Nightline (ABC) - 1999-07-20

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:03] July 20th, 1999.

[0:06] >> I believe that this nation should commit

[0:08] itself to achieving the goal before this

[0:12] decade is out of landing a man on the

[0:15] moon and returning him safely to the

[0:17] earth.

[0:18] >> Uh,

[0:20] base here. The Eagle has landed.

[0:22] >> I was 14 years old. It was my birthday.

[0:25] >> I wasn't born yet.

[0:26] >> I stayed up all night. That's one small

[0:29] step for man.

[0:30] >> I thought it was fabulous.

[0:32] >> We were very excited.

[0:33] >> It's still spectacular.

[0:35] >> One giant leap for mankind. For every

[0:38] American, this has to be the proudest

[0:40] day of our lives.

[0:42] >> Tonight, one giant leap 30 years later.

[0:50] From ABC News,

[0:55] this is Night Line

[0:58] reporting from Washington. Ted CP.

[1:03] There are some events, some discoveries

[1:05] or achievements that are more than

[1:07] simply historic. D-Day was historic. The

[1:10] Battle of Hastings was historic, as was

[1:12] the development of penicellin and the

[1:14] invention of the combustion engine. Huge

[1:17] events that changed the shapes of our

[1:18] lives. But man's first landing on the

[1:21] moon was the stuff of legend. That

[1:24] doesn't mean it was more important. In

[1:26] some respects, it is still difficult for

[1:28] some of us to understand what was gained

[1:30] by it. And yet, slipping the bonds of

[1:32] Earth's gravitational pull, putting a

[1:35] spacecraft into orbit around the moon

[1:37] and then sending a separate vehicle with

[1:39] two men on board to the moon's surface

[1:42] itself. That was incredible. It was also

[1:45] far more dangerous than most of us

[1:47] suspected at the time. Landing on the

[1:49] moon was one thing. That seemed like the

[1:51] ultimate achievement. And we marveled to

[1:53] see first Neil Armstrong and then Buzz

[1:55] Aldrin bouncing awkwardly around in

[1:58] those cumbersome space suits. But the

[2:00] really extraordinary accomplishment was

[2:03] getting them both off the moon again.

[2:05] What most of us never realized was that

[2:07] there was no backup plan. If the lunar

[2:10] module hadn't made it back up to the

[2:12] command ship Colombia, that would have

[2:14] been it. Armstrong and Uldren would have

[2:17] died there. I'll be talking to Buzz

[2:19] Aldrin in a few minutes, but it occurred

[2:21] to us that many of you weren't even

[2:23] alive 30 years ago today. There's no way

[2:26] to recapture the heartstoppping

[2:28] excitement of that day, but you sure do

[2:31] want to see the pictures.

[2:34] >> 10 9 Ignition sequence starts. 6 5 4 3 2

[2:43] 1 zero. All engine running. Liftoff. We

[2:48] have a liftoff. 32 minutes past the

[2:50] hour. Liftoff on Apollo 11.

[2:56] >> Tower cleared.

[2:58] >> We got a roll program.

[3:00] >> Neil Armstrong reporting the roll and

[3:01] pitch program which puts Apollo 11 on a

[3:03] proper heading. The important

[3:06] uh achievement of of Apollo was a

[3:10] demonstration that humanity is not

[3:12] forever chained to this planet and our

[3:15] our visions go rather further than that

[3:17] and our opportunities are unlimited.

[3:20] >> 11 Houston could you describe what

[3:22] you're uh looking at over

[3:25] you're seeing Earth as uh we see it uh

[3:30] out our left hand window. My gut feeling

[3:33] was that we had a uh a 90% chance of or

[3:38] better of getting back safely and a 50%

[3:42] chance of making a successful landing.

[3:45] >> 30 ft down 2 and 1/2 picking up some

[3:47] dust. 30 ft. 2 and 1/2 down. Great

[3:50] shadow.

[3:52] Four forward. Four forward. Drifting to

[3:55] the right a little. Contact right.

[4:00] Okay. Engine stopped. Aa at a detent

[4:04] control both auto descent. Engine

[4:05] command override off. Engine arm off.

[4:09] 413 is in.

[4:12] >> Listen. Uh, Tranguality base here. The

[4:15] Eagle has landed.

[4:17] >> Some of you are old enough to have

[4:20] experienced that first lunar landing.

[4:23] And I dare say in the 30 years since

[4:26] that time,

[4:28] >> you have never ever had the same feeling

[4:32] >> that you had at that moment.

[4:34] >> I'm at the foot of the ladder surface

[4:37] appears to be uh very very fine grained

[4:42] as you get close to it. It's almost like

[4:44] a powder.

[4:45] >> I realized I had going to have to say

[4:47] something. Uh but it there wasn't

[4:50] anything very complicated when you just

[4:52] think about stepping off why it seemed

[4:54] to follow.

[4:55] >> That's one small step for man,

[5:00] one leap for mankind.

[5:04] >> I was in Hawaii. I was 14 years old. It

[5:07] was my birthday.

[5:08] >> Sitting in front of the TV in the living

[5:09] room with my family.

[5:10] >> I was three or so. And they woke me up

[5:13] and I remember it just a little tiny

[5:15] bit. I was in Colombia, South America,

[5:18] and I was uh 5 years old. So, I have no

[5:21] idea of the actual event happening.

[5:24] >> There was certainly a a coup for the

[5:27] United States to be able to reach the

[5:28] moon before our uh adversaries did.

[5:31] >> Yes, indeed. They've got the flag up

[5:33] now, and you can see the stars and

[5:34] stripes from the flag up now.

[5:39] >> Beautiful. Just beautiful. Of

[5:43] course, it was the result of competition

[5:45] between two systems, the socialist and

[5:48] the capitalist systems. But there was no

[5:51] damage to us because really we were the

[5:54] first in space. We opened up space. We

[5:58] were there first. Of course, we will

[6:00] always be proud of the fact that we were

[6:01] first really, but we never pulled off a

[6:04] moon landing, unfortunately. And it was

[6:06] hard for us to understand how it

[6:07] happened that we were always ahead in

[6:09] space exploration. that couldn't land on

[6:11] the moon. I was born in 1978, so it was

[6:14] before my time. But I'm still sorry that

[6:17] it wasn't a Russian cosminote who landed

[6:19] on the moon.

[6:21] It takes about two or three to

[6:25] make sure that you've got your feet

[6:27] underneath you.

[6:30] >> I think it is the first step by man to

[6:33] conquer the universe. It is a great leap

[6:35] for mankind, no matter who set foot on

[6:38] the moon. I didn't know about it 30

[6:40] years ago.

[6:41] >> The first I knew about it was in 1980 or

[6:44] so. I don't have time to think about it.

[6:47] >> We do have

[6:49] 11 Houston. How did it go? Over to open

[6:51] up the doors, Charlie. Roger. We got you

[6:54] coming home.

[6:56] >> I wasn't even born yet. My mom was only

[6:58] about 12 years old.

[6:59] >> I wasn't even thought of.

[7:01] >> Some years ago, they used to say, "We're

[7:02] reading about you in science class." And

[7:04] now then it was we reading about you in

[7:06] history class. So now I think it's early

[7:08] American history

[7:10] >> with all these other news things

[7:12] happening now it's like ancient history

[7:16] >> and aboard the uh deck of the Hornet

[7:20] the the entire crew in the pre-dawn

[7:23] darkness on the deck straining to see

[7:25] the fireball

[7:26] >> just for an instant just for a brief

[7:28] instant

[7:30] then it went behind the glove cover. No,

[7:32] now you can still see it. You can see

[7:33] the red ball.

[7:36] That's the command module.

[7:38] >> When the capsule hit the Earth's

[7:39] atmosphere, it was one big fireball and

[7:41] it shot completely across the sky. And I

[7:43] I said to myself, I'm looking up at

[7:45] this. I'm saying, "Boy, we blew this."

[7:47] Cuz it look completely like it was just

[7:48] going to the other side of the Earth.

[7:53] >> For me personally, the most satisfying

[7:56] event was the final descent. Yeah.

[7:58] >> To do this and be a part of history

[8:01] makes me one of the proudest people ever

[8:02] to live and uh I have a heritage for my

[8:06] grandchildren and uh I feel very very

[8:09] good about that.

[8:10] >> Was the scene as the uh first astronaut

[8:12] was slung up.

[8:13] >> What made it nice is we were able to

[8:15] touch the capsule

[8:16] >> and it was like touching history.

[8:20] something that you can say to your kids

[8:21] that I've I touched the capsule, you

[8:24] know, the first man on the moon. And

[8:26] it's just, you know, just exciting to

[8:29] know that we were able to do that

[8:30] because we weren't allowed to touch it,

[8:32] but we did anyway.

[8:35] And to this day, I'm happy we did. So,

[8:37] it was it was good.

[8:40] In a moment, the second man in history

[8:42] to set foot on the moon and the writer

[8:44] whose book, A Man on the Moon, inspired

[8:47] Tom Hanks series, From the Earth to the

[8:50] Moon.

[8:54] >> This is ABC News Night Line, brought to

[8:57] you by the New York Times.

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[11:19] It was precisely at this hour, 30 years

[11:22] ago tonight, that Buzz Aldrin became the

[11:25] second man in history to step onto the

[11:27] lunar surface. And he joins us here in

[11:29] our Washington bureau, as does Andrew

[11:32] Chikin, who's written about space

[11:34] exploration and astronomy for nearly 20

[11:36] years, including an essay in the new

[11:38] book Full Moon, a collection of NASA

[11:41] lunar photos. And I hope you'll forgive

[11:44] me, Andrew, if I spend the first couple

[11:46] of minutes talking to Buzz Aldrin. This

[11:48] is a great thrill uh especially to have

[11:50] you here tonight. And I wonder as you

[11:53] were looking at some of that video.

[11:57] Are you just watching historic video now

[11:59] or does it bring it back for you?

[12:02] >> Well, I've seen it many, many times.

[12:04] Each time is a little bit different when

[12:06] I uh

[12:07] >> notice something, concentrate on

[12:09] something. But uh it's nice to see and

[12:12] it's nice to realize on these

[12:14] anniversaries that we were so fortunate

[12:17] to have been a part of that wonderful

[12:19] experience.

[12:20] >> As you talk about fortunate and you talk

[12:22] about luck, we have been reading a great

[12:25] deal and hearing a great deal these last

[12:27] couple of weeks about that memorandum

[12:29] that Bill Sapphire drafted. You know

[12:31] what I'm talking about?

[12:32] >> Yes, I do. the memorandum for the

[12:36] widows, your wife, Neil Armstrong's

[12:39] wife, in the event that getting back to

[12:43] the command ship didn't work.

[12:46] Talk about that for a moment. I mean,

[12:48] talk about it from the vantage point of

[12:49] right now when you I mean, you had had

[12:51] you ever seen that memo before or heard

[12:53] of it?

[12:53] >> I I don't think I had, but but I uh we

[12:57] may have had some hints that something

[12:58] like that did exist. Uh but I'm not

[13:01] surprised that something like that comes

[13:03] out uh as we approach uh an anniversary

[13:06] and somebody wants to do some research.

[13:09] Uh I am surprised that we pay so much

[13:10] attention to it because any large

[13:13] organization that has a leader and a and

[13:17] an appropriate staff is going to have a

[13:19] staff that's going to prepare that

[13:20] leader for whatever eventualities may

[13:23] come about whether successful or or

[13:25] failures. So the fact that someone

[13:29] whether it was Frank or anyone else uh

[13:32] had someone

[13:35] uh

[13:38] sort of brought about to pick someone

[13:40] like like uh Bill Sapphire to do that,

[13:42] >> right?

[13:43] >> Uh it doesn't surprise me at all. And I

[13:45] think his words were very appropriate.

[13:47] >> It's just that we didn't care that much

[13:48] about that particular issue.

[13:51] >> Well, that's that's what I wanted to get

[13:52] to about. I I agree with you. the

[13:54] memorandum kind of obvious that that

[13:56] would be written of certain historical

[13:58] interest right now. But I think what it

[14:01] brought to an awful lot of us,

[14:04] >> you clearly knew what the risks were.

[14:06] I'm not sure that the rest of us did.

[14:09] And so as you went as you landed on the

[14:12] moon when you and Neil Armstrong then

[14:15] were sort of coorting around on the moon

[14:17] and when you got back into into your

[14:19] lunar module,

[14:21] did you have any discussion at all about

[14:24] I hope this works. I know it's going to

[14:26] work. Uh or or or was it just un

[14:29] >> We did. I'm sure it would have been in a

[14:31] joking fashion. If you have a concern

[14:33] about whether it's going to work, uh

[14:35] it's too late to think about it then.

[14:37] You should have thought about it months

[14:39] before and asked as ask some questions

[14:41] of people.

[14:42] >> Did you?

[14:43] >> No.

[14:45] There was no way that anyone in the crew

[14:47] could assure themselves that everything

[14:49] everything was going to work properly.

[14:51] We had to rely on people who were

[14:53] wellqualified to put all of that

[14:55] together. You have to have that faith

[14:57] that these people are going to do the

[15:00] best job that they can just like they

[15:02] had the faith that we were going to do

[15:03] the best job that we possibly could. And

[15:06] that's why we I think we're so

[15:09] spring-loaded to the be alert position.

[15:12] Everybody given that kind of an

[15:14] opportunity wants to look good. We want

[15:16] to look good, too.

[15:18] >> Andrew, talk for a moment about what the

[15:20] what the general awareness within NASA

[15:22] was of the dangers at that time.

[15:25] >> You know, you have a whole sort of

[15:27] series of concentric circles. You know,

[15:29] that Buzz and Neil were at the center

[15:31] because they were the ones who were

[15:32] going to risk their lives if that engine

[15:34] didn't light. they were going to be

[15:36] stranded on the moon with no hope of

[15:37] rescue. Then you have the people who

[15:39] sort of designed the engine and know the

[15:41] intricate workings of it. Then you have

[15:43] the managers in NASA up in Washington

[15:46] who many a time during Apollo were

[15:49] sitting in the back row of mission

[15:51] control, they used to call it the

[15:52] eagle's nest, ringing their hands or

[15:55] maybe not visibly or or you know

[15:58] clenching their jaws at the risks that

[16:00] their agency was taking for for the good

[16:03] of of the national prestige. When I and

[16:07] forgive me Buzz if I paraphrase your own

[16:09] thoughts for you, but when I interviewed

[16:11] Buzz, I asked him that question. I said,

[16:14] "How do you deal with the fact that you

[16:17] are trusting your lies to that one

[16:19] engine? Do you think about what happens

[16:21] if you don't get off the moon?" And he

[16:23] said, "Why would I why would I think

[16:26] about that? Why would I stack the deck

[16:29] against success when so much had been

[16:32] done to ass ensure success? In other

[16:36] words, yes, they took risks, but they

[16:39] were well legislated risks. They were

[16:42] risks that had been thought out over a

[16:44] span of years. The engine that that

[16:48] particular engine out of many engines in

[16:50] Apollo had been tested again and again

[16:52] and again, designed so that it was as

[16:54] simple as possible. Now, having said

[16:56] that, I have to tell you that when I

[16:58] interviewed Neil,

[17:00] I said, I've heard that you tried to get

[17:05] a system built into the engine so that

[17:07] you could manually actuate the valves

[17:10] because, you know, it didn't have an

[17:11] ignition system. As long as the fuels

[17:13] got into the chamber, it would fire.

[17:15] >> But that they couldn't do it for you.

[17:16] And he said, "Yeah, I I did have some

[17:19] concern about the engine, and I did

[17:21] propose a manual system, and they

[17:23] couldn't come up with it in time." So

[17:24] you see that it's not monolithic. There

[17:27] are different feelings about it.

[17:28] >> We've got to take a short break. When we

[17:30] come back though, I want to talk to both

[17:31] of you about something that that Russian

[17:34] lady mentioned in Red Square a few

[17:36] moments ago. The nature of competition

[17:39] and how that drove the project. Back

[17:41] with our guests in a moment.

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[20:33] >> And we're back once again with Apollo 11

[20:35] astronaut Buzz Aldrin and author Andrew

[20:38] Shaken. um buzz the competition with the

[20:42] Soviet Union at that time,

[20:45] >> how important was that? How much of a

[20:47] driving force was that?

[20:49] >> I think it drove the whole program. It's

[20:51] what really got it initiated starting

[20:53] with Sputnik and uh then their launches

[20:56] after that.

[20:57] >> That scared the hell out of us, didn't

[20:58] it? I mean, when they when they launched

[21:00] Sputnik,

[21:02] >> it appeared to have done that. You know,

[21:04] I have to admit I was a fighter pilot at

[21:06] the time and I was in Europe and we had

[21:08] some other concerns uh about that time

[21:11] and it frankly did not make a big

[21:13] impression on me. That shows how close

[21:16] uh I was not really to the space

[21:19] program.

[21:19] >> Yeah. But I think it's I think it scared

[21:21] >> it it certainly did

[21:22] >> scared the devil out of out of the

[21:24] administration at the time.

[21:26] >> And there was competition leading right

[21:28] on up to the commitment to go to the

[21:30] moon. Was it was it ever a factor of so

[21:34] much competition that perhaps they were

[21:37] pushing it a little too hard and too

[21:38] fast, cutting corners?

[21:41] >> I don't think so.

[21:43] >> You're hesitating. I find that

[21:45] interesting.

[21:46] >> Well, we we moved at the most rapid pace

[21:49] we could. When we had the uh the fire,

[21:52] uh we recovered from that relatively

[21:55] quickly in comparison to the recovery

[21:58] from the Challenger accident. uh a

[22:01] number of missions were eliminated that

[22:03] were block one missions that were going

[22:04] to be that same spacecraft that was

[22:06] involved in the fire. Uh we jumped

[22:08] immediately to to block two and we just

[22:10] did just the bare minimum number of

[22:12] missions needed to qualify the command

[22:15] module and the lunar module to land. And

[22:18] we we had about two missions to spare.

[22:21] if if we'd flown in uh July and didn't

[22:24] make it, we had two more opportunities

[22:26] to try and make it to the moon before

[22:28] the end of ' 69.

[22:29] >> Let me broaden the the discussion out a

[22:31] little bit, Andrew, and and and start

[22:33] with you.

[22:35] What was gained by landing on the moon

[22:38] beyond enormous prestige, great pride, a

[22:41] feeling that something mankind has

[22:43] always wanted to do has finally been

[22:45] accomplished. What was achieved?

[22:47] >> Right. Well, on the most basic level, we

[22:50] became a space space fairing species. We

[22:54] showed that we, you know, as as Neil

[22:56] Armstrong said in that clip, we were no

[22:58] longer confined to just one planet. And

[23:01] that in itself is not just the

[23:02] achievement of one nation. It's an

[23:04] evolutionary milestone for the entire

[23:06] human species. Uh, in a more specific

[23:10] sense, we learned so much about the moon

[23:14] and about the solar system. The moon is

[23:16] our Rosetta stone for understanding how

[23:18] the earth and the solar system came to

[23:20] be. We got enormous technological uh

[23:24] advantage out of it. Micro electronics

[23:26] and computers, those were all spurred by

[23:28] Apollo. And I think finally we got a

[23:32] spiritual lift out of going to the moon.

[23:35] We had a mountaintop experience for the

[23:37] entire human race when we looked back. I

[23:40] say we because all of us saw the

[23:42] pictures and heard the voices coming to

[23:44] us. Well, here's the man who actually

[23:46] experienced the event. What What would

[23:48] your answer to the same question?

[23:49] >> A bit more to it than that. Uh we have

[23:53] the end of the Cold War. Now, in 1991,

[23:56] no one really expected that we're going

[23:59] to see the turn of the century uh with

[24:01] the Soviet Union in the in the position

[24:04] that they're in now. And I think it's

[24:05] because we made that commitment and we

[24:07] carried that through and it made a

[24:10] distinct impression on the Soviets,

[24:13] maybe more so than anyone else, that we

[24:14] would do that. And then later on when we

[24:18] might make another commitment to build a

[24:21] defense against the threatening aspect

[24:24] of intercontinental missiles,

[24:25] >> you're talking about the whole the whole

[24:26] Star Wars program. I'm I'm talking about

[24:29] uh the potential of making another

[24:31] commitment of advancing our abilities in

[24:34] that direction, whatever you want to

[24:36] call it. They knew, Gorbachov knew that

[24:38] they couldn't win that race either, and

[24:40] he had to change direction. Now, a lot

[24:42] of people aren't going to agree with

[24:43] that, but the fact of the matter is we

[24:46] don't have that cold war going on now.

[24:48] And I think that history eventually is

[24:50] going to say it's because we had the

[24:53] guts to make that kind of a commitment.

[24:55] And despite what was going on in

[24:56] Southeast Asia and despite the fire, we

[24:59] carried through with that commitment.

[25:01] >> I need to ask you one more quick

[25:03] question. Try and give me a a concise

[25:05] answer. Have we lived up to the promise

[25:07] of that day 30 years ago?

[25:09] >> Well, we talked about competition a

[25:11] little bit ago. When you compete, you do

[25:13] something to get there in a hurry. And

[25:15] uh without really realizing it, we built

[25:18] in the gradual demise of the Apollo

[25:20] program by not building into it a

[25:22] gradual buildup into sustainability. We

[25:25] threw everything away that was part of

[25:26] that rocket. And now we're still trying

[25:28] to bring the cost down of rocket

[25:30] launches. And the only way you're going

[25:32] to do that is through reusability. But

[25:34] that's a barrier now because we've got

[25:36] expendable rockets and nobody wants to

[25:39] put those rockets out of business by

[25:41] having something that you don't have to

[25:42] keep building one after another.

[25:44] >> Andrew, I know you're twitching to get

[25:46] in, but I'm afraid we're out of time.

[25:48] And so, Andrew Ch and Buzz Aldrin,

[25:50] again, congratulations to you. It's a

[25:52] great thrill to have you here this

[25:54] evening and thank you both very much.

[25:55] >> Thank you, J.

[25:56] >> Another piece of space history back in

[25:58] the news when we come back.

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[27:37] >> Only one candidate for mayor is already

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[28:30] >> 1999 for the surfing turf

[28:35] with the 13.

[28:40] Eight years before Armstrong and Uldren

[28:42] set foot on the moon, astronaut Gus

[28:45] Gryom became the second American in

[28:47] space. But after he splashed down, the

[28:49] hatchlau, water rushed in and Gryom swam

[28:52] away to safety. But the capsule was too

[28:54] heavy for the helicopter to lift and it

[28:57] sank to the bottom of the ocean 3 mi

[28:59] down. It sat there for 38 years until

[29:02] early this morning when a Discovery

[29:04] Channel mission retrieved the Liberty

[29:07] Bell 7 capsule. Among the items found

[29:09] inside, seven Mercury dimes Gus Gryom

[29:12] had carried into space. And that's our

[29:16] report for tonight. I'm Ted Cppel in

[29:18] Washington. For all of us here at ABC

[29:20] News, good night.

[29:27] Night Line has been a presentation of

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[29:35] now a part of the Go Network. You know,

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[29:58] >> Watch handhold on News 2 at 5 and 6.

[30:04] Ladies and gentlemen, the star of

[30:06] politically incorrect, Bill Mars.

[30:14] Bill's guest tonight and your winner,

[30:18] Jeffrey Ross, and Crowley.

[30:25] Okay. Hey, hey, they're happy today. I

[30:29] know why you're happy. You know that our

[30:31] state