MSNBC - Election Night 2006 - 11 p.m. (E)

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] People

[0:04] here in Connecticut today and I believe

[0:06] across the country are sending a message

[0:08] to leaders of both major political

[0:10] parties. [screaming]

[0:13] Yes, they want change,

[0:17] but they don't want change in just who

[0:19] runs Congress. They want change [music]

[0:22] in how we run the country.

[0:28] >> [music]

[0:33] >> Good evening. I'm Chris Matthews. In

[0:35] fact, it's not evening. We're still

[0:36] waiting on two races to decide who will

[0:38] control the Senate at this hour. NBC

[0:40] News reports that the races in Montana

[0:43] between Conrad Burns and John Tester and

[0:45] in Virginia between George and the

[0:47] incumbent and and Jim Webb the

[0:48] challenger are still too close to call.

[0:50] Let's look at some of the other big

[0:51] winners of the night. right now. That's

[0:54] John Tester and and Conrad Burns, as I

[0:56] said, are too close to call. Although

[0:57] you can see the numbers there and we may

[1:00] have a result there in a couple of hours

[1:01] right now. That's Montana.

[1:07] And here we have in Virginia the same, a

[1:10] very close race. Although Jim Webb did

[1:12] declare victory there a couple of hours

[1:14] ago, we're not moving ahead with any

[1:17] projection yet on that race final

[1:19] projection. But there are signs here

[1:21] without getting uh too official about it

[1:23] that John tester is in good shape up

[1:26] there in Montana as is Jim Webb down in

[1:28] Virginia. And the Democrats because of

[1:30] those uh situations are in very good

[1:32] shape right now. In fact, I would say a

[1:34] plurality of betting odds right now that

[1:36] they're going to win this thing, win the

[1:37] Senate right now. Too close to cause I

[1:40] said in uh in Montana, but this is a

[1:43] good news for the Democrats. They went

[1:45] through a shaky weekend. Craig Crawford

[1:47] joining us now from Congressional Court.

[1:49] They went through a shaky weekend with a

[1:51] lot of ups and downs and jiggling in

[1:53] those polls and and certainly a comeback

[1:55] of some kind for Conrad Burns that

[1:58] looked like a comeback and it may have

[2:00] dissolved during the voting day itself.

[2:02] >> Yeah.

[2:03] >> And in Virginia there was talk of a of a

[2:07] George Allen comeback as well which may

[2:09] well have dissolved in the late vote in

[2:11] the late count coming out of Fairfax

[2:13] County. Amazing, huh? For the Democrats.

[2:15] I mean almost every race that was close

[2:17] they managed to win it looks like.

[2:18] Amazing for the Democrats. And I tell

[2:20] you, Chris, I've been thinking a lot

[2:21] about George Bush tonight because I I

[2:24] I've written a weekly column on He's

[2:26] been asleep since 9:30. You're thinking

[2:28] for two years. Two years I've written a

[2:30] weekly column on this White House. And I

[2:32] and and tracked you the politics of this

[2:35] White House over that time. And while

[2:38] this was about Iraq, this I think will

[2:41] go down in history as one of the most

[2:43] politically incompetent second terms in

[2:45] presidential history. I mean, just

[2:47] forget about Iraq. Look at how he

[2:49] started this term. Uh, talking about

[2:51] social security overhaul. Even his own

[2:53] party didn't want that. Uh, then they

[2:55] intervened in the Terry Shabo

[2:58] Shabo case, the Komaos Florida woman.

[3:00] Um, then you have immigration uh, which

[3:04] was not something his party wanted. Uh,

[3:06] and then he ended with vetoing uh, stem

[3:09] cell the effort to ban uh, withdraw his

[3:12] restrictions on on stem cell research.

[3:15] All these things u undermined his own

[3:17] party. Uh this president wanted John K's

[3:20] apology. I think he owes an apology to

[3:23] his own party. And I and we've talked a

[3:24] lot about the pre president needing to

[3:26] deal with the Democrats. Before he does

[3:29] that, he's got to deal with his own

[3:30] party. There's going to be a lot of

[3:32] anger at

[3:32] >> You think the knives are out in your

[3:34] party, Ben?

[3:35] >> Uh I think there's going to be a period

[3:36] of introspection coming up here. Um, I'm

[3:39] not sure that the knives are out quite

[3:41] so much for the president because he

[3:43] has, after all, done a lot to get to the

[3:45] the party to where it is. And he's been

[3:48] elected twice. He brought home the

[3:49] congressional wing in 2002 in an

[3:52] election that nobody thought they were

[3:54] going to be able to do.

[3:55] >> I don't see how he gets a pass. How does

[3:56] he get a pass? I mean, he's the

[3:58] president.

[3:59] >> I mean, they're going to focus on Carl,

[4:00] >> but it's not. But the dynamics are

[4:02] changing because if you don't have the

[4:03] majority in Congress, then a lot of the

[4:05] natural conflicts that have occurred

[4:06] between the president and the

[4:07] legislative branch aren't going to. The

[4:10] president also is not on the ballot

[4:12] again. I think to the extent that

[4:13] there's a conflict in the party, it'll

[4:15] be in some leadership elections that

[4:18] have sort of taken flight uh in about

[4:20] the last 3 hours. That's right. And when

[4:23] the House decides to postpone its

[4:25] leadership elections, the Republicans in

[4:27] the House till December instead of

[4:28] holding them in November, there's going

[4:30] to be some some intraarty battling and

[4:33] there will be for some of the other

[4:34] offices in the Senate below Mitch

[4:36] McConnell.

[4:37] >> But why blame Reynolds or or or Denny

[4:40] Hastard or Boehner or any of the leaders

[4:42] for what happened in this election? It

[4:43] looks like this was all foreign policy

[4:45] caused.

[4:46] >> Well, I'm not sure that it was all

[4:47] foreign policy caused. I mean, I think

[4:49] you can't underestimate the way the

[4:51] members in the House feel about the

[4:53] Foley scandal and the way the the

[4:55] leadership handled it. And I think that

[4:58] in in part is going to fuel what uh what

[5:00] goes on in the House. The Senate is a

[5:02] matter of there are now vacancies

[5:04] because of Senator Santorum's loss.

[5:06] >> Well, the there in the leadership rank

[5:08] >> in the leadership rank.

[5:09] >> Who's going to fill that, do you? Excuse

[5:10] me. Who's going to fill that? because

[5:11] you've got Trent lot showing an interest

[5:14] in perhaps getting back into the number

[5:16] two slot behind Mitch McConnell, but

[5:18] then I hear that Lamar Alexander

[5:21] Alexander and John Kyle who just won a a

[5:24] pretty convincing victory in a tough

[5:26] environment uh is also in line.

[5:29] >> Really?

[5:30] >> Yeah. Really?

[5:32] >> Yes.

[5:33] I think the um the problem that there

[5:37] the voters clearly talked about

[5:39] corruption in the exit polling and so

[5:41] how the Congress is run is going to be

[5:43] an issue. It's something that Nancy

[5:45] Pelosi I think is paying a lot of

[5:46] attention to. They've talked about um

[5:49] dealing with corruption and lobbying

[5:51] reform as one of their top three things

[5:53] that the Democrats are going to do when

[5:55] they when they reconvene the House. I do

[5:57] think that whenever you have a loss like

[5:59] this that the Republican campaign

[6:01] committee leadership that you know the

[6:03] the uh the Senate leadership they're all

[6:06] going to be um uh knives out but that

[6:09] changes anyway that's changing the issue

[6:11] though in Republican blame is going to

[6:13] be this sort of stay the course and

[6:16] divide the um country and appeal to the

[6:19] base politics of Carl Rove whether that

[6:23] strategy is going

[6:24] >> this is what bugs me is I agree Carl Ro

[6:26] this isn't Carl, it's George Bush. I

[6:29] mean, George Bush is the president. Why

[6:31] do we always try to focus on Carl Ro? I

[6:34] mean, I agree. But regardless,

[6:37] let me finish. Why does George Bush

[6:38] escape blame? Well, why why does

[6:40] everybody explain that?

[6:41] >> He has responsibility. No question.

[6:43] >> I mean, we say this election was about

[6:45] Iraq.

[6:46] >> That was his decision.

[6:47] >> The issue is whether this election

[6:51] election was a referendum on George Bush

[6:53] because he's not on the ballot again.

[6:55] No, he was on this neither. He was on

[6:57] this ballot, but he's not on 2008.

[7:00] >> If he wasn't on the ballot, why was he

[7:01] on it for this week?

[7:03] >> Wait a second. So, let's reset the

[7:05] table. We started this. I want you to

[7:08] reset the table first. You're writing a

[7:10] paragraph about what just happened in

[7:12] American politics the last 24 hours.

[7:15] Starting the yesterday morning, a sixth

[7:17] year of a presidency. The Democrats win

[7:21] big big take over the House probable now

[7:24] take over the Senate. Write the

[7:26] paragraph on why that happened.

[7:29] >> You have a president who was as firm as

[7:32] he could be on his strategy and his

[7:34] course and did not listen to people in

[7:37] his party.

[7:38] >> You have to be a little more colorizing

[7:39] here. I would say he stuck to his guns

[7:41] on the war. He stuck to his guns on the

[7:43] war. didn't listen and his party in the

[7:46] Congress went along with him lock step

[7:49] and barrel even when their leadership

[7:51] expressed doubt they all paying the

[7:54] price together he was he he was stubborn

[7:57] and delusional I I mean I just

[7:59] >> and his guys went along

[8:01] I just watched the the Oliver Stone

[8:03] Stone movie on Nixon and and I I saw

[8:05] many parallels

[8:07] >> may I write a paragraph about my party

[8:09] here on Nixon they didn't go south on

[8:12] >> write me a highly documented account of

[8:14] what happened in the last 24 hours.

[8:17] >> The Republican leadership has managed to

[8:19] anger the three prongs of the Republican

[8:21] base. The national security

[8:23] conservatives are angered about the war

[8:26] and the way it's being prosecuted. The

[8:28] fiscal conservatives are outraged about

[8:30] spending in the Congress and the

[8:32] administration's failure to veto any of

[8:34] the spending bills. And the social

[8:36] conservatives are absolutely a gasast at

[8:39] the Foley scandal and the way it was

[8:41] handled. Therefore, all three prongs of

[8:43] what makes up the traditional Republican

[8:45] base have something to worry about. Now,

[8:47] that's not a rejection of conservative

[8:50] principles. That is the fact that

[8:52] Republicans strayed from those

[8:54] principles, but it's those the country

[8:56] as a whole is conservative. This is not

[8:58] an election that shows that the country

[9:00] has all of a sudden become liberal. What

[9:02] it showed is the Republicans looked sort

[9:05] of contradictory to their own principles

[9:07] of independence.

[9:08] >> When was the big chill? When did you

[9:09] discover that? When you know the big

[9:11] children, you know the movie. When is it

[9:12] when you realize that those are my

[9:14] people? That's right. That your party

[9:16] went from being the revolutionary party

[9:18] of the contract with American nuke and

[9:19] rich in 94 to becoming the party that

[9:21] cared more about power, earmarks,

[9:23] spending, newsletters that said, "Look

[9:26] what I brought back to the district."

[9:27] That sort of thing. That kind of old

[9:30] established politician. When did your

[9:31] party get old? I I think I think it got

[9:34] crystallized with Katrina in which the

[9:36] party that is that is historically good

[9:40] at or prides itself on being able to

[9:41] manage things didn't manage things well

[9:44] at all. I think it it got exacerbated by

[9:47] the Abramoff scandals which got into the

[9:49] whole pork barrel earmark

[9:52] uh problems that arose. I think it got

[9:55] continued with some of the legislative

[9:57] moves. Immigration was a divide amongst

[10:00] the party. Uh and and lastly, the Foley

[10:03] scandal, which if anything, we should be

[10:04] protecting the children and we failed.

[10:06] >> But again, why why do you use the

[10:07] passive voice on that? These were these

[10:09] were all George Bush's decisions

[10:12] responsibility.

[10:13] >> Abramoff was not a Bush problem.

[10:15] >> I mean, immigration,

[10:17] >> im immigration, immigration and Katrina,

[10:20] Social Security get laid get laid at the

[10:22] doorstep. But

[10:23] >> we wouldn't even be talking about stim

[10:24] cell research if he hadn't made that the

[10:26] focus of his first televised address

[10:28] before before 911.

[10:31] Chris asked a question about when we

[10:32] became the party of earmarks and the

[10:34] answer to that is that got crystallized

[10:36] over the Jack Abramoff scandal. That is

[10:38] not an administration problem.

[10:41] >> Jack Abramoff is was I mean he he was

[10:44] working he was working for this White

[10:46] House.

[10:46] >> The problem the problem was a

[10:48] congressional problem.

[10:49] >> Sorry. the Republicans controlling the

[10:51] White House and both houses of Congress

[10:53] created a um an a level of corruption

[10:57] and intensity of of and power that had

[11:01] Democrats had never gone. They the the

[11:03] redace test of of what was okay to do

[11:06] and not okay to do in Washington just

[11:08] went out the window. But I maintain that

[11:10] for all of George Bush's mistakes, and

[11:12] there were a lot of mistakes, the

[11:14] biggest mistake the Republicans made in

[11:16] Congress is when they knew that they

[11:18] were that he was wrong and when they

[11:19] disagreed with him, that they went along

[11:21] with him anyway. That's why

[11:23] >> All I'm trying to say here is that I

[11:25] think the Republican part is in good

[11:26] shape if they are the Republican party

[11:29] and not the party of Bush. And when they

[11:32] figure that out

[11:33] >> and and make him irrelevant, the

[11:35] Republican party can survive.

[11:37] History makes him less and less relevant

[11:40] on the stage. This is much more about

[11:42] who can fix things.

[11:43] >> He not only is becomes a lame duck out

[11:45] of this. He's an invisible duck.

[11:47] >> Well, none of us will forget.

[11:48] >> Well, I disagree with that, too.

[11:49] >> You can't forget next.

[11:50] >> We're going to be we're going to be back

[11:51] on that point. [laughter]

[11:53] >> You're getting grouchy here, my friend.

[11:55] We'll be right back with what to what

[11:56] extent that George Bush deserves to

[11:58] Well, he let's face it, he's going to

[12:00] have to take the hit for this tomorrow.

[12:01] He's going to have to hold a press

[12:02] conference tomorrow at 1:00 in the

[12:03] afternoon. He's going to have to explain

[12:04] what he's going to do given what looks

[12:06] to be the total collapse of this

[12:07] congressional party. We'll be right back

[12:09] to talk about it more as we reach toward

[12:12] the magic moment when uh Don Imus shows

[12:14] up which is almost like Santa Claus

[12:16] coming here. Of course, he's packing.

[12:19] That's the difference. We'll be right

[12:20] back.

[12:25] [music]

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[14:38] >> I won't come to your baby shower.

[14:41] won't ever ask if it's a boy or a girl.

[14:45] In truth, we'll never meet, but I'll be

[14:49] there along with others like me [music]

[14:51] in the delivery room.

[14:54] And someday, you'll return the [music]

[14:56] favor from me.

[15:00] We are all connected and thousands

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[15:05] can take charge.

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[15:40] Senator Allen said not long ago when he

[15:43] came on the news and said, "We all need

[15:44] to respect [music]

[15:46] uh the process in this country, the

[15:48] democratic process. Uh we all go out, we

[15:52] vote, we argue, we vote,

[15:55] but also would like to say that uh the

[15:58] votes are in and we won."

[16:01] [cheering]

[16:02] >> Well, there's Jim Webb, the Democratic

[16:04] challenger, claiming victory. We haven't

[16:05] given it to him yet at NBC. NBC has not

[16:08] projected him as the winner. That said,

[16:10] looking at all the evidence, he does

[16:12] have an edge now in the count and

[16:14] they're going to have to decide if

[16:15] that's enough of an edge to prevent a

[16:16] recount and to lead to an acceptance and

[16:20] a concession speech by George. We're

[16:22] looking at these numbers by the way,

[16:24] 1170564

[16:25] to 1162 about 7,000 some votes. Uh let's

[16:30] take a look now. Kathern Harris has of

[16:32] course been an iconic figure in American

[16:34] life since the year 2000 recount where

[16:36] she was so much identified with the

[16:38] Chads etc etc and of course iconized on

[16:42] whatever that word is on Saturday Night

[16:43] Live for so many times. Here she is

[16:46] conceding defeat in that Senate race.

[16:51] >> About an hour ago I spoke with Senator

[16:53] Nelson and I congratulated him and I

[16:56] wished him well and he was very gracious

[16:58] in return. I still believe and I want

[17:01] everyone here to still believe that

[17:04] public service is a noble calling.

[17:07] And it has been an extraordinary honor

[17:09] for me to serve as a member of Congress

[17:12] to represent you statewide as Secretary

[17:14] of State and to serve in our state

[17:17] senate as a Republican and carry the

[17:20] conservative banner in this United

[17:22] States Senate race. [cheering]

[17:25] [applause]

[17:31] We fought a good fight. We knew it was

[17:33] going to be tough going in uh against an

[17:36] incumbent, but under the most trying of

[17:38] circumstances in what has obviously been

[17:41] a very difficult year for me. But I

[17:43] would tell you on a personal note, there

[17:45] have been so many things that have been

[17:47] so hard and so many of you have walked

[17:49] through that with me and no one more

[17:51] than my husband Anders. But for all of

[17:53] those obstacles and all the things that

[17:55] were so tough, uh, with the exception of

[17:58] losing my dad, there is not one single

[18:00] thing that I would re reverse the tide

[18:02] on because it has grown my character. It

[18:05] has grown my faith and I've had the

[18:07] chance to meet some of the most

[18:09] remarkable people and solidify

[18:11] friendships that I've had over the years

[18:12] more so than any other time in my life.

[18:14] And I would not turn back the hands of

[18:16] time for anything. So for that, I thank

[18:18] you. [applause]

[18:21] Well, that has been a a pathetic

[18:23] campaign. I mean, [laughter] u the

[18:25] president wouldn't even let her stand up

[18:27] on the stage with him the other night.

[18:28] He came into the state and she showed up

[18:30] and he made her sit out in the gallery

[18:32] with everyone else. He didn't want Look

[18:34] at that. He didn't want want to be seen

[18:36] next to her. She did get 38% I think in

[18:39] a bet I made with the post. I think I

[18:40] said it was about 39. I'm a little off

[18:42] there, but not much. Uh, why do you

[18:45] think Kathern Harris went through this

[18:46] year of taking a nomination that nobody

[18:48] wanted to give her?

[18:50] >> I think she decided that that she was

[18:53] the story and you heard in her concess

[18:55] concession speech, me me. This was all

[18:58] about her ego and I think that she

[19:01] couldn't let go of that.

[19:02] >> And consider been a congresswoman for

[19:04] life for that very that that her

[19:08] decision to run and the party's

[19:09] inability to get get her not to run may

[19:12] have cost him the Senate.

[19:14] Do you think they could have put a four

[19:15] forceful candidate against Bill Nelson

[19:18] was beatable? Bill Nelson was Nelson was

[19:21] beatable. He is right about that.

[19:22] >> Why are you I see that bang there. Did

[19:25] you think that she couldn't have held

[19:27] her house seat forever?

[19:28] >> No. Absolutely she could have.

[19:30] >> She absolutely could have.

[19:31] >> So she just threw it away.

[19:33] >> Well, she went on for higher office.

[19:35] There are a number of members of

[19:37] Congress who made the same decision.

[19:39] >> Look, she Hey, she made a president. You

[19:41] know that that makes you feel pretty.

[19:43] There was a lot of that makes you feel

[19:44] pretty important when you could create a

[19:46] president all of a sudden you think well

[19:48] I should be in the Senate. There were

[19:49] plenty of there was a lot of talent in

[19:52] Florida in the Republican party who

[19:53] could have taken on Bill Nelson and made

[19:55] that a race and I think beaten him and

[19:57] maybe maybe not in this particular year

[19:59] but I do think Nelson was beatable. He

[20:01] he he did not have a real record with

[20:03] the public. I mean it was he was kind of

[20:05] a non- entity in in in the public uh in

[20:08] Florida. And I I do think he was

[20:10] beatable and and this this could have

[20:13] been they could have saved the Senate if

[20:15] they had found a better candidate in

[20:16] this race, someone who could have beaten

[20:18] Nelson.

[20:18] >> I think you're being argumentative

[20:20] >> because Nelson is a moderate Democrat,

[20:22] an astronaut of sorts, uh a likable

[20:25] fellow, kind of an oldstyle Floridaian,

[20:28] not an

[20:31] Southern accent, the whole thing.

[20:32] >> He never won a tough race when he ran

[20:34] for governor. uh he always only won no

[20:38] no you know no-brainers.

[20:39] >> Yeah. But he was he was a popular guy

[20:40] and Chris is right. There's just there

[20:42] there wasn't going to be enough reason

[20:44] to um beat him and the um uh the

[20:48] Republican party you know Jeb Bush

[20:49] hasn't pulled the Republican party

[20:51] together. Who knows Charlie Chris and

[20:53] Bill Nelson. They're a nice

[20:54] >> you know I I do think she underused and

[20:57] didn't know how to exploit her her

[20:59] celebrity. If you want to call it

[21:00] notoriety, fine. But once you've got

[21:02] that n kind of name ID, once you're up

[21:04] there in the stars in terms of being

[21:06] somebody, look, there's 435 members of

[21:08] the house. There may not be 20 we've

[21:09] ever heard of the public. She was one of

[21:11] them that everybody knew. She could have

[21:13] turned that into something. And she she

[21:15] never seemed to be able to. Maybe people

[21:16] weren't fair to her, but I would have

[21:18] thought that she would have accounted to

[21:20] more than a 39% attempt at beating a guy

[21:22] who's a middleweight.

[21:23] >> Mhm.

[21:24] >> She felt a certain entitlement to many

[21:27] things. And I think that that sort of

[21:29] came up short when you actually had to

[21:31] go out and campaign for votes and put

[21:34] forward a coherent

[21:35] >> You do speak for the party establishment

[21:37] on this, don't you?

[21:37] >> I'm speaking purely for myself.

[21:39] >> No, I think you speak for the party

[21:40] establishment which which shunned her

[21:43] >> in I believe I believe the party

[21:46] establishment gave her some gentle hints

[21:48] and some advice that turned out to be

[21:50] pretty accurate. Well, they but they

[21:52] didn't put anybody else out there that I

[21:54] think they didn't have a shirt. They

[21:55] didn't put any resources on Jeb Bush's

[21:58] head. Jeb Bush Exactly. Right. This was

[22:00] Jeb Bush.

[22:00] >> I'm impressed by Florida. I think

[22:02] Florida Florida is going to become

[22:04] increasingly influential in American

[22:05] political life. It's a big big state.

[22:07] It's growing. It's a young person state.

[22:09] It's not just a retirement state by any

[22:11] means. It is going to be important

[22:12] economically and it's going to be one of

[22:14] the real important states of this union.

[22:16] And it's not way out in California

[22:17] either. It's very close to the East

[22:19] Coast. It's in a position to influence

[22:21] uh policy much more than California.

[22:23] We'll be right back.

[22:23] >> As a Floridaian, I vote for that.

[22:25] >> I really do believe I've been down there

[22:26] enough to feel it down there. Florida is

[22:28] a powerful state and Jeb Bush may not be

[22:30] out of politics at this moment. We'll be

[22:32] back more with our panel and more of

[22:34] these concession speeches. My personal

[22:36] uh preference is that we watch a lot

[22:38] more of those right now. We'll be right

[22:39] back.

[22:42] [bell]

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[22:54] >> Yeah. I'm going to go check outside.

[22:56] >> This hotel sure is peaceful.

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[25:23] When the battle for Congress ends, the

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[25:32] really means from the best political

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[25:37] aftermath. Special coverage all day

[25:39] today, only on MSNBC, the place for

[25:42] politics.

[25:46] You know, in this race, we fought hard.

[25:50] We did everything we could do,

[25:54] but it just was not to be.

[25:57] This was not the year.

[26:00] We could not win.

[26:03] We did everything we could. This was not

[26:05] the year we could not win. You know what

[26:07] you have to feel? I know Dewine. I I

[26:09] just met with a bunch of his people one

[26:10] time. It was a favorite to him. He

[26:11] called me and said, "Come eat with my

[26:12] people." And I I do it for all these

[26:14] guys. They have their people from home.

[26:16] They come to them. They believe in them.

[26:18] U they do it. They don't do things

[26:20] wrong. They just don't. I don't care

[26:21] what anybody says. Some of these guys

[26:23] just they're going out with the wave.

[26:25] Just like Jim Talent, Mike DeWine. These

[26:28] guys I saw this all happen in the 70s

[26:30] with liberal Democratic senators. Frank

[26:32] Moss, Gail McGee, Lee Medaf,

[26:36] >> Magnus, Frank Church, John Tunny,

[26:40] Mononttoya, everybody I knew out in

[26:42] those days all got beaten. They went out

[26:44] with that liberal wave. I'm sorry,

[26:46] conservative wave. The sage brush

[26:47] rebellion gone. Everybody goes and we're

[26:50] seeing it happening in the east and the

[26:52] midwest to uh the Republicans.

[26:53] >> Shared Brown just worked his butt off

[26:56] this campaign though. He started two

[26:57] years ago and did not stop. But the

[27:00] other important thing in Ohio, of

[27:01] course, is that they've elected a

[27:03] Democratic governor, which sets up in

[27:04] 2008 uh a lot of other possibilities in

[27:08] in in terms of controlling the the

[27:10] >> Democrats did a good job of recruitment

[27:12] and and that's that's a big story out of

[27:14] this. They

[27:15] >> Well, go through them. Go through the

[27:16] recruitments the recruits for the

[27:17] Senate.

[27:17] >> I mean, I think it you know, shared

[27:19] Brown was a bit of a risk and a little

[27:21] out of the norm because of what they did

[27:24] found a lot of centrist candidates

[27:25] around there. I mean, you heard Mc

[27:27] McCascal talking about that she's for

[27:28] the death penalty. You got Web um and I

[27:32] think they tried to find a some

[27:34] candidates who didn't have traditional

[27:36] political background in some cases. They

[27:38] really worked at trying to fit

[27:40] >> who did they was it Chuck Schumer who I

[27:42] think Rahm Emanuel on the House side and

[27:43] Schumer on the side.

[27:44] >> Let's go to the big name. I am so

[27:46] impressed with this because I've seen

[27:48] they've never been so good at picking

[27:49] presidential candidates as they were

[27:50] pitching senators. You got a guy like

[27:53] Jim Webb, if he wins, perfect. a

[27:55] military guy, secretary of the Navy,

[27:57] military background, novelist, pretty

[27:59] smart guy, never big friend of the

[28:00] Clintons, never big friend of Chuck Rob,

[28:02] even a very independent guy, maybe a

[28:04] John Glenn, even Democrat. You've got

[28:06] this guy Tester with the crew cut out

[28:08] there. Looks like he's driving a

[28:09] tractor. Looks like a regular guy. He

[28:11] doesn't look like some intellectual from

[28:12] the University of South Dakota, like

[28:14] McGovern or somebody. Looks like a

[28:15] regular guy working working out there

[28:17] like the other people. You've got uh

[28:20] what's the other Oh, you've got I'm

[28:21] saying the other big one you picked.

[28:22] >> Well, pick another one where Chuck is a

[28:25] strong candidate. Macascal was a strong

[28:26] candidate. And in fact, they said that

[28:28] that she was the one woman they really

[28:30] needed to win in that state. Uh in

[28:32] Virginia, the three they got Rhode

[28:34] Island, you got this guy Sheldon White

[28:36] House. He says every bit as waspy as the

[28:38] other guy and looks like he's he's a

[28:40] classic Yankee senator. Classic case

[28:44] Bobby Casey Jr., a pro-life.

[28:49] Schumer is one of the most

[28:51] socially liberal Democrats in the

[28:54] Senate, but he put that aside in

[28:55] recruiting these candidates. The

[28:57] Pennsylvania to sell their soul a little

[28:59] bit to get candidates in who would win,

[29:01] which will make the governance part of

[29:02] this kind of interest. You got to hand

[29:04] that to Chuck Schumer. Also,

[29:05] Pennsylvania is the best example of how

[29:08] hard Chuck Schumer has.

[29:09] >> I want to know how they rough up Bobby

[29:11] Casey Jr., the next Supreme Court fight

[29:13] they've got. Let's go right now to my

[29:14] friend David Schuster who's down by

[29:16] phone. I guess we've lost the camera.

[29:18] We're operating on limited [laughter]

[29:20] budget now. David, thank you for joining

[29:22] us. You're still down there in Richmond.

[29:23] What do you hear is happening in that

[29:25] Senate race?

[29:26] >> Well, Chris, a couple of things. Yeah,

[29:27] we lost the camera at 4:30 in the

[29:29] morning, but um no, and come daylight,

[29:31] both Jim Webb and George Allen are going

[29:33] to get a better at least picture of

[29:35] where the votes may be that they could

[29:37] be missing. Uh as it stands, the spread

[29:40] now is obviously around 10 or 11,000

[29:42] votes. Jim over with the lead. This is

[29:44] largely the result of absentee ballots

[29:46] that they continue to to count through

[29:48] the night. What's going to happen come

[29:49] daylight is both campaigns have lawyers

[29:52] that are going to go across the state

[29:53] and be part of what's known as a

[29:54] canvasing. And that's simply where they

[29:57] will double check and make sure that the

[29:59] arithmetic was accurate, that the

[30:01] tickers from the electronic voting

[30:03] machines were uh accurate, that the

[30:05] right numbers were called into the

[30:06] secretary of the state of the board of

[30:08] the elections. and they'll go through

[30:10] and essentially doublech checkck all of

[30:11] the numbers. Um, by the end of the day,

[30:15] at that point, uh, the web campaign

[30:17] should have a better idea whether in

[30:19] fact there's potential for them to make

[30:21] up uh, the 10 or 11,000 votes. In other

[30:24] words, they may discover that there was

[30:26] a massive computer glitch or that

[30:28] numbers were added incorrectly or that

[30:29] for whatever reason votes were not

[30:31] counted. If that's the case, then

[30:33] obviously that increases the likelihood

[30:35] that once the election is certified 10

[30:37] days from now, then the Allen campaign

[30:39] would say, "Yeah, we want a recount."

[30:41] Knowing that there's some votes there

[30:42] that could make a big difference. On the

[30:44] other hand, if in this canvasing

[30:47] tomorrow, it becomes clear that the

[30:49] official count uh provided uh last

[30:52] evening was accurate, that there wasn't

[30:54] some major computer glitch. uh then it

[30:57] becomes sort of a whole new ball game, a

[30:59] question of, you know, can you figure

[31:00] out some way of making up 10,000 votes

[31:02] if it doesn't appear that those votes

[31:04] exist for you?

[31:05] >> Have there been any claims by the by the

[31:08] Allen campaign that there have been

[31:09] irregularities or failures to count

[31:11] accurately?

[31:12] >> No, the u the Allen campaign now uh is

[31:16] not sure. I mean, they're just saying,

[31:17] "Look, we just need to go back and do

[31:19] the canvasing that's warranted under

[31:20] state law and uh and go back and see."

[31:23] But there haven't been any accusations

[31:25] really on either side, Chris, that there

[31:26] was either any major sort of computer

[31:28] glitch or that the math was done

[31:30] improperly or that there was some number

[31:31] that wasn't counted. There is one issue

[31:33] though that has come up with both

[31:35] campaigns and that is apparently a large

[31:37] number of military absentee ballots were

[31:40] either never mailed to military bases or

[31:43] that people who are from Virginia who

[31:45] wanted to vote or serving in the

[31:46] military for whatever reason they didn't

[31:48] get their ballots or they weren't faxed

[31:50] properly. So that's a whole

[31:51] >> Well, if you haven't voted, you can't

[31:53] make a claim to have the right to

[31:54] subsequently vote, can you?

[31:57] >> Well, yes and no. Uh you you can't. But

[32:00] there's something called a provisional

[32:01] ballot, which for example, at the polls,

[32:03] if you go to the polls, you're not

[32:04] >> they had to have had to have claimed

[32:06] those uh provisional ballots on election

[32:09] day. You must vote on election day,

[32:11] right? Or earlier.

[32:12] >> That's right. You must vote on election

[32:14] day. I think the issue is is there some

[32:16] sort of issue with provisional ballots

[32:17] say um at you know one of the military

[32:20] bases in Virginia. Remember you're

[32:22] talking about you know you know I think

[32:23] 750,000

[32:25] um um military veterans and and

[32:27] certainly a large number of active duty

[32:29] in Virginia. So there's some question

[32:30] about people who are in active duty

[32:32] military. How did they get their ballots

[32:34] in on election day if they did?

[32:37] >> Okay, David, I think I can say good

[32:38] night to you now. Can I? [laughter]

[32:40] Yeah, I can say good night and we'll

[32:42] we'll be back up in just a couple of

[32:43] hours.

[32:44] >> I think we're going to Morris code next

[32:46] after the phones have failed. But

[32:47] anyway, thank you Dave Sh. You're a

[32:49] great reporter. Here's a look at some

[32:50] notable losers tonight. I'm going to

[32:52] read these boards. It's always brutal,

[32:54] but here we go. Late in the morning now.

[32:56] It's almost 5:00 now. Let's take a look

[32:58] at some of these losers. I'm looking

[32:59] down here. I can look up as well. Here

[33:01] they come.

[33:05] I'm waiting. I'm I'm conscious here.

[33:07] What we do is we show these things. We

[33:09] call them cards. We've been showing him

[33:10] all night. I was watching these things.

[33:12] I was a kid. These are the things that

[33:14] tell you what happened. Here's I love

[33:15] this way. It's done electronically in

[33:17] California. Arnold Schwarzenegger is a

[33:19] winner clearly against Phil Angel's the

[33:21] state treasurer. He clobbered the poor

[33:22] guy. Angel is a good liberal guy, but

[33:25] has no star quality like this guy.

[33:26] Obviously, it blew him away. Well, that

[33:30] was an attempt to show you all the

[33:31] losers. We're going to have maybe Here

[33:33] they are right now. Let's take a look at

[33:34] the losers.

[33:35] >> No, no, that's not us. [laughter]

[33:38] You know, I am a victim. I'm a victim of

[33:40] my Well, that wouldn't be acceptable,

[33:41] but I am a victim of my tools here. I

[33:44] have to tell you, I love election night.

[33:46] I'm a little tired now, but I have to

[33:47] tell you that u I u I made a prediction

[33:50] in the Washington Post, which was

[33:52] sealed, and I don't mind saying what it

[33:53] was now. It was that the Democrats would

[33:55] pick up five seats in the Senate, and

[33:57] they would pick up 27 seats in the

[33:59] House. I must say, I was I was sort of

[34:02] chasened away from the bigger numbers.

[34:04] Uh at the end of the week, I began to

[34:05] think, wait a minute, it's not going to

[34:07] be that big.

[34:08] >> And yet, uh people like Chuck Todd were

[34:10] saying, "It's either going to be big or

[34:11] nothing. You can't play the game of

[34:13] coming out in the middle." Of course, I

[34:14] tried to play the game of coming out in

[34:16] the middle because I thought a rational

[34:17] person would say it's like a twothirds

[34:19] of a tsunami. It's not a full tsunami.

[34:21] And what we're watching tonight and this

[34:23] morning rather, the morning after is

[34:25] what looks like a tsunami came through

[34:26] here. Something really big, a real burp

[34:29] of anger against the establishment which

[34:32] may be growing. this next year could be

[34:35] more.

[34:35] >> I could tell there was an earthquake. I

[34:37] wasn't sure there was a tsunami and that

[34:39] that we had that. I think part of what

[34:41] happened,

[34:42] >> you know, if you could if you continue

[34:43] the storm analogy growing up in Florida,

[34:46] hurricanes always lose strength as I

[34:48] approached shore. And I think over the

[34:49] weekend it might have dropped from a

[34:51] category 5 to four, but once it hit

[34:53] shore, the levies broke.

[34:55] >> All that jingling over the weekend

[34:57] didn't add it to much. Let's take a look

[34:58] now at some of the losers last night.

[35:00] Here they are.

[35:06] Bob Casey defeating Rick Santorm. Look

[35:08] at those numbers. They are astounding.

[35:10] For anybody who's watched this election

[35:11] with 99% of the vote, hold up that card.

[35:14] We thought this election would be maybe

[35:15] a 10 10point spread, maybe 12. Look at

[35:18] this. 59 to 41, an 18point spread. How

[35:21] many incumbents have ever been beaten?

[35:23] You know, really thumped like that. Bob

[35:25] Casey Jr. with well over two two million

[35:27] votes. And let's take a look now at at

[35:30] Rick Santorm's concession. Another

[35:32] thumping, 12-point thumping there in the

[35:34] Iowa Senate race. These are not close

[35:36] calls. U a lot to do with economics.

[35:39] Let's take a look at Rick Santorm's uh

[35:41] concession speech. It was really I

[35:43] thought I know you can be I'll be

[35:45] accused of being too soft here, but I

[35:47] was caught with this.

[35:50] I cannot tell you what a privilege it's

[35:51] been. What a privilege it's been to

[35:55] serve this great commonwealth. I mean,

[35:57] we travel around. We, you know, we just

[35:59] did 19 counties here in the last five

[36:01] days. And the people in this state just

[36:06] are so resilient. They're so committed

[36:11] and strong and and you know, they're

[36:13] also pretty darn tough and opinionated

[36:16] and uh and that sometimes is a good

[36:19] thing. Today, not such a good thing. But

[36:22] I respect the people here. I love them.

[36:25] I thank you. And I mean this from all of

[36:27] us. You have blessed us with a gift.

[36:31] And I hope that you at least in

[36:33] retrospect think that we didn't just go

[36:36] and bury the gift. We took the gift that

[36:39] you gave us and we used it. We used it

[36:42] to try to do some great things for

[36:45] Pennsylvania and some great things for

[36:48] this country and even the world.

[36:52] Well, that's of course an illusion to

[36:53] the parable of the talents in the New

[36:55] Testament about the man who was given

[36:57] the talents and invested them wisely.

[36:59] There's Rick. He is the real thing.

[37:01] Whatever your politics are, I think Rick

[37:03] Santorm is the real thing. He's a

[37:04] genuine conservative and one of the

[37:06] losers last night. A man who was headed

[37:08] towards the presenty perhaps the

[37:10] presidency and ended up being just

[37:12] another guy that lost the re-election

[37:13] race. Here we have Sheldon White House

[37:14] defeating Lincoln Chaffy handily on the

[37:18] on the issue of Iraq. Never has there

[37:20] been a clearer case. Lincoln Chaffy

[37:22] would never have lost this race had

[37:23] there not been a strong, especially in

[37:26] New England, very strong wind against

[37:28] the war. It's the state in which uh

[37:30] President Bush enjoys his lowest

[37:33] performance rating among the people. The

[37:36] job approval of the president of the

[37:37] United States, George W. Bush in the

[37:39] state of Rhode Island is 23%

[37:42] and that's what Lincoln Chaffy had to

[37:44] defend up there. Here we have Clare

[37:46] McKascal defeating Jim Talent. Another

[37:48] vote that came in very late. The last

[37:50] one we couldn't announce here. We hope

[37:51] to announce more in the next couple of

[37:53] hours. But clearly Claire McCascco, very

[37:56] delightful lady. She's so buoyant. She

[37:58] came through here. We just talked to her

[37:59] uh on television. She's dramatically

[38:01] positive in her politics, I think. And

[38:04] so is Jim Talent, the person she beat,

[38:06] who has in his defeat continued to have

[38:09] a positive job approval in the state of

[38:12] Missouri. Here we have Bill Nelson. Uh

[38:15] we argued about how strong opponent he

[38:17] would have been to a stronger

[38:18] challenger, but Katherine Harris did not

[38:20] pose much of a threat. She was mocked by

[38:24] the Republican establishment, derided by

[38:26] the White House, shunned just the other

[38:28] day, yesterday by the president of

[38:29] United States in Pensacola. He wouldn't

[38:31] even let her come up on the platform. He

[38:33] made her stay down in the uh in the

[38:35] crowd with everyone else. Let's go right

[38:37] now to uh the country where everything

[38:41] about this election is centered in Iraq.

[38:45] Richard Angel, you're one of my heroes.

[38:47] All day long and all night long, we've

[38:50] been counting it. The reaction of the

[38:51] American people to the war in Iraq.

[38:53] What's the impact? What's the reaction

[38:55] there to the news?

[38:58] >> Iraqis are very much, Chris, trying to

[39:00] figure out what this means. There's been

[39:02] special call-in programs on Iraqi state

[39:04] television where people have been been

[39:07] calling in talking to government spokes

[39:09] spokespeople to analysts asking exactly

[39:12] what does this mean? What impact if any

[39:15] will this have on policy here in Iraq.

[39:18] The American troop presence in

[39:19] particular has such a tremendous

[39:22] influence in the daily events in this

[39:24] country. Planes can't take off from

[39:26] Baghdad International Airport without

[39:28] American support, without American

[39:30] choppers giving them some uh some radar

[39:32] support. Iraqi police, as as we did in a

[39:35] story last week for Nightly News,

[39:37] effectively cannot go out on patrol in

[39:39] in in very dangerous areas unless they

[39:42] have some American protection. So the

[39:45] the government here, the Iraqi

[39:46] government is very much dependent on

[39:48] American troops to move around. the

[39:50] prime minister can't go around the

[39:52] country without Americans helping to

[39:54] secure the roads. So, anytime they there

[39:57] is discussion about major changes in

[39:59] American policy, it uh it it certainly

[40:02] gets the attention of the Iraqi

[40:03] government and of the Iraqi people.

[40:05] People were calling in on this program

[40:08] asking is this the end? Is there going

[40:09] to be a new policy? Is the country going

[40:11] to be divided? And the uh the government

[40:13] spokesman was effectively trying to

[40:15] reassure them saying this is just a

[40:17] congressional election. It is not going

[40:19] to change dramatically policy in Iraq.

[40:22] But obviously that is a that is a major

[40:24] concern here. Even Al Jazzer, the uh the

[40:27] most influential Arabic language news

[40:29] channel is having special programming at

[40:31] the end of this week asking that very

[40:34] question. Is this the start of a new

[40:36] policy in Iraq? So it is uh certainly on

[40:38] the uh on the uh the airwaves here in

[40:40] the Middle East.

[40:41] >> Impressed by the sophistication of the

[40:43] reporting by Al Jazzer. You mentioned uh

[40:45] their reporting. Let me read to you from

[40:47] uh the report I'm getting here from Al

[40:49] Jazzer. The elections have been shaped

[40:51] by an unpopular war in Iraq. Scandal at

[40:54] home and dissatisfaction with George

[40:56] Bush, the president. So, I mean, we've

[40:58] been looking at all these foreign

[40:59] dispatches. They look like fairly

[41:01] accurate accounts of what happened here.

[41:03] All the reading we're getting is that

[41:04] people voted against the war in Iraq.

[41:06] They were voting against a sixth year of

[41:08] a presidential term, a presidential

[41:10] tenure, which tends to be negative in

[41:12] terms of the attitude people have

[41:14] towards the president. And the word

[41:16] scandal uh received an enormous

[41:18] prominence in the polling, the exit

[41:20] polling, almost at the level of the Iraq

[41:22] war. So I guess they're getting a good

[41:24] report over there. For better or worse,

[41:26] of what happened here, Rich?

[41:29] >> Well, it's different. In Iraq itself,

[41:30] people are trying to figure out what

[41:32] immediate impact it will have. There was

[41:34] all sorts of discussion uh about would

[41:37] Iraq be divided into separate countries.

[41:40] That's something that people here do not

[41:41] want, but that was sent out on the

[41:43] table. There's been a lot of discussion

[41:45] on on programs like yours in in the

[41:48] campaign about very dramatic actions

[41:51] being taken in Iraq. Uh dividing the

[41:53] country for one, a major pullback of

[41:55] troops, setting deadlines. All of these

[41:58] are are decisions that have that are

[42:00] life and death consequences here. We're

[42:02] talking about dividing an entire nation.

[42:04] So Iraqis are are very concerned. People

[42:07] here do generally want some sort of

[42:09] change of course. Uh they would like

[42:12] obviously more safety. They would like

[42:13] their government to to do more, their

[42:16] own security forces to take a much more

[42:19] prominent role and for American troops

[42:21] not to be as present on the streets. But

[42:25] uh it is it is something that Iraqis are

[42:27] very concerned about. In the Arab world,

[42:29] a different kind of uh debate as you

[42:31] were talking about the question on on

[42:34] Alraia and Al Jazzer, the the two main

[42:36] Arabic questions is is this election

[42:39] going to be a turning point for the

[42:41] strategy? and they framed it even with a

[42:43] slightly more opinionated bias, saying,

[42:45] "Is this an opportunity to change the

[42:48] strategy in Iraq?" That was the question

[42:50] they were asking their viewers.

[42:51] >> Okay, Rich Angel over there in Bag,

[42:53] thanks for that report on the aftermath

[42:55] of our presidential elections here at

[42:57] home. We'll all be right back after this

[42:58] break on MSNBC. We continue to cover

[43:01] Decision 2006, The Battleground.

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[46:22] We're back. It's 4:48 and 36 seconds in

[46:25] the morning. I here on the east coast

[46:27] with a amazing election result coming in

[46:30] and still coming in right now. We're

[46:32] going to get more information in a

[46:33] couple minutes about what's happening in

[46:34] Montana. Of course, we're also happening

[46:36] watching what's happening in Virginia

[46:38] because if those two states move the way

[46:39] they're moving, we're going to have a

[46:41] complete turnaround in the United States

[46:43] government with the US Senate following

[46:45] the US House of Representatives into the

[46:47] Democratic calm. What an amazing

[46:49] development. Very few pundits had it

[46:51] this big, but pundits did see that it

[46:53] was headed in this direction. Nobody

[46:54] believed it would go this far. Let me

[46:56] bring in a friend of ours from

[46:57] Philadelphia, and that's Michael

[46:58] Sparkanis, who's often on these airways,

[47:00] who got up early, even earlier than

[47:02] usual to be with us today. Michael, I'm

[47:05] looking at the the results here. Not

[47:07] only did Rick Santorm lose, give a very

[47:09] magnanimous concession speech with his

[47:11] family around,

[47:13] but also look at these. Um, we've got

[47:16] Melissa Hart losing, according to

[47:18] Associated Press, losing in Pennsylvania

[47:20] to Altmire. That's the first big

[47:23] Pennsylvania Republican loss in the

[47:25] House of Representatives. Here's another

[47:26] one. Gerick uh behind, but not

[47:30] definitely loser loser. Nobody's

[47:32] projecting him losing, but look, he has

[47:33] two points behind there. That means

[47:34] something with all these votes in. And

[47:37] we've got Kurt Weldon declared a loser

[47:39] in that race by the Associated Press.

[47:42] losing rather dramatically 56 to 44. Not

[47:45] good for an incumbent of his standing in

[47:47] all those years. That's two losses so

[47:48] far. Hart and Wel no projected here in

[47:51] the Fitzpatrick race which is dead even

[47:52] between the two Irish guys here. Murphy

[47:55] and Fitzpatrick 125,000 votes a piece

[47:57] basically. But there again, Murphy's

[48:00] ahead. The Democratic challenger is

[48:01] ahead. And here we have Carney beating

[48:03] Sherwood up in Scranton. Uh pretty

[48:06] dramatic there. So we've got three wins,

[48:08] three incumbents dumped already, Mike,

[48:10] and two behind. This is amazing. The of

[48:13] the five that were vulnerable, three are

[48:15] gone and two are in big trouble. Michael

[48:17] Spirkish.

[48:18] >> Hey, let me let me show it to you in the

[48:20] newspaper of your old hometown.

[48:22] >> Sure.

[48:22] >> Hehaw says the Philadelphia Daily News

[48:24] this morning. Can you can you get a look

[48:26] at that?

[48:26] >> What does that mean? [laughter]

[48:28] >> Uh, Democratic wave says the Inquirer.

[48:31] By the way, Chris, you look good to me.

[48:33] I mean, I I this is what time I get up.

[48:35] I'm on my way to work. Your coverage was

[48:37] great. I hung with you until about

[48:39] midnight. I think that MSNBC did a

[48:42] fabulous job and I'm the only guy among

[48:44] your panelists who sat in a Barker

[48:46] Lounger with the clicker last night and

[48:48] can tell you how you stacked up against

[48:50] all the other guys. The graphics were

[48:52] great. All the reports were great. The

[48:54] pundits were great. You did a hell of a

[48:55] job. [laughter]

[48:56] >> Well, thank you. I knew I also had we

[48:58] had Dan Abrams, our runs this network.

[49:01] He came in here early tonight and he

[49:02] said that we're also ahead of every

[49:04] other network and in announcing winners

[49:06] and losers that we had the we had the

[49:08] fast track and with regard to reporting

[49:10] the nor the stories last night which is

[49:12] when you get it right the name of the

[49:14] game you got to get them right you got

[49:15] to get them early but right first and I

[49:17] think we did both last night

[49:18] >> I think so as well listen I relative to

[49:21] what's going on in in my neck of the

[49:23] woods I said to you as the election was

[49:25] drawing near that I think I was feeling

[49:28] as the people in New Hampshire or in

[49:30] Iowa feel in presidential election time

[49:32] in that I was living in an area that

[49:34] could determine the outcome of the

[49:35] direction of the country. I'm shocked by

[49:38] the margin of the Santorum race. I'm not

[49:40] surprised that he was defeated, but I

[49:42] always believe that there was a hidden

[49:44] electorate for Rick Santorum. People who

[49:46] found it sort of unfashionable to tell a

[49:48] pollster,

[49:49] >> I know exactly what you mean. you know,

[49:51] and but in the end that didn't turn out

[49:52] to be the case because Fast Eddie's

[49:54] margin is awfully similar to that which

[49:57] Rick Santorum lost by, meaning the

[49:59] gubanatorial race and the Senate race

[50:01] are only about two points behind those

[50:03] suburban congressional battles. If it

[50:06] turns out to be a total blowout of the

[50:08] GOP candidates, that'll be quite a

[50:10] surprise as well because I thought that

[50:11] in suburban Philadelphia, in Bucks

[50:13] County, by way of example, that

[50:15] Fitzpatrick would hold on. as you point

[50:17] out and I've seen those final numbers it

[50:20] it appears that he's still trailing

[50:21] there's some you know some contesting of

[50:23] the ballots going on there but by about

[50:25] 1,200 votes and that Jim Gerlock may be

[50:28] at this point behind Lois Murphy as you

[50:30] just reported that's a real shock to me

[50:32] you know we were briefed here at NBC

[50:34] about two weeks ago when we had this

[50:36] amazing briefing from our top pollsters

[50:38] it was Peter Hart and Bill McInturf you

[50:40] know it's amazing now I can tell you the

[50:42] results I believe I'm covered now by any

[50:44] embargo or I'm not covered anymore

[50:46] They seem to have this whole thing. This

[50:48] is a bipartisan set of pollsters very

[50:51] well respected. They do the Wall Street

[50:53] Journal NBC poll and they had it. They

[50:56] said what was going on in the country

[50:57] and it's reflected in Philadelphia. It

[50:59] isn't an all politics is local thing

[51:01] there. They said what's going on is all

[51:03] the unaffiliated voters, what we call

[51:05] the independents. And when we were

[51:06] growing up, I mean when I was growing

[51:07] up, they were all Republicans who had

[51:09] given up on the Republican party and

[51:10] said they were independents. today.

[51:11] They're a mixed bag, but they all were

[51:14] talking like Democrats. These are the

[51:16] suburbanites, the people who live in

[51:18] those counties around big cities who

[51:20] generally say not they're not

[51:22] affiliated. They're they they spoke to

[51:24] the po the pollsters on the issues of

[51:26] war and other things as if they were

[51:28] Democrats. And it turns out that this

[51:30] year they weren't really unaffiliated.

[51:32] The Republican base held to a large

[51:34] extent the unaffiliated, the

[51:36] nonaffiliated voter, the independent

[51:38] voted with the Democrats. And that's why

[51:40] you're seeing these big switches of

[51:42] power and and but I have to tell you I

[51:44] am amazed too that it's almost a 20

[51:45] point spread with regard to those races.

[51:48] >> Well, let me let me tell you what I

[51:49] think is coming next because I'm I'm

[51:50] trying to focus on what the next step

[51:52] will be. I see a very important battle

[51:55] about to be waged for the direction of

[51:57] the Republican party. And the issue is I

[51:59] see it is whether the evangelical

[52:02] Christian direction of this party,

[52:03] something that I'm personally

[52:05] uncomfortable with. I mean, where does

[52:06] it leave a guy like me? Not to be

[52:08] selfish, but I'm waking up this morning

[52:10] and I'm saying, you know, I've wanted a

[52:11] timet in Iraq for a long, long time. I

[52:14] believe in embryionic stem cell

[52:16] research. I'm a pro-choice guy. Is this

[52:18] party big enough for me? I mean, is the

[52:20] direction as we head toward the

[52:21] presidential race now going to be I can

[52:23] hear the voices of people saying we need

[52:25] to return to the party of Reagan? And I

[52:27] believe there's going to be a battle for

[52:29] that moderate wing of the party versus

[52:30] the more conservative forces who will

[52:32] say we need to return to our roots. Even

[52:34] though I don't believe that's the case,

[52:36] that's what's to come for us.

[52:37] >> Well, that goes back to a point I've

[52:38] made um that I don't think Ronald Reagan

[52:41] would have taken us into Iraq. And this

[52:43] division in your party is over Iraq.

[52:47] It's not just over stem cell and some of

[52:49] these domestic issues. It's over that

[52:51] very unusual decision by a conservative

[52:53] administration to take us into a part of

[52:56] the world in the way that it did in a in

[52:59] a in a war of our choosing, a war of the

[53:01] administration's choosing. that I don't

[53:02] think Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater

[53:04] or George Bush Senior would have ever

[53:06] done and so didn't you know you're going

[53:08] to face a a a conflict with your base

[53:11] with yourself over that issue.

[53:12] >> Well, I I think that the the more

[53:14] immediate bungling has been the the the

[53:16] total failure to articulate an exit

[53:19] strategy. You know, I had an interesting

[53:21] uh interaction.

[53:22] >> Isn't that just another way of saying we

[53:24] want to get out? We didn't want to go

[53:25] in, but would they be happy enough to

[53:26] get out right now?

[53:27] >> Not necessarily. I I think it's a

[53:28] viewpoint that says we we're willing to

[53:30] hold on for a while, but tell us that

[53:32] there's some light at the end of the

[53:34] tunnel and and tell us those

[53:35] circumstances by which we will be

[53:36] getting out. Three weeks ago, I had the

[53:39] opportunity to personally question

[53:40] Donald Rumsfeld on this issue. And I we

[53:43] were in the Pentagon and I said to him,

[53:44] "Mr. Secretary, please tell me that

[53:46] somewhere in this building there's a

[53:48] timetable for how we're going to exit

[53:50] Iraq." And his response to me was to

[53:52] say, "Well, somewhere in this building

[53:54] there are projections." And a week

[53:56] later, there was that that press

[53:57] conference that involved General Casey

[53:59] where they stood up and they tried to

[54:01] articulate the endgame. And what

[54:03] happened? One day later, the Iraqi prime

[54:05] minister stood up and said, "That's not

[54:07] a timetable that we're willing to live

[54:08] with." I mean, there was just never a

[54:10] recognition on the part of the

[54:12] administration that Americans need to

[54:14] know how's it all supposed to turn out

[54:16] even in the best of circumstances. And I

[54:18] think we all lost our patience.

[54:21] >> Michael Spanish in Philadelphia. Please

[54:22] stay with us. You're going to go right

[54:23] now to NBC's Brook Hart. Brooke,

[54:27] >> good morning. Chris, uh, as as you've

[54:30] been reporting, the new House Majority

[54:31] Leader is a Democrat, Nancy Pelosi, who

[54:34] has been directly a uh, gone after by

[54:37] President Bush on the campaign trail, at

[54:38] least in the last few days and weeks as

[54:41] a San Francisco liberal. Well, last

[54:44] night she was among the Democrats who

[54:45] were celebrating uh the fact that the

[54:47] House has now won at least 24 uh

[54:50] Democratic seats, taking it over the

[54:51] edge, pushing Democrats into the

[54:53] majority there. Uh Nancy Pelosi has has

[54:56] backed off her her initial um warnings

[55:00] that about imp possible impeachment of

[55:02] President Bush. lately her language has

[55:04] changed so that she was talking more

[55:06] about accountability,

[55:08] not so much about oversight and strict

[55:10] hearings um about how we got into the

[55:13] Iraq war and that sort of thing because

[55:16] she I think had seen as many Democrats

[55:18] had that this was being used against

[55:20] Democrats on the campaign trail. In

[55:22] fact, she she was being used as a way to

[55:25] warn Republicans and Democrats not to

[55:27] vote Democrat in this election because

[55:30] she would end up being the House

[55:31] Majority Leader. We're expecting to hear

[55:33] from her this morning, 11:00 a.m. She

[55:35] herself is expected to get a phone call

[55:37] from President Bush this morning

[55:38] congratulating her. But the fact of her

[55:41] um her new role in the House as majority

[55:45] leader, it will complicate President

[55:46] Bush's agenda in the final two years uh

[55:49] of his term because she is there.

[55:52] Democrats are in control. We have yet to

[55:54] see what will happen in the Senate. it

[55:55] hangs on these final two races as you've

[55:58] been reporting in Montana and here

[56:01] across the PTOAC in Virginia. That could

[56:03] be the last race we know about. We're

[56:05] expecting to know more about Montana

[56:06] within the next couple of hours. Uh but

[56:08] as you saw last night, George Allen went

[56:10] to bed conceding nothing and that could

[56:12] have been a lesson from the 2000 race.

[56:15] You remember that Al Gore came out and

[56:17] conceded the election and that really

[56:18] put Democrats on their on the defense

[56:21] for the remainder of that recount fight.

[56:24] So nothing has been conceded, although

[56:27] Jim Webb maybe took a page from that

[56:29] 2000 election as well, claiming victory

[56:31] in the Virginia race, but we have yet to

[56:33] see the results there, and we might not

[56:35] know them for days. Uh, as AP is

[56:38] reporting, the spread now is 11,700

[56:40] votes in Virginia. 11,000 is a critical

[56:43] number because under that, the loser can

[56:46] request a recount at state expense.

[56:49] Above that, any recount would have to be

[56:50] a George Allen's expense. We don't know

[56:53] whether he or the Republicans would pony

[56:55] up for that. Um, but at least it it's a

[56:58] symbolic benchmark because the public in

[57:00] Virginia and beyond might see that as

[57:03] sort of the state's threshold under

[57:06] which it's not really uh it is important

[57:09] to hold a recount, but over that that

[57:11] it's not worth it to hold a recount. So,

[57:13] we're going to find that out today as

[57:15] lawyers canvas these polling stations

[57:17] and find out exactly what that spread is

[57:19] in Virginia. But that could tip the

[57:21] balance one way or the other here on

[57:22] Capitol Hill, at least in terms of the

[57:24] Senate.

[57:39] >> Thanks.

[57:43] The smallest moments can have the

[57:45] biggest impact on a child's life.

[57:49] Have you been a dad today?