The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-03-17

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] wide.

[0:01] >> [music]

[0:04] >> Good evening. I'm Judy Woodruff in New

[0:05] York.

[0:06] >> And I'm Jim Lehrer in Washington. After

[0:08] our summary of the news this Tuesday,

[0:11] David Gergen and Mark Shields analyze

[0:13] Clinton and Bush primary victories in

[0:15] Michigan and Illinois, as well as the

[0:17] latest in the House check bouncing

[0:19] scandal. And Charlayne Hunter-Gault

[0:21] profiles the new republics of Armenia

[0:24] and Azerbaijan.

[0:26] >> Part of helping the world live and

[0:28] communicate better is keeping it well

[0:30] informed.

[0:33] That's why funding for the McNeil/Lehrer

[0:35] NewsHour is provided by AT&T.

[0:40] And by PepsiCo.

[0:44] >> [music]

[0:48] >> PepsiCo.

[0:50] And by the Corporation for Public

[0:52] Broadcasting.

[0:53] And viewers like you.

[0:55] >> This was a good day for Bill Clinton and

[0:57] President Bush in Illinois and Michigan.

[1:00] With the polls now closed, the

[1:02] television networks have projected

[1:04] Clinton and Bush victories in both

[1:06] states' presidential primaries. On the

[1:08] Democratic side in Illinois, the latest

[1:10] results show Clinton 43% to Sangus 32,

[1:14] Brown 17. That's only with 2% of the

[1:17] vote counted. In Michigan, Clinton 43 to

[1:20] Brown's 30, Sangus's 20. That's with 18%

[1:24] of the vote counted. In the Republican

[1:26] races in Michigan, Bush 66% to 26 for

[1:31] Pat Buchanan with 18% of the vote

[1:33] counted. And in Illinois, Bush 78%,

[1:36] Buchanan 21. That's with only 2% of the

[1:39] vote. We'll talk with Gergen and Shields

[1:41] about it all later in the program. The

[1:44] check bouncing scandal in the House of

[1:46] Representatives spread to the Bush

[1:47] cabinet today. Three cabinet members

[1:50] admitted they wrote overdraft checks at

[1:52] the now defunct House Bank when they

[1:54] served on on Hill. Defense Secretary

[1:57] Dick Cheney said he had at least 21

[1:59] problem checks, Agriculture Secretary

[2:01] Edward Madigan 49, Labor Secretary Lynn

[2:04] Martin 16. Last week, the House voted to

[2:07] disclose the names of all current and

[2:09] former members who over drew their

[2:11] accounts during a 39 month period ending

[2:14] last October. Cheney called a news

[2:16] conference at the Pentagon this

[2:17] afternoon.

[2:20] >> It's been my goal to conduct my personal

[2:22] life in such a way as to avoid even the

[2:26] appearance of impropriety.

[2:28] So, it is with considerable anger and

[2:30] frustration that I find myself here

[2:31] today

[2:33] having to account for the use of the

[2:34] Sergeant at Arms bank while I was a

[2:36] member of Congress.

[2:38] It is especially aggravating

[2:40] to be lumped together with others

[2:42] who were clearly abusing the system,

[2:44] taking advantage of their knowledge

[2:47] that the bank would never bounce a check

[2:50] in order to obtain no interest loans or

[2:52] significant advances against their

[2:53] paychecks.

[2:56] I would hope that anyone looking at this

[2:58] will look closely enough at the facts

[3:01] to be able to make distinctions between

[3:03] those of us

[3:05] who did not know the system could be

[3:08] abused and those who clearly were

[3:10] abusing the system.

[3:12] >> President Bush said today he does not

[3:14] think he bounced any checks when he

[3:16] served in the House of Representatives

[3:18] from 1967 to 71, but he was double

[3:21] checking his records. A spokesman for

[3:24] the Vice President said Mr. Quayle did

[3:26] not believe he wrote any overdrafts

[3:27] either during his years in the House

[3:29] from 1977 to 81. He said they were not

[3:32] looking any further into the matter at

[3:35] this time. We'll have more on the check

[3:36] story later in the program. Judy?

[3:39] >> The telephone records of the two

[3:41] reporters who broke the story of Anita

[3:43] Hill's charges against Supreme Court

[3:45] Justice Clarence Thomas have been

[3:47] subpoenaed by a special Senate counsel.

[3:50] Independent counsel Peter Fleming wants

[3:52] records for the two-week period before

[3:55] the sexual harassment charges were

[3:56] disclosed. They include calls from both

[3:59] the offices and the homes of the

[4:01] reporters who are Timothy Phelps of

[4:04] Newsday and Nina Totenberg of National

[4:06] Public Radio. Both have refused to say

[4:09] how they learned of the charges against

[4:11] Thomas. Their attorneys say they will

[4:13] try to block the special prosecutor's

[4:15] action. And today, Newsday's publisher

[4:18] called the subpoenas a quote, "gross,

[4:21] dangerous, and destructive invasion of

[4:23] the reporting process."

[4:25] >> On the economy, consumer prices went up

[4:27] in February 0.3%. Labor Department

[4:30] reported today, higher clothing and food

[4:33] costs were the main cause. Construction

[4:36] of new homes and apartments also rose in

[4:38] February to its highest level in nearly

[4:40] 2 years. And industrial production

[4:43] rebounded after a 3-month slide. The

[4:45] advance in output at the nation's

[4:47] factories, mines, and utilities was the

[4:49] strongest since July.

[4:51] >> There was a big turnout in South Africa

[4:53] today for the crucial whites-only

[4:56] referendum on ending apartheid.

[4:58] President F.W. de Klerk predicted he

[5:00] would get the victory he needed to

[5:02] continue his move towards sharing power

[5:05] with blacks. Jeremy Thompson of

[5:07] Independent Television News reports from

[5:10] Johannesburg.

[5:11] >> White South Africans queued as never

[5:13] before to cast a vote to will decide

[5:16] their destiny. In a country where

[5:18] polling has traditionally been marked by

[5:20] apathy and abstention, today's turnout

[5:22] was unprecedented. The early signs

[5:25] suggested an 80% ballot in some areas, a

[5:28] show that should favor Mr. de Klerk, the

[5:31] man who staked his political career on

[5:33] the outcome. Only a sizable yes vote

[5:36] majority will give the president the

[5:38] authority he needs to continue his drive

[5:41] towards non-racial democracy.

[5:43] His arch-rival, Dr. Treurnicht, whose

[5:46] right-wing campaign had gathered

[5:47] considerable support from whites who

[5:50] want to return to apartheid still looked

[5:52] confident as he cast his no vote.

[5:55] Most of his support will come from the

[5:57] rural heartland of the Afrikaners.

[6:00] But the huge turnout in cities like

[6:02] Johannesburg is expected to tip the

[6:04] balance towards Mr. de Klerk with

[6:06] thousands of newly registered voters

[6:08] holding yes.

[6:10] >> Voting hours were extended in many

[6:13] polling places because of the heavy

[6:15] turnout. Official results are not

[6:17] expected until tomorrow.

[6:19] >> Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Arens

[6:21] talked today to Secretary of State Baker

[6:23] about the $10 billion loan guarantee

[6:26] problem. Arens refused to take reporters

[6:28] questions on the matter after the

[6:30] Washington meeting, but on Israeli radio

[6:32] he said, "I don't think there is any

[6:34] issue of giving up on our part. We have

[6:37] presented our request and as it appears

[6:39] now, the request will not be honored."

[6:42] The United States wanted Israel to stop

[6:44] new settlement activity in the occupied

[6:46] territories in exchange for the loan

[6:48] guarantees, something Israel refused to

[6:51] do. Congressional leaders also met with

[6:53] President Bush on the issue today.

[6:56] Senator Patrick Leahy, Democrat of

[6:57] Vermont, said the president rejected

[6:59] their proposed compromise. At least 10

[7:02] people were killed today and 105 injured

[7:05] when a bomb ripped through the Israeli

[7:06] embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina. The

[7:09] mid-afternoon blast reduced the

[7:11] four-story building to rubble. The dead

[7:13] included three children and two

[7:15] policemen. Argentine President Carlos

[7:18] Menem blamed the attack on international

[7:20] terrorists.

[7:22] >> United Nations envoy Cyrus Vance arrived

[7:25] in the former Soviet Republic of

[7:27] Azerbaijan today. He said he was there

[7:29] on a fact-finding mission and not to

[7:32] mediate the Republic's dispute with

[7:34] Armenia over the enclave of

[7:36] Nagorno-Karabakh.

[7:38] Ethnic Armenians who live there have

[7:40] fought a bitter four-year battle against

[7:42] Azerbaijan for control of the territory.

[7:45] More than a thousand people have died in

[7:47] the fighting.

[7:49] Meanwhile, a manned Soyuz rocket blasted

[7:51] off from a former Soviet space center in

[7:54] Kazakhstan today. It was carrying a

[7:57] German and two Russian cosmonauts to the

[8:00] Mir space station. They will replace a

[8:02] cosmonaut who has been in the station

[8:04] for 10 months. He was supposed to return

[8:07] in October but was stranded because of

[8:10] the political upheaval in the Soviet

[8:12] Union.

[8:13] >> And that's it for the news summary

[8:14] tonight. Now it's on to Gergen and

[8:16] Shields on the primary results, the

[8:18] newest bounces in the House banking

[8:21] scandal, and the story of Azerbaijan and

[8:24] Armenia.

[8:28] >> [music]

[8:33] >> Now some analysis of today's Illinois

[8:35] and Michigan presidential primaries

[8:37] which produced victories for Bill

[8:39] Clinton and President Bush. It comes

[8:41] from Gergen and Shields. David Gergen,

[8:43] editor-at-large of U.S. News and World

[8:45] Report, and syndicated columnist Mark

[8:47] Shields, who joins us tonight from

[8:49] Henderson, Nevada.

[8:51] David, Clinton won both Michigan and

[8:54] Illinois rather handily.

[8:57] He might have done much better in

[8:58] Illinois than he did in Michigan, but

[8:59] nevertheless, is he the nominee of the

[9:01] Democratic Party? Almost.

[9:03] >> Almost for all intents and purposes.

[9:05] That crown is just hovering right over

[9:06] his head tonight, Jim. The These are

[9:08] dramatic victories in states that Paul

[9:10] Tsongas had said earlier were neutral

[9:12] territory. First time they'd gone

[9:14] head-to-head in neutral territory, and

[9:16] Clinton whupped him. And you have to say

[9:17] right now that these are I think these

[9:19] are the springboard to a nomination

[9:22] unless there's some further revelation

[9:24] that would blow him out of the water.

[9:25] But the other thing that's happening I

[9:26] find around the country is a

[9:28] A number of people are telling me

[9:29] they're beginning to admire the way he

[9:30] takes the blows as they come at him. He

[9:32] took another one this week, and even so,

[9:34] you know, Jerry Brown went after him in

[9:35] the debate, fierce debate, again Clinton

[9:38] goes at back after him and wins this big

[9:40] victory. So it's at least a big big

[9:41] victory for Bill Clinton tonight.

[9:43] >> The Brown Jerry Brown factor Mark Brown

[9:46] according to the results in thus far is

[9:49] getting a roughly 30% of the vote to

[9:52] compared to 43% for Clinton, 20% for

[9:55] Paul Tsongas. So going after Clinton is

[9:57] paying off for Brown. Is that Is that

[9:59] how Is that how you would interpret

[10:01] that?

[10:02] >> Well, I think it I think it's one

[10:03] interpretation, Jim. First of all, Jerry

[10:05] Brown has

[10:06] put together a coalition, an interesting

[10:08] coalition based upon the outsider. His

[10:11] His candidacy was certainly not hurt by

[10:13] the revelations out of Washington most

[10:15] recently on the House Bank. Every time

[10:18] there's bad news out of Washington

[10:20] corruption, corrosion, or compromise,

[10:23] Jerry Brown as as the anti-Washington

[10:26] outsider candidate is probably the most

[10:27] direct beneficiary. But he was able to

[10:31] really make it a two-way fight in large

[10:34] part in the closing days of both

[10:35] campaigns by taking on Bill Clinton

[10:37] personally. I think it it was an attack

[10:39] that probably helped

[10:41] both candidates. That Clinton did look

[10:44] strong in standing up for his wife who

[10:47] was the

[10:48] original target of criticisms or at

[10:50] least one target of the criticism. And

[10:52] it helped Brown by by making him the

[10:55] Clinton alternative and making it a mano

[10:57] a mano between the two.

[10:59] >> Mark, what's your reading of what's

[11:01] happened to Paul Tsongas?

[11:04] >> I think what happened to Paul Tsongas

[11:05] quite frankly, and David's right, he did

[11:07] say that this was neutral territory for

[11:09] the first time,

[11:11] is that he was unable in Michigan to

[11:14] establish any apparent relationship,

[11:18] emotional connect point with blue-collar

[11:21] workers of the kind who vote in a

[11:23] Democratic primary in that great

[11:24] industrial state. And it's interesting

[11:27] because Paul Tsongas had a fascinating

[11:29] story to tell. Paul Tsongas as a senator

[11:32] had played a key instrumental role in

[11:34] securing the

[11:36] guaranteed loan bailout for Chrysler and

[11:39] probably saved well over 100,000 jobs at

[11:42] Chrysler alone in

[11:45] in Michigan. And that was a story that

[11:46] was never communicated or never

[11:48] communicated in a way that seemed

[11:49] relevant to the primary voters today.

[11:52] >> What's your analysis, David, of why

[11:53] Tsongas hasn't been able to do any

[11:55] better, particularly in Michigan and

[11:56] Illinois?

[11:57] >> Well, Jim, I think that Paul Tsongas

[11:59] wasn't ready after New Hampshire to to

[12:01] move to a national campaign. And he went

[12:03] and did well in Maryland, but then the

[12:05] campaign moved south and

[12:06] you know, his campaign got lost

[12:08] somewhere down on Route 1 in Florida. I

[12:09] mean, we haven't seen him since. I mean,

[12:10] he hasn't been the same kind of

[12:11] candidate. He's been off balance. He

[12:13] hasn't had much to say. He's been Once

[12:15] Clinton went after him and he took the

[12:17] bait and started having a fight with

[12:19] Bill Clinton on over over various

[12:21] issues, he lost his message and he

[12:22] hasn't reconnected since.

[12:24] >> He said he had to do that, though. He

[12:25] said he had to prove that he could

[12:27] counterpunch. He could take it and then

[12:29] he could give it back.

[12:30] >> Unlike Michael Dukakis.

[12:31] >> Well, unlike Michael Dukakis and and and

[12:33] you know, he has been the ghost of

[12:35] Michael Dukakis has hovered over him in

[12:36] this campaign and it's been it's been

[12:38] trouble for him. But the fact was

[12:40] because he couldn't get back to his

[12:41] message and then as Mark points out,

[12:43] somehow the chemistry doesn't work

[12:45] between Paul Tsongas and the blue collar

[12:46] voters. I think I Yes, from my point of

[12:49] view,

[12:50] I wish Paul Tsongas would have stayed in

[12:51] this race because I think his message

[12:53] was an important one to hear. It was an

[12:54] alternative

[12:56] to what Bill Clinton and to what George

[12:58] Bush are presenting. It was a different

[12:59] way to look at the economy. And now I

[13:01] think he's getting squeezed out. I think

[13:02] I think Mark is right, it's coming down

[13:03] to a two-man race now,

[13:05] not between Tsongas and Clinton, but

[13:06] between between Clinton and Brown.

[13:09] >> On the Republican side, Mark, Pat

[13:11] Buchanan has now been soundly defeated

[13:14] in 15 straight primaries. What does he

[13:16] do now?

[13:17] >> I think he he licks his wounds,

[13:19] reconsiders, goes back to whatever

[13:21] drawing board he came up with a campaign

[13:23] originally and figures out uh he can

[13:25] salvage at this point.

[13:27] Uh and he's talking bravely about going

[13:29] on to California, but it gets tougher

[13:31] and tougher because even that 1/3

[13:33] protest vote that he had been collecting

[13:36] uh in states where he campaigned hard

[13:38] and in states where he didn't uh has has

[13:40] left him.

[13:40] >> Yeah. He has called uh David, he's

[13:43] called a news conference for tomorrow.

[13:44] His sister

[13:46] uh was quoted tonight as uh at least

[13:48] conceding that her her brother was not

[13:50] going to win the Republican nomination.

[13:52] >> Not this year.

[13:52] >> Not this year. What do you think he's

[13:54] going to do? And

[13:55] >> Should he do?

[13:55] >> Well, it sounds like he's going to

[13:57] because he's holding his press

[13:58] conference tomorrow, it sounds like he's

[13:59] going to scale back his campaign. He's

[14:00] going to pick two or three spots. He's

[14:02] going to he's going to move now to a

[14:04] much uh different kind of campaign mode,

[14:06] and that is he'll be more positive. He

[14:07] won't be going after the president. I

[14:09] assume he'll start going after Clinton

[14:11] uh more than he has in the past. And I

[14:13] think he will try to build a base of

[14:14] support for himself in the future and

[14:16] and try to define conservatism. I do

[14:18] think he wants to stay in as long as he

[14:20] can to have as much leverage as he can

[14:22] upon George Bush. It's clear that that's

[14:24] worked out that he's moved Bush right.

[14:26] >> How do you read the fact that he didn't

[14:28] seem to wear well? In other words, he

[14:29] did his best at the very beginning where

[14:31] people didn't know much about him, and

[14:33] the more they got to know about him, the

[14:35] the worse he's done in in each

[14:36] succeeding primary.

[14:38] >> I'm not sure I know the answer, but I do

[14:40] think that when he went south, he lost

[14:42] his message. And he began playing on

[14:44] racial fears and divisions, and I think

[14:46] that people took a different I think I

[14:48] think he went too negative in the south.

[14:50] That that that advertisement that we

[14:52] showed on the air one night, you know,

[14:53] where you remember he showed that of a

[14:54] uh

[14:54] >> Right. Right.

[14:54] >> of of of the the gay thing that that's

[14:57] the film and the one he went after the

[14:59] NEA. When he got into those issues in

[15:00] particular on the racial side,

[15:02] uh

[15:04] I I I I think people sort of had a

[15:05] reaction and and and sort of said, "I I

[15:06] I don't like this fellow as much as I

[15:08] thought he did." If he'd stuck to his

[15:09] message, my sense of it is that every

[15:11] candidate in this race

[15:13] has has got has has gone off his

[15:14] message. Bill Clinton to the least, but

[15:16] all of them, Bush, Buchanan, and Tsongas

[15:18] have all lost their message and they're

[15:20] a effective candidates today than they

[15:22] were two or three months ago.

[15:23] >> How do you analyze Buchanan's problem

[15:25] there on the message, Mark?

[15:27] >> Well, I I I think David is right. I

[15:28] think that Pat Buchanan was a

[15:30] surprisingly strong challenger in New

[15:32] Hampshire in large part because he was

[15:34] able to communicate sort of a

[15:36] conservative populist rage and and anger

[15:39] at the economic pain that was inflicted

[15:42] upon that state and its people.

[15:44] Uh and as he headed south, he started

[15:46] going with to other issues. He did He

[15:48] did move the president right, make no

[15:49] mistake about it. Uh George Bush became

[15:51] a a more ardent and importunate suitor

[15:55] uh of the uh of the conservative

[15:56] movement as a result of Pat Buchanan's

[15:59] candidacy.

[16:00] Uh but uh I I think that I don't think

[16:02] the National Endowment for the Arts was

[16:03] a bad issue. I think the execution was.

[16:06] I think the execution, David, the the

[16:08] commercial that David cited

[16:10] uh was was offensive to people. Uh I I

[16:13] think the issue itself is not a is is

[16:15] certainly not an issue that was Pat

[16:18] Buchanan shouldn't be uncomfortable with

[16:20] because it's it's one that he's on the

[16:22] popular side, quite frankly, as

[16:23] evidenced by the president's quick give

[16:25] it the exit and out the gate for the uh

[16:27] chairman of that uh agency.

[16:29] >> Okay. Well, look, gentlemen, let's go on

[16:31] on to the other big political story of

[16:32] this day, the new bounce in the

[16:34] check-bouncing scandal. Secretary of

[16:36] Defense Dick Cheney, Labor Secretary

[16:38] Lynn Martin, and Agriculture Secretary

[16:40] Edward Madigan all admitted they bounced

[16:42] checks while serving in the House of

[16:44] Representatives. Meanwhile, many current

[16:46] members of Congress have been trying to

[16:48] explain to the people back home what

[16:49] happened. We have two reports before we

[16:51] talk, Mark and David. The first here is

[16:53] from Elizabeth Brackett in Chicago.

[16:56] >> Charles A. Hayes

[16:58] >> Congressman Charles Hayes walked into

[17:00] his Chicago polling place this morning

[17:02] knowing he was in danger of losing his

[17:04] seat he has held for the past 9 and 1/2

[17:07] years.

[17:08] Hayes's name was listed as one of the 24

[17:10] worst abusers of congressional

[17:12] check-writing privileges.

[17:15] According to the Associated Press, Hayes

[17:17] wrote checks that over drew his account

[17:19] 716 times.

[17:22] Hayes called a weekend news conference

[17:23] to try and explain his problem to the

[17:25] voters.

[17:26] >> I over drew my account in small amounts.

[17:33] I covered any overdrafts.

[17:37] And I owe no money to anyone.

[17:40] >> The 74-year-old congressman was even

[17:42] more forceful at an election eve rally

[17:44] in a neighborhood church.

[17:46] >> I'm not a criminal.

[17:49] I have made no money

[17:52] off of the overdraft. I owe the

[17:54] government and nobody else nothing as a

[17:57] result of

[18:00] And I want you to understand it.

[18:03] And I'm telling you firsthand

[18:06] they're keeping it alive as long as they

[18:08] can

[18:10] and hoping they'll confuse you and get

[18:12] you to vote against

[18:14] me for the opponent who they control.

[18:17] Keep that in mind.

[18:18] >> The congressman says he still does not

[18:20] have a copy from the House Ethics

[18:22] Committee on how much he was overdrawn.

[18:25] And he says he is angry that information

[18:27] on his account was leaked to the press

[18:29] before it was given to him.

[18:31] Besides, he says, it is not an issue

[18:33] that voters care much about.

[18:35] And that was the case with some voters

[18:37] we talked to today.

[18:38] >> Doesn't bother me that much.

[18:40] >> Why not?

[18:40] >> Because I'm one of these people that

[18:43] chances are I may wind up bouncing one

[18:46] or two checks and what I may have gone

[18:48] over on my account.

[18:49] Although I realize the big hue and cry

[18:51] is that well, if if we run over then we

[18:54] have to pay a penalty and so forth and

[18:56] so on. Therefore, it's no big deal to

[18:59] me. I just go down and pay the penalty.

[19:00] Maybe next month or two I may even run

[19:03] over again. So I can understand an awful

[19:05] lot of people feel that well, if it

[19:07] happens to me that the nation be able to

[19:10] pay. If they had a if they had a

[19:12] situation where it didn't cost them

[19:13] anything, so what? It's not a big deal.

[19:16] >> But for other voters today, the

[19:17] congressman's overdrafts were a very big

[19:20] deal.

[19:21] >> We have to pay fees. We get penalized

[19:23] when we write bounced checks. I can't go

[19:25] to my bank and write a bounced check.

[19:26] They'll bounce me out the door. But how

[19:28] can they do it? They're supposed to be

[19:29] there to set an example. And instead,

[19:31] they're worse than us. You know, they're

[19:33] not setting any kind of an example. You

[19:35] know, and where is all this money coming

[19:37] from? Who's got to pay for all of this

[19:38] stuff that he goes and writes all these

[19:40] checks for? We do,

[19:41] we do. They're always screaming that the

[19:43] economy is bad, but then their own

[19:44] government are writing bounced checks.

[19:46] >> Congressman Hayes is facing his toughest

[19:48] campaign. He was first elected to fill

[19:51] the late Mayor Harold Washington's

[19:52] congressional seat in 1983.

[19:55] And his main opponent says the overdraft

[19:57] scandal could make the difference in

[19:59] this hotly contested race.

[20:01] >> Bobby Rush, 17th. How you doing? Bobby

[20:03] Rush, 17th, okay.

[20:05] >> Chicago Alderman Bobby Rush is the

[20:07] congressman's toughest opponent in the

[20:09] Democratic primary.

[20:10] Rush, one-time leader of the Black

[20:12] Panther Party in Chicago in the 1960s,

[20:15] says Congressman Hayes has not reached

[20:18] voters with an explanation of his

[20:19] actions.

[20:20] >> I would have expected him to be out here

[20:23] uh at 9:15 a.m. on this eve before

[20:26] saying, you know, uh

[20:28] forgive me or

[20:30] uh it won't happen again or he'd try to

[20:32] some explanation. But uh

[20:34] that's his that's just my opinion. I'm

[20:36] not I'm not counting on that one issue

[20:39] to be the issue that uh

[20:41] that uh is going to uh defeat Charlie

[20:44] Hayes.

[20:44] >> For some voters today, the congressman's

[20:46] overdraft problems was the issue that

[20:49] decided their vote.

[20:50] >> I think it's basically been the deciding

[20:52] factor in how I'm going to vote. Um

[20:54] neither one have campaigned very much in

[20:56] this neighborhood. Uh and we haven't

[20:58] heard much about either one, but his

[20:59] reaction to the overdraft, I think, has

[21:02] basically made up my mind on the

[21:03] decision.

[21:04] >> What did you hear in the reaction that

[21:06] bothered you?

[21:07] >> Uh his reaction was basically one of

[21:10] fluffing it off, pretty arrogant I

[21:12] thought. And not very responsive at all.

[21:14] >> Did you not vote for him because of

[21:15] that?

[21:16] >> Yeah,

[21:17] I didn't vote for him because of that.

[21:18] That was one of the main reasons, one of

[21:20] the big main reasons when I went to the

[21:22] polls and I thought, no, we can't we

[21:24] can't let this man get in here. No.

[21:27] No, he's not looking out for us. He's

[21:29] just looking out for his own welfare,

[21:30] you know. He's trying to enrich his

[21:32] life. Forget about ours. No, we're not

[21:34] going to listen to that.

[21:35] >> Congressman Hayes has won with more than

[21:37] 90% of the vote in his last three

[21:39] primary and general elections.

[21:42] But this time with a new district and a

[21:44] big problem, his incumbency may not mean

[21:46] as much as it has in the past.

[21:51] >> This is Connie Holman [music] in

[21:53] Cleveland.

[21:55] The festive St. Patrick's Day mood was

[21:57] already evident this morning. At the

[21:59] 102-year-old Arcade downtown,

[22:02] Clevelanders were gearing up for this

[22:03] afternoon's big annual parade,

[22:05] traditionally an event in which

[22:07] politicians get to go before an

[22:09] enthusiastic public. But this year their

[22:11] jubilation was overshadowed by a weekend

[22:13] of headlines identifying three Cleveland

[22:16] Democrats as having floated checks on

[22:18] their House bank accounts.

[22:20] Two members, eight-term Representative

[22:22] Mary Rose Oakar and five-termer Ed

[22:24] Feighan, also are on the notorious list

[22:27] of 24 current and former House members

[22:29] identified by the Ethics Committee as

[22:31] having repeated and significant

[22:33] overdrafts.

[22:35] In this overwhelmingly Democratic city,

[22:37] voters found the news disturbing.

[22:39] >> In the military, when I was in the

[22:41] military, if we wrote bad checks, we

[22:42] could get we'd get in trouble. We could

[22:44] even go to jail for it.

[22:46] >> I guess I'm never surprised any longer

[22:48] with those who represent us in

[22:50] Washington or even on the local or state

[22:53] level. Nothing amazes me or startles me

[22:56] too much anymore, but I always tend to

[22:59] still be disappointed.

[23:00] >> Rob Barrington, a computer specialist,

[23:03] is represented by Louis Stokes, the

[23:05] chairman of the House Ethics Committee,

[23:06] who last fall acknowledged a handful of

[23:09] overdrafts, then removed himself from

[23:11] the committee investigation.

[23:13] >> Well, what appears to me is an abuse of

[23:14] privilege.

[23:16] Um members of Congress [music] should be

[23:17] held to a much higher standard

[23:19] than their constituents.

[23:21] They should set an example for everybody

[23:23] else.

[23:24] >> Over the weekend, Representative Feighan

[23:26] appeared on a local news show and was

[23:28] confronted by his assertion just the day

[23:30] before that he would not be on the worst

[23:32] abuser list.

[23:33] >> We won't see your name on the worst 24.

[23:37] >> Well, again tonight, Congressman Feighan

[23:39] joins us live in our studio. And

[23:40] Congressman, after watching that replay

[23:42] from just 24 hours ago, did you speak

[23:43] too soon?

[23:44] >> Well, apparently I did, uh Dave, and uh

[23:46] I was stunned, actually, when I got a

[23:49] call tonight uh about this list. While

[23:51] the terms bad checks and bounced checks

[23:54] are being used, uh in fact, in almost

[23:56] all cases, we're not talking about uh

[23:59] bounced checks or bad checks. We're

[24:00] talking about checks that were written

[24:02] against an allowable overdraft allowance

[24:05] at the House Bank.

[24:06] >> For her part, Representative Oakar chose

[24:09] contrition about having overdrafted 217

[24:12] checks worth more than $227,000.

[24:15] >> I accept full responsibility. I mean, I

[24:18] accept full responsibility.

[24:20] And um

[24:22] and uh

[24:24] you know, I I

[24:25] feel very strongly that I made a mistake

[24:27] in handling that. On the other hand, I

[24:29] do think that the manner in which it

[24:32] operated uh and probably operated for a

[24:34] number of years, far before I was in

[24:37] Congress, left a lot to be desired, as

[24:39] well.

[24:40] >> But, apologies and explanations may not

[24:42] be enough. A Cleveland television

[24:44] station yesterday asked viewers whether

[24:46] they would vote to reelect a member of

[24:48] Congress with an overdrafted account of

[24:50] more than 20,000 who called in, 74% said

[24:54] they would not reelect a check bouncer.

[24:56] Such reactions, though unscientific,

[24:59] have local Republicans sensing a rare

[25:01] political opportunity.

[25:03] >> I love it.

[25:04] >> Roger Synenberg is co-chair of the local

[25:06] county Republican organization.

[25:09] >> People have seen Congresswoman Oakar and

[25:11] Congressman Feighan as virtually

[25:13] unbeatable in the past, but just in the

[25:16] last few days alone, we've had a number

[25:18] of uh

[25:19] recognizable county figures,

[25:21] Republicans, step forward and express an

[25:23] interest in those positions that they

[25:25] didn't have prior to this these recent

[25:27] revelations about this rubber gate.

[25:30] >> When the St. Patrick's Day parade got

[25:31] underway this afternoon, the only member

[25:34] of Cleveland's congressional delegation

[25:35] present was Congresswoman Oakar.

[25:38] >> I'd say to hang in there.

[25:40] Pretty much hang in there.

[25:41] >> Whether Cleveland's House Democrats can

[25:43] hang in there soon will be up to the

[25:45] voter.

[25:47] >> Again to David Gergen and Mark Shields.

[25:49] Mark, uh first, do the Cheney, Madigan,

[25:52] and Martin admissions get the Democrats

[25:54] off the political hook on this issue?

[25:56] >> I think it takes them off off the hook

[25:58] in terms of being a straight partisan

[26:00] issue, Jim. But of course uh

[26:03] revelations and disclosures that the

[26:05] Republican House leadership, among them,

[26:07] probably is accounted for a thousand

[26:09] checks of the total uh listed already,

[26:12] probably contributed to that already.

[26:14] But I still think that uh all incumbents

[26:16] are going to carry a burden going into

[26:18] the fall. There is a

[26:20] a perception among the American people,

[26:22] and this wouldn't have been as large an

[26:23] issue if that perception hadn't been

[26:25] there, that three out of four Americans

[26:27] believe legislators do not understand

[26:30] their concerns, and that this is one

[26:32] more example of a remoteness, uh that

[26:35] not playing by the same rules, of having

[26:38] a special preferences and special

[26:40] privileges that the ordinary citizens

[26:41] don't have.

[26:42] >> Do you agree with that, David?

[26:44] >> Not absolutely.

[26:45] I don't I agree that it takes the

[26:47] Democrats off the hook. I do think it

[26:48] blunts some of the Republican attacks.

[26:50] It makes it a little bit harder, but I

[26:51] don't think it changes the fundamentals.

[26:53] First fundamental is that this was an

[26:55] example of the bank continues to be a

[26:57] symbol of arrogance and entrenched power

[26:59] and in this case the Democrats happen to

[27:00] be the people in power and running it.

[27:02] Uh I think the vast majority of people

[27:04] in the house

[27:05] were victims of this system of a

[27:07] mismanaged bank but there were people

[27:08] who were gross offenders and we do know

[27:10] that four out of five of those

[27:11] apparently are Democrats. So that I

[27:13] think that it still weighs heavily on

[27:14] the Democrats. The other thing though

[27:15] Jim is that just the clips we saw

[27:17] tonight with Elizabeth and

[27:19] these showed how angry people are around

[27:22] the country. It's a volatile political

[27:23] situation. We don't yet have at this

[27:25] hour the results from the various

[27:26] congressional races in Illinois but we

[27:28] do know in the Senate race out of

[27:30] Illinois

[27:31] that Senator Alan Dixon long time

[27:35] durable figure in the Democratic Party

[27:37] expected to win by a large majority. You

[27:39] know the polls show him way up there

[27:41] going He was way up there and and and

[27:43] he's now apparently in a very close race

[27:44] tonight. Now that's not a reflection of

[27:46] the bank because it wasn't a Senate bank

[27:48] of course. It is a reflection of how

[27:50] many happy a lot of voters are with

[27:51] Washington.

[27:52] >> Yeah the latest

[27:54] here again this is a long way from being

[27:56] being uh

[27:57] uh definitive but uh with some early

[27:59] returns and also some exit polls mixed

[28:02] up it shows that the race is too close

[28:04] to call the uh among him and Carol

[28:07] Moseley Braun and Albert Hofeld. What do

[28:10] you think about that uh Mark? I mean

[28:12] Alan Dixon uh even if he ends up winning

[28:14] tonight uh

[28:16] it's going to be very close.

[28:18] >> Well you're absolutely right. Alan Dixon

[28:20] uh was the undefeated champion of uh

[28:23] Illinois politics uh and may very well

[28:25] be after tonight as well but this has

[28:27] been the scare of his life. He started

[28:28] at the age of 26 and winning elections

[28:31] ever since. Al the pal as he's known

[28:33] affectionately throughout the state.

[28:35] Voters of both parties I think in in

[28:37] this this primary

[28:39] uh Carol Moseley Braun is the recorder

[28:41] of deeds in Cook County and the highest

[28:44] ranking elected black official and I

[28:47] think that in part the Anita Hill vote

[28:51] in the Senate confirmation of Clarence

[28:53] Thomas last fall

[28:55] where he Alan Dixon broke with the

[28:58] Senate leadership and voted to confirm

[29:02] Clarence Thomas may very well turn out

[29:04] to have hurt him in this primary.

[29:07] Let me just add one thing Jim and that

[29:09] is that I don't know what Dave I never

[29:10] denigrate David's sources. They are

[29:12] terrific sources but four out of five I

[29:14] don't I I don't know you're talking

[29:16] about the original list that was

[29:18] released are you talking about the

[29:19] overall 355?

[29:21] >> I'm talking about the worst offenders

[29:22] list.

[29:23] >> Oh the worst offenders list of course

[29:24] which was

[29:25] >> Which turned out to be democratic.

[29:27] >> Which was which was leaked last last

[29:29] weekend.

[29:29] >> 23 Democrats and two Republicans.

[29:31] >> That's right. That's right. No no okay I

[29:33] I because of the 355 you're not

[29:35] certainly not suggesting I think

[29:36] >> You wanted to make the point you wanted

[29:37] to make the point it was six out of

[29:38] seven instead of three out of four.

[29:39] >> No I wanted to make I wanted to make the

[29:41] point that of all the cabinet offices

[29:42] who have revealed it they've all been

[29:44] Republicans David.

[29:45] >> [laughter]

[29:47] >> How about that David? I

[29:48] Do you believe that the that the voters

[29:51] around the country are going to be able

[29:52] to make the distinction between what

[29:54] those 24 on there 25 on them on the

[29:58] worst abusers list did and what say Dick

[30:00] Cheney and others did?

[30:02] >> Well I think that Dick Cheney was

[30:04] is in a large group of people Democrat

[30:06] and Republican who in fact are well

[30:10] known back in their districts as being

[30:11] honest people as hard working people and

[30:12] they bounced a few checks. I don't think

[30:14] that will be against them. I think by

[30:15] the fall it will disappear or at least

[30:17] dissipate as an issue

[30:19] but for the worst offenders

[30:22] there's a pattern of abuse here which is

[30:24] very very hard to explain and beyond

[30:26] that of course we now have a preliminary

[30:28] investigation underway by the

[30:30] prosecutor US Attorney's office here in

[30:32] Washington and if it shows a pattern of

[30:34] personal enrichment as well then I think

[30:36] those people are gone but I think those

[30:38] I think those 24 25 are going to have

[30:39] some very very

[30:40] problems in their districts.

[30:41] >> I was intrigued Mark, as I'm sure you

[30:44] were too, by one of the women in

[30:47] Elizabeth Brackett's piece from Illinois

[30:49] who said, "Congress should be held to a

[30:51] higher standard than the rest of us."

[30:54] That's an interesting point of view.

[30:56] >> It certainly is and and I think it's one

[30:58] that is absolutely legitimate and and

[31:00] widely held by Americans. And I I think

[31:02] it does account in part of these

[31:04] disappointments

[31:05] each time for a greater sense

[31:08] of alienation from from our elected

[31:10] office holders, whether it's disclosures

[31:12] about the way we finance our campaigns

[31:14] or the influence and and and importance

[31:17] of money in our politics.

[31:19] All of these contribute to a sense that

[31:21] they aren't what they aren't our elected

[31:24] leaders they and and people that we

[31:25] should look up to and historically have

[31:28] wanted to look up to.

[31:29] >> Just a general mood of disappointment,

[31:31] is there not?

[31:31] >> I I

[31:32] the line that stuck with me out of those

[31:33] two pieces gentlemen was was a was a

[31:35] woman I think it was in

[31:36] Ohio

[31:38] Ohio and Cleveland.

[31:40] Yes, right and said that

[31:42] nothing amazes nothing amazes me anymore

[31:44] but I'm still disappointed.

[31:46] And I think that captured the mood of a

[31:47] lot of the voters. Yeah.

[31:49] >> Yeah.

[31:50] Okay, we'll leave it there gentlemen and

[31:52] we'll see you here tomorrow night and

[31:53] talk in more detail about all of this.

[31:56] Thank you very much.

[32:00] >> Still ahead on the NewsHour tonight,

[32:02] Charlayne Hunter-Gault looks at the

[32:03] conflicted histories of Armenia and

[32:05] Azerbaijan.

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[39:08] >> Next time on Nova, the Earth from space,

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[39:34] >> It's where you belong, tonight at 8:00.

[39:41] >> [music]

[39:46] [music]

[39:55] [music]

[39:55] >> Finally tonight, another in our series

[39:57] of reports profiling the republics that

[40:00] used to make up the Soviet Union.

[40:02] Tonight, we turn to Armenia and

[40:04] Azerbaijan. They are presently fighting

[40:07] an undeclared war with one another for

[40:09] possession of the disputed enclave of

[40:11] Nagorno-Karabakh.

[40:13] But as Charlayne Hunter-Gault reports,

[40:15] today's conflict has ancient

[40:16] [clears throat] roots. To the Russians,

[40:18] they are the Transcaucasian Republics,

[40:21] literally across the Caucasian

[40:23] Mountains.

[40:24] Tucked into the southwestern corner of

[40:26] the former Soviet Union, Armenia and

[40:29] Azerbaijan have long served as both a

[40:31] buffer zone and battleground between the

[40:33] empires of East and West.

[40:36] Today, these neighbors wage an

[40:38] undeclared war, fighting over borders

[40:41] created by their old communist bosses.

[40:47] But the enmity predates the Soviet era

[40:49] by centuries.

[40:51] >> [music]

[40:51] >> When the Red Army rolled into the

[40:53] Caucasus, it found these towers of blood

[40:55] revenge, relics of medieval feuds.

[40:58] >> Memory [music]

[41:00] is the center of the way we create our

[41:03] own histories.

[41:04] And history is, in essence, the story we

[41:07] tell ourselves about who we want to be.

[41:10] >> Ronald Suny is a historian of Armenian

[41:13] descent.

[41:15] >> Sadly,

[41:16] those myths, those definitions of of who

[41:19] an Azerbaijani is or who an Armenian is,

[41:22] contained within them an idea of the

[41:24] other,

[41:25] of the enemy,

[41:27] of people who did violence to their

[41:28] forefathers.

[41:30] And it's very hard to eliminate those

[41:33] memories.

[41:34] >> Armenia was the smallest of the 15

[41:37] Soviet Republics. But in the 1st century

[41:39] BC, it stretched from the Mediterranean

[41:42] to the Black and Caspian Seas.

[41:45] In the western highlands, where Turks

[41:47] now till the soil, rises a symbol of the

[41:50] Armenian nation, Mount Ararat, the

[41:53] biblical resting place of Noah's Ark.

[41:56] >> And so, Armenians talk about being the

[41:59] original descendants

[42:01] of Noah. Indeed, I can tell you a story

[42:03] my grandmother told if you'd like. She

[42:06] told me that before the Tower of Babel,

[42:08] the original language of all the people

[42:10] in the world was Armenian. This was an

[42:13] uneducated woman, but this is a kind of

[42:14] pride she had in her nation.

[42:17] And she always insisted that I learn

[42:19] Armenian. Indeed, she said, "Armenian is

[42:21] the language that's spoken in heaven."

[42:24] >> In the year 314, Armenia became the

[42:26] first state to adopt Christianity.

[42:29] Armenians invented an alphabet with

[42:31] which to translate the Bible, making

[42:34] beautifully illuminated manuscript.

[42:36] Over the following centuries, as the

[42:38] nation was invaded by waves of Arabs,

[42:41] Persians, Turks, and Mongols, the

[42:44] Armenian Apostolic Church buttressed

[42:46] national identity.

[42:48] >> Armenians live in a sea of Muslims.

[42:51] And Christianity in many ways was the

[42:53] center of the Armenian culture and

[42:56] civilization through most of its

[42:58] history.

[43:00] The Armenian Church was the preserver of

[43:03] the Armenian tradition. That's the place

[43:05] where the manuscripts were written,

[43:07] where the histories were told and

[43:09] retold.

[43:11] >> This church in Southfield, Michigan,

[43:14] serves a similar purpose for suburban

[43:16] Detroit's large Armenian-American

[43:18] community. St. John's architecture is

[43:21] based on two churches near the Armenian

[43:24] capital of Yerevan, which date back to

[43:27] the 5th century.

[43:28] Inside, the congregation is building a

[43:31] museum for its large collection of art

[43:33] and artifacts, objects spanning nearly

[43:36] 3,000 years of Armenian history.

[43:39] >> Milan Kundera once said

[43:42] that a small nation can disappear and

[43:45] knows it.

[43:46] Building a museum like this is an effort

[43:48] to make sure Armenians never disappear.

[43:51] >> For Armenians, a very real threat. They

[43:54] are among the most persecuted people in

[43:56] history. Their greatest enemies have

[43:59] been the Ottoman Turks, who conquered

[44:01] Armenia in the 16th century and regarded

[44:04] their subjects with unease.

[44:06] >> On the one hand, Armenians were an

[44:08] industrious people. They were the chiefs

[44:10] of the Ottoman mint. They were the chief

[44:13] architect of the Sultan. They were

[44:16] present in the industrial communities in

[44:19] Istanbul and elsewhere.

[44:20] But on the other hand, they were this

[44:21] inferior non-Muslim people who seemed to

[44:24] be getting ahead too much, who seemed to

[44:26] be reversing the traditional hierarchy

[44:29] of Muslim on top and infidel on the

[44:32] bottom.

[44:33] >> The Russian empire expanded in the 19th

[44:36] century and took control of Eastern

[44:39] Armenia, setting the stage for what many

[44:41] call the defining event of modern

[44:44] Armenian consciousness.

[44:46] >> In 1915,

[44:47] when

[44:49] Turkey was at war with Russia, Armenians

[44:51] were caught between

[44:53] the two countries in which Armenians

[44:56] lived.

[44:57] And the Turks decided to deport

[44:59] Armenians from that

[45:01] front area

[45:03] and to solve

[45:05] the Armenian problem once and for all by

[45:07] essentially

[45:09] massacring them.

[45:11] >> To this day, Turkey insists the deaths

[45:13] were the collateral damage of warfare.

[45:16] But to the Armenians, it was genocide.

[45:21] It's estimated that anywhere from

[45:23] 600,000 to 1 and 1/2 million Armenians

[45:26] were killed.

[45:29] Amazingly, in 1918, the remaining

[45:31] Armenians defeated the Turkish army and

[45:34] set up an independent state covering

[45:36] most of historic Armenia.

[45:39] But in 1920, Turkey and Russia invaded

[45:42] again.

[45:43] The Soviets took over Eastern Armenia

[45:46] and made it a republic.

[45:48] Its neighbor to the east was the

[45:49] Republic of Azerbaijan, a relatively

[45:52] young nation by Armenian standards.

[45:55] It had been formed only 2 years earlier

[45:58] during the chaos following World War I

[46:01] and the Russian Revolution.

[46:03] For millennia, control of Azerbaijan had

[46:06] seesawed between Iranians and Turks.

[46:09] Azerbaijan's culture is a blend of both.

[46:13] The language is a Turkic dialect.

[46:18] The religion, the Shiite variety of

[46:20] Islam prevalent in Iran.

[46:23] Azeri social customs and foods are also

[46:26] similar to Iran.

[46:29] >> [music]

[46:30] >> The major cultural with the capital city

[46:32] at least up until about 19th century was

[46:36] Persian. Obviously, there were the

[46:38] Turkic influences, of course, was there.

[46:40] And from 19th century, the Ottoman

[46:43] influence also became stronger. And

[46:46] then, of course, the Russian cultural

[46:48] influence.

[46:49] >> Shireen Hunter, a political scientist,

[46:52] was born in the Iranian province of

[46:54] Azerbaijan, across the Aras River from

[46:57] Soviet Azerbaijan.

[46:59] The two Azerbaijans have been divided

[47:02] since the early 19th century, when Iran

[47:05] lost the war with Tsarist Russia.

[47:08] Russia had been fighting for access to

[47:10] warm water ports.

[47:12] In the bargain, it also won the

[47:14] soon-to-be discovered oil wealth of the

[47:16] city of Baku.

[47:18] >> Baku itself, which is originally named

[47:21] is Bardakube, literally meaning a city

[47:24] bitten by the wind or the windy city. Um

[47:28] it's the district of the Caspian

[47:31] Sea. Uh it was actually a small uh uh

[47:36] city. It wasn't of much consequence

[47:38] until the uh discovery of oil.

[47:43] >> Baku is the center of one of the most

[47:44] important oil fields of the world.

[47:47] Some of the oil pools that lay out under

[47:49] the Caspian Sea.

[47:51] And in order to get the oil out, they

[47:53] have had to drill wells down through the

[47:55] water.

[47:56] >> Baku was a turn-of-the-century boom

[47:58] town, attracting many Russians as well

[48:01] as Armenians, who were better educated

[48:03] than the Azerbaijanis, and got the

[48:05] better job. Resentment took root.

[48:09] >> Azerbaijanis, in their rhetoric, very

[48:11] much have a sense that they are the

[48:14] oppressed people of the region, that

[48:15] they have been denied their full

[48:17] expression, that they are not favored by

[48:21] the They were never favored by the

[48:23] Russian or the Soviet regime.

[48:25] And that Armenians were always given

[48:27] privilege.

[48:27] >> Initially, I think that when the

[48:30] Russians became dominant in that region,

[48:33] obviously, they felt that they had more

[48:36] in common with other Christian people in

[48:39] that part, whether it was Georgians or

[48:41] Armenians or others. And as a result,

[48:45] they Some of them gained much more

[48:48] important positions, for example, in

[48:50] government and so on, and

[48:52] they may have also acquired greater

[48:55] wealth, and and this might have

[48:56] contributed to the resentment or some

[48:59] kind of communal strife.

[49:02] >> The Russians occasionally exploited

[49:05] these tensions, inciting Armenians and

[49:07] Azerbaijanis to slaughter one another.

[49:10] Tens of thousands died in the pogroms of

[49:12] 1905 and 1918, with Armenians getting

[49:16] the worst of it.

[49:18] By the time the Red Army invaded in

[49:20] 1920, Armenia and Azerbaijan were too

[49:23] exhausted from fighting each other to

[49:25] resist.

[49:27] >> The conflict with the Azerbaijanis is a

[49:28] layered problem. First of all, Armenians

[49:31] see Azerbaijanis as Turks. They indeed

[49:34] are Turkic people, they speak a Turkic

[49:36] language. They themselves see affinities

[49:39] with the Ottoman and post-Ottoman Turks.

[49:42] And so, for Armenians, these are cousins

[49:45] of their greatest enemy.

[49:46] >> And then there's the territorial

[49:47] problem.

[49:47] >> Right. That A small part of what was

[49:50] historic Armenia, called Karabakh or in

[49:53] Armenian Artsakh

[49:55] ended up both in the Tsarist period and

[49:57] the Soviet period in what is now

[49:59] Azerbaijan.

[50:00] >> Nagorno or mountainous Karabakh is the

[50:04] easternmost area of historic Armenia.

[50:07] Both Armenians and Azerbaijanis have

[50:10] lived there, but Armenians have been in

[50:12] the majority since the mid-1800s.

[50:15] When the Soviets carved out the

[50:17] republics, they shifted Armenia's

[50:19] borders to exclude Karabakh.

[50:22] And for nearly 70 years Soviet power

[50:25] stifled disputes.

[50:27] But with glasnost in the mid-80s, the

[50:29] Armenians organized a movement to

[50:32] reclaim the territory.

[50:34] Azerbaijanis countered with their own

[50:36] nationalistic demonstrations to retain

[50:39] Karabakh.

[50:40] >> It has come somehow to symbolize their

[50:43] quest for nationhood, for cultural and

[50:47] national independence,

[50:50] and uh political identity.

[50:53] >> The region's pre-Soviet history had

[50:55] resumed with Azerbaijan struggling to

[50:58] become a nation and Armenia to remain

[51:01] one.

[51:02] Violence broke out in 1988.

[51:07] >> They ripped my clothes

[51:10] and started wildly beating me with

[51:12] anything they could lay their hands on.

[51:15] They tried to cut off my pullover.

[51:19] And right next to me they went at my

[51:20] husband

[51:22] hacking with an axe.

[51:27] They tortured and burned his body.

[51:32] >> When I went to get my son's body, there

[51:34] was a militia man named Makhmudov

[51:37] who asked me, "Why are you crying? It's

[51:39] not enough for you? We should have

[51:40] destroyed all your kind."

[51:43] Like this.

[51:48] >> More than a thousand people have died so

[51:50] far fighting over Karabakh, and the

[51:53] violence has spread throughout the two

[51:55] republics, creating hundreds of

[51:57] thousands of refugees on both sides.

[52:01] Even the earthquake that killed 25,000

[52:03] Armenians failed to bring a truce as

[52:06] Armenians claimed the Azerbaijanis

[52:08] blockaded relief supplies.

[52:11] Despite calls for a cease-fire, the

[52:13] death toll continues to mount in a

[52:16] struggle fueled by age-old ethnic hatred

[52:19] and new-found nationalist resolve.

[52:27] >> [music]

[52:31] >> Again, the major stories of this

[52:33] Tuesday, Bill Clinton and President Bush

[52:35] won the presidential primaries in

[52:37] Illinois and Michigan. Here are the

[52:39] latest results. In Illinois, Clinton 46

[52:43] to Paul Tsongas' 30, Jerry Brown 16%.

[52:46] That's with 18% of the vote counted.

[52:50] In Michigan, among the Democrats,

[52:51] Clinton 45, Jerry Brown a strong 30%,

[52:55] Paul Tsongas 19. That's with 33% of the

[52:57] vote counted.

[52:59] On the Republican side in Michigan,

[53:01] President Bush 67% to Pat Buchanan's

[53:03] 26%. That's with a third of the vote

[53:06] counted.

[53:07] And in Illinois, President with 77% to

[53:10] Buchanan's 21%. That's with 19% of the

[53:13] vote counted.

[53:15] Also today, three members of the Bush

[53:17] cabinet admitted they bounced checks at

[53:19] the House bank when they served in

[53:20] Congress. Defense Secretary Dick Cheney

[53:22] said he wrote 21, Agriculture Secretary

[53:25] Edward Madigan 49, Labor Secretary Lynn

[53:28] Martin 16. And that's our NewsHour for

[53:30] tonight. We'll see you tomorrow night

[53:32] with full analysis of the primary

[53:34] results, among other things. I'm Jim

[53:36] Lehrer. Thank you and good night.

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