The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-08-14 - 2 of 2
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:00] century has had to confront the fateful
[0:02] decision to send Americans into combat.
[0:06] I do not relish this prospect, but
[0:09] neither do I shrink from it. I know we
[0:13] must have the resolve constantly to
[0:15] deter sometimes to fight and always.
[0:19] That is why Al Gore and I supported the
[0:23] decision to use force to get Saddam
[0:25] Hussein out of Kuwait and why we stand
[0:28] united with President Bush and sending
[0:30] the message to Saddam as he flouts the
[0:32] UN's resolutions. Tow the line or face
[0:36] the music.
[0:38] Whatever the threat or opportunity,
[0:40] national security is and must remain a
[0:42] bipartisan task. As a nations, we have
[0:46] many opinions, but only one foreign
[0:49] policy. Yet, presidential elections are,
[0:52] as I said at the beginning, about
[0:53] choices. And the choices the American
[0:56] people must make this year revolve
[0:58] around the kind of presidential
[1:00] leadership we want in a fundamentally
[1:03] new era. In this election, Mr. Bush will
[1:06] seek to establish his leadership by
[1:08] emphasizing the time he's spent, the
[1:10] cause he's placed, the trips he's taken
[1:12] in the conduct of foreign policy. But
[1:15] the measure of leadership in this new
[1:17] era is not the conversation held, or the
[1:20] miles traveled. It is the new realities
[1:23] recognized, the crises averted, the
[1:25] opportunities seized.
[1:34] In the next 82 days, I challenge him to
[1:37] set his vision of our nation's purpose
[1:40] in a dramatically new era against the
[1:42] one I am presenting in this campaign.
[1:46] For in the final analysis, we must have
[1:48] a president ready to think a new in a
[1:52] world that is new. It is time for
[1:55] leadership that is strategic, vigorous,
[1:57] and grounded in our democratic values,
[2:00] not reactive, and tied to a status quo
[2:03] that cannot prevail. In 1960, John
[2:06] Kennedy told America that there was a
[2:07] new world to be one. Today, there is
[2:11] again a new world to be one. My vision
[2:14] is of a world united in peaceful
[2:16] commerce. A world in which nations
[2:18] compete more in economic and less in
[2:20] military terms. A world of dynamic
[2:23] market generated growth that narrows the
[2:25] gap between rich and poor. A world
[2:28] increasingly engaged in democracy,
[2:31] tolerant of diversity and respectful of
[2:33] human rights, united against the common
[2:36] enemies of mankind, war, poverty,
[2:38] ignorance, disease, and environmental
[2:40] destruction. a world we can be proud to
[2:43] pass on to our children and their
[2:45] children with the knowledge that we rose
[2:47] to new responsibilities in our world in
[2:50] our age. I am running for president
[2:52] because I believe that a strong America,
[2:56] strong in arms, strong in value, strong
[2:58] in wealth, strong in will remains the
[3:00] world's best hope for turning that
[3:02] vision into a reality. Thank you very
[3:05] much.
[3:09] Governor Clinton speaking yesterday in
[3:11] Los Angeles. We now discuss that speech
[3:13] with two foreign policy experts
[3:14] representing the competing presidential
[3:16] campaigns. Condisa Rice was special
[3:19] assistant for national security affairs
[3:21] to President Bush the first two and a
[3:23] half years of his administration. She's
[3:25] now a professor of political science at
[3:27] Stanford and also a California delegate
[3:29] to next week's Republican convention in
[3:31] Houston. She joins us from the Houston
[3:33] Astrodome. Michael Mandelbomb is a
[3:36] foreign policy adviser to Governor
[3:37] Clinton. He's a professor of political
[3:39] science at the John's Hopkins School for
[3:41] Advanced International Studies in
[3:43] Washington and director of the project
[3:45] on East West Relations at the Council on
[3:48] Foreign Relations. He joins us from Los
[3:50] Angeles. Mr. Mandelbomb, what do you
[3:53] think the Let's just separate two things
[3:55] in this speeches. Clearly, the governor
[3:57] is saying two things. One is that the
[3:59] Bush leadership is not as great as it's
[4:02] claimed to be, and the other is that he
[4:04] Clinton has a better vision for the
[4:06] future. Let's discuss first the attack
[4:08] on the um critique of the Bush
[4:10] leadership. What do you think that
[4:12] critique has achieved?
[4:14] >> Well, I don't know what the politics
[4:16] are, but it seems to me that it is the
[4:19] right and duty of the opposition party
[4:22] to point out the flaws in the
[4:24] incumbent's presentation of himself. As
[4:26] Governor Clinton said, uh Mr. Bush's
[4:29] effort to claim credit for the collapse
[4:31] of communism is like the rooster
[4:34] claiming credit for the dawn. and does a
[4:36] disservice to the brave men and women
[4:39] led by the Boris Yeltsons and Botlav
[4:42] Havls and Leoensas who were the foot
[4:45] soldiers in the war that ultimately
[4:47] overthrew communist tyranny. But that's
[4:50] important for the future as well. Mr.
[4:52] Bush did not provide the kind of moral
[4:55] support and world leadership for the
[4:57] forces of freedom that he should have
[4:59] during the period when communism was
[5:01] collapsing and in the postcold war era.
[5:04] It is even more important to gear our
[5:07] policy, as Governor Clinton said
[5:09] yesterday, to the support of
[5:11] democracies. They need technical
[5:13] support. They need moral support. They
[5:15] need economic support. They're not
[5:18] getting that kind of support from us.
[5:19] And one reason is one of the principal
[5:22] themes of Governor Clinton's speech and
[5:24] one of the principal themes of his
[5:26] foreign policy. We have got to do
[5:28] something about our economy here at home
[5:31] so that we can project our power and
[5:33] influence onto the world stage. We won't
[5:36] be strong abroad unless we're strong at
[5:39] home. And now because of our anemic
[5:41] economy, because of the worst economic
[5:44] performance in 60 years, just at a time
[5:46] when the world needs American leadership
[5:48] more than ever, we are unable to provide
[5:51] it. Miss Rice, uh, back to the point of
[5:54] Clinton's critique of the president's
[5:56] leadership. Do you think Clinton has
[5:58] revealed flaws in the president's
[6:00] leadership in foreign affairs?
[6:02] >> I think what Bill Clinton has revealed
[6:05] is that, uh, the Democratic view of the
[6:07] last four years, uh, which is that, as
[6:10] the Democratic platform says, it has
[6:11] been a nightmare, uh, simply doesn't
[6:13] accord with the real world. The fact of
[6:15] the matter is there are free countries
[6:18] all over East Central Europe. Now the
[6:20] Soviet Union has broken up peacefully.
[6:23] Germany is reunified. A whole host of
[6:27] democratic forces have won. And all that
[6:29] the Democrats can talk about uh is some
[6:32] set of flaws in a policy that helped to
[6:35] lead to this. I just want to make one
[6:37] thing very clear. Uh this idea that
[6:39] somehow President Bush uh wishes to
[6:42] diminish the contributions of Le Binsa
[6:45] and Boris Yeltson and uh the other foot
[6:47] soldiers of democracy is purely
[6:49] ludicrous. The point of view is that
[6:52] those people on the front lines were in
[6:55] fact the important element in this but
[6:58] that it was in conjunction with American
[7:00] and Western leadership and indeed
[7:02] American strength uh that they were able
[7:06] uh to triumph. No one wishes to diminish
[7:08] uh the role of those great leaders.
[7:10] >> Mr. Mandelbum Clinton says Bush should
[7:13] have embraced Yeltson sooner, should not
[7:16] have discouraged Ukrainian independence.
[7:19] Just to take two examples of the
[7:20] critique, what harm flowed from the
[7:23] president's caution in those two uh
[7:25] situations?
[7:26] >> Fortunately, ultimately no harm came of
[7:29] it because of the courage of Boris
[7:31] Yeltson and the public pressure from the
[7:34] American people. But if you look back at
[7:36] Mr. Bush's response to the coup against
[7:39] Boris Yeltson and primarily against uh
[7:42] Mikail Gorbachov uh in August of 1991,
[7:46] you'll see that his first response was
[7:48] to say that Gennady Yanayv, the vice
[7:51] president who was the front man for the
[7:53] the forces of darkness, the old order
[7:55] that wished to push aside Mikail
[7:57] Gorbachov and murder Boris Yelen, the
[8:00] only free freely elected president in
[8:02] Russian history. Mr. Mr. Bush's first
[8:05] response was that Mr. Yanayv was a
[8:08] reformer. It was only after the people
[8:10] of Moscow resisted this coup that the
[8:13] president was persuaded to change his
[8:15] mind. Now, Mr. Yanayv uh is a communist
[8:18] hack. He's a man who, as I say, was
[8:20] fronting for the worst elements in the
[8:22] Soviet Union, trying to turn back the
[8:24] clock on democracy and restore the old
[8:26] order. If Mr. Yanayv is a reformer, I
[8:29] wonder what Mr. Mr. Bush's definition of
[8:31] a thug is. So you're saying that the the
[8:34] points that Yeltson not embracing
[8:36] Yeltson sooner, staying with Gorbachev
[8:38] as long as he did and going and
[8:40] discouraging Ukrainian independence that
[8:42] in the end and the way things have
[8:43] turned out, they really didn't matter
[8:45] very much. is that
[8:46] >> they didn't matter in overthrowing
[8:49] communism. But his timidity, his lack of
[8:51] leadership, and above all the terrible
[8:54] condition of the American economy, which
[8:56] makes us unable to lead a western effort
[8:59] to give economic support to the
[9:01] Democrats and reformers in formerly
[9:03] communist Europe, does imperil the great
[9:06] democratic promise of their revolution.
[9:08] The Russian reformers, the Russian
[9:10] Democrats, Mr. Yeltson are in serious
[9:12] trouble today in part because they are
[9:15] not getting the assistance from the West
[9:17] that we should be providing. And we are
[9:19] not providing that assistance because
[9:21] we're broke. We cannot get a consensus
[9:23] in favor of this aid despite Governor
[9:25] Clinton's leadership on the subject
[9:27] because we have under Mr. Bush the worst
[9:30] economic performance in 60 years. And
[9:33] that has crippled American leadership in
[9:35] the world just when the world really
[9:37] needs it. Uh, Miss Rice, that's a point
[9:39] made by quite a lot of commentators
[9:40] these days. What do you what do you how
[9:42] do you respond to that?
[9:43] >> Well, I think first we have to respond
[9:45] to the rewriting of the history of the
[9:46] August coup. The fact of the matter is,
[9:49] as no less an authority than Boris
[9:51] Yelson himself has said, President Bush
[9:53] was the first to recognize uh what the
[9:56] Russian people were doing. He was the
[9:57] one when many other world leaders were
[10:00] hesitating who said coups don't always
[10:03] succeed. He was the one who called Boris
[10:06] Yelson. He was, by the way, one of the
[10:08] first people that Boris Yelson and
[10:10] Gorbachov called after it was over.
[10:12] Clearly, they thought his role was very
[10:14] instrumental. I'd also like to respond
[10:16] to the notion that somehow the president
[10:18] didn't respond to Yelson in time. Uh
[10:21] there's another interpretation to uh the
[10:24] argument that we did no harm, and that
[10:25] is that we did some good uh by the
[10:28] timing of the response to Yeltson. I'd
[10:31] really like to hear Governor Clinton
[10:32] answer the question because it's always
[10:34] a matter of a utopian world in which you
[10:36] don't have to make hard choices with
[10:38] Bill Clinton. I'd like him to tell us
[10:40] when he would have pulled support from
[10:42] Gorbachev. Would he have done it when
[10:44] the Soviets held a veto on German
[10:47] unification? Would he have done it when
[10:49] the Soviets held the veto in the
[10:51] Security Council against the coalition
[10:53] uh against Saddam Hussein? Would he have
[10:55] done it when Boris Yeltson himself was
[10:57] calling for the return of Gorbachov uh
[11:00] after the August coup? No. I think that
[11:03] uh the Democrats either because they've
[11:05] never they haven't practiced policy in a
[11:07] long time uh or because they simply
[11:09] don't understand uh the conditions of
[11:11] these democratic forces uh don't seem to
[11:14] understand that sometimes you have to
[11:16] make hard choices about timing and uh
[11:18] that the choices about timing in the
[11:20] case of the Soviet Union were just
[11:22] right. Finally, the notion that we have
[11:25] not aided uh Soviet Russian democracy
[11:28] and uh the democracies of the former
[11:30] Soviet Union is simply not right.
[11:32] There's a $ 24 billion package, an
[11:35] IMFled package, but one to which all of
[11:38] the major uh countries of the G7 are
[11:41] going to contribute waiting to help uh
[11:44] the Russians and the other former states
[11:46] of the Soviet Union reform their
[11:48] economies. But we were under a lot of
[11:50] pressure at one time to dump a lot of
[11:52] money on an unreformed Soviet economy.
[11:55] That would have repeated the mistakes
[11:57] that we made with Poland in the early
[11:59] '7s when we dumped money on an
[12:01] unreformed economy and the polls ended
[12:04] up $40 billion in debt and no better
[12:06] off. Timing is everything in
[12:09] international politics and in following
[12:11] the reforms of the former Soviet Union.
[12:14] It is critical that Western aid be tied
[12:16] to the stage of uh reform, not just
[12:20] throw money at the problem.
[12:21] >> Uh Mr. Mandelbomb, turning to the
[12:23] future, how is Clinton's vision of the
[12:26] new era clearer and more realistic than
[12:29] Mr. Bush's?
[12:31] >> Well, I don't I'm not aware that Mr.
[12:32] Bush has presented a vision of the new
[12:34] era. Perhaps he'll do that at Houston.
[12:36] But Governor Clinton's vision as
[12:38] presented in Los Angeles and in two
[12:41] major foreign policy addresses before
[12:43] that has three important components.
[12:45] First, we cannot be strong abroad unless
[12:48] we are strong at home unless we do
[12:50] something to revive economic growth. Our
[12:52] influence in the world, our capacity to
[12:54] shape events will continue to fade.
[12:57] Second, with the end of the Cold War and
[12:59] the collapse of communism, we need a new
[13:01] focus for American foreign policy. And
[13:04] that focus in Governor Clinton's view
[13:06] ought to be democracy. We ought to be
[13:08] willing to say loud and clear with no
[13:10] ambiguity that we stand for freedom. And
[13:13] and not only has Governor Clinton said
[13:16] that hypothetically and generally, he
[13:18] said it specifically. There is a
[13:20] communist dictatorship in power in
[13:22] Beijing. Mr. Bush embraces it. Mr.
[13:24] Clinton has has distanced himself from
[13:27] it and has criticized it. Third,
[13:29] Governor Clinton has said and went into
[13:31] some detail in his Los Angeles address
[13:34] that in the wake of the Cold War, we
[13:36] need to reconfigure our military forces.
[13:39] The Bush policy is to keep in place, to
[13:42] keep in being a smaller version of the
[13:44] forces that we fielded to try to stop a
[13:47] Soviet attack launched from East Germany
[13:50] against our Western European allies.
[13:53] Well, the Soviet Union doesn't exist.
[13:55] The Warsaw Pack doesn't exist. Uh,
[13:58] Eastern Europe is liberated. There is no
[14:00] East Germany. That threat has
[14:01] evaporated. As Governor Clinton said, we
[14:04] face other threats. Saddam Hussein's
[14:06] around the world. Terrorism, nuclear
[14:08] proliferation, and we need new military
[14:11] forces to cope with those threats. Those
[14:14] forces will largely be based in the
[14:16] United States. And therefore, they have
[14:17] to be mobile and they have to be smart.
[14:20] and he's made specific proposals for
[14:22] what we need to do to get those kinds of
[14:24] forces to meet the challenge of the
[14:26] postcold war world.
[14:27] >> Miss Rice, how does uh President Bush's
[14:30] vision differ from that?
[14:31] >> Well, the interesting thing is and let
[14:33] me start in reverse order on defense uh
[14:36] what Bill Clinton is describing uh is in
[14:38] fact the American volunteer army as it
[14:41] exists today. It is the most mobile
[14:43] force in the world. It is the most
[14:44] maneuverable force in the world. It is
[14:46] the technologically most sophisticated
[14:48] force in the world. And indeed it was uh
[14:51] created to fight a war in Europe. But
[14:53] let's remember that it fought a war
[14:55] against Saddam Hussein very
[14:57] successfully. So perhaps this notion
[14:59] that there's one kind of army to fight
[15:01] wars against Saddam Hussein and another
[15:04] kind of army uh that we now have is uh
[15:07] we better look at that a little bit more
[15:09] closely. Secondly, on uh the economic
[15:12] side, I think that uh the governor's
[15:14] speech uh tended to expose some either
[15:17] misunderstanding of international trade
[15:20] uh or perhaps it's a misunderstanding.
[15:22] There's a comment uh that we have to be
[15:24] strong at home and then we have to
[15:26] pursue markets abroad. There is no
[15:28] strategy for linking those two. He talks
[15:31] about free trade. He talks about uh free
[15:33] markets. But it is the president that
[15:35] has created the largest single
[15:37] integrated market in the world in the
[15:40] North American free trade zone. Uh that
[15:42] by the way is um an initiative that
[15:45] began early in the Bush administration.
[15:47] Uh Secretary Baker talked about doing
[15:49] that in other places in Asia, possibly
[15:52] even uh with the newly marketizing
[15:55] states of Eastern Europe. And Governor
[15:57] Clinton said something about uh our not
[15:59] being able to deliver in the GAT because
[16:01] of our weakness. We haven't delivered in
[16:03] the gat yet because the president has
[16:06] been unwilling uh to to undergo and to
[16:10] take on French subsidies. He's taken on
[16:12] French subsidies. French farmers are the
[16:15] problem uh in the GAT. Uh not American
[16:17] weakness.
[16:18] >> All right. Well, we've used up our time.
[16:21] We could obviously go on a great deal
[16:22] longer. Mr. Mandelbomb and Ms. Rice,
[16:24] thank you both for joining us. Judy,
[16:27] >> still ahead on the NewsHour, politics
[16:29] with Gurgen and Shields and an essay
[16:31] about Los Angeles.
[16:41] It's Friday and that means it is time
[16:43] for political analysis with our team of
[16:46] Gurgen and Shields. That's David Gergen,
[16:48] editor at large at US News and World
[16:50] Report and syndicated columnist Mark
[16:52] Shields, who's in Houston at the
[16:54] Astrodome. Uh let's start out with you,
[16:56] Mark. Uh you've been listening to some
[16:58] of this discussion about Bill Clinton's
[17:00] foreign policy. Can he really help
[17:02] himself talking about foreign policy and
[17:05] defense policy a great deal during this
[17:07] campaign? I think it's a it's an attempt
[17:09] and rather a bold and interesting
[17:11] attempt on Clinton's part at a time when
[17:14] the Bush Quail campaign is at an
[17:16] all-time low and seems to be in a state
[17:19] of certainly flux if not disarray to try
[17:22] and uh use that opportunity to shore up
[17:26] what is a real weakness and uh the
[17:29] governor of Arkansas whoever the
[17:30] governor of any state whether it's the
[17:32] governor of New York has very limited
[17:34] credentials in foreign policy or defense
[17:36] policy and this because of the primary
[17:39] season as well and the charges about
[17:41] against Bill Clinton because of draft
[17:43] evasion during the Vietnam War is a
[17:45] particularly dicey area for him. But I I
[17:47] think it's rather bold on his part to to
[17:49] address it to try and meet it frontally
[17:51] and really to catch the Republicans when
[17:53] very few people with the exception of
[17:55] Dr. Rice are there to rebut him.
[17:57] >> Well, do do you think he can score any
[17:59] points at on any aspect of of foreign or
[18:03] def or defense policy?
[18:06] Mark,
[18:06] >> I'm I'm sorry, Judy. Oh,
[18:08] >> I I lost you. Pardon me.
[18:09] >> That's all right. Uh, no.
[18:10] >> You think he can score points on foreign
[18:12] policy?
[18:12] >> Yeah. Do you think he can score any
[18:14] points? You were saying it's a weakness
[18:15] for him.
[18:16] >> I think I think the argument that uh
[18:18] that he and Michael Mandelbomb make is
[18:21] uh is an interesting one. I think it's a
[18:23] I I think it's appealing that America is
[18:26] only as strong internationally as it is
[18:28] at home. And if America is not strong
[18:30] and vibrant and robust economically and
[18:33] our people are not optimistic and
[18:35] outward-looking, then we will not be as
[18:37] effective and influential in the world.
[18:38] I think that's a I think that's a strong
[18:40] argument. It's an argument that was made
[18:42] by Democrats in the Congress. Uh the
[18:44] last time in 1988, uh it didn't seem to
[18:47] catch then, but I think now given the
[18:50] the bleak and dismal economic picture in
[18:52] the country, it has a a greater
[18:54] resonance in the in the nation.
[18:56] >> What do you think, David? Can the
[18:57] Democrats score on foreign policy in
[18:58] 1992?
[18:59] >> Not very much. And I don't think that
[19:00] the the Clinton speech yesterday was
[19:03] anything more than a footnote in this
[19:04] campaign. What it has helped us to
[19:06] understand is that both candidates
[19:08] >> just spent 12 minutes.
[19:09] >> Well, it was putting it on the air. It's
[19:11] important to see it and I think that to
[19:13] hear the debate, but I think in terms of
[19:14] its political impact, whether it will
[19:16] move voters or not, I think it's a
[19:18] footnote. I think it it has helped us to
[19:20] see too that both candidates have very
[19:22] effective advocates in Candi Rice and
[19:24] Michael Manabound. Uh but G I think in
[19:26] this situation what a candidate is doing
[19:28] I don't I disagree with Mark. I don't
[19:29] think this is a bold attempt by by Bill
[19:31] Clinton. I think it's a defensive
[19:32] effort. I think it's essentially one to
[19:34] give himself some protective coding in
[19:36] an area where he is vulnerable but he
[19:38] does not have the experience and to
[19:39] establish some credentials. I I don't
[19:41] think yesterday's speech was
[19:42] particularly effective. I think he did
[19:44] give some earlier speeches which were
[19:45] helpful. I thought his move on Bosnia a
[19:47] few weeks ago was very helpful. Remember
[19:48] that's when he said the president ought
[19:50] to seek authority from the United
[19:52] Nations to use force. the White House
[19:54] came out and criticized him as being
[19:55] reckless and 10 days later the White
[19:56] House embraced that very policy. So I
[19:58] think on that issue he did well. But I
[20:00] think this is essentially to get
[20:01] protective coding.
[20:02] >> While we're still on the Democrats,
[20:03] Mark, uh is this week been a been a sort
[20:06] of neither up or down for them that the
[20:08] polls are showing that they're still
[20:09] what 25 points ahead of President Bush.
[20:12] >> I I think it's been a down week for the
[20:14] Republicans, Judy, and with a two-way
[20:16] race as opposed to a three-way race. It
[20:18] just five weeks ago, it's now it's a
[20:20] seessaw. If if candidate A goes down,
[20:23] then candidate B prospers and C Bill
[20:25] Clinton is candidate B. And he's doing
[20:27] very well because George Bush is doing
[20:29] very well. George Bush had a tough week.
[20:31] Uh he had a major announcement about uh
[20:35] peace and progress with with Prime
[20:37] Minister Rabbine at his home at Kennet
[20:39] Bunkport. And he stepped on his own
[20:41] story uh with the the his own story was
[20:46] stepped on I guess by allegations about
[20:48] >> Hey Mark, I want to get to the
[20:49] Republicans in just a second. Excuse me.
[20:51] Just a second. I was really asking about
[20:52] the Democrats. Do you think they helped
[20:54] themselves this week or was it kind of a
[20:55] wash for them or what?
[20:56] >> Well, anytime you're 25 points ahead
[20:58] going in the other guys convention,
[20:59] Judy, that we expected to drop, they
[21:02] didn't. Uh I based upon my conversations
[21:05] with the Republicans in Houston and
[21:07] elsewhere, uh it's been a good week for
[21:09] the Democrats.
[21:11] >> David,
[21:11] >> I think it's been a reasonable week for
[21:12] the Democrats. There are there is a
[21:14] trickle now of some voters back to the
[21:16] the Republicans, but it's not a flood. I
[21:18] mean, you know, a month ago after the
[21:19] convention in a Washington Post ABC
[21:21] poll, Clinton was ahead by 28 points. In
[21:23] the most recent poll, he's now ahead by
[21:25] 26. You know, Bush gained two points in
[21:27] a month. At this rate, he would win.
[21:28] Bush would win if the election were held
[21:30] in 1994. Uh, but, you know, he he needs
[21:33] to move a little faster than this. I
[21:34] think he'll get more he'll show more
[21:36] progress in the next 10 days. Those next
[21:37] 10 days are really crucial for the
[21:38] Republicans.
[21:39] >> All right. And speaking of the
[21:40] Republicans, we want to talk about them
[21:42] now. In their rush to diffuse the
[21:44] politically explosive abortion issue
[21:46] before the convention, they sent out
[21:48] some mixed signals this week. In an
[21:50] interview on NBC, the president was
[21:52] asked what he would do if one of his
[21:54] granddaughters came to him and said she
[21:56] wanted an abortion. He said he would try
[21:59] to talk her out of it, but in the end,
[22:00] the choice would be hers to make and he
[22:02] would support her. That contrasted with
[22:04] a much tougher statement the president
[22:06] delivered last week to the Knights of
[22:08] Columbus in New York City. And there's a
[22:11] national tragedy. More than a half a
[22:13] million abortions in this country every
[22:15] year. And we know
[22:19] we know there's got to be a better way.
[22:22] Human alternatives like adoptions and
[22:24] abstinence.
[22:27] Seven times I have ignored the polls
[22:32] and acted on what I believe is
[22:34] fundamental princ fundamental principle
[22:37] and vetoed uh abortion legislation. And
[22:40] I promise you again today, no matter the
[22:43] political price, they tell me in this
[22:46] year that it's enormous. I am going to
[22:48] do what I think is right. I am going to
[22:50] stand on my conscience and let my
[22:53] conscience be my guide when it comes to
[22:56] matters of life.
[22:59] >> That was last week. Yesterday in an
[23:02] interview with US News and World Report,
[23:04] Time and Newsweek magazines, Barbara
[23:06] Bush weighed in on the anti-abortion
[23:08] plank in the 1992 Republican platform to
[23:11] quote her, "I'm not being outspoken pro
[23:14] or con on abortion. I'm saying abortion
[23:17] should not be in there, either pro or
[23:19] con." Question. So issues of abortion or
[23:22] homosexuality, those kinds of issues are
[23:24] issues of personal preference, Mrs.
[23:26] Bush. Indeed, they are. question are
[23:30] issues that a family should decide
[23:33] and a government doesn't. Mrs. Bush, I
[23:36] don't think a family should decide. I
[23:38] think that's it's a personal choice is
[23:40] what I'm saying. Personal thing. The
[23:43] personal thing should be left out of, in
[23:45] my opinion, out of platforms and
[23:47] conventions. Later in another round of
[23:50] interviews, a reporter said that her
[23:52] comments were being interpreted in some
[23:54] quarters as pro-abortion rights. Mrs.
[23:57] Bush paused and her reply was a single
[24:00] word. Really,
[24:02] David Gurgen? What's going on here?
[24:05] >> I think this is very striking. Barbara
[24:07] Bush has been asked that question
[24:09] hundreds of times as first lady and
[24:11] before and she's always said, "I'm not
[24:14] getting into it." And now she's waited
[24:16] into the middle of it. Also this week,
[24:18] she she criticized just in the last
[24:20] couple of days the Republican National
[24:21] Committee chairman for attacking Hillary
[24:23] Clinton. She said he shouldn't have done
[24:25] that. She stepped into it again. She
[24:27] does not do that. I don't know why
[24:28] Barbara Bush keeps her own counsel on
[24:30] this. It it suggests to me that she's
[24:33] frustrated with the campaign. She's
[24:35] angry about some of the things that are
[24:36] happening. She she wants the campaign to
[24:38] get back on track so her husband can be
[24:40] reelected. Also got to appreciate in the
[24:42] situation that Barbara Bush is the icon
[24:44] of this campaign on everybody. You know,
[24:47] she's the most popular person in on the
[24:49] Bush side by far. Her popularity is
[24:51] twice that of the presidents right now.
[24:52] She has enormous stature. She's going to
[24:54] be speaking at the convention and I
[24:56] think she's trying to tell the boys
[24:57] around the president, "Shape up, fellas.
[25:00] I don't want to lose this and you're in
[25:01] the process of losing this for my
[25:02] husband and I don't like it." I I I'm
[25:03] I'm impressed with it. She's stepping up
[25:05] this way.
[25:06] >> Well, Mark, is there something more
[25:07] behind it? Bill Clinton said today,
[25:08] "Well, you know, these people, these
[25:11] Republicans are trying to have it both
[25:12] ways on abortion."
[25:14] >> Well, I think there is. Uh David's
[25:16] right. Barbara Bush has been asked this
[25:17] question hundreds of times. She's always
[25:19] deathly sidestepped it in the past,
[25:21] Judy. uh the fact that she says
[25:23] something in the summer of 1992, the day
[25:26] after the Republican party has
[25:27] reaffirmed its abortion position uh an
[25:31] abortion position which interestingly
[25:32] enough has not prevented their winning
[25:34] three consecutive landslide victories in
[25:36] the past, but they're obviously nervous
[25:38] about it in 1992. She picks that day to
[25:41] sort of send a wink and a nudge of a
[25:43] message that you do uh if you are
[25:45] worried about the pro-life position of
[25:47] the party, you have a friend in court,
[25:49] you have an ally on the presidential
[25:51] pillow. And I think uh that was the
[25:53] message to me. It was a it was a
[25:55] definite political tactical move.
[25:56] >> Is it a smart move, David?
[25:58] >> I think it's a smart move on her part
[26:00] and I think people will welcome the fact
[26:01] that she's speaking out. But do you are
[26:03] you saying were you saying a moment ago
[26:05] this is Barbara Bush speaking on her own
[26:07] or is there something going is there
[26:08] some orchestration involved?
[26:10] >> Well, let me just say this. There's
[26:11] nobody in this campaign that I know who
[26:14] can go to Barbara Bush and get her to do
[26:15] anything. This is a woman who speaks her
[26:16] own mind and I I I think it was I think
[26:19] she made the decision to do it, but I do
[26:21] not believe that a campaign group went
[26:23] and got her to do anything. That's not
[26:24] the way this campaign or any campaign
[26:26] treats Barbara Bush. She's a very very
[26:28] strong woman in her own right. I I do
[26:30] think Judy that that she may be
[26:33] concerned that in these platform
[26:36] hearings the party drifted over and
[26:39] began to embrace a lot of socially
[26:41] conservative positions that will
[26:42] energize the conservative base and and
[26:44] by golly they sure need to do that
[26:46] energize their own base because it's
[26:47] been a very uh unenthusiastic group of
[26:49] people but in doing that they have
[26:51] positioned her husband in the party in a
[26:53] in a way that will make it more
[26:54] difficult to win the election rather
[26:56] than less difficult. the more you
[26:57] embrace these positions over on the
[26:59] right on the social side, the more the
[27:01] more difficult it is to get to 51% in
[27:02] terms of winning the election.
[27:03] >> You agree with that, Mark?
[27:04] >> Well, I agree with it, Judy. The
[27:06] Republicans have won the presidency
[27:09] essentially running on three separate
[27:11] values that all work together. The
[27:13] Republicans were the anti-ax party in
[27:15] the past and the party of economic
[27:16] growth. They are no longer the party of
[27:18] economic growth in 1992 when George Bush
[27:20] broke his word on taxes. the part
[27:22] Republicans with a party of strength
[27:24] improved by their support of national
[27:25] defense and for an aggressive policy
[27:27] against the Soviet expansionism that
[27:30] that is no longer there that that that
[27:32] test of of America's strength uh in
[27:35] terms of defense expenditures or or an
[27:37] aggressive foreign policy. Finally, it
[27:39] was on traditional values and this is uh
[27:42] this is what where the Republicans have
[27:44] stood in the past. I do think that the
[27:46] leadership of both parties are quite
[27:48] nervous about abortion as an issue. I
[27:51] think the Democrats are to the left of
[27:53] America on abortion. Uh and the
[27:55] Republicans are to the right. Americans
[27:57] are are generally uh troubled by the
[27:59] issue. They are basically pro-choice,
[28:02] but they're anti-abortion. Dr. Sam
[28:04] Popkin, the uh California political
[28:07] scientist, was an adviser to Bill
[28:08] Clinton, put it uh at one point he said,
[28:11] "Americans want to put abortion in a
[28:13] brown wrapper. Uh they don't want it
[28:15] readily available. They don't want it
[28:16] promoted. They don't want it advertised,
[28:17] but they don't want to say it shouldn't
[28:18] be available." And I think that's why
[28:20] Bill Clinton says I'm pro-choice, which
[28:22] means I'm doesn't mean I'm proabortion,
[28:24] and why Barbara Bush is sending these
[28:26] little tactical smoke signals.
[28:28] >> But to add to that, Judy, uh, I I think
[28:30] that the what happened here is that Dan
[28:32] Quayle has been right. The the Democrats
[28:34] imposed a litmus test on abortion. The
[28:36] Republicans had an opportunity to say,
[28:37] "Look, we are against abortion, but
[28:39] we're also a party that tolerates views
[28:43] bigger than
[28:43] >> our tents bigger than that." They had
[28:45] that opportunity, and they and they
[28:46] decided not to take it. And I think that
[28:47] by my likes that was a mistake. The
[28:49] other mistake though was to let abortion
[28:51] and the social issues dominate the
[28:53] economic issues. The way they're going
[28:54] to win this election is prove there that
[28:55] once again the party of economic growth.
[28:57] That's that's you're talking about the
[28:58] Republicans.
[28:58] >> Yes. The Republicans and they need to
[29:00] move on the economic growth issue.
[29:02] That's the big test of this acceptance
[29:03] address right now for the president and
[29:05] they're not ready right now to make to
[29:07] hit the ball out of the park on the
[29:09] acceptance address.
[29:09] >> Is that your impression, Mark? You're
[29:11] out there in Houston. Well, it's it's
[29:12] tough to run an economic growth unless
[29:14] you're going to inject the American
[29:15] people with amnesia uh as a a national
[29:18] virus in the next 48 hours. I mean, you
[29:20] can't you got to go with what works for
[29:21] you. And economic growth is not
[29:23] something that people associate with
[29:25] with George Bush. David is right. The
[29:27] Democrats had one litmus test at New
[29:29] York and that was abortion. Uh here's
[29:31] Bill Clinton nominated as a as a c pro
[29:33] capital punishment uh pro right to work
[29:36] governor which nobody ever mentioned.
[29:38] And so I I think that it's interesting
[29:40] that we are in in an argument at the
[29:42] Republican convention about social
[29:44] issues. George Bush, that isn't his task
[29:47] here. His task here is he has to put in
[29:49] context and definition his first term,
[29:52] what it meant, and why the second term
[29:53] is going to be better, and he better
[29:55] define that future.
[29:56] >> That's right.
[29:56] >> To go from the macro to the micro, some
[29:59] would say. David, what what is the
[30:01] lasting the legacy if any of this story
[30:04] earlier this week, the New York Post
[30:05] story about the president allegedly had
[30:07] some romantic involvement with with a
[30:09] woman who was formerly an aid of his? Is
[30:11] that Are we going to hear any more about
[30:12] that? Now,
[30:13] >> I I I'm not sure. Well, you never know
[30:15] when these things are going to pop up
[30:16] and what what tabloid is going to drag
[30:18] us into these again, drag the mainstream
[30:20] press in. Uh, you know, if we avoided it
[30:23] in the press, we'd have be better off.
[30:24] But any event, that they I I think that
[30:26] it did do some damage to the president.
[30:29] Not a lot, but I think it damaged in
[30:30] this sense. It it this was a very very
[30:33] good issue about trust. Can you trust
[30:34] Bill Clinton before? What is his private
[30:36] life like? To a degree this has helped
[30:38] to neutralize it. I think the
[30:39] Republicans think it's extraordinarily
[30:40] unfair. Mrs. Bush has been outspoken in
[30:42] our views of this week. They feel
[30:44] there's been no evidence there to
[30:45] support these these allegations. And yet
[30:47] the president was persistently asked
[30:49] about it. And I but but nonetheless, the
[30:51] political impact I think to be to be
[30:53] objective about I think the political
[30:54] impact is that it's blunted the issue
[30:56] somewhat. Republicans no longer have
[30:58] quite the edge they had before.
[31:00] >> Level the playing field, as they say.
[31:01] Mark, is that what's happening?
[31:02] >> I I think David's right, Judy, that it
[31:05] it makes it a little bit tougher for the
[31:06] Republicans to to run under the banner
[31:09] of family values and family virtue uh
[31:11] when charges like this are about. But I
[31:13] I don't think the Clinton campaign wants
[31:16] the focus of the press or the public
[31:18] recycled and redirected into personal
[31:21] behavior.
[31:22] >> All right, Mark, we've got less than 30
[31:24] seconds. What's the weather like in
[31:25] Houston?
[31:26] >> Uh, I'd say uh as I I think Philip
[31:29] Sheridan once said about another place,
[31:31] if I owned Hell and Houston, I'd rent
[31:34] out hell. I'd rent out Houston and live
[31:36] in hell. I mean, it is really hot.
[31:38] Everybody's wonderful. They're lovely
[31:39] and hospitable and they're ready for the
[31:41] convention, but it's a hot place.
[31:43] >> Thanks for the preview, Mark. And we'll
[31:44] see you next week, Mark and David. Thank
[31:47] you both. That was great.
[31:58] We close tonight with an essay. Richard
[32:00] Rodriguez, an editor for the Pacific
[32:02] News Service, thinks a great American
[32:04] city may be returning to its roots.
[32:09] >> This summer, something seems different
[32:10] about Los Angeles. About the city that
[32:13] has given America so many of our dreams.
[32:16] A few months after the rides of spring,
[32:18] you can still see Mexican boys along
[32:20] Sunset Boulevard selling maps to the
[32:22] homes of the stars.
[32:24] But Los Angeles seems now a city without
[32:26] a sense of itself, without a true myth.
[32:31] For generations, this city was famous
[32:33] for its internal immigrants. The myth of
[32:36] LA was constructed by Americans from the
[32:38] Midwest, by Okeis, by the sons and
[32:41] daughters of the East Coast.
[32:43] Los Angeles became famous for its Iowa
[32:45] Day picnics and its most influential
[32:47] dreamers were Jews from Brooklyn. Sons
[32:50] of immigrants who imagined movies,
[32:52] dreams 40t tall.
[32:56] In the American myth of Los Angeles, you
[32:58] can become someone new in LA. Dye your
[33:00] hair, get a divorce, change your
[33:02] father's name, become a movie star. The
[33:05] American myth of LA was constructed on
[33:07] the belief that you could be free of
[33:08] memory. Here was the great second chance
[33:12] American city. In Los Angeles, you could
[33:14] have your own lawn, your own car. There
[33:17] was space enough and sunshine enough to
[33:20] sustain the ambition.
[33:22] The city was childish. In LA,
[33:25] grandmothers rode roller skates. East
[33:27] Coast grandmothers didn't even speak
[33:29] English.
[33:30] The Los Angeles that amused the rest of
[33:32] the country was laidback, far out. the
[33:35] city on the coast, which is to say at
[33:37] the edge of possibility.
[33:40] What is dying in Los Angeles is some
[33:42] dream of American youth. The dream of a
[33:45] softer winter. The optimism that kept
[33:48] the child of immigrant parents in
[33:49] Cleveland up late at night imagining a
[33:52] palm tree villa or a long white car.
[33:55] All summer, people have been tense. Dark
[33:58] voices have predicted new violence.
[34:01] People say parking downtown has never
[34:02] been easier. Fewer people must be
[34:05] driving downtown
[34:07] on Rodeo Drive. In the fancy stores,
[34:09] shopkeepers worry that the Japanese
[34:10] tourists are staying away.
[34:18] Yet, the dream factories pretend that
[34:20] nothing has changed. This summer on Fox
[34:23] television, the same TV producer who
[34:25] gave us Beverly Hills 90210 gave America
[34:29] a new program called Melrose Place,
[34:32] which purports to be about an apartment
[34:34] house in West Hollywood. The occupants
[34:36] are all young. Everyone is white, of
[34:39] course, except for a black aerobics
[34:41] instructor. And in this version of Los
[34:43] Angeles, no one has an accent.
[34:48] But in truth, Los Angeles is an old
[34:50] Mexican city.
[34:52] This city was founded in 18th century
[34:54] Spanish in honor of the Virgin Mary,
[34:56] Queen of the Angels, Rea de Los Angeles.
[35:00] With typical disdain for the past,
[35:02] people here simply refer to LA.
[35:06] Yet Mexicans, hundreds of thousands and
[35:09] millions have lived in the city.
[35:11] Mexicans did not define Los Angeles for
[35:13] America. However, they did not define
[35:16] the myth.
[35:18] It was not until the late 1970s that
[35:20] people in LA began to notice a change.
[35:23] Then the city seemed no longer so
[35:25] accentless or so American. The city
[35:28] began crowding with immigrants from Asia
[35:30] and Latin America, and there were
[35:32] billboards and neon signs and other
[35:34] languages and Syrian names in the phone
[35:37] books. And the cab driver was from
[35:39] Russia.
[35:41] In the 1980s, city officials tried
[35:43] optimistically to declare Los Angeles
[35:46] the Pacific Rim capital. But in those
[35:48] same years, people in town started
[35:50] complaining. The city was getting too
[35:53] crowded. Traffic was bad. People wanted
[35:56] out of LA. And now in the '90s, there
[35:59] had been the fires of spring.
[36:03] There are no simple black and white
[36:05] solutions to riots where the largest
[36:06] number of persons arrested on the night
[36:09] of black rage were Hispanic.
[36:11] Riots in which Koreanowned businesses
[36:13] were targets. This summer, the theme at
[36:16] city hall is rebuild LA. In parts of the
[36:20] city, one hears grumbling about the fact
[36:21] that the black mayor has turned to a
[36:23] white man to rebuild LA. But I like what
[36:26] a counselor at the Korean Youth Center
[36:28] told me the other day. Rebuild LA.
[36:30] Rebuild LA. What an idea. People at city
[36:33] hall should be talking about building
[36:35] LA.
[36:37] Along the boardwalk in Venice Beach,
[36:39] people still dress up on weekends to do
[36:41] their own thing. And you can see
[36:43] grandmothers on roller skates. But even
[36:46] on the sunniest day, you sense that this
[36:48] comic version of LA is dated. This
[36:51] summer, you get the sense that the old
[36:53] American dream of the city is dying.
[36:56] Something even older is reasserting
[36:57] itself.
[36:59] Los Angeles is becoming more apparently
[37:01] a Mexican city again. At the same time,
[37:04] the city is becoming what it never was
[37:06] in the blonde sitcoms and MGM musicals.
[37:09] Los Angeles is becoming an immigrant
[37:11] city.
[37:12] A new myth of the city will be created
[37:14] not by Americans arriving from Kansas so
[37:17] much as by immigrants arriving from
[37:19] Korea.
[37:21] I'm Richard Rodriguez.
[37:25] Again,
[37:30] the main stories of this Friday, the
[37:32] European community held another round of
[37:34] Yugoslav peace talks, but the meeting
[37:36] ended after the Bosnian government
[37:38] refused to participate. NATO officials
[37:41] backed away from the immediate use of
[37:43] force in Bosnia. The alliance said it
[37:45] needed at least 10 days to consider the
[37:47] range of options. And this evening,
[37:50] White House spokesman Marlon Fitzwwater
[37:52] announced that the United States will
[37:53] soon begin emergency airlifts of food to
[37:56] Somalia. The action is aimed at
[37:58] alleviating widespread starvation in the
[38:01] East African nation. Good night, Robin.
[38:04] >> Good night, Judy. A reminder that next
[38:06] week the NewsHour team will be in
[38:07] Houston, site of the Republican
[38:09] convention. After the NewsHour itself,
[38:11] our special PBS NBC joint coverage will
[38:14] begin on most of these PBS stations at
[38:17] 8:00 p.m. Eastern time Monday. I'm
[38:19] Robert McNeel. Have a nice weekend. Good
[38:21] night.
[38:22] >> Funding for the McNeel.
[38:24] >> One parent claimed his child had become
[38:26] nervous with a black teacher. The school
[38:29] principal asked the student his
[38:30] feelings.
[38:31] >> Glenn came in and the principal said,
[38:33] "Glenn, your father brought you here and
[38:36] he says that you're nervous when you go
[38:38] home." You know, I'm not nervous. Said
[38:40] Mr. Ford is my teacher and I like Mr.
[38:42] Ford.
[38:42] >> He taught first in elementary schools,
[38:44] then at Roosevelt High School. He was
[38:47] named teacher of the year. Former
[38:49] students placed a plaque in his honor at
[38:51] Martin Luther King Center. A lot can
[38:54] happen in a man's life.
[38:56] >> I have always felt uh that I could do
[38:58] whatever I made up my mind to do.
[39:01] >> He knew that as a young man looking at
[39:03] his successful older brother and
[39:05] sisters. And there I was with hardly
[39:07] anything. And I just
[39:16] I guess I'm too cinnamon. But
[39:18] nevertheless, I just felt that well,
[39:22] hell, I just got to do something. And I
[39:24] I kept hanging in there and doing the
[39:26] very best I could. And I made a lot of
[39:28] mistakes.
[39:29] >> It is all part of the book of his life.
[39:32] >> I don't know. I I have no regrets for
[39:34] the kind of life I have lived because I
[39:38] try not whole malice toward anybody and
[39:41] I just do the best I can.
[39:43] >> Ray Summers at large.
[39:46] >> A lot of history there. This month, Mr.
[39:48] Ford celebrates his 86th birthday.
[39:51] >> 86 years is a long time. For those of
[39:53] you who'd like to just look 5 days into
[39:55] the future, Heidi is going to allow us
[39:57] to do that right now.
[39:58] >> And we are going to look for some cooler
[39:59] weather starting for us tomorrow. As
[40:01] early as tomorrow. In fact, we'll be in
[40:02] the 80s tomorrow, 70s by Wednesday, and
[40:05] maybe even some showers Thursday and
[40:07] Friday. That's going to sound and feel
[40:09] very, very good. The clouds are just
[40:10] going to feel good after all the
[40:12] sunshine.
[40:12] >> Time since it's rained here. Well, we
[40:13] had the one day a couple weeks ago,
[40:15] >> right? But, uh, it'll feel really nice
[40:16] just to get a little cooler. We need
[40:18] some measurable rain. Join us tonight at
[40:20] 11.