PBS NewsHour - 2009-02-16

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:11] [music]

[0:20] Good evening. I'm Judy Woodruff. On the

[0:21] NewsHour this President's Day with our

[0:23] NewsHour team, the lead story. The

[0:26] deepening global recession strikes home

[0:28] [music] as four business reporters

[0:30] anticipate what the economic stimulus

[0:32] plan will mean [music] for their states.

[0:35] Then the rest of the news of the day.

[0:36] Two foreign stories. A look at the

[0:39] implications of the weekend vote in

[0:40] Venezuela lifting term limits. [music]

[0:43] And NPR's Steve Eninskeep on ordinary

[0:46] Iranians and their lives 30 years after

[0:49] the Islamic Revolution. Plus, one

[0:52] Southern [music] California family's

[0:54] foreclosure story. And from Montana,

[0:57] some perspective on today's woes from

[0:59] the country's oldest living man,

[1:01] 112year-old Walter Bruning.

[1:06] Major funding for the NewsHour [music]

[1:08] with Jim Ler is provided by.

[1:12] >> The world is changing and how we use

[1:16] energy today cannot be how we use it

[1:18] tomorrow. There is no one solution. It's

[1:22] not simply more oil, more renewables,

[1:24] [music]

[1:25] or being more efficient.

[1:27] It's all of it. Our way of life depends

[1:30] on developing all forms of energy and to

[1:33] use less of it. It's time to put our

[1:36] differences aside. Will you be [music]

[1:38] part of the solution? Chevron, human

[1:40] energy.

[1:43] Grant Thornton

[1:46] and the National [music] Science

[1:48] Foundation supporting education and

[1:50] research across all fields of science

[1:52] and engineering.

[1:57] and with the ongoing support of these

[1:59] institutions and foundations. [music]

[2:05] And

[2:06] this [music] program was made possible

[2:08] by the Corporation for Public

[2:10] Broadcasting and by contributions to

[2:13] your PBS [music] station from viewers

[2:14] like you. Thank you.

[2:20] >> There was no respit from recession on

[2:22] this holiday Monday in the US. Japan

[2:25] reported an even deeper recession than

[2:27] in Europe and America, and world markets

[2:30] shuttered. Tom Bearden has our lead

[2:32] story tonight.

[2:34] The bad economic numbers kept rolling in

[2:37] today, this time from the world's second

[2:39] largest economy. The worst than expected

[2:41] figures in Japan showed economic

[2:43] activity contracted at a 3.3% rate in

[2:46] the fourth quarter of 2008. It's the

[2:49] worst number since the oil shock of

[2:51] 1974. Caoru Yasano, Japan's economic

[2:54] minister, spoke in Tokyo.

[2:58] >> And there is no doubt that we are facing

[2:59] the worst economic crisis in the

[3:01] post-war era.

[3:03] >> There was no reaction on US markets

[3:05] closed for President's Day, but markets

[3:07] across Asia and Europe fell. All this

[3:09] came as Secretary of State Hillary

[3:11] Clinton arrived in Tokyo, beginning her

[3:13] maiden voyage as America's chief

[3:15] diplomat. The US Japanese alliance is

[3:18] vitally important to both of our

[3:21] countries, to the Asia-Pacific region,

[3:23] and to the world. And our partnership

[3:26] stretches back half a century. Its

[3:29] foundation has been and always will be a

[3:33] commitment to our shared security and

[3:36] prosperity.

[3:37] But we also know that we have to work

[3:40] together uh to address the global

[3:43] financial crisis which is affecting all

[3:45] of us.

[3:46] >> In fact, two household names from Japan,

[3:49] Toyota and Sony have already announced

[3:51] deep job cuts and there is deepening

[3:53] worry over the country's banks.

[3:55] Economist Adam Posen is a veteran Japan

[3:58] watcher at the Peterson Institute.

[4:00] >> The real message for the broader world

[4:01] is twofold. First, there's no escape. uh

[4:04] Japan's banks actually had made very few

[4:07] mistakes as compared to European or

[4:09] American banks this cycle and the

[4:11] country is still being dragged down by

[4:12] the global developments. And the second

[4:14] thing is which is unfortunate is the

[4:16] data is starting to get away from us in

[4:19] the sense that most of us who were

[4:20] forecasting were not expecting things to

[4:22] get this much worse. So this is real

[4:24] news.

[4:25] >> Over the weekend, US Treasury Secretary

[4:27] Tim Gner underscored the need for global

[4:29] action in talks with major industrial

[4:31] nations. It's very important to the

[4:33] United States and I think it's important

[4:35] to the world economy as a whole that the

[4:37] major economies together move to put in

[4:40] place as forceful a package of fiscal

[4:44] actions as they can to help get recovery

[4:46] back. The meetings ended without

[4:48] concrete proposals for any coordinated

[4:51] moves. US efforts to boost the economy

[4:53] are now tied heavily to the president's

[4:55] stimulus bill which Congress approved on

[4:57] Friday. Adam Posen says the package gets

[5:00] money where it's needed most acutely.

[5:02] The biggest thing this package does is

[5:04] get money directly to state and local

[5:06] governments. And that's the best thing

[5:07] for many reasons. First, state and local

[5:09] governments face hard budget

[5:11] constraints. So they start furlowing or

[5:12] laying off workers or cutting back

[5:14] services the minute they run out of

[5:16] money. If you give them federal

[5:17] government money or loans, they

[5:19] immediately stop doing that. So that's a

[5:21] huge boost.

[5:22] >> Another major focus for the Obama

[5:24] administration is the government aid

[5:26] plan for Chrysler and General Motors.

[5:28] Both companies are scheduled to present

[5:30] formal plans tomorrow for the use of the

[5:32] $17 billion they've received.

[5:35] Originally, a single car was to guide

[5:37] the industry's restructuring, but the

[5:39] administration reportedly jettisoned

[5:41] that plan. Instead, Secretary Gitener

[5:44] and Lawrence Summers, the White House

[5:45] economic adviser, will chair an auto

[5:47] task force. White House press secretary

[5:50] Robert Gibbs. The approach that the

[5:52] administration has settled on, I think

[5:54] provides

[5:57] uh

[5:59] a vast amount of expertise that crosses

[6:02] a number of governmental agencies and

[6:05] departments and brings in uh the vast

[6:08] amount of experience

[6:10] uh that the administration has to deal

[6:13] with uh the auto restructuring uh any

[6:16] auto restructuring issues.

[6:18] Gibbs spoke aboard Air Force One today

[6:20] as the president returned to Washington

[6:22] after a weekend in his hometown,

[6:24] Chicago. But Mr. Obama won't be in town

[6:27] long. He leaves again tomorrow for

[6:29] Denver, where he will sign into law the

[6:31] $787 billion stimulus bill.

[6:35] >> That stimulus bill is being studied

[6:36] intently by state officials who hope the

[6:39] economic jumpstart will bring relief.

[6:42] For a read on what different states

[6:43] expect, we asked four journalists who

[6:45] follow the economy to join us again.

[6:48] Kathy Kristoff is a syndicated personal

[6:50] business columnist in Los Angeles. The

[6:53] latest figures show California has a

[6:55] 9.3% unemployment rate. Last year at

[6:58] this time, it was 5.9%.

[7:01] Keith Reid is the editor of Catalyst

[7:03] Ohio magazine and writes on financial

[7:06] issues. Statewide, Ohio is at 7.8% 8%

[7:10] unemployment near the national average.

[7:12] That's a jump from 5.8% the previous

[7:15] December. Shirley Lung is a business

[7:17] editor at the Boston Globe.

[7:19] Massachusetts has a 6.9% unemployment

[7:22] rate, up from 4.3% a year ago. And Doug

[7:27] Smith writes on the economy for the

[7:29] Charlotte Observer. Statewide

[7:30] unemployment in North Carolina is 8.7%.

[7:34] That's up four percentage points from

[7:36] the same time last year. Thank you all

[7:39] four of you for joining us. And Kathy

[7:41] Kristoff, let's start in the West with

[7:43] you. Your situation in California is

[7:45] among the most difficult. High home

[7:48] foreclosure rates, high unemployment, a

[7:50] budget crisis. What is California

[7:53] looking for? First of all, what does

[7:55] California need and what is it going to

[7:57] get from this stimulus bill? Well,

[7:59] California is looking for a miracle. Um,

[8:02] we're probably not going to get that,

[8:03] but we're going to get some aid. Um,

[8:05] we're going to get a high speed speed

[8:07] rail project which will be important. We

[8:09] get some help in education, in health

[8:12] care, in clean energy. All of these are

[8:15] very important to our state. And also

[8:18] extremely importantly, we're extending

[8:20] unemployment benefits, which for a state

[8:23] with a 9.3% unemployment rate is huge.

[8:26] And um providing some subsidies for

[8:28] COBRA insurance, which again is huge,

[8:31] and Medicaid. So all of these are are

[8:33] very big ticket items to the state.

[8:35] >> Cobra insurance of course a reference to

[8:38] uh to medical costs. Keith Reed, let's

[8:40] move east to Ohio. Unemployment there

[8:44] 7.8%.

[8:46] Take us inside uh your situation. What

[8:49] are the needs and what are you in Ohio

[8:51] looking for from the stimulus bill?

[8:53] >> Well, just like uh in California, we

[8:56] have many many needs here in Ohio. Uh

[8:58] you said that we've got a relatively

[9:00] high uh unemployment rate. Many parts of

[9:02] the state are suffering because of job

[9:04] losses. Uh DHL laid off almost an entire

[9:07] town in the southern part of Ohio uh

[9:09] just about a month and a half ago. Uh we

[9:11] we need help with with unemployment. We

[9:14] need some help with uh with health

[9:15] insurance. We need help particularly in

[9:17] the northern part of the state with with

[9:18] foreclosures. Here in the Cleveland area

[9:20] where I am right now, uh we've got a a a

[9:23] strong number, many foreclosures. Uh the

[9:25] housing market has completely entirely

[9:27] tanked. If you talk to some real estate

[9:29] agents around here, they will tell you

[9:31] uh that on Sundays when they have open

[9:33] houses, very few people are coming

[9:35] through. Uh there are many houses that

[9:37] are that are underwater. People who for

[9:39] people who are living in them and are

[9:40] still making their payments on time,

[9:42] they're paying for houses that are that

[9:43] haven't for quite some time been worth

[9:46] uh what they're what they're actually

[9:47] paying or worth the value of the uh of

[9:49] the loan that they still owe. Uh so Ohio

[9:51] has has a great many needs. There are

[9:53] also infrastructure needs here in Ohio.

[9:56] Uh just to the south again outside

[9:58] Cincinnati, there was a bridge uh on

[10:00] Interstate 275 that needed a major

[10:02] repair at the end of last year. There's

[10:04] a bridge here that leads into uh the

[10:06] Cleveland area that needs that's in uh

[10:08] leads into downtown Cleveland. In fact,

[10:11] uh that needs repair. These things have

[10:12] been happening as the state uh can

[10:14] afford to to fix them. uh but not really

[10:18] a massive comprehensive uh overhaul of

[10:20] of the state's transportation and

[10:22] infrastructure network. Uh all of these

[10:24] things are needs and they and of course

[10:26] uh they all come at the at the same time

[10:27] that the state has a massive budget

[10:29] shortfall. Uh so you've got

[10:30] unemployment, you've got infrastructure,

[10:32] you've got housing, you've got all these

[10:33] things happening at the same time. Uh

[10:35] many needs that the state has uh right

[10:37] here in Ohio right now.

[10:38] >> So not looking for all of those to be

[10:40] met, but for some of them in any event

[10:43] from this stimulus bill. Let me move to

[10:44] Boston now. and Shirley lung

[10:47] unemployment rate there somewhat below

[10:49] the national average but well above what

[10:52] it was a year ago take us inside the

[10:54] situation in Massachusetts and what you

[10:57] expect

[10:58] >> yes it's very similar across the country

[11:00] what's happening um you know

[11:02] Massachusetts um we really we're getting

[11:04] about $12 billion from the stimulus plan

[11:07] uh this will help with uh extending

[11:08] unemployment benefits this will also uh

[11:11] help towns uh dig out from deficits um

[11:14] also some money will go to fix uh roads

[11:17] and uh bridges and build new schools. If

[11:19] there's one thing we could use more

[11:21] money from is is the infrastructure

[11:23] part. Um one of the things that hasn't

[11:26] been really talked about but we've

[11:27] talked about here in Massachusetts is

[11:29] that some of that public money will

[11:31] actually help spur private development.

[11:33] I mean, think about all those stalled

[11:35] condo, hotel, retail projects that uh

[11:38] have broken ground but can't get done

[11:40] because uh they couldn't get financing

[11:42] or the last chunk of financing because

[11:44] of the markets. Well, some of these

[11:46] projects here have public

[11:48] infrastructure. For example, they may

[11:49] have a train station component to it and

[11:52] those are the projects that really uh

[11:54] can create a lot of d jobs um in the

[11:57] area and uh Massachusetts could use a

[11:59] little bit more money there. Also um

[12:01] just like California uh we're getting a

[12:04] lot of money uh we could get stand see a

[12:07] lot of money from uh money being poured

[12:09] into clean energy and um and also health

[12:12] care and hospitals and upgrading of

[12:15] medical uh research. Uh we already get a

[12:18] lot of NH funding. There's supposed to

[12:19] be more money towards that. So we could

[12:21] uh benefit from that. So this is a

[12:23] stimulus plan that Massachusetts needs.

[12:25] to Charlotte uh and Doug Smith. Uh you

[12:28] heard what the others have said. Pretty

[12:30] much the same things needed in North

[12:32] Carolina. What what would be different?

[12:35] >> Yeah, ve very similar. The uh North

[12:37] Carolina hopes to get a rapid rail

[12:39] transit line that would run from

[12:41] Virginia through North Carolina to

[12:42] Georgia. It has a list of about 6.1 uh

[12:47] billion in projects. Of course, probably

[12:49] not all those going to get done, but the

[12:50] governor is is wanting to appoint a

[12:54] special panel to oversee spending

[12:56] because she believes that we uh in North

[12:58] Carolina could spend it faster and maybe

[13:00] she says go back for a second bite of

[13:03] the apple. Uh there's also money in in

[13:05] our program uh and what the state wants

[13:08] uh for Medicare schools. Uh we need it

[13:11] for uh public schools and for higher

[13:13] education. Some schools are facing major

[13:15] cutbacks. uh school facilities need to

[13:18] be upgraded. Some systems have had to

[13:20] cut their budgets.

[13:21] >> And and and let me circle back now to

[13:24] Kathy Kristoff in uh in Los Angeles.

[13:26] You've all listed some a pretty

[13:29] impressive list of needs. How quickly do

[13:32] officials there think they're actually

[13:34] going to get this money and get it into

[13:36] the economy so that jobs start getting

[13:39] produced, the state budgets begin

[13:42] looking healthier?

[13:43] >> Um I wish I knew. um our state

[13:46] legislature is amazingly inefficient and

[13:49] so if it relies in any way on taking

[13:52] that money and doing something with it

[13:55] um through legislative action, we're

[13:57] going to have difficulty getting

[13:59] anything done. But um I think

[14:01] everybody's hoping that in the next 6

[14:04] months to a year, you're going to start

[14:07] to see projects funded and you're going

[14:09] to start to alleviate a little bit of

[14:10] the state budget crisis simply by doing

[14:13] simple things like extending

[14:15] unemployment benefits. That means more

[14:17] people in our state will have more money

[14:19] to spend. Um and that adds to our tax

[14:22] revenue base and so it immediately

[14:25] alleviates a portion of the problem. and

[14:27] Keith Reed in Ohio. What's the sense

[14:29] there of how quickly this money can make

[14:32] a difference and then begin to turn

[14:34] people's confidence in the future to

[14:37] change people's

[14:39] >> I think that's that's two very distinct

[14:41] questions. How quickly can the money

[14:43] begin to make a difference? Uh I believe

[14:45] that uh here in the state of Ohio they

[14:47] could spend that money probably as

[14:49] quickly as they can get it. Now, how

[14:50] long it'll take to get here from

[14:52] Washington DC is is another order

[14:54] altogether. But there's a long laundry

[14:55] list of of things that Governor

[14:57] Strickland would like to do with that

[14:59] money uh high at the top of that list.

[15:00] He's got a a huge uh school reform

[15:04] package that he that he's uh put some

[15:06] money in his budget for. He'd like to

[15:07] see there's about I think uh 1.5 billion

[15:10] or so uh in the in the stimulus package

[15:12] that they're hoping to get uh for

[15:14] education here in Ohio, for example.

[15:16] Well, there are any number of projects

[15:18] that are already in the governor's

[15:19] budget that he'd like to fund and they'd

[15:21] like to get moving with as soon as they

[15:23] can get the money. Now, how quickly that

[15:24] will actually translate into uh greater

[15:27] confidence uh here in the state among

[15:29] consumers, among workers, that's a

[15:31] different story. People are very

[15:32] discouraged. People are very uh angry

[15:35] quite honestly at at what happened with

[15:36] the TARP bill uh in Washington. And I

[15:38] hear comments every day from people

[15:40] about how much money is going to uh uh

[15:42] bank CEO bonuses and and those sorts of

[15:45] things and how there's little very

[15:46] little accountability and people are

[15:48] worried about that. So I don't know that

[15:50] uh that even a quick spend a quick fix

[15:53] with this money will translate very very

[15:56] rapidly uh to confidence among some

[15:59] disaffected workers.

[16:00] >> And Shirley Long in in Boston, what is

[16:03] the sense there from talking to local

[16:04] officials? Do they feel this money is

[16:07] going to make a tangible difference?

[16:10] >> Um, I think so. I mean, but the problem

[16:12] is this. There the governor's list has

[16:14] 8,000 projects, $28 billion of uh uh I

[16:18] guess on their wish list, and we

[16:20] probably will only get about 2 billion.

[16:22] So, it'll take a long time to figure out

[16:24] which projects to fund. Um, I mean, if

[16:27] the governor uh wanted to quickly uh I

[16:30] guess instill some confidence, perhaps

[16:32] he'll just pick some marquee projects to

[16:34] quickly fund just to get things going

[16:36] and make people feel better and then

[16:38] work out the details for some of the

[16:40] smaller projects.

[16:41] >> And same question uh to Doug Smith in

[16:43] Charlotte. From talking to people there,

[16:45] from talking to officials, how much do

[16:48] they believe this is going to make a

[16:49] difference and how soon?

[16:51] >> Oh, I I think they will. the uh city and

[16:54] county in here in Charlotte expected to

[16:56] create about 27 to 28,000 jobs. The

[17:00] state's estimate is 100,000 jobs if it's

[17:03] full wish list gets done. Uh the

[17:05] question is, as you said, um many of

[17:07] these projects are labeled shovel ready,

[17:10] but exactly what does that mean? How

[17:12] quickly could they get going? Shovel

[17:14] ready. U if it were a city project or

[17:17] government project, you would still have

[17:18] to bid it out, find a contractor. you're

[17:21] still so you're still talking 3 to 6

[17:23] months out before anything probably

[17:25] could really happen on the state level.

[17:27] The governor is hoping that um rapid uh

[17:31] start would be within one year to get

[17:33] going on the projects.

[17:34] >> And and just staying with you quickly,

[17:36] Doug Smith, in terms of a a sense of

[17:39] confidence that that Washington's doing

[17:41] the right thing or not, what's your

[17:44] what's your read on that?

[17:46] >> Well, I I think it's sort of like um a

[17:48] trip to the dentist. um you know you

[17:51] need to get something done about your

[17:52] toothache, but you don't know how it's

[17:55] going to turn out. And I think that's

[17:57] that's kind of the mood here. Not not

[17:59] just my my mood. Um we're pretty evenly

[18:02] split here between the Republican views

[18:04] and the Democratic views, but um I I

[18:07] think there's so much red tape involved

[18:09] in this and so many questions yet to be

[18:11] answered that I don't know. I I don't

[18:14] know how it's going to turn out and I

[18:15] don't know if anybody else would make a

[18:17] prediction on what's going to happen

[18:18] with it. Shirley Long, uh, back to you,

[18:21] uh, in Boston. The, what's the sense

[18:24] there overall in terms of whether this

[18:27] can begin to turn things around? I

[18:29] >> I people just accepting the idea that

[18:31] it's going to take time.

[18:33] >> I I think I don't I think stimulus is

[18:35] just part one or part two, whatever. I

[18:38] guess if you count TARP as being part

[18:40] one, but it's going to take um I don't

[18:42] think anyone's um thinks that this is

[18:45] the stimulus plan is is is the the

[18:48] silver bullet to our problems. I mean, I

[18:50] think it's going to take several

[18:51] trillions of dollars and uh this is

[18:54] just, you know, just one phase of the

[18:57] recovery. Um I mean, people are bracing

[19:00] for um hard times and um I mean, you'll

[19:04] just see what's going to happen next

[19:05] week. I mean, once Obama signs stim the

[19:07] stimulus plan into law, it's not like

[19:09] banks are going to s suddenly be lending

[19:12] uh like it was two years ago or um uh

[19:15] companies aren't aren't going to

[19:17] suddenly feel confident enough to uh

[19:19] begin hiring instead of laying off. I

[19:21] mean, I think everyone is really uh uh

[19:24] hunkering down for a long recovery.

[19:26] Keith Reed and Kathy Kristoff, let me

[19:28] let each of you just give me a sentence

[19:30] on how you think uh the the sense of

[19:32] confidence there is that things will get

[19:34] better.

[19:36] Well, I I think in in one sentence,

[19:38] people are hopeful, but people are

[19:39] resentful. Uh they're they're very

[19:41] resentful that of uh telegraphing what

[19:44] Shirley said that uh it is going to

[19:46] actually take several trillions of

[19:47] dollars to get this problem fixed. And

[19:49] they know that that money is coming from

[19:51] uh tax coffers. They want the problem to

[19:53] be fixed. They would hope that this

[19:55] stimulus bill would do it, but they know

[19:56] that's it's not going to do it. It's

[19:58] probably not going to happen in 2009,

[20:00] and that makes people angry.

[20:01] >> And Kathy Kristoff, back to you in

[20:03] California. It's a huge gamble. We're

[20:05] all hoping that the gamble works out,

[20:08] but we don't know. And if it doesn't, it

[20:10] could be very inflationary and it could

[20:13] actually create bigger problems than it

[20:15] solves. Well, we are going to leave it

[20:17] there and I want to thank you all for

[20:19] Kathy Kristoff in Los Angeles, Keith

[20:22] Reed in Ohio, Shirley Lung in Boston,

[20:24] and Doug Smith in Charlotte. We

[20:26] appreciate it.

[20:35] In other news today, the California

[20:37] legislature went back to work on a 42

[20:39] billion deficit after a marathon

[20:42] weekend. Democrats have struggled to win

[20:44] over enough Republicans for spending

[20:46] cuts, tax increases, and new borrowing.

[20:49] The state has already delayed tax refund

[20:51] checks, and furled state employees.

[20:55] Illinois Democratic Senator Roland

[20:56] Burrus denied today that he covered up

[20:59] his contacts with ousted Governor Rod

[21:01] Blgoyovich. Over the weekend, Burus

[21:04] released an affidavit in it. He

[21:06] acknowledged that Robert Bleggoyovich,

[21:08] the governor's brother, asked for

[21:10] campaign fundraising help. That was

[21:12] before Burus was named to the Senate.

[21:15] Today, Burus said he was never directly

[21:17] asked about Robert Bgoyovich during the

[21:19] governor's impeachment.

[21:21] When we got the transcript, it was

[21:24] determined that I had said yes in the

[21:26] transcript to all those names, but we

[21:28] had not addressed those names. So that

[21:30] what's prompted me then to make the

[21:32] decision to file a separate affidavit

[21:35] that would show who we talked to and

[21:38] what we said. There was no change of any

[21:41] of our testimony. We followed up as we

[21:44] promised the impeachment committee. We

[21:46] have done everything here that we said

[21:49] that we were going to do. Bur said on

[21:51] Sunday he declined to raise money for

[21:54] the governor to avoid any appearance of

[21:56] influencing the Senate appointment.

[21:58] North Korea today rejected pressure not

[22:01] to conduct a long range missile test.

[22:03] Instead, the state-run news agency said

[22:05] any launch would be part of what it

[22:07] called quote space development involving

[22:10] satellites. The US, Japan, and South

[22:13] Korea have repeatedly urged North Korea

[22:16] not to launch any missiles. The British

[22:19] Navy confirmed today that British and

[22:21] French nuclear missile submarines

[22:23] collided earlier this month. We have a

[22:25] report from Jane Dodge of Independent

[22:27] Television News.

[22:29] HMS Vanguard and Litrial were on patrol

[22:32] in the Atlantic. Their exact location

[22:35] remains a military secret. Once they'd

[22:37] arrived at their destination, their

[22:39] sonar equipment would have been switched

[22:41] off to avoid detection.

[22:43] Their crews would have been relying on

[22:45] microphones to avoid a collision. On

[22:47] this occasion, that system, for some

[22:49] reason, didn't work. These two

[22:51] submarines had more than 100 nuclear

[22:53] warheads on board between them. Each one

[22:56] six times more powerful than the

[22:58] Hiroshima bomb. The Navy's top man came

[23:01] clean today, acknowledging there had

[23:03] been a collision. But it came nearly 2

[23:05] weeks after the event and following a

[23:08] front page story in today's Sun

[23:10] newspaper. Two submerged strategic

[23:12] submarines, one French and one United

[23:14] Kingdom, were conducting routine

[23:16] national patrols in the Atlantic Ocean.

[23:19] A few days ago, the submarines came into

[23:22] contact at very slow speed. Both

[23:25] submarines remained safe and no injuries

[23:28] occurred.

[23:30] We can confirm the capability remained

[23:32] unaffected and there was no compromise

[23:35] to nuclear safety.

[23:37] >> HMS Vanguard is now back at Fazlain

[23:39] Naval Base. the extent of the damage a

[23:42] closely guarded secret. But tonight,

[23:44] revelations from the French are likely

[23:46] to cause even more embarrassment. They

[23:48] say neither side realized that they'd

[23:50] collided with another submarine until

[23:53] they'd got home.

[23:54] >> Both countries said their submarines

[23:56] were on routine patrol missions when the

[23:58] accident happened. Pakistan today agreed

[24:01] to impose Islamic law in part of the

[24:04] country in a bid to pacify Taliban

[24:06] insurgents. The government will also

[24:08] halt a military offensive in the region,

[24:11] including the Swat Valley in the

[24:13] northwest frontier province. Officials

[24:15] settled on the concessions during

[24:17] meetings with a pro Taliban group.

[24:20] Militants welcomed the deal and

[24:21] announced a 10-day ceasefire to start.

[24:24] US officials have complained that

[24:26] similar agreements in the past let the

[24:28] Taliban rearm. Apparent US missile

[24:32] strikes targeted Taliban leaders today.

[24:35] One in Pakistan killed up to 30 people

[24:37] near the Afghan border. The other was in

[24:40] Afghanistan, near the border with Turk

[24:42] Menistan. Afghan officials said it

[24:45] killed a top Taliban commander. Also

[24:47] today, a NATO soldier died of wounds in

[24:50] eastern Afghanistan. Most of the troops

[24:53] deployed there are Americans. To Iraq,

[24:56] where roadside bombs killed eight Shiite

[24:59] pilgrims in Baghdad. It was the latest

[25:01] in a series of attacks on Shiites who

[25:04] attended a major religious festival in

[25:06] Carbala. 60 pilgrims were killed last

[25:09] week.

[25:16] And still to come on the NewsHour

[25:18] tonight, lifting presidential term

[25:20] limits in Venezuela. The Iranian Islamic

[25:23] Revolution 30 years on. One family's

[25:27] foreclosure story. and a conversation

[25:30] with Walter. Margaret Warner has the

[25:32] Venezuela story.

[25:34] >> Venezuelans gave their president Ugo

[25:37] Chavez a huge victory yesterday, voting

[25:40] to eliminate term limits and clearing

[25:42] the way for him to run for reelection

[25:44] indefinitely with 94% of the votes

[25:47] counted. Official results showed the

[25:49] measure passing 54 to 46%.

[25:53] The public reaction was as divided as

[25:55] the electorate.

[25:58] It's great. I knew the yes vote was

[25:59] going to win. What else is there?

[26:02] >> Personally, I don't agree, but if he

[26:04] won, what can I do?

[26:06] >> Chavez said the vote would free him to

[26:08] complete the socialist revolution of

[26:10] Venezuela that he embarked on more than

[26:13] a decade ago. Since taking office in

[26:16] 1998, Chavez has used Venezuela's vast

[26:19] oil wealth to finance social programs

[26:22] for the poor, including free health

[26:24] clinics and subsidized food stores.

[26:27] He's also made himself known by his

[26:29] verbal insults against the United States

[26:32] and former President Bush. Though this

[26:35] weekend, Chavez said he was ready to

[26:37] pursue a quote rap with President Obama.

[26:41] And for more on yesterday's vote and its

[26:44] significance, we turn to Christopher

[26:45] Sabatini, senior director of policy at

[26:48] the Americas Society, a New York-based

[26:51] think tank focused on Latin America.

[26:53] He's also editor-inchief of its

[26:55] magazine, the Americas Quarterly. And

[26:58] Shannon O'Neal, a fellow for Latin

[26:59] American studies at the Council on

[27:01] Foreign Relations. She recently directed

[27:04] a council sponsored task force on US

[27:06] policy toward Latin America. Thank you

[27:09] both. Mr. Sabatini, let me start with

[27:11] you. How significant a victory is this

[27:14] for Ugo Chavez and for his agenda?

[27:17] >> It's significant because well only a few

[27:20] months earlier, 15 months earlier, the

[27:22] exact same uh amendment to allow him to

[27:25] run indefinitely had been defeated. So

[27:27] this time he came back and he won. So in

[27:30] that sense, it is very significant in

[27:31] terms of his agenda to be able to stay

[27:33] in power now potentially uh

[27:35] indefinitely. But for the opposition,

[27:37] this is not the end of the road. uh they

[27:39] lost they lost clearly but first of all

[27:42] Ugo Chavez lost a certain percentage

[27:45] over just about 10%age of the votes from

[27:46] when he won the election so obviously

[27:48] he's becoming less popular but second

[27:50] the opposition will get several more

[27:52] times to be able to compete in the

[27:53] elections you've got the national

[27:55] assembly elections coming up and then of

[27:57] course there'll be the presidential

[27:58] elections in 2012 and with the way the

[28:00] economy is going I think they're going

[28:02] to be in much better position to compete

[28:04] in those elections especially if they

[28:06] have really a coherent front to uh to

[28:09] compete electorally.

[28:10] >> Shannon O'Neal, how do you explain the

[28:13] fact that uh as Mr. Sabatini just said

[28:17] 14- 15 months ago, a similar measure

[28:19] went down to defeat and Chavez turned it

[28:22] around. What do you think explains it?

[28:24] >> Well, there are a lot of reasons. The

[28:26] last referendum wasn't just about this

[28:27] issue. It was about a lot of issues and

[28:29] so people voted against it. This

[28:31] particular referendum is just about the

[28:33] ability to be reelected. Now, when they

[28:36] first put this on the table, it was

[28:37] about just Chavez's re-election. But

[28:39] about three, four weeks ago, Chavez

[28:41] opened it up. So, it was about

[28:42] re-election of all politicians to allow

[28:44] every politician in Venezuela to be

[28:46] reelected. And that really brought a lot

[28:48] of people on board, a lot of supporters

[28:50] in public office on board. And so, there

[28:52] there was a lot of movement and

[28:53] mobilization for the yes vote. And and

[28:56] staying with you for Miss O'Neal, how

[28:59] free and fair, to use the phrase, was

[29:02] this election both in the campaign

[29:03] leading up to it and election day? Well,

[29:06] election day was very free and fair.

[29:09] Almost every observer, both critics and

[29:11] supporters say the ballots worked, the

[29:13] electoral machinery worked, and it was

[29:15] fair. Now, the campaign is probably a

[29:18] different story. It was definitely

[29:20] skewed towards the yes vote.

[29:22] Mobilization happened both from the

[29:24] presidency, from Chavez himself, but

[29:26] also from the legislative branch, from

[29:27] the judiciary branch and from stateowned

[29:29] enterprises and particularly from P de

[29:31] Vesa, which is the national oil company.

[29:34] People in that oil company were really

[29:36] mobilized to bring out the votes. So we

[29:38] see a difference in terms of the

[29:40] campaign side though when you come down

[29:41] to election day yesterday, it was fair.

[29:44] Christopher Sabatini, we read that

[29:46] there, you know, inflation is something

[29:48] like what, 30% now in Venezuela. That

[29:51] crime is up. What explains

[29:55] Chavez's enduring popularity? Yes, he

[29:57] only won by 9 10%, but that would be

[30:00] considered a landslide most places.

[30:02] >> I think there are three things. First of

[30:04] all, uh he maintains about a 30%

[30:07] hardcore support. And those are people

[30:09] who really see Chavez as being a savior

[30:11] who voted for him in 1998 and originally

[30:14] and have stuck with him largely because

[30:16] they see him as an antidote to the

[30:18] corrupt uh two-party system that

[30:20] preceded him. But there's also the

[30:22] issue, and Chavez played on this very

[30:23] very well, that it's either Chavez or no

[30:27] one. there really is a vacuum both

[30:29] underneath underneath Chavez within his

[30:31] own movement but also in the opposition

[30:34] and so for many voters even for the

[30:36] around 30% who reject Chavez but also

[30:39] reject the opposition there's a real

[30:41] unknown and so many people when they

[30:43] were voting just yesterday they were

[30:45] voting because they simply don't know

[30:46] what comes next with rising crime levels

[30:48] as you mentioned Margaret with the issue

[30:50] of inflation there's a sense of what

[30:52] happens next but there's a third element

[30:55] as well and that has to do with just a

[30:57] sense

[30:57] that Chavez does control, as Shannon

[31:00] said, a large part of the economy and he

[31:02] basically controls the state and that

[31:05] allows him to have huge access to

[31:07] patronage that really is able to turn

[31:09] out the votes and also for many people

[31:12] threatened them that they would lose

[31:14] those benefits if he didn't win.

[31:16] >> Shannon O'Neal, we've seen though a

[31:17] precipitous drop in the price of oil,

[31:19] which has been the major source of

[31:21] revenue for this government. How has

[31:23] that affected uh Chavez's ability to

[31:26] deliver on his agenda and what do you

[31:28] expect will be the impact going forward?

[31:31] >> You know, it hasn't affected him yet and

[31:33] that's part of why his popularity

[31:35] continues. I mean, Chavez has really

[31:37] enjoyed a political honeymoon now of a

[31:39] decade of 10 full years. He just

[31:40] celebrated his anniversary and in part

[31:42] that's because of high oil prices. There

[31:44] was a lot of money to support a vast

[31:46] majority of all types of social

[31:48] programs, ones you mentioned, health

[31:49] care, schools, uh basic food subsidies,

[31:53] oil subsidies, all sorts of things, gas

[31:54] subsidies. But this is changing right

[31:56] now. He has some reserves, but those are

[31:58] going to run out during this year. And

[32:00] he's going to have to make some hard

[32:01] economic choices this year if oil prices

[32:04] stay low, which most people expect they

[32:05] will, at least for 2009, if not into

[32:07] 2010. And that's where we're going to

[32:09] see a change because in Venezuela,

[32:11] economics drives politics. Economics so

[32:15] far in Chavez's term have been quite

[32:16] good, especially for the last few years,

[32:18] and they've led to high political

[32:20] popularity for him as we've seen in this

[32:22] last referendum. But economics has now

[32:24] changed in Venezuela, and so the

[32:26] politics too will change in 2009 and

[32:28] especially into 2010. So, Mr. Sabatini,

[32:31] do you think that the drop in the price

[32:33] of oil will at all curb what Chavez has

[32:36] done in the region? In other words, he's

[32:38] sort of a self-style leader of other

[32:41] poor countries with populist uh uh

[32:44] leaders.

[32:45] >> It certainly will. First of all, his own

[32:48] country is going to start to feel the

[32:49] pinch. As Shannon said, oil has declined

[32:52] from a high of about $100 a barrel to

[32:54] now about $30 a barrel. So, and they

[32:56] were banking at about $60 a barrel. So,

[32:59] they're going to feel a real fiscal

[33:00] crunch. But second of all, as they do

[33:02] that, Chavez, what the biggest hit is

[33:05] going to be in Chavez's own large ass

[33:08] outside the country. He gives away about

[33:10] 94,000

[33:12] barrels of oil a day to Cuba. He gives

[33:15] over $120 million a year to Bolivia as

[33:18] well as Nicaragua and a whole series of

[33:21] of projects throughout the hemisphere.

[33:23] Those are going to be the first to be

[33:24] cut, especially when he confronts

[33:26] declining fiscal revenue, the need to

[33:28] cut subsidies, and also a very likely

[33:32] need to devalue his currency within the

[33:34] next couple months. And what people are

[33:35] going in Venezuela are going to start to

[33:37] complain about is basically his larger

[33:40] extra Venezuela uh ambitions in uh

[33:44] funding those things. And those will

[33:45] have to be cut.

[33:46] >> And Shannon O'Neal, what about the

[33:47] future of the relationship with visa v

[33:50] the United States with the new American

[33:52] president here? and and Chavez said this

[33:54] weekend, "Oh, he might be interested in

[33:55] having a conversation." What do you

[33:56] expect to see there?

[33:58] >> Well, as we all know, he had a very

[34:00] tense relationship with President Bush

[34:02] before. Uh, and so there was a personal

[34:04] animosity there between the two of them.

[34:06] And so, that of course is gone with a

[34:07] new President Obama. The other big

[34:09] difference is Obama has a much different

[34:11] personal profile and personal history.

[34:13] So, it'll be much more difficult to

[34:15] paint Obama as a Yankee imperialist the

[34:17] way he could with George Bush. But that

[34:19] said, Chavez always needs a foil. He

[34:23] always needs some sort of opposition. So

[34:25] that often is the domestic opposition

[34:26] within Venezuela, but as we've seen,

[34:28] it's often the United States. It's

[34:30] international opposition. So it will

[34:32] depend, but Chavez will always need some

[34:34] sort of opposition. And the United

[34:35] States makes an easy a foil for him.

[34:37] Christopher Sabotini, very short answer

[34:39] on that question. We're just about out

[34:41] of time.

[34:42] Basically, Obama is going to have much

[34:44] more legitimacy, will be much more

[34:46] difficult to turn into the sort of

[34:47] punching bag that Chavez has turned

[34:49] President Bush into over the last eight

[34:52] years. It's going to be a different

[34:53] game.

[34:54] >> All right, Christopher Sabatini, Shannon

[34:56] O'Neal, thank you both.

[34:57] >> Thank you.

[34:58] >> My pleasure.

[35:05] [music]

[35:06] >> Views from Iran and to Gwen Eiffel.

[35:10] For most Americans, what happens inside

[35:13] Iran remains a mystery. For Steve

[35:15] Enskeep of National Public Radio and the

[35:18] listeners of Morning Edition, some of

[35:19] that veil has been lifted. Steve

[35:22] recently spent two weeks reporting in

[35:23] and around Tehran and is here to tell us

[35:26] about his travels and his conversations.

[35:28] Steve, welcome.

[35:29] >> Glad to be here.

[35:30] >> So, when you decided to go to Iran, a

[35:32] place many people only have visions

[35:34] about or ideas about, including many

[35:36] reporters, what did you expect to see?

[35:38] Well, the first thing I wanted to to to

[35:40] understand was was how open Iran was

[35:43] going to be to a new relationship with

[35:45] the United States. But I didn't want to

[35:46] just approach that by asking various

[35:48] leaders. I wanted to understand what

[35:50] people on the street were thinking and

[35:51] saying about their daily lives. And I

[35:54] wanted to get the best sense that I

[35:55] could of what is described as a closed

[35:58] society. I found it, I think, in some

[35:59] ways a little more open, at least to me,

[36:01] at least at this moment, than I might

[36:04] have expected and got into a lot of

[36:05] fascinating conversations with people.

[36:07] Most Americans would expect when you say

[36:08] closed society, something repressive,

[36:10] something threatening.

[36:11] >> Oh, there is repression. There are

[36:13] threats. Newspapers are closed if they

[36:15] print the wrong things in Iran. Iranian

[36:18] journalists or Iranian-American

[36:20] journalists for that matter, I think are

[36:22] pressured in a lot of different ways

[36:23] expected to give information to

[36:25] intelligence services. Uh, Americans can

[36:28] be thrown out of the country. We've both

[36:30] had colleagues who've had that

[36:31] experience. At the same time, there are

[36:33] times when free and open debate is

[36:35] allowed and there are times when a

[36:37] journalist can go around the country and

[36:39] explore things and ask a lot of

[36:40] questions and we were lucky that on this

[36:42] occasion we were able to do that.

[36:43] >> As you were able to do that, do you have

[36:45] a sense that people were trying to

[36:46] restrict what people would say to you or

[36:48] people were editing themselves?

[36:49] >> Oh, people edit themselves and that was

[36:51] one of the challenges. If I just went up

[36:52] to people on the street or in a

[36:54] business, which I did as much as I

[36:55] could. Some people would say, you know,

[36:57] I'll talk about the economy. I'll talk

[36:59] about my life or my business. Don't ask

[37:00] me about politics. There were other

[37:02] people though that were eager to tell

[37:04] their stories. And there was a young

[37:05] couple, both of them, 24, planning to

[37:08] get married. They were shopping for a

[37:09] wedding ring when I saw them, a wedding

[37:12] ring they couldn't afford. And they were

[37:14] actually joking about it and saying, "I

[37:15] have to tell you, the economy is very

[37:18] good." Uh, but even as they were joking,

[37:20] they were perfectly willing to tell the

[37:21] basic facts of their lives that it was

[37:23] going to be hard for them to get married

[37:24] and afford an apartment. because while

[37:26] this is a very wealthy country in some

[37:28] ways with a lot of oil, the economy has

[37:30] a lot of problems.

[37:31] >> But yet, you talked to a 70-year-old

[37:32] woman who was far more forthcoming about

[37:34] this very same.

[37:35] >> Uh she was she was after a little while.

[37:37] She spoke to me twice. She came and

[37:38] said, "Everything's pretty much fine and

[37:40] my son and I get along. My son supports

[37:42] me as a taxi driver." And then she came

[37:44] back a second time and said, "Um, the

[37:47] economy is terrible." And anybody who

[37:49] tells you otherwise is a liar, even

[37:51] though she just told me that, which is I

[37:52] I think classic. Iranians tell me

[37:54] classic of the kind of situations that

[37:56] people get into. And she did take us to

[37:59] her apartment and it's just a simple

[38:02] story of struggle. The woman is not

[38:04] starving but she can't afford much meat.

[38:06] The woman is not homeless but she's, you

[38:08] know, she's an elderly woman and she has

[38:09] to climb five flights of stairs to the

[38:11] cheapest apartment and she wants a

[38:13] somewhat better life and is very

[38:15] frustrated in trying to get it.

[38:16] >> As you talk about this, you talk also

[38:18] and you wrote about the images of

[38:19] martyrdom around around the country. So,

[38:22] do they look at martyrdom as something

[38:25] that's driven by its Iran's role toward

[38:27] the US?

[38:28] >> Oh, well, let let's try to define they.

[38:30] The government, if that's the they, they

[38:32] use martyrdom uh as a way to inspire the

[38:35] people, as a way to keep the people

[38:36] behind them. And they did go through the

[38:39] country did go through a terrible war

[38:40] with Iraq, which is partly blamed on the

[38:43] United States because the United States

[38:44] supported Saddam Hussein in the 1980s.

[38:46] Hundreds of thousands of Iranians were

[38:48] killed and Iranians are constantly

[38:50] reminded of the people who were martyed

[38:52] of the children who went to the front

[38:54] and were killed in that war. People are

[38:56] constantly reminded of that and that is

[38:58] used as a way to say now you must obey

[39:00] us. You must obey the government that

[39:02] brought you through this. You must obey

[39:04] the war veterans. Mahmud Amad the

[39:06] president surviving war veterans. You

[39:08] must pay attention to them. Uh and those

[39:10] images are used as a matter of control.

[39:12] I think it's a more complicated story

[39:14] for the people themselves seeing those

[39:16] images on buildings and billboards and

[39:18] so forth.

[39:18] >> So if Akbanad is known as being very

[39:20] anti- US, very much at kind of at odds

[39:24] with the US, no matter who's in charge

[39:26] at the at the moment, um does that mean

[39:28] does that trickle down at all to the reg

[39:30] regular Iranians you talk to on the

[39:31] street?

[39:32] >> This is said by almost every American

[39:33] visitor to Iran. Uh Iranians are

[39:35] delighted to meet Americans, even

[39:37] Iranian officials who want to give us an

[39:40] earful of how they disagree with

[39:42] American policies and have disagreed

[39:44] with 50 and more years of American

[39:45] policies. Even Iranian officials will be

[39:48] very welcoming and delighted to chat

[39:50] with Americans. I think that there is a

[39:52] great interest in America. There's a

[39:54] great interest in American culture. It's

[39:56] not hard to find American music. It's

[39:58] not hard to find movies that are

[39:59] welcomed in the West. It's not hard hard

[40:01] to find Hollywood movies there.

[40:02] >> So who are the hardliners? ah the hard

[40:04] line. Well, who are who is anybody?

[40:06] There there is a great economist article

[40:09] uh that was published not long ago that

[40:10] referred in passing to whoever runs this

[40:12] country thinks um and it is hard to to

[40:15] figure that out sometimes but Ayatollah

[40:17] Ali Kam who is the supreme leader of

[40:20] Iran. He's more important than the

[40:22] president and more powerful than the

[40:23] president is considered a hardliner. He

[40:26] was around for Iran's revolution. He is

[40:28] the successor to Ayatollah Humeni whose

[40:31] face still appears everywhere that

[40:32] scowling face that anybody who was alive

[40:34] in the 80s remembers or in 1979 would

[40:36] remember and he is considered a

[40:38] hardliner. Medina is considered a

[40:40] hardliner. the current president. A lot

[40:42] of the other people around them are

[40:44] considered very conservative on issues

[40:47] that that we might be concerned about

[40:49] like the rights of women, but are

[40:50] considered pragmatic, people who might

[40:52] be willing to deal with the United

[40:54] States. And what people do who are

[40:57] political analysts or diplomats or

[40:59] politicians in Tran frequently is go

[41:01] around listening to sifting through

[41:04] public statements and gestures of these

[41:06] officials to try to figure out what in

[41:07] the world various officials do think and

[41:09] who really is in charge. How does Tran

[41:12] compare to other cities in the region

[41:13] that you've covered over the years?

[41:15] >> It's wealthier for a start. It's

[41:17] cleaner. It's more orderly than anything

[41:19] you'd find in Afghanistan next door, for

[41:21] example. It's safer than any place or

[41:23] most places, let's say, that you'd go in

[41:25] Iraq. Um, it seems more orderly in many

[41:28] ways than Pakistan, which is also a very

[41:30] large country, its neighboring country

[41:32] there. Um, it is uh restricted in many

[41:36] ways, not perhaps as restrictive as some

[41:38] Muslim countries, and we should be fair

[41:40] about that. There are strict Islamic

[41:41] rules, there are morals police on the

[41:43] street, but there's a certain degree of

[41:45] freedom to ignore them. But I have to

[41:46] emphasize that freedom is always kept

[41:48] within strict limits. If you say the

[41:50] wrong thing, if you offend the wrong

[41:52] person, you can be in deep, deep trouble

[41:54] in Iran. And part of the way the

[41:56] population is kept under control is

[41:58] you're never entirely sure where the

[42:00] lines are or who you might offend. Steve

[42:02] Insep of NPR. Thanks for taking us along

[42:04] on your travels.

[42:05] >> Oh, delighted to do it.

[42:14] >> Now, [music] excerpts from two reports

[42:16] produced by our PBS colleagues. First,

[42:19] the story of a family facing foreclosure

[42:22] in Riverside County, California. It was

[42:24] originally aired on KCT Los Angeles as

[42:27] part of its weekly series, SoCal

[42:29] Connected. The correspondent is Judy

[42:32] Mueller.

[42:36] >> It's another weekend in suburbia and Joe

[42:38] Bal is cutting his front lawn.

[42:42] His wife Aaron cleans the patio door and

[42:45] wipes down her favorite thing in the

[42:47] kitchen, the big center island.

[42:49] >> Did I get on there? Good. All right,

[42:51] bud. Good job.

[42:52] >> The family is also having a yard sale

[42:55] today.

[42:55] >> All the uh stuffed animals are 25 cents

[42:58] each.

[42:59] >> There you go. So you got a sleeping

[43:00] buddy, our first customer of the day.

[43:03] >> Woohoo.

[43:04] >> Hey, we have Scooby-Doo movies with the

[43:06] foot stone and Yogi Bear.

[43:07] >> None of this would be at all unusual

[43:09] except for one thing. The valleys don't

[43:12] even live here anymore. They're facing

[43:15] foreclosure.

[43:16] >> I can't even short sell it. I mean, just

[43:18] can't do it.

[43:20] >> Try it. You know,

[43:21] >> one thing about our kids

[43:23] >> is they don't wear them out. They just

[43:25] outgrow them before they can wear them

[43:27] out.

[43:28] Their financial problems started when

[43:30] Joe was laid off from his job at an RV

[43:33] dealership.

[43:34] >> Rock bottom prices today.

[43:36] >> Yeah, we can help you out. Got it,

[43:38] sweetie.

[43:38] >> Joe's new job as a truck driver pays

[43:40] about half of what he used to make. And

[43:43] even with Aaron working, the numbers

[43:45] just don't add up. You feel like you're

[43:49] in the deep end of a pool and you're

[43:51] underwater and you can't breathe or get

[43:54] up and just I was glad my kids were with

[43:57] my mom at that time cuz I lost it.

[44:02] Excuse me. And it's just it's hard.

[44:07] >> They felt lucky to find this mobile home

[44:09] to rent.

[44:11] >> $2700 a month or $1,100 a month when you

[44:14] take a $3,000 a month pay cut.

[44:17] I got to do what's best for the family.

[44:19] >> Reluctantly, the Bal's moved out of the

[44:22] house, stopped paying the mortgage, and

[44:24] listed it as a short sale, which is when

[44:27] an owner owes more than the property is

[44:29] worth,

[44:30] >> whatever we can salvage of our credit.

[44:33] If it means taking a short sale, working

[44:35] the numbers with the banks, and Lua just

[44:37] totally just packing up and walking away

[44:39] and letting the lawn turn dead and

[44:41] letting the house go to pot, we're

[44:44] trying to salvage something for them and

[44:47] for us.

[44:48] >> Joe and Aaron's house was once appraised

[44:50] at over $400,000.

[44:52] It's now listed for $180,000.

[44:56] >> Many Christmases.

[44:58] >> Many Christmases. Where was the tree?

[44:59] Right there.

[45:00] >> Right there in the corner. In the

[45:00] corner.

[45:00] >> Right there in the corner. right there.

[45:04] >> Honey, oh

[45:08] [screaming]

[45:10] >> Matthew asked me the question was the

[45:11] hardest thing. Well, when we lose our

[45:13] house, do we lose all the furniture?

[45:15] >> Do we lose our toys? And it was hard

[45:17] because they thought they were going to

[45:19] lose everything, toys and all

[45:22] >> on our pantry wall. On the Oh god.

[45:26] >> Door jam.

[45:27] >> Thank you. On the door jam.

[45:30] I need a minute.

[45:32] on the door jam in the pantry. We

[45:35] started marking the kids height and

[45:37] every couple months we progressively

[45:39] just marked and dated them. I mean, it

[45:42] goes back all the way to 01 and all the

[45:45] way up to 08 of um last year. There's

[45:48] one thing I could take out of that house

[45:49] would be that door jam. Our kids grew in

[45:52] this house, so it's tough.

[45:54] >> One thing you can't take.

[45:56] >> No, one thing you can't take.

[45:59] Okay.

[45:59] >> Sorry.

[46:03] That house just sold as a foreclosure.

[46:06] This house here sold as a foreclosure.

[46:08] The house across the street has been a

[46:10] two-time foreclosure. That house over

[46:12] there was a foreclosure. And there's

[46:14] three more just two houses up from us.

[46:16] It were foreclosure.

[46:17] >> What does that do to your possibilities?

[46:19] >> It makes it very difficult.

[46:21] >> The catch with short sales is that the

[46:23] bank can either accept or reject

[46:25] whatever offers come in. And with all

[46:28] the foreclosures around, including one

[46:30] right next door, the Bal's house has to

[46:32] be competitively priced. Competition

[46:35] with foreclosures is just one factor

[46:37] working against families like the Bal.

[46:40] Here's another. Banks and lenders are

[46:42] dragging their heels when it comes to

[46:44] approving short sales. And that means

[46:46] potential buyers are lost and the homes

[46:49] often end up in foreclosure.

[46:51] >> This was the affordable Orange County.

[46:53] >> Yeah. The valley's realtor, James

[46:55] Festini, says bank negotiators handling

[46:58] short sales are overwhelmed and

[47:00] backlogged.

[47:01] >> The length of time it takes to get the

[47:03] property approved by the bank or the

[47:05] first mortgage holder is generally 3 to

[47:07] 5 months and we'll lose the buyer and

[47:09] the property values continue to decline

[47:11] in that 3 to 5 months, which is a

[47:12] lifetime in this market.

[47:14] >> How many buyers have you lost

[47:16] >> on this particular house?

[47:17] >> No, any of the houses you've been

[47:19] >> Oh, countless. Countless of buyers. He

[47:21] says a well-priced foreclosure can sell

[47:24] immediately because the red tape has

[47:26] already been cut, but a short sale is

[47:28] often complicated by a property having a

[47:31] first and second mortgage. So, it's

[47:33] harder for the two lenders to agree.

[47:35] That's exactly why the Bal's lost their

[47:38] first and only potential buyer.

[47:40] >> You're wearing more than you're

[47:41] drinking, handsome.

[47:43] >> So, someday, who would you like to have

[47:46] living here? I thought it'd be a family,

[47:49] you know, with kids so they can enjoy it

[47:50] because we have the pool and this we

[47:52] let, you know, can't take the swing set

[47:54] with us. So that's still here and just

[47:56] someone can enjoy it just as much as we

[47:57] have.

[47:58] >> We could swing at the park at our new

[48:00] park.

[48:02] So maybe that will be funner or maybe

[48:05] they'll love it the same way as is.

[48:07] >> But you have to leave it behind.

[48:09] >> Yeah, I'll remember it forever.

[48:13] >> Keep it, James. Thanks a lot.

[48:15] >> Thank you.

[48:15] >> Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a

[48:17] good one.

[48:18] >> Okay, brother. Luck.

[48:19] >> The one person that touched me well was

[48:21] bought some stuff. How much?

[48:25] >> $2. Handed us a 20 and said, "Keep the

[48:29] change."

[48:29] >> Aaron, why are you going to cry?

[48:32] >> That was overwhelming.

[48:34] >> Sweetheart,

[48:35] >> he wasn't driving a Bentley. He wasn't

[48:38] in Beverly Hills.

[48:41] >> Okay.

[48:44] He's just probably an average Joe,

[48:47] middle class working guy that his heart

[48:50] opened up to us.

[48:53] >> We'll be fine.

[48:54] >> Okay.

[48:56] >> How about some water? [laughter]

[48:58] >> Your son will sell you water for a buck.

[49:00] >> I know. [snorts]

[49:02] >> Humor, humility, hope. The valleys are

[49:06] rich in those qualities. And as for home

[49:10] ownership, they have their own system of

[49:12] appraisal.

[49:13] >> 15, 16, 17.

[49:16] >> A home is where we're at, where my four

[49:19] of us are, my wife, my two boys, where

[49:22] my family can come over, Aeron's family

[49:24] can come over and celebrate Christmas,

[49:27] Thanksgiving, Easter, holidays,

[49:29] birthdays. That's a home. What we let go

[49:32] was a house. The home, I could take all

[49:36] those memories with us.

[49:40] >> [music]

[49:46] >> Finally tonight, [music] some memories

[49:47] from the oldest living man in the United

[49:50] States. Walter Bruning was born in 1896.

[49:53] In his lifetime, there have been 21

[49:56] presidents and economic good times and

[49:58] bad. He spent 50 years working for the

[50:01] railroads from 1913 to 1963. He now

[50:05] lives in a retirement community in Great

[50:07] Falls, Montana, where he recently talked

[50:10] to William Marcus of Montana Public

[50:12] Television about the many changes he's

[50:15] witnessed in his lifetime. Here's an

[50:17] excerpt from a conversation with Walter.

[50:21] >> So, you've made it to 112 years.

[50:26] What is if if somebody asked you

[50:31] what's what's your secret? That question

[50:33] comes up all the time. How do you know

[50:36] you're going to live that long? How does

[50:38] anybody know you're going to live the

[50:40] next day? You don't know.

[50:44] Nothing certain in this life.

[50:47] And that's why I like changes.

[50:52] Changes

[50:53] all for the best.

[50:55] >> So that every day in in the radio, in

[50:58] the news, you hear about change that

[51:00] happens in a in a country. Well, what is

[51:02] the most the most memorable news item

[51:06] that you ever heard on the radio or or

[51:08] read in the paper?

[51:09] >> When the banks closed

[51:12] in

[51:14] 29,

[51:17] President Roseville closed all the banks

[51:22] all over the United States. You probably

[51:24] don't remember.

[51:26] >> I don't. And so when Roosevelt got in

[51:28] there, that that was his first order to

[51:31] close the base.

[51:33] >> So everybody talks that our current

[51:34] economic problems are just like the

[51:37] Great Depression or that we're headed

[51:38] that way. Do you think that

[51:40] >> you haven't any idea what the depression

[51:42] was in the 30s

[51:45] when the stock market went broke, you

[51:47] know, in 29

[51:50] stock market went broke. That's when

[51:53] Rose come to office. There was over 14

[51:58] million out of work. People coming

[52:01] through on the box cars looking for

[52:04] work. No work. Wasn't any

[52:08] no work at all.

[52:10] You haven't any idea.

[52:13] The families had to move in with each

[52:15] other in order to be able to to live

[52:19] because probably only one person in the

[52:22] in the family was working. during the

[52:26] depression

[52:27] now

[52:29] railroad employees all all over the

[52:32] United States we had to take a 10% cut

[52:36] in wages

[52:40] and when and years afterwards you got it

[52:44] back

[52:46] >> you've lived through how many presidents

[52:49] >> since Wilson was first president

[52:52] >> I voted for

[52:54] And and who of of all those presidents,

[52:57] who's your favorite?

[52:58] >> Well, I think Roosevelt done the most

[53:01] when he created social security and made

[53:04] several changes.

[53:08] But, you know, the Second War, if he

[53:11] hadn't opened up at that time, Roosevelt

[53:15] would have had a tough time.

[53:18] It's just like this young

[53:20] new president's going to go in.

[53:23] He's going to have a heck of a time if

[53:25] I'll tell you that.

[53:27] He thinks he's going to satisfy all the

[53:30] people in the country. He's better think

[53:33] again cuz it's not that easy.

[53:36] >> How would you counsel future generations

[53:38] to be a part of of their country?

[53:41] Everybody learns from life what's going

[53:45] on

[53:47] and if they pay attention

[53:50] to everything

[53:52] that people do, especially

[53:56] helping people.

[53:58] That's one big thing. A lot of people

[54:01] think they're born

[54:03] for themselves.

[54:06] I don't think that.

[54:08] I believe that we're here to help other

[54:11] people all the way through.

[54:17] [music]

[54:22] Again, [music] the major developments of

[54:24] the day Japan reported its worst

[54:26] economic conditions in 35 years and

[54:28] world markets tumbled on the news. And

[54:31] Illinois Democratic Senator Roland

[54:33] Burrus denied that he covered up

[54:35] contacts with ousted Governor Rod

[54:37] Bgogyovich. We'll see you online and

[54:40] again here tomorrow evening. I'm Judy

[54:42] Woodruff. Thank you and good night.

[54:44] >> Checked him over and found marijuana in

[54:46] that guy's shoes. Not a good trip to

[54:48] police station.

[54:49] >> Huh? Rod had a better day.

[54:50] >> Congratulations, sir. We'll see you

[54:52] tomorrow, folks. Thanks for watching.

[54:57] Fisher Communications, [music]

[54:59] >> Evergreen Public Schools, the third

[55:02] largest school district in the metro

[55:04] area. Promoting excellence,

[55:07] nurturing personal growth, the leaders

[55:10] of tomorrow.

[55:11] >> At ABM Janitorial Services, excellence

[55:14] [music] begins with customer service.

[55:16] >> We at ABM are honored to serve

[55:18] tomorrow's leaders throughout Evergreen

[55:20] Public Schools. Evergreen Public

[55:22] Schools, where all students have the

[55:23] opportunity to attain the skills

[55:25] necessary to be world [music]

[55:26] competitive.

[55:35] Bigger yet faster,

[55:39] [music]

[55:40] more powerful yet more fuel efficient.

[55:44] The laws of physics, merely loose

[55:47] suggestions.

[55:49] The Audi A4. Truth in engineering.

[55:52] [music]

[55:53] Experience the category changing A4 at

[55:56] your Audi dealer today. [music]

[55:59] >> Power companies generate power.

[56:02] >> It's been that way since the industrial

[56:03] revolution.

[56:04] >> But at Pacific Power, we're generating

[56:06] something more. Answers.

[56:08] >> Answers that will help keep the skies

[56:10] blue and the trees green.

[56:12] >> Answers that work rain or shine day or

[56:15] night. Answers that save energy

[56:17] >> where you live and where you work.

[56:20] We believe that together we can make

[56:23] things even better. Pacific Power. Let's

[56:26] turn the answers on.

[56:49] Thank you.

[56:50] >> Great milk comes from happy cows. Happy

[56:52] cows come from California. Look for

[56:54] dairy brands with the real California

[56:56] seals.

[56:58] >> She's got soul.

[57:01] >> From your desktop

[57:03] to your laptop.

[57:06] From your home

[57:08] to where you want to be. It's time to

[57:11] get unlimited.

[57:13] Get Cricut broadband and get fast mobile

[57:16] internet access at a price that fits

[57:17] your budget.

[57:19] Call 18007188715

[57:22] now or hurry into a Cricut store today

[57:24] to get in on this great deal.

[57:26] For just [music] 40 bucks a month, you

[57:28] get unlimited wireless broadband 24/7.

[57:31] And thanks to our all digital 3G

[57:33] network, it's super fast. Call

[57:36] 18007188715

[57:38] now. There's no contracts [music] to

[57:40] sign. Just plug in and start surfing the

[57:42] net. It's that easy. It's that fast. Act

[57:45] now and get a USB modem for just 59

[57:48] bucks. Call 18007188715.

[57:51] Call, click, or come into a Cricut store

[57:53] today. Cricut Broadband. Real [music]

[57:56] unlimited. Unreal savings.

[57:59] >> Diabetes Expo. Saturday at the

[58:01] convention center. Free admission.