World News Tonight (ABC) - 1998-09-21

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:03] On a special edition of World News

[0:04] Tonight, the president's testimony

[0:06] before the grand jury.

[0:08] >> I'm trying to be honest with you and it

[0:10] hurts me and I'm trying to be tell you

[0:11] the truth about what happened between

[0:13] Miss Lewinsky and me.

[0:15] >> Did Mr. Clinton tell the truth? And now

[0:18] that his testimony will be seen by

[0:20] millions of people, what will it mean to

[0:23] his future?

[0:32] From ABC News World Headquarters in New

[0:34] York, this is a special 1-hour edition

[0:37] of World News Tonight with Peter

[0:39] Jennings.

[0:41] >> Good evening, everyone. We've never

[0:42] before seen a president testify to a

[0:44] grand jury. And in the first few minutes

[0:46] when it began this morning, it was a

[0:48] shock to simply see him there. When he

[0:51] was over 4 hours later, there were any

[0:53] number of reactions. There is no way to

[0:55] predict at this early stage what the

[0:57] impact will be on public opinion, but

[1:00] our intention in this hour is to play

[1:02] some of the important portions of the

[1:03] testimony and then to report on the

[1:05] testimony as it pertains to the

[1:07] president's legal and political future.

[1:10] The Independent Council's report to the

[1:12] Congress, remember, is about perjury and

[1:14] obstruction of justice. And yes, there

[1:16] is quite a lot about the president's

[1:18] definition of sex in this videotape,

[1:21] some of which is not suitable for

[1:23] children. We begin with part of the

[1:25] president's opening statement about his

[1:27] relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

[1:32] These encounters did not consist of

[1:34] sexual intercourse.

[1:36] They did not constitute sexual relations

[1:38] as I understood that term to be defined

[1:41] at my January 17th, 1998

[1:45] deposition.

[1:47] But they did involve an appropriate

[1:50] intimate contact.

[1:52] What did you believe

[1:55] beyond the definition to include an

[1:58] expert? What kinds of activities?

[2:02] I thought the definition included any

[2:04] activity by the the person being deposed

[2:07] where the person was the actor and uh

[2:10] came in contact with those parts of the

[2:12] bodies with the purpose of intent or

[2:14] gratification

[2:15] and excluded any other activity.

[2:20] For example, kissing is not covered by

[2:21] that, I don't think. Yes, I understood

[2:24] the definition to be limited to to

[2:27] physical contact with those areas of the

[2:29] body with the specific intent to arouse

[2:32] or gratify. That's what I understood it

[2:35] to be. And I believe that is the

[2:37] definition that most ordinary Americans

[2:40] would give it. If you said Jane and

[2:43] Harry have a sexual relationship

[2:46] and you're not talking about people

[2:47] being drawn into a lawsuit and being

[2:49] given definitions and then a great

[2:51] effort to trick them in some way. But

[2:52] you're just talking about people in

[2:54] ordinary conversations. I'll bet the

[2:56] grand jurors if they were talking about

[2:58] two people they know and said they have

[2:59] a sexual relationship, they meant they

[3:01] were sleeping together. They meant they

[3:03] were having intercourse together. So,

[3:04] I'm not at all sure that this affidavit

[3:06] is not true and was not true in Miss

[3:08] Lewinsky's mind at the time she swore it

[3:10] out.

[3:11] >> So, your definition of sexual

[3:15] relationship is intercourse only. Is

[3:18] that correct?

[3:20] >> No, not necessarily intercourse only,

[3:22] but it would include intercourse. I

[3:24] believe I believe that the common

[3:26] understanding

[3:28] of the term if you say two people are

[3:30] having a sexual relationship most people

[3:31] believe that includes intercourse

[3:34] >> is oral sex performed on you

[3:38] uh within

[3:40] that definition as you understood it

[3:43] >> as I understood it it was not no if the

[3:45] person being deposed in this case me

[3:49] directly touched the breast of another

[3:52] person with the purpose to arouse or

[3:56] gratify under that definition that would

[3:59] be included. My testimony is that I did

[4:02] not have sexual relations as I

[4:05] understood this term to be defined. I

[4:08] have not had sex with her. As I define

[4:09] it, that was true.

[4:11] >> And Monica Lewinsky says that while you

[4:13] were in the Oval Office area, you

[4:15] touched her breast. Would she be lying?

[4:20] >> That is not my recollection. My

[4:22] recollection is that I did not have

[4:23] sexual relations with Miss Winsky and

[4:25] I'm staying on my former statement about

[4:27] that.

[4:28] >> If she my my my statement is that I did

[4:31] not have sexual relations as defined by

[4:34] that.

[4:35] >> If she says that you kissed her breast,

[4:37] would she be lying?

[4:39] I'm going to revert to my former

[4:41] statement.

[4:41] >> Okay. If Monica Lewinsky says that while

[4:44] you were in the Oval Office area, you

[4:46] touched her genitalia, would she be

[4:47] lying? That calls for a yes, no, or

[4:50] reverting to your former statement?

[4:52] >> I will revert to my statement on that.

[4:54] >> If Monica Lewinsky says that you used a

[4:56] cigar as a sexual aid with her in the

[4:58] Oval Office area, would she be lying?

[5:02] >> Yes, no, or or won't answer.

[5:04] >> I will revert to my former statement.

[5:06] >> The grand jury would like to know, Mr.

[5:08] President, why it is that you think that

[5:11] oral sex performed on you does not fall

[5:14] within the definition of sexual

[5:16] relations as used in your deposition?

[5:20] Because

[5:25] that is

[5:27] if the deponent is the person who has

[5:29] oral sex performed on them, then the

[5:32] contact is with not with anything on

[5:36] that list, but with the lips of another

[5:38] person. I had inappropriate intimate

[5:41] contact.

[5:42] I take full responsibility for it. It

[5:44] wasn't her fault. It was mine.

[5:48] Uh I I do not believe that I violated

[5:52] the definition of sexual relations I was

[5:54] given by directly touching those parts

[5:57] of her uh body with the intent to arouse

[6:01] or gratify.

[6:03] And

[6:05] that's all I have to say.

[6:08] >> Just a couple of things here. You notice

[6:09] they're taking excerpts from that

[6:11] testimony. We uh we do our best to make

[6:13] sure that they do not misrepresent the

[6:15] president's testimony in any way, shape,

[6:16] or form. We're joined by our legal

[6:19] analyst, Jeffrey Tubin. Jeffrey, um

[6:22] president reverts to his former

[6:24] statement time and time again there.

[6:26] Help us understand what's the point. Is

[6:27] this about the charges of perjury?

[6:29] >> This is really all about perjury. And in

[6:31] fact, those excerpts we just saw,

[6:33] they're really a road map of the

[6:34] impeachment battle to come. Because the

[6:37] heart of Kenar's case against Bill

[6:39] Clinton is that he lied about whether he

[6:42] had sexual relations with Monica

[6:44] Lewinsky, even as he understood that

[6:47] term to be defined. And also that he

[6:49] lied about what precisely he did with

[6:51] her, where and how he touched her. And

[6:54] all of those statements, just about all

[6:56] of them, Kenstar alleges are false and

[6:58] prejurious. I

[6:59] >> I noticed at one point that the grand

[7:01] jury seemed a little impatient with the

[7:03] president.

[7:03] >> Well, it was interesting. I mean, there

[7:04] was a lot of lawyer talk today uh from

[7:07] both the law the the prosecutors and uh

[7:09] the president, but the the the grand

[7:11] jury really seemed to cut through it and

[7:13] they said, "Come on, did is is oral

[7:15] sex?" And the president stuck to his

[7:17] position of saying, "No, it's not as far

[7:19] as he understood that term."

[7:20] >> Let me turn to ABC's Jackie Jud who's

[7:22] covered this uh covered this from the

[7:23] very beginning. Jackie, um Monica

[7:25] Lewinsk's testimony was also released

[7:26] today, though not in video tape form. Do

[7:28] you see inconsistencies between her

[7:30] testimony and the president's? There is

[7:32] one key inconsistency, Peter, and it is

[7:34] this. In the grand jury testimony where

[7:37] we just saw the president, he

[7:39] essentially denied that he touched

[7:41] Monica Lewinsky in any way with the

[7:43] intention to arouse her. Monica Lewinsky

[7:47] gives some very detailed descriptions of

[7:49] the nine or 10 sexual encounters they

[7:51] had in the Oval Office complex in which

[7:54] he describes just that, that Mr. Clinton

[7:56] did touch parts of her body. That's

[7:59] important here, Peter, because it goes

[8:00] to the issue of perjury, not so much in

[8:03] the civil deposition back in January,

[8:05] but before the grand jury in August.

[8:07] >> Thank you both very much. We'll come

[8:08] back to both of you before this

[8:09] broadcast is finished. In just a moment,

[8:12] the president's memory, a worldass

[8:14] memory, says one of his friends.

[8:19] >> This is World News Tonight with Peter

[8:22] Jennings, brought to you by AT&T.

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[9:46] It goes without saying the president

[9:47] would have preferred for the whole world

[9:49] not to see his videotape testimony.

[9:51] While he was everywhere on television

[9:52] today, his public focus was on

[9:54] international events. He spoke before

[9:56] the United Nations General Assembly

[9:59] making a call to fight terrorism around

[10:01] the world more effectively. We'll have

[10:03] another word about that towards the end

[10:04] of the broadcast. Anyone who watched all

[10:07] four hours of the president's testimony

[10:09] today could not help but notice how many

[10:11] times the president said he didn't know

[10:13] or couldn't recall or couldn't remember

[10:15] about what he was being asked. By our

[10:17] count, he said some variation of that at

[10:20] least

[10:22] 148 times. ABC's Sam Donaldson watched

[10:25] the testimony with us this morning. Sam,

[10:27] it's yours.

[10:28] >> Well, Peter, no one has a perfect

[10:30] memory, and it's no surprise when

[10:31] anyone, under oath or not, can't

[10:33] remember everything. But in the context

[10:35] of the Star investigation, the

[10:36] president's highly imperfect memory is

[10:38] both controversial and potentially a

[10:41] factor in charges of perjury.

[10:44] For instance, in the president's Paula

[10:45] Jones deposition last January 17th, the

[10:48] president kept insisting that he could

[10:49] not recall for certain having ever been

[10:52] alone with Lewinsky. Before the grand

[10:54] jury, the president admitted to having

[10:56] been alone with Lewinsky on

[10:57] approximately nine separate occasions.

[10:59] Although he wanted to argue the

[11:00] definition of the word alone.

[11:03] >> You were alone with Monica Lewinsky,

[11:05] weren't you?

[11:08] >> Well, it again depends on how you define

[11:10] alone. Yes, we were alone from time to

[11:13] time even during 1997 even there there

[11:16] was absolutely no improper contact

[11:18] occurring. Yes, there that is accurate.

[11:21] Uh but there were also a lot of times

[11:24] when um even though we no one could see

[11:28] us, the doors were open to the halls on

[11:30] both ends of the hall. People could

[11:32] hear. Uh there were a lot of times when

[11:34] we were alone, but I never really

[11:36] thought we were.

[11:37] >> But on one particular date, the

[11:38] prosecutor elicited an unqualified

[11:40] answer.

[11:41] >> You were alone with her on December

[11:43] 28th, 1997.

[11:44] >> Yes, sir. I was. In the Paula Jones

[11:46] deposition, the president was asked,

[11:48] "Have you ever given any gifts to Monica

[11:50] Lewinsky?" His reply, "I don't recall.

[11:53] Do you know what they were?" Under

[11:55] questioning by Jones attorneys, the

[11:57] president did recall a few gifts, but he

[11:59] did not mention a series of gifts that

[12:01] he now acknowledges he gave Lewinsky

[12:03] during their December 28th meeting just

[12:06] about 3 weeks earlier. Why didn't he

[12:08] mention that? The prosecutors wanted to

[12:10] know. They didn't ask me about the

[12:14] about the Christmas gifts and I don't

[12:16] know why I didn't think to say anything

[12:18] about it.

[12:19] >> Also last December on the 19th, the

[12:21] president met at the White House with

[12:22] his friend Vernon Jordan and he

[12:24] acknowledged in his grand jury testimony

[12:26] that they talked about Monica Lewinsky's

[12:28] subpoena to testify in the Jones case.

[12:31] But in his Paula Jones deposition, the

[12:33] president said he didn't think he'd talk

[12:35] to anyone about that except his lawyers.

[12:38] How to square that.

[12:39] >> Mr. President, 3 and 1/2 weeks before

[12:42] Mr. Jordan had made a special trip to

[12:44] the White House to tell you Miss Winsky

[12:46] had been subpoenaed. She was distraught.

[12:49] She had a fixation over you. You

[12:51] couldn't remember that 3 and 1/2 weeks

[12:53] later.

[12:56] Mr. Weisenberg, if they had access to

[12:58] all this information

[13:00] from their conversations with Linda

[13:04] Trip, if that was the basis of it, they

[13:07] were free to ask me more questions. They

[13:09] may been trying to trick me.

[13:10] >> Can you tell the grand jury what is

[13:12] tricky about the question? Did anyone

[13:14] other than your attorneys

[13:17] ever tell you?

[13:18] >> No, there's nothing. I'm just telling I

[13:19] have explained. I will now explain for

[13:21] the third time. Sir,

[13:22] >> perhaps even more delicate is the

[13:24] president's memory as to why he didn't

[13:25] jump in and correct a misstatement made

[13:27] by his attorney at the Paula Jones

[13:29] deposition, Bob Bennett. At one point,

[13:31] in front of Mr. Clinton. Bennett told

[13:33] the judge that Lewinsky had sworn an

[13:35] affidavit that quote, "There is

[13:37] absolutely no sex of any kind in any

[13:40] manner, shape, or form with President

[13:43] Clinton." The president remained silent.

[13:46] >> Do you agree with me that if he misled

[13:49] Judge Wright in some way that you would

[13:51] have corrected the record and said,

[13:54] "Excuse me, Mr. Bennett." Uh, I think

[13:56] the judge is getting a misimpression by

[13:58] what you're saying.

[14:01] >> If Mr. minute was representing me. I

[14:02] wasn't representing him

[14:05] and I wasn't even paying much attention

[14:07] to this conversation.

[14:08] >> And once again, the president wanted to

[14:10] argue definitions.

[14:11] >> The statement that there was no sex of

[14:14] any kind in any manner, shape, or form.

[14:17] President Clinton was an utterly false

[14:20] statement. Is that correct?

[14:25] >> It depends upon what the meaning of the

[14:27] word is. Yes.

[14:32] If the if he if is means is and never

[14:35] has been, that is not a that's one

[14:37] thing. If it means there is none, that

[14:41] was a completely true statement.

[14:43] >> Finally, on memory, the president said

[14:45] his once excellent memory had been

[14:47] degraded and to some extent the

[14:49] prosecutors were to blame.

[14:51] >> I have been blessed and advanced in my

[14:54] life with a good memory.

[14:56] I have been shocked and so have members

[14:58] of my family and friends of mine

[15:01] at how many things that I have forgotten

[15:05] in the last six years. But I think

[15:08] because of the pressure and the pace and

[15:10] the volume of events in a president's

[15:12] life compounded by the pressure of your

[15:16] four-year inquiry

[15:20] and all the other things that have

[15:23] happened. I'm amazed there are lots of

[15:25] times when I literally can't remember

[15:27] last week.

[15:28] >> And when it comes to memory, Peter,

[15:30] sometimes age is a factor, although

[15:31] perhaps not in the case of Mr. Clinton.

[15:34] But when Ronald Reagan was leaving the

[15:35] White House in his late 70s, he said

[15:37] once, "Ah, memory. 50 years ago is

[15:41] crystal clear. Yesterday is up for

[15:43] grabs." Sam, just hang on for will you

[15:46] for one second because there are not

[15:47] many analysts in the country today who

[15:48] know uh President Clinton as well as

[15:51] does ABC's George Stephanopoulos who

[15:53] watched the testimony with us today.

[15:54] George, any surprises for you today and

[15:56] what you saw?

[15:57] >> Well, I think the president was

[15:58] surprised a few times during the

[16:00] testimony. When he first heard about the

[16:02] cigar, you saw him recoil. When he heard

[16:06] that they had evidence of phone calls he

[16:07] made to Kathleen Willie, he seemed

[16:09] surprised. And also when he was

[16:11] questioned about the tie Monica Lewinsky

[16:13] supposedly gave him, you saw a tactic

[16:15] the president used when he was

[16:16] surprised. He tried to buy time by

[16:18] asking more questions. But overall, you

[16:21] just saw the Bill Clinton that a lot of

[16:23] us who worked for him have seen for a

[16:24] long time. Many sided, angry, charming

[16:26] at times, certainly a good lawyer um and

[16:29] also evasive at times.

[16:31] >> And and as a lawyer, is the president

[16:33] inclined to be well briefed before he

[16:35] goes into a situation like this?

[16:36] >> Oh, certainly. He was he was clearly

[16:38] well brief and that's why there were

[16:39] only a few surprises during the course

[16:41] of the testimony. I think the only time

[16:43] his lawyers might have gotten upset is

[16:45] there were sometimes when he seemed to

[16:46] go on a little long and try to

[16:48] overexlain himself and you could hear

[16:49] David Kendall sometimes interrupt to

[16:51] stop him. A

[16:52] >> very quick convers a question for Sam

[16:53] Donaldson is still at the White House.

[16:55] Sam, they've had several hours to absorb

[16:57] this. How do they think they did?

[16:59] >> Well, the White House people say they

[17:01] think he did pretty well. Uh, as you

[17:03] know, Mike Mccur has made a statement

[17:05] which he said none of this, no matter

[17:07] what you heard or saw, rises to the

[17:09] level of impeachable offense. They

[17:10] believe that they got by with the very

[17:13] least amount of damage. But then again,

[17:15] Peter, it's not poking a stick at them

[17:17] to say that's what you would expect them

[17:19] to say, isn't it?

[17:20] >> And it's early days. Thank you, Sam.

[17:21] We'll come back to you a little later in

[17:22] the broadcast. When we come back, right

[17:24] now, the president's personal secretary.

[17:26] Did the president try to influence Betty

[17:29] Curry's testimony?

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[19:06] >> Are we going to have a good time

[19:08] tonight?

[19:08] >> Bye, Dad.

[19:09] >> Thanks for jumping in and watching,

[19:10] Tyler.

[19:11] >> Bye, mommy.

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[19:41] >> One of the allegedly impeachable

[19:42] offenses that Kenneth Star enumerates is

[19:44] that Mr. Clinton tampered with a

[19:46] witness, that he tried to obstruct

[19:48] justice by influencing the testimony of

[19:50] his personal secretary, Betty Curry.

[19:52] what the president said to her and what

[19:55] she did is very much at the center of

[19:57] all this. So once again, we go to ABC's

[19:59] Jackie Jut.

[20:01] >> Peter, it was Betty Curry who sometimes

[20:03] helped arrange President Clinton's

[20:05] liaison with Monica Lewinsky. And so it

[20:08] was Betty Curry the president urgently

[20:10] reached out to after he was blindsided

[20:13] with detailed questioning about Lewinsky

[20:15] by lawyers for Paula Jones.

[20:18] Prosecutors alleged that in two

[20:20] conversations with Curry, Mr. Clinton

[20:22] tampered with a witness that he tried to

[20:25] gain Curry's support in backing up his

[20:27] false statements to Jones's lawyers. The

[20:30] president testified that he was only

[20:32] trying to refresh his own memory by

[20:34] comparing it to what Curry recollected.

[20:37] >> And I wanted to know what Betty's memory

[20:38] was about

[20:40] uh what she heard, what she could hear.

[20:44] And uh what I did not know was I did not

[20:49] know that. And I was trying to figure

[20:50] out I was trying to figure out in a

[20:52] hurry because I knew something was up.

[20:54] >> So you wanted her memory for what she

[20:56] remembered and that is that's correct.

[20:57] Whether she remembered nothing or

[20:59] whether she remembered an inappropriate

[21:02] intimate.

[21:03] >> No no I didn't ask her about it in that

[21:05] way. I asked her about what the what I

[21:08] was trying to determine was whether my

[21:11] recollection was right that she was

[21:12] always

[21:14] uh in the office complex when Monica was

[21:17] there and whether she thought she could

[21:20] hear any conversations we had.

[21:22] >> What Curry testified to was that Mr.

[21:24] Clinton walked her through statements

[21:26] that she concluded the president wanted

[21:28] her to agree with. Statements about

[21:31] Lewinsky that included, "We were never

[21:33] alone." Right? You, Curry, could see and

[21:36] hear everything. Monica came on to me

[21:39] and I never touched her. Right.

[21:41] >> Did the conversations that you had with

[21:43] Mrs. Curry, this conversation, did it

[21:45] refresh your recollection as to the

[21:48] events involving M. Lewinsky?

[21:52] Well, as I remember,

[21:54] I I do believe in fairness that that u

[22:01] you know, she may have felt some

[22:03] ambivalence about how to react because

[22:04] there were some times when uh she seemed

[22:08] to say yes when I'm not sure she meant

[22:10] yes. There was a time, it seems like

[22:12] there was one or two things where she

[22:13] said, "Well, remember this, or the other

[22:14] thing," which did reflect my

[22:16] recollection. So, I I would say

[22:21] a little yes and a little no.

[22:24] >> The Star Report concludes that Mr.

[22:26] Clinton's account conflicts with common

[22:28] sense because making false statements to

[22:31] Curry could not remind the president of

[22:33] the facts. On another issue, the

[22:36] president was asked whether he enlisted

[22:38] Betty Curry's help in concealing gifts

[22:40] he had given Lewinsky that had been

[22:42] subpoenaed.

[22:43] >> No, sir. I didn't do that.

[22:46] I did not do that.

[22:47] >> It was Curry who drove to Lewinsk's

[22:50] apartment to pick up the presence. The

[22:52] Star report concludes the president was

[22:54] orchestrating the collection of evidence

[22:56] and probably using his personal

[22:58] secretary in that effort. But in his

[23:01] testimony, the president emphasized time

[23:04] and again that giving gifts was

[23:05] something he did routinely. So he had no

[23:08] concern that those gifts he had given

[23:10] Lewinsky were being sought by Jones's

[23:12] lawyers. In other words, he had no

[23:14] motive to want to hide the evidence.

[23:17] Peter

[23:17] >> Jackie, thank you. Back to our legal

[23:18] analyst again for a moment, Jeffrey

[23:20] Tubin. Jeffrey, it sounds at least this

[23:22] is the layman's ear. Lots of hints here,

[23:25] but no outright proof. How does it sound

[23:27] to a lawyer?

[23:27] >> Well, it's certainly true that the

[23:29] there's no evidence that the president

[23:31] said, "I instruct you to lie." But under

[23:33] the law, he doesn't have to say that.

[23:35] The key in a case about obstruction like

[23:38] of justice like this one is what was the

[23:40] president's intent? Did he intend that

[23:44] that Betty Curry lie? And as Congress

[23:46] comes to weigh this issue and as they

[23:48] perhaps call witnesses, that's going to

[23:50] be the key issue and it's likely it

[23:52] won't be settled very easily.

[23:53] >> And is the burden of proof in an

[23:55] impeachment hearing the same as it would

[23:56] be in a court?

[23:57] >> Not at all. Impeachment is much more of

[23:59] a free form process. Of course, in a

[24:01] criminal case, the government would have

[24:03] to prove beyond a reasonable doubt its

[24:05] accusations. Congress has no such

[24:07] guidance. They just have to determine

[24:09] whether high crimes and misdemeanors

[24:11] occurred and how they do that is up to

[24:13] them.

[24:13] >> Thank you for reminding us Jeffrey

[24:14] Tubin. We're going to be taking a short

[24:16] break now, but in the moment we'll come

[24:18] back and talk about that allimp

[24:20] important reaction in the Congress.

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[26:48] Just to restate the obvious, this is a

[26:49] legal process. This is a process very

[26:51] deeply involved with public opinion. And

[26:54] of course, it is a political process.

[26:56] The impeachment process faces the

[26:58] president on Capitol Hill. They've been

[27:00] watching all day today from their

[27:01] various parts of the country. Linda

[27:03] Douglas is on Capitol Hill tonight.

[27:04] Linda, what are you picking up about the

[27:06] impact of today's videotape testimony?

[27:09] >> What I'm picking up from both parties is

[27:11] that members are very cautious right now

[27:13] to predict how the public is going to

[27:14] react. I talked to two veteran senators,

[27:17] one of each party. Each one said, "We

[27:19] have no idea how this is going to play."

[27:21] But some of the Democrats who've been

[27:22] critical of the president noted a

[27:24] change. They say the calls this morning

[27:26] were running strongly in favor of the

[27:28] president this after last week when

[27:30] those calls were running against the

[27:32] president. Uh some of the Republicans

[27:33] are also being a little bit low-key in

[27:35] their analysis, saying that this tape

[27:37] may have been anticlimactic for many

[27:39] viewers. People expected the president

[27:41] to lose his temper and he didn't lose

[27:43] his temper. So that means that perhaps

[27:44] the White House did a very good job of

[27:46] raising expectations that the president

[27:48] would lose his temper. Now they think

[27:49] it's kind of a wash.

[27:50] >> Do you know what the basis was for the

[27:52] change in the calls to these offices?

[27:54] What they picked up?

[27:55] >> You never know, Peter, where these calls

[27:57] are coming from. And I want to stress

[27:58] that in advance, but the people who are

[28:00] calling are saying, "Leave him alone.

[28:02] The tape shouldn't have come out. We're

[28:04] tired of all this. This is enough

[28:06] already. Too much smut." But again, I

[28:08] want to caution. We don't know where the

[28:09] calls were coming from.

[28:10] >> Okay. Thanks, Linda, very much. ABC's

[28:11] Koki Roberts is in our Washington

[28:13] bureau. Um, Koki, we've asked you the

[28:15] litmus test question many times. I know

[28:17] you've talked to a lot of people today.

[28:19] What's the impact of these calls on the

[28:20] polit political process?

[28:22] >> Oh, they're strong and and I my

[28:24] reporting turned up exactly what Linda

[28:26] did. I I talked to Democratic House

[28:28] members uh many of them from swing

[28:30] districts and they they said that this

[28:32] helped the president today. Uh but they

[28:35] were very struck by the calls that they

[28:37] got last week. one one told me she had

[28:39] to uh hire an extra person to come on uh

[28:43] to just to take the calls and at that

[28:44] point they were running 70% against the

[28:47] president. Today they were running for

[28:49] the president and members are very very

[28:51] uh taken with calls particularly if

[28:53] they're from their own district and

[28:54] their own voters but you know Peter

[28:57] these people are being so cautious

[28:59] because they keep saying they are just

[29:02] clueless about what's going to happen.

[29:04] So, so what does it mean help the

[29:05] president mean help the president avoid

[29:07] the impeachment process?

[29:08] >> Help him avoid uh immediate impeachment

[29:11] or an impeachment vote right away. Uh

[29:14] because at the at the end of last week,

[29:17] you were getting very strong messages

[29:19] from Democrats that that they were

[29:22] having a terrible time supporting the

[29:24] president and that they were really

[29:26] eager for him to resign. That seems to

[29:28] have been staunch somewhat today. But

[29:30] look, you're quite right. the process

[29:32] will go forward and the now what you're

[29:36] hearing from both parties is much more

[29:37] of a cry of get everything out fast and

[29:41] uh and then we'll see where we are.

[29:42] >> Okay. Many thanks Koki Roberts and Linda

[29:45] Duckus on Capitol Hill tonight. We'll be

[29:46] back in just a moment.

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[31:18] Tonight

[31:36] at 8 Eastern, 5 Pacific on ABC.

[31:41] A review of what we've been through so

[31:43] far in this expanded edition of World

[31:44] News Tonight. The president's entire

[31:46] videotape testimony before the grand

[31:48] jury released today. 4 hours. Good

[31:50] number of questions about sex or with

[31:52] sex at the backdrop. Certainly about the

[31:54] obstruction of justice, perjury,

[31:56] tampering with witnesses. President

[31:57] could not remember. A lot of specifics.

[32:00] Coming up in this next half hour, a look

[32:02] at the many moods of Bill Clinton as

[32:04] expressed in his tape testimony today.

[32:06] Monica Lewinsky's complete testimony

[32:08] also released today. And we've been

[32:10] trying to take the temperature of what

[32:11] the public is thinking about on this

[32:13] remarkable day. So, we hope you'll stay

[32:15] with us.

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[34:18] >> Now, I'm trying to be honest with you,

[34:19] and it hurts me. And I'm trying to be

[34:21] tell you the truth about what happened

[34:23] between Miss Lewinsky and me. But that

[34:26] does not change the fact that the real

[34:28] reason they were zeroing in on anybody

[34:30] was to try to get any person in there,

[34:32] no matter how uninvolved with Paula

[34:34] Jones, no matter how uninvolved with

[34:36] sexual harassment,

[34:38] so they could hurt me politically. They

[34:40] just thought they would take a wrecking

[34:42] ball to me and see if they could do some

[34:44] damage. But in this deposition, Mr.

[34:46] Bentley, I was doing my best to be

[34:49] truthful. I was not trying to be

[34:51] particularly helpful to them and I

[34:53] didn't think I had an obligation to be

[34:54] particularly helpful to them to further

[34:57] a when I knew that there was no evidence

[35:00] here of sexual harassment and I knew

[35:02] what they wanted to do was to leak this

[35:04] even though it was unlawful to do so. I

[35:07] have always given a lot of people gifts.

[35:09] I have always been given gifts. I do not

[35:12] think there is anything improper about a

[35:14] man giving a woman a gift or a woman

[35:16] giving a man a gift that necessarily

[35:19] conotes an improper relationship. So, it

[35:22] didn't bother me. I wasn't, you know,

[35:24] this was December 28th. I was I gave her

[35:27] some gifts. I I wasn't worried about it.

[35:29] I thought it was an all right thing to

[35:30] do. Mr. Weisenberg,

[35:33] I have testified about this three times.

[35:35] Now, I will do it the fourth time. I am

[35:38] not going to answer your trick

[35:39] questions. I felt very strongly that

[35:43] Miss Lewinsky and everybody else that

[35:45] didn't know anything about Paula Jones

[35:47] and anybody about anything about sexual

[35:49] harassment

[35:51] that she and others were themselves

[35:53] being harassed. I think what they were

[35:56] trying to do to her and all these other

[35:57] people who knew nothing about sexual

[35:59] harassment was outrageous just so they

[36:03] could hurt me politically. Did I want

[36:06] this to come out? No. Was I embarrassed

[36:08] about it? Yes. Did I ask her to lie

[36:11] about it? No. Did I believe there could

[36:13] be a truthful affidavit? Absolutely. My

[36:16] goal in this deposition was to be

[36:19] truthful, but not particularly helpful.

[36:23] I did not wish to do the work of the

[36:24] Jones lawyers. I deplored what they were

[36:27] doing. I deplored the innocent people

[36:30] they were tormenting and traumatizing. I

[36:32] deplored their illegal leaking. I

[36:35] deplored the fact that they knew once

[36:37] they knew our evidence that this was a

[36:39] bogus lawsuit and that because of the

[36:41] funding they had from my political

[36:43] enemies they were putting ahead. I

[36:46] deplored it. But I was determined to

[36:49] walk through the minefield of this

[36:51] deposition without violating the law and

[36:53] I believe I did. This reminds me to some

[36:57] extent of the hearings when Clarence

[36:59] Thomas and Anita Hill were both

[37:01] testifying under oath. I believe that

[37:04] they both thought they were telling the

[37:06] truth.

[37:08] This is you're dealing with in some ways

[37:10] the most mysterious area of human life.

[37:12] I'm doing the best I can to give you

[37:14] honest answers. I didn't have perfect

[37:17] memory of all these events that have now

[37:19] in the last 7 months since Miss Lewinsky

[37:22] was kept for several hours by four or

[37:24] five of your lawyers and four or five

[37:26] FBI agents

[37:28] uh as if she were a serious felon. Uh,

[37:32] these things have become the most

[37:33] important matters in the world. So maybe

[37:35] Miss Lewinsky believes she's telling the

[37:37] truth and I'm glad she got her mother

[37:39] and herself out of trouble. I'm g glad

[37:41] you gave her that sweeping immunity. I'm

[37:42] glad for the whole thing. I I I it

[37:45] breaks my heart that she was ever

[37:46] involved in this.

[37:47] >> You may recall this was the testimony

[37:49] the president gave on the same day he

[37:51] talked to the nation later in the

[37:52] evening. Later in the evening, whatever

[37:54] transpired between then and his talk to

[37:57] the nation, he was very angry. The

[37:59] president's former chief of staff, Leon

[38:01] Petta, says he saw a familiar Bill

[38:03] Clinton during those four hours today.

[38:06] More often seen in private than in

[38:08] public. The flashes of anger, Mr. Petta

[38:10] says, the introspective president who

[38:12] can absorb information with amazing

[38:14] clarity. The impatient Bill Clinton and

[38:17] there was even room for some of the

[38:19] Clinton charm, Mr. Petta points out,

[38:22] very often a tight smile, but a smile

[38:24] nonetheless. and George Stephanopoulos,

[38:27] his former aid, now ABC News analyst,

[38:29] watches it particularly carefully today.

[38:32] Is this the pre do we see more of the

[38:34] president, the private president today

[38:35] than before?

[38:36] >> I think we did. You saw times when the

[38:38] president was nervous and he would

[38:39] clench his jaw. Uh what you didn't see,

[38:42] Peter, is the real red-faced out of

[38:44] control temper tantrum. The president

[38:46] was pretty able to keep himself in

[38:48] control. And there were also some other

[38:50] classic Clinton moments. You know, you

[38:51] just showed this litany where he kept

[38:52] saying, "I deplore. I deplore." Right

[38:55] after he finished that, he went to the

[38:57] prosecutors and said, "But let me say

[38:58] something sympathetic here." And

[39:00] actually put himself in the prosecutor's

[39:02] shoes. And that's a a very familiar uh

[39:05] Clinton maneuver.

[39:07] >> You told me earlier today the president

[39:08] could lose his his temper at you quite

[39:10] violently and you didn't take it

[39:12] seriously.

[39:12] >> Well, it's I didn't take it personally.

[39:14] I mean, the president usually loses his

[39:16] temper because a lot of pentup

[39:18] frustration is building up and I think

[39:20] that's actually what happened to him

[39:21] after this four hours of grand jury

[39:23] testimony. He kept himself in control

[39:26] during those four hours. Unfortunately,

[39:28] he lost a little bit of control when he

[39:30] went to the country and gave the speech

[39:31] later that night.

[39:32] >> Thanks, George. Sam Donaldson at the

[39:34] White House. A President Clinton that

[39:36] you recognize, Sam, in terms of

[39:38] demeanor.

[39:38] >> Well, Peter, as you know, this president

[39:40] is extremely skillful in connecting with

[39:42] people. Now, he knew he was on

[39:43] television. He was reaching out to the

[39:45] jurors several times during his

[39:46] testimony. He said, "Now the grand jury

[39:48] knows or I think the grand jury would

[39:50] think you saw a president who generally

[39:52] came across in the clips we just showed

[39:54] as a very forceful individual and people

[39:56] can look at him and say, "I think he's

[39:59] he's trying to tell it from the heart."

[40:01] But remember, he stood in the Roosevelt

[40:03] room and he wagged his finger and he

[40:04] appeared to be telling it from the heart

[40:05] when he said he had no sexual relations

[40:07] with Monica Lewinsky. So, who is the

[40:09] real Bill Clinton? That's the question

[40:11] to determine.

[40:12] >> Thank you, Sam. When we come back, the

[40:14] testimony of Monica Lewinsky, also made

[40:17] public today.

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[41:27] >> Life and death don't take weekends off.

[41:30] premieres Saturday, September 26th at 6

[41:32] p.m. on News 2. Watch Bob Mueller on

[41:35] News 2 at 5 and 10.

[41:43] And now, Monica Lewinsky. Transcripts of

[41:45] her testimony to the grand jury were

[41:47] released today at about the same time,

[41:48] in fact, at exactly the same time, the

[41:50] president's videotape testimony was

[41:52] being broadcast to the nation. Some of

[41:54] what Miss Lewinsky said was in the Star

[41:56] report released earlier to the Congress

[41:58] and a good deal more is found in her

[42:00] complete testimony today. And ABC's

[42:02] Chris Wallace joins us from Washington.

[42:04] Chris,

[42:05] >> Peter, there are no new bombshells in

[42:07] Monica Lewinsk's testimony, but it does

[42:09] explain from her point of view what was

[42:12] going on in their relationship. Much of

[42:14] it hurts the president, but some of it

[42:17] may actually help.

[42:20] When Lewinsky testified before the grand

[42:22] jury for the first time last month, she

[42:24] said she was nervous in taking

[42:26] anti-depressant medication that affected

[42:28] her short-term memory. But she laid out

[42:31] in great detail her relationship with

[42:33] the president, 11 pages of contacts that

[42:36] included nine instances of oral sex and

[42:39] more than 10 of phone sex. The president

[42:42] says there were fewer encounters and

[42:44] they began months later after she was no

[42:46] longer an intern. Lewinsky told the

[42:49] grand jury the relationship began when

[42:51] they saw each other at public events.

[42:53] Intense flirtation, she called it. By

[42:56] November of 95, she says they had a

[42:58] sexual relationship. These pictures were

[43:01] taken on November 17th, the day she says

[43:03] they had their second such encounter.

[43:06] Throughout her testimony, she says she

[43:08] loved the president. He always made me

[43:10] smile when I was with him. He was

[43:12] sunshine. Here in June of 96, she

[43:15] brought her family to the Oval Office to

[43:17] meet Mr. Clinton. But Lewinsky is

[43:20] defensive about that infamous dress that

[43:22] had the president's stain on it. It's a

[43:24] work dress, she says, not a cocktail

[43:26] dress. She denies saving it as a

[43:29] souvenir, saying she planned to wear it

[43:31] again months later, but that it no

[43:33] longer fit. When she told Linda Trip

[43:35] about the stain, she says Trip told her

[43:37] to put it in a safe deposit box.

[43:40] Instead, she sent it to her mother's

[43:41] apartment in New York.

[43:44] Lewis also describes how the

[43:46] relationship fell apart. She calls May

[43:48] 24th of 97 D-Day when the president

[43:51] dumped her. In this email to her friend

[43:54] last September, she writes, "I can't go

[43:56] through all this crap anymore. In some

[43:59] ways, I hope I never hear from him again

[44:01] because he'll just lead me on." And she

[44:04] says she was jealous of this picture of

[44:05] the Clintons together at the end of 97

[44:08] that it shows an aspect of their

[44:10] relationship he never revealed to her.

[44:13] >> But what set Lewinsky off most was the

[44:15] president's August 17th speech to the

[44:17] nation.

[44:18] >> Indeed, I did have a relationship with

[44:20] Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate.

[44:23] >> 3 days later, again before the grand

[44:24] jury, Lewinsky says until then, she

[44:27] thought she still loved him, but that

[44:29] she was hurt by his reported testimony.

[44:31] that this was a service contract, that

[44:33] all I did was perform oral sex on him. I

[44:37] thought it was a lot more than that.

[44:40] To the end, Lewinsky denied she had ever

[44:42] been asked to lie or was ever promised a

[44:45] job in return for her silence. And she

[44:47] ended her grand jury testimony with a

[44:49] simple statement. I hate Linda Trip.

[44:53] Peter,

[44:53] >> thanks very much. Chris Wallace in

[44:55] Washington. When we come back, the

[44:56] president and the people, namely public

[44:58] reaction.

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[47:10] As we said at the beginning, it's

[47:12] difficult to make judgments in depth

[47:13] this soon about public opinion, let

[47:15] alone its impact on the president's

[47:17] future. Which is not to say that people

[47:19] haven't had some pretty strong reaction

[47:21] to this today. We heard a little bit

[47:23] about it in Washington already. Here in

[47:24] New York, people from everywhere tend to

[47:27] visit Time Square. And ABC's Bill

[47:29] Blakemore was there today to listen.

[47:33] >> Around Times Square today, reactions

[47:35] were strong and varied. Someone who who

[47:37] doesn't have a memory or selective

[47:39] memory is not someone who I would like

[47:41] to see stay in the office.

[47:42] >> Enough is enough. He he lied. He

[47:45] apologized. Just let it go. I mean,

[47:47] there are other things to be doing right

[47:49] now.

[47:50] >> I don't want to know those details.

[47:52] >> But for everyone who did not want to

[47:53] know, we found someone who did.

[47:56] >> I don't want to accuse a person or feel

[47:59] like a person should be accused wrongly.

[48:01] and and and I feel that this really

[48:03] gives me the the facts about the

[48:06] situation, not people, not reporters

[48:08] conjecture or or the spin.

[48:10] >> Among the many who did not watch,

[48:12] reasons were also strong and varied.

[48:15] >> I'm not watching it.

[48:16] >> Why?

[48:17] >> I'm I'm protesting it because I didn't

[48:20] elect Bill Clinton to be my rabbi,

[48:22] priest, or pope. He's there to run the

[48:25] country. And I think it's in such poor

[48:27] taste to run those tapes.

[48:29] >> I haven't watched it. Why? because I

[48:31] have been long since totally disgusted

[48:33] with Bill Clinton in more uh severe

[48:37] terms than I can express.

[48:39] >> Across the country where they watched in

[48:41] a small town Colorado diner, two

[48:43] neighbors had the same differences.

[48:45] >> I mean, a lot of guys make mistakes.

[48:47] I've done it. I was married and I didn't

[48:48] want to tell my wife either.

[48:51] Leave him alone. Don't bother me a bit.

[48:54] >> I think he's done a good job.

[48:56] >> He's done a good job. Yeah.

[48:59] He should have never did what he did and

[49:00] lied about him.

[49:01] >> Did watching the tape today make a

[49:03] difference?

[49:04] >> He was a good man, but makes people

[49:06] wonder right now.

[49:08] >> In San Francisco, this man watched it on

[49:10] the internet and said it helped him make

[49:11] up his mind.

[49:13] >> Oh, I think he's in big trouble. He's He

[49:15] better resign. It's embarrassing for the

[49:18] country.

[49:18] >> But in Atlanta, one law student felt it

[49:21] improved Clinton's position.

[49:22] >> After reading the transcript on the

[49:24] internet, I thought that he was going to

[49:26] be lying. I thought he was going to look

[49:28] pretty bad. I think he actually looks a

[49:30] lot better.

[49:31] >> Another law student did not think so.

[49:34] >> Unfortunately, the terms oral sex and

[49:37] the like are now a part of our history,

[49:40] and I think that's sad, and I think that

[49:41] Bill Clinton is to blame for that.

[49:43] >> None we spoke with today seem to have

[49:45] changed their opinions because of the

[49:46] videotape, but it did seem to make

[49:49] opinions on both sides stronger. Bill

[49:52] Blakemore, ABC News, New York. One other

[49:55] very noticeable reaction to the

[49:56] president today at the UN General

[49:57] Assembly when the president walked in.

[50:00] He was given a standing ovation by the

[50:02] representatives from nearly 200

[50:03] countries. According to the delegates,

[50:06] some of it was admiration, some of it

[50:08] sympathy, some of it encouragement, some

[50:11] of it a way to say to Mr. Clinton that

[50:13] he should not lose sight of how

[50:15] important foreign policy is to the rest

[50:17] of the world. There is some other news

[50:20] today and we'll be back in just a

[50:22] moment.

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[50:57] >> Next, Donnie and Marie is nothing less

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[51:03] us.

[51:04] >> I know. Exactly.

[51:05] >> We've got Beverly Hills 902 and O's

[51:06] Brian Austin Green from the practice.

[51:08] Cameron Mannheim talking all about her

[51:10] Emmy win.

[51:11] >> Don't think she's a little thin. I think

[51:13] we need to beef her up a little bit.

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[51:17] >> Country superstar Leanne Rise in a very

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[51:21] next Donnie and Marie.

[51:23] >> Donnie and Marie tomorrow at 3 on News

[51:25] 2.

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[52:33] >> Starting September 22nd at 6:30 p.m. on

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[52:47] As we said, there's other news in

[52:49] California today. The sudden death of

[52:51] Olympic track star Florence Griffith

[52:53] Joiner. Her family says she died of a

[52:55] heart seizure at her home in Mission

[52:56] Viejo. She was only 38. Here's ABC's

[53:00] Judy Mueller.

[53:02] Florence Griffith Joiner says she took

[53:04] up running to set herself apart from her

[53:06] 10 siblings. She set herself apart all

[53:08] right from the whole field.

[53:10] >> Riding across at 2176.

[53:14] >> Always a standout for her style with her

[53:16] radical outfits and long nails. She

[53:18] finally stood out for her speed at the

[53:21] 1988 Olympic trials.

[53:23] >> Lawrence Griffith Joiner blowing away

[53:25] the field IN A 1049. Her world record in

[53:30] the 100 meter dash stunned the track

[53:32] world.

[53:32] >> Cannot be. No one can run that fast.

[53:36] >> Flojo, as her fans call her, went on to

[53:38] set another world record for the 200

[53:40] meter dash at the 88 Olympics. The times

[53:42] were so astonishing they prompted rumors

[53:44] that she'd been taking steroids.

[53:46] Griffith Joiner chocked up the rumors to

[53:48] competitive envy.

[53:49] >> Been something that has been a part of

[53:50] track and field since I've been in it.

[53:53] Rumors,

[53:54] um, petty jealousy. People are going to

[53:57] think what they want to think.

[53:58] >> Her death at the early age of 38 has

[54:00] raised new questions about her physical

[54:02] condition. Her husband says she died at

[54:04] their California home of what he called

[54:06] a heart seizure, which is not a precise

[54:08] medical term. An autopsies plan to try

[54:10] to determine the exact cause of death.

[54:13] Griffith Joiner retired from track just

[54:15] a year after her Olympic victory. She

[54:17] then had some success with acting and

[54:19] modeling, but nothing could match the

[54:20] flash of 88.

[54:22] >> She has a place in history. You cannot

[54:24] take her 1049 and her gold medals from

[54:27] her. She earned them. However she did

[54:30] it, she earned them.

[54:31] >> And to this day, her world records still

[54:34] stand. Judy Mueller, ABC News, Los

[54:36] Angeles.

[54:38] >> In Puerto Rico today, they're riding out

[54:40] one of the worst hurricanes in decades.

[54:42] Hurricane George, not George, but Gor

[54:45] with 110 mph winds did serious damage in

[54:48] the Virgin Islands before reaching

[54:49] Puerto Rico. before it made land.

[54:51] Thousands of people boarded up their

[54:53] homes and headed for shelters. If the

[54:55] hurricane sticks to its current path, it

[54:57] could reach the mainland US, the

[54:59] mainland US in just a few days. On Wall

[55:02] Street today, investors reacted to bad

[55:04] news on the Asian markets by selling off

[55:06] their stocks early in the day. But the

[55:08] Dow Jones Industrials recovered by the

[55:11] end of the day, gaining 37 points to

[55:13] close at 7933. On the NASDAQ index,

[55:16] stocks were up 16 points. We will be

[55:19] back in just a minute.

[55:27] >> Energy efficient appliances.

[55:28] >> I'd probably pay upwards 450 or so.

[55:31] >> What would you pay for an RV sub?

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[55:35] >> Would you believe any two subs for just

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[56:00] >> Thanks to a partnership between TVA, the

[56:03] community, and the local power company,

[56:05] not to mention the low price of

[56:07] electricity, Boeing is building a new

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[56:24] After all, they're just rocket

[56:26] scientists.

[56:30] Each new day brings more new fun.

[56:34] Memories in the making.

[56:36] >> Seems like every day the kids just do

[56:38] something that I want to take a picture

[56:39] of. Every smile's a special one, a

[56:43] treasure for the taking.

[56:46] >> I can't wait around for specials. I

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[56:59] >> What makes sexy?

[57:01] >> Provocative. Does she have a pulse?

[57:03] >> Even the celebrities tell all in a

[57:05] special you can really get excited

[57:07] about. You like to watch, don't you?

[57:09] >> Sex with Cindy Crawford. ABC Premiere

[57:12] Tuesday.

[57:16] >> Well, this has been a special edition of

[57:18] World News Tonight because for the first

[57:19] time in the nation's history, we saw a

[57:21] president testify to a grand jury. 4

[57:24] hours on tape, Mr. Clinton's August 17th

[57:26] testimony. Today, it was broadcast for

[57:29] the world to see. And as best we can

[57:30] tell, a great many people watched. There

[57:32] was, yes, quite a lot about sex. At

[57:34] least that was the background. The

[57:36] president refused to answer many of the

[57:37] more uncomfortable questions directly

[57:39] and there is no way to predict at this

[57:41] early stage what the impact will be on

[57:43] public opinion or what's going to happen

[57:45] when the Congress returns. That is our

[57:48] report for this evening. Thank you for

[57:50] joining us. Later this evening, there'll

[57:51] be a special 1-hour edition of Night

[57:52] Line asking the question, will the

[57:55] president's televised testimony change

[57:57] minds? I'm Peter Jennings. See you

[58:00] tomorrow.

[58:08] Tomorrow we have to work to make a

[58:10] living. But some people say 9 to5 is

[58:13] out. So what do we do? Watch ABC's World

[58:16] News Tonight with Peter Jennings. This

[58:18] has been a presentation of ABC News.

[58:21] More Americans get their news from ABC

[58:23] News than from any other source. ABC

[58:26] News. Now.