This Week (ABC) - 2009-05-10

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:01] Good morning, and welcome to this week.

[0:03] Our exclusive headliners today, General

[0:06] Jim Jones, Senator John [music] McCain.

[0:08] >> We are focused on Al-Qaeda,

[0:11] but we're also focused on extremism

[0:12] [music]

[0:13] of any form.

[0:14] >> In his first Sunday interview, the

[0:16] president's national security [music]

[0:17] advisor confronts two wars, Dick

[0:20] Cheney's scorn, terrorists in the US,

[0:22] and gays in the military. Then,

[0:26] the GOP's candidate [music] in 2008

[0:28] weighs in on Obama's start and his

[0:30] party's future. I realize that elections

[0:33] have consequences. [music]

[0:35] McCain and Jones, only on This Week.

[0:38] Plus, now's the time to put

[0:41] a new foundation

[0:42] for growth in place. The recession may

[0:45] be winding down, but will lingering job

[0:47] [music] loss and record deficits stall

[0:49] Obama's agenda? That in the rest of the

[0:51] week's politics [music] on our round

[0:52] table with George Will, Cokie Roberts,

[0:54] Sam Donaldson, and Robert Reich.

[0:57] And, as always, the Sunday funnies. That

[1:00] was hot today. Wasn't I tell you? Ooh, I

[1:02] was sweating like John Edwards waiting

[1:03] to watch his WIFE ON OPRAH.

[1:08] FROM THE heart of [music] the nation's

[1:09] capital, This Week with ABC News Chief

[1:13] Washington Correspondent [music]

[1:15] George Stephanopoulos, live from the

[1:18] Newseum on Pennsylvania [music] Avenue.

[1:22] Hello again, and happy Mother's Day to

[1:24] all the moms watching. We're going to

[1:26] begin with a Sunday first, General James

[1:27] Jones. Welcome to This Week. Your first

[1:29] appearance as national security advisor.

[1:31] Exactly. Thank you. You all had a busy

[1:32] week this week. The heads of Afghanistan

[1:34] and Pakistan came here to the United

[1:37] States to meet with the president, to

[1:38] meet with the president's entire team,

[1:40] and you seem to be on the same page.

[1:41] Yet, after the meetings, the president

[1:43] of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, said that

[1:46] all air strikes, all American air

[1:48] strikes in Afghanistan, must end. Will

[1:51] the US comply with that demand?

[1:53] Well, I think that we're going to take a

[1:54] look at

[1:56] trying to make sure that we correct

[1:57] those things we can correct, but

[1:59] certainly to

[2:01] tie the hands of our commanders to say

[2:02] we're not going to conduct air strikes

[2:05] would be would be imprudent. That's part

[2:07] of the

[2:08] combined arms package, and

[2:10] so we probably would not do that, but

[2:13] but we are going to take very seriously

[2:15] the

[2:17] and redouble our efforts to make sure

[2:18] that innocent civilians uh Does Does

[2:20] President Karzai understand that you're

[2:22] not going to comply with that demand,

[2:23] and what do you expect his reaction to

[2:24] be?

[2:25] Well, I think he understands that we

[2:26] have to

[2:28] we have to have the full complement of

[2:30] of

[2:31] of our of our offensive military power

[2:33] when

[2:34] when we need it. We have to we we can't

[2:36] fight with one hand tied behind our

[2:37] back. But, on the other hand, uh we have

[2:40] to be careful to make sure that we don't

[2:42] uh unnecessarily

[2:43] wound or kill innocent civilians, but

[2:46] the other side of the coin is that it

[2:48] make what makes it difficult is the

[2:49] Taliban, of course, not playing by the

[2:51] same rules. They're using civilians as

[2:52] shields.

[2:53] So, we have to

[2:55] take a look at this, make sure that our

[2:57] commanders uh understand uh

[2:59] uh the

[3:00] you know, the the the subtleties of the

[3:02] situation, the complexity of it, and do

[3:03] the right thing. So, it's it's a it's a

[3:05] difficult problem, but it's not uh

[3:06] unsolvable. President Karzai also said

[3:08] while he was here that he believes Osama

[3:10] bin Laden is alive. Yet, President

[3:13] Zardari of Pakistan says he thinks bin

[3:15] Laden is dead. What is the best US

[3:17] intelligence right now?

[3:19] I think the the the best

[3:21] the best intelligence is that we we

[3:23] gauge our reaction based on uh what what

[3:26] intelligence we have, and and it is

[3:28] inconclusive. Uh secondly, we we wait

[3:31] and see how long it's been before we've

[3:33] seen him actually uh

[3:35] make a statement, release a video, and

[3:37] and make our our judgments on that. The

[3:38] truth is, I don't think anybody knows

[3:39] for

[3:40] >> me ask you about that, because we saw

[3:41] some audio tapes from Osama bin Laden

[3:43] both January and March of this year, and

[3:45] I my it's my understanding that US

[3:46] intelligence thought that those were

[3:48] authentic.

[3:48] >> Mhm. So, so what's changed since then to

[3:51] make the intelligence inconclusive?

[3:54] Well,

[3:55] as of March, they thought it was

[3:57] authentic, but we don't have any we

[3:58] don't have any firm information that

[4:01] says that that has changed one way or

[4:03] the other. So, I think I I think uh

[4:06] we'll just continue to press on, and

[4:08] we'll see what happens.

[4:09] >> gut tell you?

[4:10] I I

[4:11] my gut I I would like to know

[4:13] conclusively if that's not the case, and

[4:15] I don't think we have that evidence.

[4:16] >> Does it matter anymore if he's dead or

[4:18] alive? I think it matters symbolically

[4:20] to the movement, for sure, but but it's

[4:22] clear that that movement is has has been

[4:24] very resilient in replacing their

[4:26] leaders as quickly as we're able to

[4:28] capture or eliminate them.

[4:29] Um but I think symbolically it would be

[4:32] a very big thing if he weren't.

[4:34] Uh let me ask you about Vice President

[4:35] Cheney. He's been on something of a

[4:36] media tour lately, and and the big point

[4:39] he's making is that Obama administration

[4:42] actions, repealing some of the Bush

[4:44] administration counterterrorism

[4:45] policies, announcing that you're going

[4:47] to close Guantanamo, ending enhanced

[4:49] interrogation techniques, are all

[4:52] putting America at risk of another

[4:54] attack. Now, that is a serious charge

[4:57] coming from a former vice president.

[4:59] What's your response?

[5:00] Well, I I I would

[5:03] I would not I would take issue with some

[5:04] of those allegations, and I think,

[5:05] frankly, in the Bush administration,

[5:07] there wasn't complete agreement with the

[5:10] vice president on that score.

[5:12] Uh the the truth of the matter is that

[5:16] the Obama administration inherited a

[5:17] situation that uh

[5:19] Guantanamo that was intolerable. Um

[5:23] There are only two people who had been

[5:25] uh

[5:26] uh who had who had entered a plea.

[5:29] They both were released with time

[5:30] served. Uh

[5:32] hundreds of people went through

[5:33] Guantanamo and were released. Many of

[5:35] those are back on the battlefield right

[5:37] now

[5:38] waging war against us again.

[5:40] Um the Obama administration has put a

[5:43] stop to that temporarily, as you know.

[5:46] Uh we do have some decision points

[5:48] coming up.

[5:49] The president is absolutely committed to

[5:52] making sure that uh

[5:54] uh that uh we we recognize the the rule

[5:57] of law principle, that we don't make

[5:59] America less safe, and that we we

[6:02] continue to try to find the uh the right

[6:05] balance in what could be a multi-layered

[6:07] approach.

[6:07] >> I want to get to more on Guantanamo in a

[6:08] second, but let me just press this one

[6:10] more time. The vice president, former

[6:11] vice president, says the Obama

[6:13] administration is putting America at

[6:14] risk of another attack.

[6:16] Well, I don't believe that.

[6:19] That's clear enough. Let me ask you more

[6:20] about Guantanamo then, because

[6:23] the Congress has sent several more

[6:25] strong messages to the administration

[6:26] about Guantanamo this week. The chairman

[6:28] of the House Appropriations Committee,

[6:30] David Obey,

[6:31] did not include the money for closing

[6:33] Guantanamo in his war spending bill, and

[6:36] Republican leaders in the Congress have

[6:38] mounted a campaign against bringing any

[6:40] of the detainees from Guantanamo into

[6:42] the United States. Here's Senator Kit

[6:44] Bond.

[6:45] Whether these terrorists are coming to a

[6:47] prison in Kansas or a halfway house in

[6:50] Missouri or any other state, I can tell

[6:52] you this,

[6:54] Americans don't want these terrorists in

[6:56] their neighborhoods. In fact, the

[6:57] Republican leadership is introducing

[6:59] legislation called the Keep Terrorists

[7:01] Out of America Act, which would require

[7:03] approval from both the governor and the

[7:05] state legislature of a state before any

[7:07] detainees can be brought in. What does

[7:09] the administration think of that

[7:10] legislation?

[7:12] Well, the first thing I would say about

[7:14] that is that there has been no decision

[7:16] taken. This is an issue that we are

[7:19] the president is studying, but absent a

[7:22] a final determination, this is all uh

[7:25] a speculation.

[7:26] >> But, you have determined that you don't

[7:27] know exactly how that because we're

[7:29] asking other countries to take

[7:31] detainees, that we're probably going to

[7:32] have to take some as well. Secretary

[7:34] Gates said that to the Congress this

[7:35] week.

[7:35] >> have to we're going to have to figure

[7:36] that out, and those those discussions

[7:38] are currently underway. So, it'd be

[7:39] premature to to comment on what the

[7:41] president might or might not do at this

[7:42] particular point.

[7:43] >> But, how about the legislation? They're

[7:44] saying before anyone comes back, a

[7:46] governor and a state legislature must

[7:48] approve. Do you have any problems with

[7:49] that? Well, that that'll we'll take that

[7:51] under advisement. These are near-term

[7:53] subjects that are currently being

[7:54] discussed, and and that that is going to

[7:57] have to be one of the one of the

[7:58] decision points, and one of the

[7:59] discussions that we'll have on this

[8:01] issue, but it hasn't been determined

[8:02] yet. This

[8:04] I'm just a little confused on that,

[8:05] because Secretary Gates did say a couple

[8:07] of things when he testified this week.

[8:09] He did say that some would have to be

[8:12] brought into the United States. He said

[8:13] there's this problem of 50 to 100

[8:14] detainees who can't be tried and can't

[8:17] be released, and we're going to have to

[8:18] find a way. In fact, the Pentagon is

[8:20] looking at even building a prison. Here,

[8:22] so you know you've already made the

[8:23] threshold decision that some detainees

[8:25] are going to have to come to the United

[8:26] States. Well, if you're going to ask

[8:28] others to take it, you're going to have

[8:29] to figure that out. Others to take some,

[8:31] you're going to have to figure out how

[8:32] to do that, and that's where we are

[8:33] right now. No decision has been taken as

[8:35] to exactly how to do that.

[8:37] >> Because this is become so thorny, you

[8:39] know, the president wants to close

[8:40] Guantanamo by the January deadline.

[8:43] Are you open to extending that deadline?

[8:45] This has turned out to be quite a

[8:47] difficult decision to implement. Well,

[8:49] the

[8:50] again, the

[8:52] the the very discussions on these issues

[8:54] and how to do this are are currently on

[8:56] the table at the White House. Um we are

[9:00] uh

[9:00] coming up on the on the 20 May deadline

[9:02] for a decision, so there there will be

[9:04] some announcements made in the near

[9:05] future, but no decision has been taken

[9:07] yet. Uh but but the president has not

[9:09] ruled out bringing back military

[9:10] commissions to try them, either,

[9:11] correct?

[9:12] >> I think uh the all all options are on

[9:15] the table.

[9:16] The the president has

[9:19] has said that at some point there may be

[9:21] a multi-layered approach that has to be

[9:23] that has to be uh

[9:25] developed in order to solve this

[9:26] problem, but it's clear that uh

[9:29] we want to maintain our values. We want

[9:31] to protect the the traditional process,

[9:33] and

[9:34] this president is not going to do

[9:36] anything that's going to make America

[9:38] safe less safe and by bringing um

[9:42] uh by bringing people into the country

[9:44] that is going to put our citizens at

[9:46] risk. That's simply not going to happen.

[9:47] Let me bring up the issue of of gays in

[9:49] the military. The president has said he

[9:50] wants to reform that policy, allow gays

[9:54] to serve openly in the military. And

[9:55] actually, a remarkable letter from the

[9:57] president was released this week to

[9:59] Lieutenant Sandy Tsao, who was a service

[10:01] person who was discharged from the

[10:03] military because she's a lesbian. And

[10:06] there's this handwritten note I want to

[10:07] show our viewers right now from the

[10:08] president to Sandy in which he says,

[10:10] "Thanks for your wonderful and

[10:11] thoughtful letter. It is because of

[10:13] outstanding Americans like you that I

[10:15] committed to changing our current

[10:17] policy. Although it will take some time

[10:19] to complete, partly because it needs

[10:20] congressional action, I intend to

[10:22] fulfill my commitment. Barack Obama."

[10:26] Now, this is in the Congress right now.

[10:28] It would take legislation to completely

[10:30] overturn, but some of the president's

[10:31] supporters,

[10:32] like Congressman Rush Holt of New

[10:34] Jersey, say that what the president can

[10:35] do right now is issue an executive order

[10:38] to review the policy and order the

[10:40] military to stop investigations and

[10:42] prosecutions while that review is going

[10:44] on, while the Congress is considering

[10:47] this legislation. Will the president

[10:48] issue such an order?

[10:50] Well, that that is up of course up to

[10:52] the president. And and the this issue is

[10:55] something that has been brought up

[10:57] during the campaign.

[10:58] We have had preliminary discussions with

[11:02] the leadership of the Pentagon,

[11:03] Secretary Gates, the the chairman of the

[11:05] Joint Chiefs.

[11:06] This is, as you know, George, better

[11:08] than most. This is a an issue that is

[11:11] not going to be a light switch, but more

[11:13] of a rheostat in terms of

[11:16] discussing it and building the having

[11:18] the discussions that that have to be had

[11:21] with um

[11:22] the military in order to make sure the

[11:24] good order and discipline of the

[11:25] military continues.

[11:26] >> And I understand that, and this is a

[11:27] complicated issue.

[11:28] >> a complicated issue. It will be it will

[11:30] be teed up appropriately, and it will be

[11:32] discussed in the in the way the

[11:33] president does things, which is be very

[11:35] deliberate, very thoughtful, seeking out

[11:37] all all sides on the issue and trying to

[11:39] make trying to do that.

[11:40] >> president's against the policy, why not

[11:42] suspend prosecutions and investigations

[11:45] while that review continues?

[11:46] >> Well, maybe that's an option that

[11:48] eventually we'll get to, but but we're

[11:50] not there now. A lot of your former

[11:52] colleagues in the military, a thousand

[11:55] flag and general officers, including 54

[11:57] stars, have written a letter to the

[11:58] president opposing any change in the

[12:01] policy,

[12:02] saying that their past experiences

[12:03] military leaders make them concerned

[12:05] about it. They think it's going to have

[12:06] an effect on morale, discipline, unit

[12:08] cohesion. What do you say to your former

[12:10] colleagues?

[12:11] Well, I think, as I said, this is

[12:13] illustrative of the fact that this this

[12:15] is a a very sensitive issue, and it has

[12:17] to be has to be discussed over time, and

[12:19] it has all all sides have to be heard.

[12:22] But I think most of us who served in the

[12:25] military believe that uh the standards

[12:28] of of conduct is what determines the

[12:30] good order and discipline. So, as long

[12:32] as conduct for by all members of the

[12:34] military is not detrimental to the good

[12:35] order and discipline, then you have you

[12:38] have cohesion in the ranks. And but

[12:40] there's there's

[12:41] >> gets to the heart of the problem. I

[12:42] mean, if you're saying that any kind of

[12:44] homosexual

[12:45] act is conduct

[12:47] >> I'm saying that that that it applies it

[12:50] has to be a uniform policy for all

[12:53] members of the military in order in

[12:55] order to function as the military has to

[12:57] function. We will have long discussions

[13:00] about this. It will be thoughtful, it

[13:02] will be deliberate. The president, I

[13:03] know, will reach out

[13:05] to to to fully understand the both sides

[13:09] or all sides of the of the issue before

[13:11] he makes a decision.

[13:12] >> But it will be overturned? I don't know.

[13:15] We'll we'll have to the president has

[13:16] said that he's in favor of that. We'll

[13:18] just wait we'll have to wait to see

[13:20] at the result of as result of the

[13:22] deliberations and as result of the uh

[13:25] the

[13:26] the in the months and weeks ahead. We

[13:27] have a lot on our plate right now. It

[13:29] all has to be teed up at the right time

[13:30] so to to do this the right way. Let me

[13:32] ask you one final question. Prime

[13:33] Minister Netanyahu of Israel is coming

[13:35] to the United States next week. He'll be

[13:37] here next Monday. And the Israeli

[13:39] newspaper Haaretz reported on a telegram

[13:42] reporting on a meeting between you and a

[13:44] European foreign minister. Let me show

[13:45] you

[13:46] what that said. It said that according

[13:49] to this telegram, you told the foreign

[13:51] minister the new administration will

[13:53] convince Israel to compromise on the

[13:54] Palestinian question. We will not push

[13:56] Israel under the wheels of a bus, but we

[13:58] will be more forceful toward Israel than

[14:00] we have been under Bush. Jones is quoted

[14:02] in the telegram as saying that the US,

[14:04] EU, and moderate Arab states must define

[14:07] must redefine a satisfactory end game

[14:10] solution. Does that mean that you're

[14:11] going to press Prime Minister Netanyahu

[14:13] to fully accept a two-state solution? I

[14:16] think it means that this administration

[14:18] is going to engage

[14:20] fully. That is to say using all aspects

[14:23] of the interagency process to make sure

[14:26] that

[14:27] the security of Israel is not

[14:28] compromised, that the the issue of

[14:31] Palestinian sovereignty is also has its

[14:33] place at the table.

[14:35] There are many expectations around the

[14:37] world in the in the Arab world and in

[14:39] the European community that we are at a

[14:42] moment where we can make progress

[14:45] with regard to the the Middle East. It's

[14:48] going to take American leadership and

[14:49] American involvement, and I think the uh

[14:52] the signal is going to be that uh that

[14:54] at all levels of our of our government,

[14:56] we're going to do everything we can to

[14:58] encourage this

[15:00] long-standing problem to to gradually

[15:03] come to show clear progress

[15:06] that we're intent on doing.

[15:07] >> Is there any way to make progress if

[15:09] Israel doesn't say they're clearly for a

[15:10] two-state solution? I think obviously

[15:13] Israel has said it's for a two-state

[15:14] solution at least

[15:16] >> hasn't said that yet.

[15:16] >> That was the position of the of the

[15:18] former government, and uh

[15:20] we understand

[15:22] Israel's preoccupation with Iran as an

[15:24] existential threat. We we agree with

[15:26] that. Um

[15:27] and um

[15:29] but by the same token, there are a lot

[15:30] of things that you can do to diminish

[15:31] that existential threat by working hard

[15:34] towards achieving a two-state solution.

[15:35] This is a this is a very strategic

[15:38] issue. It's extremely important, and

[15:40] we're looking forward to having a good

[15:42] constructive dialogue with our Israeli

[15:44] friends when they visit Washington in

[15:45] the next seven seven or eight days.

[15:47] >> General Jones, thank you very much for

[15:48] your time this morning.

[15:49] >> you. Thanks. And now let me bring in

[15:50] Senator John McCain. Welcome again.

[15:52] Thank you, George.

[15:53] >> You just heard General Jones. Let's pick

[15:54] up right there. Does President Obama

[15:56] have to say quite clearly to Prime

[15:58] Minister Netanyahu, "We've got to begin

[16:00] with a two-state solution"?

[16:02] Well, I I think that that it's been

[16:06] previous policy on a previous

[16:08] Israeli governments. We respect the

[16:10] results of the of the democratic

[16:12] process, and the fact is that I think

[16:15] that we have to push the entire peace

[16:18] process forward, but I'm not sure the

[16:20] timing is right right now with a new

[16:22] government in Israel for us to dictate

[16:25] to them their policy. But I applaud the

[16:29] Obama administration's

[16:31] renewed efforts to try and move this

[16:34] process forward. Let me also ask you

[16:36] about Guantanamo. You saw that the

[16:37] general I talked about that, and you and

[16:39] President Obama share the same goal. You

[16:41] you both say that Guantanamo should be

[16:44] closed. You and the president share the

[16:45] same goal on the enhanced interrogation

[16:48] techniques. Yet, especially on

[16:50] Guantanamo right now, it appears that

[16:51] there has been rising opposition to the

[16:54] Congress to this what appears to be a

[16:56] necessity that some of these detainees

[16:58] are going to have to come to the United

[17:00] States. So, how do you work with

[17:02] President Obama to meet the goal that

[17:04] you both have set? Well, I don't know

[17:06] how you how you walk it back to the

[17:08] initial announcement, to announce you're

[17:10] going to close Guantanamo within a year

[17:12] and not have a comprehensive package for

[17:15] how you address these issues that

[17:17] understandably have arisen. I mean, what

[17:19] what do you do with what kind of process

[17:21] do you put the people through who

[17:23] remain? How do you ensure that they

[17:24] don't return to the battlefield as about

[17:28] 10% of them have, including some very

[17:30] high-ranking people. What should have

[17:33] taken place, in my view, was the

[17:35] announcement of the closing and an

[17:38] announcement of exactly how we're going

[17:40] to put these people on trial. The

[17:42] Military Commissions Act there that

[17:45] Senator Graham and I originally proposed

[17:47] is clearly what they are returning to.

[17:49] How you where you're going to put the

[17:51] people that are enemy combatants that

[17:54] you don't have enough information to

[17:55] convict them, but it's clear

[17:57] >> That's that key group of 50 to 100 that

[17:59] are probably going to have to come and

[18:01] be detained here in the United States,

[18:02] correct?

[18:03] >> I don't know what they're going to do

[18:05] because

[18:06] >> I would certainly be

[18:09] would Well, I don't know if I would be

[18:12] quote opposed to it cuz I would probably

[18:13] want to judge them on a case-by-case

[18:15] basis. I understand the local objection

[18:19] and senators and congressmen's objection

[18:22] to saying, "Here's some people that

[18:23] we're just going to dump onto the

[18:25] community." So, but we could have

[18:27] avoided all this if there had been an

[18:29] announcement of the closure of

[18:30] Guantanamo and the process for resolving

[18:34] the cases of people who are detained

[18:36] there. Whether you release them, whether

[18:38] you ask other countries to take them,

[18:41] what the process for trial is, what the

[18:44] process of those that you just discussed

[18:46] who are quote enemy combatants, but you

[18:48] can't convict. That is a terrible

[18:50] mistake. Announce the closure, but don't

[18:53] address the underlying problems that a

[18:55] lot of us have been wrestling with for

[18:57] years.

[18:57] >> So, but how how how do you fix it now?

[18:59] I would say I'm not going to close

[19:01] Guantanamo until I have a comprehensive

[19:05] approach to every aspect of this problem

[19:07] of the detainees. How you put them on

[19:09] trial, who tries them, what are the

[19:11] rules of evidence, what's the case of

[19:13] interrogation techniques that were used,

[19:16] at which time with the

[19:18] that that evidence would be admissible.

[19:20] There's a whole series of

[19:22] issues.

[19:23] >> no longer for closing

[19:24] >> closing Guantanamo, and I said I was for

[19:26] closing it. But I'm for a comprehensive

[19:28] solution of all the issues surrounding

[19:31] Guantanamo, which now obviously are

[19:33] facing serious roadblocks in Congress

[19:36] because the announcement was made

[19:37] without addressing the underlying

[19:39] problems associated

[19:40] >> So, relax the deadline, no January

[19:41] deadline? I I would

[19:44] I would relax I never would I said I

[19:46] want to close Guantanamo, but I also

[19:48] said I wanted to address all the issues.

[19:50] So, I never set a deadline. But, so I

[19:53] No, I wouldn't set a specific date until

[19:56] I had resolved all the issues

[19:58] surrounding the detaining question,

[20:00] including a military commission that

[20:03] would be

[20:05] appointed and authorized to address some

[20:08] of these of these cases.

[20:10] >> this issue of don't ask, don't tell?

[20:11] It's now been bedeviling the military

[20:13] for 15, 16 uh years right now. Growing

[20:17] support to reform the policy. More than

[20:20] 100 members of Congress say it should be

[20:21] reformed. Former Chairman of the Joint

[20:24] Chiefs like General

[20:25] Charlie Crist

[20:26] have said it should be reformed. Where

[20:28] are you on that today? And how would you

[20:30] reform the policy if at all?

[20:32] >> Again, I've said for months I'll be glad

[20:34] to have a thorough review of the policy

[20:36] by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and their

[20:38] recommendations. You might recall it was

[20:40] General Powell who weighed in back early

[20:42] on in the Clinton administration that

[20:44] said we need to have this policy and

[20:47] it's been successful. We now have the

[20:48] best trained, best equipped, most

[20:50] professional military in the history of

[20:52] this country in my in my view. So, I

[20:56] would rely on a study by the Joint

[20:58] Chiefs of Staff as how the impact of

[20:59] changing this policy would have on our

[21:02] ability to carry out our military

[21:04] missions and then I would make judgments

[21:07] from there.

[21:08] But,

[21:09] in all due respect, right now the

[21:12] military is functioning extremely well

[21:15] in very difficult conditions. We have to

[21:18] have an assessment on recruitment, on

[21:20] retention, and all the other aspects of

[21:22] the impact on our military if we change

[21:25] the policy. In my view, and I know that

[21:28] a lot of people don't agree with that,

[21:29] the policy has been working and I think

[21:31] it's been working well. Let me ask you

[21:33] about your party.

[21:35] Not working. [laughter]

[21:36] Not working as well. You've got this

[21:39] Time magazine cover this [clears throat]

[21:40] week saying endangered species for

[21:42] Republicans. Is your party an endangered

[21:44] species? I probably would not go to that

[21:47] lengths. We all work in cycles.

[21:50] Many for many years we have seen parties

[21:53] down and parties up. That's a great

[21:55] thing about American politics. With

[21:56] having said that,

[21:58] do we have to do a better job of getting

[22:00] our message out?

[22:02] Do we have to do a better job recruiting

[22:04] candidates? Do we have to do a better

[22:06] job of outreach outreach to many

[22:09] Americans that don't feel that they can

[22:11] be part of our party? Absolutely.

[22:14] Absolutely. And this conversation that

[22:17] Eric Cantor which some have criticized

[22:19] and others have become, I think it's a

[22:20] great thing. Why not have a conversation

[22:22] with the American people? Find out what

[22:24] they want.

[22:25] >> Vice President Cheney's been part of

[22:26] that conversation as well and he's been

[22:28] saying that the party should not

[22:30] moderate. Here's what he said this week.

[22:33] I think it'd be a mistake for us to

[22:35] moderate. The idea that we ought to

[22:36] moderate basically means we ought to

[22:38] fundamentally change our philosophy.

[22:40] And [clears throat]

[22:41] I for one am

[22:43] not prepared to do that and I think

[22:45] most of us aren't.

[22:47] I think it mean what what we're kind of

[22:49] in a word game here. I don't want to

[22:52] moderate either. I think our our

[22:54] policies, the principles of our party

[22:57] are as viable today as they they have in

[22:59] the past. In all due respect, previous

[23:01] administration by letting spending get

[23:03] out and getting completely out of

[23:04] control, by betraying some of those

[23:07] principles of our party, cost us a

[23:09] couple elections. And maybe I didn't do

[23:11] a good enough job communicating

[23:13] with the American people. But, we have

[23:15] to improve our our outreach and our

[23:18] communication and that doesn't mean

[23:20] betrayal of principles. I think maybe it

[23:22] it means that adjusting to the 21st

[23:25] century in communications, in values, in

[23:28] in goals, in all the things that

[23:30] American people

[23:31] >> of your closest associates say it's more

[23:32] than a communications problem. Your

[23:34] former campaign manager Steve Schmidt

[23:35] came out and said unless the party has a

[23:38] more live and let live philosophy on

[23:41] issues like gay rights and on gay

[23:42] marriage, your own daughter's taken the

[23:44] same position, you're not going to be

[23:46] able to attract especially the younger

[23:47] generation.

[23:48] >> we have to be an inclusive party. That

[23:50] does not mean betrayal of fundamental

[23:52] principles. One of the fundamental

[23:55] principles of the Republican parties is

[23:57] to as much as possible to let people

[24:00] lead their own lives without government

[24:02] interference in their lives, to go as

[24:05] far as their hopes and dreams and

[24:06] aspirations will take them.

[24:08] We have to understand that maybe a

[24:10] candidate that is can win in one part of

[24:13] our country like the South may not be

[24:15] able to get elected in Pennsylvania. And

[24:18] local needs and local issues are

[24:21] important, but fundamental principles

[24:23] can be articulated. I believe America is

[24:25] a right of center nation. I believe the

[24:27] Republican party is a right of center

[24:29] party. We have to get in sync with the

[24:31] American people.

[24:33] >> of those who believe that women should

[24:35] have the right to an abortion? Of those

[24:36] who believe that gays and lesbians

[24:38] should have full civil rights?

[24:39] >> It means that we can have people in our

[24:41] party who do not have the same views on

[24:44] specific issues as long as we share

[24:47] common principles. Now, I don't agree

[24:50] with my daughter on specific issues. I

[24:52] still love my daughter and I respect her

[24:54] views and I think there's a place for

[24:56] her in the Republican party. I do. I

[24:59] think we've got to broaden our

[25:02] enlarge our tent and at the same time

[25:04] stick to our fundamental principles

[25:06] which are right of center. And I don't

[25:09] it's not that hard I don't think. Except

[25:11] that we've got to do a better job of

[25:12] saying, for example, Hispanic voters in

[25:15] my state and in the Southwest are

[25:17] pro-life, small business, low taxes,

[25:20] patriotic, etc. We should be able to get

[25:22] a lot more Hispanic participation in the

[25:24] Republican party. Well, Senator, thank

[25:27] you very much. We'll see if it happens

[25:28] in the future. You mentioned your

[25:29] daughter. Let me also wish a happy

[25:30] Mother's Day to your mom, Roberta, 97,

[25:33] still going strong. I hear she's going

[25:34] back to Europe again in the fall.

[25:36] Thanks, she is and she's incredibly

[25:38] active. It's great to be with you,

[25:40] George. Good to see you, Senator. The

[25:42] round table is next with George Will,

[25:43] Cokie Roberts, Sam Donaldson, and Robert

[25:45] Reich. And later, the Sunday Funnies.

[25:48] This week with George Stephanopoulos

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[27:04] I'm Sue and this is my Sitka.

[27:07] My family has been in this business

[27:09] [music] for 60 years and I'm proud to

[27:11] say we're still locally owned and

[27:12] independently operated. Living in the

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[27:31] >> [music]

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[28:34] We will be right back with the round

[28:35] table and the Sunday Funnies.

[28:38] This week [music] with George

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[28:41] Washington, D.C. We'll continue in a

[28:44] moment after this from [music] our ABC

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[28:50] They're back. The team that brought you

[28:52] the controversial Da Vinci Code and now

[28:54] the controversy continues with Angels

[28:56] and Demons. Tomorrow, its star Tom Hanks

[28:59] talks about the film's spectacular

[29:00] mystery and why they don't think

[29:02] Catholics should be upset only on Good

[29:03] Morning America tomorrow. The

[29:05] Indianapolis race is on. Here they come.

[29:08] Just look at those wild rides.

[29:10] UNBELIEVABLE! THE CHECKERED FLAG IS OUT.

[29:13] WHO'S GOING TO WIN?

[29:15] THE INDIANAPOLIS 500 [music] returns

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[30:24] your side.

[30:29] In the next 100 days, I will learn to go

[30:31] off the prompter and Joe Biden will

[30:34] learn to stay on the prompter.

[30:39] In the next 100 days, our

[30:41] bipartisan outreach will be so

[30:43] successful that even

[30:45] John Boehner will consider becoming a

[30:47] Democrat.

[30:48] After all, we have a lot of in common.

[30:51] He is a person of color.

[30:56] Although not a color that

[30:58] appears in the natural world.

[31:03] In the next 100 days, we will house

[31:04] train our dog, Bo.

[31:07] Because the last thing Tim Geithner

[31:09] needs is someone else treating him like

[31:11] a fire hydrant.

[31:14] President Obama cracked himself up last

[31:15] night [laughter] at the White House

[31:16] Correspondents Dinner. We're going to

[31:17] talk about that in a little bit, but let

[31:19] me bring in the round table right now.

[31:20] I've got George Will, as always, Robert

[31:23] Reich from the American Prospect in

[31:24] Berkeley,

[31:25] Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts. And we

[31:28] will get to the jokes later. I've

[31:30] everybody rate the president as joke

[31:31] teller-in-chief. But let's begin with

[31:34] the economy. The president was in a much

[31:35] more somber mood on Friday when we got

[31:37] these unemployment numbers. A little bit

[31:39] better than expected, but still pretty

[31:41] tough news. More than 500,000 jobs lost.

[31:43] Here was the president.

[31:45] Although we have a long way to go before

[31:47] we can put this recession behind us,

[31:50] the gears of our economic engine do

[31:52] appear to slowly

[31:54] uh to be slowly turning once again.

[31:58] Consumer spending and home sales are

[32:00] stabilizing.

[32:01] Construction spending is up for the

[32:03] first time in 6 months.

[32:05] Maybe the slip there, George, is

[32:07] revealing. There have been a lot of good

[32:09] signs lately in the economy, but no one

[32:12] knows how soon we're really going to be

[32:14] able to turn out of this. On the one

[32:16] hand, it's difficult to stop the

[32:18] American people from creating wealth.

[32:20] We're an industrious people with a

[32:22] continental market. On the other hand,

[32:24] the president submitted a budget this

[32:25] week that has 1.2 trillion dollars of

[32:28] new debt. Now, that's borrowing that has

[32:30] to come from somewhere. And a lot of

[32:32] it's going to come from domestic capital

[32:34] cuz we can't count on our allies to

[32:36] continue buying our debt as they have in

[32:38] the past.

[32:39] And the question is whether this will

[32:40] crowd out

[32:41] private capital investment, crowd it

[32:44] crowding it out lead to inflation, and

[32:46] nip the recovery such as it is in the

[32:48] bud. What's the answer? Well, the answer

[32:50] right now is that we don't have to worry

[32:52] about that because we have so much

[32:53] underutilized capacity. One out of 10

[32:55] Americans who are either unemployed or

[32:58] just give up have given up looking for

[33:00] work. That we do need to spend. The

[33:03] government is the spender of last

[33:04] resort. Now, eventually, in 2 years from

[33:06] now, 3 years from now, we are going to

[33:08] have to worry about, you know, possible

[33:10] inflation. And the Fed is probably going

[33:12] to have to pull in its horns. But right

[33:14] now is not a time the government ought

[33:16] to worry about those kinds of things.

[33:19] Some people say good news on the

[33:20] unemployment front because the the

[33:22] number was a little lower in the last

[33:24] four or five months. And it reminds me

[33:26] of somebody during the Great Depression

[33:28] where we had 25% of our people were out

[33:31] of work and someone says, "Yes, but it's

[33:32] leveled off, you know." I mean, can you

[33:34] imagine 5 years ago someone said we lost

[33:36] 500,000 jobs this month. Good news.

[33:38] >> [laughter]

[33:38] >> Look, I I I don't know much about it

[33:41] except I buy the idea that until the

[33:42] banks are stabilized, until they can

[33:44] lend again, until the 600 potential 600

[33:47] billion dollars of toxic mortgages can

[33:49] be dealt with, we're not going to be

[33:51] able to get back to full measure of

[33:54] spending, lending, and buying. And

[33:57] they've got a program right now that has

[33:59] something to do with public and

[34:01] private money combining to buy these

[34:03] mortgages, but it hasn't gotten off the

[34:04] ground. And a lot of economists think it

[34:06] won't work anyway. Well, the banks the

[34:08] banks there was good news on the banks

[34:10] front, too, though this past week. I

[34:11] mean, could again, what is good news?

[34:13] But

[34:14] you know, the they weren't in as bad a

[34:16] shape as was feared.

[34:18] So, I think where the administration has

[34:20] to be careful here is that they don't

[34:22] want people to think that it has turned

[34:24] around. Because first of all, it hasn't.

[34:26] But second, and the unemployment numbers

[34:28] are going to get worse before they get

[34:29] better.

[34:30] But secondly, they still have a lot of

[34:32] grand plans. And and if people think

[34:35] that the economy is righting itself,

[34:38] it's going to be very difficult for them

[34:40] to carry through on these grand plans.

[34:41] >> true, but they do believe and I was

[34:42] talking to some people on the economic

[34:45] team this week. They do they believe

[34:46] there's a chance that the recession will

[34:48] actually end in June. They will actually

[34:50] see growth in the third

[34:52] >> say that that he thought there'd be

[34:54] growth [clears throat]

[34:55] in this year.

[34:55] >> the problem that you get at it with the

[34:57] jobs and and Bob, check me on the

[34:59] numbers here. In order to start creating

[35:01] jobs again, bringing down the

[35:02] unemployment rate, you don't only need

[35:03] growth. You need 4 and 1/2% growth for

[35:07] the same period of time. Absolutely. And

[35:09] I think that when we when we talk about

[35:10] or anybody talks about hitting bottom,

[35:12] what we really have to understand is

[35:14] that the bottom is a kind of an

[35:18] undefined concept here. We don't know

[35:20] what a recovery is because we can't go

[35:22] back to the old economy, which was based

[35:24] on debt and Wall Street getting out of

[35:26] control. So, what is a recovery? What is

[35:29] a kind of the economy of the future?

[35:31] Nobody knows.

[35:32] >> I don't know what the answer is. First

[35:33] of all, Well, that's right. And the

[35:34] trouble is the American people in their

[35:36] native perversity have started to save

[35:38] money. What's the savings rate now? Four

[35:40] or five percent, yeah. Four or five

[35:41] percent. And since 70% of our economic

[35:43] activity in what we used to call normal

[35:45] times is personal consumption,

[35:48] is that compatible with threat?

[35:50] >> That's exactly the problem, George. That

[35:51] is exactly what a recovery is. Some guy

[35:53] says, I saw a quote in the paper saying,

[35:55] "I use this test. I want it, but do I

[35:57] need it?" And if I don't need it, I

[35:59] don't buy it. We have to get to the

[36:01] point where people buy what they want.

[36:03] >> But look at George puts his finger on

[36:05] what is the real dilemma here. And that

[36:07] is that what is rational for the

[36:09] individual family in terms of saving

[36:12] money is irrational from the standpoint

[36:14] of the economy as a whole. The banks

[36:16] that survived the stress test, for

[36:18] example,

[36:19] are they going to go back to lending

[36:21] like they did before they did the stress

[36:22] test? They can't possibly. But let me

[36:24] let me press you on that for a second

[36:26] because a lot of economists like Paul

[36:28] Krugman on this program, like you, like

[36:30] Joe Stiglitz, and Nouriel Roubini

[36:32] thought there was no way that this

[36:34] approach the administration was taking

[36:36] was the right course. You believe that

[36:38] we should go in more radical, temporary

[36:40] temporarily take over the banks. Can you

[36:43] now say though that the Geithner

[36:45] approach, the more tempered approach is

[36:46] right? Well, what we can say on the

[36:48] basis of very preliminary evidence is

[36:51] that the stress tests have fulfilled the

[36:53] goal that they set to fulfill, which was

[36:55] to reassure potential investors in a

[36:57] bank. Well, it's it's only public

[36:59] relations.

[37:00] It's the It's It's to It's to make sure

[37:03] and reassure potential bank investors

[37:05] that there are not worse problems hiding

[37:07] there. But there are worse problems.

[37:09] >> taking the banks over. That's the

[37:11] distinction. It's not the same thing as

[37:13] But was this approach better than going

[37:14] in Our worst problems is Fannie and

[37:17] Freddie, which are in terrible shape and

[37:21] going to need even more

[37:22] >> 19 million billion dollars

[37:23] >> more and more government infusion. So,

[37:25] that you know, at the same time that

[37:26] you're saying, "Oh, well, gee, the Bank

[37:28] of America only needs 34 billion

[37:30] dollars." 34 billion dollars and the

[37:32] stock went up a dollar 26. Then you

[37:34] still have these these now have been

[37:36] taken over by the government

[37:38] >> That's all That's all true. Right now,

[37:39] there's about a hundred

[37:40] >> That's all true. Except right now,

[37:41] there's about a hundred and 10 billion

[37:44] dollars in the TARP in the rescue fund.

[37:46] Some banks are going to be giving money

[37:48] back. JP Morgan's going to be giving

[37:49] money back. Goldman Sachs is going to be

[37:51] giving money back. That number's

[37:52] actually going to go up before it goes

[37:54] down. Maybe some of it has to go to

[37:55] Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Maybe some

[37:57] to GM. But you're going to have probably

[37:59] a pot of money of about a hundred

[38:01] billion dollars there, George Will, that

[38:03] may be available for either more

[38:05] bailouts or more government investment

[38:07] or spending. Just what you want, George.

[38:09] >> [laughter]

[38:10] >> Well,

[38:11] next on the list are municipalities,

[38:13] which is to say public employees unions,

[38:15] which have put municipalities Well,

[38:18] actually, the municipalities put

[38:19] themselves in trouble with improvident

[38:21] contracts with their public employees.

[38:23] And now we're going to bail them out.

[38:24] The common theme of all this is save the

[38:26] unions. This phony make-believe Chrysler

[38:29] bankruptcy is really a way of helping

[38:31] the UAW.

[38:32] >> it a make-believe bankruptcy? Because

[38:34] they have altered bankruptcy law and

[38:37] prearranged to give the UAW privileged

[38:40] status over what the bankruptcy law

[38:43] would have given to normal creditors. of

[38:45] public relations stress test. I don't

[38:47] think this test test was firm enough.

[38:49] But the other part of public relations,

[38:51] we're going to save 17 billion dollars,

[38:53] 1/2 of 1% of the 3.4 trillion dollar

[38:57] budget.

[38:58] But the very things that the president

[39:00] outlined as savings, people up there on

[39:02] Capitol Hill will not allow. I mean,

[39:04] that's not Meanwhile,

[39:06] he wants to do

[39:08] reform of the health care system. I've

[39:10] seen estimates ranging from several

[39:11] hundred billion to even a trillion

[39:13] dollars if we get it all done that we

[39:16] have to pay for because it's not in this

[39:18] budget. Well, which is why there's no

[39:20] place card in this budget. And you have

[39:21] to come up with new money if you're

[39:23] going to do it. I I think this is the

[39:25] big long-term question. I mean, we have

[39:27] a short-term issue. How do you get the

[39:28] economy back? And what does it mean to

[39:30] get the economy back? But the long-term

[39:32] is how do you pay for health care? And

[39:34] if the Congress continues to say, "No,

[39:37] we're not going to limit dividends or

[39:40] deductions for the rich. No, we're not

[39:42] going to even limit employer provided

[39:45] health care for the rich. No, we're not

[39:47] going to do this. Then there's no money.

[39:49] Just a moment. Well, here's a blue sky

[39:50] idea. There's if if you've got a hundred

[39:52] billion dollars in the bailout fund, why

[39:55] not use that as a down payment? Well,

[39:58] try to sell that to Congress. I look at

[40:01] I think that that hundred billion

[40:02] dollars or it's actually looks like it's

[40:04] going to be a hundred thirty-five

[40:05] billion.

[40:06] That's going to be eaten up. It's going

[40:07] to be eaten up by municipalities. It's

[40:09] going to be eaten up Like Fannie and

[40:10] Freddie. There's there many places where

[40:12] that's going to go.

[40:13] >> the truth is that when we look at these

[40:15] enormous deficits, I mean with the with

[40:18] the exception of this aberrant

[40:20] bailout situation, when you look at

[40:22] them, you you're talking about health

[40:24] care. It's it's Medicare, it's Medicaid

[40:27] for the states, and it's health care

[40:29] costs for businesses.

[40:30] >> Which is why the president emphasizes

[40:31] cost control all the time.

[40:32] >> the time. And and there are in both

[40:35] houses of Congress

[40:37] proposals to have commissions. Now,

[40:39] sometimes these work and sometimes they

[40:40] don't, but to really take a look at

[40:43] Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

[40:45] >> really being objected to by the Well,

[40:47] that's right. The two Democratic leaders

[40:50] oppose the idea of commissions, and the

[40:52] president is not getting behind cuz he

[40:53] wants to do health care. He's not

[40:55] getting behind this idea.

[40:56] >> behind the commission right now, but let

[40:57] me press it press that point because the

[40:59] the administration believes the stars

[41:01] are aligning for health care this

[41:03] summer. They think everything is coming

[41:05] together. What I can't figure out and I

[41:06] ask a lot of people about it, I still

[41:08] don't see the five, six, seven

[41:11] Republican votes minimum Well, exactly.

[41:13] One One of the things that one of the

[41:15] stars that is aligning is that is that

[41:19] the Senate has now invested a great deal

[41:21] of time and effort in this question. And

[41:23] as you well know, that takes on a life

[41:25] of its own. They don't want to have done

[41:27] this much work on something and then

[41:29] have it go to waste.

[41:30] >> policy centers like Chuck Grassley and

[41:32] Bob Bennett

[41:33] >> some and and there ways to get to them.

[41:36] I mean, it's a question of getting from

[41:37] here to there. If you do reconciliation,

[41:39] of course, you just have to have 50

[41:41] That's the That's the way you can get

[41:42] through on 50 votes. But

[41:43] realistically, that's going to be very

[41:45] very hard to do. And the administration,

[41:46] even though they're allowing it, says

[41:47] they don't want to go down that road.

[41:48] >> principle obstacle right now is the

[41:50] president because there is a bill in the

[41:53] Senate. It's the Wyden-Bennett bill.

[41:56] Wyden, liberal Democrat from Oregon.

[41:58] Bennett, Utah, the reddest state in the

[42:01] union, conservative Republican. They

[42:03] have a proposal that gives the left a

[42:05] mandate. Everyone is required to buy

[42:07] health insurance. It gives the right the

[42:09] fact that they will with their

[42:11] tax credits and tax subsidies and all

[42:13] the rest buy it from private providers.

[42:17] You could get 70 votes for that.

[42:19] >> Well, then it also includes the John

[42:20] McCain proposal to take away some of the

[42:22] tax deduction for employer provided

[42:23] health care.

[42:24] >> but I think you could get

[42:25] I think if you got it to the floor

[42:27] without the so-called public option,

[42:28] that is the government competing

[42:31] inherently unfairly against these

[42:32] private You could get 70 votes. But that

[42:35] is the that's the key to making this

[42:37] work according to many Democrats. You've

[42:39] got to

[42:40] have a public option.

[42:41] >> though, is that as a result of even

[42:43] having that on the table, the health

[42:45] insurers are saying, "Wait, wait,

[42:48] regulate me. Please regulate me. Stop me

[42:50] before I sin again." Let's talk about

[42:52] politics. Can the president, who has

[42:54] temporized now on a lot of his positions

[42:56] [laughter]

[42:57] Well, no. The president's temporized on

[42:59] a lot of his positions, but can he give

[43:01] up on a public

[43:02] option? Sure. Yeah.

[43:04] >> Because you traded away you traded away

[43:06] at the last second. I want to move on to

[43:07] something else, but I think Cokie was

[43:08] talking about the insurers. I think

[43:09] you're going to see this week insurance

[43:11] companies and other health care

[43:12] providers who were very much against the

[43:14] Clinton health care proposal come around

[43:15] and say they are ready to get to the

[43:16] table right now on this plan.

[43:18] >> On all of this as long as there isn't

[43:19] the public option. That's what they

[43:21] don't want to have out there. Well, the

[43:23] parallels to 1994 are in everybody's

[43:26] mind. I mean, a jobless recovery

[43:28] combined with the question whether you

[43:29] get health care. Remember what happened

[43:31] to Clinton. And you also, you know,

[43:33] every Republican here in town is

[43:35] dreaming of 1994. Could we do it again?

[43:38] Could we destroy health care

[43:41] with a jobless recovery and make the

[43:43] administration

[43:44] >> companies say they want to play. And And

[43:46] I don't And I don't know how you want to

[43:47] move on.

[43:48] One final number.

[43:50] More than 80% of Americans are very

[43:53] satisfied with their health care plan.

[43:55] They're not satisfied with the cost,

[43:57] however, and the fact that insurers get

[43:59] to make the decision about whether you

[44:01] get treated or not. And and doctors have

[44:03] reached the point where they have really

[44:05] had it with

[44:05] >> That is the debate right there. We're

[44:07] definitely going to come back to Isn't

[44:08] Isn't it amazing we are now talking

[44:09] about health care when we are no longer

[44:11] talking about the economy? I mean, we

[44:13] have already moved on to the next

[44:15] >> they

[44:16] they go together. Meanwhile, Elizabeth

[44:18] Edwards

[44:19] was out talking this week about her

[44:21] husband, his campaign, and the affair

[44:23] that could have doomed it had it been

[44:25] doing

[44:26] better. She went on Oprah this week to

[44:28] talk about it. I think it had a lot of

[44:29] people scratching their heads, but at

[44:31] one point

[44:32] we learned that Elizabeth Edwards found

[44:34] out about it two days after John Edwards

[44:36] announced he was running for president.

[44:37] Then remember, three months later, there

[44:40] was a recurrence of her cancer, and

[44:42] Oprah asked her, "Why didn't you get out

[44:43] then?"

[44:46] I'm surprised because

[44:48] I think that would have been your

[44:50] you know, that was a way out. That was a

[44:52] way out.

[44:53] >> It was. Considering the fact that you

[44:56] already knew that there had been an

[45:00] affair. I I knew that there'd been a

[45:02] night.

[45:03] Uh-huh. You know, that's all I knew.

[45:05] Now, now Cokie, I mean, I think

[45:06] Elizabeth Edwards is enormously

[45:08] sympathetic and appealing person, yet I

[45:10] think a lot of people are wondering

[45:11] What is this about? I'm very I'm very

[45:14] puzzled. I I'm an admirer of Elizabeth

[45:16] Edwards. I've felt all along that people

[45:18] had had their nerve to

[45:21] to criticize her for staying in the race

[45:25] when she knew that her cancer had

[45:26] recurred. All that. I think that

[45:29] you know, people get to make their own

[45:31] decisions about these things. But this

[45:32] one just puzzles me because because of

[45:34] her children. I don't understand how it

[45:38] how they get through this public

[45:40] exposure without being hurt.

[45:42] >> It's Elizabeth Edwards' revenge. And and

[45:44] some people would Some people say

[45:46] exactly right. She has it coming to be

[45:48] able to do this, but

[45:49] the time to have done it in some senses

[45:52] was when she was standing up by her

[45:54] husband, knowing about this, whatever

[45:55] part of it she knew about, saying he'd

[45:57] make a great president and and following

[45:59] along. Why was that?

[46:01] Why did she do that? Remember, George W.

[46:04] Bush had a press secretary, Scott

[46:05] McClellan,

[46:07] who stood in the press room and carried

[46:09] the water right down the line, then

[46:10] wrote a book denouncing everything that

[46:12] he had done, saying it was terrible.

[46:14] There's something swarmy about that.

[46:16] Well, I I you know, I uh

[46:19] I I keep asking myself, what is the

[46:21] great

[46:22] public tragedy here? And the answer I

[46:24] come up with is the loss despite his,

[46:28] you know, personal indiscretions, of a

[46:31] man who was almost the single voice in

[46:34] the campaigns for the poor, an advocate

[46:37] for the poor, somebody who really was

[46:39] concerned about it. Uh

[46:41] I'm sorry that his

[46:43] public persona is over. His public

[46:45] office is over.

[46:47] >> It would have been if he had won. I

[46:48] mean, suppose the man had and you can

[46:51] reconfigure Iowa in some ways and see

[46:53] takes off and anything can happen in

[46:54] these Suppose he got the Democratic

[46:56] >> that wasn't going to happen. I've I've

[46:57] actually talked to a lot of former

[46:58] Edwards staffers about this, and it's

[47:00] amazing to me. I mean, they

[47:02] they had their doubts. They believed up

[47:04] until December that this was not true.

[47:06] By December and January, several people

[47:08] in his circle started to think, you know

[47:11] what, this is probably true. This may be

[47:13] the the [clears throat] affair

[47:15] may be true, and they actually had

[47:17] something of a doomsday strategy.

[47:19] Several of them had gotten together and

[47:21] basically said, "If it looks like he's

[47:24] going to win, we're going to sabotage

[47:25] the campaign. Oh my We're going to blow

[47:27] it up. Why would they do that? Why not

[47:30] just get out of the campaign? Or why not

[47:32] go public and and say The answer The

[47:34] answer they give is that in December and

[47:36] January, he probably wasn't going to

[47:38] win. Why why bring everybody through?

[47:41] But then if he were, they're saying

[47:42] they're Democrats first, and they would

[47:44] have found a way to get the information

[47:45] out so that he was not the nominee.

[47:47] >> But if they would have sabotaged a

[47:49] campaign that looked like it might be

[47:50] successful

[47:51] for whatever reason, the political

[47:53] reason, he he would not be able to do

[47:55] that.

[47:55] >> would be that it wasn't going to be

[47:56] successful. Well, then why not get out

[47:58] early? I I I agree with Cokie.

[48:00] There There is some moral imperative

[48:02] here that bothers me. It also could have

[48:03] had an impact on the eventual nominee.

[48:06] Now, I I don't buy into this theory, but

[48:08] there is a theory that if John Edwards

[48:11] had not been in there, that it might

[48:13] have been to the benefit of Hillary

[48:14] Clinton. Now, I you know, I I think

[48:16] Well, what do you think about

[48:17] >> Barack Obama's year, but uh Yes, but in

[48:20] Iowa, two-thirds of white people voted

[48:23] for someone other than Barack Obama

[48:24] because they split the vote, Edwards and

[48:26] and and

[48:27] Clinton.

[48:28] >> So, I mean, so so if you say his

[48:30] staffers were going to sabotage him

[48:32] eventually, they I [clears throat] mean,

[48:34] they really should have done it up front

[48:36] then. And you but the arrogance of all

[48:38] of this is just so overwhelming to me. I

[48:40] mean, to get into a presidential

[48:41] campaign while performing in such a

[48:44] manner is just, you know, I deserve it.

[48:46] It's all about me. And it's just

[48:49] And did he really think that he could

[48:50] make it all the way through? We're just

[48:51] about at time here. Let's take one more

[48:53] look at President Obama last night

[48:55] talking about Hillary in his stand-up

[48:57] act.

[49:00] We had been rivals during the campaign,

[49:03] but these days we could not be closer.

[49:06] In fact, the second she got back from

[49:08] Mexico, she pulled me into a hug and

[49:10] gave me a big kiss.

[49:13] Told me I better get down there myself.

[49:16] >> [laughter]

[49:17] >> Now, not all presidents clear the bar in

[49:19] their first outing at the White House

[49:20] Correspondents Dinner. I think Obama

[49:21] probably did last night. Absolutely. I

[49:23] mean, he has good writers, he has good

[49:25] delivery. What more do you need? And

[49:26] what I liked about it was all the

[49:28] zingers were

[49:30] some that in the Gridiron tradition,

[49:32] they singed but didn't burn. They

[49:34] weren't mean.

[49:35] If what I saw of the

[49:37] the public prints of the

[49:39] master mistress of ceremony, I can't say

[49:40] the same thing. I think Rush Limbaugh

[49:42] should be condemned for whatever meaning

[49:45] he had when he said he wanted the

[49:47] president to fail, and you can jab at

[49:49] him for that, but she apparently crossed

[49:51] the line as far as I think

[49:52] >> great strengths of this president. I

[49:53] don't think he has a mean bone in his

[49:55] body. I think he is the center of

[49:58] serenity with regard to the hurricanes

[50:00] that are going around, the economy and

[50:01] everything else, and I think he is a

[50:03] genuinely genuinely nice person.

[50:05] Something this

[50:07] this town doesn't quite know what

[50:08] >> better develop a toughness. You don't

[50:10] have to call it mean, develop toughness,

[50:12] yeah.

[50:12] >> been a funny person, and

[50:14] and so this this was this was a test to

[50:17] see if he could be funny.

[50:18] >> You guys can continue talking about this

[50:19] in the green room. And for political

[50:21] updates all week long, follow me on

[50:23] Facebook [music] and Twitter. Coming up

[50:24] here, the rest of the Sunday funnies.

[50:27] This week with George Stephanopoulos,

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[56:41] DirectBuy way. Stop paying retail and

[56:43] become [music] part of DirectBuy, the

[56:45] private members-only showroom and design

[56:47] center. Don't wait another minute. Pick

[56:49] up the phone and call now.

[56:53] Emily, fill in the blank. In this

[56:54] economy, it's everybody's business to

[56:57] what? Okay.

[56:59] It's everybody's business to do even

[57:02] more with less. Less is the new more,

[57:04] right? Of course.

[57:07] The chase is on

[57:09] >> Open the doors. Police. to target and

[57:11] hunt [music] down career criminals

[57:12] hiding in the suburbs.

[57:13] >> Police.

[57:15] Monday, ride-along, unprecedented access

[57:18] on the crackdown that's paying off big,

[57:20] only on World News with Charles Gibson.

[57:25] We've got a bit of a breeze here in

[57:26] Washington today, and here are the

[57:27] Sunday funnies.

[57:29] The crown at the top of the Statue of

[57:30] Liberty will reopen on the 4th of July

[57:32] for the first time since 9/11. THAT'S

[57:35] COOL.

[57:36] >> [applause]

[57:40] >> VISITORS WILL NOW BE ABLE TO TOUCH AIR

[57:42] FORCE ONE as it flies right past them.

[57:45] Here's a public service announcement now

[57:47] from Joe Biden. Remember that the sun's

[57:49] rays can cause painful sunburn and

[57:52] long-term skin damage. To be safe,

[57:54] between now and October, [music] do not

[57:56] leave your home. A message from Joe

[57:58] Biden. Time to panic.

[58:01] The state of Maine today LEGALIZED GAY

[58:04] MARRIAGE.

[58:06] MAINE BECAME COMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA

[58:08] after years of touching Canada.

[58:10] >> [laughter]

[58:11] >> Interesting presidential lunches is

[58:12] nothing new.

[58:14] I think we all remember CBS News'

[58:16] landmark 1973 report,

[58:18] Nixon has a burrito. I'm standing

[58:21] outside Washington, D.C.'s Ten

[58:23] Mexican Restaurant. Inside, President

[58:26] Nixon and Secretary of State Kissinger

[58:28] are enjoying some traditional Mexican

[58:30] entrees.

[58:32] And that is our show for today. Thanks

[58:34] for sharing part of your mother's day

[58:35] with us. We'll see you next week.

[58:44] >> [music]

[58:51] >> Lakers-Rockets, game four, today on ABC.

[58:56] Now, hot off the grill with Izzy, Chef

[58:58] Marco.

[58:58] >> With times as tough as they are, it's

[59:00] nice to find things as tender as my

[59:02] marinated tri-tip beef, specially

[59:04] seasoned for Latin American flavor, and

[59:06] so tender it cuts like butter. Or these

[59:09] tender Hawaiian pork kabobs with

[59:10] pineapple, onions, peppers, and

[59:12] slow-smoked pork specially glazed and

[59:15] grilled to perfection. It's one hula of

[59:17] a deal, believe me. Try-tip beef and

[59:19] pork kabobs, only at Izzy's, where we're

[59:22] now serving more than you can shake a

[59:23] stick at.

[59:24] >> Izzy's.

[59:26] Buying a car should never be a hassle.

[59:29] That is why I created our no bull

[59:32] policy.

[59:33] That means that there is only one

[59:34] professional from drive-up to delivery.

[59:37] Here, there are no confusing markups.