The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour (PBS) - 1992-07-23 - 1 of 2

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Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:02] [music]

[0:05] Good evening. I'm Robert McNeel in New

[0:07] [music] York.

[0:07] >> And I'm Jim Lara in Washington. After

[0:10] our summary of the news this Thursday,

[0:12] we examine anti- police rap music with a

[0:15] Clarence Page setup and a discussion

[0:17] among actor Charlton H, two police

[0:19] officers, and a record company

[0:21] executive. Then, Charlene Hunter G

[0:24] continues her can we all get along

[0:26] conversations. This time with editorial

[0:28] cartoonist Doug Marlet.

[0:32] >> Part of helping the world live and

[0:34] communicate better is keeping it well

[0:36] informed.

[0:39] That's why funding for the McNeel Lair

[0:41] NewsHour is provided by AT&T

[0:46] and by PepsiCo.

[0:53] Pepsico

[0:56] and by the Corporation for Public

[0:57] Broadcasting and viewers like you.

[1:01] >> The US today turned up the heat on Iraq

[1:04] for its continued defiance of United

[1:06] Nations resolutions. The Bush

[1:08] administration has threatened military

[1:09] action to force Iraq to meet its

[1:11] obligations under the Gulf War ceasefire

[1:14] agreement. Joint Chiefs Chairman Colin

[1:16] Powell went to the White House to brief

[1:18] the president. Also at the meeting were

[1:20] Defense Secretary Cheney and National

[1:22] Security Adviser Skraftoft. The US has

[1:25] about three dozen warships in the

[1:26] Mediterranean in relatively close

[1:28] proximity to Iraq. Pentagon officials

[1:31] today cancelled port calls for four of

[1:33] them, including the aircraft carrier

[1:35] Saratoga. The officials refused to say

[1:37] whether the ships had been put on alert.

[1:40] White House spokesman Marlon Fitzwwater

[1:41] said the message Saddam Hussein should

[1:44] get from the ship movements was that he

[1:46] should get in compliance with the UN.

[1:48] The latest standoff began when Iraq

[1:50] refused to let UN weapons inspectors

[1:53] search a government building in Baghdad.

[1:55] Diplomats at the United Nations today

[1:57] said no further security council

[1:59] authorization would be needed for a

[2:01] military strike on Iraq. But the

[2:03] president of the council said this

[2:05] afternoon it had offered Iraq a

[2:06] compromise to break the impass.

[2:09] Democratic presidential candidate Bill

[2:11] Clinton lent his support to military

[2:13] action. He issued a statement saying,

[2:16] "Let Saddam Hussein make no mistake.

[2:18] Even during an election campaign,

[2:20] Americans are united on this issue. We

[2:22] will not tolerate his defiance of UN

[2:24] resolutions."

[2:26] Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz

[2:29] responded defiantly today to threats of

[2:31] force. He said, "Iraq will never abandon

[2:34] its sovereignty, will never accept any

[2:36] insult, and will never allow a UN

[2:38] inspection team to threaten its internal

[2:40] security." Jim, Israel today announced a

[2:44] cut in new housing in the occupied

[2:46] territories. The housing minister said

[2:48] 6,600 units would not be built, but he

[2:51] said more than 10,000 others would. Most

[2:54] of those are already under construction.

[2:56] The announcement drew criticism from

[2:58] Palestinians who want a freeze on all

[3:00] settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.

[3:02] Syria's foreign minister also dismissed

[3:04] any Arab concessions to Israel because

[3:07] of the settlement cuts. Secretary of

[3:09] State Baker was in Syria today. He also

[3:12] made a surprise visit to Lebanon. We

[3:14] have a report narrated by Richard Vaughn

[3:16] of Worldwide Television News. James

[3:20] Baker's trip to Lebanon came out of the

[3:21] blue.

[3:23] 9 years after so many American troops

[3:26] were killed in a suicide car bomb

[3:27] attack, the Secretary of State was

[3:29] flouting an American ban on visits to

[3:31] the country in an ongoing bid to bump

[3:34] stop the faltering Middle East peace

[3:35] talk. The timing was not ideal. My

[3:38] country, Lebanon, only hours earlier,

[3:41] Israeli warplanes had attacked Shiite

[3:43] guerilla hideouts in southern Lebanon,

[3:45] injuring at least four people. It would

[3:48] have brought home to all presence the

[3:50] fundamental need for progress. President

[3:53] IAS Farawi has long been rejecting

[3:55] American demands for him to meet James

[3:57] Baker in a third country. Now it was a

[4:00] case of taking the mountain to Muhammad.

[4:02] But the Secretary of State was not

[4:03] unwelcome. After two hours of what are

[4:06] always described as frank discussions,

[4:08] both Baker and Harawi emerged content

[4:10] with the accord, which seemed to have

[4:12] been struck. And with the American

[4:14] secretary openly optimistic that his

[4:16] six-day peace mission to the Middle East

[4:18] might now have a real chance of success.

[4:21] His talks in Damascus on Wednesday with

[4:23] President Hafes Hassad of Syria had been

[4:26] equally cordial and constructive. The

[4:28] next and last port on his whistle stop

[4:29] tour is to be Saudi Arabia on Friday.

[4:33] The Bush administration today predicted

[4:35] the nation's unemployment rate would

[4:37] drop nearly 1% by the end of the year to

[4:40] 6.9%.

[4:41] The forecast was part of the

[4:43] administration's mid-year economic

[4:45] report released today. It foresees

[4:47] slightly better economic growth and a

[4:49] much smaller budget deficit than

[4:51] estimated by the White House in January.

[4:54] But budget director Richard Darman said

[4:56] the economy would be in better shape if

[4:58] Congress had passed the president's

[4:59] economic proposals. He spoke at a White

[5:02] House briefing this afternoon.

[5:04] >> In a single sentence, the Congress has

[5:07] failed to deliver. There is much

[5:10] posturing about interests in economic

[5:12] growth, investment in the future, crime

[5:15] reduction, health reform, and deficit

[5:17] control. But when it comes to

[5:19] constructive congressional action, on a

[5:22] scale of 0 to 10, the total is closer to

[5:25] zero.

[5:26] >> House Democrats were quick to criticize

[5:28] the economic review. House Budget

[5:30] Committee Chairman Leon Petta called it

[5:32] more of a political document than an

[5:34] accurate analysis of where the economy

[5:36] is going. The number of people applying

[5:39] for firsttime unemployment benefits rose

[5:42] by 19,000 during the second week of

[5:44] July. The Labor Department reported that

[5:46] 422,000

[5:48] people filed claims, up 4.7% from the

[5:51] previous week. Vice President Quail took

[5:55] polit political center stage again

[5:57] today. Last night on CNN, he said he

[6:00] would support his daughter if she became

[6:02] pregnant and decided to have an

[6:04] abortion. He said he hoped that that was

[6:06] a choice she would not make. Quail's

[6:08] daughter, Karine, is 13 years old. This

[6:11] morning, Marilyn Quail said there was no

[6:13] question their daughter would take the

[6:15] child to term if such a situation arose.

[6:18] The vice president later tried to

[6:20] clarify his remarks at a campaign stop

[6:22] in Indiana. He said he would not allow

[6:24] her to have an abortion if she were

[6:26] still a minor.

[6:28] If under current circumstances in a

[6:30] hypothetical situation that she would

[6:31] become pregnant, she would have the

[6:33] child. Uh the question last night was if

[6:35] she's a grown-up, that's an entirely

[6:36] different situation.

[6:38] >> President, you said a minute ago,

[6:39] >> I'm going to I would support her

[6:41] decision if she when she becomes an

[6:44] adult. I would counsel her and encourage

[6:46] her not to to have the abortion, but to

[6:49] bring the child to life.

[6:51] Democratic presidential candidate Bill

[6:53] Clinton said Quail's remarks were a

[6:55] personal matter, but he said it

[6:57] reinforced the Democrat's position that

[6:59] abortion should not be made a crime.

[7:02] Clinton traveled to Houston today to

[7:04] talk about his plans for fighting crime.

[7:06] He criticized President Bush for

[7:08] opposing gun control legislation known

[7:10] as the Brady Bill. He did so before a

[7:13] crowd of police officers and supporters

[7:15] at city hall.

[7:17] I don't see how a president can ask men

[7:19] and women to put on uniforms and risk

[7:22] their lives to keep the rest of us safe

[7:24] if he won't risk a little political

[7:26] capital and take a little heat to ask

[7:28] people to wait five or six days to check

[7:30] their criminal records or their mental

[7:32] health history before they get a gun

[7:34] which can kill a policeman.

[7:37] And it is crazy to believe that we

[7:39] shouldn't at least try to give our

[7:41] police officers a fair fight in the

[7:43] fight to keep our streets safe. That's

[7:45] why I believe we ought to be for the

[7:47] Bradyville and we ought to take the

[7:49] AK-47s and the uzies off the streets in

[7:52] America.

[7:54] >> Clinton promised not to use the crime

[7:56] issue as a divisive campaign tool, but

[7:58] as a theme to unify America.

[8:01] >> In Bosnia, Serbian forces today

[8:04] continued their offensive against

[8:05] several government strongholds in the

[8:07] north of the Republic. In the capital,

[8:09] what had been a relatively quiet day

[8:11] turned deadly when a mortar attack

[8:13] killed at least five people. Two members

[8:16] of a CNN crew were also wounded in a

[8:18] separate attack. The head of the United

[8:21] Nations peacekeeping force in Cambodia

[8:23] today accused the Camair Rouge of

[8:25] conducting a deliberate policy of terror

[8:27] against civilians. The Camair Rouge is

[8:29] one of the four factions which signed a

[8:31] peace accord last October, ending 13

[8:34] years of civil war. The Cime Rouge was

[8:36] responsible for killing as many as a

[8:38] million Cambodians in the 1970s. UN

[8:41] diplomat Yashushi Akashi today charged

[8:44] the Camair Rouge with continued

[8:46] ceasefire violations, including the

[8:48] laying of new landmines and artillery

[8:50] attacks. Peru's Shining Path rebels

[8:54] continued their wave of terror today

[8:56] with more bombings in Lima, the capital.

[8:58] A car bomb exploded on a busy avenue,

[9:01] injuring 10 people. It was one of

[9:03] several attacks during the second day of

[9:04] a general strike called by the Mauist

[9:07] rebel. They had threatened to kill

[9:09] anyone trying to get to work. The search

[9:12] continued today in Colombia for drug

[9:14] baron Pablo Escobar. He escaped

[9:17] yesterday from his hosiendaike jail near

[9:19] Medí. 26 guards at the jail reportedly

[9:23] were arrested for taking orders from

[9:25] Escobar.

[9:27] That's our news summary tonight. Now

[9:29] it's on to violent rap lyrics and humor

[9:32] to ease racial tensions.

[9:43] A piece of rap music called Cop Killer

[9:45] is our lead story tonight. Performed by

[9:48] a singer named Ice Tea. Distributed on

[9:50] an album by the Time Warner Company, it

[9:53] has become the center of a storm over

[9:55] corporate responsibility and the First

[9:57] Amendment. Clarence Page of the Chicago

[9:59] Tribune starts us out with some thoughts

[10:02] about the conflict and its causes.

[10:06] [music]

[10:07] Urban unrest. How do you feel about it?

[10:10] Where you stand depends a lot on where

[10:12] you live. George Bush, who lives in the

[10:14] White House, says the Los Angeles riots

[10:17] resulted from the shock black Los

[10:18] Angeles felt when the Rodney King

[10:20] verdict let them down.

[10:22] >> LA with a shotgun. But listen to rap

[10:26] musicians like former Los Angeles street

[10:28] gang member Ice Te. You hear a different

[10:31] message. It wasn't shock. It was

[10:33] confirmation. It was also the last

[10:36] straw.

[10:38] [music] I got my headlight turned on.

[10:40] I'm shocked. I'm a [music]

[10:44] cop.

[10:47] I'm a killer.

[10:50] >> No. Ice Te says he doesn't want to go

[10:52] out and kill a cop. The lyric is

[10:54] theater. He says, a representation of

[10:56] the frustration felt by many young black

[10:58] males who've been hassled by the cops.

[11:00] >> The enemies on that album are racist

[11:03] people, the KKK,

[11:06] um, parents, no matter what race you

[11:08] are, if you teach racism to your kids,

[11:11] and brutal police. And if those are my

[11:14] enemies, so be it. Another Los Angeles

[11:17] rapper, Ice Cube, stirred up a different

[11:19] controversy for a rap song called Black

[11:22] Korea. Addressed to Korean shop owners,

[11:24] it warned

[11:26] respect to the black and we'll [music]

[11:28] burn your stor.

[11:32] Again, Ice Cube said his lyric was

[11:35] theater, a representation of the anger

[11:37] felt by many black Los Angeles after a

[11:40] Korean merchant fatally shot a black

[11:42] teenager in the back of the head and

[11:44] received no jail time. It's easy to

[11:46] criticize such angry rappers, especially

[11:49] if you're a politician. Dan Quail and 60

[11:51] members of Congress, most of them

[11:53] Republican, called on Time Warner to

[11:55] stop selling Ice Te's cop killer, and

[11:58] President Bush called the lyrics sick. I

[12:01] stand against those

[12:04] who use films or records or television

[12:08] or video games to glorify killing law

[12:12] enforcement officers. It is sick.

[12:15] [applause]

[12:16] >> Their comments followed Bill Clinton's

[12:18] criticism of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow

[12:20] Coalition for giving a forum to assist a

[12:22] soldier, famous for making statements

[12:24] like this.

[12:25] >> So, do you believe there are any good

[12:27] white people? If they are, I haven't met

[12:31] them. We already

[12:33] [music]

[12:36] >> Most rap music is intended only to

[12:38] entertain, like disco in the 70s. But

[12:41] since 1982, [music] when Grandmaster

[12:43] Flash released The Message, rap has

[12:45] given us vivid and often terrifying

[12:48] snapshots of life in the inner city.

[12:50] >> So push [music] me, cuz I'm close to the

[12:54] edge. I'm trying not to lose my head.

[12:59] It's like a jungle sometimes. It makes

[13:01] me wonder how I keep them going under.

[13:04] >> All we are

[13:07] [singing]

[13:12] women.

[13:13] >> Like the protest songs of the 60s, rap

[13:16] music has a compelling message. It also

[13:18] may be an early warning system.

[13:22] Rapper Chuck D of the New York group

[13:24] Public Enemy calls rap Black America's

[13:27] CNN.

[13:30] They have a point, but I wouldn't call

[13:32] it news. Rap is commentary, biting

[13:35] social commentary that gives a voice to

[13:37] the ghetto voiceless.

[13:40] And it's not just black America that's

[13:42] listening to it. Go to any Public Enemy

[13:44] concert, for example, and look around.

[13:46] This proud black group that made Sister

[13:48] Soldier famous draws a very white

[13:51] audience.

[13:53] >> Are they curiosity seekers? Or does rap

[13:56] as a voice of rebellion cross racial

[13:58] lines? Does it have a special appeal to

[14:00] a '90s generation of rebels without a

[14:02] cause? Or as Tom Petty sings, without a

[14:05] clue.

[14:08] Rap fills the need all teens feel to

[14:10] upset their parents. It also offers

[14:12] middle-class whites a tiny but safe

[14:14] little peek into the ghetto, a fantasy

[14:17] ghetto that absolves them from having to

[14:18] deal with the real thing.

[14:23] These Watergate babies are different

[14:25] from their baby boomer parents who knew

[14:27] the hope and sacrifice of the 60s.

[14:29] Today's teens and 20somes know only the

[14:32] scandals and cynicism of the 70s and

[14:34] 80s. They've tuned in in many cases,

[14:37] gotten turned off and dropped out. Which

[14:40] brings up another irony. For all the

[14:42] complaints about radicalism, racism, and

[14:45] misogyny in rap, most rap themes promote

[14:48] conservative values, pro- family,

[14:51] anti-drug, self-help. New York rapper

[14:54] KRS1 calls it edutainment, educational

[14:57] entertainment.

[14:58] >> You had a a rap singer here last night

[15:02] named Sister Soldier. I defend her right

[15:05] to express herself through music,

[15:08] but her comments before and after Los

[15:10] Angeles were filled with a kind of

[15:12] hatred that you do not honor today and

[15:14] tonight. So, Bill Clinton was right to

[15:16] criticize Sister Soldier for imprudent

[15:18] comments. But maybe he was unfair to the

[15:21] Rainbow Coalition for giving her a

[15:22] forum. She was not a major speaker at

[15:25] the event. She was one member of a 15

[15:27] member panel. Her views were questioned,

[15:29] argued, and challenged by many,

[15:31] including Jesse Jackson.

[15:33] >> WE AT WAR. THAT'S WHAT I TOLD YOU.

[15:36] >> The coalition only turned to Sister

[15:37] Soldier in an attempt to reach out to

[15:39] the new angry and turned off generation.

[15:42] It was looking for voices who could help

[15:44] channel the energy, anger, and

[15:46] frustration of young America into

[15:48] peaceful change. And why not? It may

[15:51] shock you, but rap wasn't created to

[15:53] make you feel comfortable. Listen

[15:56] closely, America. Your children are

[15:58] talking to you.

[15:59] >> That's what I told you.

[16:00] >> I'm Clarence Paige.

[16:03] >> Concern over violent rap lyrics is

[16:05] crystallized in demands that Time Warner

[16:07] pull IC Te's Cup killer disc from the

[16:09] market. Actor Charleston Charlton H made

[16:12] that demand at a recent Time Warner

[16:14] shareholders meeting. David Harleston

[16:16] doesn't agree. He's the president of DEF

[16:19] Jam Records, a New York-based record

[16:21] production company whose rap singers

[16:23] include Chuck D and Public Enemy.

[16:26] Charlton H. Why should Time Warner pull

[16:28] the record?

[16:30] >> I've uh urged that action on Time Warner

[16:33] and Mr. Gerald Leven at CEO at the

[16:35] shareholders meeting because I think I

[16:38] blame them more than the IC Tea Group.

[16:40] They are capitalizing uh out of greed in

[16:44] my opinion and publishing a dangerous

[16:47] record. Now when I attacked them and

[16:51] when Gerald Levan defended his company,

[16:55] he perhaps sincerely felt that I te the

[16:59] uh rap musician responsible for the

[17:01] lyrics was honest when he said that he

[17:05] was not speaking for himself. He was not

[17:08] voicing his own views. He was acting out

[17:10] a fantasy uh expressing uh what Mr. 11

[17:14] called fringe opinion.

[17:17] And a lot of people believe that. I uh

[17:20] just today on the NBC Today show, we

[17:25] heard um

[17:27] his statement to the contrary in another

[17:30] video videotaped interview he did on uh

[17:34] on the Arcenio Hall show. He said,

[17:37] "Don't go out and kill no police. It's

[17:39] just a record. There's a lot of good

[17:41] cops out there. I know a lot of police

[17:42] officers that try to do the right thing.

[17:44] All this controversy about me trying to

[17:46] say I'm doing a prejudice record.

[17:48] Prejudge every cop. That's wrong. Okay.

[17:51] This is what he said on videotape in the

[17:54] other interview. Police ain't bleep. I'm

[17:57] going to bleep this. It loses a lot in

[17:59] the translation. Believe me. Use your

[18:01] imagination. The police ain't bleep to

[18:03] me. They never will be. They're Gestapo

[18:05] organization. Till you start taking them

[18:07] cops down out there in the street. Then

[18:09] y'all are really still bleeping in the

[18:11] wind. When brothers get ready to do

[18:13] that, I'll be right in the front. You

[18:15] know what I'm saying? But [ __ ] ain't

[18:16] ready to smoke no pig. I personally

[18:19] would like to blow some bleeping police

[18:21] stations up. If it was up to me, I would

[18:22] burn the White House down. You know, I'm

[18:24] an anarchist. I'm ready to do this

[18:26] bleep. Some people got to die, though.

[18:29] If you ain't ready to spill no blood,

[18:31] then go on out of here. You know what

[18:32] I'm saying? I think uh Mr. Lean now has

[18:36] to abandon his defense of that is a

[18:39] artistic commentary. I think uh there

[18:42] are in fact federal laws against uh

[18:46] advocating let alone undertaking assault

[18:48] on a federal or state officer.

[18:51] >> Mr. uh let me ask David Harleston as the

[18:54] uh president of a record company which

[18:56] uh deals with many of these artists. Why

[18:58] do you disagree with Mr. H? Why should

[19:00] Time Warner not pull this record?

[19:03] >> There are several reasons. um for Time

[19:05] Warner to to submit uh to public

[19:09] pressure um pressure that uh is clearly

[19:13] opposed to an artistic expression.

[19:16] >> You call that an artistic expression,

[19:18] sir?

[19:18] >> An expression.

[19:19] >> What I read,

[19:19] >> Mr. H. Just let him make his case and

[19:22] then I'll come back to you.

[19:23] >> Yeah.

[19:24] >> An expression that is born of anger,

[19:26] that is born of frustration, and

[19:28] contrary to what I think Mr. H was

[19:31] suggesting um does not call for the the

[19:35] murder of cops um I think is really the

[19:37] end of of of free expression in this

[19:39] country as we know it. Um I think um

[19:42] you've got to distinguish Mr. H between

[19:44] um what you've reported to have heard IC

[19:46] tea iced tea state on I think you said

[19:48] the Arsenio Hall show um and on and and

[19:50] and the lyrics of the of the song

[19:52] itself.

[19:53] >> No on NBC show I'm sorry NBC. Uh the

[19:56] question I think that that or the issue

[19:59] that that that you and others who

[20:01] support the boycott have have put on the

[20:03] table is um Time Warner or any record

[20:06] company I I I think you're suggesting um

[20:08] ought not to distribute um records which

[20:12] call for the killing of cops. Not only

[20:15] um in my view does this does this record

[20:17] um which for the record is not it's not

[20:19] a rap record, it's a heavy metal record.

[20:21] Um, not only does it not call for for

[20:23] the killing of cops, um, it is quite

[20:25] clear, and ICT has has expounded on this

[20:27] in numerous other interviews, it's quite

[20:28] clear it's it's a song about anger. It's

[20:30] a song about frustration. Um, there is

[20:32] some clear cathartic benefit to the

[20:34] song. Um, and the notion that by not

[20:37] getting or not letting the song get to

[20:40] the public, um, get to music listeners,

[20:43] get to an audience, um, somehow that

[20:45] frustration or anger, um, can be ignored

[20:47] or will go away, I think is ludicrous.

[20:50] Um, and I think because that is where

[20:52] this boycott is coming from, um, it is

[20:54] an extraordinarily misplaced intention.

[20:56] >> Mr. H, you dismiss then the, uh, the

[21:00] quote of, uh, of the rap singer on the

[21:03] NBC show today. You you just you say

[21:05] that didn't happen.

[21:06] >> I don't dismiss.

[21:07] >> That's his own opinion. That's what he

[21:08] said. And and that's precisely my point

[21:10] that if you're talking about the song,

[21:14] then let's talk about the song and let's

[21:16] talk about whether Time Warner ought to

[21:18] be ought to to cease distribution of the

[21:21] record embodying the song. What ICT says

[21:24] on a a television program or a radio

[21:26] interview um or writes in an article of

[21:28] his own um I don't think has anything to

[21:31] do with the Time Warner boycott or the

[21:33] argument that you seem to be making

[21:35] about distribution of

[21:37] >> this. Mr. H said earlier that there are

[21:40] laws against incitement to killing state

[21:42] or federal officials. Do you think this

[21:44] record is an incitement to excitable

[21:48] young people, black, white, anything

[21:50] else who might hear it and want to and

[21:51] because of their rage or whatever go and

[21:53] kill a cop? Do you think it's an

[21:54] incitement to kill cops?

[21:56] >> Absolutely not. And moreover to suggest

[21:57] that it is I think is insulting uh to

[22:00] listeners of ICT and music listeners

[22:01] generally. There is in my mind no more

[22:04] likelihood that a music listener um of

[22:07] of the the song uh cop killer um is

[22:10] going to go out and kill a cop than

[22:12] there is the likelihood that that

[22:13] singing the battle hymns of public is

[22:15] going to lead to to international war.

[22:17] Um it it demeanes the listeners of music

[22:21] rap music and of pop music include that

[22:23] they're unable to distinguish between

[22:25] art and action.

[22:26] >> And Mr. H, you clearly think that they

[22:29] can't distinguish between art and action

[22:30] in this case and that it is an ins an

[22:32] incitement.

[22:34] >> Let me shift the argument a bit, sir.

[22:36] Uh, if you're comfortable with the

[22:38] lyrics about killing cops, which are

[22:40] quite specific, uh, if we had time, I

[22:43] would read them, but I can't.

[22:44] >> We showed them in our piece. We had them

[22:46] on the Let me suggest another thing. Uh,

[22:50] homosexuals and Jews are targets of

[22:53] violence as well. sometimes murderous

[22:55] violence though not as frequently as

[22:57] police officers. Uh, let me ask you,

[23:00] sir, if the title of this song, Cop

[23:05] Killer, in the album, were [ __ ] Killer

[23:09] and the lyrics

[23:11] said die

[23:14] [ __ ] die, would you be as comfortable

[23:16] about the Time Warner distributing the

[23:18] record? Would you?

[23:19] >> If if you're asking would I would I

[23:21] support distribution of the record

[23:23] notwithstanding those lyrics, the answer

[23:25] is yes. Um, let's not forget that um,

[23:28] Jews and homosexuals and blacks and a

[23:31] whole host of other insular minorities

[23:33] in America have historically been the

[23:36] target of defamatory and negative lyrics

[23:39] and song. Curiously, curiously, no one

[23:41] has called for a boycott of those kinds

[23:44] of of of of artists or those kinds of

[23:47] lyrics. My answer is yes. And and I

[23:49] encourage everyone to remember history

[23:51] as it is.

[23:52] >> Let me ask you, uh, Mr. Harleston, what

[23:54] kind of scrutiny or monitoring does do

[23:58] record companies like yours and in this

[24:00] case the Time Warner the company that

[24:02] Time Warner on publishes ICT, what kind

[24:05] of scrutiny of lyrics do you do? Do you

[24:07] just pass anything that the musician

[24:09] hands in? Do you have any criteria for

[24:13] uh eliminating some lyrics and passing

[24:15] others?

[24:16] >> Well, we we don't have a criteria a

[24:18] contentbased criteria for for

[24:20] eliminating some lyrics or or or

[24:22] permitting others. Um and and again I

[24:24] can only

[24:24] >> You do screen them. You have a procedure

[24:26] for screening them?

[24:26] >> No, we don't have a procedure for

[24:28] screening lyrics at all. Um we evaluate

[24:30] the development of an artist's music

[24:32] from the moment they walk into the

[24:33] studio until the album is finished. Um

[24:36] the judgments that are made um by uh our

[24:39] ANR department u by the owner of the

[24:41] company um by anyone else involved in

[24:43] the process is is this good music? Is

[24:45] the artist being true to the artist

[24:48] vision as we understood that vision when

[24:50] we signed the

[24:51] >> So do I understand you correctly? You

[24:52] would never say to a rap artist or a

[24:54] rock artist, you can't use this publish

[24:57] this lyric on our by our recording

[24:59] company, we object to this line or that.

[25:01] You would never say that.

[25:02] >> That's correct.

[25:02] >> Yeah. What do you think about that, Mr.

[25:04] Hston? Well, I know that in fact Time

[25:06] Warner, despite their protestations of

[25:08] their determination to defend creative

[25:10] freedom, pre-ensored the cover of Cop

[25:14] Killer, which originally showed Ice Tea

[25:17] standing with a gun over a prostrate

[25:19] police officer and insisted, Time Warner

[25:22] insisted on changing the original title

[25:24] of the whole album, which was uh

[25:27] copiller to uh body uh bag.

[25:33] And let me shift to another argument.

[25:35] I'm I'm interested in Do you do you

[25:38] think that record companies should uh

[25:41] censor if that's the word or edit the

[25:43] lyrics they publish?

[25:44] >> You know, censorship is uh if you refuse

[25:47] to publish something, not you're not

[25:49] saying the the artist cannot do it.

[25:51] You're saying I don't want to market

[25:53] this. Now, if if this gentleman is

[25:55] saying that he exercises no choice

[25:58] whatever, I find that specious. Every

[26:01] company rejects, alters, uh, amends the

[26:05] content of every record, every movie.

[26:07] I've been doing this all my life. I know

[26:09] very well the degree to which every

[26:11] company takes a hand in the creative

[26:15] content of the

[26:16] >> What do you What do you say since that

[26:18] isn't the case here? What do you say,

[26:19] uh, Mr. H, about Mr. Harlson's argument?

[26:22] Um, and Clarence Page referred to it in

[26:25] his piece setting this up that uh there

[26:28] is actually a value in these violent

[26:31] seeming rap lyrics because they're an

[26:34] expression culture expression of the

[26:36] anger and the and the frustration of

[26:40] people in uh the ghettos. There's a

[26:43] great deal of carries on in the

[26:45] university about what they call uh hate

[26:48] speech uh and that seems to be uh

[26:51] directed in the other uh avenue. Uh let

[26:55] me try another thing.

[26:57] >> So you don't see a valuable therapeutic

[26:59] quality to this? I just like to get your

[27:01] response to that.

[27:02] >> No, I don't think so. I don't think

[27:04] society has any responsibility to allow

[27:09] uh this kind of expression of opinion.

[27:12] This is not this has nothing to do with

[27:13] creative expression. We've already

[27:15] established that this is in fact his

[27:18] opinion. This is his wish. He has said

[27:21] as much.

[27:22] >> Why do you feel it is valuable and

[27:24] therapeutic?

[27:24] >> Um it's valuable for a whole host of

[27:26] reasons. Not the least of which being

[27:28] that we are here uh on television

[27:31] discussing a very important issue and

[27:33] that is rage and anger in a community

[27:36] that has been ignored and

[27:38] disenfranchised since the beginning of

[27:40] this country. Ice Tea is singing up is

[27:43] rapping in this particular song or or

[27:44] has written lyrics.

[27:46] >> He says it isn't rap. Incidentally, he

[27:48] says people only call it rap because

[27:49] it's black. It's actually rock hard.

[27:53] He's absolutely correct.

[27:54] >> And the point

[27:56] >> somebody defined rap as music for people

[27:58] who can't sing.

[28:00] >> Okay. Anyway,

[28:01] >> the point that I'm trying to make um is

[28:03] that ICE Tea is conveying to this

[28:07] country um whether we want to hear it or

[28:11] not that we are in trouble. Our cities

[28:14] are in trouble. Our our citizens are in

[28:18] trouble. And anybody who has been

[28:20] subject to something like police

[28:22] brutality, um, brutality brought about

[28:25] on account of the victim's race, um,

[28:28] knows about that anger. And for those of

[28:31] us who have not been subject to it, we

[28:33] need to know about it because it is it

[28:36] is it is hurting people. It is it is

[28:38] diminishing the values of their lives

[28:41] and it's something that at the very

[28:43] least we need to talk about and at most

[28:45] do something about.

[28:46] >> Mr. husband.

[28:47] >> I think you have perhaps uh revealed

[28:50] your opinion. Whether or not it's Mr. uh

[28:53] Levin's, I can't say. You seem to be

[28:56] saying that you uh approve of this, that

[29:00] you advocate it, that you think it is a

[29:02] position that should be supported and

[29:04] encouraged.

[29:06] Uh I think America does not agree with

[29:08] you, sir.

[29:09] >> Excuse me, let me be very clear. um

[29:11] you've you've you've completely

[29:13] misstated and and I believe missed uh

[29:15] the point of my of my statement. What I

[29:18] said was it is crucial that this country

[29:21] understand here recognize what is wrong

[29:25] with this country. That's what I record

[29:27] is all about. Now your suggestion that

[29:29] that that I'm I'm not sure what you

[29:30] suggested that I that I advocated. I've

[29:32] stated that to my mind there's nothing

[29:34] in this song that advocates copilling.

[29:36] So So I object to to your suggestion

[29:38] that that I believe that.

[29:40] >> Mr. H, let me ask you something. Ice Tea

[29:42] said in another interview, he's given a

[29:44] lot of interviews. He said in another

[29:46] interview, and this goes to your

[29:47] business, the movies, Arnold

[29:49] Schwarzenegger blew away dozens of cops

[29:51] as the Terminator, but I don't hear

[29:53] anybody complaining about that. Do you

[29:55] think there's something different in the

[29:56] two forms? Arnold Schwarzenegger was

[29:59] playing a robot and he has never

[30:02] supported the idea that he should go

[30:03] around or that anyone should go around

[30:05] killing policemen as Ice Te just did in

[30:08] the interview I read as aired on NBC

[30:11] today. Let me let me shift to another

[30:13] cut that may uh

[30:14] >> I'm afraid I'm afraid we've come to the

[30:16] end of our time. I'd like to hear your

[30:18] other idea, but that is that is the end

[30:20] of our um end of our time. Do you have

[30:23] do you have a final comment comment on

[30:25] that? Uh, only

[30:26] >> what's the difference between movies and

[30:27] the draft records?

[30:28] >> Uh, well, I'm not sure what the

[30:30] difference is. I I must say I'm somewhat

[30:31] surprised to to hear Mr. H speak in

[30:34] support of contraction of the the the

[30:37] mix of ideas in this country. Um, being

[30:39] an individual who who is is an artist

[30:41] himself.

[30:42] >> We have to leave it there. Mr. Harleston

[30:44] and Charlton H, thank you very much for

[30:46] joining us.

[30:51] >> [music]

[30:57] >> Next tonight, the strangle hold drugs

[30:59] and gorillas have on Peru. Fatal

[31:02] bombings and a two-day general strike

[31:04] called by Mauist Shining Path gorillas

[31:06] have brought a reign of terror to the

[31:08] country and the hardline government of

[31:10] Alberto Fujimari can't seem to stop

[31:13] them. The rebels speed off Peru's vast

[31:16] illicit drug trade. It's estimated the

[31:18] country produces twothirds of the

[31:20] world's supply of cocaine. Much of the

[31:22] raw cocoa is grown in the Hayya Valley.

[31:26] Correspondent Elizabeth Farnsworth

[31:27] visited the area and filed this report.

[31:37] East of the high peaks of the Andes lies

[31:39] the Wyaga River Valley. A vast,

[31:42] sparssely populated area five times

[31:44] larger than the country of El Salvador.

[31:47] The Wii Yaga's great expansive green is

[31:50] broken by small villages like Chanel or

[31:53] Llamas that look peaceful and lovely in

[31:55] the afternoon sunshine.

[31:57] But just beyond are the bushes that

[31:59] provide the leaf for twothirds of the

[32:01] world's crack and cocaine.

[32:05] In recent years, this valley has become

[32:08] a war zone where drug traffickers, the

[32:10] military, the police, and two leftist

[32:13] guerilla groups fight for power. 10,000

[32:16] people have died here since the mid1

[32:18] 1980s.

[32:19] The Mauist Shining Path, Peru's largest,

[32:22] most ruthless guerilla organization,

[32:25] controls much of the southern part of

[32:26] the valley. It even dominates the area

[32:29] around the US funded Santa Lucia base,

[32:32] which houses a unit of special counter

[32:34] narcotics police and about 30 advisers

[32:37] from the US Drug Enforcement

[32:38] Administration.

[32:40] A second gorilla group, the Tupacamu

[32:43] Revolutionary Movement or MRTA, is

[32:46] fighting for control of the northern

[32:48] half of the valley around the city of

[32:50] Tarapoto.

[32:53] A local cameraman filmed this

[32:55] confrontation between guerrillas and the

[32:57] army along a key stretch of highway

[32:59] outside Tarapoto. The MRTA was showing

[33:02] its strength and harassing the military.

[33:05] After a few hours of combat, soldiers

[33:07] moved in and the gorillas faded back

[33:10] into the hills.

[33:13] As we arrived in Tatapoto, soldiers were

[33:15] patrolling the streets because the

[33:17] gorillas had called a general strike.

[33:19] They were threatening to kill anyone who

[33:21] defied them. A few shops closed, but

[33:24] most vendors refused to be intimidated.

[33:27] This man was about to open his stall in

[33:29] the central market.

[33:34] We can't go along with something that's

[33:37] called by armed guerrillas. We don't

[33:39] agree with them. We're always looking

[33:42] for peace and a way for our families to

[33:44] survive.

[33:49] >> Survival is tough in Tarapoto. People

[33:52] here are often caught between the

[33:53] military, the gorillas, and the drug

[33:55] traffickers.

[34:00] Every day the violence grows. We are

[34:03] living in a very insecure situation. It

[34:06] seems untrue, a lie. There is no

[34:08] security. There is no tranquility.

[34:14] >> Mario Gonzalez came to the Wyaga as a

[34:17] school teacher 18 years ago. He has

[34:20] watched the valley change as cocoa

[34:21] became the main crop. One of his schools

[34:24] was in Llamas, a village just outside

[34:26] Tarapoto.

[34:31] Five years ago, I worked here in Lamas

[34:33] as director of a teachers college. It

[34:36] was the first institute of higher

[34:38] education in this village. I was founder

[34:41] and director and in that period Damas

[34:44] was one of the most tranquil villages in

[34:46] the state. But then the indiscriminate

[34:49] planting of Koka began and the first

[34:51] gorilla groups arrived.

[34:55] Behind these little hills, there used to

[34:57] be corn. There used to be beans. Corn,

[35:00] beans, and pineapple. Now it's all

[35:02] cocoa.

[35:05] Everyone knows it, but it's not against

[35:07] the law to plant cocoa in Peru. So, they

[35:09] just leave it alone.

[35:12] And today we have Alamas abandoned by

[35:14] the forces of the states and won over by

[35:16] subversion. The tranquility is only on

[35:19] the surface.

[35:22] Llamas

[35:24] is a key stronghold of the MRTA. And as

[35:27] we walked through the village, Mario

[35:29] lamented the fact that many of his best

[35:31] students have become either gorillas or

[35:33] cocoa farmers.

[35:38] >> The young will join the MRTA because

[35:41] they have nowhere to work. There are no

[35:44] jobs. There are no agricultural credits

[35:47] for alternate crops. One alternative is

[35:50] to be a teacher. But in the countryside,

[35:52] a teacher makes very little money. So

[35:55] even teachers are planting cocoa with

[35:57] the help of their students fathers.

[36:01] >> On route to other villages where Mario

[36:03] had taught school, our car was the only

[36:05] vehicle on the road. Because of the

[36:08] strike, travelers stayed home to avoid

[36:10] the wrath of the gorillas. We had

[36:12] planned to hike into the cocoa fields,

[36:14] but with the army and the gorillas out

[36:16] in force, it was impossible. We found

[36:19] cocoa farmers in their villages, also

[36:21] trying to avoid trouble.

[36:28] >> In Chanel, a cocoa farmer told us he

[36:31] would prefer to grow corn, but there is

[36:33] no market and the price is too low.

[36:36] Price supports for alternate crops would

[36:38] be one solution, Mario says. But the

[36:41] government of President Alberto Fuimorei

[36:43] in its embrace of the free market has

[36:45] dropped price supports for corn and

[36:47] other crops.

[36:50] This video shot for Peruvian television

[36:52] shows how farmers grow the cocoa leaf

[36:54] and process it into paste using their

[36:57] feet to mix the leaves with kerosene and

[36:59] other chemicals. Traffickers ship the

[37:02] paste from clandestine landing strips to

[37:04] Colombia for processing into crack or

[37:06] cocaine.

[37:11] When President Alberto Fuimorti

[37:13] suspended the Constitution and disbanded

[37:16] Congress on April 5th, he argued that

[37:18] the extreme measures were necessary to

[37:20] combat the drug traffickers and

[37:22] gerillas.

[37:25] But so far, not much has changed in the

[37:27] Wyaga. Peruvian police and their US

[37:30] advisers from the DEA continue to

[37:33] dynamite landing strips and to burn

[37:35] remote laboratories.

[37:37] But within days of uprooting plants,

[37:40] destroying a landing strip, or burning a

[37:42] lab, new ones appear deeper in the

[37:45] jungle.

[37:49] The acts of war, the destruction of the

[37:52] plants, the attempts to eliminate the

[37:54] bands of drug traffickers and the

[37:55] gerillas have failed to produce any

[37:58] results. After five or six years of

[38:01] applying this policy, the cultivation of

[38:03] koka has increased, not decreased.

[38:07] General Eduardo Beivo commands all the

[38:10] forces which are fighting the drug and

[38:12] guerilla wars in the Wyaga. He said the

[38:15] shining path and the MRTA are formidable

[38:18] enemies because they get millions of

[38:20] dollars a year from the drug traffic.

[38:26] For each flight of coca from here they

[38:30] get between 12,000 and $15,000.

[38:34] And this finances their food and pays

[38:36] them an average of $400 to $500 a month

[38:40] as if they were mercenaries of the

[38:42] revolution.

[38:44] A functionary with many years of working

[38:47] for the state doesn't earn that much. A

[38:50] mercenary of the guerillas earns much

[38:52] more than a general of the army. As in

[38:55] my case,

[39:02] the guerillas have better pay, better

[39:05] equipment, good radios, and they can buy

[39:08] good arms.

[39:13] >> Peruvian conscripts, on the other hand,

[39:15] are poorly paid and equipped. And for

[39:17] the entire Wyaga, the military has fewer

[39:20] than 10 helicopters.

[39:22] General Beeo admitted that the lack of

[39:24] resources leaves the military and police

[39:26] open to corruption. But even with all

[39:29] the difficulties, he said he was having

[39:31] some success.

[39:34] He let us speak with a Shining Path

[39:36] gorilla who had given herself up and was

[39:38] providing useful intelligence to the

[39:40] army. She was nervous and insisted on

[39:43] wearing a mask for the interview.

[39:45] >> In private, she told us she was not

[39:47] being mistreated. She is only 15 years

[39:50] old.

[39:56] I joined up and I spent five months with

[39:59] the shining path. After two months, they

[40:02] gave me the rank of military compan.

[40:09] A company is led by three commanders,

[40:12] military, political and logistical.

[40:15] I had children from seven years up under

[40:18] my command.

[40:21] combatants.

[40:22] >> They were combatants. They're the

[40:24] children of people organized by the

[40:26] party and they have to join the guerilla

[40:29] army.

[40:35] They can't rebel. They can't flee to an

[40:38] army base and tell all because of their

[40:40] families. If the children tell anything,

[40:43] their families suffer.

[40:47] Both sides in this war caused their

[40:50] share of suffering. The army is accused

[40:52] of taking prisoners and then making them

[40:54] disappear.

[40:56] As we left the base, our car was

[40:58] surrounded by people whose relatives had

[41:00] been taken from their homes at night by

[41:02] the army.

[41:06] We're in a state of emergency here and

[41:08] there are no innocents. It's lucky we

[41:11] found you. You need to know what's

[41:13] happening. My brother isn't guilty. So

[41:16] why are they keeping him at the bay so

[41:19] long? We can't say anything. We know

[41:22] prisoners are