NewsNight (CNN) - 2005-10-28

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] new book. Speaking of extraordinary, I

[0:03] had lunch with an extraordinary

[0:04] gentleman today. He's hosting News Night

[0:06] tonight solo. Anderson Cooper is off

[0:08] again. He's Aaron Brown, the man of

[0:11] renown. Have a great weekend. You're off

[0:13] next week. Have a great week off. Have a

[0:15] good time. And you know,

[0:16] >> thank you. Coming under par.

[0:19] >> Thank you. I I hope I am. I expect it'll

[0:21] be an interesting week. Thank you very

[0:22] much. Good evening again, everyone. It

[0:24] began with 16 words uttered by the

[0:26] president about Iraq and nuclear

[0:28] weapons. Only 16 words in a very long

[0:31] speech. It became a battle and a scandal

[0:34] and now perhaps a crime.

[0:39] Vice President Cheny's chief of staff is

[0:41] indicted after two years of secretive

[0:43] digging. The special prosecutor sends

[0:45] shock waves through the Bush White

[0:46] House.

[0:47] >> Special counsel Fitzgerald's

[0:48] investigation

[0:50] and ongoing legal proceedings are

[0:52] serious.

[0:53] >> Suzan Malvo tonight on just how serious.

[0:57] Lewis Scooter Libby described as second

[0:59] only to Carl Rove in the White House

[1:01] inner circle resigned immediately and

[1:03] could face 30 years in prison. Gary

[1:05] Tuckman gets more on the man behind the

[1:07] controversy.

[1:09] President Bush's deputy chief of staff

[1:10] Carl Rove is off the hook. Or is he?

[1:13] >> I will not end the investigation until I

[1:16] can look uh anyone in the eye and tell

[1:18] them that we have carried out our

[1:20] responsibility um sufficiently.

[1:23] >> John King looks at the future of the

[1:24] president's top adviser.

[1:27] And if Libby lied, there's this

[1:29] question. Why? David Ensor on the

[1:31] indictments and how the US justified war

[1:34] with Saddam. This is News Night with

[1:37] Anderson Cooper and Aaron Brown. Live

[1:39] from the CNN broadcast center in New

[1:42] York. Here's Aaron Brown.

[1:44] Good evening. Again, as Larry said,

[1:46] Anderson's off tonight. The story of how

[1:48] we got from uranium in Africa to a

[1:51] reporter in jail to a White House under

[1:53] siege is only half written tonight at

[1:56] best. There are many more chapters to

[1:58] come, many questions to be answered, not

[2:00] the least of which is why, if true, did

[2:03] a smart and incredibly savvy White House

[2:06] insider lie so obviously to

[2:09] investigators and did he do it if he did

[2:11] it to protect his boss, the vice

[2:13] president? There is that and more. But

[2:16] also there is also this the plain and

[2:19] powerful words of a federal prosecutor

[2:20] with a reputation for playing it

[2:23] straight. Laws were broken. He said not

[2:25] technicalities but laws. A full night on

[2:29] this tonight. A full house. CNN's Suzan

[2:32] Malvo at the White House. John King in

[2:35] Washington. David Ensor as well. And we

[2:38] begin with Ms. Malvo. Suzan,

[2:41] >> the cloud that has been hanging over the

[2:42] Bush administration for nearly 2 years

[2:45] from the CIA leak investigation finally

[2:47] broke. Scooter Libby was a trusted

[2:50] member of Mr. Bush's most inner circle.

[2:52] But the fivecount indictment of Vice

[2:54] President Cheny's chief of staff is not

[2:56] the end of the probe.

[2:58] >> I'm going to have a great and a

[3:00] fantastic weekend. Hope you do. Carl

[3:02] Rove, the president's top political

[3:04] adviser, escaped indictment today, but

[3:07] his lawyer, says he remains under

[3:08] investigation.

[3:09] >> I will not end the investigation until I

[3:12] can look uh anyone in the eye and tell

[3:14] them that we have carried out our

[3:16] responsibility um sufficiently.

[3:19] >> A belleaguered Mr. Bush departing for

[3:21] his Camp David retreat tried to soften

[3:23] the blow.

[3:24] >> While we're all saddened by today's

[3:26] news, we remain wholly focused on the

[3:28] many issues and opportunities facing

[3:29] this country.

[3:31] I got a job to do and so do the people

[3:33] who work in the White House.

[3:34] >> White House insiders say they are

[3:36] saddened by Libbyy's departure, but are

[3:38] relieved that Rogue seemed to have been

[3:40] spared. Cheney, who stuck to his

[3:42] schedule of fundraising and rallying

[3:44] Georgia troops, said in a written

[3:46] statement, "He accepted his top

[3:47] lieutenant's resignation with deep

[3:49] regret. Scooter Libby is one of the most

[3:52] capable and talented individuals I have

[3:54] ever known. He has given many years of

[3:56] his life to public service and has

[3:58] served our nation tirelessly and with

[4:00] great distinction. In a statement of his

[4:02] own, Libby said, "I am confident that at

[4:04] the end of this process, I will be

[4:06] completely and totally exonerated.

[4:09] >> I look forward to working with Congress

[4:10] on policies to keep this economy

[4:12] moving."

[4:12] >> For President Bush, the strategy is to

[4:14] pivot towards his political agenda. The

[4:17] question now is, can this White House

[4:19] get that famous first-term focus back?

[4:22] That is the real challenge. Certainly he

[4:24] needs some some fresh blood. He needs to

[4:28] focus on big bold things.

[4:31] >> And Aaron, of course, one of those big

[4:32] things that he is talking about is

[4:34] picking his Supreme Court nominee. We

[4:36] are told by White House aids that could

[4:38] happen within days. Interesting enough,

[4:40] too, the strategy of the White House. We

[4:42] saw two memos that went out to White

[4:44] House staffers uh late in the day. One

[4:47] from a chief of staff Andy Card saying,

[4:49] "Look, your job first and foremost is to

[4:51] serve the American people." The second

[4:53] one from White House counsel which

[4:55] simply said that they should not reach

[4:57] out to Scooter Libby to discuss this

[4:59] case in any way that it is still an

[5:00] ongoing investigation. Aaron

[5:02] >> Suzanne, thank you very much. Suzan

[5:04] Malvo at the White House. This all began

[5:07] as I'm sure you know by now with

[5:08] Ambassador Joe Wilson's trip to Nger

[5:11] back in February of 2002. He had nothing

[5:14] to say on camera when reached at his

[5:16] home today. He did release a statement

[5:18] through his lawyer. It is certainly not

[5:20] a day to celebrate, the statement reads.

[5:23] It goes on to say, "When an indictment

[5:25] is delivered at the front door of the

[5:26] White House, the office of the president

[5:28] is defiled. No citizen can take pleasure

[5:32] from that." Almost from the beginning,

[5:34] this story has been a story and a puzzle

[5:36] with three dimensions: policy and

[5:39] politics, and of course, the law. Before

[5:41] we get any further into all three, here

[5:43] are the charges facing Mr. Libby

[5:45] tonight. Five of them all felonies.

[5:48] Count one, obstruction of justice. It

[5:51] alleges Mr. Libby intentionally deceived

[5:53] the FBI and the grand jury about how he

[5:56] discovered Valerie Plame's status as a

[5:59] covert CIA officer. Count two, false

[6:02] statement, lying to the FBI about

[6:04] whether Miss Pla's status was well

[6:06] known, saying falsely. The indictment

[6:08] alleges that NBC's Tim Russer told him

[6:12] that reporters were well aware of her

[6:14] identity. Count three, false statement,

[6:17] lying to the FBI about the content of a

[6:20] conversation or conversations with Time

[6:23] magazine's Matthew Cooper. Counts four

[6:25] and five relate to the last two, but are

[6:28] classified as perjury instead of simply

[6:31] making false statements because the

[6:33] statements in question were made under

[6:35] oath to a federal grand jury. If

[6:37] convicted of all five counts, Mr. Libby

[6:40] could receive as much as 30 years in

[6:43] prison. How much of this is intended to

[6:46] loosen up his tongue, we simply do not

[6:48] know. Only the prosecutor does, and he's

[6:50] not saying. Patrick Fitzgerald met with

[6:52] the press this afternoon after two years

[6:54] of virtual silence. The questions must

[6:57] have seemed like opening a trip valve on

[6:59] Hoover Dam. As for his answers, he said

[7:02] very little about the inner workings of

[7:04] the investigation. Instead, what made

[7:06] the moment so remarkable was how plainly

[7:10] and how passionately he stated the case.

[7:15] In trying to explain how the disclosure

[7:17] of a CIA agent's name evolved into an

[7:20] investigation that ins snared one of

[7:22] Washington's most powerful men, Patrick

[7:25] Fitzgerald put it in terms he felt most

[7:28] comfortable using, the language of

[7:31] baseball. What would the punishment be?

[7:33] He asked if a pitcher intentionally

[7:37] threw at the head of a batter. And then

[7:39] you'd make a decision as to whether this

[7:40] person should be banned from baseball,

[7:42] whether he should be suspended, whether

[7:44] you should do nothing at all and just

[7:45] say, "Hey, the person threw a bad pitch.

[7:47] Get over it." In this case, it's a lot

[7:49] more serious than baseball. And the

[7:51] damage wasn't to one person. It wasn't

[7:53] to Valerie Wilson. It was done to all of

[7:54] us.

[7:55] >> What he decided, he said, was this.

[7:58] >> This is a very serious matter, and

[8:00] compromising national security

[8:01] information is a very serious matter.

[8:03] But the need to get to the bottom of

[8:05] what happened and whether national

[8:08] security was compromised by

[8:09] inadvertence, by recklessness, by

[8:11] maliciousness is extremely important.

[8:14] >> And this is why.

[8:16] >> And we need to know the truth. And

[8:18] anyone who would go into a grand jury

[8:20] and lie, obstruct, and impede the

[8:22] investigation has committed a serious

[8:24] crime. But if what we allege in the

[8:26] indictment is true, then what is charged

[8:29] is a very, very serious crime that will

[8:31] vindicate the public interest in finding

[8:32] out what happened here. And about

[8:34] forcing Judith Miller of the New York

[8:36] Times to jail,

[8:38] >> no one wanted to have a dispute uh with

[8:41] the New York Times or anyone else. I

[8:43] would have wished nothing better that

[8:45] when the subpoenas were issued in August

[8:46] 2004, witnesses testified then and we

[8:50] would have been here in in October 2004

[8:52] instead of October 2005. No one would

[8:55] have went to jail. I didn't have a

[8:57] vested interest in litigating it. I was

[8:58] not looking for a First Amendment

[9:00] showdown. We didn't bluff people. And

[9:02] what we decided to do was to make sure

[9:03] before we subpoenaed any reporter that

[9:05] we really needed that testimony.

[9:07] >> Testimony he said today that was vital

[9:10] to his case. At the end of the day, what

[9:13] appears is that Mr. Libbyy's story that

[9:15] he was at the tail end of a chain of

[9:17] phone calls, passing on from one

[9:19] reporter what he heard from another was

[9:21] not true. It was false. He was at the

[9:24] beginning of the chain of the phone

[9:25] calls, the first official to disclose

[9:28] this information outside the government

[9:30] to a reporter and that he lied about it

[9:32] afterwards under oath and repeatedly.

[9:36] >> The allegations if Mr. Fitzgerald has

[9:38] said little until now. The political

[9:40] establishment tonight is saying even

[9:43] less. Democratic lawmakers by and large

[9:45] are staying away from the microphones by

[9:47] and large. So did a lot of Republicans.

[9:50] We did manage to get some reaction from

[9:52] Howard Dean who is the chairman of the

[9:54] Democratic Party.

[9:55] >> This is about what happens when you send

[9:57] people to foreign countries to fight

[9:58] without telling America the truth. This

[10:00] whole thing came about because the

[10:02] president wasn't truthful about why we

[10:04] went to Iraq. As for the Republican

[10:06] side, we spoke at some length late this

[10:08] afternoon with John Cenounu, the senator

[10:10] from New Hampshire.

[10:13] Why do you think it people at the vice

[10:18] president's right hand and whether this

[10:20] was criminal or not will be for a jury

[10:22] to decide uh apparently engaged in this

[10:25] effort to u this is my word certainly

[10:28] not yours trash Ambassador Wilson? Well,

[10:32] I think they felt that Ambassador Wilson

[10:34] was a partisan. Uh, and he certainly was

[10:37] politically speaking a partisan. Uh,

[10:40] that he may have had specific motives

[10:43] and goals in mind that were c was

[10:46] certainly counterbalanced by other

[10:48] evidence and other sources of

[10:50] intelligence gathering at the time. Uh,

[10:52] and they felt that there needed to be

[10:54] some sort of a balance out there. That

[10:56] doesn't justify the specific way that

[10:59] they approached it, but I think that was

[11:01] their concern at the time.

[11:03] >> Do you think the vice president, given

[11:05] that an important aid to the vice

[11:08] president, often referred to as this

[11:09] right-hand man, a national security

[11:11] adviser, uh that the vice president

[11:13] needs to answer some questions here? I I

[11:16] don't have access to the material that

[11:17] was presented to the grand jury and and

[11:20] I think uh the defense teams and the

[11:23] prosecution are perfectly capable of

[11:25] deciding who needs to provide

[11:27] information in order to um uh fairly try

[11:31] the case.

[11:31] >> Uh respectfully, uh that's a very narrow

[11:34] legal answer to something whether he

[11:36] needs to testify. And actually uh if I

[11:39] may try the question again, I'm really

[11:41] interested in whether you believe there

[11:43] are questions the vice president needs

[11:45] to answer.

[11:46] >> I think you need to be specific. What

[11:48] kind of a what kind of a question? I

[11:49] think everyone knows what Vice President

[11:51] Cheny's position was on on intelligence

[11:55] on prosecuting the war. Uh certainly

[11:58] people understand and know his

[11:59] relationship to Scooter Libby who served

[12:01] him very well, very capably. So, like if

[12:04] there's a a specific question that you

[12:06] want to pose to the vice president that

[12:08] the media wants to pose to him, yes, you

[12:11] you should ask those questions.

[12:12] >> Well, let me try one then. Sure. Um um

[12:15] would you like to know if the vice

[12:17] president was in any way involved in

[12:20] discussions that led to the outing of

[12:24] Ms. Pla? I think that question's been

[12:27] largely answered uh in the release of

[12:30] the notes of the conversation that he

[12:32] and Scooter Libby had that the

[12:35] apparently by uh what's been reported

[12:38] and what's been presented in the way of

[12:40] information from the grand jury. I guess

[12:42] this was one of the the leaks prior to

[12:44] the indictment. There was a conversation

[12:47] uh between the two of them that did

[12:48] involve um the fact that Joe Wilson's

[12:52] wife was an employee at the CIA. My

[12:54] question was, was he involved in a

[12:56] decision to out her? Was he in any way

[13:00] involved in discussions? Did he say,

[13:02] "Yes, Scooter, that's a heck of an

[13:04] idea." Or, "Don't you dare do that." Or,

[13:06] "What are you thinking? Don't you want

[13:08] to know that?"

[13:10] >> Um, I think that's less important than

[13:13] whether the laws involving the

[13:16] disclosure were violated. And I think

[13:18] this the prosecutor has pursued that

[13:21] question uh fairly effectively. and of

[13:24] course whether people have been

[13:25] forthcoming on the questions of perjury

[13:28] and cooperating with investigators and

[13:30] on that issue he's been very clear that

[13:33] uh he believes the law was violated and

[13:36] that's why he's handed down the

[13:37] indictments.

[13:38] >> Republican Senator John Cenoun, you'd

[13:40] have a hard time knowing it. There is

[13:42] other news to report tonight and we have

[13:44] more on the indictments coming up, but

[13:46] here are some of the other stories we're

[13:47] following at this moment. 45 police

[13:49] officers in New Orleans were fired

[13:51] today. They were let go for allegedly

[13:54] abandoning their post either before or

[13:56] after Katrina hit. 15 other officers

[13:59] have resigned. In California, the mother

[14:02] of a teen accused of killing the wife of

[14:04] a prominent defense attorney has been

[14:06] released from jail. Esther Fielding was

[14:09] charged as an accessory to murder after

[14:11] the fact, but today police decided to

[14:14] drop the charges. Her son, who is 16,

[14:16] will be tried as an adult. Today, the

[14:18] United Nations Security Council

[14:20] condemned recent comments by Iran's

[14:22] president that Israel should be wiped

[14:25] off the map. The Israeli government says

[14:27] Iran's membership in the UN should be

[14:29] revoked because of the harsh words. And

[14:31] a fitting remembrance for Rosa Parks,

[14:34] the mother of the civil rights movement,

[14:35] who died earlier in the week, will lie

[14:38] in honor Sunday and Monday in the

[14:41] capital rotunda of the United States of

[14:43] America. Congress has authorized that

[14:45] right only 29 times in our country's

[14:48] history and Miss Parks is the first

[14:50] woman to ever receive the tribute.

[14:54] Back to the Libby indictment next. This

[14:56] is a story, as we said at the top, with

[14:58] many dimensions and complic

[15:00] complications. It is still by and large

[15:02] a mystery. Ahead tonight, we look more

[15:04] closely at the parts and the pieces and

[15:06] how they fit. And more on Scooter Libby

[15:09] himself, closer to the vice president

[15:11] perhaps than anyone but the president

[15:13] himself. And a closer look at where the

[15:15] case may go from here. We'll talk with

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[18:19] If there's a leak out of my

[18:20] administration, I want to know who it

[18:22] is.

[18:24] Uh, and

[18:26] if the person has violated law, that

[18:28] person will be taken care of.

[18:32] Innocent until proven guilty is a sacred

[18:34] American ideal. But if America's first

[18:37] impression of you comes from the mouth

[18:39] of a special prosecutor, you're pro

[18:41] probably already behind in the battle

[18:43] for public opinion. It may have been

[18:45] some comfort for Scooter Libby to hear

[18:47] the president and the vice president

[18:50] praise him for the work he's done for

[18:52] his country, but the stakes for him are

[18:54] now enormous. He could face up to 30

[18:56] years in prison. So, who is Scooter

[18:59] Libby? Here's CNN's Gary Tuckman.

[19:03] >> Just as George W. Bush relies on Dick

[19:06] Cheney. Dick Cheney has relied on

[19:08] Scooter Libby.

[19:09] >> Scooter Libby, in my view, is the second

[19:12] most powerful uh staff member in the

[19:15] White House, second only to Carl Row.

[19:19] You may not have heard of Libby until

[19:20] the midst of this scandal, but he's been

[19:22] at the center of power in the Bush White

[19:24] House. Libby, who's on crutches because

[19:26] of an injured foot, was educated at Yale

[19:28] and has been in and out of government

[19:30] for decades. He's a lawyer and

[19:32] ironically considering what he's going

[19:34] through was quite skilled at getting

[19:36] people out of legal trouble. Libby and

[19:38] the vice president got acquainted with

[19:39] Cheney was the defense secretary under

[19:41] the first President Bush. By 2000, Libby

[19:44] was one of Cheny's top adviserss and

[19:46] followed him to the White House. Libby

[19:48] was with Cheney on September 11th, 2001

[19:51] and in the days after when the vice

[19:53] president was moved into secure

[19:55] locations in response to the 9/11

[19:57] terrorist attacks. Libby has a

[19:59] wellestablished reputation as an

[20:01] administration hawk.

[20:02] >> Scooter Libby is a formidable uh figure

[20:06] in this administration who's been

[20:08] involved in virtually every critical

[20:13] national security uh decision, including

[20:17] uh the war in Iraq.

[20:20] >> Libby prepared a document that argued

[20:22] the case for going to war against Iraq.

[20:24] a document that reportedly became the

[20:26] basis for Secretary of State Coen

[20:27] Powell's presentation to the United

[20:29] Nations. But there's a very different

[20:31] side to Libby. He authored a novel

[20:33] called The Apprentice, a story of

[20:35] romance and intrigue set in 1903 Japan.

[20:38] It was a book that won praise from

[20:39] literary critics. Libby told a New York

[20:42] Times interviewer when the paperback

[20:43] came out that he occasionally dreams,

[20:45] quote, of just becoming a novelist and

[20:47] sitting on Cree and drinking oddnamed

[20:50] wines. He's got a lot more on his mind

[20:53] now. Gary Tuckman, CNN New York.

[20:57] >> Coming up tonight, a look at the man who

[20:59] was not indicted today. Kyle Rove. Was

[21:02] it just a temporary reprieve or is he

[21:04] off the hook? Also, this is going to

[21:07] sting a little. We'll tell you about

[21:08] some flu shots that weren't. We'll also

[21:12] take a break first from New York. This

[21:15] is News Night.

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[22:24] little problem that I think you as the

[22:25] head of HR need to know about. It's

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[22:28] bye-bye. This gentleman refuses to

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[22:33] He's a troublemaker that needs to be.

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[22:45] >> You're in on it, aren't you?

[22:47] >> Kellogg's Toasted Honey Crunch sounds

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[22:55] >> Hey, isn't Jacobson choking?

[22:58] >> I'd definitely say Jacobson's choking.

[23:00] >> I know exactly what to do. I've seen in

[23:02] the movies. It's called the Heimck

[23:03] maneuver. You make a ball, stand behind

[23:05] the guy, and pull hard. The action on

[23:07] the solar plexus. Let's try the solar

[23:09] plexus.

[23:09] >> Expels the clue.

[23:14] Just like I told you.

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[23:35] >> Katrina. We were there when it hit. When

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[24:26] Quick look down at some of the other

[24:27] stories making news tonight. We go to

[24:29] Atlanta and Erica Hill. Good evening

[24:30] again, Ms. Hill.

[24:32] >> Good evening to you, Aaron. this Friday.

[24:34] Unfortunately, I have to tell you about

[24:35] another storm, tropical storm Beta,

[24:37] causing concern in the western Caribbean

[24:39] tonight. It plowed into the tiny

[24:40] Caribbean island of Providencia today

[24:42] and has its sights set on Nicaragua.

[24:45] Forecasters say the storm could build

[24:47] hurricane strength at any moment. Now, a

[24:50] hurricane warning is in effect for the

[24:52] east coast of Nicaragua and some coastal

[24:54] residents of v some residents of coastal

[24:56] villages that is are being evacuated.

[24:59] Meanwhile, fake flu shots. The FBI says

[25:02] a thousand Exxon Mobile workers in Texas

[25:05] were injected with fake flu vaccine. The

[25:08] owner of the health company hired to

[25:09] administer the shots has been arrested

[25:10] and officially charged with Medicare

[25:12] fraud. Investigators say he gave similar

[25:14] shots to 14 residents of a Texas senior

[25:17] citizens home the next day. Preliminary

[25:19] tests indicate the syringes were filled

[25:20] with purified water. A nurse who helped

[25:22] give the shots blew the whistle. So far,

[25:25] no ill effects have been reported.

[25:28] And a record number of births to

[25:30] unmarried women, 1 and a half million

[25:32] last year. That's according to a new

[25:34] federal study. More than 80% we should

[25:36] point out 80% of teen mothers are

[25:40] unmarried, but actually the number of

[25:41] teen mothers is falling. The biggest

[25:44] increase came among women in their 20s

[25:45] because many of them are unmarried but

[25:47] living with their partners. So of course

[25:49] still count as unwed mothers. And Second

[25:51] City no more. Thousands turned out in

[25:54] Chicago today to celebrate the White

[25:56] Socks victory in the World Series. This

[25:58] is the team's first World Championship

[26:00] since 1917. So, plenty to celebrate.

[26:02] Many fans say they still can't believe

[26:05] it. Some people in Boston probably still

[26:06] can't believe it from last year. And

[26:08] Aaron, I think I checked the correct

[26:09] paper online, I think.

[26:11] >> Yeah.

[26:12] >> Uh and I believe that the weather today

[26:14] called for a celebration.

[26:15] >> Uh it did indeed. And there there was

[26:17] one. And if you go back and look at the

[26:18] tape from, I don't know, last February

[26:20] or March, you'll see that I actually

[26:21] predicted the White Socks would win the

[26:23] World Series.

[26:24] >> I hope you had some money riding on it,

[26:25] my friend.

[26:26] >> I think I predicted that. I might.

[26:28] >> We'll find the tape.

[26:30] >> Thank you. Have a good weekend, too.

[26:31] Thank you. On we go. The grand jury that

[26:34] indicted Scooter Libby today had nothing

[26:36] to say about Carl Rove. Does that mean

[26:39] the president's top political adviser is

[26:41] off the hook? Our chief national

[26:43] correspondent, John King, reports.

[26:47] The day's first clue came in call Ro's

[26:49] driveway.

[26:50] >> I'm going to have a great Friday and a

[26:52] fantastic weekend. Hope you do.

[26:54] >> The Bush White House is in turmoil, but

[26:56] the president's right-hand man is still

[26:58] on the job, though not out of legal

[27:00] jeopardy.

[27:01] >> We either charge someone or we don't

[27:03] talk about them. And

[27:04] >> the prosecutor won't name names, but

[27:06] Rove remains under investigation. His

[27:08] attorney voicing confidence when the

[27:10] special counsel finishes his work, he

[27:12] will conclude that Mr. Rove has done

[27:14] nothing wrong. That issue is Ro's

[27:16] initial failure to disclose to leak

[27:18] investigators a conversation with

[27:19] reporter Matthew Cooper about CIA

[27:21] operative Valerie Plame. Rove contends

[27:24] it was an inadvertent oversight and that

[27:26] he brought it to the prosecutor's

[27:27] attention as soon as he found an email

[27:29] reminding him. Rove friend and former

[27:32] top White House aid calio says those who

[27:34] don't accept Ro's explanation don't

[27:36] understand the pressure of 18-hour a day

[27:38] White House jobs.

[27:40] >> There are a lot of things that I don't

[27:41] remember. But I go through notes

[27:42] sometimes now and say I don't even

[27:43] remember being in the meeting, let

[27:45] alone, you know, having said what I

[27:47] said.

[27:47] >> Ro has from the beginning insisted he

[27:49] broke no laws.

[27:50] >> Say it.

[27:50] >> I didn't know her name and didn't leak

[27:52] her name.

[27:52] >> What is no longer in dispute, though, is

[27:54] that Rove took part in a hard ball white

[27:56] house political campaign to discredit's

[27:59] husband, Ambassador Joe Wilson, when

[28:01] Wilson accused the White House of hyping

[28:03] the case for war in Iraq.

[28:05] >> I think, you know, hard ball comes with

[28:07] politics. Uh, but hard ball doesn't mean

[28:09] being unfair and it doesn't mean doing

[28:10] anything illegal.

[28:12] >> Some Democrats are more than skeptical

[28:13] and note the investigation isn't over.

[28:16] >> It's going to be interesting over the

[28:18] course of the next few weeks and the

[28:19] next few months to find out exactly what

[28:22] Carl Rove uh did know.

[28:24] >> But for now, Ro is on the job and deeply

[28:27] involved in everything, including the

[28:29] urgent new search for a Supreme Court

[28:31] nominee. Well, Carl, as everybody knows,

[28:33] is uh um an excellent adviser to the

[28:37] president and has interests and a docket

[28:40] that is extremely broad.

[28:42] >> That portfolio in the past few weeks has

[28:44] included managing his own campaign to

[28:46] avoid indictment and quietly

[28:47] orchestrating a strategy to get his

[28:49] version of events out of the grand jury

[28:51] room and into the public domain.

[28:55] Now, Carl Rove is not named in the

[28:56] indictment of Scooter Libby by name, but

[28:58] we do know from two sources familiar

[29:00] with the investigation tonight that Carl

[29:02] Rove is indeed the mysterious official A

[29:05] named in this indictment. Official A,

[29:07] the prosecutor says, is a senior

[29:08] administration official who told Scooter

[29:10] Libby before Bob Novak published the

[29:12] column that started all of this, that

[29:14] Novak was about to write that column.

[29:16] That official A, again, we are told, is

[29:18] indeed Carl Rove. Prosecutors using that

[29:20] to debunk Scooter Libbyy's argument that

[29:22] he first learned about this from

[29:24] reporters. But Aaron, tonight, sources

[29:26] close to Rove insist they just have a

[29:28] few more questions to answer. They

[29:29] believe the prosecutor will shut down

[29:31] this investigation within a matter of

[29:32] weeks with no charges, but the

[29:34] investigation is still ongoing. Rove's

[29:36] closest friends telling him, "Be very

[29:38] careful."

[29:39] Does the fact that we can now say that

[29:41] official A is Carl Rove mean he is in

[29:45] any more legal jeopardy, any less legal

[29:47] jeopardy, or if we just put a little

[29:49] more frosting on a cake? It's a little

[29:52] more frosting on a cake. It's

[29:53] essentially cracking one of the

[29:54] mysteries of the indictment. Prosecutor

[29:56] Fitzgerald said today, "If you can't

[29:58] charge them, we don't name them as in

[29:59] this indictment." So, from the road

[30:01] perspective, they're saying this is

[30:02] proof he did nothing wrong. Others say,

[30:04] "Don't rush to that judgment so quickly.

[30:06] The investigation is still open." John,

[30:08] thank you very much. John King in

[30:10] Washington tonight. Coming up, Back to

[30:11] the Future. From what did the president

[30:13] know to swapping arms for hostages to I

[30:17] did not have sex with that woman, Ms.

[30:19] Lewinsky. thumbnails of scandals of our

[30:22] lives because this is News Night.

[30:40] I didn't know her name and didn't leak

[30:41] her name. Uh the this is at the Justice

[30:44] Department. I'm confident that the uh US

[30:47] attorney, the prosecutor who's involved

[30:48] in looking at this is going to do a very

[30:50] thorough job of of doing a very

[30:53] substantial and conclusive uh

[30:54] investigation.

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[33:14] tomorrow. Fashion icon Karolina Herrera

[33:16] on designing for Jackie O. Jackman

[33:18] shares emotional memories of his 50-year

[33:20] friendship with Tony Randall. Plus,

[33:22] music legend Carlos Santana and more.

[33:24] Larry King Live. CNN tomorrow, 9

[33:27] Eastern. American Morning. What happened

[33:30] overnight and what's happening in the

[33:32] day ahead. Real news makes the

[33:35] difference. Solidad O'Brien and Miles

[33:37] O'Brien. American Morning. CNN Monday

[33:40] morning, 7:00 a.m. Eastern.

[33:48] Think about this for a moment. If you

[33:50] are of a certain age, there is a good

[33:52] chance that once upon a time you were

[33:53] taught to and did trust your government.

[33:56] Indeed, we'd like to think that none of

[33:57] us has become so jaded that we never

[34:00] trust our government. But we have been

[34:02] tested in that regard because sometimes

[34:04] our elected officials lie, cheat, steal,

[34:07] or shall we say kiss inappropriately.

[34:10] Today's scandal is just another in a

[34:12] line.

[34:14] >> A few hours ago, a federal grand jury

[34:17] sitting in the District of Columbia

[34:19] returned a five-count indictment against

[34:21] I Lewis Libby counts.

[34:23] >> Special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald

[34:25] today saying words no administration

[34:27] wants to hear that one of its own has

[34:30] been indicted. No administration wants

[34:33] to hear it but more than a few have.

[34:36] Some are about sex, others about money,

[34:38] power, or just plain politics. In 1921,

[34:42] it was Teapot Dome, named for a Wyoming

[34:45] town that was home to US oil reserves.

[34:49] Back then, James B. fall. The Secretary

[34:52] of the Interior under President Harding

[34:54] was indicted for accepting bribes from

[34:57] two oil operators. In return, he leased

[35:00] them oil reserves. Oil reserved for the

[35:04] Navy. Fall spent a year in prison, paid

[35:07] a $100,000 fine.

[35:09] >> I'm not a crook.

[35:10] >> Fast forward to 1972.

[35:12] Nixon was president. Watergate the

[35:15] scandal. It started with what the

[35:17] president's press secretary called a

[35:19] third rate burglary. Five men arrested

[35:22] for breaking into the Democratic

[35:23] National Committee headquarters at the

[35:26] Watergate. You know the rest. Washington

[35:29] Post reporters Woodward and Bernsteed

[35:31] kept digging around uncovered a series

[35:33] of crimes and coverups that reached all

[35:36] the way to the White House. In the end,

[35:39] the burglars and two former White House

[35:41] employees eh Howard Hunt and G. Gordon

[35:43] Litty were convicted of conspiracy,

[35:46] burglary, and wiretapping.

[35:49] Three former White House aids were

[35:50] convicted of hindering the

[35:52] investigation. The president himself was

[35:55] named as a co-conspirator.

[35:57] And on August the 9th, 1974,

[36:00] Richard Nixon resigned just ahead of an

[36:04] impeachment trial.

[36:05] >> I told the American people, I did not

[36:08] trade arms for hostages.

[36:09] >> In the mid 80s, there was Iran Contra.

[36:11] The Reagan administration selling arms,

[36:14] anti-tank missiles to be precise, to

[36:16] Iran in hopes of winning the release for

[36:19] Americans held hostage by Iranianbacked

[36:22] terrorists.

[36:25] Money from the sale was used to fund the

[36:27] Sandinista rebels in Nicaragua, and both

[36:30] actions contradicted US policy. There

[36:34] were congressional hearings, indictments

[36:36] against national security adviser John

[36:38] Po Dexter and one of his aids, Colonel

[36:41] Oliver North. Neither ended up in

[36:43] prison.

[36:44] >> I did not have sexual relations with

[36:48] that woman.

[36:49] >> And then the mid90s there was Monica.

[36:52] President Bill Clinton denied an affair

[36:54] with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

[36:57] Denied it to a national TV audience and

[37:00] unfortunately for him, denied it under

[37:02] oath. He was charged with perjury and

[37:05] obstruction and he was impeached.

[37:08] >> People can debate how big a deal today's

[37:10] indictment is, but consider this. Not

[37:13] since 1875 and President Ulysus Grant

[37:17] has a sitting White House official been

[37:19] indicted. You don't remember Oliver

[37:21] Babcock, of course, but he shares

[37:23] company tonight with Lewis Scooter

[37:26] Libby. So, what's it like to work at a

[37:28] White House in the scandal crisis mode?

[37:30] David Girden has advised both Republican

[37:33] and Democratic presidents, as we seem to

[37:35] say all the time. John Podesta advised

[37:38] Bill Clinton, and Jeff Greenfield often

[37:39] advises me, but that's not why he's here

[37:42] tonight. Uh, gentlemen, let me begin by

[37:45] rolling a piece of tape or having the

[37:46] control room roll one. This is the

[37:48] president this afternoon. Um, kind of

[37:52] look at his face. I'm not sure we've

[37:54] seen him look quite like this or had a

[37:56] day quite like this. Uh, John, what

[38:00] would you guess the president was going

[38:02] through today?

[38:03] >> Today I accepted the resation.

[38:05] >> Well, this was a tough day, Erin, I

[38:07] think, for the president, but he looked

[38:08] like he intended to just tough it out.

[38:10] He didn't look like a guy who intended

[38:12] to change course to clean house. I think

[38:14] he uh looked like uh he was just going

[38:17] to kind of hunker down and try to tough

[38:19] tough tough things out at this point.

[38:21] And David, the importance of looking

[38:23] like you're just you're going to tough

[38:25] it out uh to a president, which they all

[38:27] honestly try and do. They want to get

[38:29] back to the people's business. They

[38:30] always tell us is what?

[38:32] >> Well, let me just say first of all, I

[38:34] knew Oliver Babcock. I worked with

[38:36] Oliver Babcock. The School of Living is

[38:37] no Oliver Babcock.

[38:40] The uh

[38:41] >> Thank you, David.

[38:42] >> Okay. the uh I I think on a day like

[38:46] this with with the importance of the

[38:47] president coming out and toughening it

[38:48] out is exactly what John Podesta said

[38:50] and that is he does not look like he's

[38:53] being very introspective that he's

[38:55] really taking it aboard. In fact, I

[38:56] think there's a certain defiance in this

[38:58] White House. They don't think they've

[39:00] done much wrong. Uh they don't think

[39:02] they made a mistake on Harriet Meers as

[39:03] far as I can tell. They think they she

[39:05] was done in by politics. Uh they don't

[39:07] really think they made much of a mistake

[39:08] here. And so what that suggests is

[39:11] you're not going to see much course

[39:13] correction which I think is quite

[39:14] necessary in fact for them to recover.

[39:16] >> Let me come back to that. But let me

[39:18] draw Jeff in. Um one of the things I've

[39:20] heard a lot today is they've lost

[39:22] control of the agenda. Do you think that

[39:24] the president has lost control of the

[39:26] agenda?

[39:27] >> We're going to find out if he tries to

[39:29] restart his domestic agenda. And I think

[39:31] the one break that they have is that

[39:32] this is an oddnumbered year. Uh, imagine

[39:35] this happening in late October of '04 or

[39:37] next year late October of 06 as people

[39:39] prepare to vote. Um, you know, I I I

[39:42] actually do think that that we live in a

[39:44] time partly because of us that people

[39:46] process this stuff so so quickly that

[39:48] it's entirely possible that by next

[39:50] spring uh he'll be rolling out

[39:52] something. The question is with

[39:54] everybody telling him he's got to change

[39:56] course, you know, crisis has a thousand

[39:58] kvitzers. Uh, is he is he

[40:02] >> Babcock said is he of a is he of a mind

[40:04] to do that? Or as the or as John and

[40:06] David describe, are they saying, you

[40:07] know what, we got here, we got

[40:08] reelected, we got most of our agenda

[40:10] passed in the first years. Just give us

[40:11] a little time. We got our conservative

[40:12] base back because we lanced the Harriet

[40:15] Meyers problem. So, I'm not so sure

[40:16] they've lost control.

[40:17] >> Uh, John, people have said a lot, the

[40:19] president, one way to get the agenda

[40:21] back, if in fact he's lost it, is that

[40:23] you launch big bold ideas. He launched a

[40:26] big bold idea in social security,

[40:29] probably the biggest boldest idea in

[40:31] American politics in a sense given how

[40:33] many people it affects and it fell flat.

[40:36] So what what are the big bold domestic

[40:38] ideas in a country that seems to have

[40:41] growing doubts over the president

[40:43] himself?

[40:44] >> Well, look, social security completely

[40:45] crashed and burned. And you know, when

[40:47] he says, "I want to get back and do my

[40:49] job. I want to get back and and and do

[40:51] the work of the people." It reminds me

[40:53] of what President Clinton said. But it's

[40:55] important to remember when President

[40:56] Clinton was saying that he had a 65% job

[40:59] approval. Right now George Bush has a

[41:01] 38% job approval. So when people hear

[41:03] that that he's going to just go back and

[41:05] do the same thing, I think they say to

[41:07] themselves, "Oh no, uh you know, what is

[41:09] he talking about?" I think that, you

[41:11] know, he hasn't done much about energy.

[41:12] He hasn't done uh anything to really uh

[41:16] deal with the middle class squeeze in

[41:17] this country. He's got a real problem in

[41:19] Iraq. So he's got his hands full. And

[41:22] you know, I think at this point, he's

[41:24] got a team that if if nothing else has

[41:27] their credibility in shreds. You know,

[41:28] the one thing we know that's unassalable

[41:30] is that Carl Rove went out told Scott

[41:32] Mlullen to say he had nothing to do with

[41:34] it. We know that was not true. And uh

[41:36] you know, I think he'd be well advised

[41:38] to clean house, but I don't think he's

[41:39] going to do it.

[41:40] >> David, on the whole house cleaning

[41:42] thing, I mean, to me, it it uh it it

[41:44] almost cuts two ways. Um I I I gather

[41:47] there's some advantage in bringing new

[41:48] blood in and people are tired. It's it's

[41:51] exhausting work. On the other hand, it

[41:52] feels or it can play as desperate.

[41:56] >> It can, but in this case, I think the

[41:59] country would welcome someone like a

[42:00] Fred Fred Thompson, the former senator

[42:02] coming in, someone of stature of the

[42:04] kind of person that Howard Baker came in

[42:07] with Ronald Reagan. here on the

[42:09] substantive side, Aaron, I think he's

[42:10] got this problem that um you when Reagan

[42:13] was there and he was looking for new

[42:15] initiatives after Iran country, he had

[42:16] Gorbachev as a partner and they they

[42:18] went engaged in summits and they got an

[42:20] arms control treaty and that really

[42:22] helped as as as a part of the

[42:24] substantive recovery. With George W.

[42:26] Bush, you know, the next big decision

[42:27] he's got to make is on the Supreme Court

[42:29] and every indication is that he is going

[42:31] to choose a fight that he's going to go

[42:33] to someone who's, you know, who's a

[42:35] strong conservative who may well

[42:37] alienate and arouse the the center and

[42:40] the and the left in the Congress and

[42:41] he'll have a huge fight on his hands if

[42:43] he were to do that. If he can't find a

[42:45] sort of a John Roberts Jr. and maybe

[42:47] McConnell would be that kind of Michael

[42:49] McConnell of of Denver would be that

[42:51] kind of candidate. If he can't find that

[42:52] kind of person and he gets a fight, then

[42:54] I think his capacity to reach out and

[42:56] heal and and and Bill Bridges is is

[42:58] really going to be destroyed for a long

[43:01] time to come.

[43:01] >> Jeeoff, let me give you the last word

[43:03] here. Um, is this a moment uh I don't

[43:05] think the president will call you and

[43:06] ask you for advice, but if he's watching

[43:08] tonight, is this a moment to fight or uh

[43:11] switch in as the old ad went?

[43:14] >> It may be a moment, if I may quote

[43:15] Patrick Fitzgerald, to take a deep

[43:17] breath.

[43:17] >> Uh cuz there is one great advantage that

[43:20] George W. Bush has, which is the other

[43:21] party. One pretty influential Republican

[43:23] said to me this week, you know, the

[43:24] wheels are coming off. We're in trouble.

[43:25] He says, "If the Democrats weren't brain

[43:27] dead, we'd really be in trouble."

[43:28] >> Yeah. So,

[43:29] >> uh Jeff, it's good to see you. David and

[43:32] John, thank you for your time tonight.

[43:33] Appreciate it very much. Coming up, Carl

[43:35] Rove. He's off the hook, at least for

[43:37] now. Is he out of the woods? Our legal

[43:39] analyst, Jeffrey Tubman, joins us to

[43:41] talk about that and some of the other

[43:43] unknowns in all of this. Things we'd

[43:46] like to know. We'll take a break first

[43:48] from New York and around the world. This

[43:50] is News Night.

[44:07] I served 85 days in jail because of my

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[46:37] >> WMD, a major argument for war in Iraq.

[46:41] Now, insiders open up. Don't miss the

[46:44] critically acclaimed CNN presents Dead

[46:46] Wrong. Inside an intelligence meltdown,

[46:49] CNN coming up next.

[47:06] Any notion that anyone might have that

[47:09] there's a different standard for a high

[47:11] official, that this is somehow singling

[47:12] out obstruction of justice of perjury is

[47:14] upside down. If we if these facts are

[47:17] true, if we were to walk away from this

[47:20] and not charge obstruction of justice as

[47:22] perjury, we might as well just hand in

[47:23] our jobs.

[47:28] And that's Scooter Scooter Libby

[47:29] arriving uh at his home. These pictures

[47:32] just in being driven to his home in

[47:35] Mlan, Virginia on what is uh u as he put

[47:38] it, a very sad day for him and his

[47:41] family. He issued a statement saying he

[47:43] expects to be exonerated, but he's uh no

[47:46] doubt got a long and difficult year

[47:48] ahead. His name was James McCor Jr. and

[47:51] for those of you who are Watergate

[47:53] history buffs, old enough to remember,

[47:55] he was the Watergate burglar who first

[47:57] broke facing a long prison term and a

[47:59] tough as nails judge. Mr. McCord spilled

[48:02] the beans, as they say in the bee

[48:04] movies. But will Scooter Libby are there

[48:06] even more beans to spill? Here to take

[48:09] us through some of the knowns and

[48:10] unknowns in the indictment today and the

[48:13] investigation are senior legal analyst

[48:15] Jeffrey Tubin. Um

[48:18] do you think that they'll try and deal

[48:20] with uh Mr. Libby or is he a high enough

[48:23] fish or high enough some animal?

[48:28] >> Um I no I think this case will go to

[48:30] trial. I think if there was a plea

[48:32] bargain to be made it would have been

[48:33] made before indictment. Um he would have

[48:35] come in and plea. I I think the the the

[48:39] chance the time for dealing was before I

[48:42] think this case is going to trial.

[48:43] >> Um I I was in a conversation you may or

[48:46] may not have heard with John Cenounu,

[48:47] the senator, uh earlier and I said,

[48:49] "Yeah, I'd really like to hear from the

[48:51] vice president there. There's a few

[48:52] questions of the vice president. Are

[48:54] there questions you wouldn't mind asking

[48:55] the vice president of the United States

[48:56] about his relationship to this and his

[48:58] right-hand man?"

[48:59] >> Oh, it's astonishing. I mean, you know,

[49:01] President Bush answers questions all the

[49:03] time. I I don't I mean, Vice President

[49:06] Cheney lives in a bubble like no public

[49:09] official I have ever seen. Here he is

[49:11] involved in a very serious criminal

[49:13] case. He has never answered questions on

[49:15] this subject. He barely ever appears in

[49:18] public except reading reading speeches.

[49:21] But, you know, he's been president for

[49:23] five vice president for five years and

[49:25] he's been uh

[49:28] slipped there. It could uh what would

[49:30] you ask him if you could ask him? Uh uh

[49:32] one good one.

[49:34] >> Describe your role in the dis when when

[49:36] did you know about Victoria uh Valerie

[49:41] Wilson Valer Valerie Pla Valerie Pla

[49:43] Wilson's uh

[49:46] >> identity and describe all your

[49:48] conversations with Skooter Libby about

[49:50] that. We we we think we sort of know

[49:52] that he calls George Tenant and gets

[49:54] this information. I forget the date, but

[49:57] don't I I think the thing I want to know

[49:59] is did you say let's go out and trash

[50:01] the guy? I mean, you probably say it

[50:02] more elegantly, but something like that.

[50:04] >> And that's and and that's what is

[50:07] interesting important about his role.

[50:09] His the actions described in the

[50:11] indictment are not improper or illegal.

[50:14] And and it sort of certain makes a

[50:16] certain amount of sense. He says this

[50:18] guy Wilson surfaces in in in the press.

[50:20] He calls the CIA, says, "Who is this

[50:22] guy? What's the story?" And then he

[50:23] tells his uh chief of staff about him.

[50:27] The question though is what did he tell

[50:29] him to do about it? And what does

[50:32] Scooter Liberty think about that?

[50:33] >> Right. I I almost want to apologize to

[50:35] this question because I don't think it's

[50:36] knowable, but I'm going ask it anyways

[50:38] because I want it on the table here.

[50:39] Here you got a guy, Mr. Libby, who is a

[50:41] lawyer. I think Yale educated lawyer.

[50:44] >> Very smart.

[50:45] >> Love Columbia Law School.

[50:46] >> Okay. Very smart guy. In any case, um,

[50:50] he's got to know that there are notes in

[50:52] these conversations. There are records

[50:53] of meetings. Why do you go in front of

[50:56] the grand jury and lie?

[50:57] >> It is unbelievable, isn't it? I I But

[51:00] but in white collar cases, that is

[51:02] almost always the defense, which is

[51:05] >> what I wouldn't be that stupid.

[51:06] >> Yeah, he couldn't be that stupid. It was

[51:08] the defense in the Martha Stewart case.

[51:10] How could she be so stupid? This

[51:11] intelligent woman. You know what? People

[51:13] do stupid things all the time. And that

[51:15] that's usually the prosecutor's

[51:16] response. that a lot of people get

[51:18] convicted. They hope they don't get

[51:19] caught.

[51:20] >> Thank you. You've had a long day.

[51:21] >> It's been a long day.

[51:21] >> I know it has. Thank you very much.

[51:23] Coming up, from failed intelligence to

[51:25] indictments and the war in Iraq, how

[51:27] they all may tie together to lead us to

[51:30] this day and this program, which is News

[51:34] Night.

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[54:32] We learned today that a Marine from Ohio

[54:34] was killed in Iraq on Thursday. Lance

[54:37] Corporal Robert Efield Jr. was 23 years

[54:40] old. As the war continues, so of course

[54:42] do the questions. Today the special

[54:44] counsel Patrick Fitzgerald was asked if

[54:46] the indictment was a vindication that

[54:49] the Bush administration took the country

[54:51] to war on a false premise. This is how

[54:53] he answered.

[54:55] This indictment is not about the war.

[54:57] This indictment is not about the

[54:59] proprietor of the war. And people who

[55:01] sue who who believe firly in the war

[55:03] effort, people who oppose it, people who

[55:04] are have mixed feelings about it should

[55:07] not look to this indictment for any

[55:08] resolution of how they feel or any

[55:10] vindication of how they feel. I think

[55:12] there was a more interesting person

[55:13] today by the way than Mr. Fitzgerald.

[55:15] Democrats disagree with him. They

[55:17] believe the indictment has everything to

[55:19] do with the war, how we got to war.

[55:21] Partisan, yes, but it is part of the

[55:23] national debate. Our national security

[55:25] correspondent, David Ensor, has been

[55:27] doing an incredible amount of work and

[55:29] good work on the intelligence that led

[55:32] up to the war and how it came to be. And

[55:33] David joins us now. David, I think that

[55:36] uh people's perspective on this is, you

[55:39] know, people who are opposed to the war

[55:41] say that it wasn't just that the

[55:43] intelligence was wrong, it's that the

[55:44] intelligence was cooked.

[55:46] >> Yeah.

[55:47] >> Do we know? Can we answer that for them?

[55:50] Um, cooked is probably a little too

[55:53] strong a word. Uh, you know, people in

[55:56] the intelligence community and I, let's

[55:57] be honest, I also thought that Iraq had

[56:01] weapons of mass destruction. They had

[56:03] used them on their own Saddam had used

[56:05] them on his own people. He'd used them

[56:06] against Iran. Uh, there were chemical

[56:08] weapons that were unaccounted for after

[56:10] the war. So, there was lots of good

[56:12] logical reason to think there were

[56:13] weapons of mass destruction there. The

[56:16] amazing thing is there were not. And you

[56:18] know, I've tried to to find out why how

[56:22] this could go so badly wrong, which is

[56:24] part of what I guess we're going to be

[56:25] be showing people in the next hour that

[56:27] this this look at how this could go so

[56:30] badly wrong. But I was also today at

[56:31] that uh press conference uh that you

[56:34] just mentioned, Mr. Fitzgerald's press

[56:36] conference. And there were what was so

[56:38] striking there was there were lots of

[56:40] questions about, well, isn't this really

[56:42] about Iraq? Isn't this really about the

[56:44] the WMD? and he he of course it's in his

[56:47] interest to be as narrow as possible to

[56:49] say no it's just about lying that's all

[56:51] it's about I don't want to go there

[56:53] >> but for most of the people in the

[56:54] country whether they're for or against

[56:56] the war that's what this is really about

[56:58] in political

[56:58] >> terms right at some level this is about

[57:01] Joe Wilson saying I'm not I'm not saying

[57:05] he's right about this I'm just saying

[57:06] what he said is that they took the

[57:08] country to war when they knew the

[57:10] evidence was at least ambiguous and they

[57:12] never framed it in an ambiguous way

[57:14] right? But they did believe there were

[57:16] weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and

[57:18] as I say a lot of people did, myself

[57:20] included. Uh now that turned out to be

[57:22] wrong and that may not have been the

[57:24] real main motivation for going to Iraq

[57:26] in the first place, which is yet another

[57:28] question. Um

[57:30] >> deal

[57:32] um as you mentioned, we'll take a deeper

[57:34] look at this in the hour ahead. Um we

[57:37] appreciate you spending a few minutes

[57:38] with us uh in anticipation of that to

[57:42] sort of set the stage. Thank you very

[57:43] much. My pleasure.

[57:45] >> David Ensor tonight.

[57:48] Uh we'll take a break. We'll continue in

[57:50] a moment.

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[59:31] >> CNN Sunday. Indictments in the CIA leak

[59:34] probe. A Supreme Court nominee steps

[59:36] down. How will the Bush administration

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[59:39] Reid and Judiciary Committee Chairman

[59:41] Arnold Spectre. Join Wolf in late

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[60:07] Well, good evening again. In a moment,

[60:08] CNN presents Dead Wrong. First, here's

[60:11] what's making news at this moment. Vice

[60:13] President Cheny's chief of staff,

[60:15] right-hand man, Scooter Libby, has

[60:16] resigned after being indicted today on

[60:19] charges of lying and obstructing

[60:21] justice. Mr. Libby says he is confident

[60:23] he'll be exonerated. President Bush

[60:26] praised Libbyy's government service and

[60:27] noted, as we all should, that Liby is

[60:29] considered innocent until proven guilty.

[60:32] The vice president accepted Mr. Libbyy's

[60:34] resignation with regret. The grand jury

[60:36] that indicted Libby has been trying to

[60:38] determine who leaked the identity of CIA

[60:41] operative Valerie Pla. This claim's

[60:44] husband, former US Ambassador Joe

[60:46] Wilson, says the case involves charges

[60:48] that quote go to the very heart of our

[60:51] democracy. We look at the questions of

[60:54] how we ended up in Iraq in the CNN

[60:57] presents Dead Wrong, which is