The O'Reilly Factor (FNC) - 2001-12-20
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:00] The Camp
[0:00] >> [music]
[0:00] >> TV. Right back here tomorrow
[0:02] for more hunting for the killers.
[0:12] >> [music]
[0:12] >> The O'Reilly Factor is on tonight. The
[0:14] signs were there, but the Clinton
[0:15] administration backed away from
[0:17] aggressive action against terrorists.
[0:19] We'll tell you why. And why is President
[0:22] Bush using executive privilege to block
[0:23] Congress from getting information about
[0:25] Mr. Clinton's fundraising and an FBI
[0:27] murder scandal? Also, a top secret
[0:30] anthrax project in Ohio has drawn the
[0:32] attention of the FBI. We'll fill you in.
[0:35] Caution, you're about to enter a no spin
[0:37] zone. That begins in 90 seconds.
[0:50] Fox News Live, I'm Kiran Chetry. The
[0:52] Pentagon may be sending more Marines to
[0:54] search for Osama bin Laden in the caves
[0:56] of Tora Bora. Meanwhile, one of the
[0:58] translators who worked on the Osama bin
[1:00] Laden tape says that a more detailed
[1:02] transcript reveals bin Laden actually
[1:04] mentions some of the September 11th
[1:06] hijackers by name. The Pentagon is not
[1:09] commenting on that new translation.
[1:12] 100 days after the September 11th
[1:14] attacks, President Bush is once again
[1:16] targeting terrorist cash flow. The
[1:18] president says he'll cut the financial
[1:20] resources of two more groups he says
[1:22] support terrorist activities. One is a
[1:25] separatist group from Kashmir, the other
[1:27] a Pakistani charity said to have been
[1:29] helping Osama bin Laden in his bid to
[1:32] get nuclear weapons.
[1:34] We made the first indictment against the
[1:36] terrorists,
[1:37] those murderers of September the 11th.
[1:41] We and our coalition have done much in
[1:42] the past 100 days.
[1:44] With the help of freedom-loving
[1:46] countries around the world,
[1:48] we will do much more
[1:50] to rid the world of evil
[1:52] and of terrorists.
[1:55] The The House also saying it may be a
[1:57] week or more before President Bush
[1:58] decides exactly how to tackle the issue
[2:01] of American Taliban fighter John Walker.
[2:03] Mr. Bush says he must hear
[2:04] recommendations before ruling on his
[2:07] fate. That is our update. We'll be back
[2:09] again for you coming up at the bottom of
[2:10] the hour here on Fox.
[2:16] >> [music]
[2:20] >> Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly. Thanks for
[2:21] watching. It's tonight an excellent
[2:23] investigative report in the Washington
[2:25] Post today about President Clinton's
[2:26] policy toward terrorists. That is the
[2:28] subject in this evening's talking points
[2:30] memo.
[2:31] Mr. Clinton told me a couple of weeks
[2:33] ago that he believes he did all he could
[2:35] to combat the threat caused by Osama bin
[2:37] Laden and other terrorists. And indeed,
[2:38] Mr. Clinton almost doubled the amount of
[2:40] money spent on gathering information
[2:41] about terrorists. But according to the
[2:43] post, when it came time for concrete
[2:45] action against terrorist networks, the
[2:46] Clinton administration shied away. The
[2:49] Treasury Department, for example,
[2:50] declined to track bin Laden's money,
[2:52] citing privacy concerns, if you can
[2:54] believe it. And once again, Janet Reno's
[2:56] incredible incompetence hurt the nation.
[2:58] As Attorney General, she ordered the FBI
[2:59] not to investigate American charities
[3:02] that funnel money to the terrorists for
[3:04] fear that such an investigation would be
[3:05] seen as profiling Islamic charities.
[3:10] Once again, political correctness
[3:11] damages the country. This talking
[3:13] points, as mentioned before, the
[3:14] incredibly dumb Torricelli principle
[3:16] that prevented CIA station chiefs from
[3:18] paying shady informers was okayed by
[3:21] President Clinton, and that gutted
[3:22] America's street intelligence. All in
[3:24] all, while the Clinton administration
[3:26] recognized the threat caused by bin
[3:27] Laden and other fanatics and was keeping
[3:29] an eye on them, there was no sense of
[3:31] urgency.
[3:32] Clinton Assistant Secretary of State for
[3:34] Counterterrorism Michael Sheehan is
[3:36] quoted by the post as saying, "It has to
[3:38] be said that it was a collective
[3:39] judgment of the American people, not the
[3:42] Clinton administration, that the impact
[3:44] of terrorism was at a level that was
[3:46] acceptable." Well, after reading that,
[3:48] we immediately called Mr. Sheehan, who
[3:50] declined our invitation to appear. And I
[3:51] think I know why. That is one of the
[3:53] most brainless statements I have ever
[3:55] heard of in my life. The American people
[3:58] are at fault here? Hold it. We don't
[4:01] have top secret information. We can't
[4:03] monitor what the terrorists are doing,
[4:05] and we elect leaders who are supposed to
[4:07] protect us. With all due respect, Mr.
[4:09] Sheehan and the other counterterrorism
[4:11] experts, including President Clinton,
[4:13] are at fault here. They didn't protect
[4:15] America aggressively enough. Period. We
[4:19] were attacked several times in the
[4:20] Clinton administration, handled it as a
[4:22] police action, not a national security
[4:25] situation. President was distracted, of
[4:27] course, by the Lewinsky situation, and
[4:29] was primarily interested in protecting
[4:31] the surging economy. A showdown with
[4:33] Muslim nations would have been very bad
[4:34] for business.
[4:35] In the end, nobody could have predicted
[4:37] 9/11, and nobody is directly at fault.
[4:40] But our government is being strangled by
[4:41] politically correct thought and a
[4:43] general malaise towards solving
[4:45] problems.
[4:46] Many politicians are far more interested
[4:48] in themselves and their power
[4:50] than doing right by us.
[4:51] That's our memo. Now for the top story
[4:53] tonight, evaluating the failure to
[4:54] confront bin Laden and other fanatical
[4:56] thugs. Joining us now from Washington is
[4:58] Ambassador Dennis Ross, a Middle East
[5:00] envoy under President Clinton and
[5:01] current analyst with the Washington
[5:02] Institute for Near East Policy, and
[5:04] Charles Duelfer, a foreign analyst for
[5:07] the Center for Strategic and
[5:08] International Studies.
[5:10] Mr. Ambassador, what say you about the
[5:12] Post piece?
[5:13] Well, I think the Post piece is an
[5:15] extraordinary piece of investigative
[5:17] journalism, and I think it does reveal a
[5:18] lot of the facts that people have not
[5:20] known, and I have to tell you, including
[5:21] myself.
[5:22] Many things there that I did not know.
[5:24] Like what?
[5:26] Well, for example, I had no idea that we
[5:27] had inserted people on into the
[5:30] Afghanistan on the ground. I had no idea
[5:32] we put a couple of subs on station. I
[5:34] had no idea that we had, in fact, done a
[5:36] finding so that we could have gone after
[5:38] bin Laden, and that we were developing
[5:39] military options to carry that out.
[5:42] I did have an idea about the
[5:43] difficulties in terms of money, because
[5:45] I I have to tell you that from my own
[5:46] standpoint, I had wanted to find ways to
[5:48] choke off money to Hamas and I found
[5:50] that very difficult and I found that the
[5:52] post piece basically reaffirming that.
[5:54] >> Now, why did you find it difficult to
[5:55] choke off money to Hamas, which is a
[5:57] terrorist organization in Palestine? Uh
[5:59] the simple reason was the standard of
[6:01] evidence that I was being told that was
[6:03] required
[6:04] >> By who? by the Treasury Department, but
[6:06] also by the Justice Department didn't
[6:07] allow us to do that.
[6:09] >> Janet Reno, correct?
[6:10] >> Well, both, but not just not just
[6:12] Justice Department, but also the
[6:12] Treasury Department. In each case, I
[6:15] >> the Treasury Department didn't want any
[6:16] part of that, which is uh outrageous.
[6:19] Mr. Elfer, what do you think?
[6:21] Well, you got to understand, I think one
[6:22] of the things that is that comes out of
[6:23] that piece is there was a change in
[6:25] thinking going on. And as you said at
[6:27] the top, uh there was a key thing which
[6:29] was going on. There was a lot of bombs
[6:31] going off and we had to come to a
[6:32] conclusion that retaliation wasn't the
[6:34] way to go anymore. We couldn't give up
[6:36] the first punch. And I think some of the
[6:38] experts actually, you know, hit on that
[6:39] and said, "We've got to think about
[6:40] preemption. We've got to think about
[6:42] getting these guys before they get us."
[6:44] Now, how far up the food chain that got,
[6:46] uh I'm not so sure. I think the top of
[6:48] the food chain
[6:48] >> Yeah, ask it. It had Look, you had four
[6:51] incidents. You had Saudi Arabia where
[6:52] they killed uh some of our military
[6:54] people. You had the embassy bombings in
[6:55] Africa. And by the way, I just want to
[6:57] tell everybody because I didn't know
[6:58] this, the only dissenting voice to uh
[7:02] retaliatory strikes um
[7:05] after the embassies were bombed in
[7:06] Africa, the only one who said no to the
[7:09] uh cruises that they sent to Afghanistan
[7:11] to try to get bin Laden was Janet Reno.
[7:13] Janet Reno is the only one.
[7:15] >> I mean, this woman, what a disaster.
[7:16] But, go ahead. I mean, you had the four
[7:18] you had the four attacks and then you
[7:20] had the call. President Clinton had to
[7:22] know that these guys were active, that
[7:24] they were training. We knew that from
[7:25] our satellite intelligence and that they
[7:27] were obviously threats. He had to know.
[7:29] Yeah, this was a problem that they were
[7:31] managing. It's not a problem they were
[7:32] trying to solve. Again, if you're going
[7:34] to go about preempting, that's a new way
[7:36] of thinking. You've really got to lead.
[7:38] You've got to convince people that's the
[7:39] right thing to do. Uh people
[7:41] >> he do it? Why didn't the President
[7:42] Clinton
[7:42] >> Well, it appears there's other things on
[7:44] his agenda. There's a lot of domestic
[7:45] affairs issues, of course.
[7:47] All right. Now, Mr. Ambassador, Michael
[7:49] Scheuer saying it's the American
[7:51] public's fault because we didn't have an
[7:53] outcry to get Bin Laden and these
[7:55] people. You're reacting to that
[7:56] statement.
[7:57] Well, I don't think that's a statement
[7:59] that makes a lot of sense. I mean, the
[8:00] fact is if the president was going to
[8:03] try to do what we we are now doing,
[8:06] you would have had to change the
[8:07] context. Obviously, the context had to
[8:09] be different. The reality is that
[8:11] President Bush prior to September 11th
[8:13] was also not acting. The context changed
[8:15] with September 11th. What President
[8:17] Clinton did do was issue a finding that
[8:20] allowed us to go after Bin Laden. What
[8:22] he didn't do was prepare the American
[8:24] public for what might have to be the
[8:26] kind of military action that we're
[8:28] seeing today.
[8:28] >> sell it because it's hard to sell. It
[8:31] was very hard and I will give President
[8:32] Clinton this. I didn't think he was a
[8:34] strong leader from the word go. I think
[8:36] he managed the economy fine, but I
[8:37] didn't think President Clinton was a
[8:38] strong leader.
[8:39] But
[8:40] pre-9/11, Mr. Delfer, it was almost
[8:43] impossible to rally the world to go
[8:46] after Bin Laden.
[8:48] I mean, the world didn't care even
[8:49] though they was doing these little
[8:50] bombings and this and that. I mean, they
[8:52] hurt us, but they didn't hurt them, so
[8:54] they didn't care.
[8:55] I'm not sure that's right. I think, you
[8:56] know, it depends on how you play these
[8:58] issues. I mean, you know, the World
[8:59] Trade Center was bombed once before.
[9:01] They were blowing up embassies and our
[9:02] reaction was to, you know, build bigger
[9:04] walls. I think if we took a different
[9:06] approach at the top and led strongly on
[9:08] that, it might have had a different
[9:10] outcome. You really believe the world
[9:11] would have done that? I would have
[9:12] rallied to our cause cuz I don't. I
[9:14] don't I think I think Clinton said,
[9:16] "Look, the economy's great. I don't want
[9:18] to get in a big brawl with the world. We
[9:19] need the oil. Let's just contain it."
[9:22] Mr. Ambassador.
[9:24] I I do think you have a point. I think
[9:25] the critical thing here is having an
[9:28] event that creates such drama that it
[9:29] captures everybody's attention and makes
[9:32] everybody realize that they are
[9:33] threatened. Unfortunately, the previous
[9:35] episodes, the previous events did not do
[9:38] that. It's a sad commentary, but
[9:40] unfortunately you have to see something
[9:41] that has such drama, such moments that
[9:43] that's the way you can get it.
[9:44] >> It's a selfish world. I'm going to give
[9:45] you the last word, Mr. Delfer, but I
[9:47] listen, I want a stronger leadership. I
[9:49] think Mr. Sheehan is outrageous to blame
[9:51] it on us. I want strong, honest
[9:53] leadership, but I think most politicians
[9:55] are timid. They don't want to rock the
[9:57] boat in any way. Give you the last word.
[9:59] Well, I think you got to pick your
[10:00] issues and if you can sell out
[10:02] short-term interest for long-term
[10:04] interest, uh that's the price you're
[10:06] going to pay. Do you think President
[10:07] Clinton knew that this was going to be a
[10:09] burgeoning threat after he got out of
[10:11] office?
[10:12] I think he knew it was going to grow,
[10:13] but he had to pick his issues. And I
[10:14] think he you know, he put a lot of
[10:15] effort into the peace process with the
[10:17] Israelis and the Palestinians. Did quite
[10:18] well there, almost got a deal, but he
[10:20] just picked that issue and
[10:22] >> to differ. I don't think he did quite
[10:23] well and I think the present day in
[10:25] Palestine shows that. Gentlemen, thank
[10:27] you very much. We appreciate your
[10:28] expertise. Next on the rundown, a top
[10:30] secret anthrax project in Ohio. We'll
[10:33] tell you about it when we come back.
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[12:43] In the Unsolved Problems segment
[12:44] tonight, the anthrax mystery continues.
[12:46] According to ABC News, the FBI believes
[12:48] the anthrax that has killed five
[12:50] Americans has developed in the USA, and
[12:53] the feds have questioned some American
[12:54] scientists involved with top-secret
[12:56] anthrax projects. Joining us now from
[12:58] Boston is Jean Gilman, the senior fellow
[13:01] at the Massachusetts Institute of
[13:03] Technology, and the author of the book
[13:04] Anthrax: The Investigation of a Deadly
[13:07] Outbreak. Mr. Gilman, um you know, uh
[13:10] this comes as a complete shock to me. I
[13:11] didn't know there was any anthrax secret
[13:13] project in Ohio, and I guess there are
[13:14] other places in the country as well.
[13:16] Tell us about it. Well, there are five
[13:18] places at least that we know of. One of
[13:20] them is over in the United Kingdom at a
[13:22] place called Porton Down. Uh the other
[13:24] four are here in the United States, and
[13:27] it's to those four places
[13:29] um that the FBI has tracked this very
[13:32] highly weaponized anthrax that we're all
[13:34] very concerned about.
[13:35] >> so the FBI has indeed tracked it to
[13:38] these research centers. So there's no
[13:40] possibility that Al-Qaeda could have,
[13:43] you know, funneled it up and brought it
[13:44] in. We live in a world where anything is
[13:46] possible. We could wake up tomorrow and
[13:48] find out maybe somebody has it over in
[13:50] Afghanistan. I you know, I'm I'm never
[13:53] surprised by anything anymore. But I
[13:54] think the the line of investigation
[13:56] right now
[13:57] has led back to the US Army led to
[14:01] Dugway, Utah in particular and now to
[14:04] Battelle which is a corporation which
[14:06] was
[14:07] under contract with the CIA to do work
[14:10] with this again highly weaponized
[14:12] >> so the FBI has been interviewing
[14:14] disgruntled scientists and people who
[14:16] had maybe a grudge against the USA.
[14:19] That's their tact right now.
[14:20] >> That's their profile. That's the profile
[14:22] that they established early on.
[14:24] You have to understand, you know, we've
[14:25] been on this since about October 5th
[14:28] when the first victim died in Florida.
[14:29] So it's been a long and and grueling
[14:32] path. But they they fairly early on came
[14:34] on with the idea that this was somebody
[14:35] disgruntled.
[14:37] You know, it it
[14:38] the attacks themselves, the postal
[14:40] attacks look a lot like the hoaxes. You
[14:43] know, there've been thousands and
[14:44] thousands of hoaxes.
[14:46] And the postal attacks look like the
[14:47] hoaxes and everybody believes that when
[14:49] you look at the profile of the people
[14:51] who do the hoaxes that these are really
[14:53] disgruntled people with a lot of anger
[14:56] and they want to work anonymously and
[14:58] they But if you have a mad scientist out
[15:01] there, I mean that's really frightening.
[15:02] I mean somebody who knows how to make
[15:03] this stuff up and has got maybe a cache
[15:05] of it and and can strike at anytime.
[15:07] See, I felt in the beginning that it
[15:08] wasn't Al-Qaeda operation because of the
[15:10] timing of it.
[15:11] >> Right. The timing of it looked very
[15:13] suspicious. The Florida Mocao looked
[15:15] very suspicious.
[15:16] It doesn't seem to be playing out that
[15:19] way.
[15:20] But it's not necessarily true that this
[15:22] person
[15:23] uh is making it in his garage or
[15:25] something like that. It it it would be
[15:27] much more likely that somebody would
[15:28] have taken it from a laboratory
[15:30] >> Sure. where it had been developed.
[15:32] >> And stored it somewhere just uh and
[15:34] could wreak havoc whenever he or she
[15:35] wanted to.
[15:36] >> Exactly. Exactly.
[15:37] >> are we messing with the anthrax to begin
[15:39] with? Why do we have these top secret uh
[15:41] places where they're making it?
[15:43] Well, it all goes back to the investment
[15:45] that the United States made in
[15:47] biological weapons uh at the during
[15:49] World War II and then for the next 20
[15:51] years or so uh we took this terrible
[15:53] disease anthrax and really perfected it
[15:56] as a weapon. But in 1969 uh Richard
[15:59] Nixon renounced biological weapons. That
[16:01] is offensive biological weapons
[16:04] research. But one of the things we've
[16:06] held on to is called defensive
[16:08] biological weapons work, which means
[16:10] that we claim the right to have um
[16:14] secret programs which will help us test
[16:17] uh masks or vaccines or other kinds of
[16:20] protective equipment and so forth.
[16:21] >> Against Yeah, against something
[16:23] somebody. Now, do you believe Saddam
[16:24] Hussein has the anthrax and all this
[16:25] other business over there? Well, I think
[16:27] that's a really important question and I
[16:29] know there are people who know much more
[16:30] about it than I do who feel that he has
[16:32] probably developed it. Yeah. Okay. So,
[16:34] but in your opinion, I mean, you're
[16:36] being modest, but you're one of the
[16:37] world's experts on this. Do you believe
[16:39] that he has the stuff? I think there's
[16:41] nothing to keep him from having it.
[16:43] We have no way of getting in there. We
[16:45] have no restraints on that person. Uh we
[16:47] also have no restraints on anybody now
[16:50] uh and developing nations that would
[16:51] want to get into biological weapons. And
[16:54] unfortunately, these anthrax attacks
[16:55] have given a very good demonstration of
[16:57] how disruptive and destructive they are.
[17:00] >> they are. But it isn't easy to develop
[17:02] anthrax, is it?
[17:03] It's not that easy, but relative to
[17:05] nuclear weapons, it's uh it's more easy
[17:07] than developing nuclear weapons for
[17:09] certain. Yeah.
[17:10] >> All right, Ms. Gillen, thanks very much.
[17:11] We appreciate it. Thank you. Directly
[17:13] ahead, conservative Congressman Dan
[17:14] Burton and liberal Congressman Barney
[17:16] Frank actually agree on something.
[17:19] President Bush should not be protecting
[17:21] the FBI and Bill Clinton by using
[17:22] executive privilege. A report coming
[17:24] your way next, but first, a special
[17:26] hello to our servicemen around the world
[17:28] watching us on the Armed Forces Network.
[17:34] Merry Christmas, Dad. We love you and we
[17:35] miss you. We can't wait to see you.
[17:38] I love you, Dad. I love you. I love you,
[17:41] Dad. I love you.
[17:42] >> [crying]
[17:42] >> I love you, Dad.
[17:44] I love you.
[17:46] Merry Christmas, Dad. I hope you have a
[17:47] fun holiday.
[17:49] See you soon. All right. Bye. We love
[17:51] you. Bye. We love you.
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[20:11] The Impact segment tonight, it's not
[20:12] often you get Dan Burton and Barney
[20:14] Frank to agree on anything, but both
[20:15] congressmen are angry. The President
[20:17] Bush has used executive privilege to
[20:18] block a congressional review of
[20:20] documents relating to President
[20:21] Clinton's fundraising tactics and an FBI
[20:24] scandal in Boston. Most of you know
[20:26] about the fundraising. The Boston story
[20:27] concerns two FBI informants who were
[20:29] allowed to commit terrible crimes while
[20:31] on the federal payroll. Joining us now
[20:32] from Washington is Congressman Barney
[20:34] Frank of Massachusetts. To fill uh
[20:36] people in on the bad guys, I mean,
[20:37] Whitey Bulger, notorious in New England
[20:39] and Boston for being a killer, an adult
[20:41] dealer, and everything else. And uh
[20:43] Flemy, the Rifleman, another assassin.
[20:46] Um are you as angry as uh as uh
[20:49] Congressman Burton that uh President
[20:51] Clinton's not going to uh President Bush
[20:52] is not going to let us get to the bottom
[20:53] of this?
[20:54] I am. I admire Dan Burton's non-partisan
[20:57] commitment in this. And it's
[20:58] particularly troublesome at this point,
[21:00] though, because as you know, we've just
[21:02] been debating the need, given the mass
[21:04] murders that we were victimized by, to
[21:06] give the FBI more powers and I think
[21:08] every American feels a little
[21:09] conflicted. You want we need to be
[21:11] protected. And we are giving the FBI and
[21:13] we have given the FBI significant new
[21:15] powers of surveillance over individuals,
[21:17] the ability to monitor the internet to
[21:20] do more surveillance on phones. And what
[21:22] you would hope would be that at the same
[21:24] time that you gave them the more powers,
[21:26] you could have a high degree of
[21:27] confidence in how they were they were
[21:28] using them. Unfortunately,
[21:30] there are series of things that have
[21:32] come out which show the FBI making
[21:34] terrible mistakes. And you know, no
[21:36] institution of human beings going to be
[21:37] perfect, but what the FBI seems to be
[21:40] arguing is that they're almost uniquely
[21:43] immune from any kind of supervision. And
[21:45] they they somehow got the president to
[21:47] buy into this. I I would have hoped that
[21:49] maybe this is because he is
[21:50] understandably preoccupied with with the
[21:52] Afghanistan situation, but he signed a
[21:54] sweeping order which basically
[21:56] interferes with our ability to find out
[21:58] about really outrageous decisions the
[22:00] FBI made 10 and 15 and 20 years ago.
[22:03] >> And here's how outrageous it was. A man
[22:04] named Joseph Salvati spent 30 years in
[22:07] prison for murder he did not commit in
[22:09] Boston. And the FBI knew he was
[22:11] innocent. They knew he was innocent. And
[22:13] they would not give the evidence up to
[22:16] free this man. He's sitting in jail
[22:18] because they didn't want to burn Bulger
[22:20] and Fleming who were informing on the
[22:23] mafia, the New England mafia, the
[22:25] Patriarca family of
[22:28] of Providence, Rhode Island. That's
[22:30] that's what Fleming and Bulger were
[22:31] doing for the FBI. So they let this guy
[22:33] rot in jail for 30 years. That's
[22:34] outrageous. It is. And and there were
[22:37] other examples of this where
[22:38] we have one case where this one just
[22:40] particularly renewed my sense of of just
[22:43] frustrated anger. A man was killed
[22:46] almost certainly by Bulger and Fleming.
[22:48] It may have been that the FBI tipped
[22:49] them off. It had to do with with gun
[22:50] running for the IRA, the Irish
[22:52] Republican Army. And this guy may have
[22:55] thought he was helping law enforcement
[22:56] by giving a tip about Bulger and
[22:58] Fleming. Instead, the FBI told Bulger
[23:00] and Fleming apparently, that's the
[23:02] allegation, and and they killed them.
[23:03] >> Yeah. And now it's come out.
[23:05] >> FBI could be implicated in murder
[23:07] itself, right? Exactly. And the the
[23:09] man's widow and family have now sued the
[23:11] federal government and said, "Look, you
[23:13] you caused my husband to be killed." The
[23:16] FBI got the Justice Department to give
[23:17] the most incredible answer. You know
[23:18] what the answer is? You can't sue us
[23:20] because it's too late. This happened too
[23:22] long ago, and your time to bring suit
[23:24] has passed. But they couldn't have
[23:25] brought suit because the FBI was
[23:27] refusing to give them the information.
[23:28] >> Yeah, they didn't know.
[23:29] >> The FBI had to be forced to give the
[23:30] information. Now they got you with the
[23:32] information.
[23:32] >> question that that that New England FBI
[23:34] scandal is a disgrace. But now we go
[23:37] into President Clinton, who you, you
[23:38] know, obviously had a fairly close
[23:40] relationship with and and supported.
[23:43] He
[23:44] his fundraising tactics, dubious at
[23:46] best. The Burton committee wanted to see
[23:49] the emails, they wanted to see, you
[23:50] know, who called in, the the commerce
[23:53] back and forth. And President Bush has
[23:55] shot all that down. And, you know, I
[23:58] think Americans are going to wait a
[23:59] minute here. We want an honest
[24:00] government. We don't want one powerful
[24:02] person protecting another.
[24:04] I'll tell you what what strikes me, uh
[24:06] and I think all this information ought
[24:08] to be be brought forward. I thought some
[24:09] of it ought to have been brought forward
[24:10] under Clinton.
[24:11] I've run into this before. I ran into it
[24:13] with Clinton about George Bush
[24:16] previously, and now Bush about Clinton.
[24:18] The bureaucracy kind of gets together,
[24:21] and they persuade presidents that it's
[24:22] in their interest to protect the
[24:24] mistakes of former presidents.
[24:26] >> One of the things that President Bush
[24:27] has now done, which is again outraged
[24:29] Dan Burton and me and and a lot of
[24:31] others. We passed a law that said, "The
[24:32] rule will be after 12 years you release
[24:35] presidential documents unless they're in
[24:36] some specific category of, you know,
[24:38] national security, etc." President Bush
[24:41] is now, I think, clearly violating that
[24:42] statute by saying, "No, we're not going
[24:44] to release that information." And again,
[24:47] it just has a
[24:48] there is this let's all in the
[24:50] bureaucracy protect each other.
[24:52] >> protect each other. But the Marc Rich
[24:55] part is involved in this President
[24:57] Clinton fundraising deal. Because that's
[25:00] part of what Burton wanted to do. See
[25:02] how much money flowed in to President
[25:04] Clinton and his wife from the rich
[25:07] people of friends and what.
[25:09] >> there was one one issue there where they
[25:10] might have a problem and that is as you
[25:12] probably know there was a grand jury now
[25:13] looking into the Mark Rich situation.
[25:15] >> pardon is true. Where there's an ongoing
[25:17] grand jury, then there may be reason for
[25:19] us not to not go after it, but
[25:22] temporarily withhold. Congress made a
[25:24] mistake a few years ago for example with
[25:25] Don of the North and others. Congress
[25:27] tried to run an investigation
[25:28] simultaneously with a prosecution and
[25:30] the court correctly wound up saying,
[25:32] "Look, you interfered with these
[25:33] people's constitutional rights. You
[25:35] can't do that. You got to have them done
[25:36] sequentially." But I I want to stress
[25:38] again, brother, we're not just doing
[25:40] this as you know because we're kind of
[25:42] interested in in in in finding things
[25:44] out. We are in the process of giving law
[25:46] enforcement in America much more power.
[25:49] We have to do that in our own
[25:50] self-defense. But it is very scary to be
[25:53] told that you have to give them more
[25:54] power. But you cannot have any oversight
[25:57] over them.
[25:57] >> hold them accountable for what they do.
[25:59] >> Yes, they can't hold them accountable.
[26:00] Listen. You make them more powerful and
[26:02] less accountable at the same time.
[26:03] >> All right, Congressman. Hey, this is the
[26:04] first time I think you and me and Dan
[26:06] Burton have ever agreed on anything.
[26:07] Well, we'll have to get together again
[26:09] some Christmas. Yeah, probably Christmas
[26:11] that did it. All right, Congressman,
[26:13] happy holidays to you.
[26:15] >> All right. Plenty more ahead as a factor
[26:16] moves along this evening. The spin is
[26:18] already in motion regarding American
[26:19] Taliban John Walker. We'll tell you
[26:21] about that. And who's looking out for
[26:23] us? Once again, Congress letting the
[26:24] country down by failing to pass an
[26:27] economic stimulus package. Whose fault
[26:30] is it? We'll tell you and we hope you
[26:32] stay tuned for those reports.
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[28:58] >> Join Oliver North for War Stories,
[29:00] Bandages on the Battlefield.
[29:02] The stage is set in Afghanistan, but
[29:04] what role should America play? For the
[29:06] information you need, turn to the team
[29:08] you trust, Team Washington, only on the
[29:11] Fox News Channel.
[29:13] The personal choice segment tonight, Fox
[29:15] News has learned that the Justice
[29:16] Department is leaning toward charging
[29:18] American Taliban guy John Walker with
[29:20] providing material support to terrorists
[29:22] and not treason. But is this the right
[29:24] thing to do? Joining us now from
[29:26] Raleigh, North Carolina is former
[29:27] federal prosecutor Eric Muller, the
[29:29] author of Free to Die for Their Country.
[29:32] Professor Muller teaches law at the
[29:33] University of North Carolina.
[29:35] So, we're getting a kind of a
[29:36] watered-down thing here with this Walker
[29:38] guy. How do you see it, Professor? Well,
[29:40] that's that's the way it's looking.
[29:42] That's what the reports are that they're
[29:43] going to go with providing material
[29:45] support instead of treason. Uh
[29:46] obviously, the people within the
[29:47] government know a lot more than we do
[29:49] about the facts, and so we're all left
[29:50] to speculate, but uh it seems to me that
[29:53] there uh based on what we do know, uh
[29:55] there is enough there for a treason
[29:57] prosecution, and in historical context,
[29:59] which is sort of my area of expertise,
[30:02] Japanese-American situation during World
[30:03] War II,
[30:04] uh I think that this is a much clearer
[30:06] case of treason actually than many of
[30:08] the cases that were brought against
[30:09] Japanese-Americans during World War II.
[30:11] Uh so, I'm a little bit perplexed
[30:12] actually, Bill, about why this is being
[30:14] handled in the way it's being handled.
[30:16] >> right, but let's let's examine. You feel
[30:17] that that Walker's getting special
[30:19] treatment because he's a son of a
[30:20] prominent Marin County, California guy
[30:23] and all of that? Well, I don't know that
[30:25] it has a whole lot to do with who his
[30:26] parents are, uh but it is perplexing to
[30:29] me that people, for example, during
[30:31] World War II, who did nothing more than
[30:33] uh give a lift and a road map to German
[30:36] escape German POWs, were hauled in and
[30:39] charged with treason if they were
[30:40] Japanese-Americans.
[30:42] Uh but now this young white fellow uh
[30:45] comes along and we hear a fair amount of
[30:47] sympathy and compassion out there that
[30:48] oh, he was confused and he was uh maybe
[30:52] uh not in his right mind and he may have
[30:53] been under duress. Uh,
[30:55] it does seem uh inconsistent to me uh to
[30:58] back off of a treason charge
[31:01] uh in this setting where you have
[31:03] somebody seemingly firing weapons
[31:05] alongside troops that had anti-aircraft
[31:07] guns pointed at American B-52s,
[31:10] but you will go get for treason against
[31:12] somebody who gives a lift to an escaped
[31:15] German POW.
[31:16] >> I mean I don't think it was just
[31:17] Japanese. Anybody who aided a POW in
[31:19] this country uh during World War II an
[31:22] escaped POW state German uh
[31:25] uh soldier or a spy would have been
[31:27] charged the same way, right?
[31:28] >> Actu- Actually, Bill, it turns out
[31:30] that's not true. There were uh lots of
[31:31] people who were involved in uh were
[31:35] among groups of people who were
[31:36] providing uh shelter, homes, support for
[31:39] escaped POWs who were not prosecuted,
[31:42] but uh when uh a group of a small group
[31:44] of Japanese-American women in Colorado
[31:46] did it in 1943,
[31:48] the government was all over them like a
[31:49] wet blanket.
[31:50] >> That's interesting. All right. Now,
[31:51] let's get back to Walker in the sense
[31:52] that I think most Americans don't feel
[31:54] sorry for this guy. I mean, he at 16 he
[31:57] went over and he wanted to become some
[31:59] kind of Muslim uh
[32:00] fighter fanatic jihad guy, whatever you
[32:02] want to call it. Um he himself doesn't
[32:05] really offer any kind of uh contrition.
[32:08] He's not you know, he's not sorry for
[32:10] what he did. But you do need two
[32:13] witnesses to convict in a uh on a
[32:16] treason um
[32:17] charge, correct? You do. And and and
[32:19] Bill, I think that may be the likeliest
[32:21] explanation for why
[32:23] the uh Justice Department is shying away
[32:25] from a treason charge. But even there,
[32:27] I'm still a little bit perplexed because
[32:29] uh surely uh among the many captives uh
[32:32] who are being held by the American
[32:34] military, Taliban captives, They could
[32:36] come up with a couple of guys.
[32:37] >> There are uh undoubtedly a couple of
[32:40] people among that group who who would be
[32:43] able to testify to what John Walker did
[32:45] or did not do.
[32:46] >> Sure. I you know, I wouldn't charge him
[32:48] for treason. I I
[32:50] I just think the guy is probably
[32:52] emotionally not all there and he doesn't
[32:55] know but I would put him away for
[32:57] between 10 and 20 years. I'd figure out
[32:59] a charge that was going to give him that
[33:01] kind of time. I wouldn't try him here
[33:03] either. I wouldn't bring him back here.
[33:05] I'd try him with the tribunal overseas.
[33:06] The charge that's now being circulated
[33:08] Bill would carry a punishment in that
[33:09] range under the federal sentencing
[33:11] guidelines. So, it may be that the
[33:12] outcome will be to your liking.
[33:13] >> Yeah, I I think I think that's probably
[33:15] fair. The guy's 20 years old. He's an
[33:17] idiot but you know, why kill him? Why
[33:20] hang him? I I don't think I would do
[33:21] that. Anyway, Professor, we appreciate
[33:23] your point of view. Thanks very much for
[33:24] helping us out tonight. Thank you, Bill.
[33:26] In a moment, as a fact that continues
[33:27] once again, Congress fails to pass an
[33:29] economic stimulus package. Now, that
[33:31] sounds boring but a lot of people in
[33:34] trouble economically here getting thrown
[33:35] out of work,
[33:37] way high debt.
[33:38] So, what's going on? Whose fault is
[33:41] this? Whose fault is this? We'll name
[33:44] names we come back.
[34:20] Fox News live, I'm Kiran Chetry. The
[34:21] Taliban and Al-Qaeda are nearly defeated
[34:24] in Afghanistan. Now, the major problem
[34:26] of bringing order to the war-torn
[34:28] country is still ahead. Fox's Dan
[34:30] Springer has more on that for us from
[34:32] Kabul.
[34:32] >> soldiers as part of an international
[34:34] peacekeeping force arrived in
[34:36] Afghanistan Thursday and they're already
[34:38] dogged by controversy, not only
[34:40] concerning the size of the force, but
[34:42] also the amount of authority it will be
[34:44] given. 53 UK soldiers land at the Bagram
[34:47] Airport. They will make it to Kabul,
[34:49] which is about 25 miles away on Friday.
[34:52] Their first duty will be to protect
[34:53] dignitaries as they drive into Kabul for
[34:55] Saturday's inauguration. The UN Security
[34:58] Council authorized the force for a
[35:00] period of up to 6 months, but the
[35:02] resolution did not clear up the sticky
[35:04] issue of size and the use of force.
[35:07] Britain and the US want 5,000 troops and
[35:10] they want the soldiers to have the
[35:11] authority to use force if there is a
[35:13] threat. The incoming Defense Minister of
[35:16] Afghanistan, Mohammad Fahim, said again
[35:18] today that the force should be limited
[35:21] to 1,000 soldiers and those troops will
[35:23] not have the authority to use force or
[35:26] take weapons from Afghans. Fahim wants
[35:28] the troops to be restricted to
[35:30] bodyguards for the members of the new
[35:32] government. In Kabul, Dan Springer, Fox
[35:34] News. And that is our update. We'll be
[35:36] back again for you coming up at the top
[35:38] of the hour. The O'Reilly Factor
[35:40] continues after the break.
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[37:42] All right, sir, staying with us is Bill
[37:44] O'Reilly in the second unresolved
[37:45] problems segment tonight. The bad
[37:47] economy, USA is in a recession, we all
[37:48] know that. President Bush wants an
[37:50] economic stimulus package to jump-start
[37:52] corporate America. House has passed one
[37:54] that would include a tax cut for
[37:56] corporations, extended unemployment
[37:58] benefits and tax credits for workers who
[38:00] lose health insurance, but doesn't look
[38:02] like the Senate's going to pass that as
[38:04] Majority Leader Tom Daschle doesn't like
[38:05] it. With us now is the chairman of the
[38:07] Democratic National Committee, Terry
[38:09] McAuliffe. So, it's Daschle against
[38:10] Bush, who's the villain, right? Now, I
[38:12] know what you're going to say, but hey,
[38:14] this is a corporate welfare bill the
[38:16] Republicans
[38:16] >> Well, I I got to stop it. So, listen, I
[38:18] want to keep it simple. I want to keep
[38:19] it simple.
[38:20] >> out there fighting for the people. am.
[38:21] And
[38:21] >> the folks to get a good representation,
[38:23] not all this political garbage that I
[38:25] see in day in day out.
[38:27] You know, you know that the reason
[38:30] President Clinton was so successful and
[38:32] popular is because the economy was so
[38:34] strong. And the reason that economy was
[38:36] so strong was that the corporations were
[38:38] buying equipment, investing in research
[38:40] and development, and hiring people. All
[38:41] right? You know that. That's a fact. So,
[38:44] why don't you want that to happen again?
[38:46] Listen, we wanted target it targeted tax
[38:49] cuts timely tax cuts. We wanted to be
[38:51] temporary. We wanted tax cuts to go to
[38:53] small business. Listen, today Ford is
[38:55] sitting on 13. billion dollars of cash
[38:58] reserves. They just laid off 20,000
[39:00] people. If you give them more money,
[39:03] that does not mean the people are going
[39:04] to start buying their cars.
[39:06] >> So, you don't trust the corporations if
[39:08] they get the tax break that Bush wants
[39:10] to give them. You don't trust them to
[39:12] start to buy again, to start to reignite
[39:14] the They're all sitting on cash. GE is
[39:16] sitting on a 90 billion dollars of cash.
[39:19] If you give them another billion
[39:20] dollars, Bill, doesn't mean we need
[39:22] consumers. We need people going out
[39:24] buying appliances. We need people buying
[39:26] cars. We don't need to have a big
[39:28] corporate welfare program. And that's
[39:29] the difference between the
[39:30] >> going to get people to go out and buy
[39:31] the cars if you don't pass an economic
[39:34] stimulus package? How? We wanted an
[39:37] economic stimulus package. We wanted
[39:39] 150% of ours had tax cuts in it for the
[39:42] people who needed it the most.
[39:43] >> Yeah, but you wanted it down downloaded
[39:45] to the people who don't have much money.
[39:47] They're not going to buy the $50,000
[39:50] cars. They're not going to buy the big
[39:52] computers. But they are going to buy.
[39:54] They're going to go to that neighborhood
[39:55] grocery store and put money back right
[39:57] into the system. That's not going to
[39:58] really get us out of the recession.
[39:59] >> Sure it is. If you have enough people
[40:00] going out buying, allowing the big
[40:03] corporations to have more cash reserves
[40:05] does nothing. We don't need to reward
[40:07] the big campaign contributors. Listen,
[40:09] the fix was in for the start. The
[40:10] Republicans never wanted a bill. Now
[40:12] they're out attacking time Daschle.
[40:14] >> Wait a minute. How can you say the
[40:15] Republicans didn't want a bill when the
[40:17] House of Representatives, Republican
[40:19] dominated, passed the version? Passed
[40:22] it. Their bill was corporate welfare. It
[40:24] had an alternative minimum tax in it.
[40:25] >> What did you do before?
[40:26] >> out It went back retroactively 15 years.
[40:29] It also said, "Okay, we'll extend
[40:31] healthcare benefits, but we'll do it as
[40:32] a tax credit." But, you know what? The
[40:34] people who are affected don't pay any
[40:36] taxes because they don't have any money
[40:37] coming in. And you know what? They won't
[40:39] even apply till later part of '02. So,
[40:41] what What this comes down to is that you
[40:43] don't believe in supply-side economics.
[40:45] And you don't believe that corporate
[40:47] America drives the economic machine. You
[40:49] don't believe that.
[40:50] >> I think in the economic situation we're
[40:51] in today, it has to be consumer-driven.
[40:54] >> All right. A lot of people out of work.
[40:55] 2 million people out of work since
[40:56] January 20th. We got to help them get
[40:58] confidence back. They go out, start
[41:00] buying, then
[41:01] >> you say we got to help them, that means
[41:02] you're going to give them money, see?
[41:04] And that comes out of the pockets of
[41:06] working Americans. Every time you give
[41:08] somebody something, somebody pays for
[41:09] that. Listen, the Republicans had the
[41:11] biggest giveaway of money in that House
[41:13] bill that you've ever seen. Ours is
[41:16] targeted to go to the people who need
[41:17] it. Ours was also targeted to small
[41:19] business for plant and equipment
[41:21] investment. Huge tax rebates for small
[41:23] Listen, 90% of our business is small
[41:25] business.
[41:26] >> All right. It's It's a philosophical
[41:27] difference.
[41:28] >> Philosophical. Consumers versus
[41:29] corporations.
[41:30] >> right.
[41:31] >> That's your difference.
[41:32] >> So, it seems to me that if people cared
[41:34] about the country and not just politics,
[41:35] power politics, that they would meet in
[41:37] the middle. That they would meet in the
[41:39] middle. But, Daschle doesn't even want
[41:40] to put it up on the floor.
[41:42] There are not the votes to pass what we
[41:44] need. We're not Well, why doesn't he put
[41:45] it up and bat it around like we're
[41:47] batting it around here? So, you're going
[41:49] to get nothing. And everyone's going to
[41:51] suffer. Everyone's going to suffer
[41:53] because you pinheads in Washington, both
[41:55] parties, are more interested in your
[41:57] party.
[41:59] It doesn't matter. You're a Democrat.
[42:00] You're a You're more interested in
[42:01] blaming. Hey, I'm not for blaming.
[42:03] >> No, a month ago you were going to Well,
[42:05] let's use the Bush recession business,
[42:07] which was the the I think it's the Bush
[42:09] recession Come on. I got internal memos
[42:11] from the DNC saying we're going to call
[42:12] it the Bush recession. You know that's
[42:14] true. Don't give me that.
[42:15] >> Listen, Bill, they walked out of the
[42:16] White House 2 months ago.
[42:18] 2 months ago, the Democrats and
[42:20] Republicans, George Bush does well, he's
[42:22] got a 90% approval rating. We got
[42:23] airline security. We've got a homeland
[42:25] security bill cuz we worked together.
[42:27] >> That's right.
[42:28] >> And you know what? It fell apart on this
[42:30] bill. We could not come together because
[42:31] it's a difference of opinion of who
[42:33] should get the money. President Bush
[42:35] went and spoke to the House Caucus
[42:36] yesterday. Do you know he didn't even
[42:38] mention the economic stimulus bill? I
[42:40] just found it astounding. Now all they
[42:42] want to do is blame, blame, blame,
[42:43] blame.
[42:43] >> They do. Everybody wants to You You want
[42:45] to blame the president.
[42:46] >> What about the Senate? What about Tom
[42:47] Daschle? What about Tom Daschle? All
[42:48] right. And I understand that and it and
[42:50] it just makes me furious. Now look,
[42:52] >> with you. I don't understand why you
[42:53] guys can't say, "Okay, we'll compromise.
[42:55] We'll give the corporations a bit of a
[42:57] tax break and then we'll bring up the
[42:59] poor the poorer people in America. We'll
[43:01] give them a little bit more incentive, a
[43:03] little bit cash." Why can't that happen?
[43:05] It should have happened. And they should
[43:06] instead of trying to do an extension of
[43:08] the health care benefits, talk about a
[43:10] tax rebate which meant nothing. If they
[43:11] could have worked with us and really got
[43:13] the money out there for the extension of
[43:15] health care benefits, we could have
[43:16] worked together. We could have had a
[43:17] bill. We got close on this bill.
[43:19] >> spending though. I mean, come on. This
[43:21] bill is already budgeted at 90 billion
[43:23] the way it is. 90 billion the way it is.
[43:25] You guys want to double that.
[43:27] >> bill for the Republicans that they
[43:28] talked about yesterday was 200 billion.
[43:30] What are you talking about? It's your
[43:32] Republican White House.
[43:33] >> pass a bill that is 90 billion. That
[43:36] seems reasonable to me. Yesterday tried
[43:38] to do a bill for 200 billion and as you
[43:40] know, the conservatives in the Congress
[43:42] walked away from it.
[43:43] >> Well, they couldn't even get the House
[43:44] to come out with a new bill cuz they
[43:45] knew they made a mistake in only a turn
[43:47] of men on tax. Let's go back 15 years
[43:49] retroactively. These corporations are
[43:51] sitting on huge cash reserves, Bill.
[43:53] That's because they're afraid.
[43:54] >> people spend it. Let's spend the cash
[43:56] together. Let's not give them another
[43:57] billion.
[43:58] >> They're going to spend They're not going
[43:58] to spend the cash in this kind of a
[44:00] climate. They're going to sit on it, get
[44:02] the interest, and keep their
[44:03] stockholders
[44:04] >> We need to get people working today. We
[44:07] need to get money to people today to get
[44:08] things going. They gave $254 million
[44:12] back to Enron. Do you think that is
[44:14] going to get economic stimulus to give
[44:15] Ken Lay and Enron more money?
[44:18] We're looking at We're looking at it.
[44:20] But if you think that giving money
[44:21] directly to poor Americans so they can
[44:24] run down to the grocery
[44:25] >> poor. It's not These are working These
[44:26] are hard These are people who lost
[44:28] their hard working people. Don't say
[44:30] poor.
[44:30] >> That's right. These are hard working
[44:32] Americans who lost their family and
[44:33] follow their own. There are people who
[44:35] do not pay federal tax, okay? They're
[44:37] below the federal tax level. They don't
[44:39] pay any money to the federal government.
[44:40] >> And why are those 2 million people there
[44:41] today? Right. They have lost their job
[44:43] through no fault of their own. You
[44:44] cannot blame those people, Bill, because
[44:46] of September 11th who lost their job. I
[44:48] don't call them poor people. There are
[44:50] people who have lost their job through
[44:51] no fault of their own. Those are the
[44:52] people who should be You're not going to
[44:54] get the economy going by creating a
[44:56] bigger welfare state. You're not. You've
[44:59] got I know the corporations are greedy,
[45:01] but you've got to work with them. You
[45:03] Yeah, you've got to work with them.
[45:05] Don't demonize them like you're doing.
[45:07] I'm not demonizing them.
[45:08] >> Sure you are. They don't need more
[45:09] money. Listen, I'm in the upper tax
[45:11] bracket. I'm going to do fine. You want
[45:13] to give me more tax breaks right now? I
[45:14] don't actually need them. You know what?
[45:16] I don't need them. There are other
[45:17] people who need them, Bill. Not for me.
[45:18] The people who need money are
[45:19] >> want any more money for the rich. I want
[45:21] the folks to get I want the folks to get
[45:23] some kind of relief and right now
[45:25] they're not. Nice to see you, Mr.
[45:26] McCaffrey. Thanks for coming in. Take a
[45:27] break.
[45:27] >> you, Bill. Right. Next, one of our guys
[45:29] in Afghanistan just back with some
[45:30] eye-opening war stories in just a few
[45:32] moments.
[45:38] David Miller
[45:39] Greg McCaffrey Erin Burnett William
[45:41] Schneider B. Perigee Bob Dole
[45:44] International
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[48:51] In the back of the book segment tonight,
[48:52] to live and die in Afghanistan. With us
[48:54] now is this correspondent Steve Harrigan
[48:56] who is just back after three long months
[48:59] in that very sad country. Well, we're
[49:01] glad you're back safe. Thank you, Bill.
[49:03] Tell us what life is like for you over
[49:05] there. I mean, you don't there's not a
[49:06] hotel to stay in when you're up in with
[49:09] the Northern Alliance, right?
[49:10] >> That's right. There's no electricity, no
[49:12] TV, no radio. Everything's made of dirt,
[49:14] so you live in a dirt house.
[49:16] There's no distractions. Okay. When you
[49:18] say you live in a dirt house,
[49:20] who owned that house? I don't know who
[49:23] originally owned it, but Northern
[49:24] Alliance soldiers took it over. And you
[49:26] slept on a floor or what?
[49:27] >> Slept in a sleeping bag on the floor.
[49:29] Mhm.
[49:30] Do they have electricity in the house?
[49:32] >> No, the whole place didn't have
[49:34] electricity. No one had electricity. No,
[49:37] you'd go out in the field to go to the
[49:38] bathroom.
[49:38] >> all right? Yeah. Now, what did you carry
[49:40] with you? You had a cell phone,
[49:41] obviously. A cell phone.
[49:42] >> a video phone, cash, uh and a sleeping
[49:46] bag and clothes. Where did you eat? Uh
[49:49] we ate in the room. They'd made us rice
[49:50] and beans just about every day. Rice
[49:52] beans, huh?
[49:53] >> Three times a day. Three guys in a small
[49:55] room. So, it was three guys in the
[49:56] house? Yeah. Okay.
[49:58] Um
[49:59] when you were out there, did you feel
[50:01] that
[50:03] uh these guys
[50:04] were trustworthy or they could turn on
[50:06] you or there was a sense of danger? I
[50:08] felt that they were uh tricky. There was
[50:10] negotiations going on. We were paying
[50:12] them for the room. They wanted to keep
[50:14] us there as long as possible. They
[50:15] actually didn't want us to know about
[50:17] Kabul falling cuz they wanted to keep
[50:19] taking the money.
[50:20] >> then you were paying a translator, too.
[50:22] Right.
[50:22] >> Was he trustworthy?
[50:24] Uh he was and then he started working
[50:26] for another correspondent for Fox who
[50:28] offered him a little more. Is that
[50:29] right? So, you got outbid by your own
[50:30] guy.
[50:31] >> sure how it happened.
[50:33] How did you travel around? So, you had
[50:35] to get down from the north to Kabul. How
[50:36] did you get there? Russian jeep.
[50:38] A tough road. Three days, day and night.
[50:41] So, you just non-stop in a jeep?
[50:43] Non-stop with Mr. Abdul behind the
[50:45] wheel. Who owned the jeep? Uh he did. He
[50:47] bought a new one with the money he made,
[50:49] too.
[50:49] >> All right. So, you paid him to just
[50:50] drive you down there.
[50:51] >> We paid him and the rate went up the
[50:52] higher the altitude went.
[50:54] >> Is that right?
[50:54] >> Every deal I made there changed halfway
[50:57] through. Now, would they feel
[50:58] embarrassment by shaking you down or
[51:00] would they
[51:01] >> I don't think they see it as a shake
[51:02] down. They see, "Let's see how far we
[51:04] can push this guy." And everybody did it
[51:06] the same way.
[51:07] >> But you had to be careful because if you
[51:08] said, "Hey, I'm not paying any more."
[51:09] they'd have thrown you right out, right?
[51:10] >> Yeah, cuz everybody had guns. Everybody
[51:12] had guns, nobody had money. We had no
[51:14] guns, we had money.
[51:15] >> But Geraldo had a gun.
[51:17] Oh. But you didn't have one. I don't
[51:19] know how to shoot. Okay. But I would
[51:20] have just had one just just in case cuz
[51:22] it was dangerous. You could have been
[51:23] ambushed at any time, correct? Yeah. Our
[51:25] own guards hinted around that it's a
[51:27] dangerous ride back to Pakistan. We need
[51:30] a bonus. Okay. So, you had armed guards
[51:32] that you paid. By the end we had 12.
[51:34] Mhm. Two of them had wooden legs. I
[51:36] think it was more like a social welfare
[51:38] program for the local village elder.
[51:40] Do you have any affection for these
[51:42] people of this country at all?
[51:43] Uh the climate's beautiful, the terrain
[51:46] is beautiful, blue skies every day. It
[51:48] was nice to see.
[51:49] But,
[51:51] you know, I'm happy to get out of there
[51:52] alive and no desire to go back.
[51:54] >> Right. People are basically primitive,
[51:57] right? I don't know if the people are
[52:00] primitive, the conditions are
[52:01] unbelievable. I mean, you walk into a
[52:03] town, you think it's an archaeological
[52:05] dig, and then you see people are living
[52:07] there.
[52:08] I always said that people get the
[52:09] government they deserve. But, you have
[52:11] 24 million Afghans and a couple of
[52:13] thousand fanatical Taliban
[52:15] >> You know what? I totally don't buy that.
[52:17] No one deserves 20 years of warfare.
[52:20] 19-year-old guy doesn't know how to
[52:21] read. And what did he do to deserve
[52:24] that? 19 years of warfare. But, if they
[52:26] would just look at life in a way that
[52:29] we're not going to put up with this,
[52:30] we're going to organize, we're going to
[52:31] have a sensible society. Other countries
[52:33] have done that.
[52:35] Well,
[52:36] I don't know how to think
[52:36] >> all fighting among themselves, right?
[52:38] They all hate each other.
[52:39] >> They are, but what are you going to do
[52:40] when you don't know how to read? All
[52:41] you've got is a gun, you've been
[52:42] fighting your whole life.
[52:44] >> learn how to read if I didn't know.
[52:45] Well, I might try I might try to learn
[52:47] how to read. I'm I'm just a self-reliant
[52:48] person. Now, in the future
[52:51] >> You know, I'd like to put you in
[52:52] Afghanistan and see how far that
[52:54] self-reliance goes. I think that's
[52:55] making a tremendous demand on people to
[52:57] say that. They put me in El Salvador and
[53:00] they put me in Argentina when there was
[53:02] riots going on and they put me in a lot
[53:03] of other places and I and I made it.
[53:05] But, the the fact of the matter is I
[53:07] didn't feel compassion for people who
[53:09] allowed terrible things to happen around
[53:11] them. I always said, "Hey, you got to
[53:12] take You got to take it and sooner or
[53:14] later you got to take a stand."
[53:17] I I disagree with you. You go over
[53:19] there, you're born there with in that
[53:21] kind of climate, the odds are a billion
[53:23] to one against you.
[53:24] >> Yeah. I mean, what? One out of four
[53:26] babies don't make it to age five. That's
[53:28] true.
[53:29] >> they're not self-reliant? No, it's
[53:30] because the
[53:31] >> the babies' fault. It's the adults'
[53:32] fault.
[53:33] >> Yeah. I mean, I just Maybe I'm wrong,
[53:35] but I you know, you've been on Main
[53:36] Street since you left.
[53:37] It's it's an interesting world. Well,
[53:39] glad you're back safe, Steve. Dave.
[53:40] Okay, cheers.
[53:42] Next, we'll wrap things up with the most
[53:43] ridiculous item of the day and some of
[53:44] your mail. And here's another greeting
[53:46] from our troops overseas watching us on
[53:48] the Armed Forces Network. Hi, this
[53:50] message is for our Marine though.
[53:52] We just wanted to wish him a Merry
[53:54] Christmas and a Happy New Year.
[53:56] Uh,
[53:57] we wish you were here.
[53:59] Um,
[54:00] please take care and
[54:02] know that we're thinking of you. Be
[54:03] safe. Say Merry Christmas.
[54:05] Merry Christmas.
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[56:12] This weekend
[56:13] >> Too many Americans are hurting, are
[56:15] worried about their jobs. People need
[56:16] help.
[56:17] >> Your job, your money. Is your financial
[56:19] security in jeopardy? In tough times,
[56:21] stay with the number one team in
[56:23] business. The team you can trust.
[56:26] Saturday, the road to recovery, the
[56:27] stocks that could stop you cold, and
[56:29] tips on maximizing your yield on Bulls
[56:31] and Bears. Then, on Cavuto on Business,
[56:33] Ingraham and Maureen O'Connell. You
[56:35] calling me Elvis? Cavuto versus
[56:37] O'Reilly. This won't be pretty. War on
[56:39] terror, the cost of freedom, a Fox News
[56:41] business special.
[56:43] Time now for the most ridiculous item of
[56:44] the day. It was a big bash last night at
[56:46] the White House, and your humble
[56:47] correspondent, that's me, was on the
[56:48] scene along with most of the national
[56:50] press corps. It was the annual Christmas
[56:52] party for the press, so nearly everyone
[56:54] was invited, including Alan Colmes. And
[56:56] that impressed me. Bush administration
[56:58] seemingly doesn't hold grudges the way
[56:59] the Clintons did. Alan's no fan of Mr.
[57:01] Bush, but there he was, munching shrimp
[57:04] cocktail alongside Matt Lauer and Wolf
[57:06] Blitzer.
[57:07] If I had tried to crash the Clinton
[57:09] Christmas party, I'd be Leavenworth
[57:10] right now, doing strong time, and that
[57:13] of course would be ridiculous. Finally,
[57:15] tonight the mail. About the firing of
[57:17] Professor Sami Al-Arian at the
[57:18] University of South Florida. Rhonda
[57:19] Burnham, St. Petersburg, Florida.
[57:21] O'Reilly, it appears to me that you
[57:23] might be backpedaling on the man. We
[57:25] don't need another investigation. His
[57:26] own words and associations are enough to
[57:28] warrant his dismissal. I disagree, with
[57:30] Burnham. You don't sack a tenured
[57:31] professor for saying stuff you don't
[57:33] like. Professor Al-Arian should receive
[57:34] due process and a thorough
[57:36] investigation. Peter Cornwell, Austin,
[57:38] Texas. Hey Bill, I can't understand why
[57:39] our government has not questioned Sami.
[57:41] Also, why hasn't Governor Jeb Bush done
[57:43] something? I don't have the answers for
[57:44] you, Mr. Cornwell. Very strange
[57:46] situation that Florida authorities want
[57:47] to go away. That's why they're firing
[57:49] him. I suspect an investigation would
[57:51] embarrass the state of Florida. Bobby
[57:53] Hilliman, Orlando, Florida. Are you
[57:55] proud of yourself now, O'Reilly? Your
[57:57] biased interrogation has led to the
[57:58] dismissal of Professor Al-Arian. His
[58:00] crime, free speech. There's nothing
[58:02] biased about our report on the
[58:04] professor. As always, we presented the
[58:06] facts. Patty Casey, Grand Rapids,
[58:08] Michigan. Bill, I love the factor, but
[58:10] you should have approached the Al-Arian
[58:11] story with a little more tact. Your
[58:13] harsh words about the university stirred
[58:15] the pot. So what, Ms. Casey? That pot
[58:16] needed to be stirred. Remember the
[58:18] factor is a no spin zone. Tact, not part
[58:21] of that. About the man who lost his
[58:23] brother at the World Trade Center, but
[58:24] opposes our military campaign against
[58:25] the Taliban. Melissa McCloud, Atlanta.
[58:27] Bill, Mr. Po Mr. Potorti does not
[58:30] understand that it was the USA's failure
[58:32] to respond with military force to the
[58:34] escalating terrorism that led to 9/11.
[58:36] We embolden terrorists if we do nothing.
[58:38] John Cummins, Richland, Washington. I
[58:40] have sympathy for Mr. Potorti losing his
[58:42] brother, but if we don't bring the
[58:43] terrorists to justice, other families
[58:45] will suffer. We must fight for our
[58:46] freedom. Rich Cairo, Camp Hill,
[58:48] Pennsylvania. O'Reilly, your claim of
[58:50] political neutrality is starting to lose
[58:51] its luster. As a moderate Democrat, I'm
[58:53] seeing a string of people who want to
[58:55] ban Santa Claus, stop the Afghan
[58:56] bonding, and the like. These folks do
[58:58] not represent liberal thinking. Well,
[59:00] nobody said they did, Mr. Cairo, because
[59:02] we're independent. We go after all
[59:03] fallacious thinking, and we don't care
[59:05] what ideology it belongs to. Jim
[59:07] Buckler, Kenner, Louisiana. Bill, you
[59:09] are smug. You're a smart, meticulous,
[59:11] unambiguous guy. Well, thank you, Jim.
[59:13] I'll take that. And Grandma Jackie,
[59:15] Lebanon, Tennessee. O'Reilly, you're so
[59:17] smug, I'd like to give you a hug.
[59:20] Well, I'll take that, too, Grandma.
[59:21] Merry Christmas to you.
[59:22] And how about hugging our website, huh?
[59:25] Just finished a brand new column for
[59:26] worldnetdaily.com
[59:28] on the attack on Christmas. It's
[59:31] unbelievable what's going on in this
[59:33] country. People want to tear down
[59:36] Christmas. I don't
[59:38] I get it, but I don't like it. So,
[59:40] that's what the column's about. All
[59:42] right. How about emailing us with some
[59:43] feedback?
[59:44] [email protected] [email protected]
[59:48] Name and town. Name and town. Name and
[59:50] town if you wish to you. That's it for
[59:52] us today. As always, we thank you for
[59:54] watching The Factor. I'm Bill O'Reilly.
[59:58] We'll see you again next time.