CBS News - Iraq War - 2003-03-21 - 12:57 a.m. (E)
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:00] Part of our continuing coverage of
[0:03] America at War. From CBS News
[0:06] headquarters in New York, here is Dan
[0:09] Rabbit. The headlines at this hour. Iraq
[0:12] is under attack from the land, sea, and
[0:15] air tonight. Tanks of the US Army's
[0:17] Third Infantry Division rolled across
[0:19] the border. They're now in southern
[0:21] Iraq, meeting only light resistant. CBS
[0:24] News correspondent Scott P tells us they
[0:26] are possibly two or three days drive
[0:29] from Baghdad. US cruise missiles hit
[0:32] targets in Baghdad for a second day
[0:34] blasting among other things the main
[0:35] presidential palace. Saddam Hussein or
[0:38] possibly someone who looks like him
[0:40] showed up on Iraqi TV again today. It's
[0:43] widely believed to be Saddam himself. US
[0:45] intelligence officials however insist
[0:47] that Saddam was in the bunker hit a
[0:50] couple of nights ago in the opening air
[0:52] strike of the war. But these unnamed
[0:54] officials say they don't know if he was
[0:56] killed or injured or escaped. They keep
[0:59] asking that question. On the ground, US
[1:01] and British units crossed the border
[1:03] from Kuwait undercover of intense air
[1:05] and artillery of barges. Huge explosions
[1:09] lit the sky from the outskirts of the
[1:10] southern port city of Basra. Allied
[1:12] troops were not shelling that city
[1:14] itself, where sentiment is strong
[1:16] against Saddam Hussein, but they were
[1:18] shelling the Iraqi defenses around
[1:20] Basra. Behind the lines in Kuwait,
[1:22] Allied forces suffered their first
[1:24] casualties. When a US Marine helicopter
[1:26] crashed, killing four Americans and 12
[1:28] British troops on board. Cause of the
[1:30] crash unknown at the moment. CBS News
[1:33] correspondent John Roberts was with the
[1:35] US-led forces as they began their
[1:37] assault into Iraq. He joins us tonight
[1:40] live from inside Iraq with the US
[1:42] Marines. John.
[1:46] Uh Dan, we are indeed inside southern
[1:48] Iraq and we just started moving again
[1:50] after a brief pause. Uh if you can
[1:52] believe it out here in the middle of the
[1:53] barren Iraqi desert, there was a bit of
[1:55] a traffic jam. You have thousands of
[1:57] Marine vehicles all all funneling into
[2:00] to this area and sometimes they they
[2:02] tend to get in each other's way. Uh I
[2:04] just also wanted to to pass along that
[2:06] there was a little bit of concern not
[2:08] too long ago. one of the so-called fox
[2:10] vehicles. These are the vehicles that uh
[2:13] that go out looking for chemical and
[2:14] biological weapons, nuclear biological
[2:16] chemical monitoring uh vehicles. Uh was
[2:20] monitoring and repeat only monitoring
[2:22] for possible nerve agent. Again,
[2:24] repeating that only monitoring for a
[2:27] possible nerve agent. Uh they reported
[2:29] back a short time ago that they had
[2:31] found nothing. Now, it it is interesting
[2:33] to note too that with the Scud missiles
[2:35] that Saddam Hussein's forces fired at
[2:38] Kuwait City yesterday and uh some of the
[2:40] other fire that is has been uh shot
[2:42] across the border, none of it appears to
[2:45] be of a chemical or a biological nature
[2:47] at at uh at this point. Uh we're just
[2:49] making our way through uh one of the
[2:51] many lanes here uh in the southern Iraqi
[2:53] desert. And if I could, I'd like to just
[2:55] kind of show you the type of conditions
[2:57] that the troops are uh are dealing with
[2:59] here. Take a look out the front of our
[3:01] vehicle. Here's a camera at the front of
[3:02] our vehicle. The choking dust of this
[3:05] desert that the sand is a consistency
[3:08] almost like talcum powder and uh and you
[3:10] can see that it just completely
[3:12] obliterates your your your line of sight
[3:14] and it makes driving very very
[3:16] difficult. Uh Kirk Spitzer, who is our
[3:18] our able driver there, who you can see
[3:20] right in front of me, did a tremendous
[3:21] job uh getting us up to the border last
[3:23] night and uh doing another great job
[3:25] today uh driving in this choking dust.
[3:28] At at one point last night, uh, we we we
[3:30] thought that we we had fallen off of the
[3:32] main column, but we managed, Kirk
[3:34] managed to get us right back on. Uh,
[3:36] producer Randall Joyce here as well in
[3:37] the in the front seat here as we switch
[3:40] to our our internal cameras. And, uh, if
[3:43] you want to take a look at what's
[3:44] happening at the back. Now, again, the
[3:46] the the dust is sort of choking this.
[3:48] We'll clean this off as the day goes on,
[3:49] but there's the rest of the column
[3:50] that's that's coming behind us. So, uh,
[3:53] back inside the vehicle now, Dan, uh,
[3:54] we're just driving through the Iraqi
[3:56] desert. Uh, destination known but not
[3:59] reportable at this point, but we'll stay
[4:00] with you as the Marines, the first
[4:02] Marine Division makes its way into
[4:03] southern Iraq. Dan
[4:05] >> John, what kind of vehicle, if we can
[4:07] even call it that, are you bouncing
[4:09] around in there?
[4:13] >> Well, Dan, we we like to call it the
[4:15] secret squirrel. Uh, but it's uh it's a
[4:18] uh a marvel of technology that's uh able
[4:21] to transmit live as we uh as we roar
[4:24] through the desert uh at times up to uh
[4:26] to 50 mph. Uh and uh we we've got these
[4:30] cameras mounted inside and outside. It
[4:32] also has a live capability uh when we're
[4:35] stationary uh so that if we're uh in in
[4:38] let's say a a fueling re uh a fuel
[4:42] refueling stop or uh or a water supply
[4:45] stop or something like that, we are we
[4:46] are able to uh to go up and uh and
[4:48] broadcast live as well. So we've got the
[4:50] capability to uh to go through the
[4:52] desert uh and broadcast live as the as
[4:54] the troops push in and then we can also
[4:56] go uh when we're standing still
[4:58] stationary. John, I don't want to be
[5:00] flip about it, but if the Marines have
[5:01] any extra heavy duty shock absorbers,
[5:03] let us recommend that you get some. But
[5:05] let's move on to the more substantive
[5:06] material here. Uh, I didn't have any
[5:08] idea until you showed us some actually.
[5:11] >> Go ahead, John.
[5:15] >> No, no, go ahead, Dan. I was just going
[5:16] to say that this this road is actually
[5:18] uh pretty smooth compared to some of the
[5:20] ones that we've been on lately.
[5:22] >> John, we I had no idea that the sand uh
[5:25] was this thick. When we talk about the
[5:27] fog of war, it's usually a metaphor.
[5:30] Here you have in effect sand fog. Let's
[5:33] set aside the question of whose idea it
[5:35] was to launch this kind of offensive in
[5:38] this kind of sand conditions deep into
[5:41] the sandstorm season. Let's set that
[5:42] aside for the moment. Uh how much of a
[5:46] impediment? How much does this slow down
[5:48] the advance of the Marines you're with?
[5:53] Yeah, it it doesn't really slow it down
[5:55] when you're talking just about the sort
[5:56] of dust that's kicked up by a vehicle.
[5:58] It just means you really got to keep
[5:59] your head on a swivel and make sure that
[6:00] you uh keep an eye on the vehicle in
[6:02] front of you. Where it really tends to
[6:04] bog down operations is when you get
[6:07] those sand storms that that kick up and
[6:10] uh they they create a real choking dust
[6:13] that completely obscure visibility.
[6:14] Obviously, the uh the GPS guided bombs
[6:17] uh the the JDAMs as they're called uh
[6:20] joint direct attack munitions uh still
[6:22] function very well because they're
[6:23] working off of satellites. But anything
[6:25] where you need line of sight or laser
[6:26] guiding or anything like that is
[6:28] extremely affected by sandstorms. It can
[6:30] also slow down the movement of of
[6:32] armored columns as well and certainly
[6:33] infantry has a difficult time when when
[6:35] the sand is blowing. This is really just
[6:37] being kicked up by the vehicles, but you
[6:39] can imagine we had a little bit of
[6:40] trouble last night. we thought we were
[6:42] inside Iraq when we're actually uh still
[6:44] on the Kuwaiti side of the border. It's
[6:45] because when you're wearing night vision
[6:47] goggles and you see that that cloud of
[6:49] sand uh kick up in front of you, there's
[6:52] absolutely no light whatsoever to be
[6:54] amplified by the the night vision
[6:56] goggles and it's it's like being in the
[6:58] in the middle of a a blizzard uh or
[7:02] being in the middle of a a vanilla
[7:04] milkshake. You just you cannot see
[7:06] literally the front of the vehicle. Um,
[7:08] now looking off to our side here. Let me
[7:10] let me pick up our our remote camera
[7:12] here if I could. Uh, we seem to see a
[7:15] line of, uh, vehicles off to the left
[7:17] there. Uh, oh, sorry. It's it's a line
[7:20] of camels. Through the through the smoke
[7:21] in my aging eyes, it's difficult to tell
[7:23] what's what, but there is the ship of
[7:25] the desert. Uh, out there to the side.
[7:27] Uh, some of what we're seeing as we
[7:29] travel through the desert here. The one
[7:31] thing that we haven't encountered and
[7:32] it's been kind of unusual is there have
[7:35] been no opposing forces that have been
[7:37] cited so far. Now, obviously, we have
[7:39] some lead elements of this battalion
[7:41] that are roaming far in front of us who
[7:43] are making sure that all of the lanes
[7:45] are cleared, but um so far there's
[7:47] there's been absolutely no sight of any
[7:49] Iraqi forces. I have to say that there
[7:52] was heavy heavy heavy bombardment last
[7:54] night. Uh they were just uh pounding
[7:56] these uh these units. The uh the 18th
[7:58] division, the 51st division with
[8:00] artillery, shells were falling at the
[8:02] rate of of one a second at a 30-minute
[8:04] barrage. Then they take a 30-minute
[8:07] break to rearm and then they'd be back
[8:08] at it again. A shell a second for
[8:10] another 30 minutes. Uh we saw them from
[8:12] our our pre-positioning uh point just
[8:15] south of the the BM that marks the
[8:16] northernmost point of the Kuwaiti uh
[8:19] border. Uh we saw them dropping bombs
[8:21] all night long. There's there's a a hill
[8:24] to the uh to the uh to the north just to
[8:28] the north at the Iraq Kuwaiti border.
[8:30] And I think I'm I'm I'm good in saying
[8:32] this because this was supposed to be
[8:33] attacked last night. It's called Saffan
[8:35] Hill. It's an observation post. It's a
[8:37] listening post. And uh the uh US
[8:41] military I'm changing again here to our
[8:43] got our camera up in a helicopter up in
[8:45] the sky there as you can see. Uh but the
[8:47] uh the US military wanted to take away
[8:49] the Iraqi military's uh eyes and and so
[8:52] what they did was they they dropped at
[8:54] least uh 20 JDAM bombs, these uh uh
[8:57] joint direct attack munitions with the
[8:58] GPS guide and a bunch of napom on the
[9:01] top of that hill. They said that the
[9:03] elevation of the of the hill was 441 ft
[9:06] when they started. It would be 421 ft
[9:09] when they finished. They plan to take 20
[9:11] ft off of the top of that mountain. And
[9:13] the reason why they dropped the Napal
[9:14] was uh they said that they wanted to to
[9:16] send up a signal flare so that the 51st
[9:19] and the 18th Iraqi divisions could see
[9:21] that from a long way off, know what they
[9:23] were up against and and the US
[9:26] military's intention with that was to
[9:28] encourage them to lay down their
[9:30] weapons. They're they're trying as much
[9:31] as possible here to to minimize Iraqi
[9:34] casualties, to minimize the possibility
[9:36] of American casualties uh by by trying
[9:40] to convince these divisions to
[9:41] surrender. Now, there's a famous story
[9:43] that was rolling around the camp that we
[9:44] were at last week that one of the
[9:46] division generals called his Iraqi
[9:49] counterpart on his cell phone. He got
[9:51] the cell phone number of this Iraqi
[9:52] general and he said, "When the shooting
[9:54] starts, meet me on the border and
[9:57] surrender or you will be annihilated."
[10:00] So, this is part of the psychological
[10:02] operations, the scops that the US
[10:03] military is engaging in as well. Dan,
[10:06] >> John, a small question. First of all,
[10:08] let me say to see you live by video
[10:12] phone travel along there with a camel. I
[10:14] don't we don't know whether it's camel
[10:16] caravan or couldn't tell whether just a
[10:18] a herd of camels, if you will, off to
[10:21] the left as you travel along. Uh this is
[10:24] further in indication that this is the
[10:27] first information war. But John, about
[10:29] how fast you're traveling, how many
[10:30] miles per hour? Take a look down there
[10:32] at the speedometer. About what's your
[10:33] speed?
[10:36] >> Oh, right. Right now it's not very much.
[10:38] It's about 3 mph. We've uh we've slowed
[10:40] down again, but I think we got up to
[10:42] about 40 mph during a couple of those
[10:44] runs there. And and these light armored
[10:46] vehicles uh that the second uh uh light
[10:49] armored reconnaissance battalion out of
[10:52] Camp Lun, North Carolina uses are uh
[10:54] capable of doing 50 or 60 m an hour
[10:57] across uh rough and open terrain. Um, so
[11:01] these these these this this battalion,
[11:03] as I as I mentioned before, is is really
[11:06] the tip of the spear. It it goes in,
[11:08] it's tasked with in any engagement,
[11:11] going in deep and going in quickly,
[11:13] drawing the enemy out, uh, reporting
[11:15] back to the main battalion where the the
[11:17] enemy is, maybe laying down some
[11:18] suppressing fire and engaging with some
[11:20] armored vehicles just to uh to let that
[11:23] unit know that uh the Americans are on
[11:25] their way. and then uh the follow on
[11:27] forces do the mopping up operation. So
[11:29] these guys, they have to be light, they
[11:31] have to be fast, they have to be tough,
[11:33] and after living with them for the past
[11:36] couple of weeks out in the Kuwaiti
[11:38] desert, I can tell you, Dan, that they
[11:39] are all three and more.
[11:41] >> John Roberts is reporting live by video
[11:43] phone as the US Marines highball toward
[11:46] uh Baghdad. A comp a companion move. The
[11:50] US Army's Third Infantry Division is
[11:52] doing much the same thing. John stick in
[11:55] here with us if you will. Uh one's
[11:57] reminded that uh Napoleon in another age
[12:01] era of warfare said and I quote him the
[12:02] strength of an army like the momentum in
[12:05] mechanics is estimated by the weight
[12:08] multiplied multiplied by the velocity. A
[12:11] rapid march exerts a beneficial moral
[12:13] influence on the army and increases its
[12:16] means of victory. Meaning in effect that
[12:18] it helps morale. Now my question to you
[12:20] John Roberts, have you had a chance to
[12:21] talk to these Marines? Is their morale
[12:23] up high or are they still in sort of
[12:26] wound tight uh given that you they've
[12:28] only been inside Iraq for a few hours
[12:30] now?
[12:34] >> Um morale has been very high, Dan. As as
[12:37] you know, as a former Marine, morale in
[12:39] the Marine Corps tends to be very high.
[12:41] They are used to living in austere
[12:43] environments unlike some of their
[12:46] counterparts in other branches of the
[12:47] military. They're used to uh doing
[12:49] everything with nothing. And so for them
[12:51] living in the desert hasn't really been
[12:53] the hardship that uh it might have been
[12:55] for uh for some of the other forces. But
[12:57] uh the the one thing that we ran into
[12:59] time and time and time again when we
[13:01] were talking with with these Marines was
[13:04] this idea that nobody wants to be here.
[13:07] Nobody wants to go to war, but they have
[13:08] a job to do and they would like to get
[13:10] the job done as quickly as possible and
[13:12] go back home. the the the one thing that
[13:14] we hear all the time is my main goal
[13:16] here and let me just if I could switch
[13:18] to our uh our remote camera here uh the
[13:22] the one thing uh that I hear them say
[13:25] all the time is uh we just want to go
[13:27] home. We want to get this done and uh
[13:29] and we want to go home. But um I I have
[13:32] to say that after being with them uh
[13:34] every time you uh you talk to these
[13:35] Marines, you uh you rarely hear a
[13:37] complaint unless it's uh about the fact
[13:39] that it's uh it was taking so long. Let
[13:41] me switch back here. uh and unless you
[13:44] hear from them, it's the fact that it
[13:45] was taking so long for them to uh get
[13:47] about the business that they uh they do
[13:49] engage in professionally. Although, you
[13:51] know, they were all hoping as well that
[13:53] if diplomacy was possible to bring this
[13:56] to a resolution, uh they would support
[13:58] that as well.
[14:00] >> John Roberts, we intend to pick you up
[14:02] along the way. I see the dust seems to
[14:04] be thinning out at least a little bit
[14:07] and uh however many camels there were
[14:09] off to your left as you rolled along
[14:11] there. Uh they seem to be going their
[14:13] own pace in the opposite direction.
[14:17] >> Oh uh Dan, actually if we can if we can
[14:20] just uh get our remote camera up.
[14:21] Randle, there's a shot. There's a looks
[14:23] like an Iraqi uh tank out there. And uh
[14:27] sorry if there's a little bit jittery
[14:28] here, Dan, as we just get this in. Uh
[14:31] there that's what appears to be to my
[14:33] foggy eyes to be a uh an Iraqi T72 tank.
[14:37] Um and that's sitting all by itself out
[14:40] there in the desert. It seems to be in a
[14:42] fighting position. And uh difficult to
[14:45] say if uh if that tank uh was hit last
[14:49] night or if it was abandoned or or what
[14:51] it's doing out there in the desert, but
[14:52] as far as I know, the Marines have not
[14:54] been in Iraq long enough to themselves
[14:56] have dug in some fighting positions. So,
[14:59] it's uh very possible that that is uh
[15:02] let me switch to this. I'm sorry for the
[15:03] shaky camera work here. And the Reynolds
[15:05] ready. We'll go back to it. Uh that
[15:07] would appear to be u an Iraqi tank out
[15:10] there. Dan, um disposition unknown at
[15:12] this point.
[15:13] >> John, is it possible it was a tank left
[15:15] over from 1991 hit dead in the turret
[15:18] and just left out there?
[15:22] Uh, you know, Dan, I've never been to
[15:23] this part of the world before, so it's
[15:25] quite possible that that's been there
[15:26] for uh for 12 years, or it's quite
[15:28] possible that it's only been there uh
[15:30] overnight. Difficult to say. John
[15:32] Roberts reporting live video phone with
[15:34] US Marines as they pierce deeper uh into
[15:38] southern Iraq. I hope we can get some
[15:41] pictures up now of the US Army's Third
[15:44] Infantry Division which is uh somewhat
[15:46] to the as best we can figure it out
[15:49] somewhat to the west uh of the Marines.
[15:52] General Corner, do you have any
[15:53] information on that and would it be a
[15:54] security thing to say if we knew?
[15:56] >> Well, right now we assume that they are
[15:57] to the west. Let me just add something
[15:59] to to what's to what John was pointing
[16:02] out there. The description of the
[16:04] weather conditions, the dust and what we
[16:06] were able to see. Uh if you can imagine
[16:09] what that's like for the helicopter
[16:10] pilots. Uh this is probably the most
[16:12] treacherous, most dangerous conditions
[16:15] in which we can find ourselves flying.
[16:16] >> You're talking now over these pictures
[16:18] taken earlier. These are the Army Third
[16:20] Infantry Division equipment, uh their
[16:23] tanks, the river crossing equipment and
[16:24] so forth. Go ahead, General.
[16:25] >> Yeah, I was just talk I was just trying
[16:26] to add on to what John was talking about
[16:28] in regard to the dust conditions and uh
[16:30] and the impact that that could have on
[16:32] flying conditions. We earlier had that
[16:34] that crash. Uh the point being that
[16:37] brownout conditions for both takeoff and
[16:39] landing obscures the pilot's vision and
[16:42] when you have night vision goggles it's
[16:44] even more difficult. So this is probably
[16:45] some of the most dangerous conditions
[16:46] we're going to find ourselves both
[16:48] driving and flying but flying in
[16:49] particular. And the what you're seeing
[16:52] right now of course this is probably the
[16:53] third infantry division. They do have
[16:55] bridging material. Uh if they have to
[16:57] use it it's there. Uh they bring it up
[16:59] very rapidly bridge any obstacles and
[17:01] move rapidly across it. But what they'll
[17:03] try to use is the existing
[17:06] uh crossing sites, the bridges and so
[17:08] forth. If they uh if they still exist
[17:10] and uh they don't have to secure them
[17:12] from the enemy uh or even if they do
[17:14] have to secure them from the enemy, they
[17:15] can move much more quickly uh across
[17:17] those existing bridges rather than
[17:19] bringing up bridging material.
[17:20] >> That is the bridges don't get blown.
[17:22] >> That's correct.
[17:23] >> Thank you, General. We also want to
[17:25] mention uh that there have been uh
[17:27] sporadically over the last few days
[17:28] these reports of uh at least some
[17:31] members of two Iraqi people's army
[17:34] divisions uh willing to surrender to
[17:36] coalition forces, allied forces. And
[17:39] again tonight there's some reports that
[17:41] at least some of those uh units have now
[17:44] surrendered to allied forces. And while
[17:47] it's believed that that's true, we have
[17:49] not absolutely completely solidly
[17:51] confirmed that. And therefore, we
[17:53] mention it to you that is widely
[17:55] expected if they haven't done so already
[17:57] that they will do so. And it may it may
[17:59] turn out to be true that they've already
[18:01] done so. We simply can't report it as a
[18:03] fact as yet because we don't know it to
[18:04] be a fact. CBS News 60 Minutes 2
[18:08] correspondent Scott P is on the front
[18:10] lines along the Iraq Kuwaiti border and
[18:12] P joins us tonight live from near Bassra
[18:15] where the British are moving on the at
[18:17] port city but Scott it's my
[18:18] understanding they have not at least not
[18:20] yet actually taken it
[18:24] >> not taken it yet Dan but certainly the
[18:26] British and combined American forces
[18:29] very very soon will be in a position to
[18:31] be able to do so if they want to. Uh
[18:33] there was a tremendous artillery barrage
[18:36] laid down here last night. Lasted all
[18:38] night long as they softened up the Iraqi
[18:42] defenses all around Basra, the second
[18:44] largest city in Iraq, about 1 and a half
[18:46] million people. And we are still hearing
[18:49] some artillery being fired this morning,
[18:52] but at this point it has slackened
[18:54] greatly. Uh it is clear that the battle
[18:57] for these approaches to Basra. Bos Bosra
[18:59] is right behind me. The battle for these
[19:01] approaches to Basra has has concluded
[19:04] and the American and British forces are
[19:07] moving at will through this area. Just a
[19:10] few minutes ago, we encountered three US
[19:13] Marine helicopters. They are Cobra
[19:16] attack helicopters and they were loaded
[19:18] for bear, Dan. They were loaded with
[19:20] Hellfire missiles, full racks, all three
[19:23] of them. And one of the things I found
[19:25] interesting about them was they were
[19:26] they were patrolling up and down this
[19:28] border area and they didn't seem to have
[19:30] any targets.
[19:32] Their missile racks were all completely
[19:34] full and they seem to have run out of
[19:36] targets of opportunity to shoot with
[19:37] those hellfire missiles which are
[19:39] generally used against armor. So things
[19:42] in this part of the border area are
[19:45] quickly becoming pacified. The next big
[19:48] event in this sector will be the
[19:51] approach to Basra and the taking of that
[19:53] city. Dan
[19:55] >> Scott, what do you hear about that? You
[19:57] say the next big thing is when when the
[19:59] unit is and it's understood we there's a
[20:02] dropout there. Uh that now we look
[20:04] forward to what happens forward if
[20:06] that's a proper phrase to what happens
[20:08] in Baghdad itself. Now we talked to
[20:10] David Cheder earlier. He is convinced
[20:12] that some of the very best Republican
[20:14] guard units along with others are
[20:16] already uh in Baghdad in private homes
[20:20] perhaps in mosques and other places uh
[20:22] that they're dispersed inside Baghdad.
[20:27] >> Yes, Baghdad is going to be difficult.
[20:29] But one of the things that the Army and
[20:32] the Marine Corps is hoping about Basra
[20:34] where we are here is that Basra will be
[20:37] a welcoming city and it is more likely
[20:40] to occur here than just about any place
[20:42] else in Iraq. Uh Basra as you know is a
[20:46] city that is primarily Shiite Muslim.
[20:50] Saddam and his inner circle are Sunni
[20:52] Muslim. Saddam has persecuted the people
[20:56] of the Basra area for years and in fact
[20:58] in 1991 after the Gulf War there there
[21:01] was an insurrection against Saddam here.
[21:04] So these people of all the people of
[21:07] Iraq the people right here in the
[21:09] Euphrates River Valley down around Basra
[21:11] are the people most likely to welcome
[21:14] the coalition forces. What the US Army
[21:17] would like to see here is a welcoming
[21:20] into the city without a gunfight and
[21:23] then to be able to put that image on
[21:25] television all around the world and show
[21:28] the world that the Iraqi people are
[21:30] welcoming US forces. It is an important
[21:33] psychological edge that they hope to
[21:35] achieve in Basra. Once they have Basra,
[21:39] it is a fairly easy drive up the road
[21:42] about 200 miles to Baghdad itself. But
[21:45] Dan, as you said, the Republican Guard
[21:47] and the Special Republican Guard,
[21:49] Saddam's most loyal, best equipped, best
[21:52] trained troops, have been drawn into a
[21:55] circle around Baghdad, have been drawn
[21:57] into specific neighborhoods inside
[21:59] Baghdad that they feel that they can
[22:01] defend. And it is the hope of the
[22:04] Pentagon that they will be able to get
[22:06] those forces to surrender because
[22:08] digging them out block by block, house
[22:10] by house is something that no one in the
[22:13] military is looking forward to.
[22:14] >> Well, Scott, I know that the US Marines
[22:17] have a pretty incredible piece of
[22:20] equipment, a backpacksiz robot, uh,
[22:23] which is designed specifically, uh,
[22:26] among other things to aid in house by
[22:29] house, block byb block fighting. even,
[22:31] it's my understanding, has ability to
[22:33] sort of look around corners in a way.
[22:35] Did you see the Marines carrying any of
[22:37] those backpack robots?
[22:40] >> Well, we haven't seen any of that equip
[22:42] equipment, per se, but you're you're
[22:44] quite right, Dan. They have a lot of
[22:46] specialized technology that they hope
[22:48] would give them an edge in urban combat.
[22:51] They have fiber optic systems that
[22:53] literally allow them to see around
[22:55] corners. They have a an eyepiece that
[22:57] comes out of a helmet so they can have a
[22:59] little television monitor there, see
[23:01] around corners, see inside buildings
[23:04] before they have to enter them. And
[23:06] frankly, one of the things that they've
[23:07] been working on, the US Army and the
[23:09] Marine Corps here over the last four
[23:11] months is urban warfare training. Uh,
[23:14] one unit we visited in Kuwait uh, three
[23:17] or four weeks ago had literally built a
[23:20] little town out of trailers and every
[23:22] day they were going in there with live
[23:24] ammo and their weapons and training,
[23:26] training, training, sort of like a SWAT
[23:28] team really more than than anything
[23:30] else, working on those techniques to be
[23:33] able to clear rooms and clear buildings
[23:36] as safely as possible.
[23:38] Scott Pelle, 60 Minutes 2 correspondent,
[23:40] CBS News correspondent who was in the
[23:42] thick of things earlier in the day,
[23:44] reporting live from along the Kuwait
[23:46] Iraqi border. Thanks, Scott.
[23:48] Going to turn again to General Bucknan.
[23:51] Let's pause for a moment. The story line
[23:53] of the hour is the US Army's Third
[23:56] Infantry Division with their tanks, with
[23:58] their river crossing equipment, uh with
[24:00] their fuel supplies are rolling toward
[24:02] the Euphrates River. The US Marines u
[24:06] are rolling somewhat uh to the east of
[24:10] them. The British ground forces are
[24:12] moving toward Bachelor. They have not
[24:14] yet taken Bassra. That's kind of the
[24:15] story line of the hour. The story line
[24:17] of the day is that after a second raid
[24:20] on Baghdad with specific targets, not a
[24:23] a big air and light show, if you will,
[24:25] specific targets. After that, US ground
[24:28] forces moved into Iraq. But Secretary of
[24:31] Defense Rumfell says there could be a
[24:34] lot worse to come if the Iraqi army
[24:38] doesn't cave and surrender. Now,
[24:40] General, put that put a frame around all
[24:43] that for us. I think what you may be
[24:45] seeing, Dan, is us exercising some some
[24:48] operational patience here. Uh we're not
[24:50] experiencing any resistance. We're
[24:52] maintaining all-around security as we
[24:54] move forward toward toward uh those
[24:56] objectives, both Basra and eventually
[24:58] Baghdad.
[25:00] uh as long as we don't experience any
[25:02] contact, we're going to be very
[25:04] judicious in employing our combat power
[25:06] because we don't want to unnecessarily
[25:08] kill people. We don't want to damage
[25:10] property if we can come in and basically
[25:13] cord on off Iraq uh Baghdad. Um be very
[25:17] selective in the engagement of whatever
[25:19] forces are necessary to after we've
[25:21] isolated Saddam Hussein and his chain of
[25:23] command uh tighten a noose around him.
[25:27] That would be the most effective way to
[25:28] go about doing this. Speaking very
[25:30] generally now,
[25:31] >> General Tenno, thanks. You mentioned the
[25:33] speculation about Saddam Hussein,
[25:34] whether he's still alive, whether he's
[25:36] still in control. Now, David Chader uh
[25:39] speaking to us live a short while ago
[25:41] from Baghdad says both he and all Iraqis
[25:45] he has been able to talk to in Baghdad
[25:46] are one absolute convinced that Saddam
[25:48] Hussein is still alive. They believe
[25:51] that the person who has appeared on
[25:53] television twice in the last 24 to 36
[25:56] hours was indeed uh Saddam Hussein. Now
[25:59] with that as background, the report from
[26:02] Baghdad itself, speculation continues to
[26:05] swirl around the question of what has
[26:07] happened to Saddam Hussein. A great deal
[26:09] of this speculation is uh fed by uh
[26:12] unnamed intelligence and military
[26:14] sources in Washington and by Secretary
[26:16] of Defense Rumsfeld himself in his
[26:18] briefing today. Now, in the last few
[26:21] hours, intelligence officials have been
[26:23] quoted by the Washington Post as
[26:24] insisting that they believe Saddam
[26:26] Hussein was in the compound that was
[26:29] struck by US missiles in the first hour
[26:32] of the war. They insist they think he
[26:34] was there. They insist they think the
[26:36] compound was hit very hard. CBS News
[26:38] correspondent Russ Mitchell has more
[26:40] about all this. Russ Dan, these unnamed
[26:43] sources from the Washington Post also
[26:45] say there are indications that medical
[26:47] attention was needed for Saddam Hussein.
[26:49] They say they're basing this on what
[26:50] they call the fact that medical
[26:52] attention was urgently summoned on his
[26:55] behalf. Again, this from unnamed sources
[26:57] at the Washington Post, but as you
[26:58] pointed out, officials are still not
[27:00] sure if Saddam Hussein is alive or dead.
[27:04] This morning, there was a cabinet
[27:05] meeting in Iraq where Saddam Hussein or
[27:07] someone who looked like Saddam Hussein
[27:09] held court. Officials aren't sure if
[27:11] that was him or not, nor are they
[27:13] positive that Saddam Hussein was the
[27:14] person speaking to the Iraqi people on
[27:17] Wednesday after the attacks. Now,
[27:19] according to the Washington Post, Saddam
[27:21] Hussein may have been with one or two of
[27:24] his very powerful sons when the bomb
[27:26] started hitting on Wednesday. And let me
[27:28] tell you a little bit bit about his
[27:30] sons. The eldest is Uday. He is 39 years
[27:33] old. He is described by Iraqis as
[27:35] greedy, flashy, and corrupt. He owns
[27:39] newspapers and a television station. He
[27:41] also runs the Baghdad Olympic Committee.
[27:44] There are some reports in Iraq that he
[27:46] has been known to torture and kill
[27:49] members of the Iraqi soccer team if they
[27:51] did not perform to his liking. The other
[27:54] son is Cus. He is 37 years old. He is
[27:57] described as cool, has his father's
[27:59] trust, and is the Arab parent according
[28:02] to sources, but also he is known as
[28:05] ruthless. Saddam Hussein's favorite
[28:07] movie according to those in Iraq who
[28:10] know him is the Godfather and Newsweek
[28:12] magazine a while back who did a story on
[28:14] the family and pointed out if Saddam
[28:16] Hussein is the Don Corleó character in
[28:19] the Godfather his son Uday would be
[28:22] Sunny the reckless hotheaded son and
[28:25] Cusay would be Michael the cool but
[28:28] ultimately more dangerous son but Dan
[28:31] we've pointed out we've heard from folks
[28:33] in Iraq who say either way both of these
[28:36] guys in some circles have been known to
[28:37] make their father look like a choir boy.
[28:40] >> Ross Mitchell, I want to come back to
[28:41] you on this subject right now. Let's go
[28:42] live to Aaron Morarity who's in Kuwait
[28:44] City where air raid sirens went off a
[28:46] minute ago. You wouldn't recognize uh
[28:48] Aaron because of necessity she put on
[28:50] her gas mask. Aaron, I ask you if the
[28:52] microphone as close as you can to your
[28:54] mouth. Tell us what's happening.
[28:57] Well, that was the eighth time that
[28:59] there was an air raid siren that
[29:00] sounded. And I do have to follow
[29:03] instructions, so I have it on until we
[29:05] hear it all clear. Um, it's been this
[29:07] way, Dan, since yesterday, and I think
[29:09] it's caught everyone here by surprise.
[29:13] >> There have been uh at least uh three
[29:18] confirmed missiles lobbed of some
[29:20] description lobbed into Kuwait today.
[29:22] Some reports earlier said eight, some
[29:24] said six, but we feel comfortable saying
[29:26] three confirmed. Two of them were
[29:28] reportedly shot down by Patriot
[29:30] missiles. Uh another sort of broke apart
[29:32] and fell near some Marines. No
[29:34] casualties anywhere. Uh what is the
[29:37] effect of the almost continuous uh
[29:40] alerts uh Erin on morale there in Kuwait
[29:44] City?
[29:46] >> Well Dan, I have to be honest. While
[29:47] there were no injuries or reports of
[29:49] damage, what has been shattered is this
[29:52] sense of security. I talked to so many
[29:54] people this last week. Most of the
[29:56] Kuwaitis here didn't even have gas masks
[29:58] with them. Now there's a total change.
[30:01] Last night we were outside right on the
[30:03] street. No one was on the street except
[30:04] right in front of the Egyptian air
[30:06] offices and people were just begging for
[30:09] airline tickets. A seat anywhere out.
[30:13] Last night for a short time the airport
[30:14] was closed. Today the airport is open
[30:17] but most of the flights are still either
[30:19] cancelled or delayed. So it's very
[30:21] difficult for a lot of people here who
[30:23] were so relaxed just a day or so ago.
[30:27] >> And Erin, the city, Kuwait city looks uh
[30:31] and sounds quiet. I hear very little
[30:34] background noise. Are people off the
[30:36] streets staying in their homes or is
[30:37] there some sense of business as usual?
[30:41] >> Well, most many of the stores are
[30:43] closed. Most people are off the streets,
[30:45] although one man here in Kuwait told me
[30:47] it's just the women who are nervous, not
[30:49] the men. Um, but we noticed last night
[30:51] most of the time the stores are open
[30:53] till 10:00 at night. Nearly all of them
[30:55] were closed. Very few people on the
[30:57] street. The police were out,
[30:59] particularly in front of like the
[31:00] airline offices because they didn't want
[31:02] any kind of riot. It actually surprised
[31:04] me because people have been so calm up
[31:06] until now. Aaron Morerti reporting live
[31:09] from Kuwait City when there's where
[31:10] there's been another uh missile air raid
[31:13] alert but so far no sign of any strike
[31:17] in the war with Iraq. You can see and
[31:19] feel the concern for the US forces
[31:22] deployed over there among the families
[31:24] they left behind in places such as Fort
[31:27] Campbell, Kentucky. CBS's Bob McNamera
[31:30] is there.
[31:32] >> Wars Beginning brought a rush of fear to
[31:34] this Army town. that we all realize it's
[31:36] real and that we have no control over
[31:39] what goes on.
[31:40] >> 23
[31:42] 57.
[31:43] >> While life is usually by the numbers and
[31:45] by the book, war is a wild card.
[31:48] >> No sleep, a lot of explaining to the
[31:50] kids to do um
[31:53] that daddy's not going to come home as
[31:55] soon as maybe we thought he would.
[31:56] >> Cheryl Snap keeps her husband Frank
[31:58] close.
[31:59] >> Well, I have his dog tags that he gave
[32:01] me. Um, he had these made for me to keep
[32:03] with me and close. It's a reminder.
[32:07] >> With 19,000 of Fort Campbell's airborne
[32:10] troops in the war zone, reservists are
[32:12] arriving here for processing, like the
[32:14] medical attention necessary for them to
[32:16] join the fighting.
[32:18] >> Rick Mullins is one of seven Tennessee
[32:20] reservists headed for the war zone with
[32:22] their sons. He promised his wife, their
[32:25] son, Jeff, would come home, even if it
[32:27] meant giving his own life.
[32:29] >> I'll guarantee you. No question in my
[32:33] mind. He'll come home before I will if I
[32:35] have to. If I got anything to say about
[32:37] >> four, five, six, seven, eight.
[32:38] >> Dozens of soldiers were married by Judge
[32:40] Steve Trible just before they left for
[32:42] the Gulf.
[32:43] >> It was a hectic day. It was wild.
[32:45] >> His fear is some of those names could
[32:47] appear on casualty lists.
[32:49] >> Absolutely. And uh it uh I mean there
[32:53] may be several of them that don't come
[32:54] back.
[32:55] >> This was one of his patches and I had
[32:57] kept it with me all this time.
[32:59] Seamstress Marilyn Fry's brother was
[33:01] killed in the Gulf War. Now she works 12
[33:04] hours a day sewing airborne patches to
[33:07] uniforms for another desert conflict.
[33:10] >> We never got to say goodbye, but you
[33:12] know, you get over I mean, you actually
[33:15] never get over it, but you deal with it.
[33:18] >> Marilyn Fry has sewn thousands of these
[33:20] flags on uniforms lately. And like many
[33:23] here tonight, she is hoping and praying
[33:25] that the men and women who wear them
[33:27] will come back to Fort Campbell alive.
[33:30] >> Bob McNamera in Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
[33:32] Now, many other Americans are following
[33:34] through with their promise to protest
[33:36] the war, which for various reasons they
[33:38] say they feel deeply about. Several
[33:41] thousand anti-war activists turned out
[33:43] to demonstrate across the United States
[33:45] today. It's impossible to get a even a
[33:49] fairly accurate estimate, but we can
[33:50] only say many thousands. About 2,000
[33:53] were arrested. In Chicago, police said
[33:56] about 10,000 protesters, all told, tried
[33:59] during the day to block traffic on the
[34:01] city's main streets. At least at least
[34:03] 200 were arrested in Chicago. Thousands
[34:06] more, demonstrated in San Francisco,
[34:08] disrupting traffic during rush hours.
[34:11] John Blackstone was there in San
[34:12] Francisco.
[34:14] >> You can't go back.
[34:18] In San Francisco, demonstrators chose
[34:20] their targets with precision. One was
[34:22] the corporate headquarters of the
[34:24] construction giant Becttel Incorporated.
[34:26] Bring it home.
[34:28] Reflection.
[34:30] >> Beel is one of those believed to be
[34:32] bidding to rebuild Iraq after the war.
[34:35] >> There are thousands and thousands of
[34:37] people coming out to say NO TO US
[34:39] EMPIRE.
[34:41] Protesters moved through San Francisco's
[34:43] financial district, stopping traffic at
[34:45] major intersections.
[34:47] >> We think that it's wrong for there to be
[34:49] business as usual while the war's going
[34:51] on. The protesters left some usually
[34:53] busy streets in the heart of the city
[34:55] empty. On others, there was gridlock.
[34:58] Did you intend to be part of this this
[34:59] morning?
[34:59] >> No, we got stacked.
[35:01] >> I have rights, too. They have rights to
[35:03] protest the war. I have rights to go to
[35:05] work. Opinion polls show that in
[35:07] California, support for the war is
[35:09] dramatically below levels in the rest of
[35:10] the country. Here in San Francisco,
[35:12] anti-war demonstrations have brought
[35:14] tens of thousands into the streets. It
[35:16] doesn't seem to have had an impact.
[35:18] >> That's true. And that's why it's time to
[35:20] escalate now.
[35:21] >> Even though we personally, as this
[35:22] little group, can't stop the war
[35:24] >> as this all of us going downtown is
[35:26] powerful. That's how I feel.
[35:27] >> San Francisco police made more than a
[35:29] thousand arrests as they tried to keep
[35:31] the streets open. Police say it's
[35:33] believed to be the largest number of
[35:35] arrests ever made in a single day here.
[35:37] >> I don't support killing for oil. And I
[35:40] definitely don't support our President
[35:41] Bush, but I do support peacemakers LIKE
[35:43] THIS.
[35:44] >> FIGHT BACK. FIGHT BACK.
[35:45] >> IN NEW YORK, protesters held umbrellas
[35:48] as well as placards. In Philadelphia,
[35:50] demonstrators blocking the entrance to
[35:52] the federal building were given a
[35:53] deadline.
[35:56] >> About a hundred were arrested. There
[35:58] were other protests nationally from
[36:00] Providence, Rhode Island to Seattle,
[36:02] Washington. Here in San Francisco,
[36:04] demonstrators promised more civil
[36:06] disobedience. Police expect more
[36:08] arrests. John Blackstone, CBS News, San
[36:11] Francisco.
[36:12] >> And now we go from San Francisco to the
[36:14] desert in southern Iraq where John
[36:16] Roberts is with elements of the US
[36:18] Marine First Division, uh, where they
[36:21] have literally their pedal to the metal,
[36:24] uh, heading hopefully for the
[36:26] Mesopotamia Valley. And John, is it fair
[36:28] or unfair to say the Marines, whether
[36:31] they have any realistic chance of doing
[36:32] it or not, they would love to beat the
[36:34] army to the outskirts of Baghdad?
[36:38] >> Well, you know, Dan, the Marines always
[36:40] like to be first. And uh if they could
[36:42] be the first ones to the gates of
[36:43] Baghdad, I'm I'm sure that they would.
[36:45] Uh a little orientation uh for where we
[36:47] are right now as we just kind of slow
[36:49] down again in a cloud of dust. If you
[36:51] take a look at the front, that's these
[36:53] are the conditions that we're driving
[36:54] in. To the side it looks pretty good,
[36:56] but uh to the to the front it often
[36:58] obscures our vision almost totally. We
[36:59] appear to be rolling through a Persian
[37:02] Gulf War one, a Gulf War I battlefield.
[37:05] Uh there's there's lots of old arament
[37:08] here that's that's blown into uh
[37:10] numerous pieces. There are lots of
[37:12] fighting holes in which soldiers would
[37:14] have dug fighting positions in. um don't
[37:17] know which battlefield uh this is nor
[37:20] should we probably say which one it is
[37:22] uh either because uh for reasons of
[37:24] operational security we're being
[37:25] deliberately vague about uh where we are
[37:28] in the overall scheme of things but um
[37:31] safe to say that this is a battlefield
[37:33] left over from 1991 again and I I
[37:36] stressed this the last time that uh that
[37:38] you and I chatted Dan we have so far
[37:41] seen no Iraqi armor no Iraqi soldiers no
[37:45] Iraqi vehicles nothing to suggest that
[37:48] there's anyone out here other than the
[37:49] US Marines. Uh which could be an
[37:51] indication that we're going around uh
[37:54] the Iraqi positions or it could also be
[37:56] an indication that the Iraqi divisions
[37:58] have chosen not to fight uh either
[38:01] decided to stay in their barracks or um
[38:04] perhaps are engaging in some sort of uh
[38:07] negotiation to capitulate or perhaps
[38:10] they're just rounded up in another area
[38:13] and they're far from where we are. Uh,
[38:15] difficult to say, Dan, but I know that
[38:17] the strategy of the US military was to
[38:18] get some of these softer units, the
[38:20] regular army units, and get them to
[38:22] capitulate in order to uh to minimize
[38:25] the uh the number of casualties to order
[38:28] in order to minimize the difficulty in
[38:30] uh in traversing uh this difficult
[38:32] terrain as uh they work their way up uh
[38:37] to Baghdad. Uh now going back to what
[38:39] you were initially asked uh there have
[38:42] been uh schedules uh thrown around of
[38:46] maybe uh the army and marines could be
[38:48] outside of the gates of Baghdad in three
[38:51] perhaps 4 days. Now as uh as one of the
[38:55] uh commanding colonels Joe Dowy said
[38:57] yesterday you know anytime that we go
[38:59] into enemy territory uh the enemy has a
[39:02] vote in what happens. He says and
[39:04] definitely the Iraqis have a vote in
[39:05] what happens though the Marines have met
[39:07] little resistance so far. They know that
[39:10] and this is well documented as well.
[39:12] This is not breaching operational
[39:13] security at all. They know that some of
[39:15] the tougher units of the Republican
[39:17] Guard and the Special Republican Guard
[39:19] like the Baghdad unit, the Al-Na unit,
[39:22] uh they are waiting on the roads further
[39:24] further north. They those units have
[39:26] been drawn back to protect Baghdad and
[39:28] the road to Baghdad. So, while they may
[39:30] have some pretty easygoing of it now,
[39:32] with the exception of the choking dust,
[39:33] they know that the road ahead could get
[39:35] much harder in the very near future.
[39:39] >> John Roberts uh want to remind folks
[39:42] that this is coming live through uh
[39:44] video phone. We didn't have this kind of
[39:46] technology for uh capability for
[39:49] television uh at the time of the last
[39:51] Gulf War. It's a small thing, but uh
[39:54] gives further proof how deep we've gone
[39:56] into information warfare. Just one of
[39:59] those small things. Now, John Roberts,
[40:02] for those of you perhaps are just
[40:04] joining us or you need reminding, um
[40:06] here's what the situation is that the
[40:09] British ground forces have moved over
[40:11] toward Bosa. In fact, let's go to a
[40:13] different map here. moved over toward
[40:15] Baza on the southern tip uh of Iraq, the
[40:19] major port city, the only real big port
[40:21] that the Iraqis have opening into the
[40:23] Persian Gulf. And the British forces
[40:25] have concentrated more or less in this
[40:27] direction. They haven't taken Bosra yet,
[40:29] although that is expected. Uh the
[40:32] Marines are somewhere roughly in this
[40:34] area. This is where John Roberts is
[40:36] traveling with the Marines. And the
[40:39] these are rough and there's no security
[40:41] concern here because it is so rough. and
[40:43] the third infantry division. Those
[40:45] pictures of the tanks and their big
[40:47] equipment and their fuel trucks moving
[40:49] that we showed you earlier are roughly
[40:51] here. And the the object is to first of
[40:55] all uh hook up with any forces of the
[40:58] Iraqi army that want to surrender. Uh
[41:01] also to secure the oils. Keep in mind
[41:03] that one of the main purposes of the
[41:05] mission, first purpose to decapitate
[41:07] Saddam Hussein, kill him and his sons if
[41:09] possible, keep him from being connected
[41:11] with his commanding control. If you
[41:13] can't kill him, try to cut him off from
[41:15] his people. Second on the list of uh
[41:18] mission goals was to keep him from
[41:20] setting up fire to the oil fields. Now,
[41:23] on this map, this Ramala oil field is
[41:25] roughly in, you know, this area of
[41:27] Bashra. This is not exact. Now while
[41:29] some oil wells were reported to be
[41:31] burning here today, defense secretary
[41:33] Russell said some wells were the fields
[41:36] so far as you know has not been set a
[41:37] fire and so one of the roles of the
[41:40] Marines andor the army or we put that in
[41:42] reversal to secure that uh the oil field
[41:45] there. But in the main, what the Marines
[41:47] and where John Roberts is traveling
[41:49] along and the US Army Third Division,
[41:52] what they want to do is get into this
[41:54] Mesopotamia Valley between the Tigris
[41:57] and the Euphrates rivers and then uh
[42:00] hight tail it on up uh to at least the
[42:03] outskirts of Baghdad. And General
[42:05] Kernand, it'd be my understanding, and
[42:07] correct me if I'm wrong, uh, that a
[42:10] prudent commander might pause, at least
[42:12] pause on the outskirts of Baghdad to
[42:14] assess how difficult it's going to be to
[42:16] take the city center itself.
[42:18] >> Sure. Absolutely, Dan. I mean, uh,
[42:20] they're going to they're going to be
[42:20] continually doing a threat assessment.
[42:22] What is it they encounter? What kind of
[42:24] capabilities do the does the enemy have?
[42:27] Uh, how can they uh how can they offset
[42:29] that? Uh, so yes, they will be doing
[42:32] that. That'll be that'll be a very
[42:33] deliberate uh process.
[42:35] >> And what will all these tanks that we
[42:37] see with the army's third infantry
[42:40] division and for that matter the tanks
[42:42] the Marines have do when they get to the
[42:43] gates of Baghdad?
[42:45] >> Well, it basically allows us to to to
[42:46] court on it off to seal it if you'd like
[42:49] se seal Baghdad from any outside
[42:51] interference and uh and be able to start
[42:54] concentrating your efforts very
[42:56] selectively on those uh those forces
[42:58] that are protecting Saddam Hussein. and
[43:00] if you can isolate him, go in
[43:01] specifically after him. Uh I might just
[43:04] add one other thing because I think it's
[43:06] important to point out in addition to
[43:07] the objectives that you pointed out, the
[43:09] other one that is very important is
[43:11] making sure that we secure any weapon of
[43:14] mass destruction uh weapons that may be
[43:17] out there and delivering means
[43:19] >> that and making sure that Israel is not
[43:21] drawn into the war. That's one of the
[43:23] the principal goals. And to get whatever
[43:26] combat we can get done, get it done
[43:28] quickly and to try to reopen schools, uh
[43:32] get hospitals operating, come in with
[43:35] what's generally called humanitarian aid
[43:37] to underscore the Iraqi people that this
[43:40] is not uh an army of invasion. It's not
[43:43] an army of It is an army of invasion.
[43:45] It's not an army of occupation. It is an
[43:47] army of liberation.
[43:48] >> That's absolutely correct. what we want
[43:50] to be we want to gain their trust and
[43:51] confidence very quickly that this is
[43:53] about improving their way of life giving
[43:55] them their freedom giving them control
[43:57] of their country that's a that's a very
[43:59] good point
[44:00] >> thanks to and Russ Mitchell I want to
[44:01] come back to you again about uh partly
[44:03] because the Washington Post has run
[44:04] pretty hard with this story of uh
[44:07] unnamed intelligence agents following on
[44:09] to the tone set by defense secretary
[44:13] Rumsfeld earlier today that well Saddam
[44:15] Hussein uh may have indeed been hit in
[44:17] that bunker in the first night of raids
[44:19] in Baghdad, the intelligence agents
[44:21] saying, "We we we feel certain he was in
[44:24] there. We feel certain we hit the thing
[44:26] hard." Uh so they keep raising
[44:28] questions. Two things occur to me. one
[44:30] Russ uh what's the latest information on
[44:32] what we know whether these broadcasts
[44:35] the first one with Saddam Hussein right
[44:36] after the raid and then the one that was
[44:38] put out today whether these were live
[44:41] broadcast or taped because if they were
[44:43] taped it raises the possibility
[44:45] italicized the word that these were
[44:48] pre-taped if you will canned to be
[44:51] played at the appropriate moment by
[44:52] Saddam Hussein
[44:54] >> officially that's still up in the air
[44:55] folks in the uh in the State Department
[44:57] say they still don't know if that first
[44:59] address by Saddam Hussein after the
[45:01] attacks was on tape or not. So
[45:03] officially from Washington, the word is
[45:05] they're not sure. I spoke with General
[45:07] Cananan yesterday on doing a story on
[45:09] finding Saddam and and he was pointing
[45:11] out as Jim Stewart did as well in his
[45:13] piece that Saddam apparently has at
[45:15] least four body doubles roaming around.
[45:18] So if you find someone who is dead and
[45:20] it looks like Saddam Hussein in speaking
[45:22] with the general, he pointed out
[45:24] something really interesting. You'd
[45:25] almost have to get DNA from a family
[45:28] member to determine actually if it was
[45:32] in fact Saddam Hussein. So Dan, that
[45:35] remains the big question tonight. Was
[45:37] this Saddam Hussein at this cabinet
[45:39] meeting on Thursday? And was it Saddam
[45:41] Hussein addressing the Iraqi people on
[45:45] Wednesday? And once again, officially
[45:48] the US government does not know if that
[45:50] first address was on tape, if it was uh
[45:52] taped before the attacks or if that was
[45:54] taped before the attacks as well. It's
[45:56] something that I'm sure will shake out
[45:57] and hopefully in the next couple days.
[46:00] Well, Russ, I want to raise this uh
[46:02] gently but directly uh that since
[46:05] Washington is continuing to raise the
[46:07] question of whether the man who appeared
[46:09] in these two television appearances
[46:11] could conceivably be a double of Saddam
[46:13] Hussein, one would have to at least
[46:15] raise uh the possibility that what the
[46:18] however intelligence thought they saw
[46:21] Saddam Hussein in this bunker that was
[46:22] hit, you have to also raise the question
[46:25] that that could have been a double and
[46:26] the intelligence could be based on a
[46:29] double. If you're going to raise it one
[46:31] way about the television appearance, it
[46:33] seems fair to at least raise the
[46:35] question, well, maybe the intelligence
[46:37] was based on seeing a double and that
[46:39] Saddam Hussein was somewhere else when
[46:42] US intelligence believed that they were
[46:44] hitting him with the bunker buster.
[46:46] >> That's a very good point. And General
[46:47] Kernan, I hope you don't mind if I quote
[46:49] you again from yesterday. You he pointed
[46:51] out that Saddam Hussein is a wy fellow,
[46:53] I believe was the phrase that you used.
[46:56] He has gotten away for 12 years plus and
[46:59] has been able to elude authority. So
[47:01] he's he's very adept at doing this. So
[47:03] Dan, you rais a very good point there.
[47:05] It's certainly possible.
[47:07] >> Well, we've said it before and let's say
[47:09] it again that anybody who's been in
[47:11] Saddam's presence for any length of time
[47:13] at all. And anybody who knows anything
[47:15] about his history knows that he is the
[47:17] ultimate survivor. That it's it's deep
[47:20] in his id. It's what it's about. He was
[47:22] raised to believe and it does believe so
[47:24] deeply and passionately that if he just
[47:27] survives, he triumphs, he survives, he
[47:30] wins. And so he's constantly thinking of
[47:33] survival. Uh to speak personally, I came
[47:36] away from two interviews, one in 1990,
[47:38] just after he invaded Kuwait, and one
[47:40] fairly recently convinced that utmost in
[47:43] Saddam Hussein's mind are two things.
[47:45] one survival and secondly he dreams you
[47:48] can hoof it he dreams of leading a
[47:51] victorious Arab army through the streets
[47:54] of Jerusalem and making himself a
[47:56] modern-day Solidine. Now one of this
[47:58] past day's important war developments
[48:00] took place in Turkeykey's parliament
[48:02] after saying no to every US request for
[48:05] support and including a lot of money
[48:07] offered. The Turks finally agreed to at
[48:09] least let US war plananes cross Turkish
[48:12] airspace to reach Iraq. CBS's Alan Pizzy
[48:16] is in Kurdish controlled northern Iraq
[48:18] and he reports how that affects US war
[48:21] plans.
[48:23] >> Iraqi troops manning the front lines of
[48:25] northern Iraq seemed unconcerned about
[48:27] this morning's air strike in Baghdad.
[48:29] They strolled openly within sight of
[48:31] Kurdish guerrillas. Expectations are
[48:34] that these Iraqi troops will surrender
[48:35] once the real hostilities begin. But on
[48:38] the main road leading from Kurdish
[48:40] controlled areas to Kirkuk, they were
[48:42] seen laying landmines.
[48:44] Kurdish villages along the front lines
[48:46] are all but deserted. Most civilians
[48:48] have fled to the mountains. Fearful that
[48:51] Saddam Hussein's forces could fire
[48:52] chemical weapons at them as they did on
[48:55] villages near here in 1988. Temporary
[48:58] displacement is bearable. They say that
[49:00] means the end of Saddam. for us easier
[49:03] to welcome the war especially when we
[49:06] are confident that the war would yield
[49:09] the disappearance of the tyranny and
[49:11] dictatorship in our countries.
[49:14] >> But the northern front won't be anything
[49:16] like the push up from Kuwait. The plan
[49:18] had been for 62,000 strong armored force
[49:21] to lead the attack, but the Turkish
[49:24] parliament refused to allow US troops
[49:25] and armor to use Turkey as a base.
[49:29] Today's vote to allow use of their
[49:30] airspace means the Americans can fly an
[49:32] airborne unit to at least three
[49:34] airfields in Kurdish controlled northern
[49:36] Iraq, which would put them within
[49:38] striking distance of the oil producing
[49:40] areas and Saddam's hometown of Toree.
[49:42] Kirkook and its oil fields lie just
[49:44] beyond the ridge behind me, defended by
[49:47] regular Iraqi army units and at least an
[49:49] element of the Republican Guard. And
[49:51] that could prove a problem for US troops
[49:53] who will have to move against them
[49:54] without the benefit of heavy armor. They
[49:57] will however have fierce allies eager to
[49:59] carry the fight to the Iraqis. The Kurds
[50:02] have agreed to put their forces under US
[50:04] command and they have promised not to
[50:06] make a mad dash for Kirkook and risk
[50:08] upsetting the battle plan. Alan Pizzy,
[50:11] CBS News, Northern Iraq. Now, let's put
[50:14] some perspective on that Alan Pizzy
[50:16] report before we go to some
[50:17] extraordinary recent satellite pictures.
[50:19] Uh this is an overall of the of the the
[50:22] Middle East. And the advantage of what
[50:23] the Turks finally allows the US to do is
[50:26] that aircraft from uh these aircraft
[50:28] carriers in the Mediterranean can now
[50:30] fly up here, get refueled over Turkey
[50:33] and increase considerably uh their time
[50:35] over targets uh in Iraq, whereas
[50:38] previously they had to do a big loop
[50:40] down here and then come up this way. Now
[50:42] the Turks have not at least not yet said
[50:44] they will allow ground troops in Turkey.
[50:47] And um earlier this evening, CBS News's
[50:50] David Martin reported uh that uh some uh
[50:54] airborne unit, some US airborne unit uh
[50:58] had uh come in to this general area.
[51:01] This is the general area of the Kurds, a
[51:03] very general area there. Now, we have no
[51:05] other information on this. There's been
[51:07] u absolutely nothing else said about it.
[51:10] David Martin made it clear that they
[51:12] this airborne unit whatever it was and
[51:15] however large it was uh did was there
[51:18] one to secure at least one airfield and
[51:21] perhaps more and two to keep the Kurds
[51:23] who are combination of Sunni and Shiite
[51:26] Muslims would have a different ethnic
[51:27] mix than the Sunni Muslims who are
[51:30] centered here and the Shiites down here
[51:32] but to keep the Kurds uh and uh the
[51:36] other Iraqis from fighting and also to
[51:38] keep uh if we can uh the Turks from
[51:42] moving into this area. It's a very
[51:43] complicated situation up there and so we
[51:45] may learn more as the hours go by of
[51:47] what airborne unit is up in that area
[51:49] where you just heard that report from
[51:51] Alan Pizzy. And if you're asking
[51:52] yourself why Pizzy was dressed so
[51:54] warmly, including with a watch cap, you
[51:55] say, "Well, we had all this stuff down
[51:57] in the desert." Keep in mind he's up
[51:59] north uh where there is a mountainous
[52:01] region there that these mountains which
[52:04] loop over into Ran these this mountain
[52:06] range eventually runs into the Hindukush
[52:08] and into the Himalayas as you go on
[52:10] here. This fairly mountainous and it's
[52:11] fairly cool up there and that's the
[52:13] reason that busy was dressed that way.
[52:14] Now we have this extraordinary recent
[52:16] satellite photograph that shows how the
[52:19] Iraqis have begun to prepare defenses in
[52:21] the northern part of the country roughly
[52:23] where Alan Pizzy just reported from.
[52:25] These pictures are taken from 200 miles
[52:28] up in space. Let me pause and let you
[52:30] absorb that. And they show the oil rich
[52:32] region in the Kurdish part of northern
[52:35] Iraq. The pictures confirm reports from
[52:37] refugees in the last few days that
[52:39] Saddam Hussein's forces have indeed been
[52:41] beefing up defenses around the oil rich
[52:44] city of Kirup. We zoom down now. We can
[52:48] see the major west highway leading to
[52:51] Kiroot. And if you look carefully to the
[52:54] right of the highway, you can see thin
[52:56] dark areas. See them there? Which are
[52:59] trenches filled with oil right along the
[53:01] side of the road. Now, our estimate is
[53:04] they're about 60 ft long and 6 ft wide.
[53:06] These trenches, see them, the black
[53:08] areas just to the right of the road. The
[53:10] Iraqis believe that by setting those
[53:12] trenches on fire, they can at least
[53:15] screen some of their infantry and tanks
[53:17] from attack and might be able to confuse
[53:20] even the sophisticated US missile
[53:22] systems. Though American military
[53:24] officials tell us that that is highly
[53:26] unl unlikely. So with those satellite
[53:28] pictures in mind, let's talk to General
[53:30] Buck Hernand about the oil fields. This
[53:32] isn't the first time the Iraqis have
[53:34] filled trenches like that with oil. They
[53:36] did pretty much the same thing and set
[53:37] them on fire in the 1991 first go for.
[53:40] >> That's correct, Dan. In addition to
[53:42] that, of course, they set off the they
[53:44] they started the oil fields on fire
[53:45] themselves. It's an environmental
[53:47] condition much like what we saw already
[53:49] with the uh the dust conditions. It is a
[53:52] it is something we're going to have to
[53:53] deal with. It it does obscure the
[53:55] battlefield somewhat, but it does not
[53:58] does not defeat by any means our
[54:00] precision munitions. These are now
[54:02] global positioning satellit directed
[54:04] munitions. Uh unlike before where they
[54:07] where we had to las them and they did
[54:09] obscure the lays, these these munitions
[54:12] now are very precise using satellite uh
[54:15] information to go right onto the target.
[54:17] >> Let me raise a point. You say that the
[54:19] setting these oil trenches on fire would
[54:21] be pretty much a non-factor. Is that too
[54:24] strong?
[54:24] >> No, it's not. It's not a non-factor. It
[54:26] obviously much like what we saw when we
[54:28] were talking with John Roberts a few
[54:29] minutes ago. Uh dust can dust can slow
[54:32] your rate of advance. It can keep you
[54:34] from seeing your your other forces on
[54:36] the battlefield. It does have a a
[54:39] certain degrading effect. And the smoke
[54:41] from the fires would have the same
[54:42] thing. But we have we have sensors,
[54:45] night vision uh systems and infrared
[54:48] systems that allow us to penetrate that
[54:50] >> question. The oil won't do it, but the
[54:52] sand, the kind of sandstorm we sent down
[54:54] the in the bottom part of of Iraq that
[54:57] we saw earlier to the outside
[54:59] unpracticed unnowledgeable non-military
[55:03] mind. So much of our armaments uh depend
[55:06] on lenses. They depend on opic optics
[55:09] for their targeting. Uh, is it or is it
[55:12] not true that the sand in addition to
[55:15] fouling up, gumming up such equipment as
[55:17] helicopters, could put small pits on
[55:20] some of those optics, whether you're
[55:22] talking about uh ground weaponry or
[55:24] aerial weaponry, and possibly throw them
[55:26] off just a little and therefore not hit
[55:29] their proper targets
[55:30] >> possibly. But, uh, I mean, this this
[55:32] sand has an impact on just about
[55:34] everything. In particular, things like
[55:35] helicopter blades, it has an erosion
[55:38] erosion effect. Anybody who's driven
[55:39] down a country road behind another
[55:41] vehicle uh has experienced that. Well,
[55:44] magnify that 10 20fold because this is
[55:47] like fine talcum powder. It's
[55:49] everywhere. It gets into everything.
[55:51] >> Thank you, General. Quickly, we're going
[55:52] to go uh to Jim Axelrod. Uh Jim Axelrod
[55:57] was among the first to cross into Iraq
[56:00] with the third infantry division of the
[56:02] US Army. And Axelrod has been with him.
[56:05] And here's here's his report.
[56:08] This is Jim Axelrod reporting from
[56:10] several miles inside Iraq. We are with
[56:12] the lead security elements of the Third
[56:15] Infantry Division. The main body of the
[56:18] Third Infantry Division is now crossing
[56:20] into Iraq. Those are the main uh army
[56:24] ground force troops. They are now
[56:26] crossing into Iraq. We can confirm it.
[56:28] It is just about 6:00 in the morning
[56:31] Iraq time. We have been here for several
[56:33] hours. We came across with a security
[56:36] force that is uh paving the way, if you
[56:38] will, for the third infantry division to
[56:40] come across uh securing the roads,
[56:43] sweeping them, proofing them for mines,
[56:45] that sort of thing. When we came across
[56:47] at the border, just before midnight last
[56:50] night, uh local time, there was a huge
[56:53] construction project going on. the kind
[56:55] of thing uh the kind of road crew you
[56:57] might see uh on a summer Sunday on the
[56:59] way to the beach, the kind of crew that
[57:01] takes an hour's drive and turns it into
[57:03] an all day affair. They were po poised
[57:06] at the border uh constructing, if you
[57:09] will, a road or a wide expansive uh road
[57:13] for the third infantry division, some
[57:15] 10,000 vehicles to make the trip. Once
[57:18] in, we have some tape that we want to
[57:20] show you. We saw almost immediately an
[57:23] Iraqi observation post which an American
[57:27] soldier uh says uh was hit by a round
[57:30] from a tank and four Iraqis were killed.
[57:33] As we drove by, we saw the observation
[57:35] post on fire. Uh we saw several uh
[57:39] carcasses, if you will, of T-55 tanks.
[57:43] Those are obviously left over from
[57:44] Desert Storm some 12 years ago on the uh
[57:47] on the side of the road. Uh several
[57:49] American uh soldiers were also engaged
[57:52] in in what looked like uh with a car
[57:54] with a vehicle. Uh some Iraqis, we have
[57:57] some pictures of that as well. These are
[57:59] the kinds of images we saw on the uh
[58:02] drive in. Also, an oil field seemed to
[58:04] be uh secured as well. Uh once here,
[58:08] once in this area, we can't be more
[58:10] specific about exactly uh where we are,
[58:13] but once here, we had a chance to talk
[58:15] to several American soldiers. And uh
[58:18] this is what the conversations uh
[58:20] sounded like.
[58:21] >> What's the thing that is most sort of
[58:23] clear in your mind about the actual
[58:26] drive across?
[58:28] >> Uh
[58:29] this isn't just another training
[58:31] exercise. This is a real thing.
[58:33] >> I was a little nervous at first, but
[58:35] then I know America will take over. I'll
[58:37] talk, you know.
[58:39] >> You were a little nervous.
[58:40] >> Yes.
[58:42] >> How's that? Talking
[58:44] >> about being nervous. Oh man, I'm scared
[58:46] a little man cuz they got the chemical
[58:48] weapons and things. That's the only
[58:50] thing I'm really scared of.
[58:52] >> Was it any different when it was for
[58:55] real than the dozens if not hundreds of
[58:58] times you've done this during training?
[59:00] >> Oh yeah, the adrenaline was pumping. Uh
[59:02] was a lot more exciting. The uh it's
[59:06] just an allgether new experience.
[59:09] So again, we've now been here for uh
[59:12] several hours uh again with this main
[59:14] security force that is uh making the
[59:17] area, the road safe and secure for
[59:19] passage by the uh third infantry
[59:22] division uh which will occur throughout
[59:24] the course of the day as the American
[59:26] ground troops move from northern Kuwait
[59:28] into southern Iraq and begin to make
[59:31] their push northward. Jim Axelrod, CBS
[59:34] News, Iraq.
[59:37] >> And the third infantry division, its
[59:39] lead elements are now reported to be
[59:41] somewhere between 90 and 100 miles deep
[59:44] into Iraq. Now, if you keep in mind that
[59:46] it's uh roughly about 300 miles, check
[59:49] me if I'm wrong here, General. About 300
[59:51] miles to Baghdad that they're already uh
[59:54] about 13 of the way to Baghdad. That's
[59:57] not to suggest that they can necessarily
[59:59] keep up this pace. Uh but uh they're
[60:02] driving uh and in their own way singing
[60:05] the Roger Miller tune, King of the Road.
[60:08] Uh next stop for them outskirts of
[60:10] Baghdad. If it continues to go this way,
[60:12] John Roberts is rolling ever deeper
[60:14] inside Iraq uh with the US Marines. And
[60:18] John, uh as we look at the map here, uh
[60:21] I don't know that you can tell us how
[60:22] deep you are in Iraq. Uh we're seeing
[60:25] the three-pronged attack. uh the US
[60:28] Marines uh basically in the middle
[60:31] there. Some of the British forces are in
[60:32] the west, but also some are approaching
[60:34] Bazra uh the port of Bazra tonight, the
[60:37] British forces. But John, uh as you go
[60:39] ever deep into Iraq, has there been any
[60:41] contact with the Marines? Any
[60:43] firefights, anything of that? Are you
[60:44] still rolling through that old graveyard
[60:46] of uh Gulf War I relics?
[60:52] Dan, there there has been nothing that
[60:54] we have seen other than just relics of,
[60:56] as you said, uh Gulf War. Uh there has
[60:59] been no contact with Iraqi troops. Uh
[61:02] there has been no sighting of Iraqi
[61:03] personnel. Uh if it's just uh the first
[61:06] marine division, in particular, the
[61:08] second light armored reconnaissance
[61:10] battalion out here in the desert almost
[61:11] all by itself. And you talk about
[61:13] getting deeper in the desert. We're
[61:14] getting deeper in the sand, it would
[61:16] seem. Uh the uh the road that we're on
[61:18] is a particularly bad one now. Very,
[61:20] very deep with sand. But you dare not
[61:22] stray off the road though for the fear
[61:24] of landmines. So you you have to stay in
[61:25] these ruts. Uh even though some of them
[61:27] will uh will test the ground clearance
[61:29] on a Hummer. And uh Dan, I I was
[61:31] remissed when I was wheeling around our
[61:33] inside cameras here. I forgot to mention
[61:35] a a critical member of our our personnel
[61:38] and I know that the shot isn't great
[61:39] because he's very backlit. Patrick
[61:41] Starling, our UK engineer who helped put
[61:43] this all together. Dan
[61:44] >> John Roberts live with the US Marines in
[61:47] Iraq rolling toward Baghdad. Finally,
[61:49] tonight we turn once more to the ancient
[61:52] capital of Baghdad. This is a live
[61:54] picture of the city of this hour, Iraq's
[61:57] capital, a city under siege, a city in
[62:00] the early morning hours, eerily quiet,
[62:03] and a city haunted by uncertainty. It is
[62:06] not known what has become of the
[62:07] country's president, Saddam Hussein. It
[62:09] is not known what has become of his
[62:11] family and the rest of his inner circle.
[62:13] There are reports that some of his most
[62:16] elite troops may be negotiating
[62:18] surrender. All this as US-led forces
[62:22] roll northward from Kuwait closer, ever
[62:24] closer every hour to Baghdad and the
[62:27] next phase of this war.
[62:31] Stay tuned for more of our CBS
[62:32] continuing coverage of America at war.
[62:35] For now, Dan Rather at CBS News World
[62:38] Headquarters in New York, wishing you a
[62:41] good night.
[63:01] It is now 2 a.m. in the east, midnight
[63:04] mountain time. This is CBS News coverage
[63:06] of America at War on Up to the Minute.
[63:08] I'm Melissa McDermott. And here's what's
[63:09] happening at this hour. A US Marine
[63:11] helicopter has crashed in Kuwait. The
[63:14] Pentagon says there were 12 British and
[63:16] four American soldiers on board. There
[63:19] are no survivors. The cause of the crash
[63:21] is under investigation. US Marines and
[63:23] British forces crossed into Iraq
[63:25] Thursday. Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
[63:28] characterizes the war as going very
[63:30] well, but world reaction to events in
[63:33] Iraq is mostly negative.
[63:39] In San Francisco, police made more than
[63:41] a thousand arrests. Hundreds of
[63:43] thousands of protesters marched on
[63:44] American embassies in Athens, Paris,
[63:46] Moscow, and other cities.
[63:50] It looks like the Baghdad attack aimed
[63:52] at Saddam Hussein might have been on
[63:54] target.
[64:02] US intelligence experts believe the
[64:04] Iraqi leader and perhaps two of his sons
[64:07] were inside the compound when cruise
[64:09] missiles and then a bunker busting bomb
[64:12] struck. Now, it's not clear yet if they
[64:14] are dead or alive.
[64:21] >> Analysts are now taking a close look at
[64:23] a video tape purportedly showing Saddam
[64:25] on Iraqi television after the attack.
[64:28] Now, if Saddam is still alive, US
[64:30] officials hope the surprise attack has
[64:32] thrown him off balance and weakened his
[64:35] trust in his inner circle.
[64:38] >> In other developments, the Reuters news
[64:39] agency is reporting the Third Infantry
[64:41] Division has advanced about 90 miles
[64:43] inside Iraq this morning. Reuters says
[64:46] the convoy has not come under fire since
[64:48] starting its advance.