The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-03-04
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:02] Good evening. I'm Jim Lahren in
[0:04] Washington.
[0:05] >> And I'm Charlene Hunter Galt in New
[0:07] York. After the news summary, politics
[0:10] is our lead focus. We examine the
[0:12] results of many Tuesday. Next, we have a
[0:15] report on a promising cancer treatment
[0:17] that's in short supply. And finally,
[0:20] correspondent Jeffrey Kay looks at why
[0:22] some scientists are combing the sky for
[0:25] killer asteroids.
[0:27] Funding for the McNeel NewsHour has been
[0:29] provided by PepsiCo.
[0:42] Mexico.
[0:46] >> Part of helping the world live and
[0:47] communicate better is keeping it well
[0:49] informed. That's why funding for the
[0:51] NewsHour is also provided by AT&T
[0:55] and by the Corporation for Public
[0:57] Broadcasting and viewers like you.
[1:00] >> There were many declarations of victory
[1:02] after yesterday's primaries and
[1:04] caucuses. They came from Democrats. Paul
[1:07] Sisas who won a primary in Maryland,
[1:09] caucuses in Washington State and Utah.
[1:12] Bill Clinton who won the Georgia
[1:13] primary, Tom Harkin who won a caucus in
[1:16] Idaho, a straw poll in Minnesota, and
[1:18] Jerry Brown who won the Colorado
[1:20] primary. He spoke today in Las Vegas,
[1:23] Nevada.
[1:24] Every night the media paid attention to
[1:27] the other candidates. the local papers
[1:30] and television began to cover my
[1:32] campaign the last few days, but the
[1:34] national media uh just utterly focused
[1:36] on those people. And that gave them an
[1:38] enormous advantage that the people
[1:40] overcame. They saw through the barrage
[1:42] of propaganda and they they chose uh our
[1:46] cause, we the people. It's very
[1:47] impressive. Of the five leading
[1:50] Democratic candidates, only Bob Kerry
[1:52] came away with no first place finish. He
[1:55] cancelled all scheduled appearances and
[1:57] returned to Washington today. Staff
[1:59] members said he was reassessing his
[2:01] candidacy. He plans a news conference
[2:03] tomorrow morning. President Bush won all
[2:05] three of yesterday's Republican
[2:07] primaries, Maryland, Georgia, and
[2:09] Colorado. His challenger, Pat Buchanan,
[2:11] got at least 30% of the vote in each.
[2:14] Buchanan had this to say in Baton Rouge,
[2:16] Louisiana today.
[2:18] Yesterday we won a tremendous victory,
[2:22] my friends, over there in the peach
[2:24] state of Georgia. A tremendous victory.
[2:27] It came two weeks after New Hampshire.
[2:30] And what makes it so important
[2:33] is that New Hampshire, the Bush folks
[2:35] told us and they told the country,
[2:38] "Don't worry about it. Pat Buchanan
[2:40] snuck up on us. He had 10 weeks up
[2:43] there. They got a major recession or a
[2:45] depression up there. Voters were angry.
[2:48] We didn't get up there enough. We didn't
[2:50] use any of our clever attack ads. And
[2:53] that's how we got 37% of the vote.
[2:57] Well, yesterday, my friends, in Georgia,
[2:59] I didn't have 10 weeks to campaign. I
[3:01] had five days.
[3:03] Buchanan called for the president to
[3:05] drop out of the race. White House
[3:06] spokesman Marlon Fitzwwater responded by
[3:08] saying Buchanan has gone looney tunes on
[3:11] it. Mr. Bush campaigned in Florida today
[3:14] in anticipation of next week's primary
[3:16] there and 10 other states. He commented
[3:18] on yesterday's results as he left the
[3:20] White House this morning.
[3:23] >> We're doing well. We've won everything.
[3:25] We're going to keep on winning
[3:26] everything. Tough times out there. And I
[3:29] think people are beginning to understand
[3:30] that uh that um what counts is who wins
[3:34] these who wins these primaries. So I I
[3:37] feel good about it. And I'm not going to
[3:38] keep raising the high bar. I'm just
[3:40] going to go one at a time and win them
[3:42] all and win the election in the fall. Do
[3:44] >> you accept the votes again uh for
[3:46] Buchanan as votes against you?
[3:48] >> It seems to be that way. Yes, I think
[3:50] that's a good way to analyze it and uh
[3:53] but that'll turn around. Economy will
[3:55] turn around. We'll make some headway
[3:57] with Congress eventually. We'll keep
[3:58] trying and uh people will see that uh
[4:02] I'm the person to lead this country just
[4:04] now as I was in the past. We'll have
[4:06] full analysis of all of this right after
[4:08] the news summary. Charlene,
[4:10] >> in economic news, factory orders rose
[4:13] 4/10en of a percent in January. The
[4:16] increase was the third in four months,
[4:18] but well short of what economists had
[4:20] been expecting. The Commerce Department
[4:22] said much of the gain came from
[4:24] increased demand for industrial
[4:26] machinery, computers, and other big
[4:29] ticket items.
[4:30] >> Arab and Israeli negotiators concluded
[4:32] the latest round of peace talks in
[4:34] Washington today. They did so with no
[4:37] agreements. Israel offered a plan for
[4:39] limited Palestinian self-ruule which the
[4:42] Palestinians rejected. Israel rejected a
[4:44] Palestinian proposal for elections of
[4:46] the occupied territories because they
[4:48] said it amounted to statehood for the
[4:50] Palestinians. This afternoon,
[4:52] Palestinian spokeswoman Hanan Hassawi
[4:54] said her side would not wait for Israeli
[4:57] approval before holding elections. A
[5:00] court in Algeria today banned the
[5:02] country's Islamic fundamentalist party
[5:04] and ordered it dissolved. The decision
[5:06] came two months after the government
[5:08] canled parliamentary elections to
[5:10] prevent an almost certain fundamentalist
[5:12] victory. Nearly all the party's leaders
[5:14] and about 5,000 of its supporters have
[5:17] since been jailed.
[5:19] As many as 300 people have died in an
[5:22] explosion at a coal mine in Turkey.
[5:24] About 700 miners were underground when
[5:27] the blast occurred last night. 400
[5:30] escaped. The others were trapped
[5:32] underground. David Chedar of Independent
[5:35] Television News reports.
[5:37] >> Miners who managed to escape the blast
[5:39] said they ran through passages that were
[5:41] full of bodies. Today at the pit head,
[5:43] the rescue teams emerged carrying only
[5:45] the dead. There's little hope now that
[5:47] any of those missing underground could
[5:49] still be alive. Most of the victims
[5:51] appear to have been esphixxiated by the
[5:53] clouds of carbon monoxide and dust that
[5:55] bellowed through the mine shafts after
[5:57] the explosion.
[5:59] Rescue teams have been faced with fierce
[6:01] fires burning out of control
[6:03] underground. They've not been able to
[6:05] reach the deepest sections of the mine.
[6:09] The miners families crowded around the
[6:11] pit heads through the night and today
[6:13] keeping an increasingly hopeless vigil.
[6:16] Miners have protested in the past about
[6:18] inadequate safety measures and outdated
[6:20] equipment.
[6:22] Nearly 100 survivors were taken to the
[6:24] local hospitals, most of them suffering
[6:26] from severe burns. The disaster looks
[6:29] set to be the worst ever suffered by the
[6:31] mining industry in Turkey. The death
[6:34] toll could climb to more than 300.
[6:37] Russian officials today said they were
[6:39] tightening regulations on nuclear safety
[6:42] to prevent another Chernobyl disaster.
[6:44] The announcement came only hours after a
[6:47] fire forced the shutdown of a nuclear
[6:49] reactor in southern Russia. The
[6:51] officials said no radiation was
[6:53] released. Russian President Boris
[6:56] Yeltson today called for peace talks
[6:58] between Armenia and Azerbaijan. The two
[7:01] republics have been fighting a
[7:02] 4-year-old undeclared war over
[7:04] territory. Azerbaijani officials today
[7:07] said they had recovered the bodies of
[7:09] 120 people massacred in the disputed
[7:11] region. They accused former Soviet
[7:13] troops of helping Armenian militants
[7:16] carry out those killings. Armenian
[7:18] officials accused Azerbani forces of
[7:20] shooting down a helicopter. They said
[7:22] six people were killed, 32 injured in
[7:24] the Tuesday attack. The helicopter was
[7:27] reportedly evacuating civilians from the
[7:29] region. Cuba will not cooperate with the
[7:32] United Nations investigation of alleged
[7:35] human rights abuses in Cuba. The UN
[7:37] Human Rights Commission voted yesterday
[7:39] in Geneva to launch such an
[7:41] investigation. An official government
[7:43] statement in Havana today said that vote
[7:45] was the result of manipulations and
[7:47] blackmail by the United States and Cuba
[7:50] would not cooperate.
[7:52] Stage and film actress Sandy Dennis has
[7:54] died at the age of 54. She was perhaps
[7:57] best known for her Academy Award-winning
[8:00] performance as a young faculty wife in
[8:02] the 1966 movie Who's Afraid of Virginia
[8:05] Wolf? which also starred Richard Burton.
[8:08] Dennis died Monday at her home in
[8:10] Connecticut after a two and a halfyear
[8:12] battle with ovarian cancer.
[8:16] That's it for the news summary. Just
[8:17] ahead, win, place, and show in
[8:20] yesterday's political races. A tree that
[8:23] grows hope and a celestial alert.
[8:35] Campaign 92 is up first tonight. Before
[8:38] we get to some political analysis, a
[8:41] quick review of the winners and losers
[8:42] in the seven states up for grabs in
[8:45] yesterday's presidential primaries and
[8:47] caucuses. President Bush won all three
[8:50] Republican primaries despite a strong
[8:52] showing from challenger Patrick
[8:54] Buchanan. In Colorado, Bush received 67%
[8:58] to Buchanan's 30%. In Georgia, Bush won
[9:01] 64% to Buchanan's 36%. In Maryland, the
[9:05] president beat Buchanan 70 to 30%. On
[9:09] the Democratic side, Jerry Brown won his
[9:11] first primary in Colorado with 29%. Bill
[9:15] Clinton had 27%. Paul Sus 26%. Bob Kerry
[9:19] and Tom Harkin finished further back. In
[9:22] Georgia, Bill Clinton took home his
[9:24] first win with 57%.
[9:27] Sungas had 24% and the rest were far
[9:30] behind. Maryland gave Paul Sanus a clear
[9:33] victory with 41% to Clinton's 34%. Tom
[9:37] Harkin did well in some state caucuses,
[9:40] winning the largest percent of delegates
[9:42] at stake in Idaho. He also won a straw
[9:45] poll conducted at selected caucuses in
[9:48] Minnesota. Songas was the clear winner
[9:50] in Utah's caucuses. Results are still
[9:53] not final in the Washington state's
[9:55] caucuses, but according to the
[9:57] Associated Press, Paul Sangas appears to
[9:59] be leading there. Jim, now a sorting out
[10:02] of yesterday's results. Gergen and
[10:04] Shields are here. David Gergen is editor
[10:06] at large of US News and World Report.
[10:08] He's in Dallas tonight. Mark Shields is
[10:10] a syndicated columnist. He is in
[10:13] Washington with Democratic pollster
[10:14] Peter Hart, Republican campaign
[10:16] strategist Ed Rollins, and Eddie
[10:18] Williams, head of the Joint Center for
[10:20] Political and Economic Studies, a
[10:22] nonpartisan research organization which
[10:24] focuses on black policy issues.
[10:26] Gentlemen, let's begin with the big
[10:28] questions first. What did yesterday say
[10:30] about the political health of George
[10:32] Bush? Mark,
[10:33] >> I think it said about George Bush that
[10:35] it's time to recognize that George Bush
[10:37] is a man of his word. I mean, he said
[10:40] than David Frost that he would do what
[10:41] was ever necessary in order to win
[10:43] re-election and uh he has moved right
[10:45] faster than a military hunter in Latin
[10:47] America. Uh he's he's over there and it
[10:50] just shows his resiliency. I think uh he
[10:52] is he's somebody that I think is going
[10:56] to win his party's nomination, but has a
[10:58] very serious problem.
[10:59] >> What is that problem?
[11:00] >> The problem is that Pat Buchanan is
[11:02] winning uh it's more than simply a
[11:04] protest. Patrick Ken is winning those
[11:07] very votes in the Republic the
[11:08] Republican president that Ronald Reagan
[11:10] had in his back pocket. Democratic
[11:12] voters uh who vote in Republican
[11:14] primaries independents is winning those
[11:16] and splitting them with Bush and that's
[11:18] going to be a problem for George Bush in
[11:19] the fall.
[11:19] >> You agree Ed Rollins that the president
[11:21] has a serious problem period and a
[11:23] serious problem as as delineated by Mr.
[11:26] Shields?
[11:26] >> I don't think Pat Buchanan is his
[11:28] problem. I think his problem is is
[11:30] literally 25 to 30% of his own party
[11:32] today for economic reasons or whatever
[11:34] aren't voting for him and somehow he has
[11:36] to get those voters back. The coalition
[11:38] of the 80s probably is no longer there.
[11:40] The blueco collar Democrat would be much
[11:42] more difficult to get this time. But
[11:43] you've got to get your Republican base
[11:45] back. And equally as important when you
[11:46] look at the breakdown, young men are
[11:49] voting in disproportionate roles to for
[11:52] Buchanan and they may be more difficult
[11:54] to get back than than just the ordinary
[11:56] Republican voter. David in Dallas,
[11:59] explain to uh the non-political experts
[12:03] why a 7 to30 victory say is a defeat for
[12:07] the guy who got 70%.
[12:10] >> Well, it's a defeat for two reasons,
[12:12] Jim. I think uh one is that the sitting
[12:15] president shouldn't be faced with a loss
[12:17] of 30% on a consistent basis as the
[12:20] president now finds himself doing as he
[12:22] goes across these primaries. Secondly,
[12:24] it's also true, Jim, that I think we in
[12:26] the media and in particular the Bush
[12:28] campaign is letting Pat Buchanan define
[12:30] what victory is. Uh so that as long as
[12:32] Pat can uh can go out and claim that he
[12:35] wins when he gets only 30% of the votes
[12:37] and that's given a lot of attention and
[12:38] publicity, uh he can continue to do
[12:41] pretty well. But can I add one thing to
[12:42] what Ed Rollins just said
[12:44] >> because I think he was absolutely on
[12:45] point. I think that is the central
[12:47] problem for the presidency. But I would
[12:48] be interested in knowing whether Ed and
[12:50] others there think there is a second
[12:52] problem developing for him. And that is
[12:55] as he moves to try to recapture some of
[12:57] that Republican base, whether he appears
[13:00] to be pandering or whether he appears to
[13:01] be weak. Uh the the the statement in the
[13:05] last 48 hours that he made a mistake on
[13:08] the tax issue
[13:11] uh did not seem to be made for policy
[13:12] reasons. didn't seem to be made it
[13:14] entirely for political reasons in order
[13:16] to throw a bone to the right. And I
[13:17] think probably while while the right may
[13:19] have welcomed it, I would imagine there
[13:20] were a lot of other people in this
[13:21] country who would think could grief what
[13:23] does he believe in? Where is his core
[13:25] belief? Did he not think it was a good
[13:26] idea? If he didn't think it was a good
[13:27] idea, why did he do it? If he didn't if
[13:28] he thought it was a mistake, why does he
[13:30] only admit it now under the heat of a
[13:31] Buchanan attack?
[13:32] >> Eddie Williams, how would you analyze
[13:34] the president's problem based on the
[13:36] results of yesterday? Jim, I don't think
[13:38] Pat Buchanan can be can can deal a
[13:40] mortal blow to President Push Bush. But
[13:42] I think what he is doing is wearing away
[13:44] some of his teflon if any is there or
[13:46] wearing away some of his armor that will
[13:48] indeed make him more vulnerable in the
[13:50] general election. Whether it is the
[13:52] perception of him pandering or whether
[13:54] it is
[13:54] >> Do you agree there may be some truth in
[13:56] what David has?
[13:57] >> I think so. I think so. Absolutely.
[13:59] >> Peter Hart,
[14:00] >> I'll pick up where David is and that is
[14:02] he lacks consistency. Every day there's
[14:04] a new plan coming from President Bush.
[14:07] There's no sense of a vision. There's no
[14:09] sense of his core beliefs. And in the
[14:12] end, that's what the voters are going to
[14:14] judge on. And they look and you can see
[14:15] the piece that you had at the top of the
[14:17] hour. This is a person that seems to be
[14:20] floundering around rather than a person
[14:22] that's in control of his destiny. The
[14:24] other point that Ed Rollins made, and I
[14:25] think it's an important one, that is
[14:27] that it was the female vote that saved
[14:30] uh the president, but if you look at all
[14:32] the polls in the fall, he has big
[14:34] trouble with the women's vote. So he now
[14:37] has trouble with younger male vote in
[14:39] the Republican primary and we know in
[14:41] the general election with female vote
[14:43] there's not going to be a lot left which
[14:45] means he's going to have to go tactical
[14:47] in terms of how he's going to run the
[14:49] race from here on out.
[14:50] >> You ed Eddie Williams you would not
[14:54] write him off at this point would you
[14:55] not president Bush
[14:57] >> no way no way he's going to be on the
[14:59] Republican ticket uh in terms of the
[15:01] general election I think we have to make
[15:02] a lot of assumptions about who he will
[15:04] face. He I think he will be w w w w w w
[15:06] w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w
[15:06] w w w w w w w w w w w w w w wounded and
[15:07] vulnerable. The question is whether the
[15:09] Democratic party will have a candidate
[15:11] that can topple him.
[15:13] >> Ed Rollins, what about Pat Buchanan?
[15:15] What does he what does he where does he
[15:17] sit now? I mean, he's nobody gives him a
[15:19] chance of getting the nomination. So,
[15:21] what is his mission from this point on?
[15:23] Well, I think one thing that's very
[15:25] important for the White House, for the
[15:27] for the Bush campaign, and for everyone
[15:28] else to understand is Pat Buchanan is
[15:30] not going to play by anybody's rules. Uh
[15:31] he's not been a partisan Republican.
[15:33] He's been a partisan conservative who
[15:35] happens to have worked for some
[15:36] Republicans. And to think that he's
[15:38] going to drop out of this race in two or
[15:39] three weeks because he's not getting a
[15:40] sufficient number of delegates is
[15:42] absurd. This is a guy who's who's has
[15:44] very deep beliefs and and they may be
[15:46] out of tune with an awful lot of
[15:47] Americans, but he's running for 1996. He
[15:50] I think in his heart and soul he doesn't
[15:52] care if George Bush loses in 1992. And
[15:54] that's the great danger. He is in a
[15:56] guerilla warfare type of a campaign and
[15:59] he's going to stay in this race. He's
[16:00] going to have supporters who are going
[16:01] to stay with him and obviously he's not
[16:03] going to basically go play normal
[16:05] political games at the convention.
[16:07] >> Mark Shields um Charles Crowutamemer
[16:10] said it in very graphic terms in a
[16:12] column in the Washington Post on Sunday.
[16:13] He said Pat Buchanan is a fascist. That
[16:16] was the word that he used. Now can that
[16:19] can he stay in a campaign with that kind
[16:21] of snowball anti-buchanan rhetoric uh
[16:25] right after him? the Buchanan anti the
[16:28] anti Buchanan rhetoric has been present
[16:29] since the beginning of this candidacy. I
[16:31] don't think that Charles Croheim his
[16:33] column uh is going to get Pat Buchanan
[16:35] out of the race. I think or is going to
[16:37] affect Pat Buchanan's
[16:38] >> you agree with that
[16:45] >> about in his state of the union in 1992
[16:47] and nobody has any idea what the second
[16:49] Bush term is going to be about.
[16:51] >> David Gurgen, what what should the
[16:53] president do about Buchanan? Should he
[16:55] take him on head on? Should he go after
[16:57] some of these uh these racial and other
[17:00] issues? Or should he be president and uh
[17:03] and do what Mark says? Tech talk about
[17:05] what he's going to do if he's elect
[17:06] reelected. The first and the foremost
[17:09] thing he must do is is to be president.
[17:11] He has to assert his authority over the
[17:14] economy and take credit for what could
[17:17] be a recovery that's that's budding now.
[17:20] that would help him politically and I
[17:21] think that frankly it would help to
[17:22] restore some of his authority as
[17:24] president. I do think it would be
[17:26] helpful to have someone
[17:28] of some importance within the party to
[17:31] present a serious address about the the
[17:34] nature of the Buchanan presidency
[17:36] candidacy and and to call him on the
[17:39] degree to which he is now flirting with
[17:41] racism uh that he's now flirting with
[17:44] this extremism which I do believe is the
[17:48] dark side of conservatism that Bill Penn
[17:50] Bennett for example has been arguing
[17:52] very very persuasively. people like
[17:54] Bennett need to make some serious
[17:56] addresses. I think that would help a
[17:57] lot. Thirdly, Jim, I would argue that uh
[18:00] that men like Ronald Reagan and perhaps
[18:02] Barry Goldwater and Nixon uh need to be
[18:04] assembled at some fairly early point to
[18:06] say, "Look, Pat, you're getting the
[18:08] 30%." But if you want to be serious as a
[18:11] in this party, if you want to join the
[18:14] party, in fact, to to come back to Ed
[18:16] Rollins's point, if you want to be a
[18:17] future leader, you cannot spoil this
[18:20] one. You should get out if you can't win
[18:22] primaries on Super Tuesday.
[18:24] >> Ed Rollins, you don't think that's gonna
[18:25] happen?
[18:26] >> Well, first I would argue that I don't
[18:27] think Pat's getting 30%. I mean, I would
[18:29] assume there's 30% voting against the
[18:31] president. He may be adding to that in
[18:33] some places and subtracting from it in
[18:35] other places. There there's there's a
[18:36] certain segment of the Republican party
[18:38] and some independents and some Democrats
[18:40] who have crossed over who who want to
[18:41] send the president a message because
[18:42] they're unhappy with the economy. I
[18:44] think it's very very important that this
[18:46] president be presidential. Just as David
[18:48] said, he he's a guy who's very
[18:49] comfortable as president and he's very
[18:51] uncomfortable as a candidate. He's not
[18:53] been a very good candidate historically.
[18:55] And I think that he basically needs to
[18:56] go up to Camp David, take a weekend,
[18:58] figure out why he wants a second term,
[19:01] articulate that in a piece of paper, and
[19:03] come out and basically go out and tell
[19:04] the American public, "This is what I'm
[19:06] going to do. Measure me five years from
[19:07] now by what I've laid out here and start
[19:09] running in the fall. Let the candidates
[19:11] who are going to have to fight Buchanan
[19:13] in in 96, the Jack Kemps, the Bill
[19:15] Bennett, the Pete Deonts, go take him on
[19:18] now, just as David said, and the
[19:19] president ought to get above the fray
[19:21] and start talking to voters in the fall.
[19:23] >> Peter Hart, is it is have I missed it or
[19:25] have uh have the Republicans, the other
[19:28] Republican people that Ed Rollins has
[19:31] talked about, have they really taken on
[19:32] Pat Buchanan or have I missed it?
[19:34] >> Uh I guess uh I guess the problem is
[19:37] that uh George Bush just hasn't gotten
[19:39] the message. Every time he comes out of
[19:41] the gates at the White House and he
[19:43] says, "I've gotten the message," he's
[19:44] telling you he hasn't gotten the
[19:46] message. And I see David Gurgen smiling
[19:48] there in Dallas. And that's the
[19:50] difficulty. He He has a tin ear. He just
[19:54] doesn't hear what the public is saying.
[19:56] And the difficulty is they want somebody
[19:58] who's going to level with them. And
[20:00] there you want they want somebody that's
[20:02] going to give them a direction. He's
[20:04] gives them neither. I mean, Ed Rollins
[20:05] suggestion is the greatest. I doubt that
[20:08] the president can do that. And I doubt
[20:09] that he would be able to follow it for a
[20:11] month. And remember, this was the State
[20:14] of the Union that was going to define
[20:15] the next five years. Didn't define the
[20:18] next week, let alone the next month. So,
[20:20] I'm not sure how he's going to go up to
[20:22] Camp David and make that decision.
[20:24] >> All right, let's let's talk about the
[20:25] Democrats and we'll come back to some
[20:26] more general things. Uh Mark, clearly
[20:28] it's uh it's Clinton and Sus in a
[20:31] two-man race.
[20:32] >> It is a two-way race, although Jerry
[20:34] Brown is is not going to go away. I
[20:36] mean, Jerry Brown is very much in it. I
[20:38] think uh Bob Kerry is going to fold the
[20:40] tent tomorrow and Tom Harkens people are
[20:43] still talking in terms of geographical
[20:46] assessment that they've got. They've won
[20:47] more big states, Minnesota, Iowa, Idaho.
[20:51] It's a it's an interesting angle.
[20:53] >> Who was helped the most yesterday with
[20:56] their victories by their victories,
[20:58] Clinton or Susan?
[20:59] >> I think the case could be made that both
[21:00] were helped.
[21:02] Strongest had to win outside of New
[21:03] England. He did. Uh he did do that by
[21:06] winning in Maryland. Uh Clinton had to
[21:08] demonstrate support in his base. He did
[21:10] do that and and Bill Clinton assembled
[21:13] uh the outline I think the profile of of
[21:15] their two respective electorates is is
[21:18] interesting. And Bill Clinton assembled
[21:20] for the first time really since 1976
[21:22] a a biracial uh coalition uh of of
[21:26] workingclass voters both black and
[21:28] white. uh and Paul Sonus by contrast is
[21:33] if you're not an admirer of his you'd
[21:35] say he's got the Bri and Shabli
[21:37] Democrats uh whereas uh S whereas
[21:40] Clinton probably has the Musketel and
[21:42] six-pack uh or the the Belvita and
[21:44] six-pack Democrats and uh Sus is getting
[21:48] high income high education postgraduate
[21:52] uh reach to the suburbs reach to
[21:54] independents that Democrats haven't
[21:56] demonstrated in the past that they may
[21:58] need in November But it doesn't help him
[22:00] a lot in uh in in primaries.
[22:03] >> I I think that's well is the more
[22:05] suburban the electorate. I mean Clinton
[22:06] here's Clinton the road scholar and he's
[22:09] he's carrying high school graduates I
[22:10] think in Georgia yesterday by 4 to1 mind
[22:12] you.
[22:13] >> Eddie Williams how do you read the
[22:14] breakdown of yesterday in terms of who
[22:16] got help or or Clinton?
[22:19] >> Well I agree I think they both were
[22:20] helped. I think uh it's interesting to
[22:23] see how that help came in terms of what
[22:25] are the implications for uh for the next
[22:27] two weeks where we might get some
[22:29] decisive primaries going through Super
[22:31] Tuesday and then the week after that
[22:32] hitting Illinois and Michigan.
[22:34] >> Explain it. What do you mean? Well, in
[22:35] terms of who voted for whom, I think,
[22:37] for example, at the uh uh that over the
[22:39] next two weeks, the black vote is going
[22:41] to have some significant or centrifugal
[22:43] force uh on the primaries, particularly
[22:45] next week in five states, Florida,
[22:47] Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, and
[22:49] Texas, where the black vote is somewhere
[22:51] between 12 and 30% in each case, and
[22:54] where with a good turnout and if if
[22:56] things go the way they have been going,
[22:57] if Clinton pulling 30% uh 70% of the
[23:00] black vote
[23:01] >> of the black vote in Georgia and 49% in
[23:03] Maryland, then I think that would help
[23:04] his case considerably. But it's
[23:06] significant to note that um that Sonis
[23:09] and Maryland got some 32% of the black
[23:11] vote. And I think that is both good for
[23:12] Sus and good for the Democratic party
[23:14] and in a sense good for Clinton
[23:17] >> because I think it is useful for Clinton
[23:18] not to be perceived as the black
[23:20] candidate or not to be perceived as the
[23:22] candidate of poor people. He also drew
[23:24] some uh Clinton I think also drew some
[23:26] suburbanites and some upper income
[23:29] people in uh in in Maryland whereas he
[23:31] >> uh he didn't do as well in Georgia.
[23:33] >> Yeah. David, what David Geren in Dallas,
[23:36] what's your overall reading of these
[23:37] results of yesterday in terms of the of
[23:40] the the Democrats and uh and where what
[23:42] what how it sets up the race from here
[23:44] on using Eddie Williams scenario. I
[23:47] think both Eddie Williams and Mark
[23:49] Wright their analysis was excellent. The
[23:52] uh Bill Clinton has gained an enormous
[23:54] springboard for this Saturday in in
[23:56] South Carolina. He's going to win that I
[23:58] think very handsomely. He's clearly
[23:59] going to sweep most of the southern
[24:01] states on Super Tuesday this coming
[24:03] Tuesday. Uh there is a race that's in
[24:05] the making in Florida between Clinton
[24:07] and Sus. Sus obviously helped himself uh
[24:10] by by winning three states outside his
[24:12] region. But I would say that for both
[24:14] men, there's some fragility here. I
[24:15] think we have to note Sus was ahead in
[24:17] in Colorado heading heading down the
[24:20] home stretch and then lost it there. He
[24:21] let it slip away from him. on this
[24:23] nuclear power issue that uh that that
[24:25] Clinton went after him on and even in
[24:27] Georgia, one of the striking things
[24:29] about Georgia, despite this huge Clinton
[24:31] win, it was a very substantial and
[24:32] impressive win. Um but it's notable that
[24:35] uh the turnout was pretty low in
[24:37] Georgia, Jim. It was a disappointing
[24:40] disappointing turnout. For the first
[24:41] time in history, I believe there were
[24:43] more people who voted in the Republican
[24:45] primary in Georgia that were voted in
[24:47] the Democratic primary. George Bush for
[24:49] all the problems we've talked about
[24:50] gained 80,000 more votes than he did uh
[24:53] the last time around. So I I was talking
[24:55] to Bert Lance earlier today. He said you
[24:56] got to you know in terms of the fall in
[24:58] terms of November while Clinton may look
[25:00] very strong against other Democrats
[25:01] right now George Bush remains very
[25:03] strong in the South. What about that
[25:05] word fragility Peter Hart that that
[25:07] David just used in referring to both Sis
[25:10] and uh and Clinton at this point.
[25:12] >> Well I think that there is some
[25:13] fragility. I would I would say that
[25:16] there are a lot of people looking and
[25:17] saying that yes, Bill Clinton took a
[25:19] took a punch, but they want to know if
[25:21] there's any internal damage and they
[25:23] aren't sure about that. Uh and in terms
[25:26] of Paul Sonis, he has a style and a
[25:29] manner which says, "Look, I'm leveling
[25:31] with you. I'm telling you what you have
[25:33] to do." And I think that works for him.
[25:35] But I think what David mentioned, some
[25:36] of the specifics are going to be
[25:38] examined over the course of the next
[25:40] weeks. The one thing I want to say is
[25:42] they're talking about this race on the
[25:44] Democratic side as being a muddle. I see
[25:46] it as just the opposite. I see it as a
[25:48] drama. I mean, it is a marvelous race
[25:51] and the voters are sorting out a lot of
[25:53] big issues and important ideas. And my
[25:56] sense is by the time that we get through
[25:58] the industrial Midwest states and then
[26:01] on into California, the Democrats are
[26:03] going to have come a long way towards
[26:05] putting themselves in a position to be
[26:07] competitive in the fall. And it's a lot
[26:09] different than the races that they've
[26:10] run in 1988 and 1984.
[26:13] >> Well, I keep telling people that too.
[26:15] This is one of the most in both the
[26:16] Republican and the Democratic race is
[26:18] the most interesting we've had in a long
[26:19] time. You agree, Warren?
[26:21] >> I Jim, if you said that. I was going to
[26:23] disagree with Peter, but I won't
[26:24] disagree with you. I Peter's kind of the
[26:26] Clyde Barnes of American politics. I'll
[26:28] tell you I'll tell you who doesn't think
[26:30] it's a great drama unfolding are office
[26:33] holders on both sides. I mean, who
[26:35] there's an anxiety and a nervousness in
[26:37] the ranks. I was up on Capitol Hill
[26:38] today talking to Democrats who are
[26:42] really concerned on both sides. I mean
[26:44] that that question of Sonis uh is he
[26:48] going to be believable as a
[26:49] commander-in-chief. Uh is he so far out
[26:51] of sync with the rest of the Democratic
[26:53] party and what it stood for? Bill
[26:55] Clinton those questions. He's taken hits
[26:57] below the surface uh in a in a nautical
[26:59] metaphor. Has there been great damage
[27:02] done? Is there water taking on this this
[27:05] vessel? Ed Rollins, from a Republican
[27:07] point of view, I know this is a very
[27:09] difficult question, but that's the
[27:11] reason I'm going to ask it. Uh, which
[27:12] one of these candidates, these
[27:14] Democrats, Sus or or Clinton, looks more
[27:17] appetizing as somebody to run against?
[27:19] Well, I I'd be I'd be more than willing
[27:20] to run against either one of them, being
[27:22] perfectly honest. Uh, when 52% of the
[27:24] American public and the New York Times
[27:25] poll yesterday, Democrats say that they
[27:27] would like someone else to be in the
[27:28] field, that obviously tells you there's
[27:30] not great enthusiasm yet. Uh and my
[27:32] personal feeling is that both of these
[27:34] men are really untested. There's a whole
[27:36] lot coming at coming coming at them
[27:37] still. Uh there's certain some serious
[27:39] questions about both. Uh Mr. Sus
[27:41] obviously it's not just the health
[27:42] issue. It's it's an issue really what
[27:44] does he stand for and and and and does
[27:46] he have the momentum in the organization
[27:48] that will carry him beyond yesterday.
[27:50] Obviously there's serious questions
[27:52] about about Clinton and and whether
[27:53] he'll be able to make the race without
[27:55] another another allegation coming
[27:56] forward that that cuts into his
[27:58] credibility. I think if the American
[27:59] public yesterday h had their choice, the
[28:01] only one they would have left on the
[28:02] ballot would have been the president
[28:03] with a question mark, small question
[28:05] mark after his name, that have flushed
[28:06] the rest and started all over again. Uh,
[28:08] and I think I think the critical thing
[28:10] that we have to look at, this is going
[28:11] to come down an election in which voters
[28:13] are going to be one of three things.
[28:14] They're either going to be apathetic and
[28:15] not vote, which can be dangerous for for
[28:17] everyone. They can be angry and turn out
[28:19] in record numbers and and vote a whole
[28:21] lot of people out of office, including
[28:23] the incumbent in the White House, or it
[28:25] can be an election of hope. If it's an
[28:26] election of hope in which uh the
[28:28] Democrats or the president offer a
[28:30] message for the future, then it can be a
[28:32] very positive election and one that
[28:33] George Bush can win. Based on what's
[28:35] happened thus far, Ed, not just
[28:37] yesterday, but everything that's
[28:38] happened thus far, do you read more
[28:40] anger or more hope into the result?
[28:41] >> I I I I find total despair. Uh I think
[28:44] voters out there today desperately are
[28:46] looking for leadership and they don't
[28:48] see it in this in this in this field.
[28:50] Eddie Williams, I think they're looking
[28:52] for someone with some vision and they
[28:53] don't see it in this field. I agree with
[28:55] you that this is an interesting race,
[28:56] but not always for the for the right
[28:58] reasons. It's interesting because every
[29:00] >> be interesting to cover.
[29:01] >> Every every c every candidate in there
[29:03] is wounded in some particular way. I
[29:05] think it is also interesting and should
[29:06] spur some national debate over what what
[29:09] should be the criteria for people
[29:10] deciding whether to get in the race or
[29:12] not. A lot of people are thinking the
[29:14] best candidates, best potential
[29:15] candidates are on the sidelines. Isn't
[29:17] that an interesting thing, David Gurgen,
[29:19] that what Eddie Williams just said that
[29:20] all of these candidates are wounded in
[29:22] some way?
[29:24] >> It's well, it's absolutely true and it
[29:26] and it raises questions, of course, not
[29:28] only about the quality of the
[29:29] candidates, but again, about the
[29:30] process. Uh we have a process in which
[29:32] the the parties uh which are supposed to
[29:35] be nominating candidates have precious
[29:37] little uh responsibility for for
[29:39] essentially essentially filtering
[29:41] through and finding the best people to
[29:43] run. It was a Walter Montdale, of
[29:45] course, who's been a veteran of all of
[29:46] this and has been a part has been
[29:48] involved in some of the reforms, wrote a
[29:50] piece last week uh complaining that the
[29:52] parties really aren't doing the job of
[29:54] selecting the candidates that they
[29:56] should be doing. I hear more and more
[29:57] talk, Jim, about from folks who say
[29:59] they'd like to go back to the smoke fil
[30:01] rooms.
[30:02] >> Yeah. But Peter Hart, somebody could
[30:04] say, "Hey, wait a minute. All human
[30:06] beings are wounded in some way, and
[30:08] there's no such thing as a perfect
[30:09] candidate." And uh
[30:12] >> they are uh but the answer is uh this
[30:15] field and I think uh Ed Rollins is right
[30:18] and that is that people are are
[30:20] despairing. They want help. If they
[30:23] could say one thing to the candidates it
[30:25] would be listen to us level with us. I
[30:27] did uh my partner did a focus group
[30:30] which put uh a series of people around a
[30:33] table and simply said to them, let us
[30:36] suppose that the president of the United
[30:37] States and your two United States
[30:39] senators are behind this one-way mirror.
[30:41] What would you do? And at that stage of
[30:44] the game, one woman, very prim woman in
[30:46] her 50s, turned and gave the bird to the
[30:51] window as a way of saying this is how I
[30:53] feel. That's how an how much anger and
[30:55] how much frustration But that's you see
[30:57] it in the Democratic race as well as the
[30:59] Republican race.
[31:00] >> Uh oh. I think it's on on both sides and
[31:02] I mean uh that's one of the things Pat
[31:04] Buchanan's tapping into and obviously
[31:07] one of the things it's the message of
[31:10] change that all Democrats are talking
[31:12] about.
[31:12] >> Yeah.
[31:12] >> Gentlemen, thank you very much for being
[31:14] with us.
[31:16] >> Still ahead, a promising cancer
[31:18] treatment in short supply and killer
[31:21] asteroids.
[31:32] As we noted earlier, the actress Sandy
[31:35] Dennis died Monday after a long battle
[31:37] with ovarian cancer. Our next report is
[31:40] about promising efforts to treat cancers
[31:42] of the ovary, breast, and lung with a
[31:45] drug called Taxol. It's extracted from
[31:48] the Pacific U tree and has shown
[31:50] impressive results in clinical trials.
[31:52] The trouble is the trees that produce
[31:54] taxall are in very short supply in the
[31:56] Pacific Northwest. Correspondent Lee
[31:59] Hawkberg of Oregon Public Broadcasting
[32:01] reports from Portland.
[32:04] >> 49year-old Marcia Weedman is about to
[32:06] receive a remarkable new cancer drug.
[32:09] >> You ready?
[32:10] >> I'm ready to get stuck.
[32:14] >> No, I should be careful or I'll have to
[32:16] swear.
[32:19] >> Oh, damn.
[32:23] There. It's okay. Now,
[32:24] >> the pain from the needle is a small
[32:26] price to pay for a dose of the scarce
[32:28] experimental drug called Taxol. Last
[32:31] year, ovarian cancer killed 13,000
[32:35] American women. Weedman and her doctor
[32:37] were sure she'd be one more.
[32:39] >> I was going to die.
[32:42] I mean, I was just plain going to wait
[32:43] now and die because there wasn't
[32:46] anything else that we had for me. The
[32:48] biggest thing that went through my mind
[32:50] was now I'm going to get skinny
[32:54] and yellow
[32:56] and I'm going to be ugly and sick.
[32:59] >> But Weedman got into a tax trial at the
[33:02] University of Washington. Only 3 months
[33:04] later, the tumors that had spread to her
[33:07] pelvis have shrunk dramatically.
[33:09] >> One of my tumors is gone.
[33:12] I had one up here under my rib cage.
[33:15] They can't feel that anymore. Oh, it's
[33:17] like it's a miracle. It's wonderful. I
[33:20] work full-time
[33:23] and my staff is glad to have me around.
[33:26] That's kind of a miracle, too.
[33:31] Other miracle stories are coming from
[33:33] the 1,700 patients being tested with
[33:35] Taxol nationwide. In ovarian cancer
[33:38] patients, 30% of those who' failed three
[33:41] other types of chemotherapy are showing
[33:43] significant tumor reduction on TAL. It's
[33:46] also being tested now on breast and lung
[33:48] cancers. University of Washington
[33:50] oncologist Joanna Kaine.
[33:53] >> The majority of people getting it are
[33:56] feeling better and doing better on a
[33:58] daily basis without question.
[34:02] >> Potentially this could be one of the
[34:03] most exciting new drugs that we have
[34:05] been privileged to evaluate over the
[34:07] past decade. The Bristol Meyers Squib
[34:10] Company says it will begin distributing
[34:12] Taxol for treatment of ovarian cancer
[34:14] next year.
[34:19] That's the good news. The bad news is
[34:22] taxol could be extremely difficult to
[34:24] get over the next few years. It comes
[34:26] from this tree, the Pacific U, that
[34:29] grows predominantly on federal forests
[34:31] in the Pacific Northwest. For decades,
[34:34] loggers have clearcut the commercially
[34:36] valuable Douglas furs of those forests,
[34:38] burning and wasting most of the U in the
[34:41] process. Even after its cancer fighting
[34:43] ability was discovered in the 1960s,
[34:46] loggers continued to burn you as
[34:48] garbage.
[34:50] How many U's are left is unclear.
[34:53] Loggers insist Northwest forests are
[34:55] still rich with U. There is Uwood
[34:58] everywhere. It's there. It's everywhere.
[35:01] and uh I don't think we're ever going to
[35:03] run out of it.
[35:04] >> But government estimates are much less
[35:06] optimistic, saying there won't be enough
[35:08] to provide taxall for the nation's
[35:11] 21,000 new ovarian cancer patients every
[35:14] year.
[35:17] In a crash program to generate taxall,
[35:20] collectors have peeled 800,000 lbs of U
[35:23] bark, believed to be the most potent
[35:25] part of the tree. The bark goes to a
[35:27] facility in western Oregon where it's
[35:29] broken up and reduced to a sawdust type
[35:31] material. Then taxol is extracted. The
[35:35] National Cancer Institute says enough
[35:37] has been gathered to treat about 12,000
[35:40] patients.
[35:40] >> None of the bark's been taken off of
[35:42] this. Even
[35:43] >> critics like Oregon environmentalist
[35:45] Wendell Wood say the life-saving Ubark
[35:47] is still being wasted despite the
[35:49] increased awareness of its worth. As one
[35:52] agency of government, the Cancer
[35:53] Institute, races to gather it. Loggers
[35:56] working on nearby federal land continue
[35:59] to mow it down. This one I'm picking up
[36:01] right here. I mean, this is when this is
[36:03] dried, we have at least a pound of bark.
[36:05] With this log, look at these snags.
[36:07] These the broken off here. There's
[36:09] another big tree down below. It's
[36:10] covered with bark. None of that has been
[36:12] collected right here in just a spot.
[36:14] There's probably enough bark for one
[36:16] cancer patient. Probably more than
[36:18] enough for one cancer patient. In the
[36:20] late afternoon light in Oregon's Umpqua
[36:23] National Forest, Wood came upon the
[36:25] charred remains of use recently burned
[36:27] in government logging operations. Right
[36:30] in front of us there is a big several
[36:32] hundred-year-old utree and yet it was
[36:34] burned and destroyed. The Forest Service
[36:36] says they aren't burning this. Even when
[36:39] we told them not to burn it, they still
[36:41] burned it.
[36:42] >> We admit that uh that we've had some I
[36:45] call them minor mistakes. I don't think
[36:47] there uh we may have uh we burnt some
[36:51] units that uh that we felt had uh or we
[36:56] had heard had U in them. We went back
[36:57] and looked at them and it was it really
[36:59] was there was some you there but it you
[37:01] know it's uh with a few stems and that's
[37:04] about it.
[37:05] >> Umpqua National Forest Supervisor Lee
[37:07] Kun says the Forest Service isn't
[37:09] wasting U trees. You cannot go out and
[37:13] find one tree or one unit and say, "My
[37:16] god, look at the waste." My gut feeling
[37:19] is I don't think we're endangering the
[37:21] species at all. Well, I just am not
[37:24] willing to say that we're going to put
[37:27] the fate of cancer patients uh into some
[37:31] gut feeling on the part of somebody at
[37:34] one of these natural resources agencies.
[37:37] At the request of Oregon Congressman Ron
[37:39] Weiden, the General Accounting Office is
[37:42] investigating federal management of the
[37:44] U.
[37:44] >> My staff went out last summer and they
[37:48] found waste virtually everywhere they
[37:50] looked last summer. The supply of Taxol
[37:53] may also be limited by a controversial
[37:56] agreement the government reached to
[37:57] produce the drug. It gave the Bristol
[38:00] Meyer Squib Pharmaceutical Company the
[38:02] exclusive right to produce taxall in the
[38:04] United States. The idea was to maximize
[38:07] production by marshalling the resources
[38:09] of the nation's second largest
[38:11] pharmaceutical company. But critics say
[38:14] lack of competition has caused
[38:15] situations like this where collectors
[38:18] peeled only the easyto-reach bark,
[38:20] leaving the rest to rot. The president
[38:23] of the company Bristol Meyers hires to
[38:25] collect bark says he's trying to prevent
[38:27] inefficiencies that could drive the
[38:29] price of taxol out of reach of most
[38:32] patients. We can't make people uh do a
[38:35] good job apart from just saying if you
[38:37] don't you're not working with us
[38:38] anymore.
[38:39] >> Bristol Meyers says the drug will be
[38:41] expensive no matter what.
[38:43] >> We will continue to be reasonable and uh
[38:47] helpful to the oncology community. Uh
[38:50] however, we will also continue to try to
[38:52] get a return on our huge investment that
[38:54] we've made in this product. Taxol will
[38:56] probably cost more than any other uh
[39:00] oncology product that's ever been
[39:02] developed.
[39:03] >> Those of us with breast cancer or might
[39:05] get breast cancer in the future need
[39:09] whatever we can to fight it. It's
[39:14] vicious.
[39:15] >> For the thousands of Americans fighting
[39:17] cancer, the knowledge that utes are
[39:19] being wasted is tormenting. There is
[39:22] something out there that's available in
[39:26] limited supply, but it's available.
[39:29] It's being wasted. Why can't I have it?
[39:33] I have two kids.
[39:35] One who's just turned 16, this one who's
[39:39] seven. I want to see them grown up. I
[39:42] hate mysteries, but I don't find out the
[39:44] end to. And this is a mystery. What are
[39:47] they going to become? Ro Badrog's
[39:50] doctors consider her