Nightline (ABC) - 1999-06-03

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:01] Finally tonight, meet the new Rose

[0:03] Festival Queen.

[0:04] >> Amber Starks from Cleveland High School.

[0:08] >> Amber is an accomplished track athlete,

[0:10] a cheerleader, and a long-time member of

[0:12] the I Have a Dream Foundation. In her

[0:14] acceptance speech, Amber asked neighbors

[0:16] to celebrate their communities through

[0:18] volunteer efforts. She's hoping to

[0:20] attend Hawaii Pacific University to

[0:22] study marine biology. Amber Starks from

[0:25] Cleveland High School. Congratulations.

[0:27] >> And that's it for Channel 2 News at 11.

[0:29] Thanks for sticking it out with us

[0:30] tonight. Have a good night. [laughter]

[0:35] >> [music]

[0:36] >> Fisher Broadcasting.

[0:41] >> June 3rd,

[0:42] 1999.

[0:45] Peace.

[0:46] >> Yugoslavia may be talking the talk, but

[0:50] based on our past experience,

[0:53] we must also be cautious.

[0:55] >> This is a time for caution, not

[0:57] celebration.

[0:57] >> For now, we will remain cautious.

[0:59] >> But Washington wants to see the Serb

[1:01] army

[1:02] >> [music]

[1:02] >> walk the walk.

[1:03] >> At this point, not a single Serb soldier

[1:06] has withdrawn from Kosovo.

[1:07] >> Verifiable deeds, not seductive words,

[1:10] [music] are the only currency that

[1:12] counts

[1:13] in this conflict.

[1:15] >> Is it too good to be true?

[1:16] >> If this were to break down, the

[1:18] president has said

[1:19] that we're not going to fail. We have to

[1:21] win.

[1:21] >> [music]

[1:23] >> Tonight,

[1:24] is Yugoslavia on the brink of peace?

[1:29] >> [music]

[1:33] >> From ABC News,

[1:38] this is Nightline. [music]

[1:41] Reporting from Washington,

[1:43] Ted Koppel.

[1:46] >> Slobodan Milosevic is certainly [music]

[1:47] not known in the international community

[1:50] as a man whose word is his bond.

[1:52] >> [music]

[1:53] >> Throughout the '90s, he has made any

[1:54] number of commitments in the face of

[1:56] international pressure only to ignore

[1:59] them once the pressure has eased.

[2:01] Certainly for these last 70 days or so,

[2:04] the president of Yugoslavia has been

[2:05] under more intense pressure than at any

[2:08] time in his presidency. His air force

[2:11] has been largely destroyed as have his

[2:13] country's power plants and oil storage

[2:15] facilities. Some of the buildings in

[2:18] which he, his friends and family worked

[2:20] and lived have been bombed.

[2:22] He has been indicted as a war criminal

[2:25] and whether or not the threat was

[2:26] credible, there remains the prospect of

[2:28] a NATO invasion on the ground.

[2:31] Now, however, the question becomes what

[2:33] Milosevic can achieve in defining and

[2:36] settling the terms of a peace agreement.

[2:39] NATO says it won't negotiate with him,

[2:42] but if you wonder what can be salvaged

[2:44] from a military defeat at the hands of a

[2:46] Western alliance, you need look no

[2:48] further than Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

[2:52] The atmosphere today is hopeful, but the

[2:55] Clinton administration is being

[2:57] extremely cautious and not claiming too

[2:59] much too soon.

[3:01] We begin with this report from Nightline

[3:03] correspondent Dave Marash.

[3:06] >> In much of Serbia and especially in

[3:08] Kosovo, this day began like most others

[3:11] these past 10 weeks with NATO war planes

[3:14] overhead.

[3:16] But by mid-morning in Belgrade, the

[3:17] Yugoslav parliament had voted in favor

[3:20] of a proposal for peace backed by

[3:23] President Milosevic's party. The terms

[3:25] dictated by NATO and the European Union

[3:28] were accepted by a nearly two-to-one

[3:30] majority. In vehement opposition,

[3:33] Milosevic's radical nationalist vice

[3:35] premier Vojislav Seselj, leader of a

[3:38] violent paramilitary group as well as a

[3:40] political party. But ABC newsman Bob

[3:43] Woodruff in Belgrade says Seselj's

[3:46] dissent may not matter much.

[3:48] >> Seselj is clearly trying to exploit the

[3:49] anger and the nationalist feelings of

[3:51] certain people here, some military

[3:53] members, possibly soldiers coming back

[3:55] from the war. But the feeling is here he

[3:57] does not have the people to pull this

[3:59] off.

[4:00] >> At NATO headquarters in Brussels, news

[4:02] of the Belgrade vote was greeted with

[4:04] caution.

[4:05] >> NATO has no comment to make at this

[4:07] point

[4:08] and will not do so until the North

[4:11] Atlantic Council has received an

[4:13] authoritative report on the outcome of

[4:17] the talks.

[4:18] >> The same cautious tone at the State

[4:20] Department.

[4:20] >> We're going to be looking for

[4:23] implementation, implementation, and

[4:25] implementation because it is only

[4:27] implementation of NATO's conditions that

[4:30] will lead to a peaceful resolution of

[4:31] this crisis. And what that means in

[4:34] practice with respect to the air

[4:36] campaign is the beginning of a

[4:38] verifiable withdrawal of all military,

[4:41] paramilitary, and police forces from

[4:43] Kosovo according to a rapid timetable.

[4:47] >> Shortly after Rubin's briefing, Russian

[4:49] negotiator Victor Chernomyrdin returned

[4:51] to Moscow from Belgrade. And

[4:53] significantly, Chernomyrdin's stance was

[4:56] defensive, denying that he had sold out

[4:58] the Serbs or Russian interests in

[5:01] pushing NATO's terms for peace.

[5:04] Chernomyrdin drew praise from his fellow

[5:06] mediator, Finnish President Martti

[5:08] Ahtisaari, who revealed the key meeting

[5:10] in the peace process was not the one

[5:12] with Milosevic yesterday in Belgrade,

[5:15] but a much longer one the night before

[5:17] in Germany.

[5:18] >> What was important

[5:21] even if our trip to Belgrade was delayed

[5:24] somewhat

[5:26] that we could present a united front.

[5:29] >> In other words, what was important was

[5:31] to get Chernomyrdin to sing strictly

[5:33] NATO's tune so that in the meeting with

[5:36] Milosevic, the label on the peace offer

[5:38] read take it or leave it.

[5:40] >> Then I was asked whether it would be

[5:42] possible for them to suggest

[5:44] improvements.

[5:46] I had to say in no uncertain terms that

[5:49] I or Mr. Cernamudin didn't have any

[5:52] authority to negotiate this paper. That

[5:55] it was the best offer that the

[5:56] international community was in a

[5:59] position to make.

[6:00] >> Good afternoon. Clearly, this was the

[6:02] music White House ears have been waiting

[6:04] to hear. Within hours of Autissari's

[6:07] news conference, President Clinton

[6:09] personally endorsed the rising tide of

[6:12] careful enthusiasm.

[6:13] >> Movement by the Serbian leadership to

[6:15] accept these conditions

[6:17] established by NATO and the

[6:19] international community

[6:20] is, of course, welcome.

[6:23] But based on our past experience,

[6:27] we must also be cautious.

[6:29] >> Closer to Kosovo, in the refugee camps

[6:31] of Macedonia, reaction was similar. A

[6:34] hopeful desire to return home balanced

[6:37] by skepticism that Milosevic will carry

[6:39] out what he's agreed to. ABC's Sheila

[6:42] McVicar in Macedonia.

[6:44] >> As the news spread throughout the camps

[6:45] this afternoon, people here were very

[6:47] skeptical about this deal. They said to

[6:49] us, "How can we go back to Kosovo and

[6:52] live again with Serbs? Live again in

[6:54] Kosovo knowing that there is even one

[6:56] Serb policeman or one Serb soldier left

[6:59] there after what has happened to us."

[7:00] They talked again about all the trauma

[7:02] that they have endured, about being

[7:03] forced from their homes, seeing their

[7:05] homes burned, the looting, the

[7:07] massacres, the rapes. They said, "How

[7:09] can we go back and live again with

[7:10] them?" They wanted, they said, an

[7:12] independent Kosovo. And what this deal

[7:14] does is put them back inside Serbia, and

[7:18] they say that's simply not acceptable.

[7:20] >> The pace of peace may be picking up.

[7:22] NATO commander General Wesley Clark is

[7:25] reported ready to go to Belgrade to

[7:27] negotiate a Serb military withdrawal by

[7:29] this weekend. But even so, late today,

[7:32] both Defense Secretary Cohen

[7:34] >> At this point, not a single Serb soldier

[7:37] has withdrawn from Kosovo, and we have

[7:39] to keep that in mind as we view the

[7:42] uh workings of today.

[7:43] >> And Secretary of State Albright kept the

[7:46] blinking yellow light on their traffic

[7:49] signals.

[7:49] >> That the confrontation cannot end until

[7:52] these terms are complied with and

[7:54] implemented. As a result, caution is the

[7:57] word of the day.

[7:59] >> Why such reticence on what could be seen

[8:01] as a day of triumph?

[8:03] Because of this unasked and still

[8:05] perhaps unanswerable question.

[8:08] What if Milosevic welches on this deal

[8:11] as he has on others in the past? At the

[8:13] White House tonight, the

[8:14] philosopher-in-chief is Yogi Berra who

[8:17] said so memorably, "It ain't over till

[8:20] it's over." I'm Dave Marash for

[8:22] Nightline in Washington.

[8:24] >> In a moment, a conversation we recorded

[8:27] earlier this evening with the

[8:28] president's national security advisor,

[8:31] Sandy Berger.

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[11:00] >> And joining me now is National Security

[11:02] Advisor Sandy Berger. Were you a little

[11:03] surprised when Milosevic immediately

[11:06] accepted, the Serb Parliament

[11:08] immediately accepted? I mean, it all

[11:09] happened in a matter of hours, very

[11:11] quickly.

[11:12] >> Well,

[11:13] >> [clears throat]

[11:13] >> we've been, of course, engaged in this

[11:14] enterprise for

[11:16] over 70 days. Um

[11:19] so I uh uh

[11:20] uh this is just uh day 71.

[11:24] Um

[11:25] I I think, Ted, that this is a a

[11:27] positive development. Uh that the fact

[11:30] that he has accepted uh

[11:32] the the plan put forward by Ahtisaari

[11:34] and uh Chernomyrdin that embodies uh our

[11:36] conditions.

[11:38] Um as you note uh

[11:40] uh this is a man uh uh who has not

[11:43] always complied uh with what he's agreed

[11:46] uh that is why the bombing continues uh

[11:49] and will continue uh until we see uh

[11:52] demonstral evidence uh of a full-scale

[11:55] withdrawal.

[11:55] >> You have been very careful all along to

[11:57] say we're not negotiating with

[11:59] Milosevic. Right? No negotiation.

[12:02] Uh but there is still a lot to be

[12:04] determined. There are a lot of

[12:06] discussions that have to be held. Uh

[12:08] what diplomats like to call modalities.

[12:11] That can slip very easily into something

[12:14] that resembles a negotiation.

[12:16] >> don't believe so cuz the basic

[12:17] conditions that we have always said are

[12:20] number one

[12:21] there has to be a cessation of

[12:23] hostilities, a verifiable cessation of

[12:25] hostilities.

[12:27] Uh number two uh there has to be uh ob-

[12:30] obviously an opportunity for the

[12:32] refugees to return. Number three, there

[12:34] has to be uh the exit of all Serb uh

[12:37] forces. And number four there has to be

[12:41] uh the acceptance of a international

[12:43] security presence we said with NATO at

[12:45] its core that is unified command and

[12:47] control led by NATO.

[12:48] >> What does What does What does that mean

[12:50] though? I mean for example, when you say

[12:51] NATO at its core, if the Russians let's

[12:53] say want to take one section of Kosovo

[12:56] and they say let NATO take another

[12:58] section, that would be a de facto

[12:59] partition.

[13:00] >> No, but that would not happen. We would

[13:01] not accept that. That is not what it was

[13:03] laid before Mr. Milosevic. That is not

[13:06] what he purports to have accepted. We

[13:09] have Mr. Ahtisaari, President Ahtisaari

[13:10] made it very clear to Mr. Milosevic

[13:13] that what we're talking about here is a

[13:16] force that has a unified command and

[13:18] control with NATO and NATO-led force.

[13:21] Uh we can't compromise on that.

[13:24] Uh Ted, let me let me tell you why.

[13:26] We would not participate in a force that

[13:28] did not have was not NATO-led.

[13:30] Um number one. Number two, and if we

[13:33] don't participate, I don't believe

[13:35] uh the Kosovars will return.

[13:37] Uh and number three, we need a strong

[13:40] force there uh not only to restore

[13:43] security uh but to

[13:46] uh help uh

[13:47] achieve the uh demilitarization, for

[13:49] example, of the Kosovars, which is

[13:51] something the Serbs want.

[13:52] >> Let me put forward to you, I mean, this

[13:54] is a very dangerous game to try to get

[13:55] into Milosevic's mind. Let's assume that

[13:57] he is as crafty as he has always been in

[13:59] the past.

[14:01] And conversations begin sometime in the

[14:04] next few days between NATO generals and

[14:07] Serb generals, other conversations get

[14:09] underway.

[14:10] Two weeks pass, three weeks pass, the

[14:12] window that we've all been hearing about

[14:15] for these last few weeks for assembling

[14:17] a ground force that might have to go

[14:20] into Kosovo if we are to avoid refugees

[14:24] being stuck in the camps in winter, that

[14:26] window passes, Milosevic changes his

[14:29] mind. Well, uh I don't think we can

[14:31] permit that to happen. Let's be clear

[14:33] about a few things. Number one, as we're

[14:35] sitting here this evening NATO bombing

[14:37] continues, and it will continue uh until

[14:40] there's not only the acceptance of these

[14:41] conditions, but as I said uh the

[14:44] beginning the demo- the demonstrable

[14:46] beginning of uh

[14:48] uh verifiable beginning of a full-scale

[14:50] withdrawal.

[14:51] Uh

[14:53] uh so number one um and uh

[14:56] uh uh if uh

[14:59] uh he seeks to drag this on,

[15:01] uh uh then clearly uh

[15:04] uh this has not been uh a step taken in

[15:07] good faith. He's indicated a rapid

[15:09] timetable. He's agreed to 7 days.

[15:12] >> Uh 7 days for

[15:14] >> 7 days to withdraw his forces once uh

[15:17] uh

[15:17] once they begin. Um and

[15:20] >> But but when but when would it begin?

[15:21] That that hasn't been determined yet.

[15:23] >> Well, that's what these military talks

[15:25] will establish, but I don't you know I

[15:26] would not imagine that we're going to

[15:28] sit around a table and and

[15:30] and discuss this ad nauseam. The bombing

[15:33] will continue

[15:35] and we're not going to rule out any

[15:37] other option or preclude any option by a

[15:40] stall tactic here.

[15:41] >> But you understand better than anyone

[15:43] what I'm talking about. The the

[15:45] expectation was that if indeed you were

[15:48] going to have

[15:50] a significantly larger, in other words,

[15:52] a a ground force that would have to go

[15:54] into a hostile environment,

[15:57] that you would have to make those

[15:58] decisions and begin those plans in the

[16:01] next two to three weeks. Are those plans

[16:02] moving forward?

[16:04] >> Uh the president's made very clear Ted

[16:06] that

[16:07] no options including the one you're

[16:08] talking about is off the table.

[16:11] Uh

[16:12] we've also made clear that NATO has

[16:14] undertaken

[16:16] a full

[16:18] assessment of that option and others. Um

[16:23] there are a number of ways in which

[16:24] force can be applied in in in Kosovo.

[16:27] Let me finish my point.

[16:30] And there are a number of timelines.

[16:33] But we're obviously not going to get

[16:35] engaged in a protracted discussion with

[16:37] Milosevic which would essentially

[16:40] preclude options

[16:42] that that would be necessary to resolve

[16:44] this.

[16:45] >> We've got to take a short break, but

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[19:08] >> So, what brought you to us, Roger?

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[19:41] >> And we're back once again with Sandy

[19:43] Berger, the National Security Advisor.

[19:44] Explain that 7-day window. When did

[19:46] those 7 days start ticking?

[19:48] >> What he has what is what is included in

[19:50] the Autonomy Plan to which he has

[19:53] apparently agreed today and the Serb

[19:56] Parliament apparently is accepted is

[19:58] that withdrawal with a rapid timetable

[20:01] would be established

[20:03] for the withdrawal

[20:04] that is within 7 days.

[20:07] >> All 40,000 troops and police and extra

[20:12] special units.

[20:13] >> It's not that you know, Kosovo is not

[20:14] that big.

[20:15] >> I know, I understand. But

[20:16] >> You can get you can get out pretty

[20:17] quickly.

[20:17] >> But he's agreed pretty quickly. He's

[20:19] agreed that once they once they start

[20:21] moving out, they will be out in 7 days.

[20:23] >> That is part of the

[20:25] the Autonomy Plan document

[20:27] document to which he

[20:29] proports to agree.

[20:30] >> I'm assuming you keep referring it to

[20:32] the

[20:33] Autonomy Plan document. I assume it's a

[20:35] document that you guys have something to

[20:36] do.

[20:37] >> Well, we certainly it certainly embodies

[20:38] our our conditions and reflects what

[20:43] NATO and the United States have been

[20:44] saying all along.

[20:45] >> Let me just see if I can get you to be a

[20:47] little more precise on

[20:49] just when you think that 7-day clock

[20:52] would start ticking. Now,

[20:53] >> Well, as I say, the next step would be

[20:55] for there to be

[20:57] military-to-military

[20:58] talks

[20:59] or meeting. I would hope that would take

[21:02] place soon

[21:04] between someone from General Clark's

[21:08] NATO operation and the VJ military.

[21:11] There is a the agreement calls for a

[21:15] military technical agreement,

[21:16] essentially a phasing agreement. So that

[21:20] we understand where they're withdrawing

[21:21] from

[21:22] and where we're entering from.

[21:24] >> Do you know how many troops

[21:25] >> and sequencing, but it has to be done.

[21:28] Their air defense system

[21:30] needs to be out in 48 hours and their

[21:33] troops

[21:34] in 7 days and we're going to watch that

[21:35] very carefully.

[21:36] >> Do you know how many troops they've got

[21:37] there?

[21:38] >> Uh

[21:39] >> Do you know how many troops you've

[21:40] killed? I don't mean you, I mean NATO.

[21:42] How many How many How many Yugoslav

[21:44] troops have been killed over the last 70

[21:46] days?

[21:46] >> I think there's been enormous damage

[21:48] done to his military, particularly in

[21:51] Kosovo, both uh

[21:53] equipment and personnel

[21:55] forces in the field. I think we have uh

[21:59] a fairly good idea of uh of what is

[22:03] there and I think again we have adequate

[22:06] means to verify his compliance and we

[22:08] will have within time 50,000 very

[22:13] heavily armed, very

[22:15] robust soldiers on the ground.

[22:18] >> Let me Let me explain where I was going.

[22:19] If in other words, somewhere today I I

[22:22] heard speculation that as many as 5,000

[22:25] Yugoslav troops have been killed and

[22:26] maybe 10,000 injured. If there had been

[22:30] 40,000 troops in there

[22:32] and he is claiming that 15,000 of his

[22:35] troops were either dead or injured, then

[22:36] you would only have 25,000 leaving. On

[22:38] the other hand, that may be a lie. That

[22:40] may be an exaggeration. How will you

[22:42] know?

[22:42] >> He has to have He has to take out all of

[22:44] his forces. We will be able to observe

[22:46] that from the air and we will be on the

[22:48] ground. If there Obviously, if there if

[22:50] there are units or soldiers that remain,

[22:54] they will be escorted out. Uh there

[22:58] >> By By whom?

[22:59] >> By the By the KFOR force.

[23:00] >> And And if they resisted in any way?

[23:02] >> Well, they're they're I I don't think

[23:05] we'll they'll they'll resist a KFOR.

[23:06] That would be a big mistake.

[23:08] >> Because?

[23:09] >> Because the reason why we believe uh

[23:12] there has to be a robust NATO-led force

[23:15] uh is to be able to enforce the

[23:16] agreement if that becomes necessary.

[23:18] >> But I mean, in your mind, do you rule

[23:20] out the possibility that there may be

[23:21] fighting on the ground?

[23:23] >> I don't think one can rule out

[23:26] uh

[23:26] uh

[23:27] any possibility. That's why uh in a

[23:30] state uh Kosovo the size of or an area

[23:33] size of Connecticut will have 50,000 to

[23:36] 52,000 troops.

[23:39] Uh we're going uh in there again,

[23:41] assuming he complies, assuming

[23:43] uh this is serious and real

[23:46] um with overwhelming power. And uh uh I

[23:50] have no doubt that uh uh that we can uh

[23:54] uh

[23:55] enforce this uh agreement.

[23:57] >> Do you accept the notion that time is

[24:00] running out if you if you plan to get

[24:02] the refugees back in by winter?

[24:04] >> I think that there are, as I said

[24:06] before, many ways to use force in in uh

[24:10] in this situation. Uh I think that uh

[24:13] uh there are a number of different

[24:14] timelines. I don't I do not believe uh

[24:18] uh that I believe we have uh ample

[24:20] options if that were to come necessary

[24:22] and the president would make that

[24:23] decision.

[24:24] But let's see first whether um this air

[24:28] campaign as as NATO has conducted it uh

[24:32] in in fact will produce the result that

[24:34] we we hope it will.

[24:36] Uh as I said, I think today's

[24:37] developments are positive, but we're

[24:39] dealing here, as you properly point out

[24:41] in the beginning with Slobodan Milosevic

[24:44] um who uh

[24:46] uh

[24:47] uh can only be judged by what he does.

[24:50] >> Are you at all uncomfortable about

[24:52] dealing with, I'm not saying negotiating

[24:54] with, but dealing with an indicted war

[24:56] criminal?

[24:58] >> Uh we have made very clear from the

[24:59] beginning our military the objectives of

[25:01] this military campaign

[25:03] to enable the Kosovar refugees who have

[25:06] been expelled

[25:07] uh from their homeland back to Kosovo.

[25:11] Uh to get the Serb forces out and get an

[25:13] international security presence in.

[25:16] If we can achieve that objective

[25:18] uh

[25:19] we will have achieved the objectives of

[25:21] the military campaign. Now uh Milosevic

[25:24] uh indicted war criminal

[25:26] uh we take that very seriously.

[25:28] Um we have obligations to the war crimes

[25:31] tribunal.

[25:32] Um and as we now if if in fact again

[25:35] there is uh compliance

[25:37] um and we are able to bring the refugees

[25:39] back

[25:40] and we embark upon not just the United

[25:42] States but Europe and and others

[25:44] an effort to rebuild the Balkans and to

[25:48] deal with this one area of Europe uh

[25:51] that has not really been integrated in

[25:53] the post-Cold War

[25:54] uh Europe. Uh I cannot imagine uh that

[25:58] assistance going to a [music]

[26:00] a Serbia perhaps other than for

[26:01] humanitarian purposes that is led by an

[26:03] indicted war criminal.

[26:04] >> So you're saying if and you're saying A

[26:06] there is going to be

[26:09] a plan of some kind to rebuild Serbia to

[26:11] rebuild Kosovo but you can't imagine

[26:14] that happening as long as Milosevic is

[26:16] still in power.

[26:16] >> I think it's a broader uh concept than

[26:18] just Serbia and Kosovo. Southeastern the

[26:21] Balkans as a whole

[26:23] are the one part of Europe

[26:25] uh

[26:26] that really has not been uh succeeded in

[26:29] the post-Cold War era of being

[26:31] integrated into Europe. We have to look

[26:33] at this in a broader uh sweep but I

[26:36] can't imagine uh as I said before uh

[26:40] uh

[26:41] a any kind of substantial effort other

[26:43] than humanitarian effort with respect to

[26:46] Serbia uh if it is led by Milosevic.

[26:49] >> Mr. Berger, thanks very much. I know

[26:50] it's been a long day for you. Appreciate

[26:52] you coming in.

[26:53] >> Thank you for having me.

[26:54] >> I'll be back in a moment.

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[28:02] >> Getting stuff.

[28:03] >> What about the bills?

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[29:35] >> Tomorrow, a very special Good Morning

[29:37] America live at the White House. Kids

[29:40] and Guns, is there a solution? President

[29:43] and Mrs. Clinton taking questions from

[29:45] youngsters from around the country.

[29:48] That's our report for tonight. I'm Ted

[29:49] Koppel in Washington. For all of us here

[29:51] at ABC News, good [music] night.

[29:55] >> Nightline is always on with abcnews.com,

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