substations no longer used. Presidents

[59:39] get remembered in lots of ways.

[59:42] As we remember Mr. Jefferson 250 years

[59:45] after his birth.

[59:47] A quote I found in a quote book and it's

[59:49] appropriate we do this in front of the

[59:51] federal building. Here it is. I place

[59:54] economy, he says, among the first and

[59:56] most important virtues and public debt

[59:59] as the greatest of dangers to be feared.

[60:02] To preserve our independence, we must

[60:04] not let our rulers load us with

[60:06] perpetual debt. We must make our choice

[60:09] between economy and liberty or profusion

[60:12] and servitude.

[60:14] I think Mr. Jefferson would like us to

[60:16] remember that even now

[60:19] at large.

[60:21] >> He wanted to be remembered for the

[60:22] Declaration of Independence for the

[60:24] University of Virginia and for the

[60:26] religious rights and freedoms bill of

[60:28] Virginia.

[60:29] >> Thank you for joining us. We will see

[60:31] you tonight at 11.

[60:32] >> Good night.