ABC News - Iraq War - 2003-03-20 - 9 p.m. (E)

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] Um there's no uh residue of fire there

[0:03] at the moment, but there was a huge

[0:05] explosion over in the lower right hand

[0:07] side of your picture, which we believe

[0:09] may well have been an element of the

[0:11] Ministry of the Interior. We shall see.

[0:14] This is ABC News continuing live

[0:15] coverage of the war with Iraq.

[0:26] Let's go quickly to the Pentagon where

[0:27] the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

[0:29] has showed up and is already giving us a

[0:31] briefing.

[0:34] >> Can you tell us what efforts the United

[0:35] States is making on Capital Hill? the

[0:38] Iraqi military.

[0:40] >> There there

[0:42] are there are communications in every

[0:44] conceivable mode and method um public

[0:48] and private to the Iraqi forces that

[0:52] they can act with honor

[0:55] and turn over their weapons and walk

[0:57] away from them and they will not be

[0:59] hurt. and uh anyone conversely anyone

[1:03] that engages in the use of weapons of

[1:05] mass destruction or supports that regime

[1:09] um will wish they had not.

[1:11] >> Good evening.

[1:13] >> Thank you, sir. Well, there is not much

[1:16] at the moment from the Secretary of

[1:17] Defense except to repeat what he had

[1:19] said um on several earlier occasions and

[1:22] that is the US is sending as clear a

[1:26] message as it can to Iraqi forces that

[1:28] they can act with honor uh or they can

[1:31] just to pick up what he said at his

[1:33] earlier news conference die fighting

[1:35] alongside a doomed regime or they can

[1:38] live again quoting him from his earlier

[1:40] briefing today in a new and free Iraq.

[1:43] And on the subject of weapons of mass

[1:45] destruction, I'm sure he told the

[1:47] Congress what they already saw on

[1:48] television earlier today. The Iraqi

[1:50] army, the Republican Guard, all the

[1:53] elements which are there to defend the

[1:55] regime have been told, "Don't follow

[1:57] orders. Uh don't light the oil fields on

[2:00] fire." And we believe there's a fire

[2:02] going in one of the southern fields. We

[2:03] do not know precisely how it began. Uh

[2:05] do not blow the dams and try to flood

[2:08] towns and villages in the path of the

[2:11] American invasion force. and do not

[2:13] under any circumstances use chemical and

[2:15] biological weapons. And he said, as he

[2:16] said before, anybody who does will be

[2:19] hunted down and tried as a war criminal.

[2:21] But the great emphasis on his news

[2:23] conference earlier today, and there he

[2:25] said a little bit of it again tonight,

[2:27] no need, he said, for a broader conflict

[2:29] if the Iraqis act to save themselves.

[2:33] Let's go to southern Iraq. Mike Surere,

[2:36] who uh worked for ABC News in California

[2:40] and in the Middle East, has been with

[2:41] the Marines for months and is out there

[2:42] with Fox Company, the Second Battalion,

[2:45] Fifth Regiment. Mike,

[2:52] >> I don't have program audio.

[2:54] >> Hey, Mike, it's Peter. Can you hear me?

[2:57] >> I can hear you.

[2:59] >> Tell us what's going on if you would.

[3:02] Uh, Peter, I know you were very

[3:03] concerned earlier about the reports of

[3:05] oil fires. We have just passed a major

[3:08] oil field in southern Iraq and it

[3:10] appears to be intact. We did see some

[3:13] explosions in and around the area. I'm

[3:15] not sure if another team uh has gone

[3:18] into the area, but they seem to be

[3:20] intact. There are not any wildfires. You

[3:22] can see the natural flames burning off

[3:24] some of the the fuel stacks, but it

[3:26] seems to be intact. It's also somewhat

[3:28] chaotic here in that we've been seeing

[3:31] vehicles flying across the desert,

[3:33] lights out filled with presumably

[3:35] soldiers, and we're getting reports from

[3:36] some of the tank commanders that there

[3:38] are some surrendering soldiers and

[3:40] they're not even really stopping to to

[3:42] hold them or contain them. They're

[3:43] moving that fast. They're just trying to

[3:45] penetrate as far as deep as they can.

[3:47] Peter,

[3:48] >> am I correct, Mike, that the Marines do

[3:49] not want to have to slow down to take

[3:51] care of prisoners? That for the moment

[3:52] they're prepared to leave them in place?

[3:55] >> It appears to be that way. And the

[3:57] Marines were briefed that said, "Do not

[3:58] engage anyone who did not demonstrate

[4:02] hostile intention." Uh, I was sitting

[4:04] next to two young lambs corporals who

[4:06] were locked and loaded as a truck went

[4:08] by us and they determined they were not

[4:10] hostile and let them go by. So, it is

[4:13] still dark out here, Peter. And it is a

[4:16] bit confusing, but we've not met that

[4:18] much resistance.

[4:19] >> And and you you are you uh I'm not quite

[4:22] I'll ask you the question. You can tell

[4:23] me what you're permitted to say. Do you

[4:25] know how deeply you are into the country

[4:26] at the moment?

[4:29] >> I do not know, Peter. It's We've been

[4:30] running all through the night. All I

[4:32] know is we've been running about 7 hours

[4:35] since crossing the border. Peter,

[4:37] >> it taken you 7 hours to get across the

[4:39] border. Is that because of obstacles

[4:41] that you encountered as you went?

[4:44] >> Uh, no, Peter. I'm sorry. Uh, we got

[4:46] through the border very easily. I'd say

[4:48] we have been running ever since we got

[4:50] through the border as fast as we

[4:53] possibly could go. So, we have been

[4:55] traveling this past seven hours. We were

[4:57] able to get through the border quite

[4:58] easily.

[4:59] >> And what's the terrain like?

[5:02] >> The first part of it, Peter, it was more

[5:03] like the moon moonscape. Absolutely

[5:06] flat, no terrain features at all. As

[5:08] we've gotten further into Iraq, there

[5:11] are more relief features. There's a

[5:12] little bit more vegetation. And for the

[5:14] first time, we are seeing power lines,

[5:16] roads, and I can see the lights of

[5:18] cities uh off into the distance in three

[5:20] directions. Are you are you traveling on

[5:22] the road or off the road?

[5:25] >> No, Peter. We have been going across the

[5:27] desert. Uh we have not been on a road at

[5:29] all except for an occasional dirt road.

[5:32] We saw a highway just a few minutes ago,

[5:34] but we've been pretty much going across

[5:36] the desert. Peter,

[5:37] >> and have you seen you think you see some

[5:39] Iraqis going in the other direction in

[5:41] trucks? Have you seen any other Iraqi

[5:43] forces? Have you encountered any

[5:44] opposition whatsoever?

[5:46] We are getting some reports from some of

[5:48] the lead vehicles that they are seeing

[5:51] some soldiers surrendering or at least

[5:54] standing on their trucks and not

[5:56] demonstrating any hostile intentions.

[5:58] And given the mission that these Marines

[6:00] are on now, which is to go as quickly as

[6:03] they can and seize as much ground as

[6:04] they can, they seem to be leaving them

[6:06] in place. It was something that they

[6:08] were trained uh and and they discussed

[6:10] quite a bit that they knew there might

[6:12] be some defections and they tried to

[6:14] educate the Marines as best they could

[6:16] to hold back and not shoot anything that

[6:18] was moving out here tonight. And so far

[6:20] they seem to have been demonstrating

[6:21] that restraint.

[6:22] >> Anything else, Mike?

[6:25] >> No, Peter. Uh we're not sure how much

[6:27] further we're going to go. The sun

[6:29] should be coming up in about 2 hours and

[6:32] uh we should have a better idea of where

[6:33] we are at that time. call us back at any

[6:35] time. And thank you very much indeed.

[6:37] Mike Sur reporting with the first

[6:38] Marines in Iraq. He's been with them

[6:40] from uh from uh California, traveled

[6:43] overseas with them and very deeply

[6:45] embedded in a personal way with the

[6:47] Marines that he's traveling with. But he

[6:49] does remind us that the Marine general

[6:50] commanding the US forces said uh just

[6:53] before they were about to cross the line

[6:55] of departure earlier today, when I give

[6:57] you the word, together we will cross the

[6:59] line of departure. close with those

[7:01] forces that choose to fight and destroy

[7:04] them. But our fight is not with anybody

[7:06] else, least of all with the Iraqi

[7:08] people. Let's go to the White House and

[7:10] ABC's Terry Moran. Terry, I assume

[7:13] you've heard me speculating, I hope not

[7:15] too wildly here at the moment about

[7:16] whether or not there's something going

[7:17] on. Uh, do you have any feel for it at

[7:19] all?

[7:20] >> Well, what I can tell you, some of the

[7:22] things you've been talking about on the

[7:24] battlefield stem from and are intim

[7:26] intimately connected with some

[7:28] presidential decisionmaking. the effort

[7:31] uh over the past days and weeks, which

[7:33] has intensified, it certainly sounds

[7:34] like over the past few hours, to

[7:36] communicate with senior Iraqi commanders

[7:38] and get them to surrender, is not only

[7:41] to minimize the fight and the bloodshed

[7:44] and the chaos of war, although that is

[7:45] obviously its chief objective. The

[7:48] administration wants to leave intact as

[7:51] much as possible the administrative and

[7:54] the military apparatus in Iraq. I've

[7:56] been told by senior officials they just

[7:58] want to skim the top off of the Iraqi

[8:00] leadership. They think that they can

[8:02] live with the rest of the uh Iraqi

[8:05] governmental and military apparatus in

[8:08] order to uh stabilize the country. Now

[8:11] that is a very controversial uh point of

[8:13] view in many circles. very very indeed

[8:16] and in fact deeply controversial in

[8:19] terms of members of the Iraqi opposition

[8:21] who in several cases in the last several

[8:24] weeks have wondered whether or not the

[8:25] Bush administration is not abandoning

[8:26] them in order to leave and essentially

[8:29] bath political military leadership in

[8:31] place.

[8:32] >> Absolutely. There's a lot of talk that

[8:33] it should be a debathified as Germany

[8:37] was denazified after World War II

[8:39] country. The president's day however has

[8:42] not been focused on that issue yet. It

[8:45] has been a very active day for the

[8:47] president behind the scenes. He has done

[8:49] a lot of consulting obviously not only

[8:51] with his military planners but with a

[8:53] lot of other elements in the government

[8:55] to put in place a sequence of actions

[8:59] that are essentially dismantling the

[9:01] Iraqi regime from Washington as much as

[9:04] can be done. Here's a look at what the

[9:07] president did today.

[9:09] The day began with a council of war.

[9:12] Senior officials arrived at the White

[9:14] House early with one overriding question

[9:16] on their minds. Had the US killed Saddam

[9:19] Hussein last night.

[9:22] The attack on a Baghdad villa that

[9:24] triggered the war ahead of schedule was

[9:26] the focus of high hopes among senior

[9:28] officials. They huddled in the Oval

[9:30] Office with the president taking stock

[9:31] of the first assessments.

[9:36] With Iraqi TV broadcasting this

[9:38] statement it said was Saddam Hussein.

[9:41] The debate sharpened. By midday, the

[9:43] White House was clearly still hoping the

[9:46] strike had decapitated the Iraqi regime.

[9:48] >> We have reached no conclusions about

[9:50] that videotape as to whether that is or

[9:52] is not Saddam Hussein or what time that

[9:55] may or may not have been pre-recorded.

[9:57] We've reached no conclusions.

[9:59] >> But as the day drew on, officials tamped

[10:01] down expectations of an announcement of

[10:03] Saddam's demise. President Bush himself

[10:06] offered only one public statement today

[10:08] at a wartime cabinet he called where he

[10:11] praised the troops now facing danger on

[10:13] his orders.

[10:14] >> There's no question we've set the finest

[10:16] of our citizens in harm's way. They

[10:19] perform with great skill and great

[10:21] bravery.

[10:23] We thank them. We thank their loved

[10:25] ones. We appreciate their sacrifice.

[10:29] With US troops now engaged alongside

[10:32] British and Australian forces, but

[10:34] without the combat support of any other

[10:36] nation, the White House sought to send a

[10:38] very public message about how broad the

[10:40] president's 40nation ad hoc coalition of

[10:43] the willing is.

[10:44] >> All told, the population of the

[10:46] coalition of the willing is

[10:48] approximately 1.18 billion people around

[10:51] the world. The coalition countries have

[10:53] a combined GDP

[10:55] of approximately 21.7 trillion dollars.

[10:59] Every major race, religion, and ethnic

[11:01] group in the world is represented.

[11:03] >> The president also launched a diplomatic

[11:05] war today, asking 68 countries around

[11:08] the world to expel Iraqi diplomats and

[11:10] cease dealing with the current regime.

[11:12] And the administration sought to

[11:14] dismantle Saddam's government by

[11:15] ordering the seizure of $1.4 4 billion

[11:18] dollar in Iraqi assets frozen after the

[11:21] first Gulf War.

[11:22] >> We are today directing a worldwide hunt

[11:28] for the blood money that Saddam Hussein

[11:32] and his associates have stolen from the

[11:37] Iraqi people.

[11:39] This war has been in the contingency

[11:42] planning stages for months and you can

[11:45] see not just when it comes to battle

[11:47] plans but when it comes to diplomatic

[11:50] plans, financial plans, humanitarian

[11:52] plans, this is clearly a long thoughtout

[11:55] effort to replace Saddam Hussein's

[11:57] regime.

[11:58] >> Thanks very much, Terry Moran. term ran

[11:59] at the White House uh affirming I think

[12:02] I would want to put words in his mouth

[12:04] affirming for us uh an important thought

[12:06] which was this continuous push to get

[12:07] the Iraqi leadership to collapse and to

[12:10] get various members of the high command

[12:12] both in the military and the political

[12:14] apparatus to go along with the United

[12:16] States as Terry says not merely to not

[12:19] merely to avoid the kind of casualties

[12:22] that might be invariable in a war that

[12:25] gets even more ferocious than it has

[12:27] been up until now but because as he puts

[12:28] it Bush administration um is uh is

[12:32] prepared content at the moment to leave

[12:35] large elements of the Bath regime in

[12:38] place in order to govern a country which

[12:40] is 23 24 million people but is

[12:43] profoundly deeply divided and one of the

[12:45] things the administration worries about

[12:47] more than anything perhaps and certainly

[12:49] other people worry about is what's going

[12:50] to happen in terms of the bloodletting

[12:52] if in fact Saddam Hussein and his

[12:53] entourage are defeated. Now, we want to

[12:56] talk for just a couple of minutes about

[12:57] domestic terrorism. Um, give our our

[13:01] control room upstairs the choice. Would

[13:02] you like to go overseas or domestic?

[13:04] Okay. So, we'll go to Washington. First

[13:06] of all, a little earlier today uh Pierre

[13:09] um the uh the FBI put out a be on the

[13:13] lookout uh order for a man named Adnan

[13:16] Elskuma. Elskuma, I think I pronounced

[13:19] it correctly. Um we don't know an awful

[13:22] lot about him except that he carries a

[13:24] variety of passports. Can you bring us

[13:25] up to date on why they are interested in

[13:27] him,

[13:29] >> Peter? They're extremely concerned

[13:30] because they think he was a pilot. They

[13:32] also think that he that he trained in

[13:34] Afghanistan. And he's associated,

[13:36] according to the FBI, with two men that

[13:38] they have been concerned about for a

[13:40] long time. Ramsay bin Alshe and Khaled

[13:42] Shake Muhammad. Two key planners in the

[13:45] 9/11 attacks.

[13:46] >> And I understand that he he may be Gion.

[13:49] He may have been born in Guyana, but

[13:51] carries, among others, a Saudi Arabian

[13:54] passport and even possibly a Canadian

[13:55] passport.

[13:57] >> Peter, this man is thought to carry a

[13:59] variety of passports, as you say. They

[14:01] think that he used to live in South

[14:03] Florida near where some of the 9/11

[14:05] hijackers lived, but right now they

[14:07] simply have no idea where he is.

[14:09] >> And and do you know how they arrived at

[14:11] the connection between him and Muhammad

[14:13] Ata? Well, I'm told that they developed

[14:16] some overseas uh intelligence, but also

[14:19] that Khaled Shik Muhammad identified him

[14:22] as a field commander in a uh in

[14:25] al-Qaeda.

[14:26] >> Everybody knew that when when the war

[14:28] began, the terrorist alert would go up

[14:30] here to what is at orange now, which is

[14:31] the second highest level, and there'd be

[14:33] these kind of warnings go out. In fact,

[14:35] they seem to be almost sweep up

[14:36] everything um warnings from the FBI in

[14:40] the last couple of days. But this

[14:42] particular man Elshakri Juma is his

[14:45] name. Uh you say connected to Muhammad

[14:47] Ata. Do you know how he is he come from

[14:50] this the Pakistani correction from

[14:52] Muhammad and do we know how much

[14:54] Muhammad has spilled if at all in the

[14:56] last several days?

[14:57] >> Well that's an interesting question.

[14:59] Khal Muhammad is talking but there's a

[15:02] pretty big debate on whether he's being

[15:04] extremely truthful on all fronts. They

[15:07] think some of the information he's

[15:08] giving might be accurate. this is some

[15:10] of the information that they're fairly

[15:11] comfortable with, but there's some other

[15:13] things that he's talking about that

[15:14] they're not so certain whether he's

[15:15] telling the truth and he's not been very

[15:17] specific about some of the things that

[15:19] he's given them.

[15:20] >> Okay. Thank you very much indeed. Uh

[15:22] Pierre Pierre Thomas who covers the

[15:24] Justice Department, not including the

[15:25] FBI and the FBI for us. Uh now we're

[15:28] going to go to Washington because we

[15:30] have two congressmen with us who have

[15:31] just been briefed by Secretary

[15:32] Rumsville. They are Congressman Marty

[15:34] Mian who's a Democrat from

[15:35] Massachusetts. Uh there on the right and

[15:37] there on left, Congressman Jim Saxton,

[15:39] who's a Republican from New Jersey. Let

[15:41] me start with you, Congressman Saxton.

[15:43] If I may, um what did the secretary tell

[15:45] you that you can tell the country?

[15:47] >> Uh sir, I I must say first that the

[15:50] hearing briefing that we attended

[15:52] tonight was a classified briefing uh

[15:54] that we uh were briefed at length for

[15:57] well over an hour by the secretary. uh

[16:00] that uh must have been uh three four

[16:04] dozen questions that were asked by

[16:06] members of Congress to which the uh

[16:08] secretary gave uh very specific answers.

[16:11] >> Uh and but uh I I'm sorry that we're

[16:14] really not at liberty to discuss those

[16:16] questions uh outside the room.

[16:18] >> Okay. Well, out matter of politeness, I

[16:21] won't end the interview automatically

[16:23] right now. Um but let me put it this

[16:26] way. what having listened to the

[16:28] secretary and I I totally appreciate the

[16:30] fact that it was a classified briefing

[16:31] though I didn't know it until you told

[16:32] me um did you find him confident?

[16:35] >> Uh he seemed to be uh very confident and

[16:39] um uh much of uh much of the secretary's

[16:43] attitude I think reflected u a

[16:45] confidence that uh things are in fact

[16:48] going as well as uh he expected them to

[16:51] go uh in the in the theater. Congressman

[16:54] Mian, a Democrat from Massachusetts. Can

[16:55] I ask you a a similar question? The the

[16:58] secretary and other members of the Bush

[17:00] administration, has not always been as

[17:02] interested in congressional opinion as

[17:05] you would like them to be. What was your

[17:07] impression tonight?

[17:08] >> Well, I was uh happy that the secretary

[17:11] came over to talk to the members of

[17:12] Congress. It was a very free flowing

[17:15] exchange where every member really had

[17:17] an opportunity to ask the secretary a

[17:20] question. And uh I thought it was a

[17:22] great meeting and uh you know all

[17:24] obviously the secretary and the members

[17:26] of Congress uh are waiting to see some

[17:28] of the results of um of the strike that

[17:31] has taken place tonight and that took

[17:33] place last night. But I think it's fair

[17:35] to say that uh the CIA and the uh uh

[17:38] Pentagon are working very well together

[17:40] and things seem to be going reasonably

[17:43] well.

[17:43] >> Congressman Saxman, did the let me ask

[17:45] you this. Did the secretary tell you as

[17:46] as he has said to us earlier that he has

[17:50] no information on whether Saddam Hussein

[17:52] was killed or injured during that

[17:53] attack?

[17:54] >> Um that is the uh that was the basic

[17:58] message. Yes, they they just don't know

[18:00] whether he was in fact there or not. Um

[18:03] obviously they planned the attack

[18:05] thinking that he was and um they said

[18:09] that they won't know one way or the

[18:11] other until uh the intelligence comes in

[18:13] that shows one way or the other uh that

[18:16] he was or was not there.

[18:18] >> And did did either of you get a sense

[18:20] from this briefing or do either of you

[18:22] have a sense with or without this

[18:23] briefing as to where this campaign might

[18:25] be going next? Um I think you'll see uh

[18:29] you'll see some more of the same type of

[18:31] activity that you've seen uh today uh

[18:34] for some period of time. He was not even

[18:36] specific with us on that and uh then the

[18:41] next phase of the war would kick in and

[18:44] he wasn't specific on that either. I'm

[18:45] really sorry that we can't tell you.

[18:47] >> I appreciate it's your it's your job to

[18:49] be as correct as possible and it is my

[18:50] job to push you as much as possible.

[18:52] Congressman, we're all patriotic in this

[18:54] regard. I promise you. Congressman Nian,

[18:56] um there's been great concern in the

[18:58] American population in general about the

[19:00] pace of war, the length of war. Um

[19:02] Americans in some respects have come

[19:04] almost universally to expect a fairly

[19:05] fast war. Is that the impression you

[19:07] have at the end of today?

[19:09] >> Well, basically what has happened is

[19:12] actionable intelligence that the

[19:13] president received uh uh a couple of

[19:16] days ago from the CIA director. Uh the

[19:19] campaign at this point obviously is a a

[19:22] decapitation campaign which means that

[19:24] it's geared towards the Iraqi leadership

[19:26] at this point. If in fact uh we are

[19:29] successful in that part of the campaign

[19:31] then then obviously it could end

[19:33] quicker. The the the mission here or the

[19:36] goal is to try to end this military

[19:38] conflict as quickly as possible with the

[19:40] least amount of uh loss of human life.

[19:42] And I think that's one of the reasons

[19:44] why this particular strategy has been

[19:46] pursued to try to uh take out Iraqi

[19:49] military leadership first which could

[19:51] reduce uh the loss of not only American

[19:54] lives but innocent lives as well.

[19:56] >> Well, I want to thank you both,

[19:57] Congressman Nan and beside him,

[19:58] Congressman Saxon, given the fact that

[19:59] you were both in the classified briefing

[20:01] from the Secretary of Defense, you have

[20:02] been immensely circumspect. Thank you

[20:04] both very much. Thank you very much.

[20:06] Now, I want to go to Baghdad because I

[20:07] think it's going to be the last chance

[20:08] we have for a while to talk to Richard

[20:10] Engel, our correspondent there. It's 20

[20:12] minutes after 5. As you can see, the sun

[20:14] is coming up. Richard, how's the night

[20:16] been?

[20:17] >> Well, Peter, the night has been

[20:19] relatively quiet. Not too many uh

[20:21] developments. So far, uh we're we're

[20:23] waiting to see what the day is going to

[20:25] bring at this stage. Whether it's going

[20:26] to be a a quiet day, the one day of

[20:29] experience we've got, it's shown that

[20:30] the uh the day has been a relative time

[20:32] of of safety. Hopefully, we won't be

[20:35] lured into a false sense of safety. The

[20:37] idea is during the day you go out, try

[20:39] and do a little reporting, go to some uh

[20:42] go to some sites, take a look at what

[20:43] the uh assess the damage and and then

[20:46] try and get back to your uh your hotel

[20:49] where relative degree of safety by

[20:50] nightfall.

[20:51] >> Let me just ask you a couple of several

[20:53] questions for which uh maybe for fairly

[20:55] brief answers were if you had wanted to

[20:57] go out at night uh during these attacks,

[20:59] would you have been safe to would it

[21:00] have been safe for you to go out on the

[21:01] streets?

[21:04] Well, um, yes. I think it I mean I think

[21:06] it would have been safe for me to go out

[21:08] on the streets. Um, but you never know.

[21:11] I wasn't willing uh to take that risk.

[21:13] >> As you look out

[21:15] >> Sorry, my apologies.

[21:17] >> No, no, of course. Of course. If I had

[21:18] gone out, um, no, nothing would have

[21:20] happened to me. There weren't any riots

[21:22] or looting. It would have been it would

[21:24] have been fine. And there wasn't any uh

[21:26] residual fire or shooting or anything

[21:28] like that. But when we talked to

[21:30] >> when we talked 24 hours ago or maybe it

[21:32] was not quite 24 hours ago, you were

[21:34] pointing out that there were members of

[21:35] the Bath party or the the BA

[21:37] infrastructure who were out looking for

[21:39] special forces troops on a door-to-d

[21:41] dooror basis. Did you see any of that

[21:42] last night or aware of any of that?

[21:44] >> I have seen um there was those they're

[21:47] basically doing that in u poorer

[21:50] neighborhoods. I'm in a in an area that

[21:53] is um again not a terribly residential

[21:56] area. It's um there's several banks in

[21:58] the area, some large stores, and the the

[22:02] streets are quite wide um quite like

[22:05] highways almost on either side. Not

[22:07] highways, but uh two-way roads. But this

[22:10] has been happening in in crowded small

[22:13] neighborhoods where where it's one house

[22:15] after another. It's not the kind of

[22:17] house what I've seen right around here

[22:19] is those vehicles. I've seen them on

[22:22] their I I see them where they're going,

[22:24] but they haven't necessarily

[22:26] I I hope they wouldn't necessarily stop

[22:29] uh stop me. I I drove in a taxi past one

[22:31] today and even though it's obvious that

[22:33] I'm a foreigner, no one no one stopped

[22:35] me and no one, you know, they they

[22:37] weren't bright things to me in any way.

[22:39] >> As I look at as I listen to you and look

[22:41] at our at our pictures from Baghdad, one

[22:42] of them seems to be fairly bright and

[22:44] one of them seems to be fairly dark as

[22:45] if it's night on one side of town and

[22:47] daylight on the other. Um, what

[22:50] precisely what is the light level there

[22:51] at 25 minutes after 5 in the morning?

[22:55] >> At 25 minutes past 5. Let me get a

[22:58] little closer to the uh it is uh just

[23:01] starting to uh to to to

[23:06] pitch black. It's sort of um slightly

[23:09] turning uh turning gray. And I guess

[23:11] it'll turn uh lighter shades of gray in

[23:14] the next few minutes. No, hasn't quite

[23:16] turned sun uh sun up, but you can see

[23:19] that it's just starting to uh to pearl

[23:22] the ground.

[23:23] >> Richard, just stand by if you would for

[23:25] a moment. I want to talk to you more,

[23:26] but I want to go to ABC's Jack McQuey at

[23:28] the Pentagon, who I believe has news.

[23:31] John,

[23:32] >> uh Peter, it appears that a Marine Corps

[23:34] CH46C

[23:37] Knight helicopter has crashed in Kuwait,

[23:40] not in Iraq. Uh there were 16 people

[23:43] aboard uh and their fate at this time is

[23:46] unknown but we are told it does not look

[23:49] good. Uh there were casualties on this

[23:51] crash. It is unclear what caused it. Uh

[23:54] but if indeed there are fatalities which

[23:57] officials are indicating there are uh

[23:59] these would be the first deaths first

[24:02] American deaths uh of this conflict.

[24:04] >> And do we know how how it crashed?

[24:07] >> No, we don't.

[24:08] >> And can you tell us again what the kind

[24:09] what kind of a helicopter it was? It's a

[24:11] CH46. It is a Yeah, it's a C knight. Uh

[24:15] it is one of the standard helicopters

[24:17] that the Marine Corps uses to move its

[24:19] troops uh quickly back and forth from

[24:22] ships to shore and then uh uh up and

[24:25] down the battlefield. It's a very very

[24:27] reliable helicopter. Um and they have

[24:30] hundreds of them.

[24:30] >> This is these are the helicopters that

[24:32] were built many of them back in the 60s

[24:33] and the 70s have been coming to the

[24:35] waror for all the services. Correct.

[24:37] >> That's correct.

[24:37] >> Okay. and 16 men on board.

[24:40] >> 16 uh men on board and uh fate unknown,

[24:44] but uh there are some indications we are

[24:46] told that uh at least some of them have

[24:49] probably perished.

[24:50] >> Okay, John. Um thank you very much. Uh

[24:52] awkward to change subjects quickly, but

[24:54] let me if I may um ask you also about

[24:57] the rumors that we keep hearing very

[25:00] much on the periphery of the information

[25:02] bubble about the Republican Guard or

[25:05] members of the Republican Guard

[25:06] defecting. Can you add to that?

[25:08] >> Well, once again, Defense Secretary

[25:10] Rumsfeld came out of uh a briefing uh

[25:13] just a few minutes ago on Capitol Hill

[25:16] and again advanced the notion uh that uh

[25:20] some highranking members of the Iraqi

[25:23] military uh are showing signs of being

[25:27] interested in communicating with the

[25:30] United States. We understand from behind

[25:32] the scenes that uh the US is somehow in

[25:36] contact with named senior Republican

[25:40] Guard officials. uh how they are in

[25:43] contact uh with the US uh is unknown to

[25:46] me but the administration finds this

[25:48] very encouraging and they believe that

[25:51] it is uh a result of the pressure first

[25:54] the diplomatic and now the military and

[25:56] now the battlefield pressure uh that is

[25:59] being put on this regime and Rumsfeld's

[26:03] uh approach to this which is the

[26:05] inevitability that Saddam Hussein one

[26:08] way or the other is going

[26:09] >> I ask you questions I'm not sure you can

[26:11] answer Do we believe that maybe these

[26:13] contacts if they exist with the

[26:14] Republican Guard

[26:16] are with elements of the Republican

[26:18] Guard in the south or in the north or

[26:20] might they be in Baghdad itself? Uh I

[26:23] would think that it is uh around Baghdad

[26:26] Peter that is where the center of

[26:28] gravity is for the Republican Guard. Of

[26:30] course the special Republican Guard are

[26:32] actually inside the city uh and they are

[26:35] not claiming contact with them. These

[26:37] are people who generally hail from

[26:40] closer to the hometown of Saddam Hussein

[26:42] to Cree. Uh but the Republican Guard,

[26:45] which is also a very fearsome fighting

[26:47] force, uh generally protects the city,

[26:50] but the special Republican Guard will

[26:51] not let them inside. Anyway, uh to your

[26:55] >> but the point is I very very interesting

[26:57] description. The point is if you're

[26:59] talking to Republican guard in the

[27:01] Baghdad area, you're pretty far up the

[27:03] command chain, right?

[27:04] >> Oh, absolutely. uh very far up but uh

[27:09] where they are having these contacts is

[27:11] not exactly clear to me.

[27:12] >> Anything else John for the moment?

[27:14] >> No.

[27:14] >> Come back to us when you can. Um just to

[27:17] repeat what John said and um

[27:22] it's interesting because uh when you

[27:23] talk to commanders in the field uh just

[27:25] before this war began, they all tell you

[27:29] um almost to a man, in fact, to a man um

[27:32] that they want Americans to be aware in

[27:34] this particular campaign just what war

[27:36] is like. And they also talk about the

[27:39] confusion. And if you look back at the

[27:41] histories of the Gulf War, you see that

[27:43] American men and women died in combat

[27:46] and died even before they got into

[27:49] combat. And this may turn out to be the

[27:51] case tonight uh with 16 people and and

[27:55] assumably a Marine crew as well on

[27:57] board. Um that's actually not the

[27:59] helicopter that would be in question.

[28:01] That is not the helicopter that we're

[28:03] referring to. Uh the helicopter they're

[28:05] referring to is called by the Marines if

[28:07] I recall a sea knight, but it's a famous

[28:10] shinook helicopter. It's the one with

[28:11] the two blades front and rear. Uh which

[28:14] is used by all of the services. There it

[28:17] is. There u called as I said a she a

[28:20] shinook by the army and m which means a

[28:23] sort of multi multiplicity of uses that

[28:26] it can actually have called by the

[28:28] marines a seite traveling inside Kuwait.

[28:30] Helicopter went down. Do not know how it

[28:32] went down. It may have been an operating

[28:34] failure. There's been some terrible

[28:36] weather in Kuwait, as you know, these

[28:37] sandstorms. We have no idea whether that

[28:39] could have happened. We shall do our

[28:41] very best to confirm this for you uh in

[28:45] in in realistic time, but as John says

[28:48] from the Pentagon, well, that answers

[28:50] the question about the weather. As John

[28:52] said, from the Pentagon, uh 16 people

[28:54] were on board. There would be a crew of

[28:56] 1, two, three. There'd be at least a

[28:57] crew of four on board, both front and

[28:59] aft, on a helicopter like that. And we

[29:02] that's all we know at the moment. Now

[29:05] John Hillen, former special ops officer,

[29:08] you wanted to get in the conversation a

[29:09] moment ago. John, what was it about?

[29:11] >> Well, Peter, you know, there were almost

[29:13] as many people killed in accidents as

[29:15] were killed in combat during the first

[29:17] Gulf War. So, I think especially with

[29:19] such movement of people and people tired

[29:21] of getting ready for operations, it's

[29:22] very unfortunately something we can come

[29:24] to expect. If you remember only a few

[29:26] weeks ago, we had a Blackhawk

[29:27] helicopter, a considerably newer variant

[29:29] of helicopters uh tragically crash up

[29:32] near Fort Drum, New York. We've also

[29:34] lost helicopters recently just to

[29:35] training accidents in Afghanistan and

[29:37] the Philippines and Honduras and

[29:39] elsewhere. So this is unfortunately, as

[29:42] you pointed out, uh you know, one of the

[29:44] uh the um one of the preludes to war is

[29:46] a large number of accidents that can

[29:48] happen at this stage in a war or through

[29:50] it. This is not necessarily a time to be

[29:52] teaching people about helicopters, but

[29:53] if you see the M in front of a helic in

[29:56] front of a serial number on a

[29:57] helicopter, you know, it's a

[29:58] multi-purpose helicopter. If you see an

[29:59] A in front of it, it's an attack

[30:00] helicopter. Um, not a particular and and

[30:03] and you come to expect these kind of

[30:06] things. Nobody, of course, expects uh

[30:08] these things at the moment. Um, and so

[30:11] there is the word of what we believe may

[30:13] possibly be the first American

[30:14] casualties. This is ABC News continuing

[30:16] live coverage of the war against Iraq.

[30:28] I'm Peter Jennings at ABC News

[30:30] headquarters. It is uh 9:30 in the East,

[30:32] 6:30 Pacific time, 5:30 in the morning,

[30:35] the sun just coming up in Iraq. And

[30:38] here, as best we can tell at the moment,

[30:40] is the news summary of this particular

[30:43] moment. And it would be led in every

[30:46] news agency at the moment with the news

[30:47] we've just had from the Pentagon that

[30:49] there were 16 Marines and a crew

[30:53] perhaps, can't be absolutely sure about

[30:54] that, on board a Marine helicopter that

[30:56] has crashed inside Kuwait, not in Iraq.

[30:59] And we do not know how many, if any, of

[31:02] those Marines have survived. But if they

[31:05] have been killed traveling across Kuwait

[31:08] uh in the early morning hours, these

[31:10] would be the first casualties that we

[31:12] are aware of in the operation to

[31:16] decapitate the leadership of Iraq in

[31:19] Saddam Hussein. Now, this is out of

[31:22] context, of course, because President

[31:23] Bush said early today he was pleased

[31:25] with how what they call operation Iraqi

[31:28] freedom is going. He would not have

[31:30] known of this news when he said that. Uh

[31:32] the defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld

[31:34] said a short while ago the campaign is

[31:35] going very well. He gave a classified

[31:37] briefing to senators and to some

[31:39] congressmen a little earlier and he

[31:41] appraised the approach which US

[31:43] commanders are taking at the moment as

[31:45] excellent. We're not altogether sure

[31:47] what that approach is but there's been a

[31:49] ground operation going on which many

[31:51] maybe people thought would be preceded

[31:53] by an air operation and we know very

[31:55] little about the air operation at the

[31:57] moment. The USled attack on Iraq has set

[32:00] off a series of protests worldwide. Um

[32:03] that's another item of news at this hour

[32:05] all over the world and in the United

[32:07] States as well. The US, we learned from

[32:09] the White House, is setting aside

[32:10] 661,000

[32:12] tons of wheat to feed Iraqis. Terry

[32:14] Moran told us from the White House a

[32:16] while ago, this is an example of the

[32:17] Bush administration thinking to the

[32:19] second phase of all this. pilots uh who

[32:22] we've talked to with our embedded

[32:24] reporters in a variety of locations say

[32:25] the skies over Iraq are now crowded as

[32:28] American jets run non-stop missions most

[32:32] of them from sea we don't know

[32:34] altogether about land operations but

[32:35] most of them from aircraft carriers in

[32:37] the Persian Gulf and in the Red Sea on

[32:41] the other side of Saudi Arabia to the

[32:43] west and the British are running

[32:44] missions as well so as we anticipated

[32:46] the skies are very crowded a very

[32:48] complicated operation with all those

[32:50] aircraft coming and going. Pentagon

[32:52] officials tell us the massive assault on

[32:54] Iraq has yet to begin. Iraq may have

[32:57] fired some long range missiles that it

[32:59] has claimed not to have, but we're not

[33:01] sure of that. We know they fired some

[33:03] short-range missiles earlier today

[33:04] against Kuwait. Not altogether certain

[33:07] what they were aiming at, but nobody

[33:08] appears to have been harmed. Uh

[33:10] anti-terrorist officials in France are

[33:13] taking some extra precautions to guard

[33:15] against a terrorist attack because

[33:17] earlier today they found traces of the

[33:20] poison Ryson in some packages at the

[33:23] Guardilon train station in Paris. And

[33:26] here to talk briefly about that with us

[33:28] is ABC's chief investigative reporter

[33:30] Brian Ross. Authorities there in France,

[33:33] uh Peter, tell us they believe they

[33:34] disrupted what could have been an attack

[33:36] against US targets in either France or

[33:39] Italy. They have been keeping an eye on

[33:41] one locker at the train station, uh with

[33:44] hopes that whoever was responsible would

[33:45] come to pick it up.

[33:46] >> Okay, Brian, just stand by for a second.

[33:48] I want to go back to John McCarthy of

[33:49] the Pentagon because I think we know

[33:50] more about the Marines. John?

[33:52] >> Yeah, Peter, we do. Officials have

[33:54] confirmed there are 16 dead uh in what

[33:58] appears to be an accident and they are

[34:00] both British Royal Commandos uh and some

[34:05] American special uh some American

[34:08] Marines. So they were returning from a

[34:11] mission. Uh officials will not say uh

[34:14] whether this mission was in Iraq. Uh but

[34:18] the crash or the downing of the

[34:20] helicopter uh did occur in friendly

[34:23] territory in Kuwait and that is all we

[34:25] know tonight.

[34:26] >> 16 people including the crew, right,

[34:27] John?

[34:28] >> That's correct.

[34:29] >> Okay, thanks very much. No survivors on

[34:31] the on the seight carrying British Royal

[34:34] Commandos and Marines back from a

[34:36] mission. The first casualties uh we are

[34:39] aware of both British and American that

[34:41] we have heard of today in this mission

[34:44] returning from operations very likely in

[34:47] Iraq because earlier British pool

[34:49] reporting told us that British forces

[34:50] have attacked what's described in their

[34:52] dispatches as Red Beach at the head of

[34:55] the Persian Gulf in southern Iraq. Iraq

[34:58] only has one port uh with access to the

[35:01] sea and both British commandos, members

[35:04] of the Royal Marines and other forces

[35:06] were moving in that direction earlier

[35:07] this evening. US Marines continue to

[35:10] advance into Iraq at this hour. We've

[35:12] had reports from various units. They're

[35:13] not all moving. Some of them are still

[35:15] standing still according to our

[35:17] reporters, but some Marines are moving

[35:18] very quickly according to ABC's Mike Sur

[35:21] across the desert floor well inside

[35:23] Iraq. British forces, as we know, are

[35:26] fighting with their Americans in Iraq.

[35:29] And there are there is an occasion in

[35:32] this war where in the eastern side of

[35:35] the attack in southern Iraq, Marines are

[35:38] actually under the command of British

[35:40] officers. This is the first time I think

[35:43] in as long as I can remember, other

[35:45] people know better, but this is the

[35:46] first time in a long time that American

[35:48] uh Marines have fought under the command

[35:50] of a British officer who of course in

[35:53] turn is under command of the chairman of

[35:55] all operations which who is an American.

[35:57] Uh the Senate today has unanimously

[35:59] approved resolation resolution uh

[36:02] commending the forces American forces in

[36:04] the Gulf and the commanderin-chief. Of

[36:06] course, Iraq says it is going to ask the

[36:08] security council to respond to the USled

[36:11] war. Uh there has been some general

[36:14] level, not high, but generally intense,

[36:17] now I take it back. There's been some

[36:18] general dissatisfaction from some of

[36:20] America's most important allies at the

[36:22] governmental level today about this

[36:24] campaign. The French have expressed

[36:25] themselves. The Russians have expressed

[36:26] themselves. Uh the Germans have

[36:28] expressed themselves. And while a lot of

[36:30] people in America do not think they are

[36:31] America's allies, at the moment, they

[36:33] are. and they have expressed their

[36:35] dissatisfaction with the fact that

[36:36] ultimately the US has gone to war. Uh

[36:39] Iraqi media denying a report that US and

[36:42] British troops have captured a city in

[36:45] southern Iraq. It's a small city called

[36:47] Um Kaser uh which is at the head of the

[36:49] waterway going up from the Persian Gulf.

[36:51] Um our sources say that British and

[36:53] perhaps American troops have captured

[36:55] that city and are well on their way to

[36:58] Bastra. We did hear earlier there been

[37:00] explosions in Bastra but we cannot give

[37:02] you any sense of the dimension of the

[37:03] fighting there. And very importantly for

[37:06] this US principally US operation but US

[37:10] and British is that Turkish lawmakers

[37:12] earlier today gave the United States

[37:14] permission to use Turkish airspace to

[37:16] fly into Iraq. They cannot fly from the

[37:20] base. I think I'm correct in this.

[37:22] cannot fly from Insurlic, which is the

[37:24] big base that the US always uses up

[37:26] there. But they can overfly Turkey from

[37:29] other places either in Europe or in the

[37:30] Mediterranean, from carriers into

[37:32] northern Iraq, where we did hear also a

[37:35] little while ago there's some explosions

[37:37] in Mosul, the city in the very

[37:39] northernmost part of Iraq, uh, which is

[37:42] very close to the area under Kurdish

[37:45] control. Let's go there at the moment.

[37:47] ABC's Charlie Glass is in the north in

[37:50] the in the northern city of Sulmania.

[37:54] Tur Charlie, what can you tell us about

[37:56] anything that's happening up there

[37:57] tonight or any reports you've heard

[37:59] about the north?

[38:03] >> Well, there are two large Iraqi army

[38:06] cores in the north. One near Kerkook and

[38:09] one near Mosul. We're having reports

[38:11] that there are explosions around Mosul,

[38:13] but the reports cannot confirm whether

[38:15] those report whether the the firing

[38:17] comes from the air or from the land or

[38:19] what the nature of the explosions are.

[38:21] Uh there were reports earlier in the day

[38:23] that there were air raid sirens in and

[38:25] around Mosul, but those seem to have

[38:27] been precautionary rather than because

[38:28] there were air raids going on in the

[38:30] daylight hours. Um, at the moment, uh,

[38:33] we know for a fact from our reporters

[38:35] who were down in Chamchal near Kirk

[38:37] Cook, that the skies around Kirk Cook

[38:39] itself, which is the larger, uh, oil

[38:41] field in the north, uh, those skies are

[38:43] quiet and there's no bombing there. And

[38:45] have you heard any have you have seen

[38:47] any evidence today that now that the

[38:49] Turks have given the US overflight

[38:51] rights of the US flying into the region

[38:53] at all or any aircraft flying into the

[38:55] region?

[38:59] The skies above Sulmania and areas where

[39:01] we have people have been completely

[39:03] quiet all day. There's been absolutely

[39:04] no air activity in in this part of

[39:06] northern Iraq and no sign of any such

[39:09] activity. What what we have seen is the

[39:11] preparation of Kurdish airfields here.

[39:14] There are four large uh runways in the

[39:16] north that the Americans could use if

[39:18] they want to and the Kurds have been

[39:19] asked to prepare them for possible use

[39:22] by American aircraft bringing in either

[39:24] men or material.

[39:25] >> For the last 12 years up there, Charlie,

[39:27] the Kurds have led a pretty independent

[39:29] and even prosperous existence under the

[39:31] protection of the United States and

[39:33] Britain. What sort of condition is the

[39:36] Kurdish are the Kurdish fighting forces

[39:38] in? Who could they take on?

[39:41] >> Well, they've mobilized. They've mo

[39:44] they've mobilized their militias, the

[39:45] Peshmergas, the Kurdish word for those

[39:47] who face death. Um they are everywhere

[39:49] in the streets these days, which which

[39:51] wasn't the case a couple of weeks ago.

[39:53] But they're not fighting anywhere.

[39:54] They're prepared. The the the patriotic

[39:57] union of Kurdistan guerrillas are now

[39:58] preparing for an onslaught against Ansar

[40:01] al-Islam, a fundamentalist Muslim

[40:03] movement that Coen Powell referred to at

[40:05] the United Nations, which is based near

[40:07] Halabja along the Iranian border. And

[40:10] there may well be operations there. The

[40:12] commander of the Peshmerga here told me

[40:13] that when the war began, the US would

[40:16] assist it with air support in an attack

[40:19] on those Ansar gerillas.

[40:20] >> And and how threatening because you're

[40:22] going to lead me in a direction here

[40:23] now. How threatening is Ansar al-Islam

[40:26] thought to be either to the region uh

[40:30] large or small and to any overall

[40:32] campaign by the US against the Iraqis?

[40:38] >> Well, they're small. There are a few

[40:39] hundred of them. They are largely

[40:41] contained by the patriotic union of

[40:42] Kurdistan's militia men. Some of their

[40:45] militia and even one of their military

[40:46] commanders have been assassinated by uh

[40:48] Ansar. But in terms of a larger threat,

[40:51] they don't seem to pose one either to

[40:54] possible lines of communications or to

[40:56] any offensive which would actually be uh

[40:58] against Kirkuk and Mosul and not that

[41:00] far east along the Iranian border.

[41:02] >> One one last question about Ansar

[41:04] al-Islam. It is sometimes compared to

[41:06] al-Qaeda, but more specifically to the

[41:08] Taliban, even in their hundreds. Is that

[41:10] a fair representation as far as we know?

[41:15] >> Well, they're mostly Kurdish uh

[41:17] fundamentalist, very small group.

[41:19] Sometimes they've received support from

[41:20] Iran. They are said to have received

[41:23] some of the Afghans and Afghan Arabs who

[41:25] fled Afghanistan, went across Iran, and

[41:28] ended up here because there was nowhere

[41:29] else for them to go.

[41:31] >> Okay, Charlie, I much appreciate it. I

[41:32] know it's the beginning of another day

[41:34] for you in in in the north there. So,

[41:36] please come back to us uh with any news

[41:38] or any impressions. ABC's Charles Glass

[41:41] worked off and on in the Middle East. A

[41:43] real expert of the Middle East, worked

[41:45] on and off for gosh almost 30 years now

[41:47] and someone we rely on and has been in

[41:49] the north for quite some time. So, if

[41:51] anybody has a feel for the North in this

[41:53] campaign, it will be him. Uh, let me go

[41:56] from Ansar al-Islam, whose terrorism

[41:58] worries northern Iraq and worries

[42:01] anybody who would go into northern Iraq

[42:02] at the moment to domestic terrorism and

[42:05] in and bring back ABC's Brian Ross. Um,

[42:09] we were talking a little earlier to

[42:10] Pierre Thomas about the very widespread

[42:13] sweep it all up warnings that the FBI

[42:15] and other elements in the Justice

[42:16] Department have been putting out in the

[42:17] last several days. What is the general

[42:20] concern and who most concerned about?

[42:22] >> Well, they're most concerned about

[42:24] al-Qaeda. They're very much uh while

[42:26] they're on the offensive in Iraq,

[42:27] they're very much on the defensive here

[42:29] with people issuing dire warnings that a

[42:32] war could trigger a sympathetic attack.

[42:35] So, we took a look, Peter, at what

[42:37] exactly Americans should be on the

[42:39] lookout for should a terror attack come.

[42:48] >> American law enforcement authorities say

[42:50] the country should be ready for people

[42:51] like those in this vehicle. Terrorists

[42:54] on the move seen in an FBI aerial

[42:57] surveillance tape just 5 months before

[42:59] the September 11th attacks. In this

[43:01] case, on the streets of suburban Miami.

[43:04] >> Brother, you tell me. I don't know the

[43:06] area that you do.

[43:07] >> I have already met with us.

[43:09] >> Inside the vehicle, another FBI hidden

[43:12] camera is rolling as the man calling the

[43:14] shots. Imran Mandai from Pakistan talks

[43:17] of finding targets.

[43:19] >> They were scouting out places that they

[43:21] wanted to bomb. specifically one airport

[43:24] that had a power plant facility nearby.

[43:28] They talked about blowing that up and it

[43:30] could have been a disaster.

[43:33] >> You know what this you know the stuff

[43:35] this is? This is launcher.

[43:37] >> Launcher.

[43:38] >> This is

[43:38] >> And when an FBI undercover operative

[43:40] offered a carload of weapons, rocket

[43:42] propelled mortars, AR-15 assault rifles,

[43:46] and explosive material.

[43:47] >> Explosives, right?

[43:48] >> Uh-huh.

[43:49] >> And this is

[43:49] >> Bandai took the bait. According to

[43:51] federal prosecutor Jeffrey Sloman,

[43:54] >> he was actively seeking to engage in a

[43:57] jihad against the United States. He was

[44:00] auditioning for Osama bin Laden.

[44:03] >> This is the precise scenario that

[44:05] American authorities fear could be

[44:06] triggered by war in Iraq.

[44:09] >> You want to check it?

[44:10] >> Islamic radicals ready to fight for Bin

[44:12] Laden or terror sleeper cells already

[44:15] inside the country poised to strike.

[44:18] >> It could be the trigger. So last night's

[44:21] uh bombing in Baghdad,

[44:23] >> last night could do it. They could think

[44:25] that as soon as the United States begins

[44:28] attacking Arabs uh that they should do

[44:31] something.

[44:32] >> Few people know more about the terror

[44:34] threat America now faces than Richard

[44:36] Clark.

[44:37] >> Until 6 weeks ago, Clark worked at the

[44:39] White House as the national coordinator

[44:42] for security and counterterrorism.

[44:44] On September 11th, it was Clark on a TV

[44:47] hookup from the White House who briefed

[44:49] President Bush in an Air Force bunker in

[44:52] Nebraska.

[44:52] >> We'll do the other grandfather.

[44:54] >> Now, an ABC News consultant, Clark gave

[44:56] us the kind of briefing he once gave the

[44:59] three presidents he served over the last

[45:01] 11 years.

[45:02] >> Iraqi intelligence and Iraqi terrorism

[45:05] per se, I don't think is the threat. I

[45:07] think it's sympathizers or groups like

[45:10] al-Qaeda, possibly even Hamas that

[45:13] decide that they're going to do

[45:14] something in support of Iraq.

[45:16] >> Even with Osama bin Laden thought to be

[45:18] on the run in the mountains on the

[45:20] border of Pakistan, even with this top

[45:22] military commander, Khaled Shik Muhammad

[45:25] in custody, Clark says al-Qaeda and its

[45:28] sleeper cells remain a threat.

[45:30] >> We have reports of al-Qaeda using people

[45:32] who have a West European appearance. So

[45:35] they may have sleeper cells that the FBI

[45:37] doesn't know about and is not following.

[45:40] >> In the kind of briefing he used to give

[45:42] to presidents, Clark says another hijack

[45:44] attack is unlikely.

[45:46] >> Airplanes are probably the safest place

[45:47] to be right now and airports are

[45:49] probably the safest place to be right

[45:50] now.

[45:51] >> Nor is Clark overly concerned about

[45:53] reports al-Qaeda might try to poison

[45:55] America's water supplies.

[45:57] >> It's very difficult to poison a water

[45:58] supply unless you take over the pumping

[46:00] station. Uh and we would probably know

[46:03] if that happened. But Clark does worry

[46:06] about so-called soft targets.

[46:08] >> An attack on a shopping mall, an attack

[46:10] on a resort area like Las Vegas or

[46:13] Disney World would really hurt one

[46:15] sector of the economy. And it doesn't

[46:17] take a big attack.

[46:19] >> When you were at the White House, were

[46:20] you asked about the worst case scenario?

[46:22] >> Well, the worst case scenario is also

[46:24] the least likely. The worst case

[46:25] scenario is a nuclear bomb going off in

[46:27] the United States. Clark says the White

[46:29] House already has estimates for possible

[46:31] damage with projected nuclear fallout

[46:34] footprints like this one calculated for

[46:36] a 1 kiloton ground burst in New York

[46:39] City. The red circle represents the 100%

[46:43] casualty zone.

[46:44] >> You game this out.

[46:45] >> We've gamed it out over and over and

[46:47] over again. And the

[46:48] >> How does it come out? Well, the answers

[46:49] are never satisfactory,

[46:51] >> which is why Clark says the highly

[46:53] visible added police patrols, including

[46:56] special forces teams trained to disarm

[46:58] nuclear weapons, are now seen all over

[47:01] New York and Washington.

[47:02] >> You have to assume it's highly likely

[47:04] that during the course of this war,

[47:06] there will be a terrorist attack in the

[47:07] United States. And now authorities say

[47:10] they are aggressively pursuing the same

[47:12] controversial tactics they used last

[47:14] year to disrupt the plans of Imran

[47:16] Mandai, the terrorist in Florida.

[47:19] >> They're walking west right now.

[47:21] >> The FBI put an undercover operative into

[47:24] the mosque Mandai attended in Pemrook

[47:26] Pines, Florida.

[47:27] >> He wanted to put together a group of men

[47:29] totaling between 30 and 60, uh, which we

[47:33] would consider a platoon, and this would

[47:35] be his terrorist cell. The leaders of

[47:37] the Florida mosque said they had no idea

[47:39] of Mandai's intentions, but it is now

[47:42] one of more than a dozen mosques across

[47:44] the country being closely watched by

[47:46] federal agents.

[47:48] >> When you have reason to believe that

[47:49] some facilities like this have been used

[47:52] in the past by terrorists as safe

[47:55] havens, then I think that concern

[47:58] overrides our civil liberties concern.

[48:01] As for Mandai, he was convicted last

[48:03] year of plotting to commit terrorist

[48:05] acts and is now in federal prison. But

[48:07] American authorities fear there are many

[48:09] more like him around the country who

[48:12] they have yet to discover.

[48:13] >> This is the world.

[48:15] >> If you were advising the president now,

[48:16] as you did in your old job, would you

[48:18] tell him that the chance of a terrorist

[48:20] attack in this country is remote,

[48:23] likely? Certain perhaps? I never say

[48:26] certain, but I would say at this point

[48:28] if they're at all capable of doing it,

[48:30] now is the time they're going to do it.

[48:37] >> Which is why, Peter, the FBI is on such

[48:38] a 24-hour alert. But to date, no

[48:41] problems.

[48:42] >> Thanks, Brian. Brian Ross very much on

[48:43] domestic terrorism in the country today.

[48:45] Um, I want to try to catch up with this

[48:48] uh what appears to be an accident in

[48:50] Kuwait tonight. The British Broadcasting

[48:52] Corporation is now reporting that there

[48:54] were 12 Marines on board. The British,

[48:57] put it this way, 12 US and four British

[48:59] on this helicopter uh that went down. Uh

[49:03] it is described to us as a scenite. And

[49:05] I know how very often we layman can

[49:08] grate on the minds um of military men um

[49:13] if we if we try to describe something

[49:15] about which we're not 100% sure. But I'm

[49:17] going to bring in Tony Cordisman, our

[49:18] military consultant. Tony, my

[49:20] understanding is that a scenite

[49:22] helicopter used by the Marines and also

[49:24] by the Navy and a Chinook helicopter as

[49:26] I've mistakenly described it in the

[49:28] minds of some Marines are pretty much

[49:30] the same kind of utility lift

[49:31] helicopter. Right or wrong,

[49:34] >> Peter? They're similar, but the Seite is

[49:37] smaller and it's strengthened because

[49:38] you have to deal with hard landings on

[49:41] amphibious ships. Okay. So, the C9 is

[49:43] used by the Navy and by the Marines, and

[49:45] the Chinook is used by the military and

[49:48] sorry, by the Army and by the other

[49:50] services as well.

[49:51] >> That's right. Actually, it's also the

[49:53] Seite that the Osprey was supposed to

[49:56] have replaced about 5 years ago. So,

[49:59] it's been rebuilt several times. As Jack

[50:01] McQuey says, it's still reliable, but

[50:04] it's a very old helicopter.

[50:05] >> Okay. I apologize to the Marines who are

[50:07] who are watching us uh carefully and I

[50:10] would also venture the opinion that they

[50:12] will agree with undoubtedly that what's

[50:14] of greatest concern at the moment is

[50:16] that 12 Marines or 12 Americans 12

[50:18] Marines were told from the Pentagon and

[50:20] four Brits have died coming back from a

[50:23] mission we believe it was inside Iraq

[50:25] but we do not know. We do know that the

[50:27] Marines and the and the British forces,

[50:29] the Royal Marines have been moving up

[50:31] the eastern side of this long uh tail on

[50:35] the eastern side of Iraq towards Basra

[50:37] tonight. We do not know how successful

[50:39] they have been. We keep hearing about

[50:41] explosions around Basra, but there's

[50:43] been no close in reporting as to what

[50:47] has actually been happening there. Um I

[50:50] want to go overseas again. Now, we've

[50:51] talked we've talked a little bit about

[50:53] the dissatisfaction overseas with the

[50:54] campaign today or with the war, I should

[50:58] say. Today, there were very quite

[50:59] violent riots in in um in Cairo today

[51:03] where the Egyptian government let people

[51:06] demonstrate against the war because it

[51:08] was a way for them to vent steam. Um and

[51:10] there there have not been any major

[51:13] major serious demonstrations inside

[51:14] Jordan and the Jordanian government has

[51:16] really made it very clear that anybody

[51:18] who gets out of line in Jordan is in for

[51:19] trouble. ABC's Dan Harris, who was until

[51:21] very recently in Baghdad, is now in the

[51:23] Jordanian capital of man. Dan,

[51:27] >> Peter, today or on Wednesday, it's now

[51:29] Thursday morning here, as you know. On

[51:30] Wednesday, the government unveiled some

[51:31] new rules, you just alluded to them,

[51:33] that really crack down on any sort of

[51:34] demonstration or protest by anti-western

[51:37] groups. These new rules essentially say

[51:38] that any anti-western group or any

[51:40] anti-government group that holds a

[51:42] protest that has any potential of

[51:44] leading to violence, this will be banned

[51:46] and cracked down on hard. The government

[51:48] here is really taking a risk by quietly

[51:50] supporting the uh war in Iraq when the

[51:52] vast majority of the people here do not

[51:54] support the war. There was a small

[51:56] protest today. I believe we have some

[51:58] pictures at the university in Aman about

[52:00] a thousand students. Uh they were penned

[52:02] up against the gate, the campus gate.

[52:04] The police were standing right outside

[52:06] and the students knew very well that if

[52:08] they got outside of the campus, they

[52:09] were going to have to deal with these

[52:10] riot police who had sticks. Those police

[52:13] later chased off all onlookers,

[52:14] including the media. So the government

[52:16] here very much on edge, very much

[52:18] looking out for any protests.

[52:20] >> And there is a very significant Iraqi

[52:21] population which has been living in

[52:23] Jordan. I think about 300,000 Iraqis

[52:25] live in Jordan who lived there in exile

[52:26] from Saddam Hussein. And the government

[52:28] is, am I correct, worried about some

[52:30] fifth columnists there who may cause

[52:32] trouble when the war began.

[52:36] >> Absolutely. This has been a concern for

[52:37] quite some time because the relationship

[52:39] between Jordan and Iraq changed

[52:41] dramatically. As you know, the

[52:42] government here was neutral publicly

[52:44] during the war. the first Gulf War back

[52:46] in 1991. A couple of years after that,

[52:48] the government changed its stance and

[52:50] tilted toward the United States. And

[52:52] ever since then, the Iraqi population

[52:53] here has been problematic in the eyes of

[52:55] the government because there are people

[52:57] here that the government thinks work for

[52:59] Saddam Hussein and their job may be to

[53:02] cause trouble. But as as people in

[53:04] Jordan sometimes say a little too

[53:05] glibly, the Jordanians are caught

[53:07] between Iraq and a hard place because up

[53:11] at least until the beginning of this

[53:12] war, the Jordanians were getting a huge

[53:14] overwhelming amount of their fuel and a

[53:17] lot of it free from the Iraqis.

[53:20] >> I believe they were getting all of their

[53:22] oil from the Iraqis. Half of it free,

[53:23] half of it subsidized. They have

[53:25] recently cut a deal with the help of I

[53:27] believe brokered by the United States to

[53:29] to uh take care of any shortcoming in

[53:32] the oil coming in from Iraq during the

[53:34] war. Saudi Arabia has agreed to

[53:36] contribute a lot of free oil in the case

[53:37] that the oil from Iraq gets cut off.

[53:40] Economically, this is a very difficult

[53:41] situation in terms of internal politics

[53:43] for the king here Abdullah. It is also a

[53:45] very difficult situation. Most of the

[53:47] population here are Palestinian. They

[53:49] have very positive feelings about Saddam

[53:50] Hussein who for years has been an open

[53:53] economic and psychological philosophical

[53:55] patron of the anti-Israeli inifat.

[53:58] >> Interesting. Dan, you said you had some

[53:59] pictures. We'll try to find them. Did

[54:00] you send them to us?

[54:03] >> We did send them in and they're they're

[54:05] nothing overwhelming, but you can really

[54:06] see from the pictures that the police

[54:08] here are very vigilant. And these

[54:10] students knew that if they came outside

[54:11] of the gate of the university, they were

[54:13] going to be meet they were going to have

[54:14] an unpleasant meeting with men with

[54:16] large batons and sticks. Okay, we'll

[54:19] look for them. We'll get the control

[54:20] room to find them. Many thanks for

[54:21] checking in. Just a little uh before uh

[54:24] a little before 5:00. What is your time

[54:26] there? 5 10 to 5 in the morning.

[54:29] >> 10 to certainly uh after Yes. 10 to 5 in

[54:31] the morning. Yeah.

[54:32] >> Okay. Many thanks. Dan Harris in the

[54:33] Jordanian capital. Man, another day

[54:35] ahead of them. Very difficult position

[54:37] to be. And when the war begins, one of

[54:40] the other people, now that the war has

[54:41] begun, one of the other people we want

[54:43] to check in with is David Wright, uh,

[54:45] who's a few hundred kilometers to the

[54:48] east on the Jordanian Iraqi border. Um,

[54:51] David, had you told us yesterday that a

[54:53] surprisingly few people were coming or

[54:55] going and as many people were going back

[54:57] into Iraq as coming out. Has that

[54:59] changed?

[55:01] >> Well, it has changed a bit, Peter. The

[55:04] uh, traffic has slowed to a trickle

[55:06] going toward the border. Also, the

[55:08] Jordanian authorities have made this a

[55:10] closed military zone. Only military

[55:13] vehicles are allowed in. Only refugees

[55:15] are allowed out. The Jordanians are are

[55:18] sensitive as you and Dan have been

[55:21] discussing to the idea that they are

[55:22] supporting the US and they're lending a

[55:24] great deal of support under the radar

[55:26] screen here. There are about 7,000 US

[55:29] forces, most of them special forces,

[55:31] operating out of an air base that I can

[55:33] see over there. We're not allowed to

[55:35] show it to you. Uh but those forks have

[55:37] been on the move.

[55:38] >> But just uh take a minute and I realize

[55:41] it's still first not yet first light.

[55:43] Take a minute and explain to people what

[55:44] the landscape is out there. It is just

[55:46] desert. Um about as far as the beyond

[55:49] where the eye can see both on the

[55:51] Jordanian and on the Iraqi side of the

[55:52] frontier,

[55:55] >> 367 miles flat all the way to Baghdad,

[55:59] as you well know, Peter. And yet in that

[56:02] territory there are a number of key

[56:04] targets that the US is very interested

[56:06] in both because they represent a threat

[56:08] to Israel and because they represent an

[56:10] opportunity to the US forces. There are

[56:12] a number of key air bases in there in

[56:14] particular that were the places where

[56:16] they launched Scud missile attacks at

[56:18] Israel in 1991. The US doesn't want to

[56:20] see that repeated. They also could be uh

[56:23] very important forward operating bases

[56:26] for the US uh if the push on Baghdad

[56:29] should take some time. Now the US,

[56:30] >> one of them in particular, H3 that you

[56:32] and U John McQuey have been discussing

[56:35] earlier today. Uh this H3 base uh could

[56:38] be a very important strategic asset for

[56:41] the US in the push toward Baghdad. Sort

[56:44] of the invisible front in this war.

[56:45] We're not able to see it.

[56:46] >> Well, we can see it on our on our aerial

[56:48] map here. It is a huge air base out in

[56:49] the middle of in in the middle of

[56:51] nowhere. It's an Iraqi base. It's been

[56:53] described to us as larger than Heathrow

[56:55] in London, but it is huge. And you can

[56:58] see from where it is what potential it

[57:00] has. It's inside Iraq. It gives the US

[57:03] an enormous capability first of all to

[57:06] land its own aircraft in the western

[57:08] part of Iraq, to land troops in the

[57:10] western part of Iraq, to become a real

[57:12] supply base in the western part of the

[57:14] country as well. And and a lot of people

[57:16] are a little surprised when we tell

[57:18] them, but the main highway, which is not

[57:21] that close to H3, but the main highway

[57:24] from Jordan uh to Baghdad on the Iraqi

[57:27] side is an absolutely gorgeous super

[57:29] highway that you can travel on at very

[57:32] high rates of speed. And it is at that

[57:35] axis of the two countries where all of

[57:38] the Iraqi oil, much of it uh much of it

[57:41] coming out illegally has come out to

[57:43] Jordan and other oil goes north towards

[57:46] the Syrian border which is just above

[57:48] Jordan on your map. But there you get

[57:50] some sense of the runways which are

[57:52] available to the US now to take in cargo

[57:55] aircraft um men and material uh without

[57:59] much interference. It was expected, I

[58:02] think, by everybody going into this

[58:03] campaign that it would not take the

[58:05] United States very long to command the

[58:07] skies whatsoever. And the fact that H3

[58:10] has been taken um earlier tonight will

[58:13] just simply reinforce their command of

[58:15] the skies in the western part of the

[58:17] country close by Jordan. I want to talk

[58:20] now on the telephone uh to David Fox who

[58:23] is a Reuters correspondent uh who is out

[58:26] there on the front lines between Iraq

[58:28] and Kuwait tonight. David, we've been

[58:29] reading some of your dispatches earlier

[58:31] and you, I think, were one of the first

[58:34] people to report that you saw explosions

[58:36] in Basra. Can you elaborate?

[58:39] >> Um, yes, not quite in Bazra, but

[58:42] certainly over Bazra. I mean, there's

[58:44] been a sort of constant wave of bombings

[58:46] and artillery aimed in that direction

[58:49] throughout the night. Um, dawn's broken

[58:51] here now, so it's more difficult to see

[58:54] the actual fireballs. Um but during the

[58:58] night until about 45 months ago when

[59:00] dawn broke it was very clear what was

[59:02] going on all the time. The sort of

[59:03] barrage moved from the east from Umal

[59:05] Kasa I don't know if you've been

[59:07] directing your viewers towards that

[59:08] >> and it's been going westwards towards

[59:11] Bazra and then there was a very intense

[59:13] period for the last couple of hours and

[59:14] it's still going on. I don't even know

[59:16] if you can hear us over the telephone.

[59:17] >> No, I can't. But do you know whether or

[59:19] not Umaser has fallen to either British

[59:21] or American forces?

[59:24] >> Don't know that from our position. No,

[59:25] we're we're pretty isolated here. We can

[59:27] only see what we can see rather than

[59:29] hear anything else.

[59:30] >> And can you I mean, are you are you with

[59:31] forces or are you independent at the

[59:33] moment?

[59:33] >> No, we're independent.

[59:36] >> So, can you tell us where you are?

[59:38] >> Um, I can tell you that I'm on the um on

[59:41] the border and um uh near the main

[59:44] artery that goes from Kuwait to Bazra

[59:47] about uh probably about um 32

[59:51] miles uh south of Bazra.

[59:53] >> Right. So, are you you're on the

[59:54] extension of Route 80 that goes all the

[59:56] way from Kuwait City up into Iraq

[59:58] itself?

[60:00] >> Exactly. We're off that route, but um

[60:02] but pretty close to it. Yeah.

[60:03] >> And have you seen an awful lot of

[60:04] traffic going north today?

[60:07] >> Um no. Uh not a great deal. Um I think a

[60:11] lot of the traffic was moved uh in the

[60:14] in the previous days. in the last two

[60:16] three days there hasn't been that much

[60:17] movement but there's been a lot of

[60:19] movement in front of us in the DMZ and

[60:22] on the Iraqi side of what um you know an

[60:25] educated guest would tell us are

[60:26] bulldozers and heavy military equipment

[60:29] clearing minefields things like that or

[60:31] clearing what they suspect might be

[60:33] minefield

[60:33] >> I appreciate it very much David it's

[60:35] nice to hear your voice David Fox of the

[60:36] Reuters News Agency on the border this

[60:38] is ABC News continuing coverage live

[60:40] coverage of the war with Iraq

[60:54] Well, that is Baghdad by dawn, 6:00 in

[60:58] the morning exactly in Baghdad.

[61:01] uh no air activity at the moment though

[61:03] we do believe that elements of the US

[61:06] ground forces are in fact in some cases

[61:09] racing towards the general area of

[61:12] Baghdad. If you just do minor

[61:14] calculations about the speed of

[61:16] operations uh on the Iraqi side of the

[61:19] border tonight some US forces are

[61:22] clearly traveling very quickly. We do

[61:25] not know what it means that there has

[61:27] not been a second level of attacks on

[61:30] even selected targets in Baghdad

[61:33] tonight. But that is what Baghdad looks

[61:35] like this evening. One of the many

[61:38] mosques, some of them small and

[61:41] neighborhoodlike as in this particular

[61:43] one and some of them built by Saddam

[61:45] Hussein uh throughout his reign.

[61:48] absolutely huge and in the process even

[61:51] now in the western part of the city is

[61:53] being built what he had intended to be

[61:55] the largest mosque in in the world. We

[61:58] can go back now on the phone to ABC's

[62:00] Ted CPP who we haven't talked to in

[62:02] several hours who is with the third

[62:04] infantry division. Good morning Ted.

[62:08] >> Good morning Peter. Well the ground

[62:10] invasion of Iraq has begun. Quite

[62:12] literally one minute ago the first tanks

[62:15] began moving across the burm. I'm

[62:17] watching them now. We are standing at

[62:19] the burm.