Larry King Live (CNN) - 2006-11-30 - 2 of 2

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Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] calm. Um Pety uh was rubbing her down,

[0:04] relaxing her the entire time, which is

[0:06] his experience was really the the uh the

[0:09] experience and the training that that

[0:11] Ken Peters received being a trainer for

[0:13] the last 16 years. Uh is what helped the

[0:16] situation. Kasak was actually calm at

[0:18] the surface. What people saw was a

[0:20] trainer, you know, in certainly not in

[0:23] the most comfortable situation, but a

[0:24] trainer that was basically in control of

[0:27] that situation.

[0:27] >> Jack, thank you. We'll see you Monday

[0:29] for the taping as we always do our

[0:32] semianual event with Jack Hannah and

[0:34] Julie. Great seeing you.

[0:35] >> Great seeing you Larry. You too, Jack.

[0:36] >> Looking forward to go down to SeaWorld.

[0:39] >> Julie Scardina and Jack Hannah. When we

[0:41] come back, the man whose sexual

[0:42] harassment allegations forced politician

[0:44] James McGrevy out of the closet and out

[0:47] of the New Jersey governor's mansion.

[0:48] Don't go away.

[0:51] >> I realized it's perhaps sadly more about

[0:54] proximity to power than than actual

[0:56] love. feel betrayed.

[0:59] >> Yeah, but I also betrayed him

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[2:25] >> Tomorrow on 360, reaction to Pope

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[3:05] >> We're the Slokis. I'm Bill and this is

[3:07] my wife Carolyn.

[3:08] >> Hi.

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[3:36] >> Funny man Louis Black rants and raves at

[3:38] all the latest news. Larry King tomorrow

[3:40] night Eastern.

[3:45] I engaged in an adult consensual affair

[3:48] with another man.

[3:49] >> Who was that alleged other man in one of

[3:51] the biggest bombshells in recent

[3:53] American political history? Golan Seel

[3:56] joined Jim McGrevy's campaign for New

[3:58] Jersey governor in 2001 after holding

[4:01] several government jobs in his native

[4:03] Israel. After McGrevy was elected, he

[4:05] hired Seepil as an aid. Even before

[4:08] McGrevy's sensational resignation, there

[4:10] had been questions about Seel's

[4:12] background, qualifications, and his

[4:15] status as an Israeli, not an American

[4:17] citizen.

[4:18] >> Why did you put Mrs. Sele on the

[4:19] payroll?

[4:22] I wanted him close to me. So, it was a

[4:25] selfish reason.

[4:27] >> Yeah, sure. Seel resigned his post in

[4:30] 2002 and was reportedly preparing a

[4:33] sexual harassment suit against McGrevy

[4:36] when the governor stepped down and came

[4:38] out in 2004. While McGrevy says they

[4:41] were lovers, Seel tells a very different

[4:44] story.

[4:46] And we now welcome to Larry King live

[4:48] Golan Seipo the who is named by the New

[4:51] Jersey governor as his lover claims

[4:53] there was no he claims there was no gay

[4:55] affair between them. Did you file a

[4:56] sexual harassment suit?

[4:57] >> No. Eventually I decided not to file it.

[5:00] >> Why?

[5:00] >> It was a difficult difficult decision,

[5:02] Larry. But um I had only two weeks or so

[5:06] to decide and the statute of limitation

[5:07] was very very short.

[5:09] >> Um for me the fact that M McGrevy

[5:12] decided to resign was enough to know

[5:15] that this man will never be in a

[5:17] position of power and we will never be

[5:19] able to do what he did to me to other

[5:22] people.

[5:22] >> All right. Are you saying tonight

[5:23] unequivocally

[5:25] you had nothing to do with participating

[5:28] in this relationship?

[5:29] >> Absolutely. It was sexual harassment and

[5:31] sexual assault.

[5:32] >> And then the question has to be asked,

[5:34] are you gay?

[5:35] >> No. And I said it very very uh many

[5:37] times. Uh it's a you know it's quite

[5:40] embarrassing because on one hand you

[5:43] don't want to embarrass the gay

[5:44] community. It's a difficult question. On

[5:46] the other hand I want to tell the truth.

[5:49] But Larry, um the fact is that Jimmy

[5:52] Grievy want to turn it into a gay

[5:55] straight issue, which which is not. The

[5:57] issue here is about sexual assault and

[6:01] sexual harassment.

[6:02] >> When you went to work for him, when you

[6:03] met him, did you think he was gay?

[6:05] >> No. No, I didn't think I met a guy who

[6:08] was divorced. Uh he spoke a lot about

[6:11] his ex-wife. Uh he spoke about his new

[6:14] wife, Dena, and um she was pregnant. I

[6:18] didn't suspect anything. I didn't have

[6:21] >> Did you suspect about getting that kind

[6:22] of job without all those qualifications?

[6:25] >> No. And and you know there's a lot of

[6:27] misunderstanding about my qualification

[6:28] because the job I had was not the

[6:32] homeland security advising the homeland

[6:34] security. What I my job at the

[6:36] governor's office was uh consular to the

[6:39] governor and I had several portfolios.

[6:41] One of them was to be responsible in the

[6:45] governor's office on homeland security

[6:47] and that was a technical job. The fact

[6:49] is that McGrevy lied about it. He lied

[6:52] about it and he ad

[6:54] um how to end it later and he lied more

[6:57] and more like he always do. Eventually

[7:00] the media did not accept his um his

[7:03] story.

[7:03] >> Do you now believe that he hired you

[7:05] because he wanted to have a relationship

[7:07] with you?

[7:08] >> Look, I can't answer that question.

[7:10] >> Believe it. Uh, I do believe that he had

[7:13] hidden agend agenda and and I do believe

[7:16] that when he saw me back in Israel, he

[7:18] thought about it, but at that time I

[7:20] didn't see any signs.

[7:22] >> Here's a clip when James McGrevy was on

[7:24] Larry King Live back in September after

[7:26] he'd written his book. We were talking

[7:27] about uh your denials of any sexual

[7:29] involvement with him. Let's take a look

[7:31] at what he said.

[7:33] >> Now, what do you make of him in Israel

[7:35] the other day when the book came out?

[7:37] >> Yeah. denying that he's gay, that he

[7:39] ever had that it was all forced. You

[7:41] forced yourself upon him.

[7:42] >> Yeah.

[7:44] >> Is this he says she says?

[7:46] >> Yeah. There's no advantage in me telling

[7:49] this story except the truth. And I stand

[7:51] by every word in that book. It's the

[7:54] truth. And you know, I wish him his

[7:58] peace. Um but for him, ironically,

[8:02] this thing has been painful for my wife,

[8:05] my family.

[8:08] But but for Golan Sappel, the irony is

[8:10] like I never would have come out.

[8:14] >> Did you meet him in Israel?

[8:15] >> Yes.

[8:16] >> He was on a state visit. Was he

[8:17] governor?

[8:18] >> No. At that time he was a mayor and he

[8:20] was thinking of running again for

[8:21] governor.

[8:22] >> I see. Did you like him?

[8:24] >> You know uh we were hosting this

[8:26] delegation when we were nice to

[8:27] everybody. Nothing uh in particular.

[8:30] Nothing who looks uh different. But uh

[8:33] as far as I concerned, he looked like a

[8:35] normal guy and we had a very good

[8:38] conversation.

[8:42] >> At one point during a visit to the city,

[8:43] you were seated next to each other and

[8:45] he whispered something in your ear. What

[8:47] was it?

[8:47] >> Right. During this trip when McGre start

[8:50] to speak to me, he decided that he needs

[8:53] to convince me to to come and join with

[8:55] working for him in the campaign. And um

[8:58] in one point he was sitting next to me

[9:00] and whisper in my ear and said, "What

[9:02] are you doing here? This is too too this

[9:05] is too small for you. You should come to

[9:07] America. You'll do much better in

[9:09] America than you do in Israel." And at

[9:11] that time I didn't decide if if that's

[9:13] what I want to do. And and it looks very

[9:15] weird to me that someone who just know

[9:16] me in such a short time will offer me a

[9:18] job working on the campaign. But that's

[9:20] what he did shortly after. Now on your

[9:23] website which is by the way

[9:25] seepilgolan.com

[9:27] you do it seepil the reverse right? Uh

[9:29] you talk about following him upstairs at

[9:31] his home that that night. He started

[9:34] towards the den when suddenly he turned

[9:36] very abruptly pushed me extremely hard

[9:37] into his bedroom and toward his bed. I

[9:39] was in shock. I froze in disbelief. I

[9:41] asked him what he was doing. Both of his

[9:43] hands were on my chest. He pushed me

[9:44] back onto the bed. Jumped on top of me

[9:47] trying to pin me to the bed and kissed

[9:48] me. We wrestled and then he just

[9:50] stopped. got off the bed and was

[9:51] standing on one side of the room while I

[9:52] stood on the other. I was in total

[9:54] shock. I never imagined something like

[9:56] this could happen and had never been

[9:58] prepared myself for the possibility. Why

[10:00] then didn't you just say goodbye?

[10:04] Well, Larry, that's actually a very good

[10:06] question. I think a lot of people asking

[10:08] the same question and I have to tell you

[10:10] that even for me it was a very difficult

[10:13] question to answer to myself. But the

[10:15] fact is, and that's something I've

[10:16] learned um during the past uh several

[10:20] years, is that victims of sexual

[10:22] harassments behave that way. It takes

[10:25] them a lot of time to recognize what

[10:27] happened to them. It takes them a lot of

[10:29] time to admit to themsel that that

[10:31] that's what happened to them. You're in

[10:32] deep denial. It's a lot of

[10:34] embarrassment. And here's a guy that you

[10:37] respect. Here's the guy who's a governor

[10:39] and a very powerful governor who had

[10:41] security uh um uh details around him and

[10:46] you're very confused

[10:48] uh to I mean if you ask me before Larry

[10:51] what would you do if a man will attack

[10:53] you I would say I would punch him in the

[10:55] in the face but the fact is that I

[10:58] froze. The fact is that I didn't know

[11:00] how to act.

[11:00] >> But why didn't you quit?

[11:03] Well, um first um I uh McGrevy asked me

[11:08] not to speak about it and I decided the

[11:12] whole story is that he tried to to get

[11:14] me drunk and then he kind of explained

[11:16] to me that that he had too much to drink

[11:19] and I thought, you know, maybe that's

[11:20] the problem. Maybe I'll just continue

[11:22] and ignore it. And and that's also

[11:24] excuse that a victim of sexual

[11:25] harassments use. I'll try to ignore it.

[11:28] Maybe he didn't know. Maybe he didn't

[11:30] understand. But that that's of course a

[11:32] mistake. Did it happen again a lot?

[11:34] >> No. There was another incident when he

[11:36] exposed himself shortly after. It was in

[11:39] his house before he moved to the

[11:41] governor's mansion and um he used to

[11:44] meet with the aids in his private condo.

[11:46] I sat on one side of the room and he was

[11:49] in a hospital bed because he broke his

[11:51] leg at that time. There was another aid

[11:53] uh who was eating um someone who was

[11:56] very uh close to McGrevy. Um and the

[11:59] wife and the new baby. The new baby was

[12:02] on the floor.

[12:02] >> So how he he exposed himself to you?

[12:04] >> Yes.

[12:05] >> The wife left the room.

[12:07] >> The wife went to the kitchen. McGrevy

[12:09] had a broken leg. He was on a hospital

[12:11] bed. The other aid left to the kitchen.

[12:13] McGrevy exposed himself. He start to

[12:15] masturbate and was petting the bed and

[12:18] said, "Come sit next to me."

[12:19] >> And of course, I was in shock. I said,

[12:21] "I'm leaving." And then the other eight

[12:24] came from the kitchen and said heard me

[12:26] saying, "I'm leaving." He was going

[12:28] towards the governor, want to shake his

[12:31] hand, and the governor was pulling him,

[12:33] trying to kiss him on the lips.

[12:34] >> The aid,

[12:35] >> the aid, the other aid who was there.

[12:37] >> We'll take a break, and uh we'll be

[12:40] right back. Don't go away.

[12:42] >> Do you think if you had announced early

[12:45] on in life that you were gay,

[12:48] you could have been a governor?

[12:50] >> No.

[12:51] >> I think I could have been I think I

[12:52] could have been elected governor. And if

[12:55] I had the courage to say,

[12:58] you know,

[13:00] God, this is who I am. And, you know,

[13:02] prayed about it, thought about it, and

[13:04] came to that conclusion. And if I had

[13:06] been, you know, uh, told my wife and

[13:10] told the people around me and my family

[13:12] and then went to the state of New Jersey

[13:13] and said, "Hey, look at this is my

[13:15] reality." But I would have never had the

[13:18] courage to do that.

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[15:58] Former President Bill Clinton, the

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[16:01] Barack Obama. Why the world still cares

[16:04] about World AIDS Day on a special

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[16:19] A special CNN presents After Jesus.

[16:23] Wednesday, December 20th.

[16:34] We're back with Golan Seel who was

[16:36] involved in the James McGrevy story and

[16:39] the his leaving the governorship of New

[16:42] Jersey. Uh by the way, one of our

[16:44] producers contacted that aid and he said

[16:47] that never happened,

[16:48] >> right? He denied it. I mean, most of

[16:50] those aids and people who work with the

[16:52] Gri still very close to him and either

[16:54] they're afraid or um they have jobs and

[16:56] they would not put themselves in risk.

[16:58] Do your friends back in Israel believe

[16:59] you?

[17:00] >> Yeah, absolutely. Actually, I got a lot

[17:01] of good press. Uh, one of the leading

[17:04] newspapers not and a very uh uh

[17:07] important newspaper uh journalist by the

[17:09] name Yuval County, which is I call him

[17:11] my Emil Zola with a wonderful article.

[17:14] So, I'm not concerned about Israel.

[17:16] Israelis take it very seriously. I'm

[17:19] concerned about what happened in

[17:20] America.

[17:21] >> And you've never had a gay relationship

[17:22] of any?

[17:23] >> No, absolutely not. And you have to

[17:24] understand Larry, I've been under

[17:27] scrutiny for so long by the media, by

[17:30] the Republicans, by the Democrats, and

[17:32] by McGrevy. Mcgri even even in his book

[17:34] that he sent a private investigator to

[17:36] Israel. If they want to find anything

[17:39] about me related to corruption or

[17:41] anything bad, they would have done it

[17:43] and they would have written about it.

[17:44] >> When former Governor McGrevy was on this

[17:46] show, he told his own version of what he

[17:48] said was the first time the two of you

[17:49] were intimate. I want you to look and

[17:51] give me your reaction.

[17:54] You came on with him though, right?

[17:56] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the crazy thing

[17:57] is we never discussed being gay.

[18:01] >> We never talked about

[18:03] >> It just happened one night.

[18:04] >> It it it happened.

[18:07] But then even when you continue it, it's

[18:08] it's just like, you know, you're not

[18:10] admitting to

[18:11] >> You never said, "I'm gay. You're gay."

[18:13] >> No.

[18:13] >> Never used the word.

[18:14] >> No, you never used the word. The word is

[18:15] something that's

[18:16] >> But you had relations.

[18:17] >> Oh, yeah.

[18:20] McGrevy said Goolan that uh you were

[18:23] more of the teacher than the student

[18:24] when it came to love making that he

[18:26] feels you're gay but deeply closeted.

[18:29] Your thoughts?

[18:30] >> Well, you know in the book when you read

[18:31] it it's all about what Mcgribby think or

[18:34] what he thought about and when he sat

[18:36] next to me when he speak about

[18:38] relationship and then when you read it

[18:39] very thoroughly he's talking about

[18:41] political relationship but then he said

[18:43] but in my mind I thought that doesn't

[18:45] really works. I think people need to

[18:47] read the book very very thoroughly. For

[18:49] example, in his book, he writes in

[18:51] pageuh 255, he said, of course, um, I

[18:56] thought that Golan in one point, I

[18:57] thought that Golan isn't gay. How is

[18:59] that that works with those vivid

[19:02] description of love making? If McGrevy

[19:05] thought I'm not gay, how did he had a

[19:07] relationship with me? In this clip, he

[19:09] speaks about not talking about it.

[19:12] Larry, did you ever had a relationship

[19:14] when you didn't talk with other person?

[19:16] That's not true. doesn't exist.

[19:20] >> When he started saying all this, how'd

[19:22] you react

[19:23] >> now on television?

[19:25] >> No. Yeah. When he came out, then he when

[19:26] he came out of the closet and then he

[19:28] discussed that you were his lover. How

[19:29] did you first do you need to know I

[19:31] didn't know any of this during the

[19:33] negotiation? We talked about sexual

[19:36] harassments. It took McGrevy a long time

[19:38] to admit to his lawyers that he sexually

[19:40] arrested me. And then they start to

[19:42] negotiate with me and offering money to

[19:44] to offer you money.

[19:46] >> Absolutely. E offered me money to go

[19:48] away but but they never ever mentioned a

[19:52] love affair. So only towards the end of

[19:55] the negotiation I got a telephone call

[19:57] from from one of those uh people who

[20:00] said to me you know the governor is

[20:01] going to resign and I thought at that

[20:03] time that if the governor is going to

[20:05] resign that's the right thing to do

[20:07] because he sexually arrest me and it's

[20:09] not just unethical it's illegal.

[20:10] >> Why didn't you take the money? Um my

[20:13] lawyer did negotiate with um with

[20:16] McGrevy's legal team and we were ready

[20:18] to settle it. But I think for McGrevy

[20:21] the most important thing was that they

[20:23] want to know what will be the asurances

[20:26] that I would never ever speak and we

[20:29] tried to convince him. I mean my

[20:30] attorney tried to convince him that

[20:31] that's going to be the case. I don't

[20:33] know what happened.

[20:34] >> You had no intention of speaking.

[20:35] >> No I didn't I didn't have any intention

[20:37] to speak at all even before that it

[20:40] happened. Well, if he had just said,

[20:42] "I'm gay. I'm resigning." Never

[20:44] mentioned you. No problem.

[20:46] >> But that's not what happened. What

[20:47] happened was that I filed a a lawsuit

[20:50] against him and then agreed start to

[20:52] negotiate and then eventually when he

[20:54] realized that he's not going to he

[20:56] cannot win the negotiation, he decided

[20:57] to to resign. That was the order of

[20:59] things.

[21:00] >> So when he said you were more of the

[21:01] teacher, how do you react to that? I I I

[21:04] can't react to every you know we have to

[21:06] distinguish between McGrevy's attempt to

[21:08] sell books and the reality but the

[21:10] reality is that even if we when you read

[21:12] the book there's so many contradiction

[21:15] in the beginning of this the the book he

[21:17] writes about talking to his wife and his

[21:18] wife asking him are you gay towards the

[21:20] end of the book he said well maybe she

[21:22] didn't really ask me that question when

[21:24] he when he's been asked about corruption

[21:26] which he has been involved in he said

[21:28] well my memory is not that good so if

[21:30] your memory is not good don't write a

[21:32] memoir are that's the problem. So let's

[21:34] distinguish between writing books and

[21:36] selling books and reality.

[21:38] >> Just ahead, the job the governor of

[21:40] Grievy gave Golan and the controversy

[21:42] about his qualifications a lot more too

[21:44] when we come back.

[21:46] >> Are you taking all the blame?

[21:48] >> Oh, in this relationship?

[21:49] >> Yeah. In this whole story, are you

[21:52] saying

[21:53] >> Oh, yeah.

[21:54] >> I'm the wrongful one. I did wrong.

[21:56] >> I did wrong. I did wrong. What I did was

[21:59] wrong. I mean, I was married. I was

[22:01] governor of the state of New Jersey. How

[22:03] insane was it to like be acting out and

[22:06] having a relationship?

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[24:15] >> County 911.

[24:17] >> I need help.

[24:18] >> Where are you at?

[24:19] >> Well, I don't know exactly, but I'm

[24:23] And my girlfriend here is freezing.

[24:25] >> Mike, I want to help you so bad, hun. I

[24:28] want to find out where you're at.

[24:30] >> My phone's just about to die. You're my

[24:33] last chance here.

[24:36] Okay.

[24:38] Please help us.

[24:43] >> This seat is different. Now I'm in big

[24:46] trouble.

[24:47] >> It's the only place some will sit and

[24:48] talk.

[24:49] >> I am still amazed at how much people did

[24:51] for me. here. People open up to me. I

[24:54] didn't want to have any secrets from the

[24:56] audience. I've heard some amazing

[24:58] stories, talked with incredible people

[25:00] from all over the world.

[25:02] >> Turn off the cameras. We can keep

[25:03] talking.

[25:04] >> Every night I learn something new, and

[25:06] so will you. I can't wait to see who

[25:08] sits here next.

[25:16] And so my truth is that I am a gay

[25:19] American and I am blessed to live in the

[25:22] greatest nation with a tradition of

[25:25] civil liberties, the greatest tradition

[25:28] of civil liberties in the world and a

[25:30] country which provides so much to its

[25:33] people.

[25:36] >> By the way, you can get on to his

[25:38] website selegalan.com.

[25:42] It's s e right

[25:44] >> c i p l right golan

[25:46] >> g o l an n.com for any further

[25:49] information. Our guest is uh Mr. Seo and

[25:53] uh we're discussing the matter with Jim

[25:54] McGrevy. You mentioned uh in this

[25:56] conversation sexual assault. Your

[25:59] lawsuit was sexual harassment. Is that

[26:00] the same?

[26:01] >> Yeah, it's the same. Um

[26:02] >> that's what I thought.

[26:03] >> Um harassments. We did file against

[26:05] harassments also because McGrevy was

[26:07] also interfering in my life in other

[26:10] ways. But the main thing was sexual

[26:12] harassment and sexual assault.

[26:13] >> You were grabbed.

[26:15] >> Absolutely. He was using violence uh in

[26:17] the first incident and the second the

[26:19] third incident in a car.

[26:21] >> Those there were three alltogether,

[26:22] right?

[26:22] >> Yeah. The third incident uh happened

[26:24] when we were driving to Washington in a

[26:26] very large white van. There was state

[26:29] three state troopers who sat in the

[26:31] front and the grievy asked the security

[26:34] details to take the seats out because he

[26:36] wanted to lie on the floor and they had

[26:38] mattress and they were used to the

[26:40] drill. I sat at the back and in one

[26:43] point I fell asleep and we were driving

[26:46] to DC and um in one point I saw the

[26:51] governor rubbing his penis against my

[26:55] foot and Larry

[26:58] I I can't describe to you in words what

[27:01] it feels. It's the most humiliating.

[27:04] >> Did you push him away? I what I did is I

[27:06] pushed one I I I pushed one of my legs

[27:10] out and then he grabbed the other one

[27:11] and then I pushed the right one and I

[27:14] was aiming it towards his face and I was

[27:16] ready to hit him. I didn't care anymore

[27:18] that there's state troopers. I didn't

[27:20] care care where we are

[27:23] and it's a very very difficult

[27:26] situation. You don't really know what to

[27:28] do. This is an absurd. We're driving in

[27:30] a state car,

[27:32] >> two deceits, three state troopers, and

[27:34] the governor is rubbing my leg,

[27:37] >> humping it like a dog. And and and the

[27:40] only thing you do,

[27:41] >> you quit that day.

[27:42] >> And that's that's what I did. After

[27:44] that, I came I met with the governor and

[27:46] I said to him, I'm leaving. That's it.

[27:49] And his answer was very clear. You're

[27:50] not going anywhere. He started to yell

[27:52] at me, you stay here until the day you

[27:54] die. And the phrase he used was until

[27:56] you deep in the ground. And I start to

[27:59] realize this is like a John Gerson

[28:00] movie. You know when you see the film

[28:03] you got into a place which look

[28:05] beautiful. Everybody in suits. Everybody

[28:07] are very professional. Everything looks

[28:08] great.

[28:09] >> He said you went he said after that trip

[28:11] you had a great love making session in

[28:13] the hotel.

[28:14] >> No that's not true because McGrevy

[28:16] doesn't have a good memory. He admit it

[28:18] in the book and that's the only part in

[28:19] the book that I agree with.

[28:20] >> What happened after when the trip ended?

[28:22] >> Uh shortly after I actually left uh

[28:24] govern government govern

[28:25] >> and spend that night with him. Uh what

[28:27] happened at that place was I asked for a

[28:29] room and the answer I got from the

[28:31] governor's office that the aid has to be

[28:34] with the governor in the same room

[28:36] because the governor want to save

[28:37] taxpayers money and this is the same

[28:39] person who spent so much money on

[28:41] helicopter and trips abroad. I asked for

[28:44] a separate room and that's what was

[28:45] promised to me. That didn't happen and I

[28:47] had to lock myself in the bathroom. Lock

[28:50] myself in the bathroom.

[28:51] >> In the governor's suite?

[28:51] >> No, in the governor's suite in the hotel

[28:53] because I was embarrassed.

[28:54] >> You slept in the bathroom? I slept on

[28:56] the floor on a towel because I was

[28:58] afraid to stay with him in the same

[28:59] room.

[29:00] >> Let's take a take a look at a clip of

[29:01] what McGrevy had to say about your

[29:03] qualifications for the job he gave you.

[29:05] Watch.

[29:06] >> Was that a political kind of payoff? It

[29:09] >> was a it was a political position. It

[29:10] was the office the council of the

[29:12] governor in the governor's office. So,

[29:13] it's a consultant role and it's

[29:15] typically somebody that you would

[29:16] >> then he got to be security, right?

[29:18] >> No, he he was involved in it, but Larry,

[29:20] he was never I mean he was never a head

[29:21] of security. I mean that in state of New

[29:23] Jersey is under the attorney general's

[29:25] office and something called the domestic

[29:27] security preparedness task force. He was

[29:29] never a member of it but he did work on

[29:31] homeland security in terms of advising

[29:33] me. I mean the point is he should have

[29:34] never been on the payroll.

[29:37] >> Didn't you question why you were on the

[29:38] payroll?

[29:39] >> No. I think you know um in politics

[29:42] especially between two countries like

[29:44] Israel and America there are Americans

[29:46] who work in Israel in politics and there

[29:48] are Israelis who work in America. And I

[29:50] want to tell you one thing that is very

[29:51] very important. When I came to this

[29:53] country, I didn't come as a foreigner. I

[29:55] came as a new immigrant. And there are

[29:57] new immigrants in this country who work

[29:59] in the government like their lawyers and

[30:01] doctor.

[30:01] >> You worked at the Israeli consulate,

[30:03] right?

[30:03] >> That that's way before. But when I made

[30:05] a choice to come and work here, I I

[30:09] decided that that I'm going to be a new

[30:10] immigrant and I going to stay in this

[30:12] country. But you know when I when I

[30:14] decided to uh and the when I start

[30:16] working on the campaign I didn't have

[30:18] any inspirations when Rivy called me to

[30:21] work on the campaign he said come for

[30:23] one year work on the campaign then you

[30:25] can move on and at the end of the

[30:27] campaign we had this conversation when

[30:29] he asked me to join his administration

[30:32] and I asked him you know I'm not I'm not

[30:34] an American yet and even if I start my

[30:36] my immigration process it's going to

[30:38] take a while and he said I'm the most

[30:40] powerful governor in the nation I can

[30:42] point wherever I want and if I want you

[30:44] to be my adviser and my consular that's

[30:47] it and that that was McGrey's approach.

[30:51] >> He said he was the most powerful

[30:52] governor in the nation.

[30:53] >> Absolutely. He he used to repeat it

[30:55] again and again and again.

[30:56] >> Let me get a break and we'll come back

[30:58] with more of this fascinating exclusive

[31:00] interview uh with Golan. Did you ever do

[31:04] anything wild while governor?

[31:05] >> Well, other than Goolan,

[31:08] >> Larry, that was more than enough.

[31:11] So Golden was the only

[31:12] >> Yes.

[31:13] >> sexual experience with a man while

[31:15] governor.

[31:15] >> Yes.

[31:22] >> Larry King Monday exclusive. Her fiance

[31:25] killed by 50 police bullets hours before

[31:27] their wedding. A city is outraged. She

[31:29] calls it murder. Now the bride to be's

[31:31] first interview. Larry King exclusive

[31:33] Monday night Eastern only on CNN.

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[33:57] If Golan Sipel thought he could slip

[33:59] away from New Jersey and the scandal

[34:01] enveloping the governor there, he was

[34:03] wrong. The Israeli born former aid to

[34:05] James McGrevy going home to a suburb

[34:08] outside Tel Aviv to his parents and to a

[34:10] mob of waiting cameras making his first

[34:13] televised statement.

[34:17] >> I have had a very difficult time. I've

[34:19] come to Israel to be with my family at

[34:21] this time. I cannot expand on anything

[34:23] for legal reasons.

[34:26] Yeah, we live.

[34:29] >> Well, we're back uh with Golan who said

[34:32] an extraordinary thing to me during the

[34:34] break.

[34:35] >> He said he does not think James McGrevy

[34:38] is gay.

[34:40] >> What?

[34:40] >> No, I don't believe that. That's That's

[34:42] part of the spin. I

[34:45] >> spin to be gay. Why?

[34:47] >> I I believe that Jim McGre is bisexual.

[34:50] But Le, can you imagine this dramatic

[34:53] press conference when Jimmy Gre is

[34:56] coming out and saying, "But the truth

[34:58] is, I'm proud to be an a bisexual

[35:01] American

[35:02] >> and he's got a gay lover now."

[35:03] >> No. Yeah. But but I don't know about

[35:05] that. I do believe that he's attracted

[35:06] to men, but Jimmy Grievy was attracted

[35:09] to women. I would never believe that

[35:11] story. Even after what even the fact

[35:14] that I knew his secret and what happened

[35:16] with me, he still spoke about

[35:19] heterosexual uh sex, he spoke about

[35:22] prostitutes. For example, you know,

[35:24] McGrevy and he used to brag about it

[35:26] said to me once that he after the visit

[35:29] to Avitz to the death camp in Avitz

[35:32] brought prostitutes to the hotel. He and

[35:34] another aid had sex with prostitutes in

[35:36] the hotel. He said the same thing about

[35:39] having sex with prostitutes in Dominican

[35:41] Republic. Those were official visits. He

[35:44] had sex with prostitutes in New Jersey

[35:46] and and deny it in certain point and

[35:49] then in his book he said there was one

[35:52] prostitute but he didn't know what to do

[35:53] with her so he sent her to to a

[35:55] vacation. That's a very poor excuse.

[35:58] Something here is wrong. I mean I think

[36:00] McGrevy had no choice. There was a

[36:02] sexual harassment lawsuit against him.

[36:05] He didn't know what to do. And his

[36:07] advisor told told him, "Come out first.

[36:10] If you come out first, you will be

[36:12] perceived as the victim. You have

[36:15] control over the story." And that's what

[36:16] he chose to do.

[36:17] >> What happened when you got back to

[36:18] Israel after what happened when you

[36:20] left?

[36:21] >> When I left to Israel, I I didn't plan

[36:23] to stay in Israel. The reason I went

[36:24] back to Israel is because I want to be

[36:26] with my family. You have to understand,

[36:27] Larry, my my parents' apartment in in my

[36:30] hometown, Rishon Leion, was surrounded

[36:32] by American journalists. Did they all

[36:34] know the story there?

[36:35] >> Oh, of course. Of course. And I want to

[36:38] be with them. I want to control and

[36:40] manage this crisis there. If my family

[36:42] lived in Philadelphia or Chicago, that's

[36:44] where I would go. But the fact is my

[36:46] family lived in Israel and I want to be

[36:47] with them. I didn't plan to stay, but

[36:50] shortly after I got a threat letter in

[36:52] Israel said, "Watch your back. We know

[36:55] where you are." And it signs Jim's body.

[36:58] And Larry, my father was the one who

[37:01] brought me this letter with shaking

[37:03] hands and said to me, "Golan, I'm afraid

[37:06] even now before I got into this show, I

[37:08] got an a message from my my mother on

[37:11] myself and said, you know, you're going

[37:13] to be on Lar, but what's going to happen

[37:15] after?" And she's worried and a lot of

[37:17] people in Israel are worried. But the

[37:19] fact is I decided to speak and I decided

[37:21] to tell the truth and I did speak with

[37:24] the FBI about it. I asked them if my

[37:25] life is in danger and they assure me

[37:27] that they believed that it's not. But I

[37:29] did get threat letters. I saw people

[37:31] coming out of my building. My my phones

[37:34] were tapped. In the course of those uh

[37:38] years, my life was a nightmare.

[37:41] >> We have an email from Kathy in Newberg,

[37:43] New York. Goolan, what regrets, if any,

[37:46] do you have for what became the fate of

[37:47] the governor?

[37:50] >> Um, what does he mean? What does she

[37:52] mean by fate? Do you do you feel you've

[37:55] brought down the governor?

[37:56] >> Uh, look, I'm not seeking for revenge. I

[38:00] never did seek for revenge. The fact was

[38:02] that I wanted the governor to leave me

[38:06] alone. And we had the last telephone

[38:07] conversation. And when um I called him

[38:11] and I said, "Governor, I'm asking you

[38:14] not to call me again. I don't want to do

[38:16] anything with you. Leave me alone. Let

[38:19] me live my life quietly." and he started

[38:22] to to um get scared. McGrevy was always

[38:26] afraid that I will turn to a loose

[38:28] cannon and and I tried to manage it with

[38:30] him. I tried to to make him feel that

[38:33] I'm not doing anything. I'm not putting

[38:34] him in danger. The minute he realized

[38:37] that I'm not I'm asking him not to call

[38:39] again, that's where things started to

[38:41] get bad. I start to get the threat

[38:43] letters in the mail. I start to have uh

[38:46] um um telephone calls from a lot of

[38:49] people asking me, "What are you doing?

[38:51] Where are you? I moved to New York. I

[38:53] tried to hide. I didn't move to New York

[38:55] because I wanted to live there. I I was

[38:57] escaping to New York.

[38:57] >> So when McGrevy says that you were the

[38:59] one that tried to keep up the contact.

[39:01] That's false.

[39:02] >> Absolutely. I mean during those years

[39:04] McGrevy would call me again from

[39:06] different cell phone and I would return

[39:07] calls because I tried to um he always

[39:10] call it be nice and and McGrevy worked I

[39:13] have to admit almost in a mafia style.

[39:15] We

[39:16] >> got to get a break and we'll come back

[39:17] with our remaining moments. We'll ask

[39:18] what he's going to do now. Don't go

[39:20] away.

[39:27] I want to treat my osteoporosis. I want

[39:29] to keep my bones healthy.

[39:30] >> I want to protect myself against

[39:31] fractures, especially at the hip.

[39:34] >> I can help.

[39:34] >> Fossamax Plus D treats postmenopausal

[39:37] osteoporosis.

[39:38] >> My doctor prescribed Fossomex Plus D.

[39:40] And she said not all treatments are the

[39:42] same. Only Fossamax Plus D is approved

[39:45] to help prevent fractures of both the

[39:46] hip and spine in women with

[39:48] osteoporosis. Bonva is not protecting my

[39:51] hip is important to me. You should not

[39:52] use Vosamax Plus D if you have certain

[39:54] disorders of the esophagus, are not able

[39:56] to stand or sit upright for 30 minutes,

[39:58] have severe kidney disease, or low blood

[40:00] calcium. Before use, talk to your doctor

[40:02] if you have stomach or digestive

[40:03] problems, and about any medications

[40:05] you're taking, including vitamins and

[40:07] supplements. It's not for vitamin D

[40:08] deficiency. Stop taking Phosmax Plus D

[40:11] and call your doctor right away if you

[40:12] develop new or worsening heartburn,

[40:14] difficult or painful swallowing or chest

[40:16] pain because these may be signs of

[40:17] serious upper digestive problems. I

[40:19] listened. I heard Fossamax Plus D. The

[40:24] only one that protects both your hip and

[40:26] spine.

[40:28] >> For each of us, there is a moment of

[40:30] discovery.

[40:31] We see that all of life is elemental.

[40:34] And as we marvel at element bonding with

[40:36] element, we soon realize that when you

[40:39] add the human element to the equation,

[40:42] the chemistry changes. We find a way of

[40:45] seeing that gives us a way of touching

[40:48] issues, ambitions, lives, the human

[40:51] element. Nothing is more fundamental,

[40:54] nothing more elemental.

[40:57] >> The perfect Christmas gift. The Jewelry

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[41:12] My souvenir from this trip, back pain

[41:15] went from bad to worse. But now I wear

[41:17] this Thermicare heat wrap for 8 hours of

[41:19] heat and 16 hours of relief. 16 hours. I

[41:23] could use these every day. And now

[41:25] Thermicare sponsoring an amazing road

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[41:30] vacation and win our new Mercedes SUV.

[41:34] Hotel, food, gas, it's all included. So

[41:36] check out thermicare.com and enter to

[41:39] win. Thermicare. Have heat. We'll

[41:41] travel.

[41:52] This CNN Hummer saw the war. Now it will

[41:54] help those who fought it. After a cool

[41:56] new overhaul, it'll be auctioned off to

[41:58] benefit Fiser House, a home away from

[42:00] home for families of patients being

[42:02] treated at major military hospitals. To

[42:04] find out more, go to fisherhouse.org.

[42:11] By the way, go for 5 years an officer in

[42:13] the Israeli Navy. We have a statement

[42:15] from former New Jersey Governor James

[42:17] McGrevy. I stand behind the truth and

[42:19] accuracy of every word in this book.

[42:22] Goolan and I had a consensual sexual

[42:24] relationship which lasted for months.

[42:27] The purpose of the book speaks to the

[42:29] need for honesty and transparency

[42:31] throughout our lives. And my only wish

[42:32] for Golan is that he finds peace and

[42:35] acceptance in his life.

[42:38] >> Reaction.

[42:39] >> Well, the reaction is once a liar always

[42:42] a liar. McGrevy is a man who lied so

[42:44] many times.

[42:45] >> So the statement doesn't move you at

[42:46] all.

[42:46] >> Oh no. I heard the state. It's almost

[42:48] McGrev is even boring in a statement. Um

[42:52] I I I honestly don't care about McGrevy

[42:55] owe the book. I'm here to tell my story.

[42:59] Those allegation as you see them on my

[43:01] website has been before the book and

[43:04] will be after the book. And the fact is

[43:06] that Jimmy Grievy think that he can

[43:08] write a book then move on maybe through

[43:12] getting a job or maybe gay getting

[43:14] involved in the gay community can get

[43:16] back to public life. My point is, and

[43:19] I'm asking the gay community, which I

[43:21] respect, not to embrace McGrevy. McGrevy

[43:24] is a man who chose violence, who man is

[43:27] a man who uh committed a sexual

[43:29] harassment to me and to others and he

[43:32] should not be part of that.

[43:34] >> What are you going to do with your life

[43:35] now?

[43:35] >> Well, I have a lot of plans and I have

[43:37] to tell you that I feel good. I'm moving

[43:40] on. I I don't feel uh intimidated

[43:43] anymore. I'm not afraid to speak and I

[43:45] will continue to speak. If it's giving

[43:47] lectures, if it's it been on television,

[43:50] I would continue to speak about this

[43:52] issue because I think it's a very very

[43:54] important issue. Not just in America, in

[43:56] Israel and and all over the world.

[43:59] There's a problem here. Sexual

[44:01] harassment is not a disease that we

[44:03] cannot cure. We have to fight. And the

[44:06] way to fight against this is to speak to

[44:08] fight against people like McGrevy, not

[44:10] to be afraid that they will write books

[44:12] or have press conferences or would use

[44:14] the spin doctors to speak against them.

[44:17] >> You spoke well tonight. You're going

[44:18] back to Israel now, right?

[44:20] >> Absolutely. I would stay in America and

[44:21] I would come to visit. I have a lot of

[44:23] friends here and and I would come as

[44:25] often as possible and um I love this

[44:28] country.

[44:29] >> I look forward to seeing you again.

[44:30] Thank you.

[44:30] >> Thank you so much. Thank you for having

[44:32] me.

[44:32] >> My pleasure. Our guest has been um Golan

[44:35] Seaffo and if you want to contact him

[44:37] it's seifgolan.com.

[44:41] Tomorrow night we're going to have a

[44:42] Mirththy Mirththy. We're going to have

[44:44] Mirthth of a good We're going to have a

[44:45] lot of laughs. Lewis Black joins us.

[44:49] He's angry at everything. Lewis Black.

[44:51] And if you want email questions to Lewis

[44:53] Black, go to CNN.com/

[44:57] Larry King.

[45:05] Tonight, the White House says President

[45:07] Bush could change his Iraq policy within

[45:10] weeks. But the president says our troops

[45:12] in Iraq must complete their job. We'll

[45:15] have coverage from around the world. And

[45:17] the federal government has lost files

[45:19] and more than 100,000 people applying

[45:22] for American citizenship. But those

[45:25] officials nonetheless gave citizenship

[45:27] to as many as 30,000 of those people,

[45:30] including a suspected radical Islamist

[45:32] terrorist. We'll have that special

[45:34] report and a great