The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-08-27 (partial)

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:05] Good evening. I'm Jim Lair in

[0:07] Washington.

[0:08] >> And I'm Robert McNeel in New York. After

[0:10] the news summary this Thursday, we

[0:12] examine two aspects of the Iran Contra

[0:14] investigation. Has the Clare George

[0:16] trial compromise the CIA? And should the

[0:19] special prosecutor continue to pursue

[0:21] high officials from the Reagan

[0:23] administration? Also tonight, reports

[0:25] from Florida and Louisiana on the

[0:27] distress after Hurricane Andrew.

[0:30] Funding for the McNeel NewsHour has been

[0:32] provided by PepsiCo

[0:45] Pepsico.

[0:49] Part of helping the world live and

[0:50] communicate better is keeping it well

[0:52] informed. That's why funding for the

[0:54] NewsHour is also provided by AT&T

[0:58] and by the Corporation for Public

[0:59] Broadcasting and viewers like you.

[1:04] Hurricane Andrews victims tried to cope

[1:06] without many of life's basic necessities

[1:08] again today. Relief efforts were

[1:10] strained to the breaking point as

[1:11] thousands lined up for food and water

[1:13] across South Florida. Officials now

[1:16] estimate some 200,000 50,000 people were

[1:19] left homeless after Andrew struck

[1:21] Monday. Property damage has been put

[1:24] between 15 to 20 billion dollars in Dade

[1:26] County alone. Distribution efforts

[1:29] continued to be hampered by blocked

[1:30] roads and down power lines. A small

[1:33] plane carrying relief aid crashed into a

[1:35] house in Myiramar just north of Miami.

[1:37] Two people aboard the plane were killed.

[1:39] A third was injured. Florida Governor

[1:41] Lton Childs said relief efforts were

[1:43] inefficient and inadequate. Dade

[1:45] County's Director of Emergency

[1:47] Management Kate Hail said federal help

[1:49] was not getting there fast enough.

[1:52] If we do not get more food and water

[1:54] into the South End in a very short

[1:57] period of time, we are going to have

[1:59] more casualties because we're going to

[2:01] have people who are dehydrated, who are

[2:03] without food, babies that need formula.

[2:06] Dade County is running these

[2:08] distribution sites. We've got the

[2:10] hospitals in place with the help of the

[2:12] public health service and our

[2:13] firefighters. But for God's sakes, would

[2:15] you please cut it out and help us out

[2:17] down here? The hurricane has claimed at

[2:20] least 20 lives in Florida, the Bahamas,

[2:22] and Louisiana. The remnants of the storm

[2:24] drenched Mississippi with heavy rain

[2:26] today, prompting flood warnings. At

[2:28] least five tornadoes were spotted in

[2:30] central and northern parts of the state,

[2:32] but there were no reports of major

[2:34] damage. In Louisiana, hundreds of people

[2:36] remained homeless today. At least

[2:38] 160,000 homes and businesses are still

[2:41] without power. Officials said it would

[2:43] be 2 days before damage estimates were

[2:45] available. We'll have more on the story

[2:47] later in the program. Jim,

[2:50] >> the nation's economic growth slowed in

[2:52] the second quarter of the year. The

[2:53] Commerce Department said today the gross

[2:55] domestic product grew at a 1.4% annual

[2:59] rate from April to June. That was less

[3:01] than half the 2.9% growth recorded in

[3:04] the first quarter. The report said a

[3:07] drop in consumer spending was the main

[3:09] reason.

[3:10] >> On the campaign trail today, President

[3:12] Bush traveled to Missouri and Ohio. He

[3:14] began in St. Lewis where he toured a

[3:16] factory which makes safety equipment for

[3:18] law enforcement agencies. The company

[3:20] sells a third of its products abroad.

[3:23] Mr. Bush accused his Democratic

[3:25] opponent, Bill Clinton, of

[3:26] fear-mongering on trade policy and said

[3:28] he failed to take a definitive stand on

[3:30] the newly negotiated North American Free

[3:33] Trade Agreement.

[3:34] >> My opponents see us knock down trade

[3:36] barriers and they say, "Hold

[3:38] everything." They say it's open new

[3:40] markets for American goods. And they

[3:41] say, "Wait a minute. Maybe we can't

[3:44] compete. Maybe the American worker can't

[3:46] cut it. So, let's pull down the blinds,

[3:49] lock the doors, and hope the world goes

[3:52] away. Let me tell them something that

[3:55] you already know in this plan. The

[3:58] American worker doesn't have to hide

[4:00] from anybody. Americans can outwork,

[4:03] outthink, out compete anybody, anywhere,

[4:07] anytime. Governor Clinton responded by

[4:10] saying that he supports expanding trade

[4:12] and investment. In the past, he said he

[4:14] also supports the concept of North

[4:16] American free trade, but wanted to

[4:18] analyze the impact of the new agreement

[4:19] on wages and the environment. Clinton

[4:22] and his running mate, Senator Al Gore,

[4:24] were in San Antonio, Texas today to kick

[4:26] off their latest bus tour. At a rally,

[4:29] Clinton criticized Mr. Bush's Houston

[4:31] acceptance speech and his economic

[4:33] policies. One

[4:34] >> thing the president did a great job of

[4:36] was blame Congress. He said, "What do

[4:37] you expect us to do? We just had the

[4:39] White House for 12 years. It's all

[4:41] Congress's fault."

[4:43] If I'd have said stuff like that when I

[4:44] was a little boy, my mama would have

[4:46] spanked me.

[4:48] When George Bush sent his budget down

[4:50] this year, it was so bad.

[4:54] So bad. So totally without thought,

[4:57] integrity, that threearters of the

[4:59] Republicans in Congress opposed it. Now,

[5:02] he didn't tell you that in Houston, did

[5:04] he?

[5:06] Vice President Quail and Governor

[5:08] Clinton traded accusations about

[5:10] financial contributors today. Mr. Quail

[5:13] said Clinton was totally in the pocket

[5:15] of trial lawyers who contributed heavily

[5:17] to his campaign. Clinton said big

[5:19] moneyed special interests have used the

[5:21] vice president's council on

[5:23] competitiveness to get whatever they

[5:25] want done. Pentagon officials said today

[5:28] Iraq offered no resistance to the new

[5:30] allied nofly zone. The United States,

[5:33] Britain, and France have banned Iraqi

[5:35] aircraft from flying south of the 32nd

[5:38] parallel beginning today. The action was

[5:40] taken to protect Shiite Muslims from

[5:42] attack by the Iraqi army. M East talks

[5:45] in Washington ended for the week today

[5:47] with both sides still far apart.

[5:50] Palestinian officials said the new

[5:51] Israeli government had offered a change

[5:53] in tone, but proposals that were little

[5:56] different from the old hardline

[5:58] government. Negotiations between Israel

[6:00] and the Palestinians, Syrians,

[6:02] Jordanians, and Lebanese will resume on

[6:04] Monday.

[6:05] >> A two-day international conference on

[6:08] the civil war in Yugoslavia ended in

[6:10] London today with an ultimatum, but no

[6:12] peace accord. The US, Britain, and other

[6:15] major powers called on Serbia and

[6:17] Montenegro to end the bloodshed in

[6:19] Bosnia or face tougher UN sanctions and

[6:21] international isolation. Bosnia's Serbs

[6:24] did agree to put their heavy guns under

[6:26] UN control and yield some of their

[6:28] territorial gains. British Prime

[6:31] Minister John Major said a new round of

[6:33] peace talks would open in Geneva next

[6:35] week. Officials also announced that

[6:37] several thousand more UN troops would be

[6:39] sent to Bosnia to protect relief

[6:41] efforts. Shelling continued in Sievo

[6:44] despite the talks. Three people were

[6:46] killed and 20 others wounded when

[6:48] mortars fell in a residential area. It

[6:50] was by Sarvo standards a relatively

[6:53] quiet day. That's our summary of the

[6:56] news. Just ahead, the Iran Contra

[6:58] investigation and the pain from

[7:00] Hurricane Andrew.

[7:09] The search for villains and justice in

[7:11] the Iran Contra case is our lead story

[7:14] tonight. It is there because of Claire

[7:16] George, the former chief of Central

[7:17] Intelligence Agency's clandestine

[7:20] service. He was tried in a Washington

[7:22] federal court on charges of lying to

[7:24] Congress about various aspects of the

[7:26] Iran Contra affair, but the jury

[7:29] deadlocked and was unable to reach a

[7:30] verdict. Yesterday, the judge declared a

[7:33] mistrial. The arguments over the George

[7:36] case are more than legal and are only a

[7:39] part of the larger debate about the Iran

[7:41] Contra prosecutions. Our examination of

[7:44] it all begins with the trial itself and

[7:46] with a reporter who covered it, Time

[7:48] magazine's chief national security

[7:50] correspondent, Bruce Van Bourst. Bruce,

[7:53] going in, the case against George was

[7:55] considered open and shut. He here's what

[7:58] he knew. Here's what he said he knew.

[8:00] What happened? That's correct. At the

[8:03] beginning when this trial opened, uh the

[8:05] independent prosecutor Walsh felt that

[8:07] he had an opensh shut case practically.

[8:09] And there was there were grounds for

[8:10] believing this. On the one hand, George

[8:12] has said that he knew nothing about the

[8:14] Hassenfuss crash, the resupply plane to

[8:16] the Contra as far as it related to the

[8:18] agency. Uh George also claimed that he

[8:21] didn't know General Cord for example,

[8:23] when in fact it was quite demonstrable

[8:24] that he had met Cord in the White House

[8:26] situation room before that. Finally,

[8:28] they had as a very good witness against

[8:31] uh George, Alan Fires, who was his

[8:34] deputy and worked closely with him in

[8:35] the agency and who's prepared to testify

[8:37] that George in fact knew far more than

[8:39] he had told Congress when they met. What

[8:41] happened during the course of the trial

[8:43] was really very interesting because

[8:45] although these points were established

[8:46] to some extent, the jury became came

[8:48] around to taking a very narrow

[8:50] interpretation of what George's

[8:52] responsibility was in talking to

[8:54] Congress. They were asking whether it he

[8:57] had to tell everything when he was asked

[8:58] and turns out of course that the

[9:00] Congress in these hearings the

[9:01] congressmen were not very specific and

[9:04] very precise in their questioning. So

[9:06] >> So the question was did he have an

[9:07] obligation under the law to volunteer

[9:10] various things. Is that right?

[9:11] >> Yes. Exactly that. And on top of that

[9:14] >> in other words if I say did you have a

[9:16] hamburger for lunch and you say yes but

[9:18] I don't ask you about the French fries

[9:20] and you're not in violation of the law

[9:22] >> and I can't go to jail for not telling

[9:23] you about the French fries.

[9:24] Um, of course, a lot of this reflect at

[9:26] the same time George's basic reluctance

[9:28] to share with the Congress. I think this

[9:30] is something traditional in the ethos of

[9:33] the generation that he represents. But

[9:35] nevertheless, he was able to make the

[9:37] case uh quite successfully and as we

[9:39] understand it, the jury was for the most

[9:41] part a majority for a quiddle on on all

[9:43] nine counts. Uh he was able to survive

[9:45] on that on that.

[9:48] >> What was his basic defense?

[9:50] >> Uh a number of things. first of all that

[9:52] he is not that the most critical thing

[9:54] is a spin-off from what you just said

[9:55] and that is that he says he was not

[9:57] required to tell in great detail more

[10:00] than he was being asked and that the

[10:02] congressman just didn't ask specifically

[10:04] uh the questions. Secondly,

[10:05] >> why does he say he was not obligated to

[10:08] tell the Congress of the United States

[10:09] everything that he knew?

[10:10] >> That's his philosophical position visi

[10:12] Congress and that's an attitude shared

[10:14] by a lot of people in the agency as

[10:15] well. He says too that he was very busy

[10:18] at this time. uh he was dealing with a

[10:20] lot of other clandestine operations that

[10:22] this wasn't as high on his radar screen

[10:24] as it might be when he sat in the jury

[10:26] room. He also of course suggests that

[10:28] some things were were kept from him. Uh

[10:30] Bill Casey after all was was also in

[10:34] instrumental in running these

[10:35] operations.

[10:35] >> Of course, he was he was George's boss.

[10:37] >> George's boss, right? In a in a sense,

[10:39] George is arguing that he was caught and

[10:41] the agency was caught between a

[10:43] president who wanted to run an operation

[10:44] in support of the Contra and a Congress

[10:46] that was somewhat ambivalent but

[10:48] nevertheless basically uh passing

[10:51] legislation to prevent this.

[10:53] >> Well, did it go around? Did it uh did

[10:56] the final fact that the jury couldn't

[10:59] reach a decision? Was it on the basis

[11:02] that not so much whether or not he did

[11:03] it, but whether or not it was a

[11:05] violation of the law that he did it? In

[11:07] other words, what he was charged with.

[11:08] >> That's specifically right because the

[11:10] jury just decided that uh in this very

[11:13] nuanced area, the gray area of what he

[11:15] was supposed to tell Congress, that he

[11:17] had in fact fulfilled his constitution,

[11:19] his legal responsibilities. Um I think

[11:21] that the most telling thing I heard, we

[11:23] were very lucky, by the way, this the

[11:24] foreman of the jury, uh Steven Kirk, uh

[11:27] was a very articulate and very

[11:28] intelligent observant. He said

[11:30] afterwards something I think is really

[11:31] the core of it. He said, "As a citizen,

[11:33] I would like that my senior officials

[11:35] were much more candid and open in

[11:37] talking to Congress. As a juror, I

[11:39] cannot expect to I can't I have to give

[11:41] him the benefit of the doubt with

[11:43] respect to whether he fulfilled

[11:44] >> this particular man in this particular

[11:46] case."

[11:47] >> That's exactly right.

[11:48] >> Yeah. All right. Now, uh, is this a a

[11:50] real thing, this decision to retry him

[11:53] again beginning October the 19th?

[11:54] >> Uh, that's difficult to say. Certainly,

[11:56] Judge Walsh intends to do that and his

[11:58] prosecuting attorney attorney uh Craig

[12:00] Gillum who did it who handled the

[12:02] courtroom for him is determined to go

[12:03] ahead. Now, Hibby, the defense lawyer,

[12:06] uh has raised some questions. He points

[12:07] out that there was never a majority for

[12:10] conviction here. In fact, it was the

[12:11] other way around. And so, he raises

[12:13] questions whether it's legitimate to go

[12:14] ahead with a retrial under these

[12:16] circumstances.

[12:16] >> But is it solely up to uh to uh the

[12:20] prosecutor? So, I mean, it doesn't

[12:21] matter what the defense says, right?

[12:23] >> No, but Walsh and But they will have

[12:25] some discussions. I suspect, but that

[12:27] it's very important to Walsh to pursue

[12:28] this because he's got these other cases

[12:30] upcoming.

[12:31] >> Yeah. Well, look, let's go into the

[12:32] bring into the discussion now former CIA

[12:35] director William Kby and former

[12:36] Democratic Congressman Michael Barnes,

[12:38] who chaired the House Subcommittee on

[12:40] Western Hemisphere affairs from 1981 to

[12:43] 87. He held hearings on the Iran Contra

[12:46] affair and helped instigate the

[12:47] congressional investigation of it.

[12:49] First, Mr. Kby, do you believe that the

[12:51] prosecution against Clare George should

[12:53] now proceed? I do not think it should

[12:56] have started. I think you're seeing here

[12:58] a jury doing that one thing that a jury

[13:01] is for. Not automatically to apply a

[13:04] decision, but to use its good sense of

[13:07] the community as to whether this man

[13:08] should be convicted. That's what they

[13:10] felt. They looked at it as human beings.

[13:13] They said no, he should not be

[13:15] convicted. This was a major political

[13:18] fight between the Congress and the

[13:20] president. And what has happened with

[13:22] the result? The president has not been

[13:25] accused. Bill Casey, of course, has

[13:28] died. North and Point Dexter both have

[13:31] been reversed on appeal. So, who are we

[13:33] prosecuting? Some middle level CIA

[13:36] officers. Not for what they did, but for

[13:38] what they didn't say. They're not being

[13:40] prosecuted for having violated

[13:42] Congress's rules of behavior. They're

[13:44] being prosecuted because they didn't

[13:46] come up and tattle them. Now, the CIA is

[13:49] not a law enforcement agency, and we've

[13:52] had that problem before. We had edges of

[13:54] Watergate before it happened. We didn't

[13:56] know what it was all about, but it

[13:58] wasn't our role to run over and make a

[14:00] big stir about it right away.

[14:02] >> Explain to to the average American why

[14:04] it isn't the role of an of a government

[14:06] employee to tell the Congress of the

[14:08] United States what in the world is going

[14:09] on.

[14:10] >> Well, it does have that that obligation.

[14:12] I'm the guy who told them perhaps more

[14:14] than anybody. So I'm sympathetic with

[14:16] that point. But as I understand it, the

[14:19] relationship between the committees and

[14:20] and the CIA is really pretty good now

[14:23] under Webster and under Gates. There is

[14:26] a full sharing of the facts of what what

[14:29] CIA is doing. But CIA is not running out

[14:33] to find out whether some other crime is

[14:36] being committed that it's none of its

[14:38] business. it it's going to stay out of

[14:40] that kind of thing because the law says

[14:42] it shall not be engaged in law

[14:45] enforcement. Zero.

[14:47] >> Mr. Barnes, what do you how do you feel

[14:48] about this? Do you think first of all

[14:50] that uh it was proper to prosecute Clare

[14:53] George to begin with? Do you believe he

[14:55] was in violation of a law and should go

[14:57] to jail for at least be tried for it?

[14:59] Well, if if the prosecutor, the

[15:01] independent prosecutor in this case had

[15:03] evidence that the crime was committed uh

[15:06] by this individual and he had a

[15:07] responsibility to to prosecute him.

[15:10] You've got a question now, having

[15:11] presented that evidence to a jury and

[15:13] having the foreman of the jury tell us

[15:15] that that they never could get a

[15:16] majority of the jury to uh to to support

[15:19] conviction. Question whether it should

[15:22] go forward. But uh these are very

[15:24] important issues

[15:26] >> that we're talking about here. Uh the

[15:28] foreman of the jury apparently

[15:29] understood that when saying as a citizen

[15:31] he would like to see uh CIA officials

[15:33] and other government officials tell the

[15:35] truth to Congress. He understood that

[15:36] there's a basic democratic principle

[15:38] here and that is that an agency like the

[15:40] Central Intelligence Agency should not

[15:42] be doing what they were doing. Uh if

[15:45] anybody if anybody is to is to to

[15:48] believe Oliver North or Mr. Po Dexter or

[15:50] all the other testimony that we've heard

[15:52] about this, we know that Mr. Casey and

[15:55] other officials of of the United States

[15:57] government at the highest levels were

[15:59] violating the law purposefully knowing

[16:01] they were doing it. This was a law

[16:02] passed by the Congress and signed by his

[16:04] boss, the president of the United

[16:05] States.

[16:06] >> You're talking about the law which

[16:07] prohibited their actions,

[16:08] >> right?

[16:09] >> And not only did did they engage in

[16:11] these activities, but that they then

[16:13] repeatedly lied when I and other members

[16:16] of Congress asked them, "Are you doing

[16:18] it?" I asked Mr. Casey, for example,

[16:20] about the Hassenfuss plane. Did the

[16:22] Central Intelligence Agency know

[16:23] anything about this? No. Did you seek to

[16:26] find out anything about it? American

[16:27] citizens flying around Central America

[16:29] with weapons? No. Uh,

[16:32] clear lies we now know in retrospect.

[16:35] And Mr. Casey's death was was rather

[16:37] timely. Uh, uh,

[16:39] >> but where does Clare George fit into

[16:40] this as an employee of Bill Casey and of

[16:43] the American people, etc. What would his

[16:46] proper what should he have done from

[16:48] your perspective that he did not do?

[16:50] Well, he should have answered the

[16:53] questions honestly and truthfully. If

[16:55] democracy means anything, it means that

[16:58] the elected representatives of the

[17:00] people, the president of the United

[17:01] States and the members of the of the

[17:02] Congress have responsibility to oversee

[17:05] the FBI and the Defense Department and

[17:07] the Central Intelligence Agencies and

[17:09] others. And there's no way they can do

[17:10] their job if they're lied to repeatedly

[17:12] as they were as as we were repeatedly

[17:15] with respect to this policy all through

[17:16] the 1980s.

[17:18] >> Mr. Kobe,

[17:19] >> we're still talking not about what CIA

[17:21] was doing. We're talking about what

[17:23] Oliver North and Po Dexter and various

[17:25] others on their independent offtheshelf

[17:28] operation. Casey may well have been

[17:30] involved in that, but he clearly said,

[17:32] "You guys stay out of this. The CIA, you

[17:35] stay out of it." And there only about

[17:36] two or three instances where North asked

[17:40] that one of our people pass a message.

[17:43] Couple of things like that. Now the CIA

[17:46] realized that something was going on at

[17:48] a very high level in the American

[17:50] government through supported by the

[17:52] president and it wasn't going to get in

[17:54] the middle of the fight between the

[17:56] Congress and the president and that's

[17:58] why they pushed the subject away as far

[18:00] far as