The O'Reilly Factor (FNC) - 2001-12-20

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] The Camp

[0:00] >> [music]

[0:00] >> TV. Right back here tomorrow

[0:02] for more hunting for the killers.

[0:12] >> [music]

[0:12] >> The O'Reilly Factor is on tonight. The

[0:14] signs were there, but the Clinton

[0:15] administration backed away from

[0:17] aggressive action against terrorists.

[0:19] We'll tell you why. And why is President

[0:22] Bush using executive privilege to block

[0:23] Congress from getting information about

[0:25] Mr. Clinton's fundraising and an FBI

[0:27] murder scandal? Also, a top secret

[0:30] anthrax project in Ohio has drawn the

[0:32] attention of the FBI. We'll fill you in.

[0:35] Caution, you're about to enter a no spin

[0:37] zone. That begins in 90 seconds.

[0:50] Fox News Live, I'm Kiran Chetry. The

[0:52] Pentagon may be sending more Marines to

[0:54] search for Osama bin Laden in the caves

[0:56] of Tora Bora. Meanwhile, one of the

[0:58] translators who worked on the Osama bin

[1:00] Laden tape says that a more detailed

[1:02] transcript reveals bin Laden actually

[1:04] mentions some of the September 11th

[1:06] hijackers by name. The Pentagon is not

[1:09] commenting on that new translation.

[1:12] 100 days after the September 11th

[1:14] attacks, President Bush is once again

[1:16] targeting terrorist cash flow. The

[1:18] president says he'll cut the financial

[1:20] resources of two more groups he says

[1:22] support terrorist activities. One is a

[1:25] separatist group from Kashmir, the other

[1:27] a Pakistani charity said to have been

[1:29] helping Osama bin Laden in his bid to

[1:32] get nuclear weapons.

[1:34] We made the first indictment against the

[1:36] terrorists,

[1:37] those murderers of September the 11th.

[1:41] We and our coalition have done much in

[1:42] the past 100 days.

[1:44] With the help of freedom-loving

[1:46] countries around the world,

[1:48] we will do much more

[1:50] to rid the world of evil

[1:52] and of terrorists.

[1:55] The The House also saying it may be a

[1:57] week or more before President Bush

[1:58] decides exactly how to tackle the issue

[2:01] of American Taliban fighter John Walker.

[2:03] Mr. Bush says he must hear

[2:04] recommendations before ruling on his

[2:07] fate. That is our update. We'll be back

[2:09] again for you coming up at the bottom of

[2:10] the hour here on Fox.

[2:16] >> [music]

[2:20] >> Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly. Thanks for

[2:21] watching. It's tonight an excellent

[2:23] investigative report in the Washington

[2:25] Post today about President Clinton's

[2:26] policy toward terrorists. That is the

[2:28] subject in this evening's talking points

[2:30] memo.

[2:31] Mr. Clinton told me a couple of weeks

[2:33] ago that he believes he did all he could

[2:35] to combat the threat caused by Osama bin

[2:37] Laden and other terrorists. And indeed,

[2:38] Mr. Clinton almost doubled the amount of

[2:40] money spent on gathering information

[2:41] about terrorists. But according to the

[2:43] post, when it came time for concrete

[2:45] action against terrorist networks, the

[2:46] Clinton administration shied away. The

[2:49] Treasury Department, for example,

[2:50] declined to track bin Laden's money,

[2:52] citing privacy concerns, if you can

[2:54] believe it. And once again, Janet Reno's

[2:56] incredible incompetence hurt the nation.

[2:58] As Attorney General, she ordered the FBI

[2:59] not to investigate American charities

[3:02] that funnel money to the terrorists for

[3:04] fear that such an investigation would be

[3:05] seen as profiling Islamic charities.

[3:10] Once again, political correctness

[3:11] damages the country. This talking

[3:13] points, as mentioned before, the

[3:14] incredibly dumb Torricelli principle

[3:16] that prevented CIA station chiefs from

[3:18] paying shady informers was okayed by

[3:21] President Clinton, and that gutted

[3:22] America's street intelligence. All in

[3:24] all, while the Clinton administration

[3:26] recognized the threat caused by bin

[3:27] Laden and other fanatics and was keeping

[3:29] an eye on them, there was no sense of

[3:31] urgency.

[3:32] Clinton Assistant Secretary of State for

[3:34] Counterterrorism Michael Sheehan is

[3:36] quoted by the post as saying, "It has to

[3:38] be said that it was a collective

[3:39] judgment of the American people, not the

[3:42] Clinton administration, that the impact

[3:44] of terrorism was at a level that was

[3:46] acceptable." Well, after reading that,

[3:48] we immediately called Mr. Sheehan, who

[3:50] declined our invitation to appear. And I

[3:51] think I know why. That is one of the

[3:53] most brainless statements I have ever

[3:55] heard of in my life. The American people

[3:58] are at fault here? Hold it. We don't

[4:01] have top secret information. We can't

[4:03] monitor what the terrorists are doing,

[4:05] and we elect leaders who are supposed to

[4:07] protect us. With all due respect, Mr.

[4:09] Sheehan and the other counterterrorism

[4:11] experts, including President Clinton,

[4:13] are at fault here. They didn't protect

[4:15] America aggressively enough. Period. We

[4:19] were attacked several times in the

[4:20] Clinton administration, handled it as a

[4:22] police action, not a national security

[4:25] situation. President was distracted, of

[4:27] course, by the Lewinsky situation, and

[4:29] was primarily interested in protecting

[4:31] the surging economy. A showdown with

[4:33] Muslim nations would have been very bad

[4:34] for business.

[4:35] In the end, nobody could have predicted

[4:37] 9/11, and nobody is directly at fault.

[4:40] But our government is being strangled by

[4:41] politically correct thought and a

[4:43] general malaise towards solving

[4:45] problems.

[4:46] Many politicians are far more interested

[4:48] in themselves and their power

[4:50] than doing right by us.

[4:51] That's our memo. Now for the top story

[4:53] tonight, evaluating the failure to

[4:54] confront bin Laden and other fanatical

[4:56] thugs. Joining us now from Washington is

[4:58] Ambassador Dennis Ross, a Middle East

[5:00] envoy under President Clinton and

[5:01] current analyst with the Washington

[5:02] Institute for Near East Policy, and

[5:04] Charles Duelfer, a foreign analyst for

[5:07] the Center for Strategic and

[5:08] International Studies.

[5:10] Mr. Ambassador, what say you about the

[5:12] Post piece?

[5:13] Well, I think the Post piece is an

[5:15] extraordinary piece of investigative

[5:17] journalism, and I think it does reveal a

[5:18] lot of the facts that people have not

[5:20] known, and I have to tell you, including

[5:21] myself.

[5:22] Many things there that I did not know.

[5:24] Like what?

[5:26] Well, for example, I had no idea that we

[5:27] had inserted people on into the

[5:30] Afghanistan on the ground. I had no idea

[5:32] we put a couple of subs on station. I

[5:34] had no idea that we had, in fact, done a

[5:36] finding so that we could have gone after

[5:38] bin Laden, and that we were developing

[5:39] military options to carry that out.

[5:42] I did have an idea about the

[5:43] difficulties in terms of money, because

[5:45] I I have to tell you that from my own

[5:46] standpoint, I had wanted to find ways to

[5:48] choke off money to Hamas and I found

[5:50] that very difficult and I found that the

[5:52] post piece basically reaffirming that.

[5:54] >> Now, why did you find it difficult to

[5:55] choke off money to Hamas, which is a

[5:57] terrorist organization in Palestine? Uh

[5:59] the simple reason was the standard of

[6:01] evidence that I was being told that was

[6:03] required

[6:04] >> By who? by the Treasury Department, but

[6:06] also by the Justice Department didn't

[6:07] allow us to do that.

[6:09] >> Janet Reno, correct?

[6:10] >> Well, both, but not just not just

[6:12] Justice Department, but also the

[6:12] Treasury Department. In each case, I

[6:15] >> the Treasury Department didn't want any

[6:16] part of that, which is uh outrageous.

[6:19] Mr. Elfer, what do you think?

[6:21] Well, you got to understand, I think one

[6:22] of the things that is that comes out of

[6:23] that piece is there was a change in

[6:25] thinking going on. And as you said at

[6:27] the top, uh there was a key thing which

[6:29] was going on. There was a lot of bombs

[6:31] going off and we had to come to a

[6:32] conclusion that retaliation wasn't the

[6:34] way to go anymore. We couldn't give up

[6:36] the first punch. And I think some of the

[6:38] experts actually, you know, hit on that

[6:39] and said, "We've got to think about

[6:40] preemption. We've got to think about

[6:42] getting these guys before they get us."

[6:44] Now, how far up the food chain that got,

[6:46] uh I'm not so sure. I think the top of

[6:48] the food chain

[6:48] >> Yeah, ask it. It had Look, you had four

[6:51] incidents. You had Saudi Arabia where

[6:52] they killed uh some of our military

[6:54] people. You had the embassy bombings in

[6:55] Africa. And by the way, I just want to

[6:57] tell everybody because I didn't know

[6:58] this, the only dissenting voice to uh

[7:02] retaliatory strikes um

[7:05] after the embassies were bombed in

[7:06] Africa, the only one who said no to the

[7:09] uh cruises that they sent to Afghanistan

[7:11] to try to get bin Laden was Janet Reno.

[7:13] Janet Reno is the only one.

[7:15] >> I mean, this woman, what a disaster.

[7:16] But, go ahead. I mean, you had the four

[7:18] you had the four attacks and then you

[7:20] had the call. President Clinton had to

[7:22] know that these guys were active, that

[7:24] they were training. We knew that from

[7:25] our satellite intelligence and that they

[7:27] were obviously threats. He had to know.

[7:29] Yeah, this was a problem that they were

[7:31] managing. It's not a problem they were

[7:32] trying to solve. Again, if you're going

[7:34] to go about preempting, that's a new way

[7:36] of thinking. You've really got to lead.

[7:38] You've got to convince people that's the

[7:39] right thing to do. Uh people

[7:41] >> he do it? Why didn't the President

[7:42] Clinton

[7:42] >> Well, it appears there's other things on

[7:44] his agenda. There's a lot of domestic

[7:45] affairs issues, of course.

[7:47] All right. Now, Mr. Ambassador, Michael

[7:49] Scheuer saying it's the American

[7:51] public's fault because we didn't have an

[7:53] outcry to get Bin Laden and these

[7:55] people. You're reacting to that

[7:56] statement.

[7:57] Well, I don't think that's a statement

[7:59] that makes a lot of sense. I mean, the

[8:00] fact is if the president was going to

[8:03] try to do what we we are now doing,

[8:06] you would have had to change the

[8:07] context. Obviously, the context had to

[8:09] be different. The reality is that

[8:11] President Bush prior to September 11th

[8:13] was also not acting. The context changed

[8:15] with September 11th. What President

[8:17] Clinton did do was issue a finding that

[8:20] allowed us to go after Bin Laden. What

[8:22] he didn't do was prepare the American

[8:24] public for what might have to be the

[8:26] kind of military action that we're

[8:28] seeing today.

[8:28] >> sell it because it's hard to sell. It

[8:31] was very hard and I will give President

[8:32] Clinton this. I didn't think he was a

[8:34] strong leader from the word go. I think

[8:36] he managed the economy fine, but I

[8:37] didn't think President Clinton was a

[8:38] strong leader.

[8:39] But

[8:40] pre-9/11, Mr. Delfer, it was almost

[8:43] impossible to rally the world to go

[8:46] after Bin Laden.

[8:48] I mean, the world didn't care even

[8:49] though they was doing these little

[8:50] bombings and this and that. I mean, they

[8:52] hurt us, but they didn't hurt them, so

[8:54] they didn't care.

[8:55] I'm not sure that's right. I think, you

[8:56] know, it depends on how you play these

[8:58] issues. I mean, you know, the World

[8:59] Trade Center was bombed once before.

[9:01] They were blowing up embassies and our

[9:02] reaction was to, you know, build bigger

[9:04] walls. I think if we took a different

[9:06] approach at the top and led strongly on

[9:08] that, it might have had a different

[9:10] outcome. You really believe the world

[9:11] would have done that? I would have

[9:12] rallied to our cause cuz I don't. I

[9:14] don't I think I think Clinton said,

[9:16] "Look, the economy's great. I don't want

[9:18] to get in a big brawl with the world. We

[9:19] need the oil. Let's just contain it."

[9:22] Mr. Ambassador.

[9:24] I I do think you have a point. I think

[9:25] the critical thing here is having an

[9:28] event that creates such drama that it

[9:29] captures everybody's attention and makes

[9:32] everybody realize that they are

[9:33] threatened. Unfortunately, the previous

[9:35] episodes, the previous events did not do

[9:38] that. It's a sad commentary, but

[9:40] unfortunately you have to see something

[9:41] that has such drama, such moments that

[9:43] that's the way you can get it.

[9:44] >> It's a selfish world. I'm going to give

[9:45] you the last word, Mr. Delfer, but I

[9:47] listen, I want a stronger leadership. I

[9:49] think Mr. Sheehan is outrageous to blame

[9:51] it on us. I want strong, honest

[9:53] leadership, but I think most politicians

[9:55] are timid. They don't want to rock the

[9:57] boat in any way. Give you the last word.

[9:59] Well, I think you got to pick your

[10:00] issues and if you can sell out

[10:02] short-term interest for long-term

[10:04] interest, uh that's the price you're

[10:06] going to pay. Do you think President

[10:07] Clinton knew that this was going to be a

[10:09] burgeoning threat after he got out of

[10:11] office?

[10:12] I think he knew it was going to grow,

[10:13] but he had to pick his issues. And I

[10:14] think he you know, he put a lot of

[10:15] effort into the peace process with the

[10:17] Israelis and the Palestinians. Did quite

[10:18] well there, almost got a deal, but he

[10:20] just picked that issue and

[10:22] >> to differ. I don't think he did quite

[10:23] well and I think the present day in

[10:25] Palestine shows that. Gentlemen, thank

[10:27] you very much. We appreciate your

[10:28] expertise. Next on the rundown, a top

[10:30] secret anthrax project in Ohio. We'll

[10:33] tell you about it when we come back.

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[12:43] In the Unsolved Problems segment

[12:44] tonight, the anthrax mystery continues.

[12:46] According to ABC News, the FBI believes

[12:48] the anthrax that has killed five

[12:50] Americans has developed in the USA, and

[12:53] the feds have questioned some American

[12:54] scientists involved with top-secret

[12:56] anthrax projects. Joining us now from

[12:58] Boston is Jean Gilman, the senior fellow

[13:01] at the Massachusetts Institute of

[13:03] Technology, and the author of the book

[13:04] Anthrax: The Investigation of a Deadly

[13:07] Outbreak. Mr. Gilman, um you know, uh

[13:10] this comes as a complete shock to me. I

[13:11] didn't know there was any anthrax secret

[13:13] project in Ohio, and I guess there are

[13:14] other places in the country as well.

[13:16] Tell us about it. Well, there are five

[13:18] places at least that we know of. One of

[13:20] them is over in the United Kingdom at a

[13:22] place called Porton Down. Uh the other

[13:24] four are here in the United States, and

[13:27] it's to those four places

[13:29] um that the FBI has tracked this very

[13:32] highly weaponized anthrax that we're all

[13:34] very concerned about.

[13:35] >> so the FBI has indeed tracked it to

[13:38] these research centers. So there's no

[13:40] possibility that Al-Qaeda could have,

[13:43] you know, funneled it up and brought it

[13:44] in. We live in a world where anything is

[13:46] possible. We could wake up tomorrow and

[13:48] find out maybe somebody has it over in

[13:50] Afghanistan. I you know, I'm I'm never

[13:53] surprised by anything anymore. But I

[13:54] think the the line of investigation

[13:56] right now

[13:57] has led back to the US Army led to

[14:01] Dugway, Utah in particular and now to

[14:04] Battelle which is a corporation which

[14:06] was

[14:07] under contract with the CIA to do work

[14:10] with this again highly weaponized

[14:12] >> so the FBI has been interviewing

[14:14] disgruntled scientists and people who

[14:16] had maybe a grudge against the USA.

[14:19] That's their tact right now.

[14:20] >> That's their profile. That's the profile

[14:22] that they established early on.

[14:24] You have to understand, you know, we've

[14:25] been on this since about October 5th

[14:28] when the first victim died in Florida.

[14:29] So it's been a long and and grueling

[14:32] path. But they they fairly early on came

[14:34] on with the idea that this was somebody

[14:35] disgruntled.

[14:37] You know, it it

[14:38] the attacks themselves, the postal

[14:40] attacks look a lot like the hoaxes. You

[14:43] know, there've been thousands and

[14:44] thousands of hoaxes.

[14:46] And the postal attacks look like the

[14:47] hoaxes and everybody believes that when

[14:49] you look at the profile of the people

[14:51] who do the hoaxes that these are really

[14:53] disgruntled people with a lot of anger

[14:56] and they want to work anonymously and

[14:58] they But if you have a mad scientist out

[15:01] there, I mean that's really frightening.

[15:02] I mean somebody who knows how to make

[15:03] this stuff up and has got maybe a cache

[15:05] of it and and can strike at anytime.

[15:07] See, I felt in the beginning that it

[15:08] wasn't Al-Qaeda operation because of the

[15:10] timing of it.

[15:11] >> Right. The timing of it looked very

[15:13] suspicious. The Florida Mocao looked

[15:15] very suspicious.

[15:16] It doesn't seem to be playing out that

[15:19] way.

[15:20] But it's not necessarily true that this

[15:22] person

[15:23] uh is making it in his garage or

[15:25] something like that. It it it would be

[15:27] much more likely that somebody would

[15:28] have taken it from a laboratory

[15:30] >> Sure. where it had been developed.

[15:32] >> And stored it somewhere just uh and

[15:34] could wreak havoc whenever he or she

[15:35] wanted to.

[15:36] >> Exactly. Exactly.

[15:37] >> are we messing with the anthrax to begin

[15:39] with? Why do we have these top secret uh

[15:41] places where they're making it?

[15:43] Well, it all goes back to the investment

[15:45] that the United States made in

[15:47] biological weapons uh at the during

[15:49] World War II and then for the next 20

[15:51] years or so uh we took this terrible

[15:53] disease anthrax and really perfected it

[15:56] as a weapon. But in 1969 uh Richard

[15:59] Nixon renounced biological weapons. That

[16:01] is offensive biological weapons

[16:04] research. But one of the things we've

[16:06] held on to is called defensive

[16:08] biological weapons work, which means

[16:10] that we claim the right to have um

[16:14] secret programs which will help us test

[16:17] uh masks or vaccines or other kinds of

[16:20] protective equipment and so forth.

[16:21] >> Against Yeah, against something

[16:23] somebody. Now, do you believe Saddam

[16:24] Hussein has the anthrax and all this

[16:25] other business over there? Well, I think

[16:27] that's a really important question and I

[16:29] know there are people who know much more

[16:30] about it than I do who feel that he has

[16:32] probably developed it. Yeah. Okay. So,

[16:34] but in your opinion, I mean, you're

[16:36] being modest, but you're one of the

[16:37] world's experts on this. Do you believe

[16:39] that he has the stuff? I think there's

[16:41] nothing to keep him from having it.

[16:43] We have no way of getting in there. We

[16:45] have no restraints on that person. Uh we

[16:47] also have no restraints on anybody now

[16:50] uh and developing nations that would

[16:51] want to get into biological weapons. And

[16:54] unfortunately, these anthrax attacks

[16:55] have given a very good demonstration of

[16:57] how disruptive and destructive they are.

[17:00] >> they are. But it isn't easy to develop

[17:02] anthrax, is it?

[17:03] It's not that easy, but relative to

[17:05] nuclear weapons, it's uh it's more easy

[17:07] than developing nuclear weapons for

[17:09] certain. Yeah.

[17:10] >> All right, Ms. Gillen, thanks very much.

[17:11] We appreciate it. Thank you. Directly

[17:13] ahead, conservative Congressman Dan

[17:14] Burton and liberal Congressman Barney

[17:16] Frank actually agree on something.

[17:19] President Bush should not be protecting

[17:21] the FBI and Bill Clinton by using

[17:22] executive privilege. A report coming

[17:24] your way next, but first, a special

[17:26] hello to our servicemen around the world

[17:28] watching us on the Armed Forces Network.

[17:34] Merry Christmas, Dad. We love you and we

[17:35] miss you. We can't wait to see you.

[17:38] I love you, Dad. I love you. I love you,

[17:41] Dad. I love you.

[17:42] >> [crying]

[17:42] >> I love you, Dad.

[17:44] I love you.

[17:46] Merry Christmas, Dad. I hope you have a

[17:47] fun holiday.

[17:49] See you soon. All right. Bye. We love

[17:51] you. Bye. We love you.

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[20:11] The Impact segment tonight, it's not

[20:12] often you get Dan Burton and Barney

[20:14] Frank to agree on anything, but both

[20:15] congressmen are angry. The President

[20:17] Bush has used executive privilege to

[20:18] block a congressional review of

[20:20] documents relating to President

[20:21] Clinton's fundraising tactics and an FBI

[20:24] scandal in Boston. Most of you know

[20:26] about the fundraising. The Boston story

[20:27] concerns two FBI informants who were

[20:29] allowed to commit terrible crimes while

[20:31] on the federal payroll. Joining us now

[20:32] from Washington is Congressman Barney

[20:34] Frank of Massachusetts. To fill uh

[20:36] people in on the bad guys, I mean,

[20:37] Whitey Bulger, notorious in New England

[20:39] and Boston for being a killer, an adult

[20:41] dealer, and everything else. And uh

[20:43] Flemy, the Rifleman, another assassin.

[20:46] Um are you as angry as uh as uh

[20:49] Congressman Burton that uh President

[20:51] Clinton's not going to uh President Bush

[20:52] is not going to let us get to the bottom

[20:53] of this?

[20:54] I am. I admire Dan Burton's non-partisan

[20:57] commitment in this. And it's

[20:58] particularly troublesome at this point,

[21:00] though, because as you know, we've just

[21:02] been debating the need, given the mass

[21:04] murders that we were victimized by, to

[21:06] give the FBI more powers and I think

[21:08] every American feels a little

[21:09] conflicted. You want we need to be

[21:11] protected. And we are giving the FBI and

[21:13] we have given the FBI significant new

[21:15] powers of surveillance over individuals,

[21:17] the ability to monitor the internet to

[21:20] do more surveillance on phones. And what

[21:22] you would hope would be that at the same

[21:24] time that you gave them the more powers,

[21:26] you could have a high degree of

[21:27] confidence in how they were they were

[21:28] using them. Unfortunately,

[21:30] there are series of things that have

[21:32] come out which show the FBI making

[21:34] terrible mistakes. And you know, no

[21:36] institution of human beings going to be

[21:37] perfect, but what the FBI seems to be

[21:40] arguing is that they're almost uniquely

[21:43] immune from any kind of supervision. And

[21:45] they they somehow got the president to

[21:47] buy into this. I I would have hoped that

[21:49] maybe this is because he is

[21:50] understandably preoccupied with with the

[21:52] Afghanistan situation, but he signed a

[21:54] sweeping order which basically

[21:56] interferes with our ability to find out

[21:58] about really outrageous decisions the

[22:00] FBI made 10 and 15 and 20 years ago.

[22:03] >> And here's how outrageous it was. A man

[22:04] named Joseph Salvati spent 30 years in

[22:07] prison for murder he did not commit in

[22:09] Boston. And the FBI knew he was

[22:11] innocent. They knew he was innocent. And

[22:13] they would not give the evidence up to

[22:16] free this man. He's sitting in jail

[22:18] because they didn't want to burn Bulger

[22:20] and Fleming who were informing on the

[22:23] mafia, the New England mafia, the

[22:25] Patriarca family of

[22:28] of Providence, Rhode Island. That's

[22:30] that's what Fleming and Bulger were

[22:31] doing for the FBI. So they let this guy

[22:33] rot in jail for 30 years. That's

[22:34] outrageous. It is. And and there were

[22:37] other examples of this where

[22:38] we have one case where this one just

[22:40] particularly renewed my sense of of just

[22:43] frustrated anger. A man was killed

[22:46] almost certainly by Bulger and Fleming.

[22:48] It may have been that the FBI tipped

[22:49] them off. It had to do with with gun

[22:50] running for the IRA, the Irish

[22:52] Republican Army. And this guy may have

[22:55] thought he was helping law enforcement

[22:56] by giving a tip about Bulger and

[22:58] Fleming. Instead, the FBI told Bulger

[23:00] and Fleming apparently, that's the

[23:02] allegation, and and they killed them.

[23:03] >> Yeah. And now it's come out.

[23:05] >> FBI could be implicated in murder

[23:07] itself, right? Exactly. And the the

[23:09] man's widow and family have now sued the

[23:11] federal government and said, "Look, you

[23:13] you caused my husband to be killed." The

[23:16] FBI got the Justice Department to give

[23:17] the most incredible answer. You know

[23:18] what the answer is? You can't sue us

[23:20] because it's too late. This happened too

[23:22] long ago, and your time to bring suit

[23:24] has passed. But they couldn't have

[23:25] brought suit because the FBI was

[23:27] refusing to give them the information.

[23:28] >> Yeah, they didn't know.

[23:29] >> The FBI had to be forced to give the

[23:30] information. Now they got you with the

[23:32] information.

[23:32] >> question that that that New England FBI

[23:34] scandal is a disgrace. But now we go

[23:37] into President Clinton, who you, you

[23:38] know, obviously had a fairly close

[23:40] relationship with and and supported.

[23:43] He

[23:44] his fundraising tactics, dubious at

[23:46] best. The Burton committee wanted to see

[23:49] the emails, they wanted to see, you

[23:50] know, who called in, the the commerce

[23:53] back and forth. And President Bush has

[23:55] shot all that down. And, you know, I

[23:58] think Americans are going to wait a

[23:59] minute here. We want an honest

[24:00] government. We don't want one powerful

[24:02] person protecting another.

[24:04] I'll tell you what what strikes me, uh

[24:06] and I think all this information ought

[24:08] to be be brought forward. I thought some

[24:09] of it ought to have been brought forward

[24:10] under Clinton.

[24:11] I've run into this before. I ran into it

[24:13] with Clinton about George Bush

[24:16] previously, and now Bush about Clinton.

[24:18] The bureaucracy kind of gets together,

[24:21] and they persuade presidents that it's

[24:22] in their interest to protect the

[24:24] mistakes of former presidents.

[24:26] >> One of the things that President Bush

[24:27] has now done, which is again outraged

[24:29] Dan Burton and me and and a lot of

[24:31] others. We passed a law that said, "The

[24:32] rule will be after 12 years you release

[24:35] presidential documents unless they're in

[24:36] some specific category of, you know,

[24:38] national security, etc." President Bush

[24:41] is now, I think, clearly violating that

[24:42] statute by saying, "No, we're not going

[24:44] to release that information." And again,

[24:47] it just has a

[24:48] there is this let's all in the

[24:50] bureaucracy protect each other.

[24:52] >> protect each other. But the Marc Rich

[24:55] part is involved in this President

[24:57] Clinton fundraising deal. Because that's

[25:00] part of what Burton wanted to do. See

[25:02] how much money flowed in to President

[25:04] Clinton and his wife from the rich

[25:07] people of friends and what.

[25:09] >> there was one one issue there where they

[25:10] might have a problem and that is as you

[25:12] probably know there was a grand jury now

[25:13] looking into the Mark Rich situation.

[25:15] >> pardon is true. Where there's an ongoing

[25:17] grand jury, then there may be reason for

[25:19] us not to not go after it, but

[25:22] temporarily withhold. Congress made a

[25:24] mistake a few years ago for example with

[25:25] Don of the North and others. Congress

[25:27] tried to run an investigation

[25:28] simultaneously with a prosecution and

[25:30] the court correctly wound up saying,

[25:32] "Look, you interfered with these

[25:33] people's constitutional rights. You

[25:35] can't do that. You got to have them done

[25:36] sequentially." But I I want to stress

[25:38] again, brother, we're not just doing

[25:40] this as you know because we're kind of

[25:42] interested in in in in finding things

[25:44] out. We are in the process of giving law

[25:46] enforcement in America much more power.

[25:49] We have to do that in our own

[25:50] self-defense. But it is very scary to be

[25:53] told that you have to give them more

[25:54] power. But you cannot have any oversight

[25:57] over them.

[25:57] >> hold them accountable for what they do.

[25:59] >> Yes, they can't hold them accountable.

[26:00] Listen. You make them more powerful and

[26:02] less accountable at the same time.

[26:03] >> All right, Congressman. Hey, this is the

[26:04] first time I think you and me and Dan

[26:06] Burton have ever agreed on anything.

[26:07] Well, we'll have to get together again

[26:09] some Christmas. Yeah, probably Christmas

[26:11] that did it. All right, Congressman,

[26:13] happy holidays to you.

[26:15] >> All right. Plenty more ahead as a factor

[26:16] moves along this evening. The spin is

[26:18] already in motion regarding American

[26:19] Taliban John Walker. We'll tell you

[26:21] about that. And who's looking out for

[26:23] us? Once again, Congress letting the

[26:24] country down by failing to pass an

[26:27] economic stimulus package. Whose fault

[26:30] is it? We'll tell you and we hope you

[26:32] stay tuned for those reports.

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[28:58] >> Join Oliver North for War Stories,

[29:00] Bandages on the Battlefield.

[29:02] The stage is set in Afghanistan, but

[29:04] what role should America play? For the

[29:06] information you need, turn to the team

[29:08] you trust, Team Washington, only on the

[29:11] Fox News Channel.

[29:13] The personal choice segment tonight, Fox

[29:15] News has learned that the Justice

[29:16] Department is leaning toward charging

[29:18] American Taliban guy John Walker with

[29:20] providing material support to terrorists

[29:22] and not treason. But is this the right

[29:24] thing to do? Joining us now from

[29:26] Raleigh, North Carolina is former

[29:27] federal prosecutor Eric Muller, the

[29:29] author of Free to Die for Their Country.

[29:32] Professor Muller teaches law at the

[29:33] University of North Carolina.

[29:35] So, we're getting a kind of a

[29:36] watered-down thing here with this Walker

[29:38] guy. How do you see it, Professor? Well,

[29:40] that's that's the way it's looking.

[29:42] That's what the reports are that they're

[29:43] going to go with providing material

[29:45] support instead of treason. Uh

[29:46] obviously, the people within the

[29:47] government know a lot more than we do

[29:49] about the facts, and so we're all left

[29:50] to speculate, but uh it seems to me that

[29:53] there uh based on what we do know, uh

[29:55] there is enough there for a treason

[29:57] prosecution, and in historical context,

[29:59] which is sort of my area of expertise,

[30:02] Japanese-American situation during World

[30:03] War II,

[30:04] uh I think that this is a much clearer

[30:06] case of treason actually than many of

[30:08] the cases that were brought against

[30:09] Japanese-Americans during World War II.

[30:11] Uh so, I'm a little bit perplexed

[30:12] actually, Bill, about why this is being

[30:14] handled in the way it's being handled.

[30:16] >> right, but let's let's examine. You feel

[30:17] that that Walker's getting special

[30:19] treatment because he's a son of a

[30:20] prominent Marin County, California guy

[30:23] and all of that? Well, I don't know that

[30:25] it has a whole lot to do with who his

[30:26] parents are, uh but it is perplexing to

[30:29] me that people, for example, during

[30:31] World War II, who did nothing more than

[30:33] uh give a lift and a road map to German

[30:36] escape German POWs, were hauled in and

[30:39] charged with treason if they were

[30:40] Japanese-Americans.

[30:42] Uh but now this young white fellow uh

[30:45] comes along and we hear a fair amount of

[30:47] sympathy and compassion out there that

[30:48] oh, he was confused and he was uh maybe

[30:52] uh not in his right mind and he may have

[30:53] been under duress. Uh,

[30:55] it does seem uh inconsistent to me uh to

[30:58] back off of a treason charge

[31:01] uh in this setting where you have

[31:03] somebody seemingly firing weapons

[31:05] alongside troops that had anti-aircraft

[31:07] guns pointed at American B-52s,

[31:10] but you will go get for treason against

[31:12] somebody who gives a lift to an escaped

[31:15] German POW.

[31:16] >> I mean I don't think it was just

[31:17] Japanese. Anybody who aided a POW in

[31:19] this country uh during World War II an

[31:22] escaped POW state German uh

[31:25] uh soldier or a spy would have been

[31:27] charged the same way, right?

[31:28] >> Actu- Actually, Bill, it turns out

[31:30] that's not true. There were uh lots of

[31:31] people who were involved in uh were

[31:35] among groups of people who were

[31:36] providing uh shelter, homes, support for

[31:39] escaped POWs who were not prosecuted,

[31:42] but uh when uh a group of a small group

[31:44] of Japanese-American women in Colorado

[31:46] did it in 1943,

[31:48] the government was all over them like a

[31:49] wet blanket.

[31:50] >> That's interesting. All right. Now,

[31:51] let's get back to Walker in the sense

[31:52] that I think most Americans don't feel

[31:54] sorry for this guy. I mean, he at 16 he

[31:57] went over and he wanted to become some

[31:59] kind of Muslim uh

[32:00] fighter fanatic jihad guy, whatever you

[32:02] want to call it. Um he himself doesn't

[32:05] really offer any kind of uh contrition.

[32:08] He's not you know, he's not sorry for

[32:10] what he did. But you do need two

[32:13] witnesses to convict in a uh on a

[32:16] treason um

[32:17] charge, correct? You do. And and and

[32:19] Bill, I think that may be the likeliest

[32:21] explanation for why

[32:23] the uh Justice Department is shying away

[32:25] from a treason charge. But even there,

[32:27] I'm still a little bit perplexed because

[32:29] uh surely uh among the many captives uh

[32:32] who are being held by the American

[32:34] military, Taliban captives, They could

[32:36] come up with a couple of guys.

[32:37] >> There are uh undoubtedly a couple of

[32:40] people among that group who who would be

[32:43] able to testify to what John Walker did

[32:45] or did not do.

[32:46] >> Sure. I you know, I wouldn't charge him

[32:48] for treason. I I

[32:50] I just think the guy is probably

[32:52] emotionally not all there and he doesn't

[32:55] know but I would put him away for

[32:57] between 10 and 20 years. I'd figure out

[32:59] a charge that was going to give him that

[33:01] kind of time. I wouldn't try him here

[33:03] either. I wouldn't bring him back here.

[33:05] I'd try him with the tribunal overseas.

[33:06] The charge that's now being circulated

[33:08] Bill would carry a punishment in that

[33:09] range under the federal sentencing

[33:11] guidelines. So, it may be that the

[33:12] outcome will be to your liking.

[33:13] >> Yeah, I I think I think that's probably

[33:15] fair. The guy's 20 years old. He's an

[33:17] idiot but you know, why kill him? Why

[33:20] hang him? I I don't think I would do

[33:21] that. Anyway, Professor, we appreciate

[33:23] your point of view. Thanks very much for

[33:24] helping us out tonight. Thank you, Bill.

[33:26] In a moment, as a fact that continues

[33:27] once again, Congress fails to pass an

[33:29] economic stimulus package. Now, that

[33:31] sounds boring but a lot of people in

[33:34] trouble economically here getting thrown

[33:35] out of work,

[33:37] way high debt.

[33:38] So, what's going on? Whose fault is

[33:41] this? Whose fault is this? We'll name

[33:44] names we come back.

[34:20] Fox News live, I'm Kiran Chetry. The

[34:21] Taliban and Al-Qaeda are nearly defeated

[34:24] in Afghanistan. Now, the major problem

[34:26] of bringing order to the war-torn

[34:28] country is still ahead. Fox's Dan

[34:30] Springer has more on that for us from

[34:32] Kabul.

[34:32] >> soldiers as part of an international

[34:34] peacekeeping force arrived in

[34:36] Afghanistan Thursday and they're already

[34:38] dogged by controversy, not only

[34:40] concerning the size of the force, but

[34:42] also the amount of authority it will be

[34:44] given. 53 UK soldiers land at the Bagram

[34:47] Airport. They will make it to Kabul,

[34:49] which is about 25 miles away on Friday.

[34:52] Their first duty will be to protect

[34:53] dignitaries as they drive into Kabul for

[34:55] Saturday's inauguration. The UN Security

[34:58] Council authorized the force for a

[35:00] period of up to 6 months, but the

[35:02] resolution did not clear up the sticky

[35:04] issue of size and the use of force.

[35:07] Britain and the US want 5,000 troops and

[35:10] they want the soldiers to have the

[35:11] authority to use force if there is a

[35:13] threat. The incoming Defense Minister of

[35:16] Afghanistan, Mohammad Fahim, said again

[35:18] today that the force should be limited

[35:21] to 1,000 soldiers and those troops will

[35:23] not have the authority to use force or

[35:26] take weapons from Afghans. Fahim wants

[35:28] the troops to be restricted to

[35:30] bodyguards for the members of the new

[35:32] government. In Kabul, Dan Springer, Fox

[35:34] News. And that is our update. We'll be

[35:36] back again for you coming up at the top

[35:38] of the hour. The O'Reilly Factor

[35:40] continues after the break.

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[37:42] All right, sir, staying with us is Bill

[37:44] O'Reilly in the second unresolved

[37:45] problems segment tonight. The bad

[37:47] economy, USA is in a recession, we all

[37:48] know that. President Bush wants an

[37:50] economic stimulus package to jump-start

[37:52] corporate America. House has passed one

[37:54] that would include a tax cut for

[37:56] corporations, extended unemployment

[37:58] benefits and tax credits for workers who

[38:00] lose health insurance, but doesn't look

[38:02] like the Senate's going to pass that as

[38:04] Majority Leader Tom Daschle doesn't like

[38:05] it. With us now is the chairman of the

[38:07] Democratic National Committee, Terry

[38:09] McAuliffe. So, it's Daschle against

[38:10] Bush, who's the villain, right? Now, I

[38:12] know what you're going to say, but hey,

[38:14] this is a corporate welfare bill the

[38:16] Republicans

[38:16] >> Well, I I got to stop it. So, listen, I

[38:18] want to keep it simple. I want to keep

[38:19] it simple.

[38:20] >> out there fighting for the people. am.

[38:21] And

[38:21] >> the folks to get a good representation,

[38:23] not all this political garbage that I

[38:25] see in day in day out.

[38:27] You know, you know that the reason

[38:30] President Clinton was so successful and

[38:32] popular is because the economy was so

[38:34] strong. And the reason that economy was

[38:36] so strong was that the corporations were

[38:38] buying equipment, investing in research

[38:40] and development, and hiring people. All

[38:41] right? You know that. That's a fact. So,

[38:44] why don't you want that to happen again?

[38:46] Listen, we wanted target it targeted tax

[38:49] cuts timely tax cuts. We wanted to be

[38:51] temporary. We wanted tax cuts to go to

[38:53] small business. Listen, today Ford is

[38:55] sitting on 13. billion dollars of cash

[38:58] reserves. They just laid off 20,000

[39:00] people. If you give them more money,

[39:03] that does not mean the people are going

[39:04] to start buying their cars.

[39:06] >> So, you don't trust the corporations if

[39:08] they get the tax break that Bush wants

[39:10] to give them. You don't trust them to

[39:12] start to buy again, to start to reignite

[39:14] the They're all sitting on cash. GE is

[39:16] sitting on a 90 billion dollars of cash.

[39:19] If you give them another billion

[39:20] dollars, Bill, doesn't mean we need

[39:22] consumers. We need people going out

[39:24] buying appliances. We need people buying

[39:26] cars. We don't need to have a big

[39:28] corporate welfare program. And that's

[39:29] the difference between the

[39:30] >> going to get people to go out and buy

[39:31] the cars if you don't pass an economic

[39:34] stimulus package? How? We wanted an

[39:37] economic stimulus package. We wanted

[39:39] 150% of ours had tax cuts in it for the

[39:42] people who needed it the most.

[39:43] >> Yeah, but you wanted it down downloaded

[39:45] to the people who don't have much money.

[39:47] They're not going to buy the $50,000

[39:50] cars. They're not going to buy the big

[39:52] computers. But they are going to buy.

[39:54] They're going to go to that neighborhood

[39:55] grocery store and put money back right

[39:57] into the system. That's not going to

[39:58] really get us out of the recession.

[39:59] >> Sure it is. If you have enough people

[40:00] going out buying, allowing the big

[40:03] corporations to have more cash reserves

[40:05] does nothing. We don't need to reward

[40:07] the big campaign contributors. Listen,

[40:09] the fix was in for the start. The

[40:10] Republicans never wanted a bill. Now

[40:12] they're out attacking time Daschle.

[40:14] >> Wait a minute. How can you say the

[40:15] Republicans didn't want a bill when the

[40:17] House of Representatives, Republican

[40:19] dominated, passed the version? Passed

[40:22] it. Their bill was corporate welfare. It

[40:24] had an alternative minimum tax in it.

[40:25] >> What did you do before?

[40:26] >> out It went back retroactively 15 years.

[40:29] It also said, "Okay, we'll extend

[40:31] healthcare benefits, but we'll do it as

[40:32] a tax credit." But, you know what? The

[40:34] people who are affected don't pay any

[40:36] taxes because they don't have any money

[40:37] coming in. And you know what? They won't

[40:39] even apply till later part of '02. So,

[40:41] what What this comes down to is that you

[40:43] don't believe in supply-side economics.

[40:45] And you don't believe that corporate

[40:47] America drives the economic machine. You

[40:49] don't believe that.

[40:50] >> I think in the economic situation we're

[40:51] in today, it has to be consumer-driven.

[40:54] >> All right. A lot of people out of work.

[40:55] 2 million people out of work since

[40:56] January 20th. We got to help them get

[40:58] confidence back. They go out, start

[41:00] buying, then

[41:01] >> you say we got to help them, that means

[41:02] you're going to give them money, see?

[41:04] And that comes out of the pockets of

[41:06] working Americans. Every time you give

[41:08] somebody something, somebody pays for

[41:09] that. Listen, the Republicans had the

[41:11] biggest giveaway of money in that House

[41:13] bill that you've ever seen. Ours is

[41:16] targeted to go to the people who need

[41:17] it. Ours was also targeted to small

[41:19] business for plant and equipment

[41:21] investment. Huge tax rebates for small

[41:23] Listen, 90% of our business is small

[41:25] business.

[41:26] >> All right. It's It's a philosophical

[41:27] difference.

[41:28] >> Philosophical. Consumers versus

[41:29] corporations.

[41:30] >> right.

[41:31] >> That's your difference.

[41:32] >> So, it seems to me that if people cared

[41:34] about the country and not just politics,

[41:35] power politics, that they would meet in

[41:37] the middle. That they would meet in the

[41:39] middle. But, Daschle doesn't even want

[41:40] to put it up on the floor.

[41:42] There are not the votes to pass what we

[41:44] need. We're not Well, why doesn't he put

[41:45] it up and bat it around like we're

[41:47] batting it around here? So, you're going

[41:49] to get nothing. And everyone's going to

[41:51] suffer. Everyone's going to suffer

[41:53] because you pinheads in Washington, both

[41:55] parties, are more interested in your

[41:57] party.

[41:59] It doesn't matter. You're a Democrat.

[42:00] You're a You're more interested in

[42:01] blaming. Hey, I'm not for blaming.

[42:03] >> No, a month ago you were going to Well,

[42:05] let's use the Bush recession business,

[42:07] which was the the I think it's the Bush

[42:09] recession Come on. I got internal memos

[42:11] from the DNC saying we're going to call

[42:12] it the Bush recession. You know that's

[42:14] true. Don't give me that.

[42:15] >> Listen, Bill, they walked out of the

[42:16] White House 2 months ago.

[42:18] 2 months ago, the Democrats and

[42:20] Republicans, George Bush does well, he's

[42:22] got a 90% approval rating. We got

[42:23] airline security. We've got a homeland

[42:25] security bill cuz we worked together.

[42:27] >> That's right.

[42:28] >> And you know what? It fell apart on this

[42:30] bill. We could not come together because

[42:31] it's a difference of opinion of who

[42:33] should get the money. President Bush

[42:35] went and spoke to the House Caucus

[42:36] yesterday. Do you know he didn't even

[42:38] mention the economic stimulus bill? I

[42:40] just found it astounding. Now all they

[42:42] want to do is blame, blame, blame,

[42:43] blame.

[42:43] >> They do. Everybody wants to You You want

[42:45] to blame the president.

[42:46] >> What about the Senate? What about Tom

[42:47] Daschle? What about Tom Daschle? All

[42:48] right. And I understand that and it and

[42:50] it just makes me furious. Now look,

[42:52] >> with you. I don't understand why you

[42:53] guys can't say, "Okay, we'll compromise.

[42:55] We'll give the corporations a bit of a

[42:57] tax break and then we'll bring up the

[42:59] poor the poorer people in America. We'll

[43:01] give them a little bit more incentive, a

[43:03] little bit cash." Why can't that happen?

[43:05] It should have happened. And they should

[43:06] instead of trying to do an extension of

[43:08] the health care benefits, talk about a

[43:10] tax rebate which meant nothing. If they

[43:11] could have worked with us and really got

[43:13] the money out there for the extension of

[43:15] health care benefits, we could have

[43:16] worked together. We could have had a

[43:17] bill. We got close on this bill.

[43:19] >> spending though. I mean, come on. This

[43:21] bill is already budgeted at 90 billion

[43:23] the way it is. 90 billion the way it is.

[43:25] You guys want to double that.

[43:27] >> bill for the Republicans that they

[43:28] talked about yesterday was 200 billion.

[43:30] What are you talking about? It's your

[43:32] Republican White House.

[43:33] >> pass a bill that is 90 billion. That

[43:36] seems reasonable to me. Yesterday tried

[43:38] to do a bill for 200 billion and as you

[43:40] know, the conservatives in the Congress

[43:42] walked away from it.

[43:43] >> Well, they couldn't even get the House

[43:44] to come out with a new bill cuz they

[43:45] knew they made a mistake in only a turn

[43:47] of men on tax. Let's go back 15 years

[43:49] retroactively. These corporations are

[43:51] sitting on huge cash reserves, Bill.

[43:53] That's because they're afraid.

[43:54] >> people spend it. Let's spend the cash

[43:56] together. Let's not give them another

[43:57] billion.

[43:58] >> They're going to spend They're not going

[43:58] to spend the cash in this kind of a

[44:00] climate. They're going to sit on it, get

[44:02] the interest, and keep their

[44:03] stockholders

[44:04] >> We need to get people working today. We

[44:07] need to get money to people today to get

[44:08] things going. They gave $254 million

[44:12] back to Enron. Do you think that is

[44:14] going to get economic stimulus to give

[44:15] Ken Lay and Enron more money?

[44:18] We're looking at We're looking at it.

[44:20] But if you think that giving money

[44:21] directly to poor Americans so they can

[44:24] run down to the grocery

[44:25] >> poor. It's not These are working These

[44:26] are hard These are people who lost

[44:28] their hard working people. Don't say

[44:30] poor.

[44:30] >> That's right. These are hard working

[44:32] Americans who lost their family and

[44:33] follow their own. There are people who

[44:35] do not pay federal tax, okay? They're

[44:37] below the federal tax level. They don't

[44:39] pay any money to the federal government.

[44:40] >> And why are those 2 million people there

[44:41] today? Right. They have lost their job

[44:43] through no fault of their own. You

[44:44] cannot blame those people, Bill, because

[44:46] of September 11th who lost their job. I

[44:48] don't call them poor people. There are

[44:50] people who have lost their job through

[44:51] no fault of their own. Those are the

[44:52] people who should be You're not going to

[44:54] get the economy going by creating a

[44:56] bigger welfare state. You're not. You've

[44:59] got I know the corporations are greedy,

[45:01] but you've got to work with them. You

[45:03] Yeah, you've got to work with them.

[45:05] Don't demonize them like you're doing.

[45:07] I'm not demonizing them.

[45:08] >> Sure you are. They don't need more

[45:09] money. Listen, I'm in the upper tax

[45:11] bracket. I'm going to do fine. You want

[45:13] to give me more tax breaks right now? I

[45:14] don't actually need them. You know what?

[45:16] I don't need them. There are other

[45:17] people who need them, Bill. Not for me.

[45:18] The people who need money are

[45:19] >> want any more money for the rich. I want

[45:21] the folks to get I want the folks to get

[45:23] some kind of relief and right now

[45:25] they're not. Nice to see you, Mr.

[45:26] McCaffrey. Thanks for coming in. Take a

[45:27] break.

[45:27] >> you, Bill. Right. Next, one of our guys

[45:29] in Afghanistan just back with some

[45:30] eye-opening war stories in just a few

[45:32] moments.

[45:38] David Miller

[45:39] Greg McCaffrey Erin Burnett William

[45:41] Schneider B. Perigee Bob Dole

[45:44] International

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[48:51] In the back of the book segment tonight,

[48:52] to live and die in Afghanistan. With us

[48:54] now is this correspondent Steve Harrigan

[48:56] who is just back after three long months

[48:59] in that very sad country. Well, we're

[49:01] glad you're back safe. Thank you, Bill.

[49:03] Tell us what life is like for you over

[49:05] there. I mean, you don't there's not a

[49:06] hotel to stay in when you're up in with

[49:09] the Northern Alliance, right?

[49:10] >> That's right. There's no electricity, no

[49:12] TV, no radio. Everything's made of dirt,

[49:14] so you live in a dirt house.

[49:16] There's no distractions. Okay. When you

[49:18] say you live in a dirt house,

[49:20] who owned that house? I don't know who

[49:23] originally owned it, but Northern

[49:24] Alliance soldiers took it over. And you

[49:26] slept on a floor or what?

[49:27] >> Slept in a sleeping bag on the floor.

[49:29] Mhm.

[49:30] Do they have electricity in the house?

[49:32] >> No, the whole place didn't have

[49:34] electricity. No one had electricity. No,

[49:37] you'd go out in the field to go to the

[49:38] bathroom.

[49:38] >> all right? Yeah. Now, what did you carry

[49:40] with you? You had a cell phone,

[49:41] obviously. A cell phone.

[49:42] >> a video phone, cash, uh and a sleeping

[49:46] bag and clothes. Where did you eat? Uh

[49:49] we ate in the room. They'd made us rice

[49:50] and beans just about every day. Rice

[49:52] beans, huh?

[49:53] >> Three times a day. Three guys in a small

[49:55] room. So, it was three guys in the

[49:56] house? Yeah. Okay.

[49:58] Um

[49:59] when you were out there, did you feel

[50:01] that

[50:03] uh these guys

[50:04] were trustworthy or they could turn on

[50:06] you or there was a sense of danger? I

[50:08] felt that they were uh tricky. There was

[50:10] negotiations going on. We were paying

[50:12] them for the room. They wanted to keep

[50:14] us there as long as possible. They

[50:15] actually didn't want us to know about

[50:17] Kabul falling cuz they wanted to keep

[50:19] taking the money.

[50:20] >> then you were paying a translator, too.

[50:22] Right.

[50:22] >> Was he trustworthy?

[50:24] Uh he was and then he started working

[50:26] for another correspondent for Fox who

[50:28] offered him a little more. Is that

[50:29] right? So, you got outbid by your own

[50:30] guy.

[50:31] >> sure how it happened.

[50:33] How did you travel around? So, you had

[50:35] to get down from the north to Kabul. How

[50:36] did you get there? Russian jeep.

[50:38] A tough road. Three days, day and night.

[50:41] So, you just non-stop in a jeep?

[50:43] Non-stop with Mr. Abdul behind the

[50:45] wheel. Who owned the jeep? Uh he did. He

[50:47] bought a new one with the money he made,

[50:49] too.

[50:49] >> All right. So, you paid him to just

[50:50] drive you down there.

[50:51] >> We paid him and the rate went up the

[50:52] higher the altitude went.

[50:54] >> Is that right?

[50:54] >> Every deal I made there changed halfway

[50:57] through. Now, would they feel

[50:58] embarrassment by shaking you down or

[51:00] would they

[51:01] >> I don't think they see it as a shake

[51:02] down. They see, "Let's see how far we

[51:04] can push this guy." And everybody did it

[51:06] the same way.

[51:07] >> But you had to be careful because if you

[51:08] said, "Hey, I'm not paying any more."

[51:09] they'd have thrown you right out, right?

[51:10] >> Yeah, cuz everybody had guns. Everybody

[51:12] had guns, nobody had money. We had no

[51:14] guns, we had money.

[51:15] >> But Geraldo had a gun.

[51:17] Oh. But you didn't have one. I don't

[51:19] know how to shoot. Okay. But I would

[51:20] have just had one just just in case cuz

[51:22] it was dangerous. You could have been

[51:23] ambushed at any time, correct? Yeah. Our

[51:25] own guards hinted around that it's a

[51:27] dangerous ride back to Pakistan. We need

[51:30] a bonus. Okay. So, you had armed guards

[51:32] that you paid. By the end we had 12.

[51:34] Mhm. Two of them had wooden legs. I

[51:36] think it was more like a social welfare

[51:38] program for the local village elder.

[51:40] Do you have any affection for these

[51:42] people of this country at all?

[51:43] Uh the climate's beautiful, the terrain

[51:46] is beautiful, blue skies every day. It

[51:48] was nice to see.

[51:49] But,

[51:51] you know, I'm happy to get out of there

[51:52] alive and no desire to go back.

[51:54] >> Right. People are basically primitive,

[51:57] right? I don't know if the people are

[52:00] primitive, the conditions are

[52:01] unbelievable. I mean, you walk into a

[52:03] town, you think it's an archaeological

[52:05] dig, and then you see people are living

[52:07] there.

[52:08] I always said that people get the

[52:09] government they deserve. But, you have

[52:11] 24 million Afghans and a couple of

[52:13] thousand fanatical Taliban

[52:15] >> You know what? I totally don't buy that.

[52:17] No one deserves 20 years of warfare.

[52:20] 19-year-old guy doesn't know how to

[52:21] read. And what did he do to deserve

[52:24] that? 19 years of warfare. But, if they

[52:26] would just look at life in a way that

[52:29] we're not going to put up with this,

[52:30] we're going to organize, we're going to

[52:31] have a sensible society. Other countries

[52:33] have done that.

[52:35] Well,

[52:36] I don't know how to think

[52:36] >> all fighting among themselves, right?

[52:38] They all hate each other.

[52:39] >> They are, but what are you going to do

[52:40] when you don't know how to read? All

[52:41] you've got is a gun, you've been

[52:42] fighting your whole life.

[52:44] >> learn how to read if I didn't know.

[52:45] Well, I might try I might try to learn

[52:47] how to read. I'm I'm just a self-reliant

[52:48] person. Now, in the future

[52:51] >> You know, I'd like to put you in

[52:52] Afghanistan and see how far that

[52:54] self-reliance goes. I think that's

[52:55] making a tremendous demand on people to

[52:57] say that. They put me in El Salvador and

[53:00] they put me in Argentina when there was

[53:02] riots going on and they put me in a lot

[53:03] of other places and I and I made it.

[53:05] But, the the fact of the matter is I

[53:07] didn't feel compassion for people who

[53:09] allowed terrible things to happen around

[53:11] them. I always said, "Hey, you got to

[53:12] take You got to take it and sooner or

[53:14] later you got to take a stand."

[53:17] I I disagree with you. You go over

[53:19] there, you're born there with in that

[53:21] kind of climate, the odds are a billion

[53:23] to one against you.

[53:24] >> Yeah. I mean, what? One out of four

[53:26] babies don't make it to age five. That's

[53:28] true.

[53:29] >> they're not self-reliant? No, it's

[53:30] because the

[53:31] >> the babies' fault. It's the adults'

[53:32] fault.

[53:33] >> Yeah. I mean, I just Maybe I'm wrong,

[53:35] but I you know, you've been on Main

[53:36] Street since you left.

[53:37] It's it's an interesting world. Well,

[53:39] glad you're back safe, Steve. Dave.

[53:40] Okay, cheers.

[53:42] Next, we'll wrap things up with the most

[53:43] ridiculous item of the day and some of

[53:44] your mail. And here's another greeting

[53:46] from our troops overseas watching us on

[53:48] the Armed Forces Network. Hi, this

[53:50] message is for our Marine though.

[53:52] We just wanted to wish him a Merry

[53:54] Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[53:56] Uh,

[53:57] we wish you were here.

[53:59] Um,

[54:00] please take care and

[54:02] know that we're thinking of you. Be

[54:03] safe. Say Merry Christmas.

[54:05] Merry Christmas.

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[56:12] This weekend

[56:13] >> Too many Americans are hurting, are

[56:15] worried about their jobs. People need

[56:16] help.

[56:17] >> Your job, your money. Is your financial

[56:19] security in jeopardy? In tough times,

[56:21] stay with the number one team in

[56:23] business. The team you can trust.

[56:26] Saturday, the road to recovery, the

[56:27] stocks that could stop you cold, and

[56:29] tips on maximizing your yield on Bulls

[56:31] and Bears. Then, on Cavuto on Business,

[56:33] Ingraham and Maureen O'Connell. You

[56:35] calling me Elvis? Cavuto versus

[56:37] O'Reilly. This won't be pretty. War on

[56:39] terror, the cost of freedom, a Fox News

[56:41] business special.

[56:43] Time now for the most ridiculous item of

[56:44] the day. It was a big bash last night at

[56:46] the White House, and your humble

[56:47] correspondent, that's me, was on the

[56:48] scene along with most of the national

[56:50] press corps. It was the annual Christmas

[56:52] party for the press, so nearly everyone

[56:54] was invited, including Alan Colmes. And

[56:56] that impressed me. Bush administration

[56:58] seemingly doesn't hold grudges the way

[56:59] the Clintons did. Alan's no fan of Mr.

[57:01] Bush, but there he was, munching shrimp

[57:04] cocktail alongside Matt Lauer and Wolf

[57:06] Blitzer.

[57:07] If I had tried to crash the Clinton

[57:09] Christmas party, I'd be Leavenworth

[57:10] right now, doing strong time, and that

[57:13] of course would be ridiculous. Finally,

[57:15] tonight the mail. About the firing of

[57:17] Professor Sami Al-Arian at the

[57:18] University of South Florida. Rhonda

[57:19] Burnham, St. Petersburg, Florida.

[57:21] O'Reilly, it appears to me that you

[57:23] might be backpedaling on the man. We

[57:25] don't need another investigation. His

[57:26] own words and associations are enough to

[57:28] warrant his dismissal. I disagree, with

[57:30] Burnham. You don't sack a tenured

[57:31] professor for saying stuff you don't

[57:33] like. Professor Al-Arian should receive

[57:34] due process and a thorough

[57:36] investigation. Peter Cornwell, Austin,

[57:38] Texas. Hey Bill, I can't understand why

[57:39] our government has not questioned Sami.

[57:41] Also, why hasn't Governor Jeb Bush done

[57:43] something? I don't have the answers for

[57:44] you, Mr. Cornwell. Very strange

[57:46] situation that Florida authorities want

[57:47] to go away. That's why they're firing

[57:49] him. I suspect an investigation would

[57:51] embarrass the state of Florida. Bobby

[57:53] Hilliman, Orlando, Florida. Are you

[57:55] proud of yourself now, O'Reilly? Your

[57:57] biased interrogation has led to the

[57:58] dismissal of Professor Al-Arian. His

[58:00] crime, free speech. There's nothing

[58:02] biased about our report on the

[58:04] professor. As always, we presented the

[58:06] facts. Patty Casey, Grand Rapids,

[58:08] Michigan. Bill, I love the factor, but

[58:10] you should have approached the Al-Arian

[58:11] story with a little more tact. Your

[58:13] harsh words about the university stirred

[58:15] the pot. So what, Ms. Casey? That pot

[58:16] needed to be stirred. Remember the

[58:18] factor is a no spin zone. Tact, not part

[58:21] of that. About the man who lost his

[58:23] brother at the World Trade Center, but

[58:24] opposes our military campaign against

[58:25] the Taliban. Melissa McCloud, Atlanta.

[58:27] Bill, Mr. Po Mr. Potorti does not

[58:30] understand that it was the USA's failure

[58:32] to respond with military force to the

[58:34] escalating terrorism that led to 9/11.

[58:36] We embolden terrorists if we do nothing.

[58:38] John Cummins, Richland, Washington. I

[58:40] have sympathy for Mr. Potorti losing his

[58:42] brother, but if we don't bring the

[58:43] terrorists to justice, other families

[58:45] will suffer. We must fight for our

[58:46] freedom. Rich Cairo, Camp Hill,

[58:48] Pennsylvania. O'Reilly, your claim of

[58:50] political neutrality is starting to lose

[58:51] its luster. As a moderate Democrat, I'm

[58:53] seeing a string of people who want to

[58:55] ban Santa Claus, stop the Afghan

[58:56] bonding, and the like. These folks do

[58:58] not represent liberal thinking. Well,

[59:00] nobody said they did, Mr. Cairo, because

[59:02] we're independent. We go after all

[59:03] fallacious thinking, and we don't care

[59:05] what ideology it belongs to. Jim

[59:07] Buckler, Kenner, Louisiana. Bill, you

[59:09] are smug. You're a smart, meticulous,

[59:11] unambiguous guy. Well, thank you, Jim.

[59:13] I'll take that. And Grandma Jackie,

[59:15] Lebanon, Tennessee. O'Reilly, you're so

[59:17] smug, I'd like to give you a hug.

[59:20] Well, I'll take that, too, Grandma.

[59:21] Merry Christmas to you.

[59:22] And how about hugging our website, huh?

[59:25] Just finished a brand new column for

[59:26] worldnetdaily.com

[59:28] on the attack on Christmas. It's

[59:31] unbelievable what's going on in this

[59:33] country. People want to tear down

[59:36] Christmas. I don't

[59:38] I get it, but I don't like it. So,

[59:40] that's what the column's about. All

[59:42] right. How about emailing us with some

[59:43] feedback?

[59:44] [email protected] [email protected]

[59:48] Name and town. Name and town. Name and

[59:50] town if you wish to you. That's it for

[59:52] us today. As always, we thank you for

[59:54] watching The Factor. I'm Bill O'Reilly.

[59:58] We'll see you again next time.