Nightline (ABC) - 1996-02-13

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] were announced today. Topping the list

[0:01] of nominees for Best Picture was the

[0:03] Scottish battlefield epic Braveheart

[0:06] from actor-director Mel Gibson. Also up

[0:08] for Best Picture, the space adventure

[0:10] Apollo 13. It received nine other

[0:12] nominations. Sense and Sensibility

[0:14] received seven nominations including

[0:16] Best Picture. Babe, the story of a pig

[0:18] who dreams of being a dog, was also

[0:20] nominated for Best Picture. The final

[0:21] nominee is The Postman, the first

[0:23] foreign language film nominated since

[0:25] 1973.

[0:27] Now, the nominees for Best Director are

[0:28] Mike Figgis for Leaving Las Vegas, Mel

[0:31] Gibson for Braveheart, Chris Noonan for

[0:33] Babe, The Postman's Michael Radford and

[0:35] Tim Robbins for Dead Man Walking.

[0:37] Nominees for Best Actress include

[0:40] Elisabeth Shue for in Leaving Las Vegas,

[0:42] Susan Sarandon in Dead Man Walking,

[0:44] Sharon Stone Casino, Meryl Streep The

[0:46] Bridges of Madison County, Emma Thompson

[0:48] for Sense and Sensibility. Nominees for

[0:51] Best Actor are Nicolas Cage Leaving Las

[0:53] Vegas, Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking,

[0:54] Richard Dreyfuss in Mr. Holland's Opus,

[0:57] Anthony Hopkins,

[0:59] >> [laughter]

[0:59] >> and Nick Nolte and

[1:01] Massimo Troisi in The Postman. The

[1:04] winners will be announced March 25th.

[1:06] Good night. Take care.

[1:13] >> February [music] 13th, 1996.

[1:17] Magic Johnson tests positive.

[1:21] Now, he's welcome on the court.

[1:26] American soldiers test positive.

[1:30] But Congress wants them out.

[1:33] Boxer Tommy Morrison tests positive.

[1:37] And he's forced from the ring.

[1:41] Reasonable risks or unreasonable fears?

[1:46] Tonight, sports, blood, and the specter

[1:49] of AIDS and anecdotal evidence. It's not

[1:52] the statistical probability of death

[1:54] that frightens us. If it were, we would

[1:57] stop drinking and smoking and driving.

[1:59] Each of those activities causes tens of

[2:01] thousands of deaths in this country

[2:03] every year.

[2:04] And look at how eager we were, for

[2:06] example, to deep-six the 55-mph speed

[2:09] limit just a few weeks back. Now, that

[2:11] was saving thousands of lives. But never

[2:14] get between an American and his right to

[2:16] drive fast. No, some of us are rationing

[2:20] our concern for the statistically remote

[2:22] possibility that a professional boxer,

[2:25] whose goal after all is to beat his

[2:27] opponent insensible, may instead pass on

[2:30] HIV if he has tested HIV positive.

[2:35] But if that were possible in boxing,

[2:36] wouldn't it also be possible in

[2:38] football, where smashmouth blocking is

[2:41] sometimes considered an art? And what,

[2:43] when all is said and done, made the

[2:45] folks in professional basketball change

[2:47] their minds about the danger of playing

[2:49] with someone who's tested HIV positive?

[2:52] Time, we thought, for another program on

[2:55] AIDS. Here's Nightline correspondent

[2:58] Chris Bury.

[3:01] >> And here comes Magic.

[3:06] >> The return of Magic Johnson seemed even

[3:08] more triumphant because his first

[3:11] comeback attempt ended in such a cloud

[3:13] of ignorance and fear. This time, Magic

[3:16] became a national poster boy of a savvy

[3:19] new sensibility and awareness about AIDS

[3:22] in sport and in society. It lasted less

[3:25] than 2 weeks.

[3:26] >> Former WBO heavyweight champion Tommy

[3:28] Morrison, who was scheduled to fight

[3:30] Arthur Weathers on tonight's fight card,

[3:32] was suspended by the Nevada State

[3:34] >> Over the weekend, boxer Tommy Morrison

[3:36] was suspended hours before his scheduled

[3:39] fight against Arthur Weathers in Las

[3:40] Vegas. His promoter, Tony Holden, broke

[3:43] the news.

[3:45] >> Tommy Morrison

[3:47] has tested positive for HIV.

[3:50] >> Last week, a new law that Republicans

[3:52] tacked on to a military spending bill

[3:55] demands the dismissal of all in the

[3:57] military known to have the virus that

[3:59] causes AIDS. Its author is Republican

[4:02] Robert Dornan.

[4:03] >> People who stuck a filthy needle in

[4:04] their arm, rolled up their white, khaki,

[4:07] or blue sleeve to stick a needle in

[4:10] their arm and get infected with the AIDS

[4:12] HIV virus,

[4:14] and we're going to give them an

[4:14] honorable discharge?

[4:16] >> Though President Clinton reluctantly

[4:18] signed the bill, his administration will

[4:20] not defend it in court.

[4:22] >> I think in in in today's society

[4:24] >> No wonder the country is still so

[4:27] confused.

[4:28] >> This is not necessarily a death

[4:30] sentence.

[4:31] Um Mhm. A high A significant percentage

[4:34] of people never progress to AIDS or

[4:36] problems.

[4:37] >> What it's going to take for people to

[4:38] wake up is

[4:40] uh Magic Johnson and Dennis Rodman going

[4:42] at it on the low post and Rodman

[4:44] catching an elbow in the mouth AND

[4:45] CATCHING HIV.

[4:50] >> FROM FRENETIC FANS to asphalt warriors,

[4:53] many remain unsure about athletics and

[4:56] AIDS.

[4:57] >> If you see the blood,

[4:59] uh

[5:00] if it's a bad cut, you know, I'll go in

[5:01] the field house, you know, I'll get some

[5:02] alcohol peroxide, pour it on it, and

[5:04] then I'm done with it.

[5:05] >> I have more fear going out at a club

[5:07] picking up some girl I don't know than

[5:09] playing basketball banging around with

[5:10] these guys, you know?

[5:11] >> In society, as in sports, as in

[5:13] Congress, much of the confusion about

[5:16] AIDS still stems from ignorance about

[5:18] how the disease is transmitted. But is

[5:21] the risk any greater on the playing

[5:23] field or on the battlefield than in any

[5:25] other walk of life?

[5:27] >> Carmelone, bam, right there with a right

[5:30] elbow.

[5:30] >> Well, ladies and gentlemen, there is a

[5:31] bad cut over the left eye

[5:34] of Richie Foster, a river of blood from

[5:37] >> Doug Weight with a body check. The Flyer

[5:39] is in the Rangers bench.

[5:41] >> And Galli is bleeding.

[5:42] >> Right, and after that play, Galli ends

[5:44] up cut.

[5:45] >> The transmission associated with sports

[5:48] is not measurable at this time. It is It

[5:50] is so low.

[5:52] The likelihood that transmission is

[5:55] going to occur from skin-to-skin

[5:57] contact, even with a little blood, is

[6:00] extremely low and very close to zero,

[6:03] but obviously not zero.

[6:05] >> Dr. Alfred Saah, an AIDS specialist at

[6:08] Johns Hopkins University, was enlisted

[6:10] to teach NBA players about the disease

[6:13] before Magic Johnson's return to the

[6:15] lake.

[6:16] >> The issue is not playing sports. The

[6:19] risk associated with HIV transmission

[6:21] among individuals who are going to be

[6:23] playing sports is going to be

[6:24] represented by their sexual activity or

[6:26] perhaps some of their drug use activity.

[6:28] It's not going to be from playing

[6:30] sports.

[6:32] >> But is the risk greater in some sports

[6:35] than others? Is it greater in the blood

[6:37] sports, boxing or wrestling for example,

[6:40] than it is in basketball?

[6:42] >> If there's any sport that we need to be

[6:44] careful about, it is boxing.

[6:46] And I think we should look to make sure

[6:48] that everything is done to minimize the

[6:51] potential for the spread of infectious

[6:53] diseases including HIV.

[6:58] >> At least seven professional boxers,

[7:00] including Tommy Morrison, are now known

[7:02] to be HIV positive. But boxing, like

[7:05] many sports, has no consistent policy.

[7:08] Only Nevada, Oregon, Arizona, and

[7:10] Washington test for AIDS. None of the

[7:12] others does, including the three states

[7:15] with the most professional boxing, New

[7:17] Jersey, New York, and California.

[7:19] >> The California Athletic Commission has

[7:20] sought legislation for the last 3 years

[7:23] and have been frustrated because the

[7:25] legislators get scared off because of

[7:27] the issue of political correctness

[7:30] surrounding AIDS and HIV testing. Uh

[7:33] here we're looking at the benefit and

[7:35] the health and safety of the boxer.

[7:37] >> But in boxing or any other sport,

[7:39] testing for HIV is no guarantee.

[7:42] >> The issue has to be that our athletes

[7:44] shouldn't be bleeding while they're

[7:45] participating in sports. It's up to

[7:48] boxing to decide whether or not they are

[7:50] going to have such an event occur with

[7:53] blood splashing all over the place as

[7:55] opposed to a boxing match to determine

[7:58] who's a better boxer than

[8:00] who can cut somebody better.

[8:02] >> In the NBA, sports writers now call that

[8:04] the Magic Johnson rule. Bleeding players

[8:07] must leave the game. In football,

[8:10] trainers must wear gloves when treating

[8:12] bleeding players, but no rules dictate

[8:14] when the wounded must leave. The Olympic

[8:16] Committee rejected blanket testing for

[8:18] HIV even after Greg Louganis revealed he

[8:22] was infected during his diving accident

[8:24] in 1988. Now, individual Olympic sports

[8:27] can make their own rules.

[8:29] >> Oh, MAGIC A HEAD AND SHOULDER FAKE. A

[8:32] STANDING OVATION. Listen to the crowd.

[8:34] >> [cheering]

[8:35] >> In the latest resurrection of his

[8:37] career, it is Magic Johnson's hope that

[8:40] his new found acceptance in the NBA will

[8:42] raise the public's tolerance for all

[8:44] those with HIV. In a letter to

[8:47] Republican leaders in Congress, Johnson

[8:49] pleaded to quote stop ignorance, fear,

[8:52] and prejudice from forcing HIV-positive

[8:55] military personnel to retire from the

[8:57] jobs they love. Petty Officer Dwayne

[9:00] Amerson, who would be forced out of the

[9:01] Navy because he is HIV-positive, is

[9:04] grateful.

[9:05] >> It has shown that they are healthy

[9:07] persons that can go on and work

[9:10] and perform their duties.

[9:13] And I

[9:15] you know, I

[9:17] give him a round of applause for that.

[9:19] >> In this country, according to leading

[9:21] AIDS researchers, there is not a single

[9:23] case of any athlete, amateur or

[9:25] professional, infecting another with the

[9:28] AIDS virus during any sport. So, the

[9:30] concern seems far out of proportion to

[9:33] the risk, though the confusion may be

[9:35] inevitable. This is Chris Bury for

[9:38] Nightline in Washington.

[9:41] >> When we come back, we'll try to sort out

[9:42] some of that confusion over contracting

[9:44] AIDS with a leading AIDS specialist, a

[9:47] medical advisor to professional

[9:49] basketball players, and an advocate for

[9:52] AIDS testing. [music]

[9:55] >> This is ABC News Nightline, brought to

[9:58] you by Ford and your Ford dealer.

[10:06] >> I will build a motorcar for the great

[10:09] multitude, constructed of the best

[10:11] materials by the best men and women to

[10:14] be hired. Any person making a good

[10:17] salary will be able to own one and enjoy

[10:21] with his family the blessings of hours

[10:24] of pleasure in God's great open spaces.

[10:35] >> United Artists proudly presents the most

[10:38] celebrated [music] love story of our

[10:39] time.

[10:40] >> I am not here to force my twisted soul

[10:43] into your life.

[10:44] >> Leaving Las Vegas, [music] nominated for

[10:47] four Academy Awards, including Best

[10:50] Actor, Nicolas Cage,

[10:52] Best Actress, Elisabeth Shue, [music]

[10:55] and Best Director, Mike Figgis.

[10:57] >> I like it here with you.

[10:58] >> Stay for a while.

[11:00] >> Leaving Las [music] Vegas, a love story,

[11:03] rated R. Now playing.

[11:07] >> Wednesday, if you're a parent, something

[11:10] you need to see.

[11:11] >> If I was famous, I could kill anybody

[11:13] that I wanted and I wouldn't get in

[11:14] trouble.

[11:15] >> How your children really learn right

[11:17] from wrong. A parent's guide [music] to

[11:18] kids and their values, primetime

[11:20] Wednesday.

[11:24] >> We've all been through a [music] lot

[11:25] during this last week. If the floods

[11:27] didn't get you, chances are the slides

[11:28] did. I'm Jeff Chinola. [music] Now it's

[11:31] time to take a look back at the

[11:32] astounding stories that happened right

[11:34] before our eyes. Thursday night at 9:00,

[11:36] [music] watch a Channel 2 News special,

[11:38] The River's Rage. Meet the heroes of the

[11:40] flood and the victims struggling to put

[11:42] their lives back together and see the

[11:43] powerful pictures that tell their story

[11:46] so well. Watch The River's Rage,

[11:48] Thursday night at 9:00 on KETU, the

[11:50] spirit [music] of the Northwest.

[11:54] >> When I agreed to this motherhood thing,

[11:56] nobody told me I'd [music] be doing

[11:57] everything in triplicate. Around here,

[12:00] nothing's quick or easy except for my US

[12:02] West Direct Yellow Pages. It's got an

[12:04] index in the back to find the right

[12:05] [music] headings. And when I need

[12:07] something right away, like an ear

[12:09] doctor, it's got these specialty guides.

[12:12] I use my Yellow Pages all the time now.

[12:13] It's quick. It's easy.

[12:15] >> Daddy's home.

[12:17] >> And it's there when you need it.

[12:20] It's [music] the one that gets used, US

[12:22] West Direct.

[12:26] >> Joining us now from our Washington

[12:28] bureau, Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the

[12:30] country's leading AIDS researchers and

[12:32] director of the National Institute of

[12:34] Allergy and Infectious Diseases. From

[12:36] our Los Angeles bureau, Dr. Michael

[12:38] Johnson, head of the AIDS education

[12:40] program for the NBA Players Association.

[12:44] And from San Jose, California, our

[12:46] affiliate there, KNTV, Bill Eastman,

[12:49] chairman of the California Athletic

[12:51] Commission. Dr. Fauci, you and I have

[12:53] been talking about AIDS and the

[12:54] transmission of AIDS for a good many

[12:56] years now. I think one of the reasons

[12:58] that people are still as concerned as

[13:00] they are is because over the years some

[13:03] of what we have learned has changed.

[13:05] There was a time when we did not think,

[13:07] for example, that AIDS could be passed

[13:09] on between heterosexual partners. So, is

[13:13] there perhaps a possibility that we may

[13:15] be wrong also about how AIDS is passed

[13:19] on or how the HIV is passed on

[13:21] uh between and among athletes?

[13:24] >> Uh I think not. Uh even though there was

[13:26] misconceptions about heterosexual

[13:28] transmissibility, the fact that it was a

[13:31] a sexually transmitted disease

[13:34] made it very clear that that was a

[13:35] possibility. What we're talking about

[13:37] now is really no change at all in our

[13:40] understanding of how the virus is

[13:41] transmitted. It certainly can be

[13:43] transmitted by blood and blood products,

[13:46] but we're talking about a very unusual

[13:48] situation that's the subject tonight

[13:50] about blood from one person on a

[13:53] potential cut of another. That has

[13:55] always been known as a finite

[13:57] possibility, but as we've seen in the in

[13:59] the piece, a very very very unlikely

[14:01] situation.

[14:01] >> Well, actually, that's a that's a

[14:02] situation that I keep hearing doctors

[14:04] talk about. What I see is much more

[14:06] likely is let us say blood that is

[14:08] sprayed into the eyes or into the mouth,

[14:12] let's say if someone has a cut inside

[14:14] his mouth. And Dr. Johnson, I'm sure

[14:15] that this is a question you've been

[14:17] asked by some of the NBA players who

[14:19] must have been concerned. What are the

[14:21] chances of that happening?

[14:23] >> Well, I think the chances are very very

[14:24] remote. They're so remote that you

[14:26] really can't measure them. I mean, we

[14:28] first of all explain that there's no HIV

[14:30] in sweat. We explain that the skin is an

[14:33] excellent barrier against HIV. And the

[14:35] only theoretical risk would be two cuts

[14:38] that were to come together.

[14:39] >> No, maybe I'm not making or or phrasing

[14:42] my question as as well as I should be.

[14:44] Let us say for the sake of argument that

[14:46] I have blood on my arm, a cut on my arm.

[14:49] And I give someone a forearm and blood

[14:52] either splashes into his open eyes or

[14:55] into his mouth, and he may have a cut

[14:57] inside his mouth. Is it not

[14:58] theoretically possible that HIV could be

[15:01] transmitted?

[15:02] >> It is theoretically possible, but it

[15:04] remains incredibly unlikely and so

[15:06] unlikely that we really can't even

[15:08] measure that remote risk. And one of the

[15:10] reasons that we explain in our education

[15:12] is because because cuts bleed out. They

[15:14] don't bleed in.

[15:15] And so it's unlikely that a cut would

[15:17] absorb enough blood to lead to

[15:19] infection.

[15:20] >> And and even if it came in through the

[15:22] eyes, in other words, if you've ever

[15:23] taken eye drops, very quickly you taste

[15:26] something in the back of your throat.

[15:27] So, there are little channels that move

[15:29] into the back of your throat. Could not

[15:31] blood be transmitted that way?

[15:32] >> Yeah, the mucous membranes are not the

[15:34] same barrier that skin are and there is

[15:36] a theoretical risk, but there would have

[15:38] to be enough of a dose or i.e. enough

[15:41] blood in the right place and stay there

[15:43] for long enough to lead to infection.

[15:45] So, all those things together make it a

[15:47] very remote possibility.

[15:48] >> Mr. Eastman, what's the concern?

[15:51] >> The concern is that on my part that

[15:53] California has more boxing matches than

[15:55] any place in the world and our job is to

[15:58] protect the professional boxer. Uh my

[16:00] concern is just as you stated, Mr.

[16:03] Koppel, that the co-mingling of blood,

[16:05] the co-mingling of blood and mucus

[16:07] uh

[16:08] poses a threat. I don't care to hear

[16:10] about statistics because nobody knows

[16:12] about it and the medical community has

[16:15] been wrong for a great number of years

[16:17] now and we could talk chapter and verse

[16:19] about that. Certainly, we're learning

[16:21] more now, but if there is risk and there

[16:24] is risk with the co-mingling of blood in

[16:26] a boxing ring, then I think our

[16:28] obligation is to test and to safeguard

[16:31] the boxers.

[16:32] >> Let me let me try and use before we get

[16:34] to our two medical experts here, let me

[16:36] just sort of fall back on a little bit

[16:38] of common logic. If we were really

[16:40] concerned about protecting the health

[16:42] and welfare of boxers, we probably

[16:43] wouldn't let them beat one another's

[16:45] brains out like that all the time.

[16:46] >> You're absolutely right.

[16:47] >> not exactly a sport that is designed for

[16:49] the welfare of the athlete.

[16:51] >> You're absolutely right and that's why

[16:53] there is a commission in most states and

[16:55] that is to be able to best safeguard the

[16:58] athletes as we can. If we do not have

[17:01] boxing legally, it's going to exist on

[17:03] barges and in warehouses like it did in

[17:05] the 1920s. Uh we need to control boxing,

[17:08] we have to monitor it closely and

[17:10] certainly no doctor and nobody in their

[17:12] right mind would recommend somebody to

[17:14] become a professional boxer to trade

[17:16] punches, co-mingle blood and mucus with

[17:18] one another. But it's there and it's

[17:20] reality and we must deal with it.

[17:22] >> Well, I I guess we are now going to have

[17:24] to talk about the statistical

[17:26] probability and and Dr. Fauci, if if you

[17:29] had the responsibility for a particular

[17:31] fighter who has tested HIV positive and

[17:35] the responsibility for the man against

[17:37] whom he was going to fight, could you in

[17:39] all conscience say, "Sure, go ahead.

[17:41] There's no chance."

[17:42] >> Well, again, you'd never be able to say

[17:44] there's no chance, but I think it gets

[17:46] back to what we said before. The chance

[17:48] is infinitesimal small. It is so small

[17:51] as in many respects to be

[17:52] non-measurable. If you want to be 100%

[17:55] risk-free, I think the point you made is

[17:57] a very very valid point. There are so

[17:59] many other things that are that could

[18:02] work to the detriment of a person. The

[18:04] chances of something falling from the

[18:06] ceiling and hitting a boxer and and

[18:09] injuring them are probably greater than

[18:11] the transmissibility by by blood of HIV.

[18:14] And certainly the point that you made

[18:15] about the damage to the brain of a boxer

[18:18] in the ring so far exceeds by by an

[18:21] extraordinary magnitude the the

[18:23] possibility of there being transmission

[18:26] that I wouldn't be considering I mean

[18:27] this would almost be a non-issue. I'd be

[18:29] worried about the boxer for other

[18:31] reasons than for HIV transmissibility.

[18:33] >> Gentlemen, we have to take a break. Dr.

[18:35] Johnson, when we come back I'd I'd I'd

[18:36] like to hear what you were hearing from

[18:39] members of the NBA and and how it is you

[18:41] think you were able to convince them

[18:42] that the risks they face are small

[18:45] enough that they have agreed to accept

[18:46] Magic Johnson

[18:48] even though he is testing HIV positive.

[18:50] We'll be back in a moment.

[18:57] >> [music]

[19:09] >> Introducing the new full-time four-wheel

[19:12] drive Lexus LX 450.

[19:20] It's everything a Lexus is

[19:22] and everything a Lexus isn't.

[19:25] >> Thanks to Sprint Business, there's a

[19:27] company who does more business in skis.

[19:31] >> Sprint gave us an edge.

[19:32] >> Sprint worked with Volant and brought

[19:34] them real solutions to help them get

[19:36] ahead so they can check orders online

[19:38] from anywhere and promote new products

[19:41] through video conferencing. Now, they do

[19:43] business a whole new way.

[19:45] >> And sales are really soaring.

[19:49] >> We'll help your business do more

[19:50] business. Call Sprint Business.

[19:56] >> Next time, Elvis weddings, Elmo

[19:58] weddings, drive-thru weddings.

[20:00] >> Hey, you kids want fries with that?

[20:02] >> Plus Bette Midler.

[20:03] >> Start your Valentine's [music] Day

[20:05] >> with Good Morning America.

[20:10] >> A vehicle's wheels can wind up doing a

[20:12] lot of the steering. That's why you need

[20:14] the kind of wheels you'll find on a new

[20:16] Honda Accord. We spent years developing

[20:18] our special four-wheel double wishbone

[20:20] suspension for a smoother ride and

[20:23] better control even over things that no

[20:25] one can control.

[20:27] Double wishbone suspension, one more

[20:29] reason you can count on Honda and your

[20:31] Honda dealer.

[20:32] And now you can lease an Accord LX for

[20:34] just 229 a month for 24 months.

[20:39] >> Almost every day a [music] new study

[20:41] comes out about health and fitness. Is

[20:43] coffee good or bad for you? Just how

[20:45] much exercise should you get? Keeping up

[20:48] can be confusing. I'm Paula Gannuscio

[20:50] from Channel [music] 2 News. The goal of

[20:51] our 2-year health reports is to cut

[20:53] through the confusion to help separate

[20:55] fact from fad and to give you the

[20:57] information you need to stay healthy.

[20:59] [music]

[21:00] Keep that healthy spirit with Channel

[21:02] 2's 2-year health reports only on KATU

[21:04] [music] Spirit 2, the spirit of the

[21:06] Northwest.

[21:09] >> [snorts]

[21:09] >> We'll never forget the flood of '96. The

[21:11] people and pictures are too memorable.

[21:13] Save the images for your children and

[21:15] grandchildren. Set your VCR for Flood,

[21:18] the story in pictures. The best images

[21:20] of the spirited Northwest will be on

[21:21] Channel 2 News all this week at 5:00.

[21:24] >> You wouldn't buy [music] a new car with

[21:26] old tires. That's the same reason we

[21:28] want to show our customers a new pair of

[21:31] shoes with every purchase. [music]

[21:33] That way when he leaves our store, he'll

[21:35] look good from head to toe. I guarantee

[21:38] it.

[21:40] >> And we're back with Dr. Anthony Fauci,

[21:42] Dr. Michael Johnson, and Bill Eastman.

[21:44] Um Dr. Johnson, as I said just before

[21:46] the break, uh you must have had some

[21:48] fairly intense questioning that that you

[21:50] underwent as you went around the NBA.

[21:53] >> Yeah, there've been a lot There's been a

[21:54] lot of discussion about it and I The

[21:55] program, as you know, has been in

[21:57] operation since 1991. So, we've had many

[22:00] sessions and many opportunities to

[22:02] discuss this with the players and their

[22:03] families. And I think one of the key

[22:05] issues here is that the education has

[22:07] been ongoing, repetitive, and has um

[22:10] gone about it in a bunch of different

[22:12] ways with role plays, interactive

[22:13] exercises. So, I think that uh it's

[22:16] unrealistic to think that everybody is

[22:18] going to get educated with one session

[22:20] or one event. And I think the ongoing

[22:22] nature of it has been telling. And I

[22:24] think a good analogy for that is among

[22:26] healthcare workers. I mean, many, many

[22:28] years ago, there were a lot of doctors

[22:30] and nurses that refused to take care of

[22:31] patients living with HIV. And that's

[22:34] virtually unheard of now. And I think

[22:35] that progressive and ongoing education

[22:37] that healthcare professionals have been

[22:39] exposed to has led to a situation now

[22:41] where that's virtually unheard of.

[22:42] >> What was the greatest concern of the of

[22:44] the wives of NBA players?

[22:47] >> Well, I think the the wives, just as the

[22:48] players, just as anybody else that we

[22:50] interact with in education, everybody

[22:52] wants to know how it's transmitted, how

[22:54] it's not transmitted, ways to prevent

[22:57] transmission, and HIV testing, and that

[22:59] whole issue of the window period comes

[23:00] up as well.

[23:01] >> Uh

[23:02] Mr. Eastman, when we heard you before in

[23:05] the in the pre-recorded comment that you

[23:07] made in Chris Burry's piece, you seemed

[23:09] to be suggesting that your your feeling

[23:11] is that we we are getting more political

[23:14] correctness here perhaps than than

[23:16] medical precision. Is that a fair way of

[23:18] putting your point?

[23:19] >> That's a fair way of putting the point,

[23:21] Ted, and it goes beyond that. It has

[23:23] scared off the political correctness has

[23:25] scared off

[23:26] politicians to the point where in past

[23:28] years we haven't been able to get

[23:29] legislation out of the California

[23:30] Assembly or Senate. Uh, hopefully this

[23:33] year I believe they're going to be

[23:34] heroes cuz we've changed a lot of those

[23:36] people.

[23:36] >> Legislation on what now?

[23:38] >> On testing for HIV just like Nevada and

[23:41] three other states do.

[23:42] >> In in the field of boxing.

[23:43] >> Yes, sir.

[23:44] >> Uh, would you recommend it in

[23:46] professional football for example?

[23:48] >> I wouldn't uh get into professional

[23:50] football. I think there's lesser risk.

[23:52] You could take a continuum all the way

[23:54] from golf to boxing and I don't think

[23:56] anybody would argue that golf is near

[23:58] the bottom end of the continuum and

[24:01] certainly boxing is right at the top

[24:03] end.

[24:03] >> So again, Dr. Fauci, I come back then to

[24:06] the to the final point. If we are

[24:07] talking here about statistics, the the

[24:10] statistical probability, you'd say a

[24:13] better chance that the uh that the

[24:15] lighting fixture is going to come down

[24:17] and fall on the fighter's head, but in

[24:19] terms of being able to offer any

[24:21] guarantee, any assurance,

[24:23] >> No, you can't. You absolutely can't and

[24:25] it would be foolish to say that there's

[24:26] absolutely no chance. There's a finite

[24:28] chance, but as we've said, it's a very

[24:30] very small chance, infinitesimally

[24:33] small.

[24:33] >> I think it's also important to point out

[24:35] that there really the whole idea, the

[24:37] whole concept of zero risk is something

[24:39] that just doesn't exist. I mean, we have

[24:42] risk when we walk out of our door that

[24:43] we'll fall on the sidewalk and crack our

[24:45] heads, get hit by lightning. The the

[24:47] risk if the risk in a sport was

[24:49] estimated to be say one in a billion or

[24:51] whatever some of the numbers you hear

[24:52] floating around, that's essentially zero

[24:55] and there's no activity that's

[24:56] absolutely zero risk. So this whole idea

[24:58] about reassuring us that there's zero

[25:00] risk and that mandatory testing

[25:02] eliminates that risk, any risk that

[25:04] there would be, is really just not true.

[25:06] >> Uh Mr. Eastman, you're looking for that

[25:08] kind of assurance though, aren't you?

[25:09] >> No, I'm not because even with testing

[25:11] there is not zero risk. And we we hear

[25:14] about fear, paranoia, and everything

[25:16] else about HIV, and that's not what this

[25:18] is about. This is a bloodletting sport.

[25:21] We want to make protect take

[25:22] protections. This is our prophylactic.

[25:24] At least we're getting some protection

[25:26] from the risk that does exist. The The

[25:29] idea of something falling and hitting on

[25:31] a boxer's head being more dangerous than

[25:33] HIV is is absolutely ludicrous. And uh

[25:37] we've heard from the medical community

[25:39] >> I don't see why that's ludicrous. I

[25:40] don't see it as ludicrous at all.

[25:41] >> Well, I can explain. I can explain why

[25:43] it is. Because we don't have enough

[25:45] history. They didn't close the bathhouse

[25:47] >> Well, there's there's been millions and

[25:48] millions of cases of HIV infection

[25:50] across the world.

[25:51] >> that.

[25:52] >> And and there's there's been studies

[25:53] done on thousands and thousands of

[25:54] household contacts. And it's clear that

[25:57] HIV is not transmitted in

[25:58] >> And Cal/OSHA keeps things from falling

[26:00] out of ceilings onto prizefighters'

[26:02] heads. The point is the medical

[26:04] community has felt their way through

[26:07] this, and we didn't think we could get

[26:08] it from dentists before. Now we find out

[26:11] we can.

[26:12] >> think well, no, I don't think that

[26:13] that's an accepted fact at all. But I

[26:15] think it is very important as to mention

[26:16] OSHA in this because the NBA, as you

[26:18] mentioned earlier Ted, has put in rules

[26:20] as most major sports have, which

[26:23] basically mirror infection control

[26:24] practices in a hospital. And that's a

[26:26] very reasonable thing to do to lower

[26:28] what is already an incredibly low risk

[26:29] even less. And I think boxing does have

[26:32] a tough job on its hands to see how the

[26:34] sport can adapt to controlling blood in

[26:37] in a more effective way. But mandatory

[26:40] testing is not the the sort of easy

[26:42] quick fix solution that it seems like it

[26:43] is.

[26:44] >> All right, gentlemen, uh we have just

[26:46] about run out of time. So I thank you. I

[26:48] I I guess as long as we are only talking

[26:51] about boxing now, it's still a a

[26:53] relatively small number of people who

[26:55] are going to be involved in it. And to

[26:57] the degree that progress is being made

[26:59] in basketball and in other sports,

[27:01] uh maybe there is a great deal of hope

[27:03] after all. I thank all of you for

[27:04] joining us this evening. Dr. Johnson, uh

[27:06] Mr. Eastman, Dr. Fauci, thank you.

[27:09] >> Thank you, Ted.

[27:09] >> I'll be back in a moment.

[27:14] >> My daughter used to think fish [music]

[27:16] just came from the supermarket.

[27:20] >> You know, my son used to wait for

[27:22] rainbows, but now we go looking for

[27:24] them.

[27:25] >> [music]

[27:29] >> I know they learn all about the world in

[27:31] school, but now we can show it to them.

[27:34] >> Isn't it amazing [music] how opening one

[27:36] door can open up so many others?

[27:39] Ford Explorer, because the world's too

[27:41] big to be left unexplored.

[27:44] >> 37490041

[27:47] >> The account code.

[27:48] >> 963406

[27:50] >> The fax.

[27:51] >> 697364

[27:53] >> Cellular.

[27:54] >> 88926801

[27:56] >> Since the last thing you need is one

[27:57] more number to remember, MasterCard is

[28:00] developing the single-digit PIN code.

[28:02] Someday a computer chip in your card

[28:03] will recognize your unique mark, so your

[28:06] personal identification code is

[28:08] personal. It's how the future will be

[28:10] paid for. MasterCard, it's smart money.

[28:13] >> Something happened on Poor Farm Road.

[28:17] A murder. Jacob was seen with the girl.

[28:20] A suspect.

[28:22] >> Jacob was innocent. Someone else killed

[28:23] that girl.

[28:24] >> A shadow of a doubt.

[28:26] >> Suppose Jacob were followed by someone

[28:28] with reason to be jealous.

[28:30] >> These 12 people decide the truth.

[28:32] >> I don't bargain for my son.

[28:34] >> Meryl Streep, Liam Neeson.

[28:37] Before and After. Rated PG-13. Starts

[28:41] Friday, [music] February 23rd.

[28:43] >> Aces the place in Benicia, California.

[28:48] Ace is the place in [music and singing]

[28:50] Pine Bluff, Louisiana.

[28:52] Wherever you go, Ace is the place with

[28:55] the helpful hardware folks.

[28:59] >> How does turkey chili sound?

[29:01] >> You're talking about Hormel turkey

[29:02] chili, right?

[29:03] >> Well, how does it taste?

[29:05] >> You like turkey? You like chili? You

[29:07] like Hormel turkey chili?

[29:09] >> Nothing beats a bowl of Hormel chili, no

[29:11] matter which Hormel chili it is.

[29:26] >> Ask people how they feel about going to

[29:28] the bank for a loan.

[29:32] >> Oh.

[29:39] >> There's a little Mr. Lucky in all of us.

[29:49] >> Hmm.

[29:50] >> Spirit Mountain, 60 miles west of

[29:52] Portland.

[29:54] >> We were 23. Jim had a good [music] job,

[29:56] so did I. Life was good. Money, no

[29:59] problem. Then came Justin, Jennifer, and

[30:02] Jared. Life is very good. Money, kind of

[30:05] tight, but [music] we still eat out a

[30:06] few times a week at Izzy's. You see, at

[30:09] Izzy's, we get all [music] this

[30:13] for one incredibly low price.

[30:15] >> [music]

[30:15] >> And seconds are always on us.

[30:20] >> Life is good.

[30:24] >> Shop United Furniture Warehouse.

[30:26] >> the exact same sofa [music] bed in

[30:27] another well-known store at for over

[30:29] $400 more.

[30:31] I'll be back to United Furniture

[30:32] Warehouse again when I need more

[30:33] furniture, definitely.

[30:35] >> United Furniture Warehouse [music]