PBS NewsHour - 1996-03-15

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:06] Good evening. I'm [music] Elizabeth

[0:07] Farnsworth. Jim Lehrer is off. On the

[0:09] NewsHour tonight, a Bosnia update.

[0:12] Charlayne Hunter-Gault talks with the

[0:13] administration's new point man.

[0:16] Presidential politics. Kwame Holman

[0:18] reports on the Pennsylvania Avenue

[0:20] face-off. Plus, Shields and Shigoto on

[0:23] the week's politics and the Utah

[0:25] wilderness. Tom Bearden looks at how

[0:27] much is enough. All tonight on the

[0:29] NewsHour.

[0:31] Major funding for the NewsHour with Jim

[0:33] Lehrer has been provided by the Archer

[0:35] Daniels Midland Company, [music]

[0:36] ADM, supermarket to the world.

[0:40] And by New York Life, yet another

[0:43] example of New York Life's wise

[0:46] investment philosophy.

[0:49] And by the Corporation for Public

[0:51] Broadcasting and by the annual financial

[0:54] support from viewers like you.

[0:57] China announced today it plans to

[0:59] conduct a new round of military

[1:00] exercises off the coast of Taiwan. This

[1:03] third round of war games will start next

[1:05] week. The air and sea exercises will be

[1:07] held even closer to the island than the

[1:09] previous ones.

[1:10] Yesterday, the Pentagon reported China

[1:12] had promised not to attack Taiwan, but

[1:15] today White House spokesman Mike McCurry

[1:17] said he could not confirm those reports.

[1:20] We take a very dim view of these

[1:22] exercises. We think they are

[1:23] unnecessarily provocative and we believe

[1:26] the issue of Taiwan ought to be

[1:28] addressed through a peaceful dialogue.

[1:30] We've been critical, as you know, of the

[1:32] exercises themselves. We have raised our

[1:35] concerns directly with the People's

[1:36] Republic about the nature of these

[1:39] exercises and encouraged utmost caution

[1:42] to ensure that they don't exacerbate an

[1:44] already tense situation.

[1:47] China ended war game missile testing

[1:49] today with a demonstration of firepower

[1:51] 40 miles from the coast of Taiwan. China

[1:54] has said its military maneuvers are

[1:56] intended to curb pro-independence

[1:58] sentiment on Taiwan. The island is

[2:00] preparing for its first direct

[2:02] presidential election on March 23rd.

[2:04] China claims sovereignty over Taiwan.

[2:07] In Bosnia today, a US soldier was shot

[2:09] and wounded near Tuzla. The incident

[2:11] occurred when Army Specialist Shawn

[2:13] Austin confronted an intruder at the

[2:15] American base camp. A NATO spokesman

[2:18] said Austin is hospitalized in stable

[2:20] condition with a shoulder wound. His

[2:22] injuries are not considered

[2:24] life-threatening. The intruder fled the

[2:26] scene. It was the second time an

[2:27] American soldier has been shot since the

[2:29] peacekeeping force deployed last

[2:31] December. First Lady Hillary Clinton

[2:33] will make an official visit to Bosnia

[2:35] March 23rd. Mrs. Clinton will spend time

[2:38] with American troops in Tuzla. She will

[2:40] also visit soldiers' families in

[2:42] Germany.

[2:43] In Israel today, the Israeli military

[2:45] said it would lift travel restrictions

[2:47] on Palestinians within the West Bank.

[2:50] Roadblocks throughout the area had

[2:51] confined Palestinians to their towns and

[2:53] villages. An army statement said

[2:55] Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the

[2:57] West Bank would still be barred from

[2:59] entering Israel. The blockade was

[3:01] imposed nearly 3 weeks ago after a wave

[3:03] of militant Muslim suicide bombings

[3:05] began in the Jewish state. 58 people

[3:08] were killed in those attacks.

[3:10] President Clinton welcomed Irish Prime

[3:11] Minister John Bruton at the White House

[3:13] today. Mr. Clinton accepted a crystal

[3:16] bowl filled with shamrocks from Bruton,

[3:18] a symbol of St. Patrick's Day, which is

[3:20] Sunday.

[3:21] On a more serious note, the leaders

[3:22] discussed the struggle for peace in

[3:24] Northern Ireland. Bruton renewed his

[3:26] call for the Irish Republican Army to

[3:28] lay down its arms. He said that was the

[3:31] only way the IRA's political wing, Sinn

[3:33] Fein, could join in the peace talks.

[3:36] I want to stress that the only

[3:39] qualification required of any party for

[3:42] participation in those talks is that

[3:45] they should not support a campaign of

[3:48] violence. And I ask the IRA

[3:52] uh to reinstate the ceasefire so that

[3:54] Sinn Fein will be able to take their

[3:57] unique and deserved part in the talks

[4:00] that will be starting on the 10th of

[4:02] June.

[4:03] Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is also

[4:05] commemorating St. Patrick's Day in the

[4:07] United States. A spokesman said Adams

[4:10] was not invited to the White House

[4:12] because of renewed IRA attacks.

[4:14] In the budget story, President Clinton

[4:16] signed a stopgap spending bill late

[4:18] today. It will keep the government

[4:19] running through next week. The current

[4:21] spending authority expired at midnight.

[4:24] Congress and the president now have

[4:25] another week to negotiate a budget

[4:27] compromise for the rest of the fiscal

[4:29] year.

[4:30] Congressional Republicans agreed to vote

[4:32] sometime this month on a line item veto.

[4:34] It would allow the president to veto

[4:36] individual items in spending bills

[4:38] without having to veto the entire

[4:40] measure. Democrats said there was a

[4:42] reasonable chance they would support the

[4:44] bill.

[4:45] In the tobacco liability story, the

[4:47] maker of Chesterfield cigarettes today

[4:49] settled lawsuits with five states. They

[4:51] were suing to recover millions of

[4:53] dollars paid to Medicare Medicaid

[4:55] recipients with smoking-related

[4:57] illnesses.

[4:58] The Liggett Group agreed to pay the

[4:59] state up to 7.5% of its annual profits

[5:02] for 25 years. It will help cover current

[5:05] and future health care costs for

[5:07] smokers. On Wednesday, Liggett also

[5:10] announced a tentative settlement in a

[5:11] class action suit brought by addicted

[5:14] smokers.

[5:15] AT&T will lay off 18,000 workers, many

[5:18] fewer than originally announced. The

[5:20] telecommunications company said in

[5:22] January it would eliminate about 40,000

[5:24] jobs over the next 2 years. The company

[5:27] reduced the number of layoffs because

[5:28] more employees than expected took

[5:30] buyouts or found other jobs within the

[5:33] within the company.

[5:35] That's it for the news summary this

[5:36] Friday. Now it's on to a Bosnia update.

[5:39] The face-off on Pennsylvania Avenue,

[5:42] Shields and Shigoto, and a dispute over

[5:45] Utah's wilderness.

[5:55] First tonight, an update on the Bosnia

[5:57] peace process. Charlayne Hunter-Gault

[5:59] has that.

[6:01] The big guns that ripped apart Sarajevo

[6:03] and other Bosnian towns are quiet and

[6:06] thousands are trying to get their lives

[6:08] back to something resembling normal.

[6:11] But the peace brought about by the

[6:13] Dayton Accord and 60,000 international

[6:16] troops has been a nervous one.

[6:19] Just today, an American soldier was shot

[6:22] and wounded by an intruder at his base

[6:24] camp south of Tuzla.

[6:26] Also, an important deadline approaches

[6:29] on Tuesday, March 19th.

[6:32] Five suburbs around Sarajevo are

[6:34] supposed to revert to Bosnian government

[6:36] control.

[6:38] Four of the five have already been

[6:40] transferred.

[6:42] But militant Serbs have only grudgingly

[6:45] given up control, demanding all Serb

[6:48] residents depart rather than live with

[6:51] Muslims. They set fire to houses and

[6:53] buildings and there was no intervention

[6:56] from NATO troops to stop the destruction

[6:58] and intimidation.

[7:00] There were also reports of intimidation

[7:02] by some Muslim groups. Then there's the

[7:05] issue of pursuing indicted war criminals

[7:08] such as Bosnian Serb General Ratko

[7:10] Mladic. That still thwarts the

[7:13] international peacekeepers. Mladic, who

[7:16] went skiing before news cameras, and

[7:18] Bosnian Serb President Radovan Karadzic

[7:21] still appear in public but have yet to

[7:23] be arrested by NATO troops.

[7:26] Many of these problems will be pursued

[7:28] in diplomatic conferences this coming

[7:30] week. Handling the issue for the United

[7:32] States will be Acting Assistant

[7:34] Secretary of State John Kornblum, the

[7:36] man who replaced Richard Holbrooke as

[7:39] the Bosnia point man for the Clinton

[7:41] administration. I talked with him

[7:43] earlier today at the State Department.

[7:45] Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us.

[7:47] My pleasure. Just briefly first, today's

[7:50] news. There was a US soldier shot in

[7:52] Tuzla. What can you tell us about how it

[7:54] happened and what his condition is?

[7:55] Well, I think what I can tell you is

[7:57] more or less what the army has

[7:59] announced that is that he was on patrol.

[8:01] He encountered someone who shot at him,

[8:04] hit him.

[8:05] He has a wound. I think it's in his

[8:06] shoulder. He's not in any danger.

[8:09] And these are the kinds of incidents

[8:10] that one encounters in this kind of

[8:13] situation. There's a meeting scheduled

[8:16] for Monday in Geneva with all three of

[8:19] the Balkan leaders and Secretary

[8:21] Christopher. Is this a crisis meeting?

[8:23] No, not at all. In fact, it's a meeting

[8:26] designed to make sure that we don't have

[8:28] difficulties.

[8:30] Uh the 19th, which is Tuesday, is the

[8:32] 90th day after

[8:34] the beginning of implementation,

[8:35] so-called D plus 90.

[8:38] This first phase has been complicated

[8:41] but has been fairly clear-cut. Military

[8:43] forces were separated, uh security was

[8:46] guaranteed, borders were redrawn, and it

[8:49] was very much within the responsibility

[8:51] of IFOR, the military forces, to do

[8:53] this.

[8:54] Now that that this stage has been

[8:56] reached, next stage is going to be

[8:59] quite difficult. It's going to be

[9:01] changing behavior, bringing the

[9:04] agreement to people, making it living

[9:06] for them, resettling families,

[9:08] pursuing economic reconstruction.

[9:11] And um our impression after lots of

[9:14] discussions that we've had over the past

[9:15] couple weeks was that it would be useful

[9:18] to take advantage of the presence of

[9:20] Secretary Christopher. Secretary

[9:21] Christopher is not going to Geneva

[9:23] specifically for this meeting. He is

[9:26] there to address the Conference on

[9:27] Disarmament on important nuclear

[9:29] nonproliferation issues and testing. And

[9:32] so we're taking advantage of his

[9:34] presence there,

[9:35] inviting other members of the contact

[9:37] group at my level, the so-called

[9:38] political directors level,

[9:40] to

[9:41] with the three presidents

[9:43] to both um

[9:45] uh discuss which issues will be

[9:47] important in this new phase and to help

[9:49] give a political impulse to the phase

[9:51] which is beginning. Well, there are many

[9:53] people now, as you probably know, who

[9:55] are saying, including Admiral Leighton

[9:57] Smith, who is in charge of the um

[9:59] international force, saying

[10:01] [clears throat] that the military side

[10:02] has proceeded well, but that the

[10:05] civilian side, the political side is

[10:09] is problematic. And we've seen in the

[10:12] evacuation of the Sarajevo suburbs,

[10:15] we've seen violence, we've seen fires

[10:17] set. You were just there yourself.

[10:19] >> there on Monday, yes. Intimidation, I

[10:21] understand, by both sides. Tell me what

[10:23] your what you saw there and how much of

[10:26] a concern this is.

[10:27] >> Well, the concerns are real and the

[10:28] judgments are correct, but of course

[10:30] they're only half the story.

[10:32] Uh the agreement is designed to go in

[10:34] stages.

[10:35] And the first stage was, in fact, the

[10:38] military separation.

[10:39] And in military parlance, D plus 90 is

[10:43] the point that we've reached now and and

[10:44] the first phase has been very

[10:46] successful. It is correct to express

[10:48] concern about the next steps because

[10:51] they are really deep steps. They are

[10:53] where the behavior of people has to

[10:56] change, where their commitment to

[10:58] overcoming the hostilities and the

[11:01] wounds and also the hatreds which led to

[11:03] this war has to become real, not on

[11:05] paper, but real. But when you see what

[11:07] you saw, I mean, tell me you you saw the

[11:09] fire.

[11:10] >> lots of things and I I

[11:11] >> Tell us what you saw. I saw a suburb

[11:14] which is uh already war-torn, as they

[11:17] say, uh in which uh there were lots of

[11:20] people moving out, in which buildings

[11:21] were on fire.

[11:22] >> Which one was that? Ilidža?

[11:23] >> Uh this was Ilidža that I went through,

[11:25] yes. And so these are all real things.

[11:27] The Were these fires set These were

[11:29] >> set by people who were leaving. The

[11:31] Serbs.

[11:31] >> The Serbs, yeah. But they were also it's

[11:33] also reported that there were Muslim

[11:36] Yeah, there there I wasn't there when

[11:37] this was happening. This was after uh

[11:39] Muslim control happened that there were

[11:41] Muslim looters, yes. This is all very

[11:43] deplorable.

[11:44] But of course it reflects what we found

[11:47] when we got there, which is a country

[11:50] with the deepest resentments and and uh

[11:54] confrontations which after after all led

[11:56] to fighting and war. But what can be

[11:58] done? I mean, for example, these people

[12:00] who've been left the the Serbs who chose

[12:03] to stay in some of these suburbs tend to

[12:06] be elderly people. Now, the

[12:07] international force has encouraged the

[12:09] Serbs to stay, but the people are

[12:12] complaining that they're not doing

[12:13] anything to protect them against this

[12:16] violence and intimidation.

[12:18] >> Well, that's um not their job. I mean,

[12:20] they did try and guarantee general

[12:22] security as this was happening, but the

[12:24] the real task now, and that's again one

[12:26] of the tasks that we probably will

[12:27] discuss in Geneva, is to build up a

[12:29] civilian police force. Well, is anything

[12:31] going to change in terms of what the

[12:33] international forces can do? I mean, do

[12:36] you still have confidence that the local

[12:38] forces can handle this given all that

[12:40] you've seen and all that's happened?

[12:42] >> At this point, of course, no. That's

[12:44] again one of but we have a group called

[12:46] the international police task force,

[12:48] which is building up to have about 2,000

[12:51] police monitors. We have police um

[12:55] uh

[12:55] um building programs uh advice programs

[12:58] uh the a strong federal police is being

[13:01] set up. And so um all of these that in a

[13:04] way again goes back to the reason for

[13:06] this meeting in Geneva. All of these are

[13:08] very difficult internal tasks, which are

[13:11] all written down in Dayton, by the way.

[13:13] We've known this was coming. I think the

[13:15] point here is not

[13:17] that we're meeting some new crisis or

[13:19] there is a whole raft of unforeseen

[13:21] questions, but rather we've known this

[13:23] was coming. And we knew that once we got

[13:25] through the first uh

[13:27] um phase of separating the forces that

[13:29] the next phase would be this very

[13:31] difficult phase of establishing civil

[13:33] society is what we're really talking

[13:35] about. And as you know, we're aiming for

[13:36] elections in August or maybe early

[13:39] September and to make sure that these

[13:41] elections are a success,

[13:44] a very strong sense of civil society has

[13:46] to be begun and that is what this next

[13:48] phase is going to be about. So you say

[13:51] there've been no surprises at this

[13:53] point. Not really. I mean, it's that

[13:55] would be a foolhardy thing to say.

[13:57] There've been so many things happening

[14:00] that a lot of them have been surprising,

[14:01] some of them bad, some of them good

[14:02] surprises. But I think it is safe to say

[14:06] that the implementation of the agreement

[14:09] is as such on track

[14:11] that certainly this first phase of

[14:13] establishing the entities, of drawing

[14:14] the borders, of separating the forces

[14:16] has proceeded really quite

[14:18] satisfactorily. But we're not at all

[14:20] saying I'm not at all overly optimistic

[14:23] about what the next phase is going to

[14:25] bring. Has what you've experienced so

[14:27] far caused you to rethink any of the

[14:30] roles and positions that the US has

[14:33] taken or that you've outlined for the

[14:35] international force?

[14:37] Um I think not. I think again, it's

[14:40] going

[14:41] about as it was agreed in Dayton. Uh the

[14:45] the basic point again to remember is

[14:47] that this is a very new kind of

[14:49] undertaking. For example, we've had not

[14:52] bad experience at all in in um in

[14:55] getting access to uh

[14:57] uh grave sites for war crimes, etc.

[15:00] Maybe better than we thought we would.

[15:02] On the other hand, some of the

[15:04] cooperation of local officials,

[15:05] including in the Bosnian Croat

[15:08] Federation, has not been

[15:10] as good or or as satisfactory as we

[15:11] thought it should be. Well, there are

[15:13] reports that this Bosnian Croat

[15:15] Federation is about to fall apart. I

[15:17] mean, isn't that the linchpin of the

[15:18] Dayton accord?

[15:19] >> a very important part of it. So how how

[15:21] how real is that reporting that this is

[15:24] coming apart?

[15:24] >> it's not it's not about to fall apart.

[15:26] And in fact, if you go through and this

[15:28] is, after all, a very detailed and

[15:29] somewhat pedantic agreement sometimes,

[15:31] if you go through all the steps taken, a

[15:34] lot of them a lot of the structures have

[15:36] been set up. But

[15:38] we know that more needs to be done, that

[15:42] more cooperation and a more open and

[15:44] tolerant attitude among the people needs

[15:46] to be pursued. And this again is the

[15:49] reason that a good strong political

[15:51] impulse right now could be very useful.

[15:53] You you mentioned access to the graves,

[15:56] to the the grave sites. What about the

[15:58] pursuit of war criminals? There are

[16:00] reports of sightings on the ski slopes

[16:04] and elsewhere of indicted war criminals,

[16:07] Radovan Karadžić and uh Ratko Mladić. Uh

[16:12] what's the status of that? Well, I think

[16:14] there's general agreement that it's not

[16:17] either the job of IFOR, for example, or

[16:20] a reasonable task to ask it to do to go

[16:22] out on sort of search out missions. As

[16:25] far as those who wish to, if you will,

[16:30] play cat and mouse with us or with IFOR,

[16:34] um that is uh

[16:36] is uh uh a

[16:38] a problem which can't simply be solved

[16:41] by going out and getting them. There is

[16:42] there there are posters around, the

[16:44] pictures are there, and IFOR, of course,

[16:46] will arrest them if they're able to do

[16:49] so, but they cannot be expected to mount

[16:51] major missions to try and go out and

[16:52] find them.

[16:53] Finally, Mr. Secretary, let me ask you

[16:55] this. When we interviewed Richard

[16:56] Holbrooke, your predecessor, uh in his

[16:59] farewell uh interview when leaving the

[17:02] department, he he said that his impulse,

[17:06] his passion about Bosnia, had derived

[17:08] from going there and seeing neighbor

[17:11] killing neighbor, personal

[17:14] uh warfare, as it were. And what impulse

[17:17] Do you Do you have similar impulses or

[17:19] is there another calling to your mission

[17:22] uh to Bosnia? Well, I have, of course,

[17:25] worked with Mr. Holbrooke during this

[17:26] whole period. I was his senior deputy

[17:29] and so shared all of these experiences

[17:31] and all of the the impressions and

[17:33] feelings that he had were very much mine

[17:35] also. I think now that he accomplished

[17:38] this great feat of putting this

[17:39] agreement together,

[17:41] um a first very strong impulse of all of

[17:44] us is to make it work.

[17:46] But why make it work? Well, make it work

[17:47] because first the killing has now

[17:49] stopped.

[17:50] We have never sat down, would be silly

[17:52] to do so, to try to figure out how many

[17:55] lives have been saved, how many people

[17:57] haven't died, but it's in the tens of

[17:58] thousands because we got a cease-fire in

[18:01] the fall and because this agreement.

[18:02] That is a very strong feeling that we

[18:04] have. But secondly, this war really is

[18:07] or really was, the situation really is

[18:10] and was a sort of cancer.

[18:12] Uh it could spread to other places. It

[18:15] could hold back democratic development

[18:16] in other parts of Europe. And in the

[18:18] end, it if left unchecked, it could

[18:21] really give the impression that if

[18:23] you're determined enough

[18:25] and uh angry enough

[18:27] and bloodthirsty enough, you can do

[18:29] whatever you want to do. And that is a

[18:31] very strong impulse to make clear that

[18:33] that kind of behavior isn't acceptable

[18:35] in the modern world. And in making this

[18:36] agreement work,

[18:38] I think we all think, all of us who work

[18:39] on this, and we have a very large team

[18:41] who's doing it, believe that we are also

[18:44] uh setting a signal for a peaceful

[18:46] development, which is really very

[18:48] necessary in this world that we're

[18:49] living in.

[18:51] Well, Mr. Secretary, thank you. It was

[18:52] very nice to be with you. Thank you.

[18:54] Still to come on the NewsHour tonight,

[18:56] the face-off on Pennsylvania Avenue,

[18:59] Shields and Shikao, and a dispute over

[19:01] Utah's wilderness. But first, this is

[19:03] pledge week on public television. We're

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[19:10] That support helps keep programs like

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[19:21] Hi, I'm Jeff Douglas of OPB's Oregon

[19:24] Field Guide. Too many talking heads.

[19:27] That's the knock a lot of critics and TV

[19:28] journalists put on the NewsHour when it

[19:30] first appeared on the scene more than 18

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[19:37] Viewers need action. If you can't get a

[19:40] picture of it, it isn't worth

[19:41] reporting." That's still the idea that

[19:43] dominates news coverage on CNN and the

[19:46] network news.

[19:47] Hi, I'm Shelley Posey. Stories get

[19:50] condensed into little more than

[19:52] headlines. A minute on CNN and the

[19:54] networks is considered a lot of time to

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[19:59] Lehrer knows better and so do you. And

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[20:10] A kind of vindication? I'd say so.

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[26:40] Now, presidential politics and what

[26:42] happens when the major candidates are

[26:44] also major players in Washington. This

[26:47] was the week Senate Majority Leader Bob

[26:49] Dole took a commanding lead in the

[26:50] Republican delegate count and drove

[26:53] Steve Forbes out of the contest. Kwame

[26:55] Holman reports on how the looming

[26:57] face-off between Dole and President

[26:59] Clinton is affecting the course of

[27:01] legislation in Congress.

[27:03] Bob Dole returned to Washington on

[27:05] Tuesday with his nomination as the

[27:07] Republican candidate for president

[27:08] almost a mathematical certainty.

[27:11] Judging by his response to questions,

[27:13] the Senate Majority Leader is ready to

[27:15] fight much of the upcoming election

[27:16] campaign right there on Capitol Hill.

[27:19] President Clinton

[27:20] was very critical of the cuts in

[27:22] environmental programs that Republicans

[27:24] are proposing in this budget bill that

[27:26] you're dealing with here now. Are

[27:28] Republicans vulnerable on environmental

[27:29] issues in this election?

[27:31] Well, obviously we're concerned about

[27:33] the environment,

[27:34] but we're not uh

[27:36] we're not out trying to devastate the

[27:37] environment. This is 1996

[27:40] and President Clinton's getting an early

[27:41] start on

[27:42] on November. He's going to need it, but

[27:44] he's getting an early start.

[27:45] >> Senator,

[27:46] the cleanup at this site uh

[27:48] is now uh

[27:50] stopped.

[27:52] Uh we have uh run out of money.

[27:55] President Clinton had spent Monday in

[27:57] Wallington, New Jersey inspecting a

[27:59] toxic waste site. Cleanup of the site

[28:02] had begun under the EPA's Superfund

[28:04] program, but hasn't been completed. The

[28:07] president linked the delay in the

[28:08] cleanup to the policies of the

[28:10] Republican-led Congress. This budget

[28:12] impasse has been used by Congress

[28:16] and this crazy way of running the

[28:17] government by continuing resolution

[28:20] instead of a budget

[28:22] to slowly and quietly keep the EPA from

[28:24] doing its job. The EPA is now operating

[28:29] at about a

[28:30] 15% cut from its last year's budget.

[28:34] All that remains to be done is to finish

[28:37] the job of purging the soil of that site

[28:41] of the poisoned chemicals.

[28:44] I can't think of why we ought to

[28:46] tolerate this in Wallington or anywhere

[28:48] else in the country.

[28:50] But

[28:51] >> [applause]

[28:52] >> The president's visit to New Jersey

[28:54] wasn't officially a campaign stop, but

[28:56] it had all the appearances of one,

[28:58] according to Missouri Senator Kit Bond.

[29:01] Oh, that was a bell ringer.

[29:03] The political pundits and spinmeisters

[29:06] must have been what

[29:08] must have been rubbing their hands

[29:09] together in glee.

[29:10] Bond, chairman of the committee that

[29:12] handles EPA's funding, said it was the

[29:15] EPA's decision to stop the cleanup in

[29:17] New Jersey. We told EPA,

[29:20] "Go out and spend your money where

[29:21] there's a human health risk.

[29:25] You got more than enough money to do

[29:27] that.

[29:28] So either one of two things, Mr.

[29:30] President,

[29:31] either

[29:33] EPA decided

[29:36] that that Wallington, New Jersey site

[29:39] was not posing

[29:41] a risk to human health,

[29:45] which would have been a vitally

[29:47] important factor

[29:51] that reporters could ask the president

[29:53] about at his news conference.

[29:56] Or

[29:57] if there was a real risk to human health

[30:01] and EPA had staged the slowdown to give

[30:05] the president a political forum.

[30:09] With the two major presidential

[30:10] candidates leading from opposite ends of

[30:12] Pennsylvania Avenue, it's inevitable

[30:14] that the early focus of the campaign

[30:16] will be on Washington. But Mississippi's

[30:19] Trent Lott, the Senate majority whip,

[30:21] says he doesn't think things are at that

[30:23] point yet. I think it's a a little early

[30:25] yet. I don't think that we're in a the

[30:27] total presidential

[30:29] campaign mode yet.

[30:31] It was Lott who ran things in the Senate

[30:33] while Dole fought off challengers for

[30:35] the Republican presidential nomination.

[30:38] But now Dole can be back at his job

[30:40] almost full-time. And Lott says Dole can

[30:42] score political points there, too. You

[30:45] know, I still believe and I believe that

[30:47] Majority Leader Bob Dole believes that

[30:49] the best politics

[30:51] is to get things done for America.

[30:54] When you do the job, you do what's right

[30:55] for the country, there's plenty

[30:57] you know, political benefit to go around

[30:59] for everybody.

[31:00] And it appears Senator Dole is getting

[31:02] things done. Reportedly, he's just

[31:04] rounded up enough Republican votes to

[31:06] pass the line-item veto. That measure

[31:09] gives the president the power to veto

[31:11] individual parts of legislation while

[31:13] accepting the rest. The line-item veto

[31:16] is a major unfinished element in the

[31:18] House Republicans' contract with

[31:19] America. It had been bottled up in

[31:21] negotiations for more than a year until

[31:23] Dole intervened.

[31:26] The Senate this week also made progress

[31:28] toward approving a catch-all spending

[31:31] bill to fund the federal government's

[31:32] operations through September, the end of

[31:35] the fiscal year. The measure ended a

[31:37] long-standing impasse and came only

[31:40] after a majority of Republicans,

[31:42] including Dole, finally agreed to the

[31:44] president's and Senate Democrats'

[31:46] demands for more money for education. I

[31:48] mean, absolutely we need to pay the

[31:51] interest off on the debt, but you don't

[31:53] save the children of the next generation

[31:55] by savaging the children of this

[31:57] generation. And despite their charges

[31:59] the president was attempting to create a

[32:01] phony campaign issue out of the

[32:03] environment, Republicans apparently have

[32:05] agreed to add more money there, too.

[32:08] But increasing spending doesn't sit well

[32:10] with all Republicans, particularly those

[32:13] in the House. And if you don't fund

[32:14] these things, President Clinton says,

[32:16] we're going to close the government down

[32:18] and it'll be the Republicans' fault and

[32:20] they're extremists. Give me a break. But

[32:23] Trent Lott doesn't believe compromising

[32:25] with the president on spending will cost

[32:27] Dole Republican support. No, I don't

[32:29] think it'll come to that at all. I think

[32:31] it's important we stay in touch with

[32:33] each other

[32:34] across the capital and across the aisle.

[32:36] I think we need to listen to concerns of

[32:39] members that feel like, you know, it has

[32:41] already gone too too far. I frankly my

[32:44] own personal disposition leans much

[32:46] closer to what the House Republicans

[32:49] think about this omnibus spending bill.

[32:50] I think it is spends way too much.

[32:53] But

[32:54] it also involves leadership.

[32:57] Now, leadership can stand around and

[32:58] throw stones and nothing happen.

[33:00] Or you can get out there and lead and

[33:02] and Bob Dole

[33:04] has been willing to step step up to that

[33:06] task. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[33:10] Now, a look at the Pennsylvania Avenue

[33:11] face-off and other matters with Shields

[33:13] and Shigo. That's syndicated columnist

[33:15] Mark Shields and Wall Street Journal

[33:17] columnist Paul Shigo. Welcome. Thank

[33:20] you, Elizabeth. Paul, this is unique,

[33:21] isn't it, to have the Senate majority

[33:23] leader and the president in a campaign

[33:25] against each other? It absolutely is. I

[33:27] think it's the first time ever that the

[33:29] the Senate majority leader has been the

[33:31] nominee of a major party and the first

[33:32] time since Garfield that a leader of one

[33:34] of the two houses of Congress He was

[33:36] Speaker of the House more than 100 years

[33:39] ago. So, you really do have a

[33:42] face-off that's unusual and an awful lot

[33:44] of the back and forth and the agenda

[33:47] setting will be done here in Washington.

[33:49] >> And you figure that the campaign really

[33:51] begins now and in the next 4 months

[33:53] it'll all be We'll see it in the battles

[33:55] that they have or the cooperation that

[33:56] they have. Well, there are some people

[33:57] who are saying in fact that this

[33:58] election may be settled between now and

[34:01] and before the convention.

[34:03] >> You mean settled in however the

[34:04] legislative agenda comes out.

[34:06] >> gets the the high ground

[34:09] in this in this battle. Whoever sets the

[34:11] terms of debate, whether or not this

[34:15] election becomes a referendum on Bill

[34:17] Clinton's performance or whether it

[34:18] becomes a referendum on what the

[34:20] Republican Congress is doing. How that

[34:22] debate is framed may determine who wins

[34:24] this election. It's interesting because

[34:26] they need each other. Neither one wants

[34:28] to be seen as as the blocker of or you

[34:30] know, as the cause of gridlock. They

[34:32] need each other and yet they're also

[34:33] opponents. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

[34:36] other other Senate majority leaders

[34:37] obviously have tried to use the position

[34:39] in the past. Howard Baker, Republican,

[34:40] tried to run for president from majority

[34:42] leader, didn't do work. Lyndon Johnson

[34:45] came back and I think that's the closest

[34:47] parallel in my lifetime. After the

[34:49] Democrats nominated a ticket in 1960,

[34:51] Johnson as vice president they came back

[34:53] for rump session of the Senate with an

[34:55] ambitious agenda which went nowhere.

[34:58] >> [laughter]

[34:58] >> They quickly got out and started the

[35:00] campaign especially it was done on Labor

[35:02] Day instead. I I think I think this is a

[35:04] different one. Bob Dole is obviously a

[35:06] lot more comfortable in the Senate than

[35:09] he is on the campaign trail. He is not a

[35:10] natural candidate. It's He's not

[35:15] And this this is where he likes it. It

[35:18] was an interesting editorial that the

[35:20] Chicago Tribune endorsed Bob Dole and

[35:22] they said that he has stood against the

[35:24] worst excesses of the Clinton

[35:25] administration and against the worst

[35:27] instincts of the Republican

[35:29] revolutionaries. And it's interesting

[35:31] Dole has a triangulation strategy. And

[35:33] that is to show that he is the effective

[35:36] get-things-done guy

[35:38] who can push things through and keep in

[35:41] check maybe some of the more

[35:44] extraordinary impulses of those in his

[35:46] own ranks in Congress. And I think he

[35:48] will have more cooperation, Elizabeth,

[35:50] than

[35:51] would have been expected a year ago

[35:52] because all of a sudden every Republican

[35:54] member of the House his fate, fortune,

[35:56] and future is tied to how Bob Dole does.

[35:58] Do you think it's a good strategy for

[35:59] him though to be playing from these

[36:01] strengths? Well, I think there's a lot

[36:02] of danger in it for Bob Dole. I agree

[36:03] with Mark that he's going to get a lot

[36:04] of cooperation from the House side

[36:06] because the House discovered last year

[36:07] that you cannot govern from Congress. I

[36:10] mean, they tried. They took offered

[36:11] historic legislation, risky votes on

[36:13] Medicare and a variety of other things.

[36:15] What did it get them?

[36:16] Zippo. So, they've got to now they would

[36:18] like to get some progress and what they

[36:20] need But but the danger for Bob Dole

[36:23] is

[36:24] that the Senate Democrats are not going

[36:27] to play lay down here and decide to let

[36:29] him pass. They're going to block as much

[36:30] as they possibly can.

[36:32] And and and if and if

[36:34] Bob Dole and Bill Clinton agree on

[36:36] everything the voters might just decide,

[36:39] hey, why not keep these guys in their in

[36:41] their current positions? The best

[36:42] argument that Bob Dole has is that real

[36:45] change

[36:46] is not going to happen in Washington as

[36:48] long as Bill Clinton sits in the White

[36:50] House. He has to make the vetoes that

[36:52] the president has made and that the

[36:54] president is likely to make if the

[36:55] Republicans handle their legislative

[36:57] strategy well. He has to make those

[36:59] vetoes the issue.

[37:01] Well, I I I think that's the question.

[37:03] They they have to decide, the

[37:04] Republicans do, whether they're going to

[37:05] try and pass a program or they're just

[37:07] going to send vetoable items to the

[37:10] president to veto.

[37:10] >> the Republican freshmen? I mean, if Dole

[37:12] decides he wants to lead in this way or

[37:14] he clearly has decided he wants to lead

[37:16] in this way, will they follow him?

[37:17] There's a lot of disarray in the House

[37:18] among Republicans, isn't there?

[37:20] >> There is a lot of disarray. I mean, the

[37:21] the speaker has been wounded. I don't

[37:23] know if it's mortally wounded, but he's

[37:24] certainly been wounded badly by his best

[37:26] friend.

[37:27] >> He has He's really almost disappeared.

[37:29] And the they Dole and

[37:31] and and Speaker Gingrich in the last

[37:32] sort of 2 months of 1995 became the good

[37:35] cop, bad cop,

[37:37] which worked to Dole's advantage, but

[37:38] didn't work to the speaker's advantage.

[37:39] So,

[37:40] the House Republicans are a wild card. I

[37:42] I don't think they're going

[37:43] [clears throat] to be nearly as

[37:43] homogeneous or unified as they were

[37:46] earlier in 1995. Each one now has to

[37:48] start thinking about whether he or she

[37:50] wants to return. Paul, what issues do

[37:53] you think that Dole will emphasize?

[37:55] Well, I think you're going to see him

[37:57] emphasize the issues a lot of the issues

[37:59] that Bill Clinton has already vetoed. I

[38:01] think welfare reform is going to be a

[38:03] central issue. There's a debate now in

[38:05] the Dole campaign, should we even send

[38:07] another welfare bill to Bill Clinton?

[38:09] Give him another chance to sign

[38:10] something and take credit for it or

[38:12] should we use this issue? You know, the

[38:13] president's got ads up now saying he's

[38:15] for welfare reform. Well, he's vetoed

[38:17] the the welfare reform twice and he's

[38:19] against even the

[38:20] the governors' compromise that all 50

[38:22] governors have have agreed to. That's

[38:24] going to be a big issue. Tax cuts is

[38:26] going to be a big issue. The size and

[38:28] the scope of government in all of its

[38:30] parameters are going to be issues. But I

[38:32] think instead of wrapping everything

[38:34] into this one big bill that they did

[38:37] last time and the president vetoed

[38:39] without suffering any political price,

[38:41] they're going to try to do rifle shots.

[38:43] They're going to try to take individual

[38:44] legislation and say

[38:46] >> So, there won't be one big budget bill.

[38:48] >> might even notice for a change.

[38:49] >> [laughter]

[38:50] >> Wouldn't that be nice for the

[38:51] Republicans? That voters would notice

[38:52] the specifics. Right. Yeah, we'll say,

[38:55] all right, welfare reform, let's take

[38:56] this up and show that in fact he is

[38:58] vetoing it even though he claims to be

[39:00] supporting it. And try to

[39:03] really define the president through what

[39:05] he's against. Well, do you think bottom

[39:07] line, do each of you think that we're

[39:08] just going to see gridlock or that there

[39:10] will be a lot of cooperation then? I

[39:12] mean, it's in both of their interest to

[39:13] have each. That's right. No, I I I think

[39:16] Bill Bill Clinton obviously is not going

[39:17] to

[39:18] sit idly by and and sign legislation

[39:21] which he feels is not in his interest or

[39:23] the country's interest or the party's

[39:25] interest or whatever. He He is not and

[39:27] he has a a gift, a flair,

[39:29] and a and a penchant really for framing

[39:32] issues very advantageously, which I

[39:34] think he proved in 1995. And so, he's

[39:38] he's not going to be a just a passive

[39:39] player here.

[39:41] But I I I think that Bob Dole has to

[39:43] show both leadership and effectiveness.

[39:45] That's going to be his theme

[39:48] in in 1996. And that's where he gets

[39:50] higher marks than does the president.

[39:52] The president is seen as more caring and

[39:54] more concerned and

[39:57] and perhaps more in tune to what's going

[39:59] on in the nation. But Bob Dole has a

[40:01] reputation among voters of being shown

[40:03] more leadership and more effectiveness

[40:04] than than Bill Clinton. So he has to

[40:07] somehow deliver on that pledge. Yeah,

[40:08] but he doesn't want to be a leader and

[40:09] effective in the Congress. He wants to

[40:11] get to the other side of the street and

[40:12] and he there's a danger and the

[40:14] Democrats are already saying Bob Dole's

[40:16] a great legislative mechanic. Wonderful

[40:19] guy who if you want something out of a

[40:20] subcommittee.

[40:22] We need somebody of vision up on He's

[40:23] got to worry you know if he's chasing

[40:25] John Chafee

[40:27] the liberal Republican for that 60th

[40:28] vote to break the filibuster. If he

[40:30] spends all his time on that, he's going

[40:31] to lose. Okay, let's move on to Forbes.

[40:33] We talked about this a little the other

[40:35] night. What is the impact now of Forbes

[40:37] pulling out?

[40:39] Yeah, I I don't think it has any impact

[40:41] on the race at all. The question is what

[40:43] will be his legacy.

[40:45] I think a couple of things were revealed

[40:48] about the Forbes candidacy. First of

[40:49] all, his message of hope, growth and

[40:51] opportunity

[40:52] got a lot of support in the press and

[40:53] very editorial

[40:55] boards. But it really didn't strike much

[40:57] of a

[40:58] spark with voters Elizabeth. I think

[41:00] that he will be remembered more

[41:03] in fact for his attacks upon Bob Dole. I

[41:06] mean Bob Dole in in the months of and

[41:08] especially in Iowa and New Hampshire and

[41:10] the surrounding media markets there

[41:11] plummeted because of the negative

[41:13] attacks upon him. And

[41:15] you know I think when you're talking

[41:16] about spending 30 to 45 million dollars,

[41:18] you would now be joined at the hip to

[41:20] Phil Gramm as people who spent between

[41:22] them 70 million dollars

[41:24] and it kind of proves that maybe money

[41:26] isn't everything in politics. But

[41:29] I I really don't think that there's

[41:31] going to be a lasting economic legacy.

[41:33] I think that the supply side school was

[41:35] really exposed as sort of politically

[41:37] limited and

[41:39] overwhelmingly elitist. Do you agree

[41:41] with that? Couldn't disagree more.

[41:43] Across the board. Totally.

[41:45] I think I think the Forbes contribution

[41:48] was was by and large

[41:50] healthy for the Republican party. He

[41:52] ever since the Bush recession if you

[41:54] will, the

[41:56] economic agenda has been dominated by

[41:57] Democrats. President got elected in part

[41:59] on it.

[42:00] The Republicans had wanted to talk about

[42:02] only about the size of government. I

[42:03] think what Forbes did and showed that

[42:05] there was fairly substantial support

[42:07] within the party

[42:09] for his message of putting the economy

[42:12] back into the debate on the Republican

[42:14] side. Whatever happened to the growth

[42:15] agenda back in the 80s, the Republicans

[42:17] controlled that agenda. And he's saying

[42:20] Republicans can't win in November unless

[42:22] they have that. I think that's a a very

[42:23] good message for Bob Dole

[42:26] one that he can take to the voters in

[42:28] November and take on the

[42:30] underperformance of the Clinton economy.

[42:32] Well, Paul and Mark, that's all the time

[42:33] we have. Thanks.

[42:45] Now a dispute about how much wilderness

[42:47] is enough. Next week the Senate is

[42:49] expected to vote on legislation that

[42:51] would determine how much of Utah's land

[42:53] should be given the official designation

[42:55] of wilderness and preserved from

[42:57] development. Tom Bearden reports.

[42:59] The view is simply astonishing.

[43:02] A thousand foot deep canyon sliced

[43:04] through rocks so red it's almost

[43:06] luminous.

[43:08] People from all over the world come to

[43:09] Southern Utah to gaze in wonder at what

[43:12] the Colorado River has done over the

[43:13] millennia.

[43:15] Some of them are equally astonished when

[43:17] they notice there is also a large potash

[43:19] mine in the bottom

[43:20] right on the edge of Canyonlands

[43:22] National Park.

[43:23] In some ways it's a vision of what two

[43:25] opposing viewpoints in Utah would like

[43:27] to see.

[43:28] Land preserved in a pristine state

[43:31] versus developing some of it to extract

[43:33] natural resources.

[43:35] The Utah congressional delegation's bill

[43:37] would designate 1.8 million acres.

[43:40] A bill supported by environmentalists

[43:41] would designate more than three times as

[43:43] much, 5.7 million acres.

[43:47] Terry Tempest Williams is a Salt Lake

[43:48] City author and environmentalist. She

[43:51] argues earnestly for the larger

[43:52] proposal. This is a landscape of the

[43:54] imagination.

[43:56] These are canyon walls that rise upward

[43:58] like praying hands.

[44:00] This is a landscape

[44:02] that reminds us of a bedrock democracy.

[44:06] It is what has always held us as

[44:09] Americans. And to let these lands go in

[44:12] the name of expediency, in the name of

[44:15] economic growth

[44:17] when our very health and souls are at

[44:19] stake

[44:21] would be a great mistake.

[44:23] Philip Bimstein also supports the 5.7

[44:26] million acre proposal. Not for spiritual

[44:28] but for economic reasons.

[44:30] He's the mayor of Springdale, Utah, a

[44:32] small resort town near Zion National

[44:34] Park. Springdale is scrambling to build

[44:37] more motel rooms.

[44:38] I think that wilderness designation is

[44:40] crucial to the economic future of of

[44:43] Utah in general. And because Springdale

[44:45] is a town that's situated right at the

[44:48] edge of the wilderness, is surrounded on

[44:50] all four sides by it and we're trying to

[44:52] cultivate an image as a destination

[44:54] resort. Wilderness designation enhances

[44:58] our quality of life for the residents

[45:00] that live here and it also I think adds

[45:02] to the

[45:03] the future of our economy which is

[45:05] already booming as a result of it. But

[45:08] opponents of the environmentalist bill

[45:10] like Louise Liston say it's nonsense to

[45:12] think adding more wilderness would help

[45:14] the economy.

[45:15] A county commissioner in Garfield County

[45:17] Liston says the real problem is the

[45:19] federal government already controls 98%

[45:22] of the land. In order for us to take

[45:25] care of the services that 3 million

[45:27] visitors demand

[45:29] we have to do that on a tax base that

[45:34] 4,000 people give us on less than 2% of

[45:37] the land being private property. The

[45:39] tourists come in

[45:41] and they leave their garbage

[45:43] they get lost, they get hurt

[45:47] they require law enforcement and we we

[45:49] have to provide all of those services to

[45:51] them on a very constrained limited

[45:54] budget. Opponents of the 5.7 million

[45:57] acre bill say it would also utterly

[45:59] foreclose their economic future because

[46:02] wilderness designation would prevent the

[46:03] development of the area's rich natural

[46:05] resources and the jobs that go with it.

[46:09] Liston says the ridge behind her is a

[46:11] good example of what would be lost. It's

[46:13] called 50 Mile Mountain, the northern

[46:15] edge of an enormous plateau that extends

[46:17] into northern Arizona. It's part of the

[46:20] area environmentalists want to see

[46:21] become wilderness.

[46:23] If it does, it would scuttle plans to

[46:25] build an underground coal mine. Roger

[46:27] Holland is a city councilman in the

[46:29] nearby town of Kanab. He thinks the mine

[46:31] would be much more valuable to his town

[46:33] than wilderness.

[46:35] It would be incredibly good for our

[46:36] economy. It would mean

[46:38] 900 jobs, good paying jobs, almost twice

[46:42] what the average job

[46:44] pay scale is in the state of Utah. You

[46:46] have to have some type of an industry

[46:48] for the dads to work at. So you can have

[46:50] the moms and the daughters and the sons

[46:52] run the service stations and motels and

[46:53] restaurants.

[46:55] Many ranchers who have grazed cattle on

[46:57] the public lands for generations say

[46:58] they would also suffer even though they

[47:00] would still be allowed to graze in any

[47:02] new wilderness areas.

[47:07] Hardy Red says the reality is that

[47:09] today's cowboys drive pickups and tow

[47:11] their horses long distances to reach the

[47:14] rangeland.

[47:15] Wilderness areas prohibit motorized

[47:17] vehicles making continued grazing there

[47:19] impractical. My experience is that

[47:22] people who run livestock in wilderness

[47:23] areas say yeah, they allow us to run the

[47:25] livestock but they restrict us so much,

[47:28] they make it uneconomic or make it very

[47:30] very difficult to like go in and repair

[47:32] a water system or haul salt in or

[47:35] maintain fences or things like that.

[47:39] Ken Slight runs a guest ranch right near

[47:41] one of Red's ranches near Moab, Utah. He

[47:43] thinks those who oppose the

[47:44] environmentalist bill are losing sight

[47:46] of the big picture. A former cattleman

[47:48] himself, he now guides tourists on raft

[47:50] trips through Canyonlands National Park.

[47:53] This country belongs to American people.

[47:55] It doesn't belong to the Hardy Reds or

[47:57] the other ranchers.

[47:59] It belongs to American people.

[48:01] They are they are using

[48:03] the the

[48:05] the utility of it. They're using it.

[48:07] We can't afford them to to ruin it.

[48:10] I feel like we've got a lot of land here

[48:12] but when you really look at it most of

[48:15] it is despoiled already.

[48:17] We've only got a few

[48:19] pockets of wilderness left, true

[48:20] wilderness.

[48:22] And I think we need to protect it. But

[48:24] Red says creating wilderness can do more

[48:26] harm than good and points to Canyonlands

[48:28] National Park as an example.

[48:31] In 1964

[48:33] 4,000 people visited this area.

[48:36] Now that it's designated a park, last

[48:38] year 400,000 people visited the area.

[48:43] They have a much greater impact on the

[48:45] land.

[48:46] In fact, there is some argument that

[48:48] designating parks or designating

[48:50] wilderness

[48:51] has more adverse impact on the land than

[48:54] leaving it alone and leaving it

[48:56] undefined

[48:57] and and not attracting people to it.

[49:00] People are coming with or without

[49:02] designation of wilderness.

[49:04] We've seen that already in the national

[49:05] parks.

[49:07] So designation of wilderness is not

[49:08] going to bring any more

[49:10] The two sides can't even agree on what

[49:12] wilderness is. The environmentalists say

[49:14] their 5.7 million acre proposal meets

[49:17] the guidelines established in the

[49:18] Wilderness Act. Pristine, untrammeled by

[49:21] man, no structures or roads. Louise

[49:24] Liston says much of the land is far from

[49:26] pristine and accuses environmentalists

[49:28] of inflating the amount that qualifies

[49:30] and thereby perverting the Wilderness

[49:32] Act. Wilderness is now being proposed by

[49:35] exception. And that means that it

[49:37] doesn't have to fit the criteria. And

[49:40] that's what the 5.7 million acre

[49:43] proposal is. We have

[49:45] hundreds of miles of roads, we have

[49:48] fences, we have water tanks, we have

[49:50] cabins. I mean, you know, they don't fit

[49:52] wilderness criteria. Utah Congressman

[49:54] Jim Hansen says his 1.8 million acre

[49:57] bill would designate true wilderness and

[49:59] says it's backed up by a Bureau of Land

[50:01] Management study. The BLM spent uh

[50:04] 10 million dollars in 15 years and they

[50:06] came up with a figure finally of 1.95.

[50:10] The legislation that we've introduced

[50:12] pretty well tracks that at 1.8.

[50:14] Supported by the delegation, the

[50:16] governor, both houses of the state

[50:18] legislature, all of the county

[50:20] commissioners but one and every elected

[50:21] official in the state of Utah. But Jim

[50:23] Baca, who headed the BLM at the time and

[50:25] is now a consultant working under a

[50:27] Sierra Club grant, says the whole thing

[50:29] was political. I think they tried to

[50:31] veil it as a study that was done like

[50:33] any other study, but in fact of all the

[50:35] wilderness studies that have ever been

[50:36] done or probably ever will be done, it

[50:38] was the most political.

[50:40] Uh the staff at BLM, including the

[50:42] person who ran the study for the BLM at

[50:44] that time uh in their wilderness unit,

[50:46] said that it was political and that

[50:47] there was forced to do a lot of things

[50:49] that were unscientific, that weren't

[50:51] supported by the facts.

[50:53] Baca says it's Hansen who's trying to

[50:54] pervert the act because his bill

[50:56] contains so-called hard release

[50:58] language. An unprecedented provision

[51:00] requiring the BLM to release all the

[51:02] land adjacent to the new wilderness for

[51:04] immediate development, foreclosing

[51:06] future wilderness expansion.

[51:08] Hard release means that if you look at

[51:10] that acreage that was not considered for

[51:13] wilderness, you can never consider it

[51:15] for wilderness again. You cannot protect

[51:16] it for wilderness property uh um

[51:19] uh values. You can't do anything to it.

[51:20] It's open to development and you can

[51:22] never look at it again. I've always

[51:24] thought it was unconstitutional. I don't

[51:26] know how you can tie the hands of future

[51:27] congresses.

[51:28] Terry Tempest Williams hopes Congress

[51:30] will look at more than just jobs in

[51:32] reaching a decision. Wilderness is like

[51:34] a combustible log. Say the word and it

[51:36] ignites.

[51:37] It's too easy to say it's us versus

[51:40] them, it's environmentalists versus

[51:41] ranchers. I think the issue that is

[51:43] really at hand is do we have the

[51:45] restraint? Do we have the generosity of

[51:48] spirit? Do we have the vision to grant

[51:50] these lands

[51:52] their own sovereignty, to extend our

[51:54] notion of community to include all life

[51:56] forms, plants, animals, rocks, rivers,

[51:58] and human beings. Hardy Redd has another

[52:00] worry, that the years of arguing over

[52:03] dinner tables and in public meetings

[52:04] will have a permanent effect on the

[52:06] adversaries.

[52:07] One of the virtues and one of the

[52:08] beauties of the West is not just the

[52:10] scenery.

[52:12] It's the good feeling that there are

[52:13] among people, the amiability, the kind

[52:15] of the more easy

[52:17] easy-going tolerance that I sense in the

[52:20] West.

[52:21] One of the things the wilderness debate

[52:23] has done

[52:24] is

[52:25] is chipped away at those good feelings

[52:29] and divided us into us and them.

[52:32] That's a tragedy.

[52:33] While Congress considers both bills,

[52:35] Utah is bracing for another onslaught of

[52:38] tourists this summer.

[52:40] Environmentalists say they want to make

[52:41] sure that what draws them here isn't

[52:43] destroyed. The people who live near

[52:45] those attractions say they want that,

[52:46] too.

[52:47] But they also want to be able to make a

[52:48] living.

[52:50] Ultimately, Congress will have to decide

[52:52] how much wilderness

[52:53] is enough.

[53:01] Again, the major stories of this Friday,

[53:03] China announced a new round of military

[53:05] exercises next week off the coast of

[53:07] Taiwan. Live-fire war games will target

[53:10] areas close to the island. In Bosnia, an

[53:12] intruder shot and wounded a US Army

[53:15] sentry guarding the American base camp

[53:17] near Tuzla. The GI is hospitalized in

[53:19] stable condition. And the Israeli

[53:22] military lifted travel restrictions on

[53:24] Palestinians within the West Bank, but

[53:26] they are still barred from entering

[53:28] Israel because of the recent wave of

[53:30] suicide bombings. We'll be back Monday

[53:32] night. I'm Elizabeth Farnsworth. Thank

[53:34] you and good night.

[53:38] Major funding [music] for the NewsHour

[53:39] with Jim Lehrer has been provided by the

[53:41] Archer Daniels Midland Company, ADM,

[53:44] supermarket to the world.

[53:46] Bye.