Meet the Press (NBC) - 2009-05-10 - 2 of 2

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Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] 's biggest and most daunting rescue

[0:02] mission. Steve Call, take a moment to

[0:05] explain why it's so important for

[0:07] Americans to take the time to understand

[0:10] this threat in all of its complexity,

[0:13] both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[0:15] >> I think Doyle captured it. Two primary

[0:16] reasons. Pakistan and particularly the

[0:18] border area along the Afghan border is

[0:21] the locust of international terrorist

[0:22] groups that are actively plotting

[0:24] against the United States, Britain,

[0:26] India, governments of Afghanistan and

[0:28] Pakistan. Secondly, Pakistan is a

[0:30] country with the world's fastest growing

[0:32] nuclear weapons arsenal. If it became a

[0:35] jihadi state ruled by the Taliban, not

[0:37] only the United States, but the entire

[0:39] world would be threatened in a profound

[0:40] and and important way. So, I don't think

[0:43] this is a bet in the sense that I don't

[0:44] think the Obama administration has a

[0:46] choice.

[0:47] >> Andrea,

[0:48] >> agreed. I think it's the nuclear

[0:49] weapons. It's the locust of terror, the

[0:52] border with Afghanistan. Afghanistan can

[0:54] never be stable unless Pakistan is

[0:55] secured. the continuing rivalry with

[0:58] India and the fact that Pakistan focuses

[1:00] on India and we keep telling them the

[1:03] United States government to focus on the

[1:05] insurgents on the Taliban on the

[1:07] al-Qaeda threat but they still are so

[1:10] reluctant to move their forces away from

[1:11] India. So you have a regional problem

[1:13] and that's why this administration at

[1:15] least is taking it on as a regional

[1:17] problem that requires that kind of

[1:19] solution. That's why you have Richard

[1:20] Hullbrook that this is their main focus.

[1:23] >> And it's important to understand that

[1:25] our history and their history since the

[1:27] middle 70s is that when America averts

[1:30] its eyes, when America takes its eye off

[1:33] of that region, really bad things

[1:35] happen.

[1:36] >> And you had both leaders telling you,

[1:38] well, you walked away. You, the United

[1:40] States, walked away. And it's true.

[1:42] They're, of course, they have

[1:43] responsibility for their own failures of

[1:45] leadership. I mean the most

[1:47] extraordinary thing about watching both

[1:48] of them, David, is how delusional they

[1:50] are about their own responsibility for

[1:53] their countries, how weak they are as

[1:54] leaders. I think you know the

[1:56] administration touts the successes of

[1:58] this week of bringing them together, of

[2:00] forcing them to meet, of having their

[2:01] intelligence chiefs meet with each

[2:03] other, of getting a dialogue moving uh

[2:06] on on every level at every cabinet

[2:08] department. That was the big success

[2:10] they're touting. But the fact is when

[2:12] you really drill down and talk to

[2:14] individual intelligence leaders here in

[2:16] the United States, they say they're not

[2:18] going to talk to each other. Not unless

[2:19] we, the United States go to every

[2:21] meeting and force them to engage because

[2:24] of this rivalry.

[2:24] >> Steve, what struck you from hearing both

[2:26] of these leaders after their meetings at

[2:28] the White House?

[2:28] >> Well, I think what Andrea says is

[2:30] important. There was a detachment in

[2:31] both men. They were both at times very

[2:34] effective analysts of the nature of the

[2:35] crisis under their feet, but neither of

[2:38] them was able to express an affirmative

[2:40] forward-looking political vision about

[2:41] how they were going to address this

[2:43] crisis. President Cararzi is running for

[2:44] re-election. Where in the interview did

[2:46] he talk about what he wanted to do in

[2:47] his next 5 years? How was he going to

[2:50] through his leadership address the

[2:52] problem that the Taliban poses to

[2:53] Afghans, not to the United States?

[2:55] President Zidari, I thought his cancer

[2:57] metaphor about the Taliban was excellent

[2:59] and and his analysis of the nature of

[3:01] the crisis was good. But his answer to

[3:03] your question, what's your strategy was

[3:05] we have a democracy. That's our

[3:06] strategy. Well, that's not going to be

[3:08] adequate. The Pakistan army is up on the

[3:10] front lines in Swat and Bunire fighting.

[3:12] Uh a very difficult war, refugees are

[3:15] pouring out. You would imagine the

[3:17] president of a democracy standing with

[3:19] those people who are uh now at the heart

[3:22] of the war, going to the hospitals,

[3:24] standing in the marketplaces saying,

[3:25] "This is our war. We're taking this

[3:27] place back from the Taliban." Instead,

[3:29] there was this air of uh sort of

[3:31] detachment throughout both interviews

[3:33] that was concerning.

[3:34] >> We we talk about Osama bin Laden, and

[3:35] this is sort of the tip of the iceberg.

[3:37] People I've talked to indicate that

[3:38] there hasn't been any actionable

[3:40] intelligence on the whereabouts of bin

[3:42] Laden since 2002, which they say is a

[3:46] prime example of a real shifting of

[3:48] resources to the war in Iraq. So my

[3:50] question, and Andrew, I'll start with

[3:51] you. You know, people follow

[3:52] Afghanistan, follow Pakistan, and they

[3:54] say, you know, it's the same enemy.

[3:56] Things have not really changed. It's

[3:58] just as dangerous since 9/11. How do we

[4:00] define victory?

[4:02] >> It's the same enemy since before 911.

[4:05] when you really think back to how long

[4:07] we've been dealing with this threat and

[4:09] victory would have to be defined by

[4:11] having a strong central government with

[4:13] democratic principles. But you see more

[4:16] and more often people in the

[4:17] administration saying we can't find it

[4:19] with these two leaders. So they're

[4:21] trying to figure out a way to layer uh

[4:23] Carzi after the election. They don't see

[4:25] an alternative but to have some sort of

[4:27] strong chief of staff under him to try

[4:30] to prop him up because he hasn't proved

[4:32] able to govern. Zedari is hopelessly

[4:36] ineffective. 80% of the popular support

[4:39] now goes to the Islamicist leader

[4:41] Shariff the former leader who is no

[4:43] friend of the United States but they are

[4:45] you know flirting with him as an

[4:47] alternative or the military. They don't

[4:49] really know what where to find a stable

[4:52] government and that's one of their first

[4:54] challenges to find a government with

[4:56] which this country can deal. So, Steve,

[4:59] what is it that the United States can

[5:00] achieve and what is the risk of not

[5:02] achieving it?

[5:03] >> Well, it has to achieve stability and it

[5:06] has to continue to fight al-Qaeda

[5:08] because al-Qaeda is continuing to fight

[5:09] the United States. The final dismantling

[5:12] of al-Qaeda's leadership uh is a

[5:14] realistic goal, but it may take some

[5:16] time and it certainly will take some

[5:17] effort. stability in South Asia will be

[5:20] more difficult to achieve, but

[5:21] containing the Taliban, rolling them

[5:22] back and creating conditions for

[5:24] Pakistan's democracy to flourish and for

[5:27] the Pakistani people in particular to

[5:29] start to feel as if their country is

[5:31] going in the right direction. Those I

[5:33] think have to be the goals. In the long

[5:34] run, stability in this region in

[5:36] Afghanistan and Pakistan can't be

[5:39] achieved unless Pakistan normalizes its

[5:41] relations with India, makes peace with

[5:43] India. In the long run, that's the goal.

[5:45] But in order to even create conditions

[5:47] for that to be pursued right now the

[5:49] Taliban have to be rolled back this

[5:51] momentum.

[5:52] >> The question is is do you are you

[5:55] actually capable of defeating the

[5:56] Taliban? I mean here in the western part

[5:58] of Pakistan where Osama bin Laden is

[6:00] believed to be hiding and Zahi is number

[6:03] two is believed to be hiding. You have

[6:05] the biggest manhunt in the history of

[6:07] the world, the biggest bounty on their

[6:08] heads in the history of the world and

[6:10] nobody has turned these guys in. It's

[6:13] true he's among friends and it's also

[6:15] true that the effort to find him has not

[6:17] been as robust over the last five or six

[6:19] years as it should have been. But look,

[6:21] this is not a war with a purely military

[6:23] solution. The defeat of the Taliban is

[6:26] really a political project in which they

[6:28] are contained, marginalized and

[6:29] ultimately reduced to a nuisance. That

[6:32] is what I believe uh the government of

[6:34] the United States and its international

[6:36] allies is trying to press upon President

[6:39] Cararzi, President Zardari that you need

[6:41] all of your government in this fight.

[6:43] This is not something just for the

[6:44] Pakistan army. This is for the civilian

[6:46] administration. This is for the

[6:48] political parties, everyone. Because in

[6:51] the end, the Taliban aren't going to be

[6:54] eradicated, wiped out like a poppycrop.

[6:56] they're just going to be converted into

[6:58] ordinary politics contained and reduced

[7:00] as a menace to the Pac to Pakistan and

[7:02] to the United States if if if success is

[7:05] to be achieved. And that's why you had

[7:06] what some people might have criticized

[7:08] as a dog and pony show at the state

[7:09] department with 32 people participating

[7:13] people from every department and Carzi

[7:16] Zidari Secretary of State Clinton

[7:18] Richard Hullbrook but to try to get them

[7:20] to engage because if there isn't some

[7:22] kind of domestic program for these two

[7:25] countries particularly Afghanistan where

[7:27] there has been no civilian component to

[7:29] the military operations they believe

[7:32] that it will fail. Um that said, I think

[7:34] it in the short term has to also boil

[7:37] down to the nuclear weapons. We heard

[7:38] the president saying at his news

[7:40] conference that he believes he has

[7:43] confidence they're secure. They don't

[7:44] really have confidence they're secure.

[7:45] They had more confidence under Musharf

[7:48] because they had a general in charge and

[7:50] they felt that the military really did

[7:53] have this relationship where we had a

[7:55] triple key program. We had the the codes

[7:58] as well as the Pakistanis. They now are

[8:00] very concerned about these weapons

[8:02] moving around the country.

[8:03] >> In 10 seconds, does the US public have

[8:05] the stomach for a longer, more

[8:06] protracted fight with US troops on the

[8:08] ground in Afghanistan?

[8:09] >> I think the US public wonders why we're

[8:11] there, but the truth is that we have to

[8:13] be there while Pakistan is at issue. Its

[8:16] stability and its government is at

[8:17] issue.

[8:17] >> All right, we'll leave it there. Andrea

[8:19] Mitchell, Steve Call, thank you both

[8:20] very much. And coming next,

[8:25] >> my next 100 days will be so successful I

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[8:28] days.

[8:31] And on the 73rd day, I will rest.

[8:35] >> Highlights from President Obama's night

[8:36] as comedian and chief to the press and

[8:39] official Washington. Next on Meet the

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[10:31] highlights from last night's White House

[10:33] correspondent center here in Washington,

[10:35] where the president met the press with

[10:37] some comedic jabs and oneliners.

[10:41] >> Good evening, everybody.

[10:45] I

[10:48] I would like to welcome you all to the

[10:51] 10-day anniversary of my first 100 days.

[10:58] I am Barack Obama.

[11:01] Most of you covered me.

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[11:30] Uh, you know, we had been rivals during

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[11:48] In the second 100 days, we will design,

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[12:01] In the next 100 days, I will learn to go

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[12:09] Just a taste from the White House

[12:10] correspondents dinner last night. Now,

[12:12] we'll be right back.

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