The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-08-03

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:06] Good evening. I'm Robert MacNeil in New

[0:08] York. And I'm Jim Lehrer in Washington.

[0:10] After our summary of the news this

[0:12] Monday, four conservatives debate the

[0:14] growing Bush must go movement. Jeffrey

[0:17] Kaye updates riot aftermath in Los

[0:20] Angeles, and Charles Krause reports on

[0:22] the failed Soviet nuclear program.

[0:26] Funding for the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

[0:28] has been provided by PepsiCo.

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[0:48] informed. That's why funding for the

[0:50] NewsHour is also provided by AT&T.

[0:54] And by the Corporation for Public

[0:55] Broadcasting.

[0:57] And viewers like you.

[0:59] There was fallout today from yesterday's

[1:01] press release issued by the deputy

[1:03] manager of the Bush-Quayle campaign.

[1:06] Mary Matalin wrote it in the form of a

[1:08] question-and-answer game. She titled it

[1:10] "Sniveling Hypocritical Democrats, Stand

[1:12] Up and Be Counted. On Second Thought,

[1:15] Shut Up and Sit Down."

[1:17] One question asked, "Which campaign had

[1:18] to spend thousands of taxpayer dollars

[1:21] on private investigators to fend off

[1:23] bimbo eruptions?" The answer she gave

[1:26] was the Clinton campaign.

[1:28] Today, Matalin issued a statement in

[1:29] which she said, "It would appear to some

[1:31] that I might have violated, at least in

[1:33] spirit, the president's dictate to the

[1:35] campaign that we avoid references to

[1:38] Governor Clinton's personal life. I

[1:40] regret if the tone of my statement left

[1:42] the wrong impression in that regard."

[1:44] Clinton was asked about the flap at a

[1:46] news conference this afternoon outside

[1:48] the governor's mansion in Little Rock,

[1:50] Arkansas. If you don't have a record to

[1:52] run on and you don't have a vision to

[1:53] offer the American people,

[1:56] if you can't lift people's spirits and

[1:57] improve their conditions,

[1:59] and you desperately, desperately,

[2:01] desperately want to stay in power,

[2:03] what else do you have to do?

[2:05] I have no comment on the specifics.

[2:07] Look, I want this election to be about

[2:09] the American people, about their

[2:10] problems and their future, and about our

[2:13] common efforts to restore this country

[2:15] to its rightful position and to give a

[2:17] future back to our children.

[2:19] And I can't afford to be preoccupied by

[2:22] that sort of nickel-and-dime stuff.

[2:25] And you know, I just can't do it. I

[2:27] I I just blow it off.

[2:29] President Bush today continued to take

[2:31] on his Democratic opponent while

[2:33] disdaining to mention Bill Clinton by

[2:35] name. The president spoke at a factory

[2:37] in Dalton, Georgia.

[2:39] I heard a certain Southern governor say

[2:41] the other day that this country was

[2:44] being ridiculed around the world. Well,

[2:47] I suspect, and I'm not going to name

[2:49] names quite yet,

[2:51] uh I suspect that he hasn't been around

[2:53] much.

[2:55] I'd like to have him walk the streets of

[2:56] Warsaw as I did a few days ago, or

[3:00] Moscow, or maybe sit down with Boris

[3:03] Yeltsin or Helmut Kohl or Miyazawa or a

[3:06] myriad of leaders south of our border,

[3:08] and they'd tell him what you and I

[3:10] already know. The United States is the

[3:13] undisputed leader of the world, and that

[3:16] did not happen by accident. It happened

[3:18] by leadership and by the sons and

[3:21] daughters of America doing what they had

[3:23] to do from Iraq all the way across a

[3:26] might major spectrum of other place.

[3:29] The Bush administration today rejected

[3:31] an Oregon plan to expand health services

[3:34] for the poor through rationing. The

[3:36] state would have provided Medicaid

[3:38] coverage for an additional 120,000

[3:40] people, but it would have done so by

[3:42] limiting services they receive. Health

[3:45] and Human Services Secretary Louis

[3:46] Sullivan said those limits would violate

[3:49] a federal law that protects the

[3:50] disabled. He invited the state to work

[3:53] out the legal problems with its plan and

[3:55] reapply for federal approval.

[3:57] Oregon's Republican Senator Bob Packwood

[4:00] said he was outraged and disappointed by

[4:02] the administration's decision. He said

[4:04] it was motivated by politics. Jim?

[4:07] Millions of black South Africans took

[4:09] part in a nationwide strike today. At

[4:12] least 12 people were killed in violence

[4:14] related to that walkout. Mike Hanna of

[4:16] Independent Television News reports from

[4:18] Johannesburg.

[4:21] Within hours of the beginning of the

[4:22] strike, five people had been killed.

[4:25] Three in a gun battle with police in

[4:27] Soweto.

[4:28] But empty train stations throughout the

[4:30] country were evidence of the strike's

[4:32] success.

[4:33] And the ANC is adamant that each

[4:35] striking worker is endorsing the demands

[4:38] the organization has made on the

[4:40] Pretoria government. It would have

[4:43] sent a very clear signal

[4:45] to the government that our people are

[4:47] determined

[4:48] to be free and they're determined to

[4:50] have democracy installed in this

[4:52] country. For the first time in South

[4:54] Africa, members of the United Nations

[4:57] monitoring group

[4:58] they observed proceedings from the air

[5:01] as well as on the ground with the

[5:02] blessing of both the ANC and the

[5:05] government.

[5:06] And both sides appeared aware of the

[5:08] independent international presence.

[5:11] And like in previous years, there were

[5:13] no clashes between security forces and

[5:15] demonstrators.

[5:17] And most of the mass protests were

[5:18] carried out peacefully.

[5:21] The question now is whether the strike

[5:22] action has served its purpose.

[5:25] Whether faced with evidence of mass

[5:26] opposition, the government will make

[5:29] concessions and allow all parties to

[5:31] return to the negotiating table.

[5:34] Two journalists were shot in South

[5:36] Africa today. Paul Taylor of the

[5:38] Washington Post and Toronto Globe and

[5:40] Mail reporter Philip van Niekerk were in

[5:43] a black township when their car was

[5:45] attacked. They were hospitalized and

[5:47] reported in stable condition.

[5:50] US today confirmed reports that

[5:52] civilians have been tortured and

[5:53] murdered by Serbian forces in Bosnia.

[5:56] State Department spokesman Richard

[5:58] Boucher said Serbs were carrying out

[6:00] what's become known as ethnic cleansing,

[6:02] a policy of using brutal means to

[6:04] establish ethnically pure Serbian

[6:06] regions. Boucher spoke to reporters in

[6:09] Washington.

[6:11] We're deeply concerned about the reports

[6:12] that are

[6:14] coming out that continuing reports that

[6:16] Serbian forces are holding Croatian and

[6:18] Muslim non-combatants in what are called

[6:20] detention centers.

[6:21] Uh we've received continuing reports of

[6:24] abuses, torture, and killings in these

[6:26] Serbian camps.

[6:28] We have made absolutely clear our

[6:29] condemnation of this practice of ethnic

[6:31] cleansing.

[6:32] Uh and I would make absolutely clear our

[6:34] condemnation of of these kinds of abuses

[6:37] that are being reported in these camps.

[6:39] It's just horrible.

[6:40] Boucher refused to say whether the US

[6:42] would consider military action to stop

[6:45] the abuses. British Prime Minister John

[6:47] Major today ruled out the use of NATO

[6:49] forces in Bosnia. He said in a letter to

[6:52] a British opposition leader, "We're not

[6:54] dealing with an orthodox war, a single

[6:56] enemy, a front line, or clearly

[6:58] identifiable target."

[7:00] In Bosnia today, a refugee caravan tried

[7:03] for a second day to evacuate nearly 40

[7:05] orphans. A bus carrying the children,

[7:08] many just babies, was stopped by sniper

[7:10] bullets yesterday. Two of the children

[7:12] were killed. Serb police later moved

[7:15] nine children from the bus in what

[7:17] appeared to be another example of ethnic

[7:19] cleansing. The police believe the

[7:21] children to be Serbs. One orphan has

[7:23] made it to safety in Britain. She was

[7:26] brought there by Independent Television

[7:27] News reporter Michael Nicholson. Carolyn

[7:30] Curr of ITN reports from London.

[7:34] It's hard to believe that 3 weeks ago,

[7:35] 9-year-old Natasha was cowering under

[7:37] sniper fire in the cellar of a Sarajevo

[7:40] orphanage.

[7:41] Today, thanks to the intervention of ITN

[7:43] correspondent Mike Nicholson, she's

[7:45] living in the safety of the Surrey

[7:46] countryside.

[7:48] Mike was filming at her orphanage when

[7:49] he first spotted Natasha and became

[7:51] impassioned about the plight of all the

[7:53] children stranded there. It is

[7:55] extraordinary, is it not,

[7:57] that here we have upwards of 200

[7:59] children in one hospital that comes

[8:01] frequently under bombardment,

[8:03] who could be flown out to safety, to new

[8:05] homes, at least until this war is over.

[8:08] And yet someone, somewhere along the

[8:10] line, is saying no.

[8:12] When a convoy set off for Zagreb, he'd

[8:14] already decided to take her out with

[8:16] him.

[8:17] He illegally added her name to his

[8:19] passport.

[8:20] On the journey to England, she traveled

[8:21] with him as his daughter.

[8:24] They flew together from Zagreb to

[8:25] Heathrow 2 weeks ago.

[8:27] Mike says it just seemed the right thing

[8:29] to do in the circumstances. You get

[8:31] totally caught up in it and you and and

[8:33] as I said, you can't stand back and and

[8:34] and see it impartially. I I saw these

[8:37] kids living in those conditions. I saw

[8:39] her living in those conditions.

[8:41] And I thought, well,

[8:43] here am I asking everybody else to help.

[8:45] I can help.

[8:46] If if any in a small way and with one

[8:48] person,

[8:49] um I'll do it. So, I did it.

[8:51] Now, Natasha is learning to play cricket

[8:53] and to lead a normal life once again.

[8:56] Her father is dead and her mother is

[8:57] missing. Mike and his wife intend to

[8:59] look after her at least until it's safe

[9:01] for her to go home, but perhaps for much

[9:04] longer.

[9:05] Leaders of Russia and Ukraine solved

[9:08] their dispute over the Black Sea Fleet

[9:10] today. They agreed to put it under a

[9:12] joint command until 1995.

[9:15] Presidents Boris Yeltsin and Leonid

[9:17] Kravchuk struck the deal at Kravchuk's

[9:19] vacation home in the Crimea. They said

[9:22] the 3-year agreement would calm tensions

[9:24] and provide time to work out the details

[9:26] of a permanent solution. Control of the

[9:29] 300 ship fleet has been a major source

[9:32] of friction since the breakup of the

[9:33] Soviet Union.

[9:35] An advanced team of US Marines arrived

[9:37] in Kuwait today. 1,900 more will come

[9:40] tomorrow. It was the beginning of 2

[9:42] weeks of joint US Kuwaiti military

[9:44] exercises. A battery of Patriot missiles

[9:48] was sent last week. Bush administration

[9:50] officials have said the operation is a

[9:52] demonstration of its commitment to

[9:54] defend against new Iraqi aggression. In

[9:57] the past few days, Iraq has restated its

[9:59] claims to some Kuwaiti territory.

[10:03] That's our news summary. Ahead on the

[10:05] news hour, the challenge to George Bush

[10:07] on the right, the roots of violence in

[10:09] Los Angeles, and the fallout from Soviet

[10:12] nuclear tests.

[10:22] President Bush had something terrible to

[10:24] read this morning. Conservative Wall

[10:25] Street Journal columnist Paul Gigot said

[10:28] Mr. Bush's own place in history, as well

[10:31] as his party's future, would be more

[10:33] secure if he turned the nomination over

[10:36] to another standard bearer, in quote.

[10:38] Yesterday, similar conservative

[10:40] sentiments were heard on This Week with

[10:42] David Brinkley, and in an editorial in

[10:44] the Orange County Register in Southern

[10:46] California. Last week, leading

[10:48] conservative columnist A.M. Rosenthal of

[10:51] The New York Times, and George Will in

[10:53] The Washington Post, suggested Mr. Bush

[10:55] also step aside. Said Will, "If he runs,

[10:58] he almost certainly will lose, perhaps

[11:00] in a landslide that does considerable

[11:02] damage to his party. If he wins, the

[11:05] second term almost certainly will be

[11:07] even worse than most second terms, worse

[11:09] even than his first", end quote. We have

[11:12] four conservatives, two against two, to

[11:15] debate this growing Bush should go

[11:17] message. Richard Viguerie is a long-time

[11:19] activist, author of a new book, Lip

[11:22] Service: George Bush's 30-Year Battle

[11:24] With the Conservatives. Adam Meyerson is

[11:26] editor of the Policy Review magazine,

[11:28] published by the Heritage Foundation.

[11:31] Congressman Vin Weber, Republican of

[11:33] Minnesota, is a member of the House

[11:34] leadership. Midge Decter is a fellow at

[11:37] the Institute on religion and public

[11:39] life in New York. Mr. Myerson, how do

[11:41] you add up the case for Mr. Bush to step

[11:44] aside?

[11:46] I don't think George Bush is going to

[11:48] step aside. He won the primaries, but

[11:51] conservatives are very disillusioned

[11:52] with him, and he's going to have to do

[11:54] several things to win back more than

[11:56] just their lukewarm support.

[11:58] First, he has to apologize sincerely and

[12:01] convincingly to the American people for

[12:04] breaking his promise on new taxes.

[12:06] Second, he's got to show he's committed

[12:09] to restoring the job creation and

[12:11] economic growth that Americans enjoyed

[12:13] under Ronald Reagan.

[12:15] And third, he's got to seize the the

[12:18] initiative again on family values, an

[12:20] initiative that he had and that he's

[12:22] abandoned to Bill Clinton right now. And

[12:24] if he does all of that, everything's all

[12:26] right? I think if he does that,

[12:28] conservatives will will be much more

[12:30] enthusiastic about President Bush. They

[12:33] supported him more or less in 1988 when

[12:35] he ran on Reagan economic policies. If

[12:38] he were to return to those policies,

[12:40] they would be much more enthusiastic in

[12:42] 1992. Congressman Weber, is it that

[12:44] simple?

[12:45] Well, I think the the the the president

[12:47] obviously has some problems going to

[12:49] this fall's election, but all this

[12:51] pre-convention

[12:53] bickering is not helping the cause in in

[12:56] one slight detail. President Bush is

[12:58] going to be renominated by the

[13:00] Republican National Convention. He

[13:01] ultimately is going to get the votes of

[13:03] my friend Richard Viguerie and Adam

[13:05] Myerson and Midge Decter and all these

[13:07] other conservatives who may have some

[13:08] legitimate

[13:10] criticisms to make of the White House,

[13:12] but our job right now has to be to put

[13:15] George Bush up against Bill Clinton and

[13:16] understand there is really no choice for

[13:18] conservatives. This is a very clear

[13:20] choice. This president, after all, has

[13:21] done a lot of things we believe in very

[13:23] strongly on the abortion issue. He has

[13:25] an agenda which, if it had been

[13:27] implemented would make him a hero with

[13:28] conservatives. Capital gains tax

[13:30] reduction, choice in education,

[13:33] enterprise zones, but he couldn't get

[13:35] them past a Democrat dominated Congress,

[13:38] and that's the problem that he's faced.

[13:40] Mr. Vickrey, others have suggested the

[13:42] only reason you and others are are on

[13:44] Bush's case right now is because he's in

[13:46] trouble. He wasn't in trouble, you would

[13:48] be right in line

[13:50] right behind him. Well,

[13:52] conservatives have never been happy with

[13:55] uh with George Bush. I've uh fellow

[13:57] Houstonian with uh the president and I

[13:59] followed his career uh very carefully

[14:01] over the years and uh he has had, as you

[14:03] said uh the subtitle of my book, a

[14:05] 30-year running battle with uh with

[14:08] conservatives.

[14:09] Yeah, in the 1980s, this president

[14:11] traveled the length and breadth of the

[14:12] country communicating to every

[14:14] conservative group that he could uh

[14:16] address saying, "Trust me, I am a

[14:19] conservative, and I promise you

[14:21] uh that if I'm elected, I will govern as

[14:23] a conservative." And he then set about

[14:25] campaigning as a uh as a conservative.

[14:28] He asked for a conservative platform

[14:30] much in the mold of the 1884 platform.

[14:32] And then as soon as he became president,

[14:34] he purged his administration of the vast

[14:36] majority of conservatives, also out of

[14:38] the Republican National Committee. Uh he

[14:41] set about surrounding himself with

[14:43] corporate types, big business, Wall

[14:44] Street, country club Republicans, and

[14:47] basically just totally abandoned the

[14:49] Reagan agenda of government is a

[14:51] problem. Uh we need lower taxes, we need

[14:53] less regulation, we need less spending.

[14:55] And he began to govern as uh as if he

[14:57] were Nelson Rockefeller. And uh it's

[15:00] going to take a lot more than than

[15:01] rhetoric. I mean, I agree with what Adam

[15:03] said, uh but I I would add that words

[15:06] are just not going to do it. Uh the man

[15:08] has almost no credibility. Then he uh

[15:10] you say a liberal Congress has kept him

[15:11] from all this. Uh last year he had 91%

[15:14] job approval. 91% job approval. He went

[15:17] to the American people and said, "I want

[15:18] two things. I want a highway bill, and I

[15:19] want a crime bill." Why wasn't he

[15:21] Congress would have given him anything

[15:23] he asked for. He did not do it. Congress

[15:26] has not been

[15:27] proposing 10% increases the first 3

[15:30] years he was president. Proposed 10%

[15:31] increases. Let's go to Mrs. Doctor in

[15:33] New York. What do you think? How do you

[15:34] respond to that that rather blanket

[15:37] serious charge against President Bush?

[15:39] Well,

[15:40] I agree with Vin Weber that we're all

[15:42] going to vote for him because all you

[15:45] have to do is consider the alternative.

[15:48] It's interesting that Bill Clinton has

[15:51] been campaigning as a moderate.

[15:54] On the other hand, if you for instance

[15:57] look at his foreign policy team, they

[16:00] are all old re-tread Carterites.

[16:03] And

[16:05] therefore, it's very clear that we're

[16:07] going to vote for George Bush. However,

[16:09] it makes a very big difference.

[16:12] And I would say this to Congressman

[16:15] Weber. It makes a very big difference

[16:17] whether you vote with tears streaming

[16:18] down your cheeks and holding your nose

[16:22] or whether you can't wait to get to the

[16:24] poll. And let's not kid ourselves. That

[16:27] is the way conservatives are going to be

[16:30] voting for him. With tears streaming

[16:32] down their cheeks.

[16:32] >> Why?

[16:34] Because

[16:36] he has of course

[16:39] flunked on all his promises, but I think

[16:42] there's something deeper than that.

[16:45] There is a a a serious

[16:48] cultural

[16:50] battle going on in this country.

[16:52] It is the battle that the president of

[16:55] the United States must join at this

[16:57] point. Clinton understands this well

[17:00] enough to pay lip service to it.

[17:03] I don't think

[17:04] that

[17:05] I'm not going to speak about George Bush

[17:07] the man. I don't know the man. But I

[17:09] don't think that his administration

[17:12] has given any sign aside from platform

[17:16] planks, but those aren't those aren't uh

[17:18] uh

[17:19] anything and and everybody in America

[17:21] knows that. They haven't given any

[17:24] any sign of understanding what's really

[17:27] moving in this country. If they did,

[17:31] then Bush's response to say the Los

[17:33] Angeles riots would have been very

[17:36] different.

[17:37] Uh their people in this country are

[17:39] demoralized and they're frightened and

[17:43] there are lots of other problems going

[17:45] on beside the economy.

[17:47] Uh I'm sure that he is sitting in the

[17:49] White House with his advisers and they

[17:52] are say they are blaming all their

[17:53] difficulties on the economy.

[17:56] And they're saying to one another, "If

[17:57] it picks up, we'll be doing better."

[18:00] And uh it's not so.

[18:03] This is not simply a problem of the

[18:05] economy. It's a problem of the the

[18:08] general demoralization

[18:11] of the American people, to which he has

[18:13] contributed mightily. I uh Uh

[18:16] Congressman Weber, I have another

[18:18] serious indictment. I I think these are

[18:20] all my friends, wonderful people. I

[18:22] think that they are overlooking some of

[18:24] the important things this president's

[18:26] done for conservatives. First of all, I

[18:28] was in Congress during the entire Reagan

[18:30] administration and during the Bush

[18:31] administration. There is no more

[18:33] important moral issue to conservatives

[18:35] than abortion, and this president has

[18:37] been a hero. He has taken far tougher

[18:39] stands than Ronald Reagan was ever

[18:40] forced to take by the circumstances that

[18:42] existed when he was president, and he's

[18:44] never let us down. Second of all, he

[18:46] appointed Clarence Thomas to the United

[18:47] States Supreme Court. There are very few

[18:50] things that will help the conservative

[18:51] movement more over the course of my

[18:53] lifetime than to have an intelligent,

[18:55] articulate black conservative sitting on

[18:58] the United States Supreme Court. Third,

[19:00] we're in a period of the build-down of

[19:02] our nation's defenses in the in the wake

[19:04] of the Cold War. That could be done very

[19:07] irresponsibly. Nobody's going to talk a

[19:09] lot about it because it isn't a hot

[19:10] issue. This administration has managed

[19:12] our national defenses, which used to be

[19:14] and still should be a top conservative

[19:16] priority, uh masterfully over the

[19:19] objections of just about everybody in

[19:20] the Congress, including some

[19:22] Republicans. Uh now, I don't say that

[19:24] there are no places where conservatives

[19:26] have a right to have have some to launch

[19:28] some criticism, but these are not small

[19:30] matters and they ought to be taken into

[19:32] account before people like like Midge

[19:34] and and and Richard go to the polls with

[19:36] tears streaming down their faces.

[19:37] >> Myerson, your analysis, Congressman

[19:39] Weber, what's going on? What caused all

[19:41] these folks to do all of this, these

[19:42] editorials and these columns and and for

[19:45] everybody to come out of the woodwork

[19:46] suddenly and start bashing the

[19:48] president, people of their own party?

[19:49] >> Clinton has a big lead. Uh we're all

[19:51] nervous about that. I'm nervous about

[19:52] that. We're not exactly sure in the

[19:54] middle of the summer what to do about it

[19:55] and so some people are saying dump Bush,

[19:57] dump Quayle, bring in Jim Baker. None of

[20:00] those things are are are going to

[20:01] address some of the core problems we

[20:03] have, which are real. But the election

[20:05] isn't held till the fall. Conservatives

[20:07] need to get behind this president. And

[20:09] then let me say, yeah, after this

[20:11] election is over, we need to do some

[20:12] good hard thinking. There is not today a

[20:15] grassroots movement that exists on

[20:18] behalf of capital gains tax reduction,

[20:20] on behalf of educational choice, on

[20:22] behalf of urban enterprise zones, on

[20:23] behalf of the whole dramatic change in

[20:25] society that I want to see, that Richard

[20:27] Viguerie wants to see, that Adam

[20:29] Meyerson and Midge Decter want to see.

[20:30] And we ought to go about the business of

[20:32] organizing that. But between now and

[20:34] November, we got to fight off Phil

[20:35] Clinton and reelect George Bush.

[20:37] Jim Mr. Myerson, let me ask Mr. Myerson

[20:39] uh what's your analysis of why you and

[20:42] others are suddenly uh come out so

[20:44] strongly and so publicly and so

[20:46] vehemently in this uh against President

[20:48] Bush?

[20:49] Why were In other words, where have you

[20:51] been before it Where were you before he

[20:52] got in trouble in the polls is what I'm

[20:54] actually asking, I guess. Well, we've

[20:56] been criticizing the budget agreement of

[20:58] 1990 for uh since it started, since even

[21:00] before it was uh uh when it was being

[21:02] negotiated. Uh we think that the uh

[21:05] agreement was it was sold on the on the

[21:08] premise that this would reduce the

[21:09] deficit. What happened was we had higher

[21:12] taxes and a doubling of the budget

[21:14] deficit. We think this was disastrous.

[21:17] Do you think it was the president's

[21:18] fault? Uh the president was all was all

[21:20] behind it. He certainly uh

[21:22] uh I think he's been misled by his

[21:24] budget director Dick Darman and by his

[21:26] Treasury Secretary Nicholas Brady. Uh I

[21:29] know there's been a lot of talk about

[21:30] dumping Quayle from the ticket, but if

[21:32] anybody should be dumped from the Bush

[21:34] administration it would be the economic

[21:36] policy makers who misled him about what

[21:39] effects raising taxes would have on the

[21:41] American people.

[21:42] >> has conceded, however, that that was a

[21:43] serious mistake. I mean I was against it

[21:45] when it happened and the president has

[21:47] conceded it was a mistake. It was a it

[21:49] was a mistake that he made with good

[21:50] intentions. He thought he was getting a

[21:52] good agreement to reduce spending. It

[21:53] wasn't a good deal. We got higher taxes

[21:55] that hurt the economy and he's

[21:56] recognized that. Richard Nixon did say

[21:59] that that he did say, "I'm sorry I did

[22:01] it because look at all the political

[22:02] problems it's caused me." He really did

[22:04] not look at the TV cameras and say, "I'm

[22:06] sorry I did it. It was wrong to raise

[22:08] taxes on an overtaxed American." Let me

[22:10] ask you a question. Are you doing what

[22:12] you're doing because you are trying to

[22:14] get President Bush to actually say I

[22:16] won't run again, or is this are you

[22:18] trying to give him a message?

[22:19] >> No, I I really think that this president

[22:21] should seriously consider doing uh doing

[22:23] what three of the last eight US

[22:25] presidents have done. Harry Truman,

[22:27] Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon stood down

[22:29] uh rather than take their party and

[22:31] their country through a dramatic uh

[22:33] election and in in constitutional

[22:36] crises. I think that this uh president

[22:38] needs to uh have a serious talk with

[22:40] themselves as like Bill Bennett

[22:41] suggested recently and uh and and deal

[22:45] with the fact, "Why do I want to be

[22:47] president a second term?" Uh the man

[22:49] apparently has no plan, no vision, no

[22:52] goals that he wants to achieve. Uh

[22:55] uh John Sununu, two years uh into this

[22:57] administration, uh told a conservative

[22:59] gathering, "We have now accomplished all

[23:01] of the things that we came to town to

[23:03] accomplish. He certainly doesn't need a

[23:05] second term. But Richard, you know

[23:07] perfectly well he's not going to stand

[23:10] down. You know that, right? We We know

[23:12] that today, but we don't know this

[23:14] from small acorns big trees grow. This

[23:17] tree would have to grow pretty fast. The

[23:18] Republican convention is 2 weeks away.

[23:20] What what He's not going to do that.

[23:23] >> the point? What's the point, Mrs.

[23:24] Doctor? He is not going to do it.

[23:25] >> think you see I think Vin Weber you

[23:28] should ask yourself, why is it that

[23:31] conservatives were happy with Ronald

[23:32] Reagan, who basically didn't do all that

[23:35] much more

[23:36] than George Bush, and are very unhappy

[23:38] with George Bush? And I maintain that

[23:41] there is a critical cultural difference

[23:45] that not only conservatives, but all

[23:48] those voters, those people called Reagan

[23:50] Democrats um

[23:53] felt assured that there was somebody at

[23:56] home

[23:58] who had some notion of what was going on

[24:01] with them. And they don't feel that way

[24:04] about this man for very good reason.

[24:07] Now, foreign policy happens to be my

[24:10] particular

[24:11] interest,

[24:12] special interest.

[24:14] And one can't say

[24:17] that George Bush has had a brilliant

[24:20] record, although this is the particular

[24:22] record he's claiming triumph in.

[24:25] He He prosecuted a war which he left

[24:30] hanging.

[24:31] He neither concluded it nor figured out

[24:36] had any real serious policy about it.

[24:39] His policy in the Middle East in

[24:41] general, I think is really disastrous.

[24:45] He

[24:47] was forced into recognizing

[24:50] the alter the radical alteration going

[24:53] on in the Soviet Union. There were no

[24:55] volunteers

[24:57] uh

[24:58] to join Yeltsin's train. They had to be

[25:01] forced into it. They were all still

[25:03] playing footsie with with Gorbachev long

[25:07] after the Russians were trying to tell

[25:09] them that he was of no importance to

[25:12] them. So, there's no great record here.

[25:14] The only thing uh that I would say to

[25:17] Richard Viguerie is that at least under

[25:21] a Bush presidency you have the sense

[25:24] that some resistance will be offered to

[25:27] the rot. And with uh and with a Clinton

[25:30] presidency, you have no assurance that

[25:32] there will be even resistance. Yes,

[25:35] Congressman.

[25:35] >> Well, I just First of all, in terms of

[25:36] foreign policy, I I have to take issue

[25:39] with that. I I understand now in

[25:40] retrospect everybody thinks we should

[25:42] have charged into Baghdad regardless of

[25:44] how many Americans came home dead, and a

[25:46] lot would have. This president conducted

[25:49] the war successfully with a minimum

[25:51] American loss of life. And in terms of

[25:52] one of my personal greatest objectives,

[25:54] which is our partnership with Israel in

[25:56] the Mideast, which I know Midgley cares

[25:58] a great deal about, we broke up the Arab

[26:00] coalition against Israel. We now have

[26:03] implacable foes of Israel sitting down

[26:05] at the table ready to talk with them.

[26:07] We've isolated Saddam Hussein even

[26:09] though we have not eliminated him, and

[26:11] there is not a united radical Arab bloc

[26:13] dominating the politics of the Arab

[26:15] world. Would I like to have seen more?

[26:17] Sure, I'd like to see Hussein replaced.

[26:19] For that matter, I'd like to see Assad

[26:21] replaced. But, this policy was a success

[26:24] with a minimum loss of American life,

[26:27] and Israel is more secure today because

[26:28] of it, and I think of that as a success.

[26:30] Mr. Myerson, when as the Congressman

[26:33] said, the Republican convention is only

[26:35] two two weeks away now, a little over

[26:37] two weeks away, what is any of this

[26:39] going to matter?

[26:41] Uh

[26:42] I think as I think George Bush will be

[26:44] the nominee, but he should look at the

[26:47] conservative criticism as a kind of

[26:49] wake-up call and

[26:50] >> Why he? What In other words, what does

[26:51] he What does he face if he does not

[26:55] listen to what you all are telling him

[26:56] in terms of electoral electorally, what

[26:59] does he face? Well, to begin with, he

[27:01] needs people who are excited about his

[27:03] campaign. Uh Bill Clinton does have

[27:05] people excited by his campaign. Uh the

[27:07] president needs the same and right now

[27:10] conservatives are I would say lukewarm

[27:12] supporters of President Bush. And

[27:14] without you all, he has no potential for

[27:16] getting people excited, do you think? Uh

[27:18] conservatives are his natural base in

[27:21] terms of the people who are going to go

[27:22] out and stuff envelopes and ring

[27:24] doorbells and he does not have them

[27:26] excited now. You know

[27:27] >> 45% of self-identified conservatives,

[27:30] Jim, are now saying they're going to

[27:31] vote for uh for Bill Clinton.

[27:34] Uh Clinton is leading in Orange County.

[27:35] Hasn't gone Democrat since 1936. Hasn't

[27:38] gone uh

[27:40] Republican. Uh hasn't gone Democrat.

[27:41] I'll get it right here in a minute.

[27:42] Yeah, hasn't gone Democrat, right? Since

[27:44] 1936.

[27:46] Uh Clinton is leading 18% in Orange

[27:49] County. There are Democrats as Adam

[27:52] uh indicated who probably left New York,

[27:54] who have hardly slept with their

[27:55] enthusiasm and their commitment to elect

[27:57] Bill Clinton. I do not know the name

[27:59] literally of one enthusiastic Bush

[28:01] supporter. And it has to do with what

[28:04] you were talking about earlier. The

[28:05] genesis of this is that the Bush people

[28:07] came into office with the attitude as

[28:09] conservatives have no place else to go

[28:12] and they treated us as country cousins

[28:14] and told us sit in the back of the bus

[28:16] and be quiet. And those chickens are

[28:17] coming home to roost now.

[28:18] >> Congressman Weber, as a practical

[28:20] matter, what in the world could

[28:21] President Bush do about these people?

[28:23] Not not a whole lot right now. I mean,

[28:25] the the economy is stagnant. He's not

[28:26] doing very well in the polls. This is

[28:28] going to turn around by the time we get

[28:29] to the fall. The president has already

[28:31] started to do what he in the end is

[28:33] going to make my friend Richard Viguerie

[28:34] and everybody else we're talking to

[28:35] tonight very excited. He's taking on

[28:37] Bill Clinton on the issues. He took him

[28:39] on on welfare in California. He took him

[28:41] on on health care over the weekend, a

[28:43] very important issue where Clinton has a

[28:45] plan which would dramatically raise

[28:47] taxes for self-employed people and for a

[28:49] lot of people out of work. As we

[28:50] delineate the issues between George Bush

[28:53] and Bill Clinton, uh his conservative

[28:55] critics are going to come home. All I'm

[28:56] saying is do it now before you've done

[28:58] damage to this president's re-election

[29:00] effort because by the time we get to

[29:01] November, everybody's going to

[29:03] understand we have to re-elect George

[29:04] Bush. All right.

[29:06] >> I could I I would like to say Very

[29:08] quickly. One thing more about the

[29:10] conservatives, it's not only that

[29:12] they're going to that they would be

[29:13] ringing doorbells. It's that we learned

[29:16] in the 1980s that they're the ones with

[29:19] the connection into the average American

[29:24] voter. We have We have to leave it

[29:25] there. Ms. Doctor, gentlemen, thank you.

[29:27] Thank you.

[29:29] Still ahead on the NewsHour, behind the

[29:31] LA violence and the legacy of Soviet

[29:34] nuclear power.

[29:42] >> [music]

[29:44] >> Next tonight, an update on the violence

[29:46] in Los Angeles that mesmerized the

[29:48] nation last spring. The legal aftermath

[29:51] to the riots continued this week with

[29:53] the trial of three men accused of

[29:55] beating and robbing motorists.

[29:57] Correspondent Jeffrey Kaye of public

[29:58] station KCET reports on the community's

[30:01] reaction to their case.

[30:07] On April 29th, TV cameras recorded a

[30:10] series of brutal attacks at the

[30:12] intersection of Florence and Normandy

[30:14] Avenues in South Central Los Angeles.

[30:16] Starting soon after the verdict in the

[30:18] Rodney King beating case, black youth

[30:21] pelted motorists with rocks and bottles.

[30:24] Some drivers were even pulled from their

[30:25] cars, beaten and robbed. Police were

[30:28] nowhere in sight. It was mob rule.

[30:32] The viciousness of the attack on white

[30:34] truck driver Reginald Denny, broadcast

[30:37] on live TV, quickly became a symbol of

[30:39] out of control racial violence.

[30:42] Two weeks after the Denny beating,

[30:44] police made high-profile arrests of four

[30:47] men in connection with the case.

[30:49] Prosecutors asked they be held without

[30:51] bail and charged them with attempted

[30:53] murder, robbery, mayhem, and torture.

[30:56] The complaint sets forth the following

[30:58] as special allegations.

[31:00] As to Damian Williams, gang association

[31:03] in the commission of the alleged

[31:04] offenses. Police say the violence at

[31:07] Florence and Normandy was orchestrated

[31:09] by gang and that three of the four

[31:11] defendants are violent gang members. The

[31:14] defendants deny gang affiliations and

[31:17] many in the black community are rallying

[31:20] to the defense of men they call the LA

[31:22] four. Uh we want to make certain that

[31:24] justice is available to them as justice

[31:27] has been available to anyone else.

[31:29] The Reverend Edgar Boyd is pastor of the

[31:32] Bethel African Methodist Episcopal

[31:33] Church. He and other leaders are afraid

[31:36] that the men accused of assaulting

[31:38] Reginald Denny will not be treated

[31:40] fairly by the same justice system that

[31:42] acquitted the white officers who beat

[31:44] Rodney King.

[31:46] Give these four young men the same level

[31:48] of consideration. Let them remain

[31:51] innocent until a a justice system proves

[31:54] them guilty.

[31:56] The four men, Antoine Miller, Damian

[31:59] Williams, Gary Williams, and Henry

[32:01] Watson have pleaded not guilty to the

[32:04] charges. A fifth, Anthony Brown, has

[32:06] pleaded innocent to a charge of spitting

[32:09] on Denny as Denny lay on the ground.

[32:11] The bail on the men ranges up to

[32:13] $580,000.

[32:15] Three of those charged in the Denny

[32:17] attack are also accused of assaulting a

[32:19] dozen other people at the intersection.

[32:24] Today, guarded buildings at Florence and

[32:27] Normandy are reminders of the chilling

[32:29] violence which occurred there.

[32:31] Tom's Liquor Store, one of the first

[32:33] looted in the riots, has reopened. And

[32:36] there is a new business on the corner, a

[32:38] stand selling t-shirts reading justice

[32:40] for the LA 4 raises money for the

[32:43] defendant.

[32:44] Bake sale!

[32:46] Come out! Get a pie!

[32:47] Pie sale!

[32:49] A block away, supporters of the men

[32:51] recently held a bake sale. Some

[32:53] neighbors sported yellow ribbons to

[32:55] demonstrate their support.

[32:57] Friends and family were quick to disavow

[33:00] the violence that occurred at Florence

[33:01] and Normandy. They say they're speaking

[33:04] out because they feel the bail is

[33:05] excessive and the charges overstated.

[33:08] Georgina Williams, a nurse, said she's

[33:11] only seeking fair treatment for her son

[33:13] Damien, charged with beating Denny and

[33:15] nine other people. I'm saying if the

[33:17] boys did this, they should be arrested.

[33:21] But treat them like you treat other

[33:22] people. The justice system should be the

[33:25] same for me as it is for you.

[33:27] You got the same law book. Somebody

[33:29] who's seen Los Angeles District Attorney

[33:31] Ira Reiner maintains the justice system

[33:34] is fair.

[33:35] There is only a single standard of

[33:37] justice. That standard is that where

[33:40] there a crime has been committed, it

[33:41] will be investigated and it will be

[33:43] prosecuted. It was prosecuted in the

[33:45] King case. It's going to be prosecuted

[33:47] in this case right here.

[33:49] But many in this predominantly black

[33:51] community say there are different

[33:53] standards in their neighborhood. Young

[33:55] men complain the police too often assume

[33:57] they are gang members.

[34:00] Auto mechanic Kermit Cunningham is

[34:02] charged with throwing rocks at police

[34:04] just prior to the violence at Florence

[34:06] and Normandy.

[34:08] He says the Rodney King verdict ignited

[34:10] an anger about what many in the

[34:12] community feel is constant police

[34:14] harassment.

[34:15] It's not the Rodney King

[34:17] verdict that has everyone upset. It's

[34:20] the years

[34:22] of police officers treating blacks like

[34:24] this.

[34:26] I've never got a ticket sitting in my

[34:27] car.

[34:29] I've always You to get out, put your

[34:31] hands up.

[34:32] You know what I mean?

[34:35] Some residents say police action may

[34:37] have triggered the violence at Florence

[34:38] and Normandy on April 29th. Police first

[34:41] responded to reports of rocks and

[34:43] bottles being thrown a few blocks away.

[34:46] They arrested three people. One of them

[34:48] was let go without charges filed against

[34:51] him. That young man, who asked us not to

[34:53] identify him, said his arrest and

[34:55] treatment by the police enraged an angry

[34:58] crowd.

[34:59] The police They know had um

[35:03] had started after me and I haven't done

[35:05] nothing. They had thought I had threw a

[35:06] rock and all my friends they were

[35:08] standing around and they they knew I

[35:11] hadn't threw no rock. The officers

[35:14] had handcuffed the young man and threw

[35:15] him over the fence like he was a

[35:18] piece of garbage.

[35:20] Jay Kowanna, owner of a nearby car wash,

[35:22] said the police should have handled

[35:24] matters differently. When you seen

[35:26] something like that, the first thing

[35:28] came to their mind after just hearing

[35:29] that verdict was on television that it

[35:31] wouldn't be another Rodney King

[35:32] incident.

[35:33] I was on the ground and they were trying

[35:35] to handcuff me.

[35:36] And uh officer said to me, "Don't make

[35:39] this another Rodney King incident."

[35:42] The crowd taunted police officers who

[35:44] were ordered to leave.

[35:54] After the police retreated, a group of

[35:56] men attacked a photographer. A crowd

[35:58] then gathered at Florence and Normandy.

[36:00] The attacks on mostly non-black

[36:03] passersby went on for at least 2 hours.

[36:09] That's our first Rodney King riot, boys.

[36:13] Among the victims was construction

[36:15] worker Fidel Lopez, who still doesn't

[36:17] understand why he was beaten or why the

[36:20] police weren't there to help him.

[36:22] Almost I lost my life for nothing.

[36:24] Cuz I know those people is in that bad

[36:27] moment. They are angry with anybody. You

[36:28] see it on anybody. I don't care who is

[36:30] who.

[36:31] And uh

[36:32] but I'm the victim. I'm innocent. And I

[36:34] don't know what they do why they do that

[36:36] to me. And they say they they hit 10 or

[36:40] more people before me. And I say who's

[36:42] the police?

[36:43] With no police around, several good

[36:45] Samaritans risked their lives to save

[36:48] victims. A pastor helped Lopez to

[36:50] safety. Others eventually rescued

[36:53] Reginald Denny, who according to his

[36:55] doctor was left near death as he lay

[36:57] next to his truck.

[36:59] Barbara and James Henry rescued a Latino

[37:01] motorist who was beaten unconscious in

[37:03] front of their home. Me and another guy

[37:05] just just got to lift him up and just

[37:08] took him over to the side

[37:10] and laid him right where you see that

[37:11] that red mark.

[37:12] The Henry family has lived in this home

[37:15] for 10 years. James Henry, an aerospace

[37:17] worker, says he was angered by the

[37:20] violence, but he understands it.

[37:22] Oh, I was

[37:23] very angry because

[37:25] it wasn't a way of to go about making a

[37:27] change. You know, I

[37:29] I sympathize with with how they felt.

[37:33] But I but I didn't agree with how they

[37:35] were going about trying to make a

[37:37] change.

[37:38] The Henry's are sympathetic because

[37:40] they've seen the neighborhood

[37:41] deteriorate. They've witnessed rising

[37:43] unemployment and crime and are planning

[37:46] to move because they want their son

[37:48] Jacques to live in a community without

[37:50] gangs.

[37:51] I really want Jacques to have to make a

[37:53] choice about

[37:56] political creed. Republican and Democrat

[37:58] and independent, yes, but not I don't

[38:00] want him to have to make that type of

[38:02] choice. And if we stayed here, it's

[38:04] almost imperative that he's going to

[38:06] have to make a choice.

[38:09] How you doing?

[38:10] The residential area around Florence and

[38:13] Normandy appears to be a typical

[38:14] middle-class neighborhood, but it's not.

[38:17] Some 21% of the residents live below the

[38:20] poverty level. The poverty rate is even

[38:22] higher than it was during the 1965 Watts

[38:25] riot.

[38:26] Back then, residents were able to use

[38:28] the income from relatively well-paying

[38:30] factory jobs to buy these single-family

[38:33] homes, but those jobs have largely dried

[38:36] up.

[38:37] So, you you have more

[38:41] poverty

[38:42] and joblessness

[38:44] because the jobs are just not available.

[38:47] You know, there there's not

[38:50] I don't think a single

[38:52] factory type of organization

[38:55] that's

[38:57] within a 3-mile radius here.

[38:59] Is it Avenue or Street?

[39:01] After the recent riots, the federal

[39:03] government expanded its summer

[39:05] employment program. Young applicants

[39:07] waited in line for hours for mostly

[39:10] minimum wage jobs. Are you using drugs?

[39:14] Okay, have you been in jail before?

[39:16] But, the jobs offered here are only

[39:18] temporary. Many in the community, such

[39:21] as family physician AC Mitchell, would

[39:23] like to see long-lasting solutions to

[39:25] the area's deep-seated problems. Is

[39:28] there anybody you want me to be called?

[39:30] Mitchell has worked in the community for

[39:32] 20 years and has also seen its slow

[39:35] decline.

[39:36] I see people

[39:38] walking up and down the street who used

[39:39] to ride in cars.

[39:44] I see children who used to be

[39:46] well-dressed walking up and down the

[39:48] street not quite so well-dressed now.

[39:52] So, this tells me that what I'm looking

[39:54] at

[39:55] is a deteriorating neighborhood.

[39:58] Mitchell feels the riots were an

[39:59] expression of frustration.

[40:02] These kids

[40:04] are trying to express themselves.

[40:07] They are frustrated.

[40:08] They're rebelling against the system.

[40:10] You cannot do this to me forever and get

[40:12] away with it.

[40:14] We must embrace each other

[40:17] as we stand up and speak out for justice

[40:20] and for what's right.

[40:21] The Reverend Edgar Boyd is helping to

[40:23] raise money for the defendants accused

[40:25] in the Florence and Normandy violence.

[40:28] He rejects the use of the word riot.

[40:31] It was rebellion.

[40:33] Uh it was a group of people who had been

[40:35] uh isolated, who had been uh

[40:38] uh

[40:39] ostracized, who had been uh just pushed

[40:42] out, disallowed uh to participate in the

[40:45] institutions that make differences,

[40:47] institutions that make decisions,

[40:49] institutions that really govern the

[40:51] welfare of the people who make up the

[40:53] community. And they then lashed out at

[40:56] the institution, not particularly at

[40:58] Reginald Denny because they didn't know

[40:59] Reginald Denny from anybody else. He

[41:01] just happened to be a white American who

[41:04] represented the institution.

[41:06] And they responded. They reacted. And

[41:09] you can understand that. I can

[41:10] understand that. I'm not condoning

[41:12] anything that's immoral. I'm not

[41:14] condoning anything that's irresponsible,

[41:16] nor anything that's unlawful. But I can

[41:18] understand the trauma, the social and

[41:21] emotional trauma through which they went

[41:22] because I went through it, too.

[41:26] >> [music]

[41:27] >> Riot or rebellion, all sides, community

[41:30] activists, police, and prosecutors agree

[41:33] the neighborhood has significant social

[41:35] and economic problems.

[41:37] But for the short term, those in law

[41:39] enforcement are treating the violence at

[41:41] Florence and Normandy as a series of

[41:44] street crimes. The prosecutor in charge

[41:46] of the cases is Lawrence Maroso. For

[41:49] whatever reason,

[41:51] there was an outbreak of violence.

[41:53] And characterize it as civil unrest, an

[41:56] uprising, a rebellion, or even a riot.

[41:58] We're treating this as a series of

[42:00] crimes

[42:01] that individuals committed. We're

[42:03] investigating and and prosecuting.

[42:06] We expect to prosecute more. And from

[42:08] the videotapes we've seen, there are in

[42:10] excess of 50 to 75 individuals

[42:12] committing attacks.

[42:14] We have an additional number of citizens

[42:17] who have reported crimes that we don't

[42:19] know who did them yet against them. 50

[42:21] to 75 individuals committing crimes on

[42:23] how many people?

[42:27] Probably in excess of 100.

[42:29] Morrison is part of a 20-member federal

[42:31] local task force inspecting hours of

[42:34] videotape shot at Florence and Normandy

[42:37] during the riot.

[42:38] Once again, videotape will be key

[42:40] evidence in a highly charged beating

[42:43] case where questions of justice will be

[42:45] paramount.

[42:50] >> [music]

[42:56] >> Finally tonight, we have an American

[42:58] look at a tragic legacy of nuclear

[43:00] testing in the Cold War arms race. This

[43:03] testing took place at a top-secret site

[43:06] in what used to be the Soviet Union.

[43:08] Today, the site near the town of

[43:10] Semipalatinsk is in the Republic of

[43:12] Kazakhstan. For almost 40 years, the

[43:15] Soviet government tested its nuclear

[43:17] devices there. Recently, correspondent

[43:19] Charles Krause talked with an American

[43:21] photographer who visit visited

[43:23] Kazakhstan and produced a graphic record

[43:26] of record of what happened there before

[43:28] testing was halted last year.

[43:43] The Semipalatinsk polygon was the Soviet

[43:45] Union's principal nuclear test site for

[43:48] more than 40 years. Some 500 nuclear

[43:51] devices, including hydrogen bombs of

[43:54] enormous destructive power, were

[43:57] detonated here in what was Soviet

[43:59] Kazakhstan.

[44:01] Today, the test site is a vast

[44:03] radioactive wasteland.

[44:05] Closed by the Russians last year as a

[44:07] first step toward their goal of a

[44:09] permanent worldwide ban on nuclear

[44:12] testing.

[44:15] The very large towers that you see here

[44:18] were instrumentation towers for the

[44:20] atmospheric nuclear tests.

[44:23] You can see the the shattering effect

[44:25] though from the explosion in many of

[44:26] these towers.

[44:28] James Lerager is a photojournalist from

[44:31] California who's traveled widely

[44:33] reporting on nuclear issues.

[44:36] Last fall he was present at the official

[44:38] closing of the Semipalatinsk site. It

[44:42] was, he says, an historic occasion.

[44:45] I was able to, I'm fairly short notice,

[44:47] make arrangements to get there. I

[44:49] thought it was very critical to be able

[44:50] to go into villages and document the

[44:53] history and the people of the test site.

[44:55] Were the military who control

[44:58] Semipalatinsk

[45:00] reluctant to allow you, an American, to

[45:02] visit? Uh

[45:04] They were very reluctant. The commander

[45:06] of Kurchatov city was very upset about

[45:09] not only my presence, but the presence

[45:11] of several other Americans and

[45:13] Europeans. And in particular, the

[45:16] presence of a number of people from

[45:19] Kazakhstan, the first time that they had

[45:21] ever had an opportunity to go onto the

[45:23] test grounds themselves. They were

[45:25] forced into it from pressure from Moscow

[45:28] and the government of Kazakhstan.

[45:31] What Lerager found and documented in

[45:34] Kazakhstan last fall was yet another

[45:37] long suppressed human and environmental

[45:40] tragedy from the Cold War that's only

[45:42] now coming to light.

[45:44] It turns out the Soviets were testing

[45:47] nuclear weapons, in some cases just a

[45:50] few miles from populated villages.

[45:53] Three generations of Kazakh peasants

[45:55] were exposed to massive quantity of

[45:58] nuclear radiation.

[46:00] The Semipalatinsk polygon test site is

[46:04] ringed by large collective farms of

[46:07] about 500,000 acres each, each with

[46:10] about 700 families.

[46:12] And the people from these farms are

[46:14] primarily herders sheep and horses, and

[46:18] they routinely

[46:19] to this day and throughout the testing

[46:21] period entered the test site, grazed

[46:24] their animals on the test site grounds,

[46:26] and

[46:27] even collected the hay from the test

[46:29] site.

[46:31] When the Soviet Union went to

[46:33] underground nuclear testing in 1963

[46:36] after the signing of the partial test

[46:37] ban treaty,

[46:39] they did not have the technology, at

[46:40] least this is how it was reported to me,

[46:43] to uh

[46:44] to do deep testing,

[46:46] so that they did very shallow nuclear

[46:49] explosions, which

[46:51] basically broke the earth and released a

[46:52] great deal of radioactive material

[46:54] directly into the atmosphere. They

[46:55] created craters that have now filled in

[46:58] as lakes. And this is one of the lakes

[47:00] very close to Sarzhal,

[47:02] the village of Sarzhal only about 10

[47:03] miles away.

[47:06] The fact that these lakes were created,

[47:08] what does this say about the

[47:11] precautions and the general safety of

[47:13] the tests that the Soviets conducted?

[47:17] I I would imagine that uh

[47:20] officially that they

[47:22] will would report that they took every

[47:25] precaution in order to ensure safety of

[47:28] the nuclear tests.

[47:30] I would also say that just from looking

[47:34] at the results of nuclear explosions on

[47:36] the outside of villages,

[47:38] that they were very cavalier in their

[47:41] attitude towards health and safety.

[47:43] I would say that also because I've spoke

[47:46] with military personnel

[47:48] who routinely go to lakes such as as

[47:51] this and have been told by military and

[47:53] scientific sources that they're

[47:54] perfectly safe. And yet I was able to

[47:57] take uh

[47:58] uh radiation readings at some of the

[48:00] lakes

[48:03] that indicate a

[48:05] radiation levels of 150 180 200 times

[48:09] normal background even 20 years 30 years

[48:13] after the time of detonation.

[48:17] No one yet knows exactly how many people

[48:20] have suffered as a result of the

[48:22] radiation. But especially in villages

[48:25] downwind of the test site, Lairger found

[48:28] compelling evidence that beginning with

[48:30] Stalin, Soviet authorities simply

[48:33] ignored the human cost of their nuclear

[48:35] program.

[48:37] Tell me about this man. Why why are his

[48:39] feet swollen?

[48:41] He was a herder. He's a from one of the

[48:43] collective farms near the test site. He

[48:46] routinely went on the test grounds.

[48:48] His extremities, of course, would be

[48:50] more exposed to the radiation than other

[48:52] parts of his body, his hands and his

[48:54] feet.

[48:56] He's dying of cancer now.

[48:59] He's a man in his 50s. As a young man,

[49:01] he would have experienced nuclear

[49:03] testing directly.