Nightline (ABC) - 1999-07-28

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:01] July 28th, 1999.

[0:08] >> Even in a city accustomed to protests,

[0:10] members of the Chinese Fallon movement

[0:13] stand out.

[0:17] >> The Chinese government fears them and

[0:19] has jailed quite a few of them precisely

[0:22] because there are so many of them,

[0:25] millions of followers of this man.

[0:29] who preaches a spiritual message of

[0:32] healing and fitness.

[0:34] >> People feel frustrated so they look for

[0:36] answers elsewhere um apart from what the

[0:39] party and the government uh have to

[0:41] offer. I believe that this organization

[0:44] could be a serious threat um to the the

[0:48] rulership of the Communist Party in

[0:50] China. And um I think that they see this

[0:53] as a fight for the minds and souls and

[0:56] hearts of of of people in China.

[0:58] >> Tonight, the Fallon Gong. How great a

[1:02] threat to the communists grip on China.

[1:10] From ABC News,

[1:15] this is Night Line.

[1:18] Reporting from Washington, Ted CPell.

[1:23] >> Here's the problem. The Chinese

[1:25] government does not have a very good

[1:27] reputation for openness, nor to be

[1:29] blunt, do they deserve one. They are

[1:32] secretive, sometimes to the point of

[1:34] paranoia, and they tend to be repressive

[1:36] in the face of even the slightest

[1:38] dissent. So when we in this country hear

[1:41] stories of the Chinese government

[1:42] cracking down on what is consistently

[1:45] being described as a perfectly harmless

[1:47] movement that has its roots in Buddhism,

[1:51] believes in meditation, deep breathing,

[1:53] stylized exercise, we tend to take that

[1:56] at face value. That is after all just

[1:58] the sort of reaction we would expect

[2:00] from the Chinese government. Only as

[2:03] Henry Kissinger once famously observed,

[2:05] even paranoids have enemies. And this

[2:08] time the Chinese government may in fact

[2:10] have something legitimate to be worried

[2:12] about numbers. For one, the Fallon Gong

[2:16] movement, and you'll be hearing a lot

[2:17] more about them in a moment, apparently

[2:20] does number in the millions. Its

[2:21] membership is almost by definition less

[2:24] than content with the way things are in

[2:27] China these days. Similar movements in

[2:29] the past, even those that had no

[2:31] political motives to begin with,

[2:33] developed and then became real threats

[2:36] to the existing authorities at the time.

[2:39] And if some of the things that fallen

[2:41] gang followers are said to believe is

[2:44] what they really believe, then they are

[2:46] not all dealing from a full deck either.

[2:48] So keep an open mind as we begin our

[2:50] broadcast tonight with this report from

[2:53] ABC's Jim Williams in Beijing.

[3:02] In the mornings, I get up to go to

[3:03] practice side and do my movement

[3:07] then come back to the office and the

[3:09] work and uh and you know that's that's

[3:11] my day

[3:14] actually. It changed me a lot.

[3:16] >> They are quiet and appear peaceful. Yet

[3:19] one of the world's superpowers sees them

[3:21] as threatening.

[3:23] And now in China, when members of

[3:25] Fallong goon meditate and exercise, they

[3:28] cannot do so in public. For nearly two

[3:31] weeks, China's government has been

[3:32] rounding up thousands of Fallon members,

[3:35] a group that could have as many as 60

[3:37] million followers here. The government

[3:40] confiscated and destroyed their books

[3:42] and tapes and called them an evil and

[3:44] dangerous cult. Since last week, Fallong

[3:47] has been officially outlawed. Master

[3:49] Lee's teaching is asking people to be

[3:51] you know and nice person good person do

[3:54] good deeds you know we never strictly

[3:57] not involved in any politics you know or

[4:00] state affairs so I don't see why there's

[4:04] a reason for them so scared

[4:07] >> fallong was started just 7 years ago by

[4:10] a former Chinese soldier and trumpet

[4:12] player

[4:14] >> 48-year-old Lee Hunger borrowed from

[4:16] Buddhism and Taoism but he has also been

[4:19] quoted as saying extraterrestrial beings

[4:22] control men. Some of his followers say

[4:24] he can harness cosmic forces to cure

[4:27] cancer and heal the blind. In more

[4:30] recent interviews, Lee, who lives in New

[4:32] York City, has made no such claims.

[4:36] I am only teaching people to practice

[4:38] for healing and fitness, Lee says, to be

[4:40] more noble people. So, it cannot really

[4:43] be called an evil religion. In China,

[4:46] Lee has found many eager followers. The

[4:49] country's changing economy has created

[4:51] great wealth for some, but left many

[4:54] others behind. The communist government

[4:57] can no longer claim to take care of all

[4:59] its people. Thousands of government

[5:02] factories have closed. Many workers are

[5:04] now without jobs, health benefits, or

[5:07] even pensions. They've lost hope that

[5:09] the government can improve their lives.

[5:11] So, they're looking elsewhere. Many of

[5:14] the displaced have turned to Lee Honggh.

[5:17] >> He says that the world is in a terrible

[5:18] situation and it's close to catastrophe.

[5:21] It's about to collapse and the only way

[5:23] that you can prevent that from happening

[5:25] is to follow his ideology, to follow his

[5:28] beliefs and to in many ways rally around

[5:30] him.

[5:31] >> Lee claims to have no interest in

[5:33] politics, but his followers have staged

[5:36] demonstrations throughout China seeking

[5:38] official recognition from the

[5:40] government. They have an incredible

[5:42] power of mobilization. This man has

[5:45] proved that through email, through

[5:47] internet from outside of China, he can

[5:50] put 10,000 people outside Jung Nanghai

[5:53] without the Chinese government knowing

[5:55] anything about it.

[5:57] >> That silent protest in April outside the

[6:00] compound where China's leaders live and

[6:02] work alarmed President Jean Zamin. And

[6:05] therefore um Jaoin fears that if he

[6:07] doesn't take drastic action now there's

[6:09] a possibility that after a few years the

[6:11] fallenong uh will become really very

[6:14] powerful.

[6:15] >> China's leaders were shocked to learn

[6:16] that fallong's membership was so large

[6:19] and so diverse. It not only included the

[6:22] poor and the unemployed but

[6:24] professionals and to the government's

[6:26] horror communist party officials.

[6:29] Altogether thousands were detained. so

[6:32] many they had to be held in stadiums.

[6:35] Authorities are threatening to charge

[6:37] the group's leaders with trying to

[6:39] overthrow the government.

[6:41] >> China has justified its crackdown,

[6:43] charging the group has brainwashed its

[6:46] followers. State-run television has

[6:48] shown people describing how Fong ruined

[6:51] their lives. This man said his wife was

[6:54] so obsessed with the group's prediction

[6:55] that the world would end, she killed

[6:57] their child and herself.

[7:01] The government's actions have outraged

[7:03] human rights groups. For them, it is a

[7:06] reminder of the Tianaan Square crackdown

[7:08] 10 years ago. Daiqing spent 10 months in

[7:11] jail for sympathizing with the

[7:13] protesters.

[7:16] This is the third generation of this

[7:18] government. She says they should have

[7:20] new ways to handle problems. Instead,

[7:23] they are using the same old tactics they

[7:25] used in the 1950s and60s to deal with

[7:28] peaceful demonstrations. During the last

[7:31] century, the Taiping and Boxer

[7:33] rebellions, which grew out of cults,

[7:35] nearly toppled theQing dynasty. Today's

[7:37] Chinese leaders, ever mindful of their

[7:40] history, take Fong very seriously.

[7:44] >> We need to look at this and see to what

[7:46] extent the Communist Party sees this as

[7:48] a major threat to its legitimacy and to

[7:51] its rule. And if it can't control this

[7:54] organization, then it could then the

[7:55] whole country could be in real trouble.

[7:57] And yet by banning fangong, China could

[8:00] be creating an opposition movement that

[8:02] might become increasingly resentful and

[8:04] hostile.

[8:05] >> In spite of the drastic measures being

[8:07] taken, um this will be a long drawn out

[8:10] um tug of war between uh the authorities

[8:13] and the fallen gong followers. Um which

[8:16] may give rise to um a series of social

[8:19] unrest.

[8:21] >> This was once a familiar site all over

[8:23] China. Now the country's fastest growing

[8:26] spiritual movement has for the moment

[8:29] been driven underground for Night Line.

[8:32] This is Jim Williams in Beijing.

[8:36] Later we'll be joined by an official of

[8:38] the Chinese government. But when we come

[8:40] back, a conversation I recorded earlier

[8:42] this evening with a spokesman for the

[8:44] founder of Fallon Gong.

[8:49] This is ABC News Night Line brought to

[8:52] you by Toyota.

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[10:51] >> Bobby, breakfast.

[10:53] >> Hey, wake up. Wake up. You sleepy.

[10:56] >> Bobby, breakfast.

[10:58] >> Get up. Get up. Get out of bed.

[11:03] >> For breakfast,

[11:04] >> cheer up. Cheer up. The sun is red.

[11:07] >> Oh, mom.

[11:08] >> Love, laugh, and be happy.

[11:10] >> New Lunchables, pancakes, or waffles. No

[11:13] need to heat them. Just get up and eat

[11:15] them.

[11:15] >> Thanks, Mom.

[11:16] >> Be happy.

[11:17] >> Lunchables. Make fun of lunch and

[11:19] breakfast.

[11:24] And joining us now from our New York

[11:26] bureau, Arping Jang, who serves as an

[11:28] interpreter and spokesman for Master

[11:30] Lee, the founder of Fulangong. Um, I

[11:34] must tell you, I am a little bit

[11:35] confused and maybe I'm trapped between

[11:38] some of the propaganda that the Chinese

[11:39] government has been putting out and

[11:41] reality. So, help me with reality here.

[11:44] Do you all believe those of you who are

[11:47] who are practitioners of fallong that

[11:51] medical care traditional medical care be

[11:53] it Chinese or western is not necessary?

[11:57] Uh we never say that that hospitals

[12:00] cannot heal illnesses. The Chinese

[12:02] government fabricate stories in the

[12:04] videape to viciously viciously slander

[12:07] mass lee the founder of fallenong and

[12:10] fallong all together. They accuse us

[12:12] saying that we cannot we don't allow

[12:15] people to go to hospital when they get

[12:17] ill. That's

[12:18] >> I'm not sure. No, I'm not sure I'm

[12:19] saying uh that that Fong doesn't allow

[12:22] people to go to hospitals, but I have

[12:24] heard English-speaking Chinese in this

[12:26] country who are practitioners who say

[12:28] it's not necessary. Do you believe that?

[12:30] >> Uh personally, I think uh uh I had

[12:33] chronic problem with my body. I had

[12:36] problems with my kidney and liver and

[12:39] stomach through practice all those uh

[12:42] syndromes disappeared. So uh uh I

[12:45] practice every day and it's been greatly

[12:47] effective for me. So I don't feel a need

[12:50] to try medications that I tried before

[12:53] which did not work. If if uh for example

[12:56] you started spitting out blood or if you

[12:58] broke a leg or if you had reason to

[13:00] believe that you might have cancer uh

[13:02] you wouldn't go to a doctor, you

[13:04] wouldn't go to a hospital. I think

[13:05] people should have the right to do

[13:07] whatever they want.

[13:08] >> I I'm asking you what you would do if

[13:10] you had that problem. I I realize it's a

[13:12] hypothetical question, but give me an

[13:14] answer anyway.

[13:15] >> Uh I just don't think those situation

[13:17] arrive. You know, I would let you know

[13:18] when they arise. They arise in

[13:19] everybody's life sooner or later. And

[13:21] >> when they come, I I'll know what to do.

[13:23] Very nice.

[13:23] >> When they come in the context of your

[13:26] movement, in the context of what you

[13:28] believe, what will you do?

[13:30] >> Uh right now, I don't think this

[13:31] situation will come. They are very

[13:33] hypothetical and I think we should doubt

[13:35] on the current situation in China.

[13:38] >> Well, I'll tell you what, allow me to

[13:39] ask the questions and then you try to

[13:41] give the answers. Okay.

[13:42] >> I must tell you one of the things that

[13:44] that makes your movement seem a little

[13:46] strange

[13:47] >> is that you and other spokesman for the

[13:49] movement won't answer what seems like a

[13:50] perfectly reasonable question. If you

[13:52] are sick, would you go to a doctor?

[13:54] Would you go to a hospital? And you tell

[13:56] me you're not sick. I get that. But but

[13:58] see if you can be a little more

[13:59] forthcoming. uh I think if I have a

[14:03] through the practice I've been feeling

[14:04] very normal I have never get any uh uh

[14:07] illness syndrome so I don't see a need

[14:10] to do it personally individually they

[14:12] can seek any medical help they want to

[14:15] if they uh even though they practice

[14:17] fallen gong and that's the individual

[14:19] individual choice

[14:20] >> very good are you a movement do you

[14:23] represent a body of people or are you

[14:27] just however large your group is

[14:29] hundreds of thousands thousands or even

[14:31] a few million individuals who practice

[14:35] your beliefs individually.

[14:38] >> Uh actually like Tai Chi or like Sholin

[14:41] Kung Fu you know those fingong is one of

[14:44] the chigong practice that has been

[14:46] traditionally uh passed on from

[14:48] generation to generations and in China

[14:52] everybody knows that in the parks people

[14:54] do morning exercise and fallong is one

[14:57] of the most popular practice in the

[14:59] parks. You are you are extremely

[15:00] skillful at avoiding questions. I I

[15:03] asked you a direct question. Uh are you

[15:05] a group? Are you a movement or are you

[15:08] simply individual practitioners who have

[15:12] whatever skills you have acquired over

[15:14] the year in common but nothing else?

[15:16] >> Uh actually it's a it's a popular uh

[15:19] exercise participate by many people.

[15:22] It's not a movement because we don't

[15:24] have any political agenda.

[15:26] >> Mr. Let me let me ask you as you know

[15:28] there are also hundreds of thousands

[15:31] probably millions of people in China who

[15:33] practice taichi another form of exercise

[15:37] uh concentration

[15:39] >> uh the Chinese government is not

[15:40] cracking down on those people. Why not?

[15:42] uh is very obvious because the

[15:44] fallingong practice is the most popular

[15:46] one in China because of its healing

[15:48] effect effectiveness and also because in

[15:52] falling we ask people to be good

[15:55] citizens to be people of high moral

[15:57] standards uh and to follow the

[16:00] principles of truth, compassion and

[16:02] tolerance. What do you think it is that

[16:04] really scares the Chinese government? I

[16:06] mean everything you've said sounds so

[16:08] positively benign. I would expect the

[16:10] Chinese government to embrace you and

[16:12] give you all a little award. Uh there

[16:14] must be something that scares them. What

[16:16] is it?

[16:17] >> I think the sheer number of the people

[16:19] that is who practice falling is so big

[16:22] they become so nervous because if

[16:25] everyone embrace traditional values

[16:28] instead of that of the communist

[16:30] ideology they will be very nervous. Also

[16:34] I would like to add Tad tens of thousand

[16:36] people's life are on the line. Thousands

[16:39] of people are being round up in stadiums

[16:42] without food, without drink, without

[16:45] access to toilets for several days. I'm

[16:48] calling for the international

[16:50] communities including United States

[16:52] government and other governments to step

[16:55] in to urge Chinese government to stop

[16:57] its inhumane treatment of these people.

[17:01] and uh we should solve this problem

[17:04] through the means of dialogue instead of

[17:06] using force against people against the

[17:09] will of the people.

[17:10] >> On that note, let me thank you for

[17:12] coming in this evening. I appreciate you

[17:13] being here. We will continue with the

[17:16] question of why the Chinese government

[17:17] is so concerned about falling gong when

[17:20] we ask an official of the Chinese

[17:21] embassy in a moment.

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[18:58] >> Coming up, Katie Sagal, Chad Thompson,

[19:01] the Ulle's John Henton, director Renie

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[20:12] >> And with us here in our Washington

[20:14] studios, Liu Yaoing, the number two

[20:16] official at the Chinese embassy here in

[20:18] Washington. Based on what we heard from

[20:21] Mr. Jang, they may have some rather

[20:23] bizarre medical practices and beliefs,

[20:27] but I find it hard to understand what it

[20:30] is about this group or this movement um

[20:34] that is so distressing or alarming to

[20:37] the Chinese government. Can you explain

[20:38] it?

[20:39] >> Of course. Uh first, this is illegal

[20:42] organizations

[20:43] >> because

[20:44] >> with no official legal registration

[20:47] status.

[20:48] >> Why does it need it? uh you know in

[20:50] China I believe also in this country

[20:53] when you want to set up organization you

[20:56] have to go through a normal procedures

[20:58] for registration

[20:59] >> but you heard what Mr. Jang said he says

[21:01] there is no organization anymore than

[21:03] people who practice Tai Chi have an

[21:04] organization.

[21:05] >> Well, I think what he said is completely

[21:08] lies. I would say in fact this leader of

[21:12] Fallenong Lihungju set up a 39 what they

[21:16] call it practicing

[21:18] uh center and under this 39 practicing

[21:22] center there are about 1,900

[21:26] practicing station

[21:27] >> and what what would what would happen

[21:29] there? Forgive me for interrupting you,

[21:30] but you and I have limited time and I I

[21:33] want to get to the the nub of it.

[21:35] >> If in fact what they do is practice deep

[21:37] breathing exercises there or even

[21:39] martial arts uh or even some sort of

[21:42] psychic energy that permits them not to

[21:44] have to go to the hospital or seek

[21:46] medical care again, what is so

[21:48] threatening to the Chinese government?

[21:50] >> Uh if they are really doing what they

[21:52] claim to be uh benign, I think there

[21:55] should be no problem at all. In fact,

[21:57] the Chinese government uh you know have

[22:00] no intention to ban the chiong the

[22:02] breathing exercise which is a long

[22:05] tradition uh in China. But what this

[22:08] organization is doing is to engage in

[22:11] illegal activities like they harass and

[22:15] besiege the government agencies, the

[22:18] media units, whoever disagree with their

[22:21] thinking. You know in fact the first

[22:23] incident occurred when there's a

[22:25] scientist who wrote article in published

[22:27] in the university newspaper and saying

[22:29] criticizing this fallong is

[22:32] anti-scientific spreading superstitions

[22:35] then the organizers mobilized the

[22:38] practitioners siege university for 3

[22:42] days and then they went to Beijing you

[22:45] know to siege junah the seat of the

[22:47] government agencies

[22:49] >> let's let's talk about that for a moment

[22:51] when you They put them under siege. As I

[22:54] understand it, 10,000 people came out

[22:56] there and basically sat there and stood

[22:59] there and did their deep breathing

[23:01] exercises and did nothing more. If the

[23:03] Chinese government feels threatened by

[23:05] that kind of activity, I wonder what it

[23:07] would feel if there were real violent

[23:09] political protest. uh in fact uh they

[23:12] are not only doing that they have

[23:15] mobilized so-called demonstrations

[23:18] throughout the country in all 30 cities

[23:21] they are interrupting traffic

[23:23] interrupting block the traffic

[23:25] interrupting social order Mr. Well, you

[23:28] what what I always find a little

[23:30] difficult when I'm talking to a

[23:31] representative of the Chinese government

[23:33] is that charges like this are made,

[23:35] assertions are made. You are never

[23:39] willing to let us look deeply into these

[23:41] stories or willing to take us to the

[23:43] places where one could confirm on our

[23:47] own that these charges are true. I I

[23:49] mean, so far all I hear is a lot of

[23:51] words being bandied back and forth, and

[23:53] I must confess, I don't know whom to

[23:54] believe.

[23:55] >> In fact, there's a lot of investigations

[23:57] going on. There's a lot of facts has

[23:59] been you know given to uh foreign media

[24:02] or domestic media. I can give you many

[24:04] examples. Many of them have their names.

[24:07] >> No no my my my point precisely. I I'm

[24:09] not interested in receiving it from you.

[24:11] I'm interested in having our own

[24:13] correspondents go out and find it for

[24:14] themselves. Could we do that?

[24:16] >> Of course. I think you know many of your

[24:18] journalists have a wide access uh to a a

[24:21] lot of uh you know organizations and

[24:24] institutions. So if they give us the

[24:27] names of locations where people are

[24:29] being held and we came to the Chinese

[24:31] government and said can we visit those

[24:32] locations no problem right?

[24:34] >> Uh we I have no information about the

[24:37] location of the stadium.

[24:38] >> No I understand

[24:41] if we come to you with the location

[24:43] >> we'll look into it. We certainly will

[24:44] look into it.

[24:45] >> No I mean can we look into it

[24:47] >> the stadium?

[24:48] >> Yes. I'm not in a position to tell

[24:50] because I do not know whether this from

[24:53] what I heard this is totally lies and

[24:56] rumors and we can let you know after our

[25:00] investigations.

[25:01] >> Right. Um

[25:03] I guess that's I guess that's where

[25:05] we're going to have to leave it for the

[25:07] evening. Just one last question to you.

[25:09] He the representative of Fong Gong

[25:11] wanted very much to be able to debate

[25:13] you directly. You didn't want to do

[25:14] that. Why? uh because uh he we do not

[25:17] recognize his organization is illegal

[25:20] organizations is outlawed by the Chinese

[25:22] government. We do not recognize their

[25:25] status whatever.

[25:26] >> Mr. Leu, it's very good of you to come

[25:28] in and I thank you for being with us.

[25:30] >> Thank you very much, Dad.

[25:32] >> I'll be back in 2 minutes and 35 seconds

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[28:18] >> We're about out of time for this

[28:20] evening. We have just enough left to

[28:22] tell you about the first of eight night

[28:24] lines in prime time beginning tomorrow,

[28:26] reported by ABC's Robert Kritch. Why, if

[28:30] we have faster and faster and faster

[28:33] machines, do we feel we're running out

[28:35] of time?

[28:36] >> The trouble is we're we're addicts to

[28:38] time.

[28:38] >> Time. 1 second is cool.

[28:40] >> 2 seconds is a lot.

[28:42] >> 3 seconds is too long.

[28:44] >> Why is it that even these people find it

[28:47] hard to slow down? Then how do we

[28:49] account for the suspicious success of

[28:52] cell phones?

[28:55] >> If we are wired for speed, what are we

[28:57] leaving behind?

[29:00] Lots of questions. Night Line in prime

[29:02] time. Brave New World for eight

[29:04] Thursdays beginning tomorrow night at 10

[29:07] Eastern time. And that's our report for

[29:09] tonight. I'm Ted CPP in Washington. For

[29:11] all of us here at ABC News, good.

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[30:04] >> Ladies and gentlemen, the star of

[30:06] Politically Incorrect, Bill Mars.

[30:13] Bill's guest tonight, Kitty Cal.

[30:17] You see director Ry Harland,

[30:20] John Hinton,

[30:23] and Jack Thompson.

[30:28] Thank you so much. Thank you once again.

[30:31] Indoor.