MSNBC - The Situation - 2005-10-07 - 2 of 2

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Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] give hostages to fortune. So, they

[0:02] didn't have to ask me. They knew where I

[0:03] was.

[0:04] >> But, but do you think they should have I

[0:05] mean, from my as a non- lawyer, it seems

[0:07] to me obvious that the president would

[0:09] want to sit her down and say, you know,

[0:10] here are the important questions that

[0:12] might be raised on the Supreme Court.

[0:14] What do you think of them? What? Why?

[0:16] But everyone pretends or says that

[0:18] that's somehow verbot and you're not

[0:19] supposed to do that. What do you think

[0:20] of it? Well, I think it's ridiculous

[0:22] because the president is not supposed to

[0:24] ask the nominee, but the senators all

[0:27] drill the nominee uh endlessly about her

[0:30] about his or her positions on various

[0:32] issues. Why the senator should be

[0:34] allowed to do that and the president

[0:36] shouldn't be, I don't know. But I wish

[0:38] the president wouldn't ask her how will

[0:39] you vote on this case, but try to ask

[0:41] her what do you materials do do you

[0:44] consider relevant to deciding this case?

[0:46] >> Yes. Well, a fascinating point brought

[0:48] up this morning uh by Charles

[0:50] Crowutamemer in his column in the

[0:51] Washington Post. He says that uh for

[0:53] four years, Meyers has been immersed in

[0:55] the war and peace decisions uh while

[0:57] working at the White House, questions of

[0:59] prisoner detention, prisoner treatment,

[1:01] war powers, etc. And he makes the point

[1:03] if she does reach Supreme Court, she'll

[1:05] have to recuse herself from judging the

[1:07] constitutionality of these decisions

[1:09] because she'll she will have been party

[1:11] to making those decisions. She won't be

[1:12] able to weigh in on these on these vital

[1:14] questions of American life. Is that

[1:16] true, do you think?

[1:17] >> I'm not sure that it is true. Uh,

[1:19] Justice Robert Jackson advised President

[1:23] Truman

[1:24] and President Roosevelt on issues like

[1:27] that and then changed his mind when he

[1:30] got on the Supreme Court in the steel

[1:33] seizure case which held illegal

[1:34] President Truman seizure of the steel

[1:36] mills during the Korean War. So, I'm not

[1:38] sure that having participated in the

[1:41] decision at the executive branch level

[1:44] uh

[1:46] disqualifies you from deciding the issue

[1:48] as a judge,

[1:49] >> right? I I can say I don't think it

[1:50] should either. Now, what do you what do

[1:51] you think her chances of being confirmed

[1:53] are?

[1:54] >> I think they're probably pretty high

[1:55] because and and this should give the

[1:58] president some pause. They're pretty

[1:59] high because the Democrats seem to like

[2:01] her.

[2:01] >> Yeah. And I think that ought to give him

[2:05] reason to think that maybe he made a

[2:07] mistake.

[2:08] >> What about conservatives in in

[2:09] Washington? I no longer live there, so I

[2:11] don't have quite my finger in the pulse

[2:12] of it, but what's I know you do. What's

[2:13] your sense of how Bush's supporters feel

[2:16] about Harriet Meyers?

[2:18] >> Well, those who are involved in the

[2:19] process have some reason to to stick

[2:21] with the White House. uh not ne not not

[2:25] because they believe what the White

[2:27] House has done is wise, but they they

[2:29] can't jump overboard are with this

[2:32] decision, but everybody else I've talked

[2:33] to is ranges between disapproval and

[2:38] outrage.

[2:39] >> Huh. Interesting. Well, I hope those

[2:41] voicing disapproval and outrage carry

[2:42] the day. I agree with you completely.

[2:44] Judge Robert Bourke, thanks a lot for

[2:45] joining us.

[2:45] >> Okay. When we come back, the arch dasis

[2:48] of New York siphons money from the poor,

[2:50] the sick, and the underprivileged to

[2:52] help priests kick their bad habits. A

[2:54] pious act or something sinful? We'll

[2:57] debate that next.

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[5:44] In the annals of argument, one man

[5:46] stands head and shoulders above the

[5:47] rest. Please welcome one of the great

[5:49] debaters of our age, professional

[5:51] devil's advocate and outsider from ESPN

[5:54] radio and HBO boxing from Las Vegas, Max

[5:56] Kellerman.

[5:57] >> By our age, you mean 30some?

[5:59] >> No, I meant in this millennium. It's

[6:02] grander than that, Max.

[6:03] >> What an introduction.

[6:04] >> Thank you. First up, the Nobel Peace

[6:06] Prize was announced earlier today. The

[6:08] winners, Muhammad Albaray and the

[6:10] International Atomic Energy Agency.

[6:12] You'll recall that Albarad has been at

[6:14] very public odds with US foreign policy

[6:16] over the past several years. And that

[6:18] alone apparently enough for the Nobel

[6:19] Committee to award him the coveted

[6:22] prize. Actually, Max, he got the prize

[6:24] for quote his work stopping the spread

[6:27] of nuclear weapons, right? No mention of

[6:30] Iran or North Korea, but you know as

[6:32] well as I do that the real reason he got

[6:34] the award was he's anti-American. That's

[6:37] the single criterion for winning this

[6:39] award these days. Three years ago when

[6:41] Jimmy Carter got the award, the head of

[6:44] the selection committee said giving

[6:46] Carter this award was our way to kick

[6:48] the administration in the leg. Quote,

[6:50] right? You can go through the whole list

[6:52] of people who have won Rigaba menshu

[6:54] back to Yaser Arafat, a Nobel Peace

[6:56] Prize winner, often forgotten, uh, and

[6:59] see that the thread that connects all of

[7:00] them is their dislike of the United

[7:02] States. That's why he won. And that's

[7:04] why we to ignore what that little

[7:06] Norwegian committee does every year with

[7:07] its $1.3 million. Who cares what they

[7:09] think? Well, I mean, yeah, you're right.

[7:11] If you're anti-American, it certainly

[7:12] seems to put you in the running. And

[7:13] this is the indefensible, but let me try

[7:15] my best here. Uh, it's a shame, too,

[7:17] because if you win the Nobel Prize in

[7:20] medicine, you know, and science, that's

[7:22] a really, really big deal. Exactly. And

[7:24] the peace prize has been devalued. This

[7:26] is the chief nuclear weapons inspector.

[7:29] And Alfred Nobel in his in in his will

[7:32] wrote uh, you know, it's to be given

[7:34] out. One of the criteria was for the

[7:35] reduction of standing armies. And

[7:37] clearly this is before you know nuclear

[7:39] weapons. And so nuclear weapons are pose

[7:42] more of a threat than standing armies.

[7:44] It can be argued. And for someone who

[7:46] has worked to reduce nuclear weapons,

[7:48] they're eligible for the prize.

[7:51] Yes. But there are many people who've

[7:53] worked to make this world a more

[7:54] peaceful place. And yet it's only the

[7:57] ones who do that while tweaking the

[7:59] United States who win. And I guess my

[8:01] only point is this is a little fringe

[8:03] group of Norwegians who makes this

[8:05] decision and the rest of us slavishly

[8:07] cover this thing like it's a big deal,

[8:08] like it matters, like it means

[8:10] something. And it doesn't. And I guess

[8:12] my hope is we would next time they

[8:13] announce some America hater as the

[8:14] winner of this award, the rest of us

[8:16] just yawn and flip the channel.

[8:17] >> Well, yeah. And in an age though of

[8:19] nuclear proliferation, I mean, that's

[8:21] really the scariest thing in the world

[8:23] right now. You're talking about

[8:24] terrorism. Terrorism is just a tactic.

[8:27] You know that we're we're fighting

[8:28] fundamentalists, but nuclear

[8:30] proliferation, we've known for years

[8:32] now, poses a real threat to people who

[8:35] hate America. And so anything to stop

[8:38] that is good even for America. And one

[8:40] last thing, the presence of nuclear

[8:43] weapons themselves actually might be

[8:45] considered good things if they belong to

[8:48] stable nation states because they reduce

[8:50] conventional warfare and and death. If

[8:52] you look at the the number of dead.

[8:54] >> That's totally right. If we hadn't had

[8:55] nuclear weapons during the Cold War,

[8:57] we'd be speaking Russian right now.

[8:58] There's no question.

[8:59] >> Or no one would be speaking anything.

[9:01] We'd be they'd be Mad Max beyond

[9:03] Thunderdome. Tucker.

[9:04] >> Exactly.

[9:04] >> Yeah.

[9:05] >> Well, a little knowledge is a dangerous

[9:06] thing. At least as far as the government

[9:08] is concerned. Agents from the Office of

[9:10] Maryland State Controller in cooperation

[9:12] with the Washington Suburban Sanitary

[9:14] Commission, they have guns, believe it

[9:16] or not, made a big bust earlier this

[9:18] week. They arrested a lone teenager and

[9:20] seized the illicit moonshine distillery

[9:22] he allegedly built from a bucket, a

[9:24] trash can, and some copper pipe. The boy

[9:27] told investigators he learned the

[9:28] essentials of bootlegging in high school

[9:30] science class and on the internet. Yet

[9:33] another example of law enforcement and

[9:35] the bureaucracy running completely a

[9:37] muck. Here, this kid is attempting to

[9:39] broaden his science education, basically

[9:42] taking his homework to the next level,

[9:44] right? and building what he learned

[9:46] about in an abstract way in science

[9:47] class and he gets busted for it. They

[9:50] are trying to crush this kid's

[9:51] enthusiasm, his initiative, his effort.

[9:54] It's soulkilling and it's wrong. Go

[9:56] catch some terrorists is my view.

[9:57] >> It is interesting that he learns it on

[9:59] the internet as opposed to the way

[10:00] moonshine used to be learned which is

[10:02] from your father/ older brother. And I

[10:04] and I that could be the same person. You

[10:06] know, NASCAR, I've been informed,

[10:09] actually started because people were

[10:11] were bootlegging moonshine,

[10:14] >> which of course, as we've mentioned,

[10:15] bootlegging moonshine. I don't don't

[10:17] know what that means really, but they

[10:19] were bootlegging moonshine and they were

[10:21] taking off from the cops. They were

[10:22] souping up their cars. That was NASCAR.

[10:24] So, it's led to some interesting

[10:26] American institutions. Moonshine.

[10:28] However, using the internet to do things

[10:31] that are illegal is still illegal. Now,

[10:34] in this case, it's moonshine, but in

[10:35] another case, it could be building a

[10:36] bomb and and and

[10:38] >> of course, it could be building a bomb.

[10:40] It could be releasing, you know, LSD

[10:42] into the water supply or blowing anthrax

[10:44] into the subway, but it wasn't. It was

[10:45] building a still. And it may be illegal.

[10:47] A lot of things are illegal, but not all

[10:49] things that are illegal are wrong. And

[10:51] law enforcement ought to ought to focus

[10:52] on enforcing the laws that matter. And

[10:54] this one doesn't matter. Yet another

[10:56] waste of resources. people who really

[10:58] are thinking with their guns or blinded

[11:00] by the bureaucracy to what is good and

[11:02] right for the society. Busting some kid

[11:04] who's just trying to like learn more

[11:05] about science. It's bad.

[11:06] >> Yeah. Uh agreed. One last thing, they

[11:09] they bust people who grow marijuana in

[11:12] their backyard all the time. And I don't

[11:14] see where this is any different.

[11:15] >> I I actually agree with you. And the

[11:17] Roman Catholic Arch Dascis of New York

[11:19] has a couple of new commandments for its

[11:20] priests. Thou shalt not smoke and thou

[11:23] shalt not get fat. Priests who lose

[11:25] weight or quit smoking will now be

[11:26] eligible for a $500 bonus, but it's not

[11:29] easy money. The arch dasis says

[11:30] overweight priests must trim 10 points

[11:32] from their body mass index. Smokers have

[11:35] to quit for a year to get their money.

[11:36] Very few may collect. But I think the

[11:38] whole idea is a misguided one, Max. And

[11:40] not just because this money might be

[11:42] going to the poor. That's not the point

[11:43] I'm making. The point I'm making is if

[11:45] you're running the Catholic Church of

[11:46] the Arch Dasis of New York and your

[11:48] priests are smoking cigarettes or eating

[11:49] too much, you ought to be psyched. Okay?

[11:51] That is the least of your problems.

[11:53] You've got all sorts of potential

[11:54] problems that could arise in their

[11:56] behavior that we've seen over the past

[11:57] couple of years. Moreover, you ought to

[11:59] be worried about ministering to

[12:00] parishioners. Who cares if they smoke?

[12:02] Who cares if they're fat? Those are

[12:04] temporal concerns. This is a church.

[12:06] They ought to be worried about spiritual

[12:07] concerns. Are people being fed

[12:09] spiritually? Are they going to make it

[12:10] to the hereafter? Right? Are they going

[12:11] to make it into the kingdom of God? And

[12:13] they're worried about whether the person

[12:14] has a secret marvel habit. Come on, wake

[12:16] up.

[12:16] >> Well, the Catholic Church, you can look

[12:19] at it as a very, very successful

[12:21] business. They're extremely wealthy and

[12:23] one of, you know, if you run a

[12:24] successful business,

[12:25] >> it's a business, not a health club,

[12:26] though.

[12:27] >> Well, if you see health care costs

[12:28] skyrocketing and you notice that maybe

[12:31] as a result of the policy of celibacy or

[12:33] the or the uh the uh the uh law of

[12:36] celibacy among priests that they smoke a

[12:39] lot and they eat a lot and you notice

[12:41] that it costs you a lot of money to take

[12:43] care of that later on, then it's a

[12:45] preventive measure. I don't see what the

[12:46] big deal is.

[12:46] >> Well, I mean, you are lucky if that's

[12:50] all they're doing. And I just think they

[12:51] ought to spend their time and their

[12:53] money focusing on things that matter.

[12:55] And this is

[12:57] >> celibacy wasn't one of the laws of

[12:59] becoming a priest. The smoking and the

[13:01] eating would take care of itself.

[13:02] >> Well, I I completely agree with that,

[13:04] too. We're we're agreeing again. Max,

[13:06] >> however, neither one of us are

[13:07] Catholics, so we're not really allowed

[13:08] to say that.

[13:09] >> Yeah. Well, we're going to say it

[13:10] anyway. Max Kellerman from Las Vegas.

[13:12] Have a great weekend.

[13:13] >> Talker. Coming up, Carl Rove faces

[13:16] possible indictment in the investigation

[13:17] into the leak of a CIA officer's name.

[13:20] Can the Bush White House survive without

[13:22] his brain? We'll put that question to

[13:23] Bill Press when we come back.

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[16:24] Welcome back. Rising gas prices, the war

[16:27] in Iraq, the Valerie Plame

[16:28] investigation, a hurricane Katrina

[16:30] debacle, the fur over Harriet Meyers.

[16:33] All add up to a headache for the White

[16:35] House as well as an equal and opposite

[16:37] reaction from the other side of the

[16:38] aisle. Yes, Christmas has come early to

[16:41] Liberalville this year. Joining us now

[16:43] to discuss whether bad news on the right

[16:44] means good news on the left, one of the

[16:46] great liberals of our time, syndicated

[16:48] radio show host and author of the

[16:50] forthcoming soon to be bestseller, How

[16:52] the Republicans stole Christmas, Bill

[16:54] Press.

[16:55] >> Hey, Tucker Carlson. I miss the spin

[16:57] room.

[16:57] >> I Well, you know, I do too, Bill. We can

[17:00] recreate it for for a moment here. All

[17:02] right,

[17:03] >> your column this week, smart but very

[17:06] twisted. Here's the perspective I think

[17:08] you're putting forth in your column that

[17:10] this whole Harriet Meyers nomination,

[17:12] which is infuriated conservatives across

[17:15] the country, is in fact a diabolical

[17:17] plot by the White House to sneak in this

[17:20] stealth right-winger that conservatives

[17:22] are pretending to be outraged just so

[17:24] liberals won't notice when they sneak in

[17:26] the Scalia clone. Do you really believe

[17:27] that?

[17:28] >> Uh, first I really do believe it. You've

[17:30] almost got it right. What I think I

[17:31] think the conservatives are either on

[17:33] the Bush payroll, which I don't think

[17:35] they are, or they're just dumber than I

[17:36] thought. I mean, the ones who are

[17:38] screaming so loudly about this. Look,

[17:39] Tucker, Carl Rove would not have let

[17:41] George Bush name Harriet Myers to the

[17:43] court unless they knew that she went was

[17:46] right down the line with them on all the

[17:48] issues. It was diabolical but also

[17:50] brilliant because they knew if they took

[17:52] one of those people from the

[17:53] conservative short wish list that they

[17:55] were pushing, Michael Lutig and and

[17:56] Janice Rogers Brown and those people,

[17:58] there would have been a huge battle on

[18:00] Capitol Hill. So what they did was they

[18:02] put a woman in who's just as

[18:03] conservative as as any of those other

[18:05] guys, but nobody knows she is. So, you

[18:08] know, there's there's nothing to grab on

[18:09] to. And I think the conservatives are

[18:11] falling for it by screaming so loud. And

[18:13] I think the Democrats are falling for it

[18:15] by staying silent. I've got to tell you,

[18:17] it's diabolical. Really, I just couldn't

[18:19] disagree more. I think that this is

[18:20] probably the best thing to happen to

[18:22] Democrats in a long time. You have this

[18:24] president who's not terribly

[18:25] conservative himself, but was elected by

[18:27] conservatives by and large. And so, you

[18:29] got to expect he's going to appoint

[18:30] someone pretty conservative. Here you

[18:32] have a woman who's really never said

[18:33] anything about political issues in

[18:35] public. As Melinda Hannenburgger said uh

[18:37] the other day in Newsweek, she said,

[18:38] "Have you ever met someone who's opposed

[18:40] to abortion who kept that opposition

[18:42] quiet?" No. All proiffers are loud about

[18:44] it. She's never said anything about it.

[18:46] So odds are she's is likely to be

[18:49] liberal. She is conservative. This is

[18:50] the best you're going to get.

[18:51] >> Hey, I don't trust her and I don't trust

[18:52] him. Tucker, look, let me tell you.

[18:54] She's never said anything publicly, but

[18:56] all those hours that she spent with

[18:58] George Bush when she was representing

[18:59] him, when they were traveling together,

[19:00] she was cutting I've got a picture of

[19:02] her in my office of her cutting brush

[19:04] with Bush on the ranch. When they're

[19:06] sitting out on the back porch having a

[19:08] beer, what do you think they talk about?

[19:09] They talk about the same stuff you and I

[19:11] do. Bush knows where she is. I'd be

[19:12] willing to bet she is a Scalia in

[19:15] sheep's clothing.

[19:17] >> Well, if I can't get you excited about

[19:18] that,

[19:18] >> I am excited.

[19:19] >> Maybe

[19:22] I see that that's a good thing for the

[19:24] left, then maybe I I want to know what

[19:26] you think of the problems that Carl Ro

[19:29] is facing now. He's going in for his

[19:30] fourth uh appearance before the grand

[19:32] jury in this Fitzgerald investigation of

[19:34] the Valerie Pla leak. The the late

[19:36] breaking news today is Judith Miller

[19:37] apparently has turned over notes uh that

[19:40] she just found reportedly uh from a

[19:42] conversation she had with Scooter Libby,

[19:44] that's of course vice president Dick

[19:45] Chain's chief of staff, and she's

[19:47] turning those over uh to the the

[19:49] prosecutor. Don't you wish, as much as

[19:53] this might be the end of Carl Rove, that

[19:56] this was a debate about policy or ideas,

[19:58] don't you sort of feel a little bad that

[20:00] your side is winning on essentially what

[20:02] is a technicality? Oh, Tucker, let me

[20:05] tell you something. Uh, you know, I

[20:07] never I'm a liberal, right? I don't wish

[20:09] ill of anybody, but I can't wait to see

[20:11] Carl Rove frog marched out of the White

[20:14] House alongside of Scooter Libby. I

[20:17] think what these guys tried to do is

[20:19] they tried to swift vote Joe Wilson by

[20:21] going after his wife and they got caught

[20:23] and uh, you know, Patrick Fitzgerald has

[20:25] stayed has stayed on the case. I think

[20:27] it's going to be hugely embarrassing for

[20:29] the Bush administration. But Tucker, you

[20:31] got to add to Carl Ro and Scooter Libby.

[20:33] got to add Bill Fris and Tom Delay and

[20:35] David Seavian and Jack Abramoff. They're

[20:37] going to have to build a whole new wing

[20:39] of the Lewis Lewon federal prison.

[20:41] >> Apart from Sevian and and uh uh Jack

[20:45] Abramoff, both of whom are accused of

[20:47] pretty heavy duty crimes and neither of

[20:48] whom I would even think of defending

[20:50] ever in public or private. The other

[20:52] things are pretty small potatoes in my

[20:53] view. But still the question remains,

[20:55] >> isn't it isn't it better for America to

[20:58] have open out in public debates about

[21:01] issues like I don't know health care or

[21:04] abortion or the death penalty or the war

[21:05] in Iraq or whatever divides the two

[21:07] parties rather than this kind of war of

[21:10] attrition by prosecutor that's been

[21:11] going on for about 10 years.

[21:12] >> Well, first of all, I think I disagree

[21:14] on Tom Delay. Tom Delay on this latest

[21:16] charge could go to life in prison for

[21:18] what he's accused of for that

[21:19] moneyaundering. That's not penny stuff.

[21:21] That's pretty serious stuff. But look,

[21:22] Tucker, back to the Carl Rove thing. It

[21:24] is a major policy thing, and I'd love to

[21:26] have that policy debate. Why didn't we

[21:28] before the war, and I know you've come

[21:30] out and said you thought you were

[21:31] snookered on the war. Why didn't we have

[21:33] the policy debate about what exactly was

[21:35] Saddam Hussein up to? But instead, when

[21:37] when Bush claimed in the State of the

[21:39] Union he was up to buying that yellow

[21:41] cake from Nishair and Joe Wilson said

[21:43] that was a phony claim, instead of

[21:45] proving their case, they went out to

[21:47] destroy Joe Wilson by outing his wife.

[21:49] I'll tell you why we didn't have I'll

[21:50] tell you why we didn't have a debate.

[21:51] Cowardly liberals. There were a lot of

[21:53] liberals who were opposed to this war

[21:54] who because they were afraid to say so

[21:56] in public didn't bring it up and so we

[21:58] got this war with virtually no debate.

[22:00] The the opposition was silent because

[22:02] they didn't have the courage to come

[22:03] forward.

[22:03] >> Well, I don't disagree with that. I

[22:05] think there were a lot of cowardly

[22:06] Democrats. There were Republicans that

[22:07] went along with the Bush administration.

[22:09] They refused they refused, you know,

[22:11] they just locked step, right? Democrats,

[22:13] you're right. They were afraid of being

[22:15] accused of being soft on terrorism or

[22:17] soft on page unamerican. And then I'll

[22:19] tell you what else, Tucker. The media.

[22:21] The media just swallowed all the lies of

[22:24] the Bush administration and regurgitated

[22:25] them. And there we go. We got the war in

[22:27] Iraq.

[22:27] >> Now the finally I want to tell our

[22:29] viewers something they may not know

[22:30] about you. You were for a time a

[22:32] Catholic seminarian. You know a lot

[22:34] about the Catholic Church.

[22:35] >> 10 years.

[22:35] >> 10 years. 10 years in Switzerland as I

[22:38] remember.

[22:38] >> Well, not all of it in Switzerland, but

[22:40] Switzerland and this country. I was in

[22:41] the seminary studying for the priesthood

[22:42] for 10 years. That's amazing. But what

[22:44] do you think then of this announcement

[22:46] today that the Vatican will uh allow uh

[22:49] self-described gays to become priests as

[22:52] long as they have been celibate for the

[22:53] preceding 3 years? What does this mean?

[22:57] How do you prove someone's been

[22:58] celibate? Is this a good idea? Will this

[23:00] reduce the number of molestations that

[23:02] seem to been going on in the church?

[23:04] >> All right. Well, I guess I say this.

[23:06] First of all, I think a gay person can

[23:08] take a vow of celibacy and keep it as

[23:10] much as a straight person can. But I

[23:12] think they're avoiding the issue. Tucker

[23:14] to the issue to me is why is this vow of

[23:16] celib celibacy still around for the

[23:19] first 10,000 years priests were allowed

[23:20] to get married. Second thousand years of

[23:22] the church they weren't allowed to get

[23:24] married. I say let's go back to the

[23:25] roots. I mean St. Peter was a married

[23:28] man. Most of the apostles were a married

[23:30] man. If you believe the Da Vinci Code,

[23:32] Jesus was a married man. And why not? So

[23:34] I think the answer is I think they're

[23:35] avoiding the real issue. The issue is

[23:37] they allow priests to get married and

[23:39] have families. And I think they do a

[23:40] better job and there'll be more of them.

[23:42] >> I I absolutely couldn't agree more. I

[23:44] think the Vinci Code's a piece of

[23:45] garbage, but everything else you said I

[23:46] think is totally right. Bill Press.

[23:48] >> Hey Tucker, good to see you.

[23:49] >> Former seminarian and now author of The

[23:51] Republicans Who Stole Christmas

[23:53] forthcoming soon. Look for it. Thanks

[23:55] Bill.

[23:55] >> All right, good to see you.

[23:56] >> Still ahead of the situation. So you say

[23:58] winter is your favorite season? Why

[24:00] don't you get back to me around

[24:01] February? The editor of the Farmers

[24:03] Almanac joins us with a cold, bleak

[24:05] forecast next.

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[26:16] >> Coming up, the Runaway bride puts on her

[26:18] running shoes again. Where is she headed

[26:20] this time? Should her fiance be worried?

[26:22] Plus, Tucker dials up the situation

[26:24] voicemail.

[26:26] >> Like the Runaway bride herself, we're

[26:27] leaving, but we'll be back soon.

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[27:35] >> Welcome back. The editors of the Farmers

[27:37] Almanac have been predicting the weather

[27:39] since 1818. Book uses its famous, if

[27:42] mysterious, formula to give a full

[27:44] year's forecast of conditions across the

[27:46] US. The outlook for this winter is

[27:48] unusually bleak. Sandy Duncan is the

[27:50] managing editor of the Farmers Almanac.

[27:52] She is here now to deliver the bad news

[27:54] about this year's weather. Sandy Duncan,

[27:56] thanks for coming on. Thanks for having

[27:57] me.

[27:57] >> Before you tell us what the weather's

[27:58] going to be,

[27:59] >> how do you forecast the weather so far a

[28:01] year in advance? How do you know what

[28:02] the weather's going to be?

[28:03] >> Well, luckily it's not my job, but we do

[28:05] have a weather prognosticator. He goes

[28:07] by the name of Caleb Weatherbeby, and

[28:09] he's been doing it probably about 20

[28:10] years from now, by um 20 years now, and

[28:14] he uses a mathematical and astronomical

[28:16] formula that dates back to 1818 when the

[28:18] farmers almanac first started. Um and it

[28:20] takes things like sunspot activity,

[28:22] tidal action of the moon, and position

[28:24] of the planet into factor.

[28:26] I was going to ask you the mean

[28:28] question. Does he wear a wizard's hat?

[28:29] But that would be uh cruel. What's the

[28:31] formula? And is this I mean for for

[28:33] real? That's really He takes a formula

[28:35] from 1818, plugs in this year's

[28:37] variables and comes up with the weather.

[28:38] That's

[28:39] >> exactly um is a is for real. Um the

[28:42] person and the formula is actually top

[28:43] secret. He is a real person. He lives

[28:45] somewhere on the east coast. Um but uh

[28:47] we keep him and the um true secret

[28:49] formula top secret. He's the only one

[28:51] that knows it, but it is a very

[28:53] astronomical and mathematical formula.

[28:55] And we look at these things and we have

[28:57] for years and we're pretty darn accurate

[28:58] every year when the farmers almanac

[29:00] makes its long range predictions.

[29:01] >> So all the stuff about Doppler radar and

[29:03] up to the second weather forecast. I get

[29:05] them on my cell phone. All a croc. You

[29:07] just need the formula.

[29:08] >> Well, you know, the formula helps. I

[29:10] think you know you can look at your cell

[29:11] phone, you can turn on TV and find out

[29:12] what the weather's going to be, but you

[29:13] can't find out what it's going to be on

[29:14] December 31st or June 15th of next year.

[29:17] Um, so we go out on a limb and we can't

[29:19] take the place of your local

[29:20] meteorologist. I mean, sometimes local

[29:21] conditions come into play, but we do a

[29:23] good job at, you know, taking cues from

[29:25] nature. It's about time maybe we go back

[29:27] to nature and forget about some of those

[29:28] satellite uh computer systems and maybe

[29:30] we should take our cues back from

[29:32] nature.

[29:32] >> Do you go back and check the accuracy of

[29:34] last year's forecast against what

[29:35] happened?

[29:36] >> Um, we always include like in the 2006

[29:38] Farmers Almanac, we include what we had

[29:39] predicted and what kind of happened

[29:40] overall in the whole country. Um, and

[29:42] people that follow our forecast, they

[29:44] were 80 to 85% accurate.

[29:45] >> How are you on hurricanes?

[29:46] >> Well, you know, we did predict two

[29:48] hurricanes in the Gulf Coast this year.

[29:50] We predicted one in August and one in

[29:51] September. We were off probably about 10

[29:53] days each way or one the first one in

[29:55] September. We're off about 5 days. So I

[29:57] say we're pretty good.

[29:59] >> That's not bad. I'm impressed. So

[30:00] >> next year next year hurricanes, we are

[30:02] predicting that.

[30:02] >> Well, so tell us what what's the

[30:03] weather? What's this winter going to be

[30:05] like?

[30:05] >> Well, if you like roller coasters,

[30:07] you're all set. Um the Farmers Almanac

[30:09] 2006 Farmers Almanac is calling for a

[30:11] polar coaster winter, meaning that we

[30:13] see such up and downs on the thermometer

[30:15] that you might be reminded of riding a

[30:17] roller or a polar coaster. Um but

[30:19] overall we are seeing unfortunately a

[30:21] very cold winter in the northeast. Um

[30:23] very snowy in more of the northern

[30:24] sections as far as New England and

[30:26] northern New York. Um and then as you go

[30:28] west in the Great Lakes and Midwest, um

[30:30] we're seeing a lot of snow, but the

[30:31] temperatures are a little more mild. And

[30:33] then we're seeing unusual warmth and

[30:35] actually California and Nevada and the

[30:36] Pacific Northwest.

[30:37] >> But for those people who live in

[30:39] Virginia and above, it's bad.

[30:40] >> Yeah. And actually even down to Florida,

[30:42] we are calling for quite cold conditions

[30:43] all the way down to Florida. In fact,

[30:44] we're calling some frost conditions in

[30:46] uh Florida for Christmas time. Do

[30:48] farmers still read the farmers almanac?

[30:50] >> I think it's changed over the years. I

[30:51] think some farming just like everything

[30:52] has become more sophisticated and

[30:54] farming has become more sophisticated.

[30:55] When the farmers almanac started, it was

[30:57] named after the people of its day. You

[30:59] know, farmers, good, honest, hardworking

[31:01] people. And I think we're now more of a

[31:03] publication for everybody, whether you

[31:04] have a patio garden or if you have a lot

[31:05] of uh acorage and you do farm still.

[31:08] >> So, if you're worried about hurricanes

[31:09] this coming year, where where should you

[31:10] be worried about them hitting and when?

[31:12] >> Well, you know, according to uh the 2006

[31:14] Farmers Almanac, we see three uh

[31:16] hurricane threats. um one in the Gulf

[31:18] Coast, one in Florida um August and then

[31:20] the interesting thing is we are

[31:21] predicting a possible hurricane threat

[31:23] for the whole east coast next September,

[31:25] the first week of September

[31:26] >> like upper east coast

[31:28] >> right up here up into New York, New

[31:29] Jersey area and up into the uh New

[31:31] England states as well.

[31:32] >> A big one.

[31:33] >> Uh we know all we say is hurricane

[31:34] threat. So we try to be accurate but

[31:36] like I said we do it so far in advance

[31:38] we we don't want to make people too

[31:39] worried about it.

[31:39] >> I hope in this case you're completely

[31:40] wrong but you may not be. Sandy Duncan

[31:42] the farmers almanac. Thanks.

[31:44] >> Thank you.

[31:44] >> Appreciate it. Coming up, we'll unveil

[31:46] who Esquire magazine named the sexiest

[31:49] woman alive. It's what you get when you

[31:51] combine a Tom Cruz and a Katie Holmes.

[31:53] The world is about to find out if one

[31:55] caller has a pretty good idea what that

[31:56] baby might look like. We'll check the

[31:58] situation voicemail next.

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[34:35] Next, Keith shows you what Tom and

[34:37] Katie's child may experience growing up

[34:40] among Hollywood's Scientologist elite.

[34:42] Countdown. MSNBC next.

[34:46] You heard it first on MSNBC.

[34:48] >> Is she the most qualified person?

[34:50] Clearly, the answer to that is no.

[34:52] >> Now, the backlash over Harriet Meyer's

[34:53] nomination is igniting a political

[34:55] firestorm. Chris shows you why so many

[34:58] Republicans are now ready for a battle

[35:00] within their own party. MSNBC Monday at

[35:04] 7.

[35:08] >> Hello.

[35:09] >> Welcome back. Time for a voicemail

[35:11] segment. Every night we give out our

[35:12] secret unlisted phone number and every

[35:14] day you call and leave us messages.

[35:16] Let's listen to some. First up,

[35:18] >> sucker. It's George Smith from

[35:20] Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And don't you

[35:22] think it's awful funny that every time

[35:24] the president gives a major speech on

[35:27] terrorism, all of a sudden, there it is.

[35:30] we get another terrorist threat. You

[35:33] know, it's awful funny.

[35:35] >> Any theory that begins, don't you think

[35:37] it's funny? It's usually demented. Uh,

[35:40] including yours. No, I don't think

[35:42] there's any connection at all, but I

[35:43] think it'd be a great essay for move

[35:44] on.org. Next up.

[35:47] >> Hi, Tucker. This is Mike from Torrance,

[35:49] California. My comment is regarding

[35:51] crime and its causes. Drug prohibition

[35:54] is a foolish replay of alcohol

[35:56] prohibition. We had a radical decline in

[35:58] crime following the repeal of drug

[36:00] prohibition. 65% reduction in murder

[36:02] rates. Anyway, please look for another

[36:05] place for the cause of crime. Thanks,

[36:06] Tucker. Love the show. Bye.

[36:08] >> Well, of I mean, obviously I agree. I'm

[36:10] I'm against criminalizing uh drugs

[36:13] generally. I mean, I think that they

[36:14] ought to be illegal in most cases. Drugs

[36:16] actually aren't that good for you.

[36:18] Officially illegal, but mostly

[36:19] uninforced. Let people do what they want

[36:21] until they're bothering other people.

[36:22] Kind of my theory on life. Next,

[36:25] >> Barbara Hammering, San Bernardino,

[36:27] California. My message is I don't know

[36:29] why they don't put the 55 mph speed

[36:32] limit back on due to the gas problem. It

[36:35] also saves lives. Thank you.

[36:38] >> Well, they don't because people don't

[36:40] want to drive 55 m an hour. And until

[36:42] you're paying for my gas, you're not

[36:44] allowed to tell me how fast I can drive.

[36:45] Unless, again, I'm hurting other people.

[36:47] But people have a place to go. No

[36:48] offense, Barbara. Maybe you don't. But a

[36:50] lot of us do. You want to get home after

[36:51] work and see your kids, see your family,

[36:53] right? Do something else. And you want

[36:54] to get there quick. You don't want to

[36:55] wait around going 55 mph. People hate

[36:58] the 55 mph speed limit. And if they're

[37:00] paying for the gas, and most people are

[37:02] paying for their own gas, they ought to

[37:04] be able to burn as much as they want.

[37:05] That's what the market is all about.

[37:07] Next up.

[37:09] >> Hi, this is Lisa from Michigan. With the

[37:11] whole Tom and Katie thing and the

[37:13] Scientology thing, I cannot get

[37:15] Rosemary's baby out of my head. And I

[37:18] truly hope that Katie Holmes does not

[37:20] suffer from postpartum depression

[37:22] because she's going to be in a lot of

[37:24] trouble.

[37:25] >> Well, she won't be able to talk about

[37:26] it. Apparently, under the rules of

[37:27] Scientology, you have to be perfectly

[37:29] quiet. Shh. For the first week after

[37:31] giving birth and even while giving

[37:32] birth. That's a lot to ask, I think, of

[37:34] any birthing mother. But I believe in

[37:36] hope, Lisa. I believe that this child,

[37:38] though apparently supposedly allegedly

[37:40] the product of Tom and Katie, can grow

[37:42] up to be sane and normal and not

[37:44] affiliated with any crypto religion at

[37:45] all. I I believe that this child can do

[37:47] better. Uh so, you know, I'm in favor of

[37:49] there having a child. Just it could be a

[37:51] huge improvement. Let me know what

[37:53] you're thinking. Call anytime. The

[37:54] number 1 1877 T Carlson. That's

[37:56] 877-8227576.

[38:00] Still ahead, look out. The Runaway bride

[38:03] is on the move again. What's she running

[38:05] from this time? We'll tell you when we

[38:07] visit the cutting room floor. We'll be

[38:08] right back.

[38:16] She's a little run away.

[38:20] Daddy,

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[39:02] >> Three climate zones.

[39:03] >> How's he doing back there?

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[39:12] >> He's fine.

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[40:27] The final segment on the final show of

[40:29] the week, the Friday edition of the

[40:30] cutting room floor. Willie Gist is here.

[40:32] Here he is.

[40:32] >> Tucker, I've got some not very breaking

[40:34] news off the top here. Esquire magazine

[40:36] has named it sexiest woman alive.

[40:38] Jessica Beal.

[40:40] >> Never heard of her.

[40:41] >> Seventh Heaven, one of your favorite

[40:42] shows in the WB. She was the star.

[40:44] >> Never heard of it.

[40:44] >> Interestingly, second place Harriet

[40:46] Meyers, which I thought was surprising.

[40:49] >> Well, she's got that going for her,

[40:50] doesn't she? Well, Jennifer Willbanks is

[40:52] on the run again, but this time federal

[40:54] authorities are not trying to track her

[40:56] down. The runway bride is reportedly set

[40:58] to run the Chicago Marathon on Sunday.

[41:00] You might remember that Will Banks

[41:01] skipped out on her wedding in April and

[41:03] concocted the story that she'd been

[41:04] kidnapped. A source with the race says

[41:06] Will Banks is quote a very respectable

[41:08] marathoner and known in running circles

[41:11] throughout the South.

[41:12] >> In fact, known in running circles

[41:13] throughout the country, actually, but

[41:15] not for running.

[41:16] >> Marathon is a cinch for her. She just

[41:18] ran to Albuquerque for God's sake. This

[41:19] is like the 100 meter dash. This is

[41:21] nothing.

[41:21] >> She can't take the Greyhound bus with

[41:22] her this time.

[41:23] >> No, she can't.

[41:24] >> Major disadvantage. Well, fake dog

[41:26] testicles might sound funny to you, but

[41:29] Greg Miller has made a handsome living

[41:30] off of them. Thank you very much. Miller

[41:32] makes the fake testicles for dogs who've

[41:34] been neutered. He says his invention

[41:36] helps dogs regain a natural look and

[41:38] gives them self-esteem. Last night,

[41:40] Miller won Harvard University's Ignable

[41:42] Prize for medicine. The Ignibables are

[41:44] given out for the most creative

[41:45] scientific inventions of the year. Fake

[41:47] dog testicles certainly qualify. I'm

[41:49] totally for this, Willie. You can mock

[41:51] it all you want, but I love dogs and I

[41:53] think it's the right thing to do.

[41:54] >> I agree. Is this America or what? Greg

[41:56] had a dream to be the first man to make

[41:57] fake dog testicles. He saw it through

[42:00] it's Neil Armstrong. It's um it's apple

[42:02] pie. You've got a dream. You've come to

[42:04] the right place. But it doesn't it

[42:06] doesn't address the question of whether

[42:07] you ought to cut them off in the first

[42:08] place. And I say no. I think it's wrong.

[42:09] I'm just against castration in all

[42:10] forms. Period.

[42:11] >> I I'm against castration in my form.

[42:14] >> That's a non-negotiable for me. I don't

[42:15] care. the whole animal kingdom post.

[42:17] Well, a Brazilian psychic says it was

[42:18] his clairvoyance that tipped off the US

[42:21] government to Saddam Hussein's hiding

[42:22] place. Now he wants his money. Jelino

[42:25] Doo has filed a claim in Brazilian court

[42:28] demanding the $25 million reward

[42:30] promised by the US government for

[42:31] information leading to Saddam's capture.

[42:33] Loo says his letters to the State

[42:35] Department describing the tiny bunker

[42:36] where Saddam was eventually caught were

[42:38] totally ignored. I cannot believe that

[42:41] the State Department completely

[42:42] disregarded specific intelligence from a

[42:46] Brazilian palm reader. It's outrageous

[42:48] and there ought to be hearings.

[42:49] >> It's just classic. It's just a classic

[42:51] bureaucratic snafu. The answer right

[42:53] under their nose in the mail room.

[42:54] Totally.

[42:55] >> How many times does this have to happen

[42:56] before we say enough? Wake up, America.

[43:00] >> Well, it's time to crown our nonhuman of

[43:02] the week. And who else could it be but I

[43:04] I the now former smoking chimp. I I

[43:07] began smoking 16 years ago at picking up

[43:09] the unfinished butts of visitors to her

[43:11] Chinese zoo. But this week, the

[43:13] 27-year-old chimp kicked the habit.

[43:15] Instead of smoking, I I now takes

[43:17] morning walks and eats a sensible diet

[43:19] of dumplings and bananas.

[43:21] >> That sounds good. We have to confess,

[43:23] Ter, this is just an excuse to watch

[43:24] video of a chimp smoking. Done that

[43:26] story like three times this week.

[43:28] >> But is she happier and will she gain

[43:30] weight? She'll probably she'll probably

[43:32] put on a little weight, but I think if

[43:33] she inspires one other chimp to quit

[43:35] smoking, it's good for everybody. You

[43:37] know what I mean?

[43:39] >> Our human is a man whose audacity just

[43:41] has to be rewarded. Torbin Hansen is

[43:44] asking the government of Denmark to

[43:45] cover the cost of his prostitutes

[43:47] because he has a disability. Hansen says

[43:49] his disability prevents him from leaving

[43:51] his home to visit brothel, so he has to

[43:53] pay more to have Hooker visit his house.

[43:56] In Denmark, government compensates

[43:57] disabled people for incurred costs as a

[44:00] result of their disabilities.

[44:01] >> Once again, an excuse to roll out the

[44:03] hooker file video, which you're watching

[44:05] right now. Some street walkers from

[44:07] 1973. Apparently,

[44:08] >> I wonder if we have their permission.

[44:09] >> I've had a few days to let this story

[44:11] settle in. And I feel stronger than ever

[44:12] that he should get the hookers paid for

[44:14] >> completely.

[44:15] >> I'm totally for

[44:16] >> if you're going to have a dysfunctional

[44:17] welfare state where everyone kind of

[44:18] stays home, plays video games, and feels

[44:20] bad about themselves and commits suicide

[44:22] at an early age, you might as well

[44:23] subsidize hookers while you're at At

[44:24] least get him some hookers. Exactly.

[44:26] Something to smile about.

[44:27] >> This is the one good thing I've heard

[44:28] about Danish society.

[44:29] >> Willie Gist.

[44:30] >> All right, Tucker. See you Monday.

[44:32] >> That's situation for tonight. Thanks for

[44:33] watching. Have a great weekend. Up next,

[44:35] Countdown with Keith Overberman. See you

[44:37] then.

[44:57] Which of these stories will you be

[44:59] talking about tomorrow? The New York

[45:01] terror threat, day two. One hoax but no

[45:04] attack. Homeland Security still dubious

[45:07] of the threat source, but Mayor

[45:08] Bloomberg says,

[45:09] >> "I think we did take the appropriate

[45:11] action.