The O'Reilly Factor (FNC) - 2006-11-21 - 1 of 2

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[0:12] The O'Reilly factor is on tonight. Days

[0:14] after her young son vanished, Melinda

[0:16] Ducket took the heat in a Nancy Grace

[0:19] interview, then killed herself. Now her

[0:21] family is suing CNN. We'll have the

[0:24] story. Polygamous leader Warren Jeffs

[0:27] faces accuser in court today. We'll have

[0:30] details of the teen bride's shocking

[0:32] testimony.

[0:34] >> I'm not a racist. That's what's so

[0:36] insane about this. I don't And yet it's

[0:40] said it comes through. It fires out of

[0:43] me. And a bizarre apology from comedian

[0:46] Michael Richards over his racist

[0:48] remarks. Caution. You're about to enter

[0:51] the no spin zone. The factor begins

[0:53] right now.

[1:03] Hi, I'm John Kasich reporting tonight

[1:05] for Bill O'Reilly. Bill's on vacation.

[1:07] We want to thank you for watching us.

[1:09] Ahead on the factor, all across the

[1:11] country, nursing mothers out in force at

[1:13] airports today to protest Delta Airlines

[1:16] for kicking one woman off of a flight.

[1:19] Officials say she was breastfeeding too

[1:21] openly. But these moms obviously have

[1:24] something to say about it. We're going

[1:25] to have the debate. And then on the

[1:27] heels of an incoherent racist rant at a

[1:30] Los Angeles comedy club, Michael

[1:32] Richards of Seinfeld fame makes a very

[1:35] bizarre appearance on late night TV.

[1:38] I'm deeply deeply sorry. And

[1:43] um I've got I I'll get to the force

[1:48] field of this hostility.

[1:51] why it's there, why the rage is in any

[1:53] of us.

[1:54] >> H more on that coming up. But first, our

[1:57] top story. The family of 21-year-old

[1:59] Melinda Duckett files a wrongful death

[2:02] lawsuit against CNN. You may remember

[2:04] Melinda was interviewed by Nancy Grace

[2:06] after her son Trenton vanished. The

[2:09] questioning got pretty tough.

[2:11] >> Why aren't aren't you telling us where

[2:13] you were that day? You were the last

[2:15] person to be seen with him.

[2:17] >> And we've already gone out and

[2:18] distributed the fires and stuff,

[2:19] >> right? Why aren't you telling us and

[2:21] giving us a clear picture where you were

[2:23] before your son was kidnapped?

[2:25] >> Because I'm not going to put those kind

[2:26] of details out.

[2:27] >> Why?

[2:29] >> Because I was told not to.

[2:33] >> Miss Ducket,

[2:35] you're not telling us for a reason. What

[2:39] is the reason? You refuse to give him

[2:41] the simplest facts of where you were

[2:43] with your son before he went missing.

[2:45] >> The next day, Melinda killed herself.

[2:47] And since that time, suspicions about

[2:49] her son's disappearance has fallen on

[2:52] her. Joining us now from Miami, Jay Paul

[2:55] Deritani, the attorney for Melinda's

[2:57] parents and her estate. Jay, if you

[2:59] could quickly sum up why you think you

[3:01] have a case here, what's it based upon?

[3:04] Well, John, it's based upon three

[3:06] factors. It's not simply the words that

[3:10] uh uh Nancy Grace used that day. It's

[3:13] the fact that she misled Melinda into

[3:16] going on the show. At least that's our

[3:18] allegation at this point in our witness

[3:20] testimony, I believe, will prove that

[3:22] out. Basically, Melinda was told to come

[3:24] on the show to showcase the fact that

[3:27] Trenton was missing and hopefully to

[3:30] elicit from the public uh uh the support

[3:33] in trying to find Trenton. Secondly,

[3:36] Nancy Grace had specific knowledge that

[3:39] Melinda was in a a fragile condition.

[3:41] And it's obvious from the tape that she

[3:44] is a distraught mother. And yet she

[3:46] continued to barrage with questions even

[3:49] after as just as you just played that

[3:50] tape. Even after uh Melinda simply said,

[3:54] "Well, uh we're talking about the

[3:55] flyers. I'm trying what's the third

[3:57] what's the third one, Jay?"

[3:59] >> Well, and the words. So, you combine the

[4:01] words with the knowledge of Nancy Grace

[4:04] and uh the the deception or or failure

[4:07] to to properly ask or identify what uh

[4:12] she was going on the show for.

[4:13] >> All right. All right. I think we got to

[4:14] that. But here here's the thing. Who the

[4:17] who thinks they're going to go on Nancy

[4:19] Grace's show and it's going to be some

[4:21] kind of a controlled environment? I

[4:23] mean, Nancy Grace is known for having

[4:25] volatile interviews. You know, that's

[4:27] that's frankly that's why people watch

[4:29] her. So, what what was the surprising

[4:32] aspect of that?

[4:34] >> Well, first of all, it's not you or I.

[4:36] It's not a congressman. Uh it's not a

[4:38] lawyer. This is a 21-year-old kid. I

[4:41] don't know what Melinda knew, but the

[4:42] bottom line was the producers and and

[4:45] she represented to Melinda that they

[4:48] were going on the show for a different

[4:49] reason.

[4:49] >> Well, we're not we're not sure about

[4:50] that, Jay. But listen, I just in that

[4:52] little sound bite that we just heard

[4:54] from Nancy Grace, she's asking Miss Mrs.

[4:57] Duck it. She's saying, "Where were you?"

[5:00] I mean, I don't know what's what's so

[5:01] tough about that question. What did you

[5:03] do the day that your son and she even

[5:05] said when your son was kidnapped? She

[5:07] didn't allege anything. She just said,

[5:09] "Tell us the details of what was going

[5:11] on." I don't know how the heck you have

[5:13] a lawsuit because you got a TV

[5:15] commentator asking a question that

[5:18] everybody, frankly, is asking.

[5:20] >> Oh, come on. She's not simply ask she's

[5:24] not asking her uh where she is. She's

[5:27] implying and she says it uh we want to

[5:30] know more information. That last

[5:31] statement there is is implying that

[5:34] Melinda harmed her son. We think

[5:36] something more is going on. Whatever the

[5:38] exact words were that she and Melinda,

[5:41] she has knowledge that Melinda is a

[5:43] distraught mother going on that show.

[5:45] So, you have a 21-year-old kid who's

[5:48] going on that show and is not told why

[5:51] she's going on.

[5:52] >> Well, look, I mean, I I just Nobody

[5:54] today in this modern world, anybody that

[5:56] has a television set in cable TV knows

[5:59] that when you go into an interview, you

[6:01] you don't really know what's coming and

[6:03] you know, you're going to be asked some

[6:04] tough questions, especially if your kid

[6:06] disappears. Now, if you look at the

[6:07] suicide note that Miss Ducket uh that

[6:11] she wrote, there was no mention of Nancy

[6:13] Grace. There was no mention of CNN. Her

[6:16] husband doesn't think that Nancy Grace

[6:18] contributed to this suicide. So why

[6:22] would you guys think that that she did?

[6:24] >> Well, based upon the circumstances that

[6:26] occurred, based upon the stress that she

[6:28] was under, she'd committed suicide,

[6:31] John, within a day of that interview.

[6:33] >> But is it possible that because of that

[6:35] interview, and I'm not alleging

[6:36] anything, I just know she remains a top

[6:38] suspect. Is it possible that because of

[6:41] that interview, she realized there's no

[6:43] way out? She can't answer these

[6:45] questions. And maybe she said, you know,

[6:47] there I have no way out, so I'm going to

[6:49] take my own life. Isn't that possible

[6:51] here?

[6:52] >> Sir, anything's possible. We're simply

[6:55] but we're saying, wait, and what we're

[6:57] saying is that's one factor. Uh we we

[7:00] don't have to allege in a complaint uh

[7:03] that it's uh the only factor that caused

[7:05] her death, but certainly what we believe

[7:07] is that uh the interview and Nancy

[7:09] Grace's conduct in combination with

[7:12] failing to tell her the basis of the

[7:14] show when she's a 21-year-old distraught

[7:16] mother going that Jay. I I I think

[7:19] that's I just think that's a thin deal.

[7:22] Let me ask you this. Do you really do

[7:24] you think that CNN just might want to

[7:26] settle this? Is this why this suit was

[7:27] brought?

[7:29] No, it wasn't brought for that. And the

[7:31] parents are prepared to go all the way

[7:33] with this lawsuit.

[7:35] >> Certainly, they've had two months to

[7:36] make an apology. And by the way, the

[7:38] lawsuit isn't simply based upon that

[7:40] interview. For two months, they have

[7:42] aired this interview over and over.

[7:45] >> Well, that's a different issue of

[7:46] sensitivity. But you know, Jay, you

[7:47] didn't really know what you were going

[7:48] to get from me when you came on here,

[7:50] but you know, when you come on the

[7:51] Factor, you're going to get some tough

[7:53] questions. And I think the same thing

[7:54] happens when you go on a show like Nancy

[7:56] Grace. But Jay, it's good to hear from

[7:58] you. We'll keep a prize of this. Next,

[8:00] compelling courtroom testimony by young

[8:02] women trapped in the polygamous

[8:04] lifestyle. Is this enough to sink Warren

[8:07] Jeffs? We'll look at it when we come

[8:09] back.

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[10:23] >> on the O'Reilly factor. Plus, he was

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[10:27] former wrestler fighting mad at the

[10:28] butcher of Baghdad on Hannity and Cole?

[10:31] Tomorrow, a college co-ed disappears

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[10:40] cold case. Tomorrow, don't miss when

[10:42] Greta Vanostrin hosts Crime Scene:

[10:44] Murder in the Heartland.

[10:48] In the unresolved problem segment

[10:50] tonight, polygamous leader Warren Jeffs

[10:51] faces his accuser in a Utah courtroom

[10:54] today. He's charged as an accomplice to

[10:56] rape for allegedly forcing a 14-year-old

[10:59] girl to marry her cousin. Jane Doe,

[11:02] who's now 20, took the stand today and

[11:04] so did her older sister.

[11:06] >> She was crying and she'd say, "I don't

[11:08] care. I don't want to be married." and

[11:12] we

[11:13] still were informed that we had to do

[11:15] this. And so

[11:19] my mother had just decided that we would

[11:21] go ahead and get this dress sewn. And

[11:25] even while we were sewing it and and we

[11:28] would try it on her and she would just

[11:29] be crying and crying. God,

[11:32] >> it's just unbelievable. Joining us now

[11:33] from outside the courthouse in St.

[11:35] George, Utah, Carol McKinley. And from

[11:37] Minneapolis, former head of the sex

[11:39] crimes unit in Salt Lake City, Greg

[11:41] Scortis. All right, Carol, let let's uh

[11:44] let's start with you. U tell us about

[11:46] what went on in that courtroom today.

[11:48] This um this girl at the time was 14

[11:51] years old. She's now 20. Tell us about

[11:53] her testimony.

[11:56] >> Well, her testimony was riveting. In

[11:58] fact, we're all listening in there and

[11:59] you can hardly keep from from listening

[12:02] to her. It's hard to leave the room

[12:03] because she cries, her voice is

[12:05] trembling. Uh she's she's been in there

[12:07] for about 4 hours and she never wavers

[12:10] even though she admits she's very

[12:12] nervous. And she talks about how she

[12:14] grew up in this culture. Uh her mother

[12:17] uh lost their father because the father

[12:19] had uh had been kicked out of the

[12:20] church. So she was reassigned to another

[12:22] man during all this. When she turned 14,

[12:25] she's told it's her turn to get married.

[12:28] She breaks down when she talks about how

[12:30] she finds out that her partner is to be

[12:32] her first cousin. She says it was the

[12:35] worst night of her life, the night

[12:36] before she got married. She talks about

[12:38] how tough it was to have marital

[12:41] relations. In other words, to have sex

[12:42] with this man at the age of 14 when she

[12:45] didn't even know what it was about. Uh

[12:47] now Warren Jeffs is in the courtroom

[12:49] just feet away from her. This is the man

[12:51] who was God's mouthpiece to her. He's

[12:54] staring at her sometimes with a gentle

[12:57] smile on his face. There are 12 men

[13:00] behind him in support of him, all

[13:02] dressed in suits, who have 40 wives

[13:04] between them. That's how the courtroom

[13:06] is. Very intimidating for this woman,

[13:08] but at 20 years old and very pregnant,

[13:10] by the way, herself today, she's holding

[13:13] up well. John

[13:14] >> Carol, let's talk a little bit about

[13:16] Warren Jeffs. You know, he's um you

[13:19] know, look, I I I can't prejudge it, at

[13:21] least not on the air. I got thoughts, my

[13:23] own thoughts in my head about the about

[13:26] some of the viciousness that have that

[13:28] has been reported about what's gone on

[13:29] in this uh in this uh cult. Um tell us

[13:34] about the way in which he looked at her,

[13:36] how he tried to intimidate her in the

[13:38] courtroom, the fact that he had these

[13:40] people standing behind her and the

[13:42] intimidation that has occurred outside

[13:44] the courtroom.

[13:46] >> Well, you know, her family's not in

[13:49] there. Her two sisters have testified,

[13:50] but they're not actually in the

[13:52] courtroom for her. Although there are

[13:54] investigators on the side who've worked

[13:56] very closely with her who are there to

[13:58] to let her know that that what she's

[14:00] doing is to them the right thing. Uh

[14:03] outside the courtroom, they've kept her

[14:05] under wraps. We uh we haven't known her

[14:07] name until today. Uh we won't reveal it

[14:10] today, but it's been very hard for her.

[14:12] Again, in the courtroom, you've got this

[14:14] entourage of Warren and Jeff sitting

[14:16] there. Um, these men have about 40 wives

[14:19] between them. That's the culture. They

[14:21] didn't ask any women to come along. Um,

[14:24] Warren Jeffs is very thin right now.

[14:26] He's been in uh in jail since about

[14:28] August or so, looking gaunt, but still

[14:32] very um I would say humble and and many

[14:35] of his uh people who followed him before

[14:37] but think he's a phony now say it's all

[14:39] just an act. And really on the inside,

[14:41] he can't wait to get back out of there.

[14:43] Greg, apparently the sister's testimony,

[14:45] and by the way, she was 19. She married

[14:47] 83-year-old Rulon Jeffs, who used to run

[14:50] the sect before this guy took over. Uh

[14:54] they they described her testimony as

[14:56] very compelling cuz she could

[14:58] corroborate uh what her sister, younger

[15:01] sister said. How critical is this

[15:04] testimony from the sister?

[15:07] Anytime you have a case involving a sex

[15:09] crime where you have uh competing

[15:11] versions on what happened, uh

[15:13] cooperation is critical. And in this

[15:15] case, it's very important because it

[15:17] tends to corroborate the the notion that

[15:19] the victim, her younger sister, was

[15:21] concerned and objected and fought about

[15:24] this whole thing from the very beginning

[15:26] that she called her sister and said,

[15:27] "Hey, I don't want to marry this man. I

[15:29] don't want to engage in this. I don't

[15:30] want to be part of this. Uh can you help

[15:32] me get out of this?" And in fact,

[15:33] Warren, who was uh uh her husband's son,

[15:37] if you believe it or not, the sister's

[15:39] was the sister was married to Warren's

[15:41] uh father, um encouraged her to

[15:44] encourage her sister to go ahead with

[15:45] this marriage.

[15:46] >> These charges that they have against

[15:48] them. You know, he was the FBI 10 most

[15:51] wanted. Is this charge serious enough to

[15:54] lock him up? Put this into perspective

[15:57] for us.

[15:59] Rape in Utah carries a term of

[16:01] imprisonment of five to life. And as an

[16:03] accessory to rape, he's as guilty as the

[16:06] the rapist himself, so to speak. It's

[16:08] the same as an armed robber who while

[16:10] there may be robbers who go inside the

[16:12] store and do the robbery, if you've got

[16:13] somebody out in the car doing the

[16:14] driving or someone who's back home

[16:16] planning it, they're absolutely just as

[16:18] guilty. And in Utah, rape uh carries

[16:21] five to life. Our board of pardons would

[16:23] certainly put him away for a long time.

[16:25] Carol, you know, in watching this young

[16:27] lady studying her there, obviously the

[16:29] defense is going to attempt to just

[16:31] shake her testimony to try to bring her

[16:34] down. Your gut in terms of whether a

[16:37] 20-year-old is tough enough to face an

[16:39] entire community.

[16:42] >> Well, the defense team is a man and a

[16:44] woman, and the woman is the one who's

[16:46] doing the questioning uh in the

[16:48] courtroom right now. And um as far as

[16:50] shaking down an entire community, I

[16:52] believe this woman, from what I've seen

[16:53] today, even though she's nervous and her

[16:56] voice is trembling, she's coming across

[16:58] as someone who's credible, not someone

[17:00] who's overprepared or slick, John. And

[17:02] that could make a huge difference. The

[17:04] defense is trying to discredit her by

[17:06] showing her pictures of her former

[17:08] husband, saying, "Hey, you're smiling

[17:09] here. You're holding his hand. Just how

[17:11] miserable were you really?" And she's

[17:13] coming back with very good, very logical

[17:16] answers. So if this is any indicica

[17:18] indication of how a trial would be, I

[17:20] believe this woman will hold up well

[17:22] even though she's only 20 years old.

[17:24] >> Greg, Greg, they are going to try to say

[17:26] that this is an attack on their

[17:28] religion.

[17:29] It that's not going to hold up. Is it as

[17:31] an excuse if in fact they find out he

[17:34] ordered this?

[17:36] Well, what they're going to say is not

[17:37] that he ordered it, but that he that he

[17:39] felt it was ordained, that he did this

[17:41] because he felt that he had the

[17:42] authority to do that. Not because he was

[17:44] trying to get a 19 and a 14-year-old to

[17:47] have sex without anyone's consent, but

[17:49] that he really and honestly and and

[17:51] faithfully, I guess, believed that what

[17:53] he was doing was the right thing and

[17:54] counseledled her that what she was doing

[17:56] therefore was the right thing. And if

[17:58] that's the case, then I guess you could

[17:59] argue that his religion is on attack.

[18:01] >> That's ridiculous. But Greg, is this

[18:03] going to trial quickly? Oh, this case is

[18:06] going to trial.

[18:06] >> All right, Carol, Greg, thank you both

[18:08] very much. Coming up, the war on

[18:10] Christmas meets the Supreme Court. Megan

[18:13] Kendall will tell us what's going on.

[18:14] And later, they went to breastfeed their

[18:17] babies on airplanes and they are out in

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[18:20] to talk to one of the mothers involved

[18:22] in today's airport nurse in directly

[18:25] ahead.

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[21:44] >> In the culture war segment tonight, the

[21:46] war on Christmas hits the Supreme Court.

[21:48] Today, the court is reviewing a petition

[21:50] challenging New York City's ban of the

[21:52] nativity scene in public schools. Well,

[21:55] Manores and the Star and Crescent,

[21:57] they're allowed, but no nativity scenes.

[22:00] The high court announces Friday whether

[22:02] it will hear the case. Megan Kendall

[22:04] joins us now from Washington. Well,

[22:06] Megan, for me, I I'm just getting tired

[22:08] of this stuff. Now, is the Supreme Court

[22:11] going to hear this case is the first

[22:13] question, of course.

[22:14] >> Well, we don't know. They looked at it

[22:16] today. They were scheduled to look at it

[22:17] today. No one knows for sure what they

[22:18] do in that private conference, but they

[22:20] were scheduled to look at it today.

[22:21] Could have gotten a decision today. We

[22:22] didn't. We expect now sometime this week

[22:24] or probably more likely Monday or next

[22:26] week. Uh, but I got to tell you, John,

[22:28] even though they just decided a couple

[22:31] of First Amendment religion cases, you

[22:33] recall those infamous Ten Commandments

[22:34] cases back in 2005, uh, pretty pretty

[22:37] recently, uh, my own bet is that now

[22:40] they've got these four solid

[22:41] conservatives on the court. They only

[22:42] need four to take the case. It's

[22:44] probably I I wouldn't bet against them

[22:46] taking it. Let me put it that way.

[22:47] >> Yeah. And Megan, the the question is now

[22:50] with Alioto going on the court and and

[22:52] let's not forget one thing about George

[22:54] Bush. his greatest legacy is ultimately

[22:57] going to be, I think, the appointments

[22:59] that he's made to these in these

[23:00] judgeships and this in this Supreme

[23:02] Court. Now, the swing vote will be

[23:04] Anthony Kennedy on any of these

[23:06] religious questions. My understanding is

[23:08] he's sort of gone both ways. How do you

[23:10] see the court breaking down? Well, I

[23:13] think if the court does take it and this

[23:14] case goes up and of course there are

[23:16] lots of things that could happen between

[23:17] now and then in terms of the arguments,

[23:18] but if they vote along ideological lines

[23:20] and you get the four conservatives, you

[23:22] know, from Alo and Scalia and Roberts uh

[23:24] and Thomas one way, then it could come

[23:27] down to Kennedy. And in those Ten

[23:28] Commandments cases, Kennedy refused to

[23:31] join with the court's four liberal

[23:32] justices uh in striking down this one

[23:35] display based on their reasoning. I

[23:37] mean, he he sort of charted his own

[23:38] course, I think, in this case and many

[23:41] other cases this term. and and for many

[23:42] terms to come, John, we're going to see

[23:44] Kennedy chart his own course and sort of

[23:46] be the decisive voter.

[23:47] >> That's what I that's what I think,

[23:48] Megan. Now, you know what I don't

[23:50] understand is okay, so you got the

[23:51] manora religious symbol, you got the the

[23:54] crescent religious symbol, you got a

[23:56] Christmas tree. Okay, so here this

[23:59] family says, "We'd like to have a crash.

[24:01] We'd like to have a, you know, a manger

[24:02] scene." The and the school says, "No." I

[24:05] mean, why?

[24:06] >> Well, here's what the school said. The

[24:07] school said, "Look, we we don't want the

[24:09] nativity scene because to us that seems

[24:11] overtly religious."

[24:13] Jesus Well, and and they didn't think

[24:15] that was true with the minora. And they

[24:16] cited some Supreme Court precedent

[24:18] suggesting that the monora had both

[24:20] secular and religious purposes. That was

[24:22] their argument in the lower court.

[24:23] >> Well, you could argue that you could

[24:24] argue that the manger scene has

[24:26] historical purposes. It's a historic

[24:29] event.

[24:29] >> You could, but they didn't really go

[24:30] there. Let me tell you, but let me tell

[24:32] you what happened because the second

[24:33] circuit court of appeals, the court that

[24:34] ruled in favor of the schools, actually

[24:36] said, you know what? You're wrong. That

[24:38] second circuit court of appeals said the

[24:40] minora and the star and crescent are

[24:42] just as religious as the crush. But the

[24:45] school policy is still okay. It's still

[24:47] okay because you don't just because you

[24:49] choose religious symbols for one faith

[24:50] or or two faiths doesn't mean you have

[24:52] to choose religious symbols for all

[24:54] faith. I mean, that's just a goofy

[24:56] court. Look, that's just a goofy court,

[24:57] Megan. You know, just because a court

[24:59] rules a certain way doesn't make it

[25:01] right.

[25:02] >> That's like saying cuz congress passes a

[25:03] law that therefore it's right. Doesn't

[25:05] make it right. It may may have done it.

[25:07] >> Surprising that was the surprising thing

[25:08] about this decision. I mean, we it was

[25:09] expected that if the second circuit

[25:11] found that then they would ruled against

[25:12] the school. They didn't which may entice

[25:15] the Supreme Court to take a second.

[25:16] >> Megan, you know, look, I mean, the

[25:17] bottom line is real simple. It's real

[25:20] easy to pick on Christians. I mean, it's

[25:22] just easy in this culture today. it's

[25:24] politically correct to do it. And it's

[25:26] just a shame. And I'll tell you what

[25:28] though, with the Supreme Court changing,

[25:30] I think I'm going to predict we're going

[25:32] to see more equity. And I'm going to

[25:33] predict we're going to have more common

[25:35] sense decisions that's going to reflect

[25:37] the culture when I was a kid when God

[25:40] was not a dirty word. Megan, uh, we'll

[25:43] have to see though. Thank you for being

[25:45] with us. You're the best. Plenty more

[25:46] ahead as the Factor moves along this

[25:48] evening. Nursing moms take to the

[25:50] nation's airports to protest Delta's

[25:52] treatment of a breastfeeding mom. How

[25:54] open is too open? And then Jerry

[25:57] Seinfeld throws his support behind

[25:59] Michael Richards. But should he have

[26:00] stayed out of the mess surrounding the

[26:02] comedian's racist rant? Come on back for

[26:04] that and more.

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[29:13] In the personal story segment tonight, a

[29:15] nurse in today at the nation's airports.

[29:18] Here's what these mothers are so angry

[29:20] about. Last month, 27year-old Emily

[29:23] Gillette was on a delayed Delta flight

[29:25] breastfeeding her 22 year old

[29:28] 22month-old daughter. A flight attendant

[29:31] asked her to cover up. She refused and

[29:33] officials had her removed from the

[29:35] plane. Breastfeeding mothers came out to

[29:37] share show their solidarity today in 33

[29:41] cities. Pretty amazing. Joining us now

[29:43] from Baltimore, one of those protesters,

[29:45] Lorie Lee. And here in New York, defense

[29:47] attorney Kathleen Mullen. All right,

[29:50] Lori, let's start with you. What's

[29:52] unreasonable about a flight attendant

[29:54] saying to a nursing mom, "Hey, could you

[29:57] just cover up a little bit here?

[30:01] Well, that's not really what she said. I

[30:03] mean, what she said is, "What you're

[30:04] doing offends me." So, really, you know,

[30:06] she had a problem with breastfeeding. It

[30:08] wasn't just the issue of covering up.

[30:09] But secondly, she was breaking the law

[30:10] in the state of Vermont.

[30:11] >> But wait a minute. Wait a minute. She

[30:13] she she handed the lady a blanket and

[30:15] said, "Could you cover up?"

[30:18] >> And the mother said, "No, thank you. I'm

[30:20] fine doing what I'm doing." She was

[30:22] wearing a nursing shirt and the baby and

[30:24] the shirt were covering her breast

[30:26] completely.

[30:27] >> Okay. So in other words, you think you

[30:29] think it was a request. Okay, Kathleen,

[30:31] how do you feel about that? Here you

[30:33] have the flight attendant saying cover

[30:34] cover up. Now she she says that you know

[30:37] the breast was not exposed. I mean your

[30:38] take on this this thing.

[30:40] >> I think John that a lot there are a lot

[30:41] of things in our polite society which

[30:44] offend some people don't offend other

[30:46] people. When you are out in society and

[30:49] this woman was in an aircraft captive

[30:51] audience and what you are doing while it

[30:54] may be legal is offending someone else's

[30:56] sensibilities. I don't see what's wrong

[30:58] with a little common courtesy. How about

[31:00] some

[31:01] >> she now this lady to be fair to her. She

[31:03] was sitting the second row from the

[31:05] back. The plane had been delayed for

[31:07] over 3 hours. Okay. It's not like she

[31:10] was in you know walking around the

[31:11] plane. She was in the back of the plane.

[31:12] Could this just have been a case where,

[31:15] you know, the Look, I've been in

[31:16] airports. It drives you crazy, right?

[31:18] Where, you know, the flight attendant

[31:19] got carried away and just was angry?

[31:21] >> Well, there it very well may have been a

[31:23] case where the flight attendant was

[31:24] angry. But if what she said was, "Could

[31:26] you please cover up what you're doing is

[31:28] offending me, John? What's wrong with

[31:30] this woman saying, "Oh, I'm terribly

[31:32] sorry." and trying to be respectful of

[31:34] someone else's sensitivities. I don't

[31:36] see what's the matter with that.

[31:37] >> Lori, is this a bigger cause? I mean, we

[31:38] could talk about what happened on that

[31:40] airplane all night long and you say one

[31:42] and somebody else says another, but is

[31:44] this really a a case of where some

[31:47] people think they ought to be able to

[31:49] breastfeed in any sort of a sort of a

[31:51] circumstance while other people say,

[31:53] "I'm uncomfortable. How about some

[31:56] compromise or some common sense?"

[31:59] Uh I believe it truly is a bigger issue

[32:02] because as a matter of public policy in

[32:04] this country, we say that um

[32:05] breastfeeding rates are very low

[32:07] compared to other western nations. We

[32:09] need to increase them. And yet public

[32:11] attitudes and the experience of women

[32:14] when they go out as a new breastfeeding

[32:16] mother is that it's shameful. It's

[32:18] wrong. We don't want it around.

[32:20] Discretion is really a red herring

[32:22] because I've been doing this for years

[32:23] now, working with breastfeeding mothers.

[32:25] It's what I do as a career. And I can

[32:28] tell you that I don't know any mothers

[32:29] who go out of their way to expose their

[32:31] breasts. Everybody pretty much is

[32:32] discreet. Um, and a a child beyond the

[32:36] age of two months will not let you put a

[32:38] blanket over their head. You'll draw

[32:40] more attention to yourself because

[32:41] they'll be ripping at the blanket and

[32:42] starting to fuss at you because they

[32:43] want to look at you and they don't want

[32:45] to be suffocated under a cover.

[32:47] >> Yeah. What's important is that we say

[32:50] that we need to increase breastfeeding

[32:51] rates. So that means that

[32:53] >> nobody nobody's nobody's disagreeing

[32:55] with that. It's it's a question of look,

[32:57] you got people sitting in airports

[32:59] today. They were in Columbus today

[33:01] sitting in their protesting and I I

[33:03] don't quite get it. You know what the

[33:05] what the big hubup is? I've never seen

[33:07] anybody uh you know stand up and say

[33:09] stop breastfeeding your kid,

[33:10] >> right? Nobody is against breastfeeding.

[33:12] We're all for breastfeeding. If you want

[33:14] to breastfeed your baby, go right ahead.

[33:16] But when you are out in public, how

[33:18] about having some respect for other

[33:20] people's sensitivities that may be

[33:21] different than yours? In the video we

[33:23] just saw in the protest, there were

[33:26] women standing in the airport with their

[33:27] breasts exposed, with their babies

[33:29] breastfed.

[33:29] >> Well, I don't think that's what Lori

[33:30] wants. That's not what she's saying.

[33:32] She's saying, "Let's not send a mixed

[33:33] message." bought. You know, part of the

[33:35] issue