CNN - Lou Dobbs, Situation Room, Paula Zahn - 2006-12-01

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] Bay Calderon are tamed compared with

[0:02] everyday events elsewhere in the

[0:04] country.

[0:06] Violent protests in Waka resulting in

[0:09] nine deaths, including an American

[0:11] journalist.

[0:13] Beheadings and out of control drug wars

[0:15] throughout Mexico's northern border.

[0:17] More than 100 law enforcement officers

[0:19] and 2,000 citizens have been killed in

[0:22] those battles this year.

[0:25] The country has confirmed me as

[0:27] president, looking out for the best

[0:29] interest of the nation and the

[0:31] prosperity of the union.

[0:33] >> Mexico's crawl toward prosperity is at

[0:35] risk unless called their own succeeds

[0:37] where predecessor Vicente Fox failed.

[0:40] Fox counted on his personal relationship

[0:42] with President Bush to win amnesty for

[0:44] millions of Mexican citizens living

[0:46] illegally in the United States. Instead,

[0:48] the United States has made half-hearted

[0:50] attempts to secure its side of the

[0:52] border. While the Mexican federal

[0:54] government has lost control of much of

[0:56] its side,

[0:57] >> I think that Mexico would probably be

[1:00] happy at this point to just stay out uh

[1:03] of any kind of major conflict with the

[1:05] US over people flows and border

[1:08] security.

[1:08] >> The Mexican economy has stabilized, but

[1:11] still fails to produce enough jobs to

[1:13] prevent an estimated 10% of its

[1:15] population from fleeing. They help prop

[1:17] up the economy by sending home $25

[1:19] billion a year. Yet 40% of the wealthy

[1:22] nation's citizens live in poverty and

[1:25] many of them are continuing to support

[1:27] Andreas Manuel Lopez Orador who lost the

[1:29] election by about one half of a

[1:31] percentage point and vows to maintain a

[1:33] shadow government during Calderon's

[1:35] six-year term. The Bush administration

[1:37] continues to express optimism. We have

[1:40] confidence in Mexico's democratic

[1:42] institutions and we believe that these

[1:45] issues are best resolved and can be

[1:47] resolved by Mexican political leaders

[1:50] themselves. Calderon says his first

[1:52] order of business is to crack down on

[1:54] drug traffickers and other criminals.

[1:57] The Mexican president says he will

[1:59] present a plan to fight organized crime

[2:01] within 90 days. He says it will take

[2:03] time and cost money and lives. Kitty,

[2:06] >> thanks very much. Casey Wyan. Well,

[2:08] joining us now from Mexico City is

[2:10] George Grayson. He's one of the world's

[2:12] leading experts on Mexico and thanks for

[2:14] being with us. Um, Professor Grayson,

[2:17] what do you make? This was a fractious

[2:18] election. The swearing in was was just

[2:21] horrific, actually. Um, what do you make

[2:23] of this scene?

[2:26] Uh Katie, I think that uh Kitty, I think

[2:29] that uh people are underestimating

[2:31] Felipe Calderon, and that's good because

[2:34] six years ago, expectations were skyhigh

[2:37] that Fox was going to create a heaven on

[2:39] earth. [clears throat] Uh Calderon is

[2:42] intelligent. He has a brief agenda, but

[2:44] an important agenda, and he's put

[2:47] together a good team. So, I'm relatively

[2:49] optimistic. in the area of immigration.

[2:53] He uh didn't uh go into a whine or talk

[2:56] about victimization, but rather he said

[3:00] uh he would much prefer to keep Mexican

[3:03] workers at home and attract investment

[3:06] to Mexico so that jobs could be created

[3:08] here.

[3:09] >> That's commendable talk. It's Will he be

[3:12] able to put all that into action with

[3:14] Oberdor threatening a shadow government?

[3:18] Well, Lopez Oberdor is losing momentum

[3:22] every day, and he tried to assemble a

[3:25] rally this morning at 7 a.m., and it was

[3:28] a quite a modest turnout. Of course,

[3:31] 7:00 a.m. isn't the best time to try to

[3:34] put together a demonstration. Uh, but

[3:36] the people are tired of his backbiting

[3:39] and bickering, and they're ready for the

[3:41] new president to get on uh with his job.

[3:44] But uh having said that, Calderon has

[3:47] taken two pages from Lopez Orador's

[3:50] book. First, he said he's going to cut

[3:53] his salary and the salaries of other

[3:55] high officials. And secondly, he said

[3:58] that he's going to reach out to poor

[4:00] people and that no child in Mexico

[4:03] should go without health care, and

[4:05] that's going to be one of his highest

[4:07] priorities.

[4:08] >> A very deep concern for US citizens is

[4:10] the drug uh problem. The cartels have

[4:12] killed thousands of people just south of

[4:14] our border. It spilled over into the

[4:17] United States. Do you see any

[4:18] improvement on that,

[4:20] >> Kitty? I think the improvement has to

[4:22] come north of the Rio Grand. The demand

[4:24] is in the United States and until the US

[4:28] can develop a policy to cut that demand

[4:32] or to move toward decriminalizing some

[4:35] controlled substances, uh the Mexicans

[4:37] aren't going to be able to

[4:39] >> certainly not all the blame belongs on

[4:41] the United States though, sir.

[4:44] No, I think though that the demand is

[4:46] there and there are just tens of

[4:48] billions of dollars to be made in drug

[4:51] trafficking and it's so easy to corrupt

[4:54] police officers, judges, and even

[4:57] military officers.

[4:59] >> Thanks very much, George Grayson. Thank

[5:01] you. Professor of Government, College of

[5:03] William and Mary. Coming up, a major

[5:05] overhaul in the test that immigrants

[5:07] must take to become American citizens.

[5:09] We'll have a special report on that.

[5:10] Plus, shocking new evidence tonight of

[5:12] the drag that outsourcing is having on

[5:15] our economy, particularly on good paying

[5:18] jobs in manufacturing. And the latest on

[5:20] a powerful winter storm that's marching

[5:23] from one side of this country to the

[5:24] other. Stay with us

[5:28] >> tonight, 700 p.m. Eastern. Iraq war

[5:30] critic Congressman John Murtha. Does he

[5:32] have a better plan? Find out his advice

[5:34] for President Bush tonight in the

[5:36] situation.

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[7:47] all the latest news. Larry Kane tonight,

[7:49] 9 Eastern.

[7:51] >> A new citizenship test is being

[7:53] introduced next year. The new test is

[7:56] aimed at making sure that new citizens

[7:58] have a better understanding of how this

[8:00] country works. Christine Romans reports.

[8:04] What are the colors in the American

[8:06] flag? What is the name of the form to

[8:09] apply for US citizenship? Critics have

[8:12] long said the American citizenship test

[8:14] is nothing more than a game of trivial

[8:16] pursuit. But a new exam is coming meant

[8:19] to test an understanding of American

[8:20] values, not of memorization skills.

[8:23] Well, the improved questions will allow

[8:25] the individual when you study uh to have

[8:28] a deeper meaning of what it is to be an

[8:30] American.

[8:30] >> New questions will be road tested to

[8:32] volunteers in these cities this winter

[8:35] to fine-tune a new test to be introduced

[8:38] in 2008. No more multiplechoice.

[8:41] Instead, immigrants will fill in the

[8:43] blank to questions like, "What is the

[8:45] law of the land?" The answer, of course,

[8:47] is the Constitution. But groups that

[8:50] help immigrants through the citizenship

[8:52] process are worried a new test may be

[8:54] too difficult

[8:55] >> to suddenly be thrown a test that is um

[8:58] much high much harder to understand,

[9:00] much harder to answer. Uh it kind of

[9:02] seems unnecessary. I mean, there's no

[9:04] there's no question about an immigrant's

[9:06] patriotism or civic duty after waiting

[9:09] in line to become a citizen.

[9:10] >> Architects of the new test say it's just

[9:13] that patriotism the new questions are

[9:15] meant to reveal. The assumption that

[9:17] immigrants are unintelligent incapable

[9:19] of learning very basic concepts. This is

[9:21] not complicated. Basic concepts is just

[9:24] untrue. The reason they come here most

[9:27] of the time is what? For economic

[9:29] freedom, for religious freedom, for

[9:31] legal and political freedom. That's what

[9:33] we want to test them on.

[9:34] >> Potential new Americans must correctly

[9:36] answer six of 10 randomly chosen

[9:39] questions.

[9:40] Another concern is the cost of applying

[9:43] for citizenship at $390 per person. Uh

[9:46] people who help immigrants navigate the

[9:48] process say potential Americans simply

[9:51] cannot afford to fail a new test. A

[9:53] little concerned about any changes at

[9:55] all.

[9:55] >> Well, that might help them study harder.

[9:57] >> Maybe. Yeah.

[9:57] >> Thanks very much, Christine Romans. That

[9:59] brings us to the subject of tonight's

[10:01] poll. Do you believe that the new US

[10:03] citizenship [music] test should be

[10:05] easier or harder? Cast your vote at

[10:07] ludobs.com and we'll bring you the

[10:08] results a little bit later in the

[10:10] broadcast. [music]

[10:11] More evidence tonight of our democracy

[10:13] at risk. The US Election Assistance

[10:15] Commission has been told that paperless

[10:17] electronic voting machines cannot be

[10:19] made secure. That assessment comes from

[10:22] the National Institute of Standards and

[10:24] Technology which says the absence of a

[10:26] paper trail leads to continued questions

[10:29] about voting security and diminished

[10:31] public confidence in the elections. The

[10:33] machines were used in Washington DC and

[10:36] elsewhere across the country in the

[10:38] November elections. Coming up, were the

[10:41] computers at the US Naval College the

[10:43] target of Chinese spies? We'll have a

[10:46] report. A new airport screening device

[10:48] gives security officials a detailed

[10:50] picture of airline passengers. Perhaps

[10:53] too detailed [music] a picture. We'll

[10:54] have a report. And harsh winter weather

[10:57] hits the planes and the Midwest.

[10:59] Hundreds of flights have been cancelled.

[11:01] We'll have the very latest on that. Stay

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[12:05] Tonight on 360, a country at the

[12:07] crossroads, the Pope under fire,

[12:08] reaction to Pope Benedict's visit to

[12:10] Turkey, and his encounter with Islam. Is

[12:13] it healing any wounds or making things

[12:15] worse? A 360 special. When two faiths

[12:18] collide, tonight, [music] 10 p.m.

[12:19] Eastern.

[12:20] >> When belief is worth dying for. When

[12:23] faith rocks civilization to its core and

[12:26] religion becomes revolution.

[12:29] A special CNN presents After Jesus.

[12:32] Wednesday, December 20th. You know,

[12:35] FedEx gave us solutions for all our

[12:36] domestic shipping needs. Maybe we should

[12:38] go international.

[12:39] >> Well, FedEx has been in China for over

[12:41] 20 years.

[12:41] >> Hey, Bill, put a push pin in China.

[12:46] Bill, it's Russia.

[12:52] That's Greenland, Bill. You have no idea

[12:55] where China is, do you?

[12:58] WHOA.

[13:02] >> FedEx shipping to over 200 cities in

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[13:06] >> Now, our top stories. President Bush

[13:09] tonight appears to be considering major

[13:11] changes in US political and military

[13:13] strategy in Iraq. The president has

[13:15] invited top Iraqi political leaders to

[13:17] the White House and the Iraq Study Group

[13:20] is likely to recommend big changes in US

[13:22] military strategy. Congressional

[13:25] Democrats are expected to abandon one of

[13:27] their main campaign pledges. Sources say

[13:30] Democrats will not implement all the

[13:32] recommendations of the 9/11 Commission

[13:34] as promised. Democrats do not want to

[13:37] reorganize the way Congress oversees our

[13:40] intelligence agencies. And there were

[13:43] chaotic scenes in the Mexican Congress

[13:45] today when the new president took

[13:47] office. Lawmakers from both main parties

[13:49] were involved in fist fights. The

[13:51] fighting reflects the deep divisions in

[13:54] Mexico after the presidential election.

[13:57] Two more cases of radiation poisoning

[13:59] from pelonium 210 have been confirmed in

[14:02] Britain. And that is the same rare

[14:04] radioactive element that killed a former

[14:07] Russian spy. Paula Newton joins us live

[14:09] with the very latest from London. Paula.

[14:12] Kitty. Um, one of the people involved

[14:14] here is actually the wife, the widow of

[14:16] Alexander Lechvvenenko. She apparently

[14:18] has tested positive for pelonium 210 in

[14:21] very minute traces. Um, and add to that

[14:24] another close associate of Alexander

[14:26] Lechenko, one that's involved in this

[14:28] whole mystery. Tonight, uh, London

[14:30] Hospital confirmed that he in fact is

[14:33] also infected.

[14:35] The patient in question is Mario

[14:39] Scaramela who met with Mr. Le Litben

[14:43] Litmano on November the 1st before Mr.

[14:47] Litmano was admitted to this hospital.

[14:51] Tests have detected pelonium 210 in Mr.

[14:56] Scaramela's body but at a considerably

[14:59] lower level than Mr. Lit Venenko.

[15:05] Now, what that means, Kitty, is that

[15:06] these levels are so low, doctors are

[15:08] hoping that in fact it will just come

[15:10] out of the body naturally without

[15:12] harming any internal organs. In the

[15:14] meantime, though, this investigation

[15:15] continues, Kitty, and more um places in

[15:18] London are being uh tested for

[15:21] radiation. Again, it's always trace

[15:23] levels, but they did take some uh pretty

[15:25] dramatic precautions in evacuating a

[15:27] hotel in southern England today. And

[15:29] through all of this, Scotland Yard is

[15:31] still trying to figure out who killed

[15:33] Alexander Litraenko. This investigation

[15:35] continues. There are many different

[15:37] angles on it. And now here in Britain,

[15:39] they're saying that they will involve

[15:41] the Russian authorities and that the

[15:42] Russian authorities counter that they

[15:44] are fully prepared to cooperate. Kitty,

[15:46] thanks very much. Paula Newton, severe

[15:49] storms with powerful winds will move

[15:51] through the Northeast tonight, but

[15:53] across the rest of the country, the

[15:55] damage has already been done. Traffic

[15:57] slowed to a crawl in much of the plains

[15:59] and Midwest, including Oklahoma in this

[16:02] picture. Now, the governor of Kansas

[16:04] declared 27 counties disaster areas.

[16:07] Missouri plastered up to 18 inches of

[16:10] snow, forcing the closure of stretches

[16:13] of Interstate 70. A cargo plane skidded

[16:15] off the runway at Chicago's O'Hare

[16:18] airport, where hundreds of flights were

[16:20] cancelled there, stranding thousands of

[16:22] travelers. A new export X-ray security

[16:26] system that makes graphic images of

[16:28] passengers bodies is being tested by

[16:30] security officials. The technology

[16:32] hasn't been used much in the United

[16:34] States because of privacy concerns over

[16:37] the detailed images the machine

[16:39] produces. The Transportation Security

[16:41] Administration officials say they have a

[16:43] way for the equipment to blur some

[16:45] areas, but they say it will still be

[16:48] effective in detecting weapons or

[16:50] explosives.

[16:52] The incoming Senate Judiciary Chairman,

[16:54] Patrick Lehey, pledges to take a closer

[16:57] look at the government's anti-terrorist

[16:59] screening systems. Now, for the past

[17:01] four years, Homeland Security's

[17:04] automated targeting system has given

[17:06] airline passengers a terror score. It

[17:09] rates passengers on travel information,

[17:12] including seat preference and what meals

[17:14] they order, and passengers are not

[17:16] allowed to know what their scores are or

[17:19] to challenge them. The government calls

[17:21] the ATS program critical to national

[17:24] security. Privacy advocates object,

[17:26] calling the system invasive. New

[17:29] evidence tonight of rising communist

[17:31] Chinese threat to this country.

[17:33] Communist China is stepping up its cyber

[17:35] attacks on US military targets.

[17:39] Chinese computer hackers attacked the

[17:41] computer system at the Naval War

[17:43] College. The intrusion was detected on

[17:45] November 15th and computer and email

[17:48] systems at the college have been

[17:49] completely shut down. The Navy would not

[17:52] comment on the source of the attack, but

[17:54] admitted there was an intrusion and the

[17:56] computer network was taken offline by

[17:58] the Navy Cyber Defense Operations

[18:01] Command. The affected systems were

[18:03] removed and are now being examined for

[18:06] forensic evidence. Knowledgeable sources

[18:08] believe the origin of the attack was

[18:10] from China and other experts point out

[18:13] that computer attacks are part of

[18:15] China's military strategy.

[18:17] >> Well, I don't think it's any great

[18:18] secret and and there's that China does

[18:21] do a lot of internet hacking and

[18:24] computer spying. Uh if you read the

[18:25] Chinese military doctrine, they talk

[18:27] about doing information worker. They

[18:29] talk about doing this as a matter of

[18:30] course. 2 days after the attack at the

[18:33] Naval War College, the Department of

[18:35] Defense raised its security alert level

[18:37] on its 12,000 computer networks and 5

[18:40] million computers. But DoD insists the

[18:43] two incidents are not related.

[18:47] Communist China, of course, is also

[18:49] trying to steal our most sensitive

[18:51] military secrets. Beijing has launched a

[18:53] huge military buildup to challenge US

[18:56] global power. Well, corporate America

[18:59] tonight is putting its business

[19:00] interests in China ahead of this

[19:02] country's national security. Some of the

[19:04] biggest US companies are trying to stop

[19:06] the commerce department from introducing

[19:09] tougher controls on exports to China.

[19:12] The government says those controls are

[19:14] necessary to prevent the Chinese

[19:16] military from acquiring US technology.

[19:19] There's new evidence tonight showing

[19:20] just how grim the picture is for

[19:22] American manufacturing. Using government

[19:24] numbers, the US Business and Industry

[19:26] Council reports that manufacturing in

[19:28] this country is being overwhelmed by

[19:31] cheap foreign imports. Bill Tucker

[19:33] reports.

[19:35] [snorts]

[19:36] >> 2005 was a bad year for auto parts

[19:38] workers. Jobs cut, pace slashed, and

[19:42] imports in the sector grew by more than

[19:44] 20%. The auto parts sector is not

[19:47] unique, and this is not a one-year

[19:49] trend. 110 manufacturing sectors lost

[19:54] market share to imports in the past

[19:55] seven years. Only four gained.

[19:58] >> Dozens and dozens of US manufacturing

[20:02] industries are experiencing the exact

[20:04] same kinds of market share losses in

[20:07] their home market that the US-owned

[20:10] automobile industry has been suffering

[20:12] in recent years, which has driven it to

[20:14] the brink of receiverhip. US

[20:16] manufacturing can't compete with the

[20:18] flood of imports. So more and more job

[20:21] opportunities that could have been

[20:22] created for American workers have gone

[20:25] to workers in other countries.

[20:27] >> It's a major buyer for all kinds of high

[20:29] value added at high wage services from

[20:32] engineering to law to accounting. So if

[20:35] we want to create goods jobs in this

[20:37] country, keeping the manufacturing

[20:39] sector vital is key to doing that.

[20:41] Imports now account for 46% of the

[20:44] computer market, 56 12% of the telephone

[20:47] switching market. The machine tool

[20:49] industry has been decimated with imports

[20:52] dominating more than 78% of the sector.

[20:55] Industries in that group are necessary

[20:57] to the building of sophisticated

[20:59] equipment like jet engines and engine

[21:00] parts, which may explain why imports in

[21:03] that sector spiked from a 40% share in

[21:06] 1997 to a 62% share last year. Most

[21:10] people have thought of what's gone on

[21:12] here for the last number of years is uh

[21:14] you know they tend to think it's oh it's

[21:16] it's just those people with those

[21:17] low-end factory jobs. It's not. It's

[21:18] very skilled workers in our

[21:20] manufacturing facilities.

[21:21] >> Despite the job losses and the mounting

[21:24] trade deficit, the National Association

[21:26] of Manufacturers doesn't agree that

[21:28] manufacturers are in bad shape.

[21:32] However, NAM does agree that the playing

[21:34] field is now tilted in favor of imports.

[21:37] Alan Donaldson of USB calls what's

[21:39] happening to American manufacturing

[21:41] kitty a slow motion bloodbath.

[21:43] >> It's just tragic. Thanks very much, Bill

[21:46] Tucker. Well, we invited the National

[21:48] Association of Manufacturers onto this

[21:50] program to address the incredible

[21:52] deterioration of the manufacturing

[21:54] industry and the toll it takes on middle

[21:56] class American workers. The National

[21:58] Association of Manufacturers declined

[22:00] our invitation, citing what was

[22:02] described as a scheduling conflict. The

[22:05] invitation stays open. The value of the

[22:08] dollar has fallen sharply against other

[22:09] currencies this week, particularly

[22:11] against the euro and the yen. The

[22:13] sell-off reflecting deep concerns about

[22:16] the staggering US trade deficit and the

[22:18] massive budget deficit. Major reason for

[22:21] the trade deficit is the commitment of

[22:24] successive administrations to so-called

[22:26] free trade policies. Those policies have

[22:28] allowed imports from cheap overseas

[22:31] labor markets to flood into the country.

[22:33] Millions of well-paid middle class jobs

[22:35] have been lost in both manufacturing and

[22:38] services. Still ahead, a melee at

[22:41] Mexico's presidential inauguration. I'll

[22:43] ask our political panel what that offers

[22:46] for the effectiveness of the nation's

[22:47] new leadership and heroes. Tonight, we

[22:50] turn to our lens to a soldier who

[22:52] insists on being sent to the front lines

[22:55] in Iraq. We'll be back in just a moment.

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[25:13] Joining me now, three of the brightest

[25:15] political minds in the country.

[25:16] Columnist for the New York Daily News,

[25:18] Michael Goodwin, editor of

[25:20] opinionjournal.com, James Toronto, and

[25:22] Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman.

[25:25] Gentlemen, always pleasure and we have a

[25:27] lot to talk about this week. Let's start

[25:29] with the Iraq Study Group because that

[25:30] seems to be the the big topic and

[25:32] hanging over this whole week actually

[25:34] without any real defined results from

[25:37] this. Um what's your view of the sort of

[25:40] Iraq study group effect and will it

[25:43] really shape policy going forward?

[25:45] >> I think it's going to have a very

[25:46] significant effect. You know, Kenneth

[25:48] Pollock of the Brooking Institute

[25:49] pointed out there aren't solutions to

[25:52] this quagmire, this tragedy, this

[25:54] colossal policy error, but there are,

[25:57] while there may not be solutions, there

[25:58] are choices. And the Iraq study group at

[26:01] least makes clear that in fact this is

[26:04] not going to be an open-ended engagement

[26:07] and there has to be a commitment to

[26:08] bring about a resolution. Of course, the

[26:10] problem is President Bush has repeatedly

[26:13] failed to follow up on that point. And

[26:15] in fact, he has not turned down the

[26:16] concept of having a permanent base in

[26:18] the region. And he has put the and he

[26:21] has through his policies made it clear

[26:22] that we're in for the duration.

[26:24] >> As long as we're quoting President Bush,

[26:26] let's uh turn to something he said

[26:27] yesterday about Iraq. Let's listen to

[26:29] it.

[26:31] >> So, we'll be in Iraq

[26:33] until the job is complete

[26:36] at the request of a sovereign government

[26:38] elected by the people. I know there's a

[26:40] lot of speculation that these reports in

[26:43] Washington mean there's going to be some

[26:44] kind of graceful exit out of Iraq.

[26:49] We're going to stay in Iraq to get the

[26:50] job done so long as the government wants

[26:52] us there.

[26:53] >> James, doesn't it set up the possibility

[26:55] that we could be at odds? The president

[26:57] versus the Iraq Study Group. Uh well, in

[27:00] some ways uh given what we've heard

[27:01] about what the Iraq study group says, I

[27:03] certainly hope so because uh uh one of

[27:05] the things that is said is that we're

[27:07] going to the Iraq study group is going

[27:09] to recommend essentially uh relying on

[27:11] the goodwill of the Syrian and Iranian

[27:13] regimes. And that's a recipe for

[27:15] disaster. I mean, these are not regimes

[27:16] you can run. For some reason, relying on

[27:18] the goodwill of these dictatorial and in

[27:21] Iran's case, crazy regimes is considered

[27:23] realism. It's about as unrealistic as

[27:25] you can as you can get. Mhm. It does

[27:27] somewhat legitimize regimes that are

[27:30] labeled as rogue regimes.

[27:32] >> I think one of the problems I had too

[27:34] still is whether the Iraqi government

[27:36] can do what we want it to do. Everyone

[27:38] seems to be suggesting that Maliki

[27:40] really just is kind of dogging it that

[27:42] he's just not making any effort that

[27:43] he's maybe corrupted in some way or he's

[27:46] weak. I don't I'm not sure he can do

[27:48] what we expect him to do, which is to

[27:50] crack down on the death squads. Uh he

[27:52] may simply be unable. it may really not

[27:54] even be a government as we understand a

[27:56] government. So I think that has yet to

[27:57] be tested.

[27:58] >> The other issue too is whether he has

[27:59] the will to do it and that also is an

[28:02] important point. One of the most

[28:03] disturbing aspects of President Bush's

[28:05] press conference with president with the

[28:06] prime minister was the fact that he

[28:08] refused to place any any demands on on

[28:11] Prime Minister Maliki regarding what

[28:14] timetlines he would meet and deadlines

[28:16] he would meet. And just to James' point,

[28:18] no one is referring to the goodwill of

[28:21] Iran or Syria. But we but as sen former

[28:24] secretary of state Baker said it does

[28:26] take strength to have a dialogue. It

[28:28] takes courage to dialogue. Certainly we

[28:30] were not relying upon the goodwill of

[28:31] the evil empire when Ronald Reagan sat

[28:33] down with them. Yet it proved to be

[28:34] effective.

[28:35] >> There is though a fine line between

[28:36] President Bush seeming to dictate to Al

[28:39] Maliki. That that is a very fine line

[28:42] and something that he has to worry about

[28:44] not undercutting his authority. The

[28:46] bigger problem is whether we're going to

[28:47] make a whether we're going to be an

[28:49] occupying power in the region or whether

[28:51] in fact we're going to in fact pursue

[28:53] another agenda which is to bring

[28:55] stability to the region and we're not

[28:56] going to do it as long as the Iraqi army

[28:58] knows that we're there to to fight the

[29:00] battle for them.

[29:01] >> Well, I don't think we're going to do it

[29:02] by having quote unquote dialogue with a

[29:04] country that says it's going to wipe

[29:05] Israel off the map. I mean, come on.

[29:06] Let's be uh let's be realistic here for

[29:08] crying out.

[29:09] >> That's exactly what we have to be is

[29:10] realistic. And President Bush, the

[29:12] reason we're in this mess is because

[29:13] President Bush has been totally

[29:14] unrealistic in his assumptions and his

[29:16] conclusions there.

[29:17] >> I I I I think the notion that somehow

[29:18] there's a button we can push, if only we

[29:20] can do the right thing, everything will

[29:21] be okay. It's much too complicated for

[29:24] that. There really is a regional issue

[29:26] and there are real weaknesses within

[29:27] Iraq and I'm not sure that the Iraqi

[29:30] government can do anything right now and

[29:32] that is on ultimately the problem. We

[29:35] cannot extract or or redeploy anything

[29:37] that the Democrats want to call unless

[29:39] the Iraqi government can maintain

[29:40] security.

[29:40] >> One thing I found very encouraging was

[29:42] today there was a remarkable article in

[29:44] the New York Times that said essentially

[29:45] everyone agrees now that there's not

[29:46] going to be a quick pull out of Iraq.

[29:48] This is actually the third such article

[29:50] that's appeared in the New York Times,

[29:51] the voice of the liberal establishment

[29:53] since the election. There's not going to

[29:55] be a redeployment. We're not going to

[29:56] cut and run and go to Okinawa as as Jack

[29:58] Murtha crazily suggested a few months

[30:00] ago. Cut and run turned out to be bait

[30:01] and switch. James, the no one is no one

[30:03] has ever said there'd be a fast

[30:05] redeployment. In fact, the proposal that

[30:07] Jack Murtha put forward with Senator

[30:08] Kerry was giving a year's redeployment.

[30:10] General Casey now is talking about 12 to

[30:12] 18 months. The strate Carl Lean is

[30:15] pushing a four to six month plan.

[30:17] >> But the point is there's a recognition

[30:19] that we cannot have an open-ended

[30:21] commitment to the region.

[30:22] >> But that's not recognition. That's a

[30:24] real specific reason.

[30:25] >> But redeploying. Well, first of all, the

[30:26] date had a lot of caveats in it

[30:28] depending upon how they were doing

[30:29] >> as most Democratic plans do. Well,

[30:31] actually, most realistic plans do. The

[30:33] goal here is to make sure that we do

[30:35] begin to to begin to remove our soldiers

[30:38] from fighting in the middle of a civil

[30:39] war. And it takes President Bush the

[30:41] courage to acknowledge we are in a civil

[30:43] war.

[30:43] >> And by the way, just to be faithful to

[30:45] the historical record here, Jack Murtha

[30:47] at his famous press conference did say

[30:48] immediate. He later denied that that was

[30:50] what he meant. I guess it was another

[30:51] Bosch joke.

[30:52] >> Uh timets aside, there is some creative

[30:54] thinking going on um about who to talk

[30:56] to. We have Al-Hakim coming into

[30:58] Washington. there's a reaching out to

[31:00] other leaders in Iraq. Do you think that

[31:03] perhaps there is a formula that that the

[31:05] right combination of talks and and we

[31:07] could cobble together some sort of

[31:09] arrangement or do you think this is an

[31:10] exercise in futility?

[31:11] >> In fact, Ambassador Satderfield, who is

[31:13] a leading foreign policy expert for the

[31:15] a leading State Department official

[31:16] regarding Iran, has indicated that the

[31:18] administration is prepared to dialogue

[31:20] informally with Iran. So clearly there

[31:22] are going to be dialogues that have to

[31:24] take place. It would be very uh

[31:26] worrisome though if our government

[31:28] started taking sides in this civil war

[31:29] and that's what worries me about this

[31:30] discussion.

[31:31] >> You know, I really want to get to Mexico

[31:33] because it was way too interesting a

[31:34] week and and what a fiasco the swearing

[31:37] in was. Um what do you make of the

[31:39] situation on on the southern border

[31:41] here?

[31:41] >> You know, I have to tell you I I can't

[31:43] help but reflect upon our election in

[31:45] 2000 and I admire Al Gore more and more

[31:48] for the patriotism he showed by unifying

[31:51] behind the winner and it speaks to the

[31:52] strength of our government. this

[31:54] happened. [laughter]

[31:54] >> Yeah, Michael, the Democrats are such

[31:57] heroes.

[31:58] >> I'm glad you're picking that up.

[32:01] >> Well, [laughter]

[32:01] wait. I'll I'll I'll second that. Three

[32:03] cheers for Al Gore, but uh Lopez

[32:05] Oberdor, the loser in the Mexican

[32:07] election, is following advice that was

[32:08] given by a former Gore adviser, Ron, in

[32:10] a Washington Post oped back in July

[32:12] entitled, "Don't take the high road."

[32:14] This after an election. I mean, okay,

[32:16] maybe questionable things went on in

[32:17] Florida. the Mexican election, the

[32:19] actual vote, everyone said it was the

[32:20] fairest uh bestrun vote in history just

[32:23] about and uh you know we see uh sort of

[32:28] some American Democrats, not Al Gore,

[32:30] thank goodness, uh kind of living

[32:32] vicariously through what's going on in

[32:33] Mexico.

[32:34] >> Any thoughts on Mexico? [laughter]

[32:35] >> Well, it it does appear that the country

[32:37] is unraveling somewhat now. I I hope

[32:39] that that doesn't keep happening. I hope

[32:41] that kind of pulls itself back because

[32:43] there are serious problems not just with

[32:45] the US border, but within Mexico itself.

[32:47] That's what's causing the the flood of

[32:49] immigrants to the United States. So

[32:51] hopefully Mexico will pull itself

[32:52] together.

[32:53] >> All right, gentlemen. We have to call it

[32:54] quits for at least this week. James

[32:56] Terrano, Robert Zimmerman, Michael

[32:58] Goodwin, thank you.

[32:59] >> And coming up shortly here on CNN, the

[33:01] situation room with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf

[33:03] >> Kitty, thank you. X-ray Vision looking

[33:05] through your clothes at the airport. The

[33:07] newest tool in the war on terror and

[33:09] we'll find out why some privacy groups

[33:11] are now calling it a virtual strip

[33:13] search. Also, party crash. Senator John

[33:16] McCain upstages a potential rival for

[33:18] the White House. The posturing beginning

[33:20] for 2008. Plus, Congressman John Murtha

[33:23] on redeploying US troops in Iraq. Will

[33:26] hear his tough words for the White House

[33:28] in my one-on-one interview. An election

[33:30] brawl, presidential politics getting

[33:32] down and dirty. Jeannie Mos on the

[33:35] story. All that Kitty coming up at the

[33:37] top of the hour.

[33:38] >> Thanks, Wolf. A reminder now to vote in

[33:40] tonight's poll. Do you believe the new

[33:42] US citizenship [music]

[33:43] test should be easier or harder? Cast

[33:45] your vote at ludobs.com and we'll bring

[33:47] you the results in [music] just a few

[33:49] minutes. Still ahead tonight, we'll have

[33:50] the results of the poll and also our

[33:52] tribute to the nation's heroes, meet a

[33:55] member of the 101st Airborne Division

[33:57] who is determined to fight adversity and

[34:00] exceed expectations.

[34:03] [music]

[34:10] Do you believe in ghosts? Our guest,

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[36:27] Now, heroes are tribute to the men and

[36:30] women in uniform serving this nation

[36:32] around the world. Army Specialist

[36:34] Maxwell Ramsay was determined to serve

[36:36] his country, and now he's even more

[36:38] determined to overcome adversity. Lisa

[36:40] Sylvester has his story.

[36:44] Maxwell Ramsay joined the army at the

[36:46] age of 35 after a successful civilian

[36:49] career. He reached a point in life when

[36:52] he realized it's important to show up

[36:54] and be of service. He signed up for

[36:56] infantry because he wished to be on the

[36:59] front lines in Iraq.

[37:00] >> I didn't want to be I didn't want to be

[37:02] a co a cog in the middle of the machine.

[37:04] I want to be, you know, the blade at the

[37:06] end of the cog, if you will. An army

[37:08] specialist with the 101st Airborne, he

[37:11] was flown into Ramani in the Alanbar

[37:13] province, the most dangerous in the war

[37:15] zone. 5 months after landing in Iraq,

[37:18] out on a mission to check the progress

[37:20] of a school being built, his convoy was

[37:23] ambushed. An IED exploded. The uh blast

[37:26] went through the up armor and a big

[37:28] chunk of it went through my knee of my

[37:30] left leg and uh the truck got lifted off

[37:33] the ground like four or five feet and I

[37:35] got lifted out of the turret 3 or 4

[37:37] feet.

[37:38] >> Max knew he was hurt badly and he had

[37:40] his own quiet conversation with God.

[37:43] >> The body works 60% harder when you lose

[37:46] a leg.

[37:47] >> Months later, he's learned many lessons,

[37:49] including how to walk again.

[37:51] >> Getting used to the feeling of having a

[37:53] prosthetic leg. Um because it's a

[37:56] completely alien feeling. You have no

[38:00] proprioception of where your false foot

[38:03] and leg are actually are in space. Max

[38:06] is using horses from the army's famed

[38:08] old guard to rehabilitate. The feel of a

[38:11] horse mimics a walking motion and

[38:13] teaches balance. He's also logged hours

[38:16] of physical therapy. Max says he's a

[38:18] doer, not a watcher. Walk may be

[38:21] difficult, but he can still soar.

[38:24] skydiving.

[38:25] >> It reaffirmed

[38:27] that

[38:29] you can do anything if you put your mind

[38:31] to it. Um, I don't know if I actually

[38:33] was able to live that fully before my

[38:37] experience in the army and experience

[38:39] with combat in Iraq and experience

[38:41] recovering from the injury.

[38:42] >> His experience has only strengthened his

[38:44] resolve to do more, to go further and

[38:47] exceed [music] expectations.

[38:49] Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.

[38:54] Max Ramsey hopes to remain on active

[38:56] duty and rejoin his unit at Fort

[38:58] Campbell, Kentucky, where they are

[38:59] holding a place for him on the parachute

[39:02] demonstration team. And we [music] wish

[39:03] him the best. Still ahead, the results

[39:06] of tonight's poll, some of your

[39:07] thoughts. Stay with us.

[39:10] >> Tonight, 700 p.m. Eastern, Iraq War

[39:13] critic, Congressman John Murtha. Does he

[39:15] have a better plan? Find out his advice

[39:17] for President Bush tonight in the

[39:19] situation.

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[41:43] The results of tonight's poll. 94% of

[41:45] you think the US citizenship test should

[41:47] be harder. Just 6% of you said it should

[41:49] be easier. Here's some more of your

[41:51] thoughts. Now, Fred in Georgia wrote to

[41:53] us on the citizenship exam. An applicant

[41:55] only has to get six out of 10 answers

[41:58] correct with multiple correct answers

[42:00] per question. This makes my driver's

[42:02] test look difficult. And Roger from

[42:04] Minnesota writes, "I did not vote the

[42:06] Democrats in to give illegal aliens

[42:08] amnesty. I thought they were for working

[42:10] Americans." Maria in Connecticut writes,

[42:13] "The way I see it, eventually employers

[42:14] will have to increase the minimum wage

[42:16] with the cost of everything else going

[42:18] up. If wages wages don't increase, there

[42:21] will be few people able to purchase the

[42:23] stuff that corporate America tries to

[42:25] sell to us. Larry in Oklahoma, if this

[42:28] is a country by the people and for the

[42:30] people, how can Congress give themselves

[42:32] a pay raise without the people's

[42:33] approval? Shouldn't we be able to vote

[42:35] on the issue? And Don from New York

[42:38] writes, I read that a quote I read quote

[42:40] today that describes politicians. A

[42:43] politician thinks of his next election a

[42:45] statesman of the next generation. Send

[42:48] us your thoughts at lud dots.com and

[42:50] each of you whose email is read here

[42:51] will receive a copy of Lou's bestselling

[42:53] book, War on the Middle Class. Thanks

[42:56] for being with us tonight. Please join

[42:57] us tomorrow and Sunday for Lou Dos this

[43:00] week at 6 p.m. Eastern. For all of us

[43:02] here, have a great weekend. Good night

[43:04] from New York. The Situation Room starts

[43:07] right now with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf,

[43:10] >> thanks very much, Kitty. And to our

[43:11] viewers, you're in the situation room

[43:13] where new pictures and information are

[43:14] arriving all the time. Standing by CNN

[43:17] reporters across the United States and

[43:19] around the world to bring you tonight's

[43:21] top stories happening now, laying the

[43:24] groundwork for an exit strategy from

[43:27] Iraq. It's 700 p.m. here in Washington,

[43:29] where a bipartisan panel may be on the

[43:31] brink of setting an ambitious goal. I'll

[43:33] ask a leading war critic, Congressman

[43:35] John Murtha, if he expects a withdrawal

[43:38] sooner rather than later. Also this

[43:40] hour, X-ray vision at the airport. It's

[43:44] 5:00 p.m. in Phoenix, where a

[43:45] controversial weapon in the war on

[43:47] terror soon will be in use. Will it help

[43:49] protect you, or will it invade your

[43:52] privacy by bearing all? And a pastor and

[43:55] a politician embrace one another and

[43:57] leave some Christian conservatives cold.

[44:00] It's 4 p.m. in California where Senator

[44:02] Barack Obama and Evangelical leader Rick

[44:05] Warren joined forces today despite the

[44:07] fallout. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the

[44:10] situation room. Tonight,

[44:27] growing questions about the political

[44:29] future of the Iraqi leader President

[44:31] Bush says he has so much confidence in.

[44:33] Prime Minister Nuriel Maliki's problems

[44:35] at home could overshadow and even

[44:37] undermine any new efforts here in the

[44:39] United States to try to find a way out

[44:41] of Iraq. Right now, the White House is

[44:44] reaching out to another powerful figure

[44:46] within the country in its urgent

[44:48] scramble to solve the Iraq problem.

[44:50] Abdul Aziz al-Hakim is scheduled to meet

[44:53] with the president here in Washington on

[44:56] Monday. He's a top Iraqi Shiite leader

[44:59] with close ties to Iran. Now, let's get

[45:02] more on the latest power plays inside

[45:04] Iraq.

[45:06] Joining us now, our correspondent in

[45:08] Baghdad, Nick Robertson. Nick, you're

[45:10] there. You're on the ground. You're

[45:11] meeting with top Iraqi leaders right

[45:14] now. Give us a sense how desperate their

[45:17] mood might be. Right now, there's real

[45:20] concern, Wolf. They were hoping that the

[45:22] Prime Minister Malik's visit with

[45:24] President Bush in Jordan would produce

[45:26] perhaps some changes, something new.

[45:29] That hasn't happened. Clearly a lot of

[45:31] politicians here now see the pressure

[45:33] being on Prime Minister Maliki to deal

[45:35] with Muktada also the firebrand Shia

[45:38] cleric deal with his large unruly medi

[45:40] militia who are accused in some cases of

[45:43] being part of the death squads killing

[45:45] people here in Iraq. He is under

[45:47] pressure to deal with them to disarm

[45:48] them and a lot of the politicians here

[45:50] say that is impossible for Prime

[45:52] Minister Maliki to do. His power base is

[45:55] built on Mukta al-Sada, built on these

[45:57] people. Some people very senior in the

[45:59] government here now believe it is time

[46:01] for a change of uh in the government at

[46:04] this time. They don't believe that Prime

[46:06] Minister Maliki can last a lot longer.

[46:09] Um there is of course support for the

[46:11] prime minister, support for him if he's

[46:13] going to push ahead with this. Uh

[46:14] certainly that is what we've been

[46:16] hearing uh from uh from the United

[46:19] States side. President Bush saying he'll

[46:21] give Prime Minister Maliki all the

[46:22] support he can have. We've heard about

[46:24] additional troops being moved to Baghdad

[46:26] to help support the Iraqi government, to

[46:28] help support Prime Minister Maliki. But

[46:30] the wide and broad assessment here among

[46:33] the leadership of politicians is that

[46:35] this is a very challenging job and one

[46:37] perhaps perhaps that Mr. Maliki can't

[46:39] achieve. Well, and there are some

[46:41] analysts here in Washington uh who are

[46:43] telling me, Nick, that events on the

[46:45] ground seem to be spiraling out of

[46:47] control and irrespective of whatever

[46:49] recommendations the Iraq study group

[46:51] comes up with, any specific military

[46:53] steps the US may make, it it might be a

[46:56] case of too little too late. The

[46:58] rationale here is that that is very

[47:00] possibly the case that whatever the

[47:03] study group has has envisioned for Iraq

[47:06] may be coming too late. maybe because

[47:08] they began their study earlier this year

[47:10] that events have changed so much over

[47:12] the last six or seven months. Um, but

[47:15] the real the real concern is is that the

[47:18] pressure that's being put on this

[47:20] government is a load that it can't bear.

[47:22] That MTA also's militia, to go back to

[47:25] that issue, has grown so large in the

[47:27] past year since the time when the study

[47:29] group began its study. Um, that it's too

[47:32] hard to disarm and disable

[47:35] despite everyone's best efforts.

[47:37] politically they can be the the radical

[47:39] elements in it can be isolated that

[47:41] perhaps Mktara Assad can still be

[47:43] brought on board but you still have to

[47:44] deal with all those armed militants with

[47:46] the weapons wolf Nick be careful over

[47:48] there Nick Robertson in Baghdad thank

[47:50] you

[47:52] all this comes just days before the

[47:54] bipartisan Iraq study group is due to

[47:56] deliver its recommendations to Mr. Bush.

[47:58] The Washington Post reports the panel

[48:00] will call for a conditional goal of

[48:02] withdrawing almost all US combat units

[48:05] from Iraq, as many as 70,000 troops by

[48:08] early 2008. Sources close to the study

[48:11] group have told CNN a specific timetable

[48:14] will be proposed in the report which is

[48:16] scheduled to be released on Wednesday

[48:18] and we'll have extensive coverage all

[48:20] day Wednesday on that. Amid all of this,

[48:23] the commander of the US military central

[48:25] command is staying focused on the

[48:27] military mission in Iraq. CNN and an

[48:30] Pentagon correspondent Barbara Star has

[48:33] this exclusive report. Barbara Wolf,

[48:36] we're traveling with General John

[48:38] Abbisade in Iraq, but tonight due to

[48:41] security concerns, we cannot say our

[48:43] exact location. On his way into Iraq,

[48:46] General John Abisade huddles with his

[48:48] advisers, reviewing the latest

[48:50] information about the sectarian violence

[48:52] that is tearing this country apart. He

[48:55] strongly believes that the violence in

[48:57] Iraq cannot be dealt with in isolation.

[49:00] That Hezbollah in Lebanon and Iran's

[49:03] growing backing of insurgent groups both

[49:06] pose threats the US must deal with while

[49:09] it continues to fight in Iraq. and

[49:11] Abisay dismisses any talk that the US

[49:14] military is ready to abandon its efforts

[49:17] in the most violent areas of western

[49:19] Iraq's Alanbar province.

[49:21] >> We have to put our priorities on where

[49:22] our operationalists need to be just like

[49:25] any military force. But uh the only

[49:28] people that are writing this country off

[49:30] seem to be people that are uninformed

[49:33] and uh really haven't studied the

[49:35] situation. Abisade arrives here just

[49:37] days before the Iraq study group is

[49:40] scheduled to make its recommendations.

[49:42] Here on the ground, there is growing

[49:44] anticipation that President Bush will

[49:46] now order an accelerated turnover of

[49:49] security to the Iraqis. But there is no

[49:52] question that turnover in Alanbar and in

[49:55] Baghdad is months away. Baghdad for now

[49:58] remains the central front in this war.

[50:01] More US troops may be headed to the

[50:03] capital in the days ahead. Abbisade is

[50:06] taking a long-term view.

[50:08] >> You can't do all things at all times,

[50:09] but you can have an effect. You can

[50:11] stabilize the country. Uh you can

[50:13] improve the Iraqi security forces over

[50:16] time.

[50:16] >> General Abbisade is determined to stay

[50:19] out of the political fray and continue

[50:21] to focus on the military strategy for

[50:23] Iraq. Wolf

[50:25] >> Barbara Star reporting from the region

[50:26] for us. Thank you very much. Let's get

[50:28] some more now on Iraq. Jack Caferty with

[50:31] the Cafferty File. Jack,

[50:33] >> uh, as Wolfe just told you a couple of

[50:34] minutes ago, the 10 member Iraq Study

[50:36] Commission will be out with its report

[50:37] next week. Uh, one of the things that's

[50:39] been leaked to the press is that they're

[50:41] going to call for the reduction of US

[50:43] combat troops by 2008. Uh, the, uh,

[50:46] question is, do you believe that nearly

[50:47] all US combat units will be out of Iraq

[50:49] by 2008? Send your thoughts to

[50:52] caffeilecn.com or go to cnn.com/cafile.

[50:56] Wolf,

[50:57] >> there's going to be a lot of commotion

[50:58] next Wednesday on that, Jack. Thank you

[51:00] very much. Uh coming up uh tonight, a

[51:03] possible thaw possible thaw in the

[51:05] relationship between the United States

[51:08] and Iran. We're watching this story very

[51:10] closely. Five plus years after 9/11,

[51:14] foreign students are now returning to

[51:16] United States college campuses in much

[51:18] bigger numbers. And that's something the

[51:20] State Department is making a priority,

[51:22] including speeding up the visa process

[51:24] for those students. Earlier right here

[51:27] in the situation room, I asked assistant

[51:29] secretary of state for educational and

[51:31] cultural affairs Dena Powell if this

[51:34] effort includes students from Arab and

[51:36] Muslim countries, including Iran. And

[51:39] she made news.

[51:42] >> This week is the first time that we have

[51:44] restarted our exchange programs with

[51:46] Iran.

[51:47] >> So we're letting students come in. There

[51:49] is a group of medical officials that are

[51:51] participating in an exchange program.

[51:53] the first time since 1979 that we've

[51:55] resumed exchanges with the Iranian. How

[51:56] many are involved? Uh we have over a

[51:58] dozen involved and we have many more

[52:00] planned over the coming months. And in

[52:02] fact, this is part of President Bush's

[52:04] desire to show that uh we really do uh

[52:06] want to learn more about the rich

[52:08] history and tradition and culture of the

[52:10] Iranian people. And so we are so pleased

[52:12] that these participants came. And I'll

[52:14] tell you something, the medical

[52:15] professionals on our side that have met

[52:16] with them keep talking about what

[52:18] they're learning about the medical

[52:19] advances in Iran. You know, well, the

[52:21] talent in Iran. Sounds potentially like

[52:23] it's an early exchange, an exchange of

[52:25] students, uh, journalists, athletes,

[52:28] whatever. Remember, pingpong diplomacy

[52:30] is practiced in the early days in the

[52:32] thaw between the United States and

[52:34] China. Is that what's happening with the

[52:35] US and Iran right now?

[52:36] >> It is. We are working hard and you know

[52:38] there's a two track uh two tracks going

[52:40] on and there is the clear policy issues

[52:42] that we're working on with the nuclear

[52:44] issue and the international community is

[52:45] speaking quite loudly that Iran ought to

[52:48] take the offer on the table that you

[52:49] know well on. But on this other side,

[52:51] yes, we want to reach out to the Iranian

[52:53] people. We want to engage them in a

[52:55] mutual dialogue, and this is a way to

[52:56] show how much we want to do it, and

[52:58] we're so thrilled they've agreed to

[52:59] participate, and we hope uh that we'll

[53:01] continue these programs.

[53:03] >> Assistant Secretary of State Dina Powell

[53:05] speaking with me here in the situation

[53:06] room earlier today, suggesting that

[53:09] there are some movements, are some

[53:11] developments in trying to ease this

[53:13] relationship between the United States

[53:15] and Iran. We're going to stay on top of

[53:17] this story, especially next week when

[53:19] this report comes out, uh, this

[53:20] bipartisan report that may may call for

[53:23] direct talks between the United States

[53:25] and Iran and Syria for that matter as

[53:28] well. Coming up, my interview with

[53:29] Congressman John Murtha. He wants US

[53:31] troops out of Iraq sooner rather than

[53:33] later. And he has some very tough words

[53:35] for the White House. Also, their

[53:37] politics are very different, but a

[53:39] common cause has one of the country's

[53:41] best known evangelical leaders embracing

[53:44] Democratic Senator Barack Obama. Plus, a

[53:47] day of ceremony marred by violence, pop,

[53:49] and chaos as Mexico's new president is

[53:52] sworn in. CNN's Jeannie Mos takes a

[53:54] look. Stay with us. You're in the

[53:56] situation room.

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[56:34] >> Today is World AIDS Day, and many are

[56:36] marking it with some sober ceremonies

[56:39] and solemn pledges to do more to battle

[56:42] the disease. But one anti- AIDS event is

[56:44] raising eyebrows, not because of its

[56:46] purpose, but because of its

[56:48] participants. CNN's Delma Gutierrez is

[56:51] joining us from Lake Forest in

[56:52] California with more. Delma.

[56:55] Well, there was quite a bit of

[56:57] controversy leading up to Senator Barack

[56:59] Obama's visit here today. Some

[57:01] conservative Christians did not want the

[57:03] pro-choice senator to take the church

[57:06] pulpit.

[57:08] [applause]

[57:09] With an embrace from evangelical pastor

[57:12] Rick Warren and an enthusiastic applause

[57:15] echoing through Saddleach Church,

[57:17] >> thank you so much. Thank you. Senator

[57:19] Barack Obama took to the pulpit, but his

[57:21] appearance at what was called the global

[57:23] summit on AIDS and the church was

[57:25] anything but usual.

[57:29] [music]

[57:29] >> To begin with, the Democratic senator

[57:31] from Illinois stood before an audience

[57:33] of 2,000, many evangelical church

[57:36] leaders from across the country who

[57:38] could be described as his political

[57:40] foes, adamantly opposed to Obama's

[57:42] political positions on abortion and

[57:44] embryionic stem cell research. He has an

[57:47] evil outlook when it comes to the human

[57:51] race.

[57:51] >> In fact, Rick Warren took heat from some

[57:54] conservative Christians for inviting

[57:55] Obama to speak at the summit and was

[57:57] urged to resend the invitation. But

[57:59] Warren wouldn't budge, saying he invited

[58:01] Obama and Republican Senator Sam

[58:04] Brownback of Kansas to talk about AIDS

[58:06] in the spirit of nonpartisanship. I

[58:08] said, you've seen the face of this

[58:11] compassionate conservatism and the face

[58:13] of compassionate liberalism. And what we

[58:15] have in common is compassion.

[58:17] >> But it's this shot of Obama at the

[58:19] pulpit holding hands with notable

[58:21] evangelical leader Rick Warren that

[58:24] worries some Christian conservatives.

[58:26] >> A photo is worth a thousand words, and

[58:28] that's really all he needs uh for his uh

[58:31] presidential campaign.

[58:33] >> USC political analyst Kareem Kraton

[58:35] agrees. It certainly plays into the very

[58:38] argument that got him on the public

[58:40] radar to begin with, that there's no red

[58:42] or blue America, they're the United

[58:43] States of America.

[58:44] >> Love your neighbors yourself.

[58:46] >> If Obama is able to reach across the

[58:48] political divide and attract an

[58:50] evangelical following, analysts say he

[58:53] will have accomplished what few

[58:54] Democrats have so far been able to do.

[58:57] popped up piles.

[59:00] >> Now, Rick Warren and Senators Obama and

[59:02] Brownback all took AIDS tests today

[59:05] before the cameras. They all had their

[59:07] cheeks swab, they say to show just how

[59:10] easy it is and focusing all the

[59:11] attention back on the AIDS issue. Wolf,

[59:14] >> and what was his basic message of Barack

[59:16] Obama when he spoke to this group?

[59:19] >> Well, you know, he said that it's

[59:21] important for everyone to get involved,

[59:23] that this is not a b a partisan issue.

[59:26] This is something that involves each and

[59:28] every person. It's an international

[59:29] issue and it's something uh that that uh

[59:33] requires everyone to take part in. And

[59:36] he basically uh reached out to to the

[59:38] folks here. He says we don't have to

[59:40] agree on everything, but we should all

[59:42] join together on this one issue.

[59:44] >> All right, Dalma Gutierrez, thanks very

[59:46] much for that. Barack Obama clearly on

[59:49] the move right now. Meanwhile, there are

[59:50] new developments regarding two other

[59:53] presidential prospects. It involves

[59:54] Senator John McCain, who recently stole

[59:57] the spotlight from one person he might

[59:59] eventually need to upstage in 2008.

[60:02] Let's turn to CNN's Carol Costello for

[60:04] details. Carol. Wolf. It's like when you

[60:06] were in high school and you were reing

[60:08] in being the cool person, hosting a cool

[60:10] party to increase your rep, and then the

[60:12] captain of the football team shows up

[60:14] and you become the kid at the back of

[60:16] the room again.

[60:18] war hero, esteemed senator, creator of

[60:21] the Straight Talk Express, and now party

[60:24] crasher.

[60:26] >> It is an honor to be able to introduce

[60:27] him to you, Senator John McCain.

[60:31] >> Thank you, Lincoln. Thank you very much.

[60:33] >> A lovely introduction, but the spotlight

[60:35] was supposed to shine on Massachusetts

[60:37] Governor Mitt Romney. It was his event.

[60:40] After all, it was the Republican

[60:42] Governor's Association meeting, and he's

[60:44] the chairman. Last time we checked, John

[60:46] McCain is not a governor and never was.

[60:49] But there he was, charming his fellow

[60:51] Republicans with his signature folksy

[60:53] style.

[60:54] >> Would you be too old to be president of

[60:55] the United States?

[60:56] >> Well, Ronald Reagan wasn't. And I'd like

[60:58] for you to meet my 94 year old mother

[61:00] that just came back from driving herself

[61:02] around France.

[61:03] >> So, age is not an issue.

[61:04] >> I am older than dirt. More scars than

[61:06] Frankenstein, but I've learned a few

[61:08] things along the way.

[61:09] >> And where was Governor Romney? He was

[61:12] standing at a podium at Miami's Posh

[61:14] Dural Golf Resort talking to about half

[61:16] his invited guests and getting

[61:18] absolutely no TV coverage. All the

[61:20] cameras were on McCain who commandeered

[61:23] a room at the same resort to host almost

[61:25] a dozen Republican governors, including

[61:28] Florida's Governor Electric Christ.

[61:30] Welcome to the first volley in the 2008

[61:33] Republican primary.

[61:34] >> I think it was a smart political move.

[61:36] There was a significant gathering of of

[61:38] important Republicans. Um it was a

[61:40] chance to show his political strength um

[61:42] and he clearly was able to do that um

[61:45] and also do it in a way to contrast

[61:46] himself to a potential opponent Mitt

[61:49] Romney.

[61:50] >> And indeed John Weaver, Senator McCain's

[61:52] senior political adviser, told us a

[61:54] number of governors have committed to

[61:56] John, but we are not ready to announce

[61:58] them yet. Governor Romney wasn't playing

[62:00] the potential presidential nominee game.

[62:02] His office telling us today we have no

[62:04] comment, but some experts say he should

[62:07] have been playing the game. And they say

[62:09] the fact of the matter is all

[62:10] Republicans who want to be the

[62:12] presidential nominee should have been

[62:14] there.

[62:16] >> This is just an illustration of how

[62:17] aggressive John McCain is seeking his

[62:19] fellow Republican support. And Mitt

[62:21] Romney, who hasn't announced he's

[62:23] running, well, it's perhaps an example

[62:25] of what he'll face in 2008. Wolf,

[62:27] >> the politics of the political season

[62:29] just ended, but guess what? It's already

[62:31] beginning again. Thanks very much,

[62:33] Carol, for that. There's this additional

[62:35] note. a source close to Senator Evan B

[62:38] says he will take the first formal step

[62:40] toward a potential White House run. The

[62:42] Indiana Democrat will file papers for a

[62:44] presidential exploratory committee. The

[62:46] source says Bay will make a final

[62:48] decision on whether or not to run after

[62:50] the first of the year. Still to come

[62:53] tonight, right here in the situation

[62:54] room, the Iraq study group poised to

[62:56] make recommendations on the war and

[62:58] redeploying US troops. Will it be enough

[63:00] to satisfy war critic and military

[63:03] veteran Congressman John Mura? I'll ask

[63:05] him. Plus, the Venezuelan President Hugo

[63:08] Chavez explaining what was behind that

[63:11] infamous comment he made at the United

[63:13] Nations when he called President Bush

[63:16] the devil. Stay with us. You're in the

[63:19] situation room.

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[66:04] >> Funny man Louis Black rants and raves at

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[66:08] 9 Eastern.

[66:11] >> Venezuelans head to the polls this

[66:12] Sunday and President Hugo Chavez is

[66:14] almost certain to win re-election. He's

[66:16] apparently as popular at home as he is

[66:18] unpopular with so many people in this

[66:21] country. Here to show us why, our State

[66:23] Department correspondent Zayn Verie.

[66:25] Zayn

[66:26] >> Wolf Ugo Chavez is a thorn in the side

[66:28] of the US, but polls in Venezuela show

[66:31] that that's going to continue.

[66:34] >> He made headlines when he stood before

[66:36] the United Nations and called President

[66:38] Bush the devil.

[66:45] >> It still smells like sulfur.

[66:47] >> Ugo Chavez now says he was speaking off

[66:50] the cuff.

[66:54] I didn't plan to call him a devil, but

[66:56] it came from my heart. And if it comes

[66:58] from my heart, then that's because for

[67:00] me, it's true. Chavez's comments annoyed

[67:03] the US, but they went over well in

[67:06] Venezuela, where many believe their

[67:07] president is standing up to what they

[67:09] see as American imperialism. A recent AP

[67:13] Ipsos poll of both registered and likely

[67:16] voters finds 59% approve of the way

[67:19] their president handles foreign policy

[67:21] and 63% say they have a negative view of

[67:25] President Bush. But Venezuela's

[67:27] ambassador says there's more to the

[67:29] Chavez revolution than just

[67:30] anti-American rhetoric.

[67:32] >> But Venezuela is presenting an

[67:35] alternative model to the Washington

[67:37] consensus. Herrera says only the elite

[67:40] are represented in US democracy and that

[67:43] free trade will not solve the problems

[67:44] of the poor in Latin America.

[67:46] >> We have a different view of many things

[67:49] in the world, but we are not enemies of

[67:51] the US.

[67:52] >> The US says it's Chavez who's out of

[67:54] touch.

[67:55] >> We have a view of the hemisphere that we

[67:56] believe is shared by the people of the

[68:00] hemisphere and by the vast majority of

[68:04] countries that countries out there.

[68:06] Despite all the tough talk, the US is

[68:08] Venezuela's biggest oil customer. And

[68:11] that plays right into Chavez's hand.

[68:13] >> We should understand him, I think, for

[68:15] what he is, and that is a populist uh

[68:18] showman um who has the advantage of

[68:22] having an enormous amount of oil um and

[68:25] is able to play the populist card and

[68:29] command intention on THE INTERNATIONAL

[68:31] STAGE.

[68:33] BUT CHAVEZ, set to win Sunday's

[68:35] election, is likely to continue

[68:37] confronting the US. Experts say the US

[68:40] shouldn't take the bait.

[68:41] >> That we need to deescalate the rhetoric

[68:43] and essentially constructively ignore

[68:45] Ugo Chavez and get about the business of

[68:47] dealing with the real issues um that are

[68:49] affecting US policy in the Americas.

[68:52] >> Other experts say the US needs to find

[68:54] ways to communicate with Chavez, saying

[68:57] that you really won't have any influence

[68:58] if you don't talk. Well,

[69:00] >> we'll be watching these elections on

[69:02] Sunday. Uh Zayn, thanks very much. Hugo

[69:05] Chavez is about to be reelected

[69:07] presumably, but we'll watch. Just ahead,

[69:09] the Iraq Study Group reportedly ready to

[69:11] call for withdrawing nearly all combat

[69:14] combat troops by early 2008. Congressman

[69:17] John Murtha wants it done sooner. My

[69:19] interview with the decorated military

[69:21] veteran. That's coming up next. Plus, a

[69:23] high-powered scanner that leaves little

[69:26] to the imagination. We're going to show

[69:28] you why it's becoming so controversial

[69:30] right now. You're going to want to see

[69:32] this. Stay with us. You're in the

[69:34] situation.

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[72:08] Tonight on 360, a country at the

[72:10] crossroads, the Pope under fire,

[72:11] reaction to Pope Benedict's visit to

[72:13] Turkey and his encounter with Islam. Is

[72:16] it healing any wounds or making things

[72:18] worse? A 360 [music] special. When two

[72:20] faiths collide, tonight 10:00 a.m.

[72:22] Eastern.

[72:24] To our viewers, you're in the situation

[72:26] room where new pictures and information

[72:27] are arriving all the time. happening

[72:30] now. The season's first big snowstorm

[72:33] closes in on the northeastern part of

[72:35] the United States after pounding the

[72:37] Midwest. At least six deaths are blamed

[72:39] on the icy weather. There's more than a

[72:41] foot of snow in some areas by car or

[72:44] plane. Many people aren't going anywhere

[72:47] very fast. The nation's largest Roman

[72:50] Catholic arch dasis will pay $60 million

[72:53] to settle 45 sexual abuse lawsuits. It's

[72:56] the biggest payout yet by the LA Arch

[72:58] Dasis. Cardinal Roger Mahoney says it's

[73:01] time for healing and reconciliation. And

[73:04] hundreds of thousands of Hisba

[73:06] supporters took to the streets in Beirut

[73:08] today. They want Lebanon's prime

[73:10] minister out, but he says he has no

[73:13] plans to resign without a no confidence

[73:15] vote in the parliament. I'm Wolf

[73:17] Blitzer. You're in the situation room.

[73:22] Tonight,

[73:34] anticipation is building for the Iraq

[73:36] study group to deliver its

[73:37] recommendations to President Bush next

[73:40] week. Lawmakers of both parties are

[73:42] likely to zero in on parts of the report

[73:44] dealing with exit strategies and

[73:47] possible target dates for a US

[73:49] withdrawal.

[73:51] Joining us now are powerful voice in the

[73:53] push to try to bring the troops home,

[73:55] Democratic Congressman John Murtha of

[73:57] Pennsylvania. Congressman, thanks very

[73:58] much for coming in. Nice to be here,

[74:00] Wolf.

[74:01] >> The outlines are coming out of what this

[74:04] bipartisan study group is going to do.

[74:06] We don't know the specific details yet.

[74:08] It's a 100page document, but based on

[74:11] what you've read, what you've heard so

[74:12] far, the general uh outlines, what do

[74:15] you think? Well, I talked to Leon Petta

[74:17] today and and if you remember a year

[74:19] ago, I said uh we need to redeploy as

[74:22] soon as practable and I said stress

[74:24] diplomacy. Then the public spoke and at

[74:26] the time I spoke out about 50% of the

[74:28] public supported what what I was saying.

[74:30] Now 60% of the public supports what I've

[74:33] been saying and they spoke very clearly

[74:34] in the election. Now the commission is

[74:36] saying let's redeploy. Let's change the

[74:38] policy of stay the course to

[74:40] redeployment. The problem, as I

[74:42] understand it, and I haven't seen your

[74:43] report either, uh, Wolf, but the problem

[74:46] is, they say it depends on the

[74:48] circumstances on the ground. Well, if it

[74:50] depends on circumstances of ground, it's

[74:52] a lot not a lot different than what

[74:54] President Bush is saying. And then

[74:55] President Bush says he's going to ignore

[74:57] it anyway. Now, we have to have a change

[74:59] in policy here, and that's what we're

[75:01] going to work on all this year, trying

[75:02] to work with this president and trying

[75:04] to reduce our our number of troops in

[75:07] Iraq and do it as soon as practicable.

[75:08] Leon Petta, a former White House chief

[75:11] of staff under President Clinton, OM

[75:13] director, former member of the House

[75:15] himself. Did he give you any sense of uh

[75:18] how specific though they might be in

[75:20] terms of a timeline?

[75:21] >> Well, he he he said I think the end of

[75:24] 2008 have all the troops out, but that

[75:26] that's unacceptable.

[75:27] >> But you mean all the troops are just the

[75:28] combat troops because half of the troops

[75:31] are combat troops. The other are support

[75:32] troops or trainers.

[75:34] >> Yeah, that that's true. He said he said

[75:35] combat troop, but but that is

[75:37] unacceptable to me. We're costing $8

[75:39] billion a month, Wolf. Uh since I spoke

[75:43] out, there were 400 attacks a day. Now

[75:45] there's 800 attacks a day. All the

[75:47] measurements which you and I have talked

[75:49] about before. Oil production,

[75:50] electricity production below pre-war

[75:53] level. The Iraqis want us out of there.

[75:55] The world wants us out of there. We have

[75:57] to find a way to redeploy the troops,

[75:59] and we have to do it sooner rather than

[76:01] later. Now, we have to work on it this

[76:04] year. I'm going to meet with with the

[76:05] White House officials uh sometime next

[76:08] week and try to convince them that it's

[76:10] just not going well. It's it's not going

[76:12] to be better. The commissioner or the

[76:15] Kissinger came out with the same type of

[76:17] thing in in the 1960s and three years

[76:20] later we got out of there, but we lost

[76:22] 20,000 troops. We're just not making the

[76:25] progress. And then they say, "Well, we

[76:27] need 300,000 Iraqis trained." Then then

[76:30] they say, "We need a 100,000 more Iraqis

[76:32] trained." They keep changing the

[76:33] guidelines. That's the problem with this

[76:35] this report.

[76:36] >> Here's what the president said the other

[76:38] day, and he seemed to be speaking to you

[76:39] and other critics when he said this.

[76:41] Listen to this.

[76:43] >> I've been asked about timets ever since

[76:46] we got into this. All timetables mean is

[76:49] that it uh it it it it is a timetable

[76:53] for withdrawal. You kept asking me those

[76:55] questions.

[76:57] All that does is hold on a second.

[77:00] All that does is set people up for

[77:03] unrealistic

[77:05] expectations.

[77:06] >> All right. You want to respond to Yeah.

[77:08] I I tell you, Wolf, he he misses the

[77:11] whole point. The public has spoken. The

[77:13] world has spoken. This is not a

[77:15] dictatorship. This this is a democracy.

[77:18] We have to do what's best for America.

[77:21] They keep saying there'll be ma more

[77:22] chaos. The the secretary designate said

[77:26] if we leave there'll be more cha. I

[77:27] don't agree with that. I think there'll

[77:28] be less chaos. I think we have caused

[77:31] some of the chaos by being in Iraq.

[77:33] We're going to have less terrorism if we

[77:35] reduce if we redeploy our troops and we

[77:38] should redeploy them as quickly as

[77:39] possible. So, I need to see the whole

[77:41] report. They say in the report no

[77:43] permanent bases and some other things

[77:45] like that. Well, uh that's fine. I agree

[77:47] with that. Uh we we need to get these

[77:49] supplementals out of the way uh and

[77:51] start putting the funding for this bill

[77:53] in the base bill. All those kind of

[77:55] things we're going to change next year.

[77:57] We can have a dramatic influence on

[77:59] what's happening here if we do it right.

[78:01] But we want to work with this

[78:02] administration to redeploy the troops

[78:04] and we want to do it as soon as

[78:05] possible.

[78:06] >> Does the United States have a

[78:07] responsibility to protect those Iraqis

[78:10] who cooperated with the United States,

[78:12] who worked with the United States, and

[78:14] who now clearly fear if the US pulls

[78:16] out, which is what you want, they're

[78:18] going to be vulnerable to attack, they

[78:20] could be killed.

[78:21] >> Let let me tell you something. We have

[78:22] to do what's best for America. That's

[78:24] what our diplomacy is all about. Uh we

[78:27] made a lot of mistakes in this war. We

[78:28] made a mistake by going in. No al-Qaeda

[78:30] connection, no connection, no weapons of

[78:32] mass destruction and and the the

[78:34] handling of the occupation has been

[78:36] dismal. Every everybody admits that

[78:38] that's all kinds of mistakes. But but

[78:40] for us to stay when it's getting worse

[78:42] every day is is irresponsible. And and

[78:45] so we need to find a way a a center. We

[78:49] need to give the Iraqis the incentive.

[78:50] They have no incentive. They're living

[78:52] in the green zone. The the the prime

[78:54] prime minister is living in a green

[78:55] zone. He comes out every once in a while

[78:56] to meet with people, but but he's being

[78:58] protected by American troops. We need to

[79:00] say to him, "Let the Iraqis protect

[79:02] him."

[79:02] >> Congressman, what do you say to Senator

[79:04] John McCain or Lindsey Graham or John

[79:06] Cornin who say the United States can

[79:08] still win in Iraq, but it would require

[79:10] deploying perhaps another 50,000

[79:12] American forces to go in there and get

[79:15] the job done.

[79:16] >> Uh I I say it's impossible to find

[79:19] 50,000 troops to send in there for the

[79:21] amount of time it would take. I just met

[79:23] with the with the deputy uh uh chief of

[79:26] staff of the army today. I said, "What

[79:28] what's our strategic reserve look like?"

[79:30] And he said the same thing I've been

[79:31] saying. We have no strategic reserve. We

[79:34] have no ability to to find those troops

[79:36] to go over there for that extended

[79:38] period of time. We can't sustain that

[79:40] kind of a deployment. So that's

[79:41] unrealistic to even make those kind of

[79:43] comments.

[79:44] >> Any hard feelings over Stenny Hoyer

[79:46] becoming the majority leader? You're

[79:47] losing that position. Well, we'll we'll

[79:50] keep working at where we are to try to

[79:52] try to get this war out of the way.

[79:53] That's all over. Now we're we're working

[79:55] trying to get the troops redeployed.

[79:57] >> We saw that photo op when he started to

[79:59] speak. You sort of walked away. Uh there

[80:01] was interpretation. You were irritated.

[80:03] Are you still irritated?

[80:05] >> Let me tell you. Well, if you want to

[80:06] talk about Iraq, I'm glad to talk about

[80:07] it. Uh uh I I gonna work with Nancy and

[80:11] work with with the majority trying to

[80:12] get our troops home as soon as possible.

[80:14] >> You don't want to talk about working

[80:15] with Steny Hoyer? You heard what I said,

[80:18] Wolf.

[80:19] >> Okay, I'll leave it at that. Uh,

[80:20] Congressman, always good to speak with

[80:22] you. Thanks very much.

[80:24] >> Clearly irritated. Up ahead tonight, new

[80:26] fears of more radiation contamination in

[80:30] Britain. The investigation into who

[80:31] killed a former Russian spy deepens as

[80:35] his uh widow now tests positive for the

[80:37] same radioactive substance. And punches

[80:40] are thrown, chairs are flying, an

[80:42] inauguration so combative the new

[80:44] president had to sneak in the back door

[80:46] to get sworn in. Stay with us. You're in

[80:48] the situation.

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[83:37] >> CNN's Christian Armenpor. She covers the

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[83:55] In Britain, new developments in the

[83:56] investigation into the death of that

[83:58] former Russian spy killed with a

[84:00] radioactive poison. CNN's Matthew Chance

[84:03] reports.

[84:06] >> Yet another dramatic turn in this

[84:08] increasingly complex poison plot. This

[84:12] the face of Mario Scaramela now being

[84:14] treated in a London hospital after

[84:16] confirmation he too is poisoned with

[84:19] radiation. the kind that caused an

[84:21] agonizing death for his friend, former

[84:24] Russian spy Alexander Lit Bin Yenko.

[84:27] >> Tests have detected pelonium 210 in Mr.

[84:31] Scaramela's body, but at a considerably

[84:35] lower level than Mr. Lit Vinenko.

[84:40] He is currently well and shows no

[84:43] symptoms of radiation poisoning.

[84:46] A key figure in the police

[84:48] investigation, Scaramela is the Italian

[84:50] contact who met Lithenko in a London

[84:53] sushi bar on November the 1st, the day

[84:56] he fell sick. He was once a consultant

[84:58] to an Italian parliamentary commission

[85:01] set up to investigate allegations of

[85:03] past KGB influence in Italian politics.

[85:06] He told that Vignenko he found a secret

[85:09] Russian hit list included both their

[85:11] names. So, I passed him a couple of uh

[85:14] of uh papers and I said, "Alex, I'm here

[85:18] also to ask you a comment because I

[85:21] received a a an alarm in the last few

[85:25] days from uh from a source you

[85:28] introduced to me."

[85:29] >> But confirmation he is also contaminated

[85:32] raises important questions. Was he

[85:34] poisoned at the same time as that

[85:35] Vignenko? Was he contaminated through

[85:38] contact with his friend? or should he

[85:40] now be considered a suspect?

[85:42] >> Well, I think any of them is possible

[85:44] really. It it seems hard to imagine to

[85:46] me that he's got severely contaminated

[85:50] from Lip Vinenko from any casual

[85:52] contact. So, it seems likely he's mixed

[85:55] up in it significantly.

[85:57] >> But what of the contaminated aircraft

[86:00] still grounded for forensic tests?

[86:02] Neither Scaramera nor Litman Yenko went

[86:05] anywhere near them. Someone else must

[86:07] have been involved. The now completed

[86:10] autopsy is unlikely to answer these

[86:13] questions, nor is it likely to prove

[86:15] Lidenko's dying claim that he was

[86:18] poisoned by his longtime foes in the

[86:20] Russian government. In a cruel twist,

[86:23] tests have confirmed Litenko's widow,

[86:25] Marina, pictured in the middle, is also

[86:28] contaminated with what doctors say are

[86:30] very small traces of the same poison,

[86:34] intensifying concern that these victims

[86:37] may not be the last.

[86:40] Well, well, thousands of people have now

[86:41] been tested for possible radiation

[86:44] contamination across uh Britain, but

[86:46] only those two individuals that came

[86:48] into close contact with Alexand

[86:50] Alexander Lit Vignenko have let been

[86:52] have has yet been confirmed as actually

[86:55] being contaminated. The British

[86:57] government makes the point consistently

[86:59] that the risk as far as they're

[87:01] concerned to the general public for

[87:03] contamination is pretty low. Wol.

[87:05] >> All right. Thank you, Matthew. uh

[87:07] Matthew Chance in in London. Let's get

[87:09] some more on this very important story.

[87:11] Our senior medical correspondent Dr.

[87:13] Sanjay Gupta joining us. You had a

[87:15] chance today Sanjay to look at this this

[87:18] radioactive poison palonium 210. What

[87:21] did you see?

[87:22] >> Well, it it's remarkable because

[87:23] remember this is a high energy low

[87:25] penetration substance. I'm actually

[87:27] holding it there. Uh we're working on a

[87:28] special for Monday night. Uh but you

[87:30] know, we talked so much about the fact

[87:32] that if you ingest it or inhale it, it

[87:34] can be deadly. But as you see, I can

[87:36] hold this in my hand like I am right now

[87:38] because it really can't even cross the

[87:39] skin. As we've talked about for for for

[87:42] some time now, highly lethal, but only

[87:44] in those two forms, ingested and

[87:46] inhaled. It exists all around us, Wolf.

[87:48] That's one thing to keep in mind. This

[87:50] is a rare element, but it does does

[87:52] exist in natural places. It is naturally

[87:54] occurring. So, it is if you look for it

[87:56] hard enough, you're going to find it as

[87:57] they do in several places. Wolf.

[87:59] >> So, what does it do if it if it gets

[88:01] into your body uh that potentially could

[88:03] kill you? Well, what this is is a is a

[88:05] very high radiation source. So, it does

[88:08] several things. If you swallow it, for

[88:10] example, gets into your small intestine

[88:12] and subsequently gets into your liver.

[88:14] You can see the the pictures there. When

[88:16] it gets into your liver, that's sort of

[88:18] a clearing house for the body. It gets

[88:20] into the bloodstream subsequently and

[88:22] just reres havoc throughout the body. It

[88:24] gets in bone marrow. It it basically

[88:26] attacks all quickly reproducing cells.

[88:29] So you lose your hair, you become quite

[88:31] nauseated, you start vomiting, you have

[88:33] weight loss. Uh someone can look like a

[88:35] cancer patient within a couple of weeks

[88:37] of being exposed to something like this

[88:39] because of all those radiation effects.

[88:41] Well,

[88:41] >> well, what about all those thousands of

[88:43] people, maybe tens of thousands of

[88:44] people who flew on those British Airways

[88:47] jetliners uh that showed some signs,

[88:50] tiny signs of radioactivity? How worried

[88:52] should they be and what should they do?

[88:54] >> There's a couple of points about that.

[88:56] First of all, I think primarily this is

[88:58] a precaution for the reasons I just

[89:00] outlined for you, Wolf. You saw me

[89:01] holding the stuff in my hand. It'd be

[89:03] very hard for it to actually contaminate

[89:05] somebody just by touching it. It just

[89:06] doesn't penetrate the skin. Really won't

[89:08] even penetrate a piece of paper. So, I

[89:10] think it's primarily a precaution. The

[89:11] other thing I want to point out is even

[89:13] flying transnational

[89:15] flight, you get enough radiation on an

[89:17] airplane that's equivalent to a chest

[89:18] X-ray. So, there is some radiation that

[89:20] always exists on airplanes. Uh they're

[89:22] looking for it now, Wolf. So, I think

[89:24] that they're finding it. Sanjay, thanks

[89:25] very much. Uh, and this note to our

[89:27] viewers, tune in to Anderson Cooper 360

[89:30] Monday for an in-depth special on the

[89:32] poisoning of the Russian spy. Sanjay

[89:35] will be involved in that as well. Up

[89:36] ahead, new developments in Mexico's

[89:38] contested presidential election. The

[89:41] swearing in turns into a swearing at.

[89:44] Plus, our Brian Todd will show you a

[89:46] very candid camera, very candid,

[89:48] designed to scan airline passengers. Is

[89:51] it revealing more than you wanted to

[89:53] show? Stay with us. You're in the

[89:56] situation.

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[92:11] The weather is the news. Trust CNN. It's

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[92:44] >> They won't see it coming.

[92:47] >> In this age of heightened terror

[92:49] awareness, what would you be willing to

[92:50] do to stay safe? Right now, there's a

[92:52] new technology whose goal is to protect

[92:54] you by seeing almost all of you. Let's

[92:57] turn to CNN's Brian Todd. Brian?

[93:00] >> Well, some of the most contentious

[93:01] battles in the war on terror are those

[93:02] fought over the issues of security

[93:04] versus privacy. Well, get ready for

[93:06] another one of those battles at a US

[93:08] airport just in time for the holidays.

[93:11] At Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport, the

[93:14] newest weapon in the war on terror that

[93:16] can see through clothes carrying

[93:18] explosives already used on more than a

[93:20] million passengers abroad. These special

[93:23] X-rays can catch all kinds of

[93:24] contraband,

[93:25] >> regular weapons, guns, knives, box

[93:27] cutters, and the like, but also un

[93:30] unusual types of weapons, explosives,

[93:32] liquid explosives, gels. The images will

[93:34] look like this. Outlines of the body,

[93:37] not in detail, but weapons and other

[93:39] items do show up. This technology has

[93:42] been very controversial because until

[93:44] recently, it was much more invasive. In

[93:46] August, I went through a so-called back

[93:48] scatter machine. I was advised that if I

[93:51] didn't want my private areas shown, I

[93:53] should put a metal plate in my pants. I

[93:56] step just in front of the machine, turn

[93:58] around. In just a few seconds, the

[94:00] monitor displays my humble contours.

[94:03] Now, in this test, I'm playing the role

[94:04] of a would-be terrorist. I try to hide a

[94:07] plastic lipstick container in my vest

[94:09] pocket. Busted. I sneak a sports drink

[94:12] bottle. Busted again. How about wires in

[94:15] a sealed sandwich bag hidden in my sock?

[94:18] On the monitor, they show up on my

[94:19] ankle. But the machines have

[94:21] limitations. When I pour water into a

[94:23] sealed sandwich bag, place it inside my

[94:26] belt line, and in a sock, you can barely

[94:28] see it. But one company behind this

[94:30] technology says train screeners would

[94:32] detect it. And the Transportation

[94:34] Security Administration says they have

[94:36] other methods to detect liquids. When

[94:38] this came out, privacy advocates called

[94:41] it a virtual strip search, and they're

[94:43] not much more satisfied with the newer

[94:45] technology.

[94:45] >> Essentially, they're putting a digital

[94:47] fig leaf on the image. This protects the

[94:50] image from what the operator will see,

[94:52] but the machine itself can still record

[94:54] all the detail and store that

[94:56] information for use at a later point.

[94:58] >> A TSA official tells CNN there won't be

[95:01] any hard drives to store the images and

[95:03] says no one will have access to pictures

[95:05] without the so-called fig leaf on them.

[95:08] From one passenger tested on the older

[95:10] machines,

[95:11] >> I've been through it over in Europe and

[95:13] I didn't like it.

[95:16] In Phoenix, an official with the

[95:17] Transportation Security Administration

[95:19] tells us the machine will only be used

[95:21] if more than a metal detector is

[95:22] required, so-called secondary screening,

[95:25] and passengers will then get a choice

[95:26] between those machines and patowns. Wolf

[95:30] >> Brian Todd reporting. Brian, thank you.

[95:32] Let's go to Jack in New York with the

[95:33] Cap File. Jack,

[95:34] >> question this hour is, do you believe

[95:36] nearly all US combat units will be out

[95:38] of Iraq by early 2008? That's expected

[95:41] to be the recommendation next week from

[95:42] the Iraq Study Group. Paul and Warren,

[95:44] New Jersey, writes, "Yes, but not

[95:46] because Bush has mercy on servicemen and

[95:48] taxpayers, but because without

[95:50] withdrawal, a Republican presidential

[95:52] candidate won't stand a chance." Ben in

[95:55] Washington, if Iraq is stable enough, we

[95:57] have no reason to stay beyond 2008. But

[96:00] if Iraq's still plagued by civil and

[96:01] political unrest, then we have to stay

[96:03] until Iraq is better. It's important to

[96:05] remember that how long we stay in Iraq

[96:07] should not be dependent on dates, but on

[96:09] what the state of Iraq is at the time we

[96:11] make the decision. Brian in British

[96:14] Columbia. I thought it was stupid to go

[96:15] into Iraq, but I think the last thing

[96:17] the US should do now is pull out. On the

[96:20] contrary, it ought to swamp Iraq with

[96:22] all the troops it can muster. Uh

[96:24] Michelle in Colorado Springs is a former

[96:26] US soldier and now the wife of one. I

[96:29] know there's a very good chance it's all

[96:31] a ploy to shut us all up for a while

[96:33] until the president can find another

[96:35] reason for us to stay until quote the

[96:37] job is done. I'll believe it when I see

[96:39] it. Brian in West Virginia. Interesting.

[96:42] The Bush administration times its events

[96:44] closely to elections. After we've

[96:46] sacrificed American lives to the war on

[96:48] terror, time to O2, the war in Iraq,

[96:50] time to 04. And now troop withdrawal,

[96:52] time to08. Seems to be an irony here.

[96:55] The problem is it's come at the cost of

[96:58] American lives, our economy, and our

[96:59] respect and image in the rest of the

[97:01] world. I'd like the administration to

[97:03] explain these coincidences to the

[97:05] families who've had children maimed and

[97:07] killed. And retired Navy commander Earl

[97:10] Callahan. And you could have said get

[97:12] out in 2018 or even 2028 and the answer

[97:16] would still be no. We're still in

[97:17] Germany after 61 years. If you didn't

[97:20] see your email here, go to cnn.com/caf

[97:23] file where you can read some more of

[97:24] these online. Wolf

[97:26] >> Jack, thanks very much. And to our

[97:27] viewers, don't forget Jack's weekend

[97:28] program, In the Money, Saturday, 100

[97:31] p.m. Sunday 300 p.m. Let's find out

[97:33] what's coming up at the top of the hour.

[97:35] Paula,

[97:36] >> thanks Wolf. Just about 5 minutes from

[97:37] now, we're going to go in depth on a top

[97:39] story you were talking about tonight in

[97:40] Homeland Security in the name of

[97:42] fighting terrorism. The government is

[97:44] now keeping score on every traveler who

[97:47] crosses our borders. We're going to see

[97:49] what goes into figuring out your score.

[97:52] A so-called immigration vigilante who

[97:54] was sued for taking the law into his own

[97:57] hands. The people he held at gunpoint

[97:59] weren't doing anything wrong. We'll see

[98:01] you at the top of the hour and plenty

[98:03] more. Plus the latest on that very

[98:05] bizarre poisoning case out of London

[98:07] tonight. Some new developments to talk

[98:08] about. Wolf,

[98:09] >> what a story there. Thanks Paula. I'll

[98:11] see you in a few moments. Still ahead

[98:12] right here in the situation room.

[98:14] Democracy in action. The kind of action

[98:16] you might though see in a boxing ring.

[98:18] Genie Mos won't pull any punches in

[98:20] telling this story. We'll be right back.

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[99:25] >> Where are you now, Daddy?

[99:26] >> I'm in Tokyo this time.

[99:29] >> Is Paris far away?

[99:31] >> Pretty far away.

[99:32] >> Um,

[99:34] [music]

[99:34] >> do you know where Spain is?

[99:36] >> Right under France.

[99:38] >> When are you coming home?

[99:39] >> I'll be home real soon.

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[100:57] >> Inauguration day in Mexico degenerated

[100:59] into a rockus brawl. Genieos has the

[101:02] playbyplay.

[101:04] >> This was supposed to be a swearing in,

[101:06] not a swearing out. But you can bet some

[101:08] swear words flew. Not to mention some

[101:11] chairs and a few punches here on the

[101:12] floor of Mexico's Congress.

[101:15] >> Hold on to your hat. Hold on to that

[101:18] guy. This is what happened as the winner

[101:20] of Mexico's disputed presidential

[101:22] election was supposed to take the oath

[101:24] of office and the opposition tried to

[101:26] spoil his day. The losers whistled,

[101:30] the winners chanted.

[101:35] >> And all that shoving happened and vivo

[101:38] live on Mexican TV for all to see.

[101:42] >> All this action makes inauguration day

[101:44] in the US seem wimpy.

[101:46] >> So help me God. US presidents have to

[101:48] contend with, say, a half- naked

[101:50] streaker protesting or an egg tossed at

[101:52] the presidential limousine. But they

[101:54] were trying to toss each other at

[101:56] Mexico's inauguration. The first

[101:59] President Bush was on hand for the

[102:01] Mexican ceremony. And look who else was

[102:03] invited. It's good action, Arnold said

[102:06] when reporters asked what he thought of

[102:08] the brawling. It was as if Arnold was

[102:10] striding in to terminate the fighting

[102:13] vistas.

[102:15] As the new Mexican president's motorcade

[102:18] headed for Congress, it bore a striking

[102:20] resemblance to a certain Bronco chase,

[102:22] barely escaping a fender bender.

[102:26] President Felipe Calder on finally

[102:28] entered the building and quickly took

[102:30] the oath of office.

[102:32] >> He dawned his sash and ordered the

[102:34] podium removed. Who says democracy is

[102:37] dignified? It looked like moving day at

[102:39] this inauguration. They managed to sing

[102:42] the national anthem.

[102:45] Then after staying a total of about five

[102:47] minutes, President Calderon was whisked

[102:50] away. One thing you can say about the

[102:52] Mexican brawl, it was tame compared to

[102:55] the Taiwanese brawl

[102:57] or the Russian brawl.

[103:00] >> What's a little gentle shoving compared

[103:02] to the infamous Czech politician slap?

[103:06] Genie Mo CNN New York.

[103:09] >> See you on late edition Sunday 11 a.m.

[103:11] Let's go to Paula in New York. Paula,

[103:13] >> we'll be looking for you. Well, thanks.

[103:14] And thank you all for joining us on this

[103:16] Friday night. As we wrap up the week,

[103:17] there's important news coming into CNN

[103:19] all the time. And tonight, we're

[103:21] choosing these top stories for a more

[103:23] indepth look. The top story in crime

[103:26] tonight, spreading poison and fear.

[103:29] Tonight, we know of more people and

[103:31] places contaminated with the radioactive

[103:33] poison that killed an ex-Russian spy.

[103:36] We're going to go in depth [music] on

[103:38] how widespread the crisis might get.

[103:41] Then on to the top story in Homeland

[103:43] Security. Somebody's watching you. The

[103:45] government reveals it's keeping score

[103:48] and actually comparing notes about every

[103:50] traveler who enters or leaves the US.

[103:52] And some people are outraged about that.

[103:56] Also, fighting AIDS, a remarkable

[103:58] gathering that sparked a whole lot of

[104:00] controversy is tonight's top story in

[104:02] health, religion, and politics. Let's

[104:05] get started with the top story in crime.

[104:07] the widening investigation and concern

[104:09] about radioactive contamination after

[104:11] the death of an ex-Russian spy. Today we

[104:15] learned that two more people were

[104:17] exposed to deadly palonium 210. A hotel

[104:20] in southern England was tested for it

[104:22] and an autopsy was performed on an exy,

[104:25] his name was Alexander, lived in Yenko

[104:28] who died from it. Matthew Chance has the

[104:30] very latest for [music] us now tonight

[104:32] from London.

[104:33] Yet another dramatic turn in this

[104:36] increasingly complex poison plot. This

[104:39] the face of Mario Scaramela now being

[104:42] treated in a London hospital after

[104:44] confirmation he too is poisoned with

[104:47] radiation. The kind that caused an

[104:49] agonizing death for his friend, former

[104:51] Russian spy Alexander Lipin Yenko.

[104:54] >> Tests have detected palonium 210 in Mr.

[104:59] Scaramela's body, but at a considerably

[105:02] lower level than Mr. Lit Venenko.

[105:07] He is currently well and shows no

[105:10] symptoms of radiation poisoning.

[105:14] A key figure in the police

[105:15] investigation. Scaramela is the Italian

[105:18] contact who met Lithenko in a London

[105:21] sushi bar on November the 1st, the day

[105:23] he fell sick. He was once a consultant

[105:26] to an Italian parliamentary commission

[105:28] set up to investigate allegations of

[105:30] past KGB influence in Italian politics.

[105:34] He told that Vignenko he found a secret

[105:36] Russian hit list included both their

[105:39] names. So I passed him a couple of uh of

[105:42] uh papers and I said, "Alex, I'm here

[105:46] also to ask you a comment because I

[105:49] received a a an alarm in the last few

[105:52] days from uh from a source you

[105:55] introduced it to me."

[105:57] >> But confirmation he is also contaminated

[105:59] raises important questions. Was he

[106:01] poisoned at the same time as Leenko? Was

[106:04] he contaminated through contact with his

[106:06] friend? or should he now be considered a

[106:09] suspect?

[106:10] >> Well, I think any of them is possible

[106:11] really. It seems hard to imagine to me

[106:14] that he's got severely contaminated from

[106:18] Lipino from any casual contact. So, it

[106:22] seems likely he's mixed up in it

[106:24] significantly.

[106:25] >> But what of the contaminated aircraft

[106:27] still grounded for forensic tests?

[106:30] Neither Scaramela nor Litenko went

[106:32] anywhere near them. Someone else must

[106:35] have been involved. The now completed

[106:38] autopsy is unlikely to answer these

[106:41] questions, nor is it likely to prove

[106:43] Litenko's dying claim that he was

[106:46] poisoned by his longtime foes in the

[106:48] Russian government. In a cruel twist,

[106:51] tests have confirmed Litenko's widow,

[106:53] Marina, pictured in the middle. He's

[106:56] also contaminated with what doctors say

[106:58] are very small traces of the same

[107:00] poison, intensifying concern that these

[107:04] victims may not be the last. Matthew

[107:07] Chance, CNN.

[107:08] >> So, Matthew, when you talk about these

[107:10] radioactive tracers, is that information

[107:13] getting investigators any closer to the

[107:16] source of this pelonium and and who

[107:18] might have planted it?

[107:21] >> Well, it's certainly uh making the span

[107:23] of this investigation much wider. Paula,

[107:26] what the British police have been doing

[107:28] is trying to retrace the steps of

[107:30] Alexander Litenko, that former KGB spy,

[107:33] trying to come into contact and

[107:35] interview people he may have met on the

[107:38] day that he was poisoning back poisoned

[107:40] back on November the 1st. But that has

[107:42] led that investigation in all sorts of

[107:45] unexpected

[107:47] directions, of course, to this

[107:49] individual Mario Scaramela, but also to

[107:52] Moscow as well. And so it is possible

[107:54] the British police could go to the

[107:55] Russian capital to interview people

[107:57] there as well.

[107:58] >> How much interest is there in this story

[108:00] in London? I know you had a lot of

[108:02] scared people who were among the 30,000

[108:04] or so who had flown on airliners that

[108:06] were also contaminated by palonium.

[108:09] >> I think there's a complete fascination

[108:11] with this story in London. It's it's a

[108:14] it's a really incredible thing when you

[108:16] think about it. the fact that not just

[108:19] this figure, this dissident from the

[108:21] Kremlin was assassinated apparently on

[108:24] on British soil, but that he was

[108:26] assassinated with such a a method that

[108:29] has contaminated so many people. It

[108:32] amounts to essentially one editor said,

[108:34] one commentator said to an explosion of

[108:38] a dirty bomb on the streets of London.

[108:40] And so this is something that is

[108:42] completely fascinating to people in this

[108:44] city and people all over this country.

[108:46] >> And have in investigators given you any

[108:49] better idea of how someone puts their

[108:51] hands on palonium? We had seen accounts

[108:53] as recently as yesterday suggesting it's

[108:55] pretty easy to track down on the

[108:56] internet, but that you need to buy a

[108:59] million dollars of it reportedly to do

[109:02] any damage.

[109:04] Well, one thing's for sure, it is an

[109:06] incredibly rare substance and only

[109:08] certain places in the world have the

[109:10] certain laboratories have the capability

[109:13] of of manufacturing it. But what I'm

[109:15] hearing from investigators is that once

[109:18] they uh manage to isolate some of this

[109:21] uh some of this palonium 210 and they

[109:23] can look at it very closely. They can

[109:25] see perhaps where it may have been

[109:27] manufactured and that may bring up

[109:29] another lead which could be a conclusive

[109:32] lead in this very complex investigation.

[109:35] Paula

[109:35] >> Matthew Chance, thanks so much for the

[109:36] update. As Matthew made very clear in

[109:39] his reporting, there are still so many

[109:41] questions tonight about palonium 210 and

[109:44] exactly how it can be used to kill

[109:46] someone. So, we asked Paula Newton in

[109:48] London to get us some of those answers.

[109:53] Palonium 210 is one of the rarest and

[109:55] most deadly materials on Earth.

[109:58] Scientists believe this is the first

[110:00] time it's been used as a murder weapon.

[110:02] Someone has apparently deliberately been

[110:05] poisoned with a type of radiation.

[110:07] Pelonium 210 is extracted from uranium

[110:09] and is highly radioactive. A fatal dose

[110:12] would almost certainly have been

[110:14] generated in a nuclear reactor under

[110:16] some form of government control.

[110:18] Palonium 210 is the result of a

[110:20] complicated chemical process, meaning it

[110:23] doesn't happen by chance. And nuclear

[110:25] physicists say the amount needed to kill

[110:27] is microscopic. It's a period on the

[110:30] newspaper

[110:31] >> and it'll kill you

[110:32] >> if you eat it.

[110:34] >> What happened to Alexander Leenenko is a

[110:36] medical first. When the palonium smaller

[110:39] than a grain of salt entered his body,

[110:41] it immediately traveled through the

[110:43] bloodstream and then to his stomach

[110:45] where it began to kill the cells in his

[110:47] gastrointestinal tract. From there, it

[110:50] attacked and destroyed vital organs. The

[110:52] alpha radiation is really dumped

[110:55] directly into extremely soft, extremely

[110:58] sensitive tissue and that's where major

[111:00] damage occurs.

[111:01] >> But despite the public health scare,

[111:03] pelonium is usually only dangerous if

[111:06] eaten or inhaled. It can't travel

[111:08] through skin or even through a piece of

[111:10] paper. Much like this experiment with

[111:12] plutonium.

[111:14] Despite that, scientists say this new

[111:16] form of killing device is very

[111:18] sophisticated. As lethal as pelonium is,

[111:21] it's actually pretty easy to transport

[111:24] safely. And more than that, it's almost

[111:26] impossible to detect unless you know

[111:29] what you're looking for. But now that

[111:31] investigators do know, they're finding

[111:33] that Lrenenko and perhaps whoever

[111:35] poisoned him were shedding traces of

[111:37] radioactive pelonium all over London,

[111:40] even on airplanes in and out of Britain.

[111:42] And that may be the killer's undoing.

[111:45] that will leave like a trail of

[111:46] breadcrumbs behind and you can track

[111:48] backwards and find them.

[111:49] >> So in a sense, palonium has significant

[111:52] fingerprint to it.

[111:52] >> Absolutely. Just like a DNA fingerprint.

[111:54] >> Palonium may not have been the perfect

[111:57] poison. Those close to Lithueno told CNN

[112:00] they believe the assassin got the dose

[112:02] wrong. They didn't give him enough to

[112:04] kill him quickly from massive internal

[112:06] bleeding. instead that Junenko's three

[112:09] weeks of chemical torture may provide

[112:11] the police with clues they need to catch

[112:14] his killer. Polit CNN London and we're

[112:18] going to bring in a top story panel

[112:19] right now. Novelist Nelson Deil. His

[112:22] latest book is Wildfire, but one of his

[112:24] earlier espionage thrillers, Charm

[112:26] School, dealt with characters who were

[112:28] forced to decide whether revealing a

[112:30] horrifying KGB operation would damage US

[112:33] Soviet relations. Also with me, former

[112:36] KGB Lieutenant Colonel Constantin Prio

[112:38] Jabenski, who was a friend of Lifenko

[112:41] and physicist Andrew Carum, an expert in

[112:45] radiation. Glad to have all of you with

[112:46] us tonight. Andrew, I'm going to get

[112:48] started with you. We now know that two

[112:50] more people have tested positive for

[112:52] exposure to this pelonium. How much

[112:56] concern is it that that uh web of

[112:59] exposure will increase to anybody having

[113:01] been near Mr. Deletoenko?

[113:04] Now, something like this can actually

[113:06] spread fairly easily, but just because

[113:08] you can detect it does not mean that

[113:09] it's dangerous. I can detect pelonium

[113:12] probably in my body if I try because

[113:13] it's something found in nature. But just

[113:15] because we can see it does not mean that

[113:17] anybody's at risk from it, aside from

[113:19] obviously the man who died.

[113:21] >> But clearly now that investigators have

[113:23] these positive tests, that's a very

[113:24] important clue to them finding out who

[113:26] potentially did the original poisoning.

[113:29] >> It could be. On the other hand, if it

[113:31] was administered as a fine powder, there

[113:33] may have just been traces of

[113:34] contamination, the same as you might see

[113:36] traces of contamination with say baby

[113:38] powder or something. It could be widely

[113:40] enough spread that these people could be

[113:42] some clues, but maybe not definitive.

[113:45] >> Constit

[113:47] the the victim very well. And I know you

[113:50] have said in the past he was well aware

[113:52] of the fact that he was on a hit list.

[113:55] Did he fear being poisoned?

[113:58] Well, of course, he could not predict in

[114:00] which way he could be killed. Uh but um

[114:04] the matter is why Putin preferred to use

[114:08] palonium. Uh because um he is not afraid

[114:13] of the reaction over the west anymore.

[114:16] Uh Putin does not depend on the public

[114:18] opinion of the west. West can do nothing

[114:20] on on Putin and on Russia. Now moreover,

[114:24] Putin can uh cut the oil pipes pipes for

[114:28] the west. That's why he afforded such a

[114:30] great international scandal.

[114:32] >> You you make it sound Constantine like

[114:33] you are absolutely 100% sure that

[114:35] Vladimir Putin was behind this attack.

[114:38] There were other theories circulating

[114:39] tonight that perhaps it's someone that

[114:41] wants to bring down his government. Why

[114:42] are you so convinced that Mr. Putin was

[114:45] behind this poisoning?

[114:46] >> Because palonium is something very

[114:48] secret. It's like a ballistic missile.

[114:51] Is it pos possible to use ballistic

[114:54] missile privately? No, I think it's

[114:56] impossible to use palonium either.

[114:59] >> And how would it have been administered?

[115:01] >> Well, um KGB is a military organization.

[115:04] It's not the same as CIA or in British

[115:08] Central Intelligence Service. It a part

[115:11] of Russia. It's a part of Russian army

[115:13] which is submitted to its highest

[115:17] commander uh Mr. Putin. uh in army uh

[115:20] all the orders are given by the highest

[115:24] commanders.

[115:25] >> Nelson, this is the the stuff of

[115:28] mystery, the stuff of novels.

[115:31] >> How realistic is it that Mr. Putin could

[115:34] have ordered this poisoning which of

[115:36] course we have no hard evidence yet

[115:39] >> but I but I do agree with Constantin on

[115:41] this. This is you know this is very a

[115:42] very rare element obviously and it's

[115:45] it's Putin sending a message. I mean

[115:47] this is coming from the highest levels.

[115:49] The KGB this is a modus operomy. They

[115:52] have killed dissident out of Russia uh

[115:55] since the 1930s when they when they

[115:57] killed Trosky. Uh they've killed you

[116:00] know Bulgarian dissident, Russian

[116:01] dissident. They have a a special branch

[116:03] in the KGB that they used to called

[116:05] Smurch which is an actual organization

[116:07] although made popular by James Pond that

[116:10] kill Russian dissident and other Soviet

[116:12] dissident outside the borders. So, you

[116:15] know, you could have there's another

[116:17] theory floating around as you said and

[116:19] Pep Buchanan put it forward that it

[116:20] looks so much like it's a setup or a

[116:22] frame up of Putin, but you know, my

[116:24] theory is as a novelist is if it looks

[116:26] like a duck and it quacks like a duck,

[116:27] it's a duck. This came from the KGB.

[116:29] >> Andrew, uh, tonight I know you don't

[116:32] want to add to the speculation here, but

[116:34] just a quick closing thought on the

[116:35] trace amounts of this stuff you say are

[116:37] found in a in a lot of places. How much

[116:40] pelonium do you need to do to really

[116:42] make somebody sick

[116:44] >> now? It takes about as much as the grain

[116:47] of salt weighs. So, not very much at

[116:49] all.

[116:50] >> It's one of the most toxic things we

[116:52] know of.

[116:52] >> And is there any doubt in your mind that

[116:54] uh we continue to report the story,

[116:56] we'll find a wider web of exposure here?

[117:00] >> I would certainly expect to find

[117:02] contamination in more and more places,

[117:04] but I think it's really important to

[117:05] repeat again that people are not going

[117:07] to be at risk. They're not going to get

[117:08] sick from trace amounts of

[117:09] contamination. It's something we can

[117:11] see, but it's not dangerous.

[117:13] >> Nelson Deil, Constantine, Prey of

[117:15] Venski, and Andrew Carum. Thank you all

[117:18] for dropping by tonight.

[117:19] >> Thank you.

[117:19] >> Homeland security is one of tonight's

[117:21] top stories as well. We're going to tell

[117:23] you which airport has a new scanner that

[117:25] can see through your clothes. Yes,

[117:28] that's right. another whether or not you

[117:30] want that to happen. The government is

[117:33] also ranking everyone who travels across

[117:35] our borders by land, sea, or air. And

[117:38] the final score points to whether or not

[117:40] you might be a terrorist. We're going to

[117:43] tell you who knows your score. And

[117:45] here's a hint. It [music] won't be you.

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[120:38] >> One of our top stories in Homeland

[120:39] Security has some people absolutely

[120:42] outraged. If you've come into the US or

[120:44] gone out, the government's been watching

[120:46] you and raiding you and will keep your

[120:49] file for decades. Coming up, does

[120:51] someone think you're a terrorist? Now,

[120:54] on to the first of our top stories in

[120:56] Homeland Security tonight. I want you to

[120:57] see a new scanner that is now being

[120:59] installed at airports. Some people call

[121:01] it a naked scanner because it actually

[121:04] allows security workers to look

[121:07] underneath your clothes. That's right,

[121:09] right beneath them. Here's Brian Todd

[121:14] >> at Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport. The

[121:16] newest weapon in the War on Terror that

[121:18] can see through clothes carrying

[121:20] explosives. Already used on more than a

[121:23] million passengers abroad. These special

[121:25] X-rays can catch all kinds of

[121:27] contraband.

[121:28] >> Regular weapons, guns, knives, box

[121:30] cutters, and the like, but also un

[121:32] unusual types of weapons, explosives,

[121:34] liquid explosives, gels.

[121:36] >> The images will look like this. outlines

[121:38] of the body, not in detail, but weapons

[121:41] and other items do show up. This

[121:43] technology has been very controversial

[121:45] because until recently, it was much more

[121:48] invasive. In August, I went through a

[121:50] so-called back scatter machine. I was

[121:52] advised that if I didn't want my private

[121:54] areas shown, I should put a metal plate

[121:56] in my pants. I step just in front of the

[121:59] machine, turn around. In just a few

[122:02] seconds, the monitor displays my humble

[122:04] contours. Now, in this test, I'm playing

[122:07] the role of a would-be terrorist. I try

[122:09] to hide a plastic lipstick container in

[122:11] my vest pocket. Busted. I sneak a sports

[122:14] drink bottle. Busted again. How about

[122:17] wires in a sealed sandwich bag hidden in

[122:19] my sock? On the monitor, they show up on

[122:22] my ankle. But the machines have

[122:24] limitations. When I pour water into a

[122:26] sealed sandwich bag, place it inside my

[122:28] belt line, and in a sock, you can barely

[122:31] see it. But one company behind this

[122:33] technology says train screeners would

[122:35] detect it. And the Transportation

[122:36] Security Administration says they have

[122:38] other methods to detect liquids. When

[122:41] this came out, privacy advocates called

[122:43] it a virtual strip search, and they're

[122:45] not much more satisfied with the newer

[122:47] technology.

[122:48] >> Essentially, they're putting a digital

[122:49] fig leaf on the image. This protects the

[122:52] image from what the operator will see,

[122:55] but the machine itself can still record

[122:57] all the detail and store that

[122:59] information for use at a later point.

[123:01] >> A TSA official tells CNN there won't be

[123:04] any hard drives to store the images and

[123:06] says no one will have access to pictures

[123:08] without the so-called fig leaf on them.

[123:10] From one passenger tested on the older

[123:12] machines,

[123:13] >> I've been through it over in Europe and

[123:15] I didn't mind.

[123:18] Now, in Phoenix, an official with the

[123:20] TSA tells us the machine will only be

[123:22] used if more than a metal detector is

[123:24] required, so-called secondary screening,

[123:26] and then passengers will get a choice

[123:28] between those machines and physical

[123:30] patowns. Paula,

[123:31] >> so Brian, that one guy was pretty

[123:32] nonchalant about having done it in

[123:34] Europe. How about the rest of the

[123:35] passengers you spoke with?

[123:37] >> Well, the the passengers in Europe who

[123:39] go through this go through it at

[123:40] London's Heathrow airport. And according

[123:42] to the manufacturer actually who makes

[123:44] this, they are given that choice between

[123:46] a physical pat down and these machines

[123:47] and he says most of them choose the

[123:50] machines. They may not be realizing what

[123:52] what's coming out on the other end as

[123:53] far as the image is concerned but he

[123:55] says the machines are very popular

[123:56] there.

[123:57] >> Brian Todd, thanks so much. Appreciate

[123:58] it. Also ahead in tonight's top story in

[124:00] homeland security in the name of

[124:02] fighting terrorism. The government is

[124:04] actually keeping score on every traveler

[124:06] who crosses our borders. in a minute.

[124:08] What goes into determining your score?

[124:11] And then a little bit later on, another

[124:12] top story we're following about a man

[124:14] who took border security and a gun into

[124:17] his own hands.

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[127:04] >> Funny man Louis Black rants and raves at

[127:06] all the latest news. Larry Kane tonight

[127:08] 9 Eastern.

[127:11] >> Another top story in Homeland Security

[127:13] for you tonight. A secret program just

[127:15] now being revealed that will add even

[127:17] more fuel to the debate over protecting

[127:19] your privacy versus protecting your

[127:22] safety. For the last four years, the

[127:24] government has been assigning scores to

[127:26] travelers to rank them [music] as

[127:28] potential terrorists. And you have no

[127:29] control over whether you're labeled a

[127:32] bad risk. Justice correspondent Kelly

[127:34] Arena has the [music] explosive details.

[127:38] Whenever you leave or enter the United

[127:40] States by air, land, or sea, you are

[127:43] being rated by the government to see how

[127:45] likely it is that you're a terrorist or

[127:47] a criminal. Computers are assessing

[127:49] everything from how you paid for your

[127:51] tickets to what type of meal you

[127:53] ordered, whether you're flying one way,

[127:55] even where you sit on the plane.

[127:58] >> If somebody is, for example, sitting in

[127:59] the window seat, it's less likely that

[128:01] that person intends to hijack a plane

[128:02] because it's harder for that person to

[128:04] get out to do so. This type of

[128:06] information has been gathered for years,

[128:08] but it's now being used differently as

[128:10] part of a monitoring program that also

[128:12] tracks information on vehicles crossing

[128:14] the borders, also on cargo coming in or

[128:16] going out of the country. What's more,

[128:19] the information can be kept for up to 40

[128:22] years. The program known as the

[128:24] automated targeting system or ATS was

[128:27] detailed last month in the fine print of

[128:29] the obscure Federal Register. The

[128:31] Department of Homeland Security says the

[128:33] program is critical for national

[128:35] security, that having the most detailed

[128:38] information possible can help prevent

[128:41] terrorist attacks.

[128:42] >> Job one for me is keep bad people out of

[128:45] the United States. That is what the

[128:47] people of this country expect.

[128:49] >> But privacy advocates are absolutely

[128:51] incensed, angry because you're not

[128:53] allowed to ever see the government's

[128:55] assessment of you. DHS officials say for

[128:58] security reasons the information can

[129:00] never fully be disclosed.

[129:02] >> People should have the right to find out

[129:04] how it's being used and if they aren't

[129:05] given those rights then I think this

[129:08] program needs to be shut down.

[129:09] >> Security experts also say a big concern

[129:12] is that the program will inevitably

[129:13] mislabel innocent citizens as possible

[129:16] terrorists or criminals and the

[129:18] information can be shared with state and

[129:20] local governments if you apply for a job

[129:22] for example or need a security

[129:24] clearance. shouldn't be used for any

[129:26] other decision that the federal

[129:27] government might make other than whether

[129:29] a person can enter the United States.

[129:32] >> And if there's been a mistake made, good

[129:34] luck trying to correct it. Even if

[129:36] someone somehow found out that he or she

[129:38] was on this list, there's no means of

[129:40] getting off the list.

[129:42] >> The Department of Homeland Security says

[129:44] that there is a way to correct data in

[129:46] its systems, but you would have to file

[129:47] a Freedom of Information Act request

[129:49] just to find out what's there. And even

[129:51] then, you would not get all of the

[129:53] information because officials say they

[129:55] don't want to tip off terrorists to what

[129:57] they're looking for. Now, Dashet says

[129:59] that the new program will be effective

[130:01] Monday. Paula, until then, the public

[130:03] can comment on this program. One way to

[130:06] do that is by email. The address is

[130:08] www.regulations.gov.

[130:12] We put it on the lower third there so

[130:13] people can write it down. Kelly Arena,

[130:15] thanks so much.

[130:16] >> You're welcome. We are going to put the

[130:17] privacy versus security question to a

[130:19] top story panel right now. Joining me

[130:21] now, Dr. Harvey Kushner, a terrorism

[130:24] expert and author of the holy war on the

[130:26] home front and David Soil, senior

[130:28] counsel of the electronic frontier

[130:30] foundation, an organization that builds

[130:32] itself as devoted to defending your

[130:35] digital rights. Welcome to the two of

[130:37] you. So, Dr. Kushner, let me get this

[130:39] straight. So the government will be able

[130:40] to track what I eat, where I sit, how I

[130:44] pay for my airline tickets for the next

[130:46] 40 years. Should the government really

[130:50] go that far?

[130:51] >> Well, Paul, I think we the

[130:53] >> particularly since I can't access this

[130:54] information myself,

[130:54] >> Paula, we're talking about international

[130:56] flights, people entering this country

[130:57] and leaving this country, not just on

[130:59] the air, but by sea and by automobile

[131:02] and by train. And you're talking about

[131:05] almost a half a billion people a year.

[131:07] Actually 400 million last year. This is

[131:09] a a data mining of superb data mining

[131:12] system. And we collect information for

[131:15] criminals and for potential terrorists.

[131:17] And Paul, I want you to know we've

[131:19] stopped hundreds of criminals from

[131:21] coming into this country in the last

[131:23] year. This has been operational quite

[131:25] some time. I think it's necessary. So we

[131:27] h you have a right when you aboard a

[131:30] plane to reach your destination alive.

[131:32] And that's pretty much David the defense

[131:34] that Secretary Chernoff uses when he

[131:36] talks about this program. He wants to

[131:38] keep the bad guys, he says, out of this

[131:39] country. He says it's absolutely

[131:41] critical. [clears throat]

[131:42] >> So if this can help, as Dr. Kushner just

[131:45] pointed out, what's the harm?

[131:47] >> Well, Paul, I think it's really

[131:49] overkill. I mean, to suggest that tens

[131:52] of millions of innocent law- abiding

[131:55] American citizens need to have their

[131:58] data rifled through, analyzed by

[132:01] computers, and being be assigned a

[132:03] suspicion score that will live with them

[132:05] for 40 years to suggest that that's

[132:07] necessary to fight terrorism, uh, I I

[132:11] think is just incredibly overblown. And

[132:14] uh it's it's something that I think most

[132:15] Americans when they become aware of it

[132:17] as they finally are now uh are not going

[132:20] to support or and in fact are going to

[132:23] be very concerned.

[132:24] >> So you're not willing to see tonight

[132:26] that this program makes us at all safer

[132:30] >> not based on the evidence that is before

[132:32] us which is virtually nothing. The

[132:34] government has made uh almost no

[132:36] information about this program

[132:38] available. uh if in fact it has been

[132:40] going on for the last four years. It has

[132:42] been uh conducted illegally because the

[132:46] government has not uh complied with the

[132:48] privacy act by providing public notice

[132:51] of the fact that this uh system is in

[132:53] place and how it works and what rights

[132:56] citizens have. Okay. Uh and that is a

[132:58] requirement that has been part of our

[132:59] law for over 30 years.

[133:01] >> Now Harvey, I only have time for one

[133:03] last question here. Shouldn't people at

[133:05] least have access to this information,

[133:08] what the government has amassed on you

[133:10] and be able to challenge the risk

[133:12] assessment if you don't agree with it.

[133:13] >> Well, well, first of all, Paul, he's

[133:14] talking about American citizens out of

[133:16] the 400 million people a year, not all

[133:18] of them American citizens. The far

[133:20] majority are foreigners, foreign

[133:22] nationals. And look, if if it's abused

[133:25] and if people are hurt by this,

[133:27] eventually it will come out and then

[133:29] there's access.

[133:30] >> How will we know? Because we're not

[133:31] going to have access to that

[133:32] information. We won't know what our risk

[133:33] assessment is. Paula, we live in a

[133:36] dangerous world. We have to do take

[133:37] precautions. This is necessary. If I

[133:40] thought in any way that the government

[133:41] was doing this purposely to hurt people,

[133:43] I would be against it just as David is.

[133:45] But this is being done to protect the

[133:47] general public flying and protect the

[133:48] United States, America, and our

[133:50] security.

[133:50] >> Gentlemen, got to leave it there. David

[133:51] Soil, Dr. Harvey Kushner, thank you for

[133:54] your both of your points of views. Next,

[133:56] we're going to head south for tonight's

[133:58] top story along the border, where one

[133:59] man has been fighting his own battle to

[134:02] stop illegal immigration until he pulled

[134:04] a gun on some US citizens. See what

[134:08] happened to him. And then a little bit

[134:10] later on, a top story in religion and

[134:12] politics. What Senator Barack Obama had

[134:14] to say about AIDS at a conference of

[134:16] evangelicals today. We're also going to

[134:19] meet a man you probably won't recognize,

[134:22] but he's definitely someone you should

[134:23] know. Before he started his new job

[134:25] today, people were pushing and shoving

[134:27] and getting into fights about it. We'll

[134:29] explain when we come back. Please stay

[134:30] tuned.

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[136:50] >> Right now, tonight's top story in the

[136:52] fight over illegal immigration.

[136:54] Immigration reform went nowhere in

[136:56] Washington this year, but along the US

[136:57] border with Mexico. The anger over the

[137:00] problem is constantly on the verge of

[137:03] breaking. Just [music] take a look at

[137:04] what happened when an Arizona rancher

[137:06] trying to protect his own property ran

[137:09] into a Latino family on a hunting trip.

[137:12] Ed Lavendor has [music] his story.

[137:15] >> It's called cuz it has a big D on it.

[137:17] >> Ron Morales says he just wanted to take

[137:20] his girls mu deer hunting in the Arizona

[137:22] scrub brush just as his father had taken

[137:25] him.

[137:26] >> We just headed out and we were having a

[137:28] really good time with my family and my

[137:31] friends. But the Morales family outing

[137:33] ran headlong into the national

[137:35] immigration debate when they were

[137:36] confronted by a local rancher doing some

[137:39] hunting of his own.

[137:40] >> Man, I mean, he was just cussing up a

[137:42] storm and screaming at the top of his

[137:44] lungs that my dad is just like uh his

[137:46] effing uh Mexican Mexican ignorant

[137:49] brothers from Mexi from Mexico. You're

[137:51] all the same, he said.

[137:52] >> We're not getting out of here alive.

[137:54] We're just going to die right there.

[137:56] >> This is the Barnett ranch all throughout

[137:58] here. Roger Barnett was on a

[138:00] self-appointed patrol, packing an

[138:02] assault rifle and a conviction that US

[138:04] citizens need to take the problem of

[138:06] illegal immigration into their own

[138:08] hands. As soon as I asked him what his

[138:10] name was, that's when he went back to

[138:11] his truck and reached underneath his his

[138:14] seat and pulled out the that AR-15. It

[138:17] took him three tries to chamber that

[138:19] bullet. And once he chambered that

[138:21] bullet, he says, "My name my name is

[138:22] Effing Roger Barnett, you know, and if

[138:24] you don't get out of here, I'm going to

[138:25] shoot you. I'm going to kill you."

[138:26] Barnett boasts of having captured 14,000

[138:29] illegal immigrants in 7 years on the

[138:31] 22,000 acres of US border property he

[138:34] leases from Arizona.

[138:36] >> Nobody has ever been hurt or abused, but

[138:38] thousands have been turned over to the

[138:40] Border Patrol to be deported.

[138:42] >> He's just scary. He was just really mad.

[138:46] >> Did he have a gun? Did you see a gun?

[138:48] >> Yes, he had a um a gun.

[138:51] >> But the family held at gunpoint was born

[138:53] and raised in the United States. And

[138:55] when local police wouldn't act, they

[138:57] joined with border activists filing a

[138:59] civil lawsuit, hoping to stop Barnett's

[139:02] patrols and make an example of him.

[139:04] >> Even if you find someone in your land in

[139:07] these large holdings that are in

[139:10] southern Arizona who has trespass, you

[139:13] do not have a right to terrorize them.

[139:16] >> A jury of mostly white Arizonans did

[139:19] just that, ordering Barnett to pay the

[139:21] Morales family almost $99,000 in

[139:23] damages. even as he denied making racial

[139:26] slurs and accused the family of

[139:28] trespassing.

[139:29] >> Roger Barnett was their poster child,

[139:31] their call to action. We hope that it

[139:33] has a chilling effect on vigilante

[139:36] activities, not only here in Arizona,

[139:37] but across the country.

[139:39] >> We made repeated attempts to speak with

[139:40] Roger Barnett, but he refused all of our

[139:42] requests for an interview. He did say,

[139:44] however, that this verdict will not

[139:46] change what he does, that he will

[139:48] continue to apprehend people who cross

[139:50] his ranch land near the Mexican border.

[139:52] Roger Barnett

[139:55] is a great American.

[139:56] >> His ideological followers like Glenn

[139:59] Spencer say they support his vision and

[140:02] won't be deterred by the judgment

[140:03] against him.

[140:04] >> He hasn't heard of of fleeing

[140:07] and I, you know, as far as I know, he is

[140:10] not a he is not a racist. Spencer has

[140:14] started a civilian version of the border

[140:16] patrol out of his Arizona home with

[140:18] employees, high-tech radar and radios

[140:22] and a search plane. He flies so close to

[140:25] the US border that this federal patrol

[140:27] plane rode his wing to force him back.

[140:29] >> He was out 50 yard. I could have thrown

[140:31] a rock and knocked out his windshield.

[140:33] >> And on the ground, he chases anyone who

[140:35] looks Mexican to him and warns that

[140:38] folks like the morales of Mexican

[140:39] descent should know to be careful. These

[140:42] people are aware of the severe

[140:44] controversy on the border, right? And

[140:47] they're walking into the hot bed of

[140:49] controversy with a weapon, and they know

[140:51] that they could be mistaken for somebody

[140:54] that's come across the border illegally.

[140:56] >> Morales's daughters say they've been

[140:58] scared off. They'll never hunt in those

[141:00] foothills again.

[141:02] >> I don't like it anymore. I'm really

[141:04] scared just to go out there. I don't

[141:06] like hunting anymore.

[141:08] >> Ed Lavendera, CNN, near Douglas,

[141:10] Arizona.

[141:11] And the one thing we know for sure

[141:12] tonight, the US is going to have to work

[141:14] with Mexico's new president to solve the

[141:16] illegal immigration problem. But Felipe

[141:18] Calderon has his hands full at home.

[141:21] Take a look at these pictures as he took

[141:24] the oath of office earlier today in a

[141:26] chaotic ceremony that included fist

[141:29] fights in Mexico's Congress. It was such

[141:32] a mess that Calderon had to slip in

[141:34] through a back door. You might remember

[141:37] the Calderon was elected by a razor thin

[141:39] margin and his opponents have protested

[141:41] the results for weeks now. Well, tonight

[141:44] Calderon is the focus of this week's

[141:46] people you should know. Here's Harris

[141:48] Whitak.

[141:49] [clears throat and snorts]

[141:51] The new president of Mexico begins his

[141:53] six-year term after the same kind of

[141:55] dispute that delayed the election of

[141:57] George W. Bush in 2000.

[142:00] Filipe Calderon won by less than one

[142:02] percentage point. His opponent claimed

[142:04] he had rigged the election and demanded

[142:06] a recount. Mexico's electoral court

[142:08] found no signs of fraud. Now Calderon

[142:11] hopes to leave the controversy behind.

[142:15] >> We must be united in this nation because

[142:17] only we can beat our true enemies.

[142:19] Poverty, delinquency, and crime.

[142:21] Divided, we will lose the strength.

[142:24] >> Calderon is a member of the Conservative

[142:26] National Action Party who was raised

[142:28] Catholic and like President Bush opposes

[142:30] abortion and gay marriage. But the two

[142:33] leaders differ on the construction of a

[142:35] border fence that Calderon has compared

[142:37] to the Berlin wall. While immigration is

[142:39] a hot issue, Calderon hopes it will not

[142:42] overshadow other matters.

[142:46] I'm aware of the complexity of the

[142:48] relationship with the United States of

[142:50] the need to defend the rights of

[142:51] migrants and of the need to demand more

[142:53] joint responsibility from the Americans

[142:55] in terms of drug trafficking.

[142:57] >> Welcome the president-elect. Presidents

[142:59] Bush and Calderon have met since the

[143:01] election and Mr. Bush says he'll make US

[143:04] Mexico relations a priority for the

[143:06] remainder of his term. Harris Whitbeck,

[143:08] CNN in Mexico City.

[143:10] >> And still to come tonight, a possible

[143:12] Democratic presidential candidate turned

[143:14] up in one of the last places you might

[143:16] expect today. That makes it a top story

[143:18] in politics tonight. Next, what Senator

[143:20] Barack Obama told a group of

[143:21] evangelicals while he was talking about

[143:24] AIDS. That's next.

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[146:41] Right now, we bring you a top story that

[146:43] we've been following all day. World's

[146:44] AIDS Day and the fight to stop that

[146:47] deadly disease across the world. There

[146:49] were tributes to the 25 million people

[146:52] who died since the first case was

[146:54] reported back in 1981 and appeals to

[146:57] help the 40 million people now living

[147:00] with the HIV virus. It was in the spirit

[147:03] that Rick Warren, evangelical pastor of

[147:05] one of the largest churches in the

[147:07] country, invited Senator Barack Obama to

[147:09] speak at an aid [music] summit. And

[147:11] despite all the controversy over that

[147:13] invitation, the pastor and the senator

[147:15] did come together today. And Thelma

[147:17] Gutierrez was there

[147:20] [applause]

[147:21] >> with an embrace from evangelical pastor

[147:24] Rick Warren and an enthusiastic applause

[147:27] echoing from Saddleback Church.

[147:29] >> Thank you so much. Thank you.

[147:30] >> Senator Barack Obama took to the pulpit

[147:32] at one of the country's largest

[147:34] evangelical churches and face down

[147:36] thousands of political opponents to

[147:38] deliver a message about HIV AIDS.

[147:40] >> That if condoms and potentially things

[147:43] like microbicides can prevent millions

[147:45] of deaths, then they should be made more

[147:48] widely available. That's my belief.

[147:51] >> The occasion, the global summit for AIDS

[147:53] in the church for World AIDS Day, where

[147:55] the Democratic senator from Illinois

[147:57] stood before 2,000 people. many of them

[147:59] evangelical church leaders from across

[148:01] the country adamantly opposed to Obama's

[148:04] political positions on abortion and

[148:06] embryionic stem cell research. The event

[148:09] here which was made to call attention to

[148:11] the fight against AIDS was nearly

[148:13] overshadowed by debate. What I do have a

[148:15] problem with is the sacred spot of the

[148:18] platform of a church to be taken over by

[148:21] someone who is not only hostile in his

[148:24] view towards God but is hostile in

[148:26] everything that God stands for.

[148:29] >> Rick Warren took heat from some

[148:30] conservative Christians for inviting

[148:32] Obama to speak at the summit. 18 angry

[148:34] ministers sent Warren a letter urging

[148:36] him to resend the invitation. But Warren

[148:39] wouldn't budge, saying he invited Obama

[148:41] and the Republican Senator Sam Brownback

[148:43] of Kansas to talk about AIDS in the

[148:46] spirit of nonpartisanship.

[148:48] >> We must do what we can to prevent people

[148:50] from catching HIV AIDS in the first

[148:53] place.

[148:54] >> Rick Warren and both senators took AIDS

[148:56] tests.

[148:57] >> I said, you've seen the face of this

[148:59] compassionate conservatism and the face

[149:01] of compassionate liberalism. And what we

[149:03] have in common is compassion. But it's

[149:06] this shot of Obama at the pulpit holding

[149:09] hands with notable evangelical leader

[149:11] Rick Warren that worries some Christian

[149:14] conservatives.

[149:15] >> A photo is worth a thousand words and

[149:17] that's really all he needs uh for his uh

[149:20] presidential campaign.

[149:21] >> USC political analyst Kareem Kraton

[149:24] agrees.

[149:24] >> It certainly plays into the very

[149:27] argument that got him on the public

[149:28] radar to begin with that there's no red

[149:30] or blue America that the United States

[149:32] of America.

[149:33] >> Love your neighbors yourself. If Obama

[149:35] is able to reach across the political

[149:37] divide and attract an evangelical

[149:39] following, analysts say he will have

[149:42] accomplished what few Democrats have so

[149:44] far been able to do. The Mutier, CNN,

[149:48] Lake Forest, California. And we're going

[149:50] to move on now to our biz break. Stocks

[149:52] finished down today. The Dow dropped 28

[149:55] points. NASDAQ [music]

[149:56] finishing with a loss of 18.5 points.

[149:58] The S&P lost four points as you can see

[150:01] almost on our screen here. Home Depot

[150:04] may be a takeover target. The New York

[150:06] Post is reporting that two powerful

[150:08] private equity firms may pay as much as

[150:10] $100 billion dollar for the home

[150:13] retailer. And a mixed bag of news for US

[150:15] automakers. Industry leader GM posted a

[150:18] 6% sales gain in November, helped by a

[150:21] surge in light truck sales. But Ford

[150:23] sales plunged nearly 10% last month.

[150:26] Chrysler's car sales were up 3%. Beyond

[150:30] the politics of AIDS, there are the

[150:32] facts [music] about the deadly disease

[150:33] itself. Doctors are learning more all

[150:36] the time. Coming up in tonight's top

[150:38] story in health, will there ever be a

[150:40] cure?

[150:44] Tonight on 360, a country at the

[150:46] crossroads, the Pope under fire.

[150:47] Reaction to Pope Benedict's visit to

[150:49] Turkey and his encounter with Islam. Is

[150:52] it healing any wounds or making things

[150:54] worse? A [music] 360 special when two

[150:56] faiths collide. Tonight, 10 p.m.

[150:58] Eastern.

[151:00] >> CNN Business Break brought to you by

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[153:47] >> The weather is the news. Trust CNN. It's

[153:51] essential.

[153:54] >> We continue now with our top story,

[153:56] World AIDS Day. What is it like to live

[153:58] with the HIV virus that causes AIDS? And

[154:01] how close are we actually to finding a

[154:03] cure? Joining me now to answer some of

[154:05] those questions, Rean Hoffman. She's one

[154:07] of the tens of millions of people who

[154:09] are infected with HIV. She told her

[154:12] story in Pause magazine when she became

[154:14] its editor in chief. And in Atlanta,

[154:17] senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay

[154:19] Gupta. Glad to have both of you with us

[154:21] tonight. Rean, we should explain that

[154:23] you contracted the HIV virus some 10

[154:26] years ago through a boyfriend. He died.

[154:28] >> Yes.

[154:29] >> Here you are. You've survived a lot

[154:31] longer than some people might have

[154:33] expected to you. You're leading a

[154:35] healthy life.

[154:36] >> I am.

[154:37] >> But what do you want people to

[154:38] understand about your daily struggle and

[154:40] what the last decade has been like for

[154:42] you?

[154:42] >> Well, the reason I came forward this

[154:44] year to tell my story about HIV is that

[154:46] people don't believe that this disease

[154:48] can happen to them. and we're seeing

[154:49] infections among groups of people who

[154:51] perceive themselves not to be at risk,

[154:53] young people and women, people of color,

[154:56] and even people over the age of 50. Um,

[154:58] I still encounter incredility when I

[155:00] tell people that I am HIV positive. They

[155:02] say, "Oh, but you look well." Um, I

[155:04] wanted to come forward to let people

[155:05] know that if you've ever had unprotected

[155:07] sex with a condom without or if you've

[155:08] ever had unprotected sex, you are at

[155:10] risk for contracting HIV. And I also

[155:12] want people to understand that though

[155:14] this is a manageable disease that um can

[155:16] be treated and you know you can you can

[155:20] live with it, it's still not something

[155:21] that you can live with easily and we

[155:23] want to make people aware of this so

[155:25] that they take precaution and um you

[155:27] know use the right measurements.

[155:29] >> Give us an example of what is taken to

[155:31] keep you alive. What kind of medication

[155:33] are we talking about that you've been

[155:35] subjected to?

[155:36] >> I take pills every day. I've taken more

[155:38] than 48,000 since 1996.

[155:40] >> 48,000. Mhm. It's and you know

[155:42] compliance is really critical to the

[155:44] effectiveness of the medication and so

[155:46] try doing anything every day you know

[155:48] let alone every day for 10 years. It's

[155:50] it's a challenge and one of your

[155:52] challenges in deciding whether to come

[155:54] out with this publicly or not is what

[155:56] impact it was going to have on you

[155:58] because people still jump to conclusions

[156:02] about who you are, what you are and you

[156:04] were very concerned about being put into

[156:05] a box.

[156:06] >> Absolutely. There are still

[156:07] misperceptions. We've come a long way in

[156:09] terms of people understanding that you

[156:10] cannot contract HIV through casual

[156:12] contact. But people still wonder, oh,

[156:15] you know, was she a drug addict? Did she

[156:18] do something, you know, extreme? And and

[156:20] all I did is something that many many

[156:22] people do, which is have unprotected sex

[156:24] with someone that I knew and cared

[156:26] about. And what is so powerful about

[156:28] Rean's story, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is that

[156:30] we all used to think at the beginning

[156:32] that this was just a disease of gay men.

[156:36] put into perspective

[156:38] who all has to confront this.

[156:40] >> Well, you know, I think

[156:42] >> yeah, I mean, there are some alarming

[156:44] statistics. Rean makes a really good

[156:45] point. In some ways, we've become the

[156:47] victims of our own success and seen a

[156:49] resurgence of high-risisk behavior in

[156:51] people because because the drugs have

[156:53] worked so well. But African-Americans in

[156:56] this country, Paula, are are the most

[156:58] vulnerable. While they rate make up

[156:59] about 12 to 13% of the population, they

[157:02] make up 50% of overall new HIV

[157:05] infections. Also, African-American women

[157:08] are the fastest growing demographic.

[157:10] Also, it's interesting. Uh, you know, it

[157:12] used to be considered an urban

[157:13] phenomenon and now, in fact, in the

[157:15] south, you're starting to see some of

[157:16] the fastest growing areas as well. It's

[157:18] moving from the urban areas to the rural

[157:20] areas as well. So, it's changing uh for

[157:22] sure. Paula,

[157:23] >> how do people treat you? Because the the

[157:25] stigma of AIDS is alive and well, isn't

[157:27] it, Rean?

[157:28] >> It is. But when people get the right

[157:30] information and when people can put um

[157:34] can digest what this disease is, they

[157:36] can get their heads around it. And I

[157:37] think that they can be comfortable with

[157:39] it. You know, it's an invisible disease.

[157:40] It's a virus. It's hard to imagine. And

[157:43] because the treatment has done so well,

[157:45] people don't show visible signs often of

[157:48] having HIV. So people know people who

[157:50] have HIV living all around them, but

[157:51] they don't know it. So the reaction um

[157:54] has been great in my life and I have to

[157:56] say that I'm really impressed with

[157:58] people's ability to educate themselves

[158:00] and be comfortable with

[158:01] >> it limited you when it comes to your

[158:04] profession. Has it limited you socially?

[158:06] I mean certainly it has to be an issue

[158:09] every time someone is introduced into

[158:12] your life as a potential boyfriend. Yes,

[158:14] I have a new boyfriend and one of my

[158:16] biggest fears was telling his mother,

[158:18] you know, but because um you know, she's

[158:21] an educated person who was aware of the

[158:23] facts of HIV, she's been very receptive

[158:26] and very comfortable. I think there's

[158:28] still this idea that um you know, people

[158:32] can get used to this idea and get used

[158:34] to the idea of HIV and you know, it just

[158:36] takes time and knowing somebody with the

[158:37] disease. I think what's important is for

[158:39] people with HIV to have their stories

[158:42] told so that it's not this, you know,

[158:44] remote thing

[158:45] >> and there is some very important

[158:46] information when they tell those

[158:48] stories. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, in closing

[158:49] tonight, what do you think is critical

[158:51] for all of us to know about AIDS and how

[158:54] it's spread?

[158:55] >> Well, I think one of the most important

[158:56] things, one of the things that startles

[158:57] me the most is that a significant

[158:59] percentage of people who are watching

[159:01] your show right now might be HIV

[159:02] positive and not know it. Uh there's a

[159:05] large percentage of people in this

[159:06] country around the world as well who

[159:08] simply never get tested and they simply

[159:09] never know and they unwittingly pass

[159:11] that virus on to somebody else. Uh the

[159:14] CDC has come out with recommendations

[159:16] saying every time you get a physical

[159:17] exam, you should get tested. Uh you

[159:19] should get tested even if you think

[159:20] there's no way you might have it, you

[159:22] still might. And it's important for that

[159:24] to happen in order to bring these

[159:25] numbers down. Paula

[159:26] >> Rean, very quickly in closing, you

[159:28] hopeful that there ultimately will be a

[159:29] vaccine that uh will prevent people from

[159:32] suffering the way you have? Of course.

[159:34] And in the meantime, I hope that we can

[159:35] get the word out and, you know, increase

[159:37] prevention efforts among people and make

[159:39] them aware that it can happen to them

[159:40] and that they should get tested. Well,

[159:42] >> we wish you continued good luck.

[159:43] >> Thank you very much.

[159:44] >> Took a lot of guts to go public and and

[159:46] talk as openly as you had about AIDS.

[159:48] Dr. Sanjay Gupta, you always have kept

[159:50] us informed of this. Thank you for

[159:51] joining us tonight. We are minutes away

[159:53] from the top of the hour. Larry King

[159:55] live. Larry's guest tonight is Lewis

[159:57] Black of the Daily Show. We'll be right

[160:00] back.

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[162:39] >> Tonight on 360, a country at the

[162:40] crossroads, the Pope under fire.

[162:42] Reaction to Pope Benedict's visit to

[162:44] Turkey and his encounter with Islam. Is

[162:46] it healing any wounds or making things

[162:49] worse? A 360 special when two faiths

[162:51] collide tonight, 10 p.m. Eastern.

[162:55] >> And that wraps it up for all of us here

[162:57] tonight. We really appreciate you're

[162:58] stopping by. We'll be back same time,

[163:00] same place Monday night. We hope you'll

[163:02] join us then. [music] Larry King Live

[163:04] starts in just a couple of seconds. Have

[163:07] a great weekend and uh once again,

[163:09] please join us on [music] Monday

[163:16] [music]

[163:18] >> tonight. He may be the angriest man in

[163:20] America.

[163:21] >> DID YOU NOT LISTEN TO HIM TALK?

[163:23] >> But when this guy unloads,

[163:25] >> what the is that about? What the is that

[163:28] about?

[163:29] >> Everybody laughs.

[163:33] Lewis Black, an equal opportunity

[163:36] offender who's funny as hell.

[163:39] >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

[163:40] THERE GOING TO BE GIANT TICKS

[163:41] EVERYWHERE. WE DON'T KNOW. WHERE DID HE

[163:42] GO?