CNN - Situation Room and Lou Dobbs Tonight - 2006-11-27

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Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] anded by the war. And there's new word

[0:02] this hour about how far Mr. Bush may be

[0:05] willing to go. Back home, a bipartisan

[0:08] panel drafting its own blueprint for

[0:10] trying to ease the Iraq crisis. We'll

[0:12] have details. Does the killing and chaos

[0:14] in Baghdad and beyond now qualify as a

[0:17] formal civil war? It's midnight in Iraq.

[0:20] We're tracking the unrelenting violence

[0:22] and the controversial new efforts to

[0:24] make Iran a partner in seeking peace.

[0:28] Plus, don't read his lips, watch his

[0:30] actions. It's 4 p.m. here in Washington

[0:32] where Senator Barack Obama has been

[0:35] sending signals about his White House

[0:37] ambitions. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in

[0:39] the situation.

[0:56] Right now, President Bush is at the

[0:58] forefront of a high stakes hunt for a

[1:00] solution to the Iraq crisis. He's in

[1:02] Estonia on route to a NATO summit and

[1:04] later talks with Iraq's prime minister.

[1:07] There's new word from the White House

[1:08] that Mr. Bush may be willing to take

[1:10] some somewhat drastic action and open a

[1:13] direct line of communication with Iran.

[1:15] And our White House correspondent

[1:17] Suzanne Malvau is traveling with the

[1:19] president. She's joining us now live

[1:21] from Talin in Estonia. Suzanne.

[1:25] Wolf. We just got a briefing from Steven

[1:27] Hadley, the national security adviser.

[1:29] He was aboard Air Force One to give a

[1:30] readout about the potential conversation

[1:32] between President Bush and Iraq's Prime

[1:34] Minister Nuria al-Maliki. Now, he did

[1:37] not make a commitment of the United

[1:38] States actually reaching out and talking

[1:40] to Iran, but he said it certainly was

[1:42] something that was going to come up in

[1:43] the discussion between President Bush

[1:45] and Maliki that that was certainly a

[1:47] priority and that it was a priority of

[1:49] Maliki in particular that uh their

[1:51] understanding was that the Iraqi leader

[1:53] would want to have those kind of

[1:55] face-to-face talks, the dialogue with

[1:57] Syria as well as Iran on its own, that

[2:00] they want to be the one to take the lead

[2:02] on that, but also there would be

[2:03] discussions about whether the United

[2:05] States would be involved. in some sort

[2:07] of discussion with Iran about Iraq's

[2:09] future. So that is of course

[2:11] significant. Also from Hadley's

[2:13] discussion, he described this level of

[2:15] violence as really a new phase. And he

[2:18] said the discussions were not going to

[2:19] be about US troop levels when the two

[2:21] leaders meet, but rather how to uh build

[2:24] up Iraqi forces and how to uh actually

[2:26] train them in a much faster way to get

[2:29] that actually moving forward. Uh two

[2:31] other things came from this gaggle as

[2:33] well. Of course, he made calls to

[2:35] Egypt's host Mubarak as well as France's

[2:38] Jacques Shurach asking uh for their

[2:40] assistance when it comes to these talks

[2:42] as well as the NATO summit. Wolf,

[2:44] >> it sounds like they're get getting in

[2:46] place, trying to get in place perhaps

[2:48] some sort of international conference.

[2:50] The vice president over the weekend goes

[2:52] to meet with the Saudi king. Now the

[2:54] president will be in Jordan to meet with

[2:56] the Jordanian king as well as the Iraqi

[2:58] prime minister. They're having

[2:59] consultations with the Egyptian leader.

[3:02] Presumably others are talking to the

[3:04] Syrians. We know that Jalal Talibani,

[3:07] the president of Iraq, is today meeting

[3:09] with the the president of Iran. Is that

[3:12] what's

[3:14] what might be in the works right now? Is

[3:16] Steven Hadley, the president's national

[3:18] security adviser, suggesting the US be

[3:20] may be open to this kind of

[3:22] international conference?

[3:25] >> Well, absolutely, Wolf. and what you're

[3:27] hearing from various sources and

[3:28] different leaders. You heard it very

[3:30] directly over the weekend from Jordan's

[3:32] King Abdullah. They want an

[3:33] international conference. It's something

[3:35] the Iraq study group has also been

[3:37] recommending as well. But also the Arab

[3:39] allies, Iraq's neighbors here. They want

[3:42] some sort of international regional

[3:44] conference, a way to look at the big

[3:46] picture here uh to to get everyone

[3:49] involved, those players as well as the

[3:51] United States. So that is why you're

[3:52] seeing this diplomatic offensive taking

[3:54] place with Cheney reaching out to Saudi

[3:56] Arabia uh being in Jordan, reaching out

[3:58] to Jordan as well as some of those other

[4:00] moderate allies. If the United States

[4:02] can't make some sort of impact with

[4:04] Iraq, then they want Iraq's neighbors to

[4:06] try to help out.

[4:07] >> And by almost all accounts, it will be

[4:09] linked to a renewed US effort to try to

[4:11] jumpstart Israeli Palestinian peace

[4:14] peace process as well. Suzan Malvo,

[4:16] we're going to check back with you.

[4:17] She's traveling with the president. his

[4:19] first stop today in Estonia, later going

[4:21] to Latafia and then on to Jordan.

[4:24] Meanwhile, the United Nations Secretary

[4:26] General Kofi Annan says he believes Iraq

[4:28] now is almost almost his word in a civil

[4:32] war. Some others are arguing though that

[4:34] the violence has passed that tipping

[4:36] point, certainly a while back.

[4:40] Joining us now, our correspondent in

[4:41] Baghdad, Michael Wear, Michael, as you

[4:43] know, there's a huge debate here in the

[4:45] United States, whether or not this is a

[4:48] civil war. The White House, the Bush

[4:50] administration denies US troops are

[4:52] involved in a civil war in Iraq. The

[4:54] Iraqi government, Prime Minister Nuri

[4:56] al- Maliki, denies this is a civil war,

[4:59] but a lot of other experts not only say

[5:01] it's a civil war, it may be one of the

[5:03] most brutal and violent civil wars of

[5:06] recent memory. You're there on the

[5:08] ground. Is this a civil war?

[5:11] >> Well, what I can tell you, Wolf, for

[5:12] example, is right now as I'm speaking to

[5:15] you, there's a gun battle underway. The

[5:17] the sound of machine gunfire in a

[5:20] neighboring suburb. It's a Sunni area

[5:22] where it's known that Shia death squads

[5:25] often in police uniforms roam and the

[5:27] locals band together to to repel them.

[5:30] That could very well be going on as

[5:32] we're speaking to each other. Certainly

[5:34] in the rest of Iraq tonight, that's what

[5:36] communities are doing, banding together,

[5:38] using telephones and SMS and even blog

[5:42] sites to coordinate as death squads move

[5:45] in and they prepare their defenses. The

[5:47] debate about whether there's a civil war

[5:50] is fueled either by the luxury of

[5:53] distance, those who aren't here living

[5:56] on the ground, or is fueled by the spin

[5:59] of those with a political agenda to deny

[6:02] its existence. The basic definition is a

[6:05] war by organized groups within a

[6:08] country. Some say it must be a battle

[6:10] over the political center with at least

[6:12] a thousand dead involving neighborhood

[6:14] on neighborhood, militia style combat,

[6:17] elements of ethnic cleansing, you know,

[6:19] family on family, coordination and

[6:22] organization. Well, Wolf, you can tick

[6:25] every box. We now have institutionalized

[6:28] death squads in police uniforms. You're

[6:31] having Sunni patients pulled out of Shia

[6:33] controlled hospitals. You have

[6:35] neighborhoods with fighting positions.

[6:37] You have districts engaged in mortar

[6:39] wars. One neighborhood lobbing bombs on

[6:42] another neighborhood and then

[6:43] retaliating. People carry jewel identity

[6:46] cards. One Sunni, one Shia. Children

[6:49] dare not go to school for fear of

[6:51] crossing ethnic lines. Wol, if this is

[6:54] not a civil war, then I don't want to

[6:57] see one when it comes. I is it likely

[7:01] based on what you see on the ground

[7:02] there, Michael, you've been there for

[7:04] more than 3 years, that the uh the

[7:06] violence could even get worse?

[7:09] >> Oh, I I don't think that that would be a

[7:12] difficult thing to imagine at all. Put

[7:14] it this way. When I would speak to some

[7:17] of the most senior members of the US

[7:20] military intelligence here in Iraq, when

[7:23] they were asked to define civil war,

[7:26] some time ago, they would say that,

[7:28] well, we're not at civil war yet. This

[7:30] is largely an al-Qaeda sectarian

[7:33] conflict. It requires al-Qaeda to attack

[7:36] to provoke some kind of response from

[7:38] the Shia. They said it will not be civil

[7:41] war until it develops its own momentum

[7:43] that the Shia attack unprovoked. Well,

[7:47] we passed that way back earlier this

[7:49] year. And US military intelligence

[7:52] themselves said at first we saw the Shia

[7:54] attacks were targeted against specific

[7:56] individuals. Now we see mass killings by

[8:00] the Shia just like we've been seeing

[8:02] mass killings by the Sunnis. US military

[8:05] intelligence then said, "Well, it won't

[8:07] be civil war till we see the body

[8:09] politic, the general population being

[8:11] pulled apart." Well, Wolf, we've got

[8:14] that now. So, really, it's easy to see

[8:18] even by conservative military

[8:20] intelligence dynamics that this thing

[8:24] has been rolling along and getting

[8:25] worse. And so far, there is nothing to

[8:28] suggest that that won't continue to

[8:30] deteriorate.

[8:31] >> Michael Wear reporting for us from

[8:33] Baghdad. Michael, thanks very much.

[8:36] >> Thank you, Wolf.

[8:37] >> And as Michael just noted, Baghdad

[8:39] residents right now turning to the web

[8:41] in an effort to try to keep one another

[8:43] informed and protected as sectarian

[8:46] violence in the city rages. Our internet

[8:49] reporter Abby Tatton is monitoring the

[8:50] situation online. Abby, what are you

[8:52] seeing?

[8:52] >> Wol, the message at the front of this

[8:54] website is defend yourselves. The

[8:57] militias of evil have started the

[8:59] attack. It's the website of the anti-war

[9:01] group, the Iraqi League. gets popular

[9:03] with Iraqi Sunnis. It has contributors

[9:06] in Iraq as well as administrators in

[9:09] Canada and in the UK. And since

[9:11] Thursday's attack, it has a new focus on

[9:13] this website once they want to urge

[9:16] Iraqis to prepare for bloody reprisals

[9:19] and also they want pe to compile

[9:21] information what Iraqis are seeing on

[9:23] the ground neighborhood by neighborhood

[9:25] of sectarian violence. on this page.

[9:28] These people can submit what they are

[9:30] seeing and the reports are coming in

[9:32] thick and fast. In one Baghdad

[9:34] neighborhood, a warning, don't travel on

[9:36] a certain bus line because people are

[9:38] hearing that PE passengers are being

[9:40] arrested based on their sect. Elsewhere,

[9:42] you see people discussing or posting

[9:44] about how best to deploy snipers in

[9:47] their neighborhood. Elsewhere, a simple

[9:48] but urgent plea. We're being attacked.

[9:51] Somebody help us. Now, it's very

[9:53] difficult to distinguish fact from rumor

[9:56] on this website. I spoke to an

[9:58] administrator who's based in the United

[9:59] Kingdom, Ali Akmed, who said that what

[10:02] they're trying to do is use their Iraqi

[10:03] reporters to verify the accounts before

[10:06] posting them. He also says they're not

[10:08] urging violence through this this site,

[10:11] just telling people that they need to

[10:12] defend themselves, whatever from these

[10:14] postings on the accuracy, the details.

[10:17] What comes through is how urgent and

[10:20] scared people are that are posting on

[10:22] this site. Wolf

[10:23] >> Abby, thank you. Iraq, meanwhile,

[10:26] reaching out for help today from its

[10:27] former enemy. That would be Iran. It's

[10:30] more evidence that terror's often

[10:32] belligerent government may hold an

[10:34] actual key to trying to solve the Iraq

[10:36] problem. But at what cost? That's a

[10:38] crucial question. Our Brian Todd is

[10:40] following the Iran connection and the

[10:42] controversy surrounding it. Brian Wolf,

[10:44] it's becoming more apparent to observers

[10:46] and to some powerful leaders involved in

[10:48] Iraq that Iran has to be involved if

[10:51] there's any chance at all at stability.

[10:53] It's an opportunity that Iran's

[10:54] president is very eager to exploit.

[10:58] >> In Thran, two former enemies share three

[11:01] kisses and a handshake. The president of

[11:03] Iraq, which fought a devastating 8-year

[11:06] war with Iran, now says his crippled,

[11:08] chaotic nation needs Iran's help to

[11:11] fight terrorism and restore security.

[11:13] The Iranian president vows to cooperate.

[11:18] We believe a secure, advanced, and

[11:20] powerful Iraq will be in line with the

[11:22] interests of the Iraqi nation, Iran, and

[11:25] all the region.

[11:26] >> Iranian and Syrian officials would not

[11:28] confirm reports that a three-way summit

[11:30] was planned with Syrian President Bashar

[11:33] Assad invited as well. But Iranian

[11:36] officials do tell CNN they expect Assad

[11:38] to travel to Iran soon, and they say the

[11:41] Turkish prime minister will arrive

[11:42] within days. Analysts say with Iraq

[11:45] spiraling out of control and the Bush

[11:47] administration indicating a change in

[11:49] strategy is imminent, Makmoud Madinad is

[11:52] positioning his nation as an

[11:54] indispensable player.

[11:55] >> Iran is trying to say to the Bush

[11:57] administration, "Unless you talk to us,

[12:00] the situation will continue to escalate

[12:02] and deteriorate." Akmadenad's hand may

[12:05] in fact never have been stronger with an

[12:07] ambitious nuclear program, the world's

[12:09] third largest oil reserves, a massive

[12:12] army and ballistic missile arsenal. He's

[12:14] also gained huge popularity on the

[12:16] so-called Arab street by supporting

[12:19] Hezbollah's recent fight against Israel.

[12:21] But critics say his public statements

[12:23] about wanting a secure Iraq ring hollow.

[12:27] >> Iran's uh Revolutionary Guard is all

[12:30] over southern Iraq. They have tremendous

[12:32] control in the south. They pumped in a

[12:35] lot of money into into Iraq as well as

[12:38] weapons. Uh so some militias uh most

[12:42] militias actually are are armed by the

[12:45] Iranians.

[12:47] >> Iranian officials deny they're supplying

[12:49] weapons to groups inside Iraq. They say

[12:51] Jalal Talibani's visit is aimed simply

[12:53] at promoting better security and

[12:55] economic cooperation. Either way, Thrron

[12:58] is now very clearly a necessary destin

[13:00] destination rather for key players in

[13:02] the Middle East. Wolf

[13:03] >> Brian, who would have thought? Thanks

[13:05] very much for that. Brian Todd

[13:06] reporting. Jack Caerty back from a

[13:08] little time off just as I am. Good to

[13:10] have you back, Jack. I hope you relaxed

[13:12] a little bit.

[13:12] >> And you, Wolf, thank you. President Bush

[13:14] and Iraqi Prime Minister Noriel Maliki

[13:17] are scheduled for two days of meetings

[13:19] later this week in Jordan. Uh they're

[13:22] calling it a summit meeting. I'm not

[13:23] sure that I go along with that. Neither

[13:25] of these men is enjoying much support at

[13:27] home. The real power in Iraq these days,

[13:30] the Shiite militia leader Makktat

[13:31] al-Sader is threatening to pull his

[13:34] representatives out of parliament if al-

[13:35] Maliki goes ahead with the Bush

[13:37] meetings. Congress, both parties here,

[13:40] stepping up pressure on Bush to find a

[13:42] solution. Iraq is getting worse by the

[13:44] day. A civil war is raging there now.

[13:47] Last week was the deadliest in Baghdad

[13:49] since the war began in March of 2003.

[13:52] America's involvement has now surpassed

[13:55] the amount of time we were in World War

[13:57] II. And a growing number of leaders in

[13:59] this country are calling Iraq the worst

[14:02] US foreign policy decision since

[14:04] Vietnam. Senator Chuck Hegel, a

[14:06] Republican from Nebraska, said this

[14:08] quote, "We have misunderstood, misread,

[14:11] misplanned, and mismanaged our honorable

[14:14] intentions with an arrogant self-d

[14:16] delusion reminiscent of Vietnam.

[14:18] Honorable intentions are not policies

[14:21] and plans." unquote. So, here's the

[14:23] question. What do you think will come

[14:24] out of these meetings this week in

[14:26] Jordan between Nuriel al- Maliki and

[14:29] President Bush? Email your thoughts to

[14:31] Cafferty File at CNN.com or go to

[14:33] CNN.com/caferty

[14:35] file. Wolf.

[14:36] >> And Senator Hegel remembers he served in

[14:38] the US military during Vietnam. So, he

[14:40] remembers full well when he makes that

[14:42] comparison. Jack, uh I assume he's

[14:45] referring to his own personal

[14:46] recollections of what uh what was going

[14:48] on at that time as well. Well, and and

[14:50] and perhaps he's drawing a parallel to

[14:53] the kind of u of of head in the sand

[14:56] mismanagement and refusal to face facts

[14:58] and reality that have highlighted the

[15:02] the approach to this war in Iraq. I

[15:03] mean, this thing has been spiraling out

[15:05] of control for weeks and months and and

[15:08] there is no sign of any sort of victory.

[15:11] Democracy ain't anywhere in that

[15:13] neighborhood and and probably won't be

[15:15] for another 800 years. I mean, we've got

[15:17] our head someplace where the sun doesn't

[15:19] shine on this deal, and people like

[15:21] Hegel are saying it's time to wake up

[15:23] and and face the reality of what's going

[15:25] on there.

[15:26] >> Jack Caerty, thanks.

[15:28] >> Coming up, is there a way out of the

[15:30] vortex of violence in Iraq? I'll ask the

[15:32] country's deputy representative to the

[15:33] United Nations about the new diplomatic

[15:35] scramble and whether Iran may have an

[15:38] important role to play. Will President

[15:40] Bush return from his overseas mission

[15:42] with something to show his critics? Or

[15:44] will he let the Iraq study group, as

[15:46] it's called, do some of the hard work

[15:47] for him? Donna Brazil and Babe Buchanan

[15:49] standing by for our strategy session.

[15:52] And do Senator Barack Obama's actions

[15:54] speak louder than his words? We're

[15:56] watching to see if the Illinois Democrat

[15:58] is making presidential moves right now.

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[18:48] Anderson Cooper live from Turkey tonight

[18:51] 10 Eastern.

[18:55] Let's check in with Carol Costello for a

[18:57] closer look at some other important

[18:59] stories making news. Hi Carol.

[19:01] >> Hi Wolf. Hello to all of you. Despite

[19:03] Israel's long-standing policy not to

[19:05] negotiate with those it considers

[19:06] terrorists, it appears they are ready to

[19:09] negotiate. Israel now offering to

[19:11] release Palestinian prisoners if

[19:13] Palestinian militants free an Israeli

[19:15] soldier kidnapped five months ago. Prime

[19:17] Minister Ahoot Almer made the offer

[19:19] today. It comes as Israel tries to

[19:21] restart peace talks with the

[19:22] Palestinians. But that peace may be hard

[19:24] to secure. Today, Palestinian militants

[19:27] fired two rockets into Israel in

[19:29] violation of a ceasefire agreement that

[19:31] took effect just over the weekend.

[19:32] That's according to Israel's defense

[19:34] forces, which also says militants fired

[19:36] nine other rockets this weekend, but

[19:38] those did not land in Israel. Islam

[19:40] Jihad and Hamas military wing claimed

[19:42] responsibility for several of those

[19:44] rocket attacks. In London, what you

[19:47] don't know may hurt you. New

[19:48] developments regarding that former

[19:50] Russian spy who died last week of

[19:52] radioactive poisoning. Scientists say

[19:54] they found more traces of radiation in

[19:56] three places around London. Officials

[19:58] are urging calm as three people report

[20:01] symptoms. They're now being tested for

[20:03] the same deadly poisoning that killed

[20:05] Alexander Lipenko. But officials say

[20:08] that is just a precaution. And words of

[20:10] anger to the man who preaches peace.

[20:12] Some people in Turkey want the pope to

[20:14] just stay home. Today and yesterday, as

[20:16] you see, many thousands protested Pope

[20:18] Benedict's planned visit to Turkey set

[20:20] for tomorrow. Many are still angry over

[20:22] the Pope's recent comments about Islam

[20:24] and violence. It will be the Pope's

[20:26] first visit to a predominantly Muslim

[20:28] country. He says he'll go as a friend

[20:30] and is asking his followers to pray for

[20:32] him. That's a look at the headlines

[20:34] right now. Wolf

[20:35] >> uh Anderson Cooper is there in Turkey.

[20:37] Uh Carol, he's going to have a special

[20:39] tonight. In fact, all of this week on

[20:41] this potential clash of these two great

[20:43] religions, Islam and Christianity. Uh

[20:46] 7:00 in our situation room, we're going

[20:47] to be speaking with Anderson from Turkey

[20:50] as well. Our viewers going to want to

[20:51] see that. Also, stay with CNN tonight,

[20:53] 1000 PM Eastern. Anderson Cooper 360 on

[20:57] the scene in Turkey. Senator Barack

[21:00] Obama, meanwhile, is generating big-time

[21:02] buzz in the pregame show of what's

[21:04] called the 2008 presidential race.

[21:07] Another Illinois Democrat, that would be

[21:08] Senator Richard Durban, today urging

[21:10] political supporters to sign an online

[21:13] petition encouraging Barack Obama to run

[21:16] for the White House. The incoming

[21:17] majority whip says Obama's political

[21:19] skills compare with those of Bill

[21:21] Clinton. While everyone and his brother

[21:23] seems to be talking about Obama these

[21:25] days, Obama seems to be saying a lot

[21:28] about his intentions even when he's not

[21:31] saying a thing. Let's turn to our senior

[21:33] political analyst, Bill Schneider, as we

[21:35] often do when these questions come up.

[21:37] Bill

[21:38] >> Wolf, if actions speak louder than

[21:40] words, then Senator Barack Obama is

[21:43] making a lot of noise.

[21:45] >> God bless you, Tom. Item: Senator Barack

[21:47] Obama has been seeking advice from some

[21:50] of the most experienced Democratic

[21:51] operatives in Iowa. Item: Senator Obama

[21:55] called key New Hampshire Democrats to

[21:57] congratulate them on their sweeping

[21:59] victory this month. It's a two-way

[22:01] conversation.

[22:02] >> I talked with the Obama camp. They

[22:04] insist uh that he has not set up shop in

[22:07] Iowa or New Hampshire. Uh they say

[22:09] people have been calling them offering

[22:11] their services if he chooses to run. The

[22:14] first term Illinois senator has a

[22:16] best-selling book. He appeared on Oprah.

[22:20] He spelled out his views on Iraq calling

[22:23] for

[22:23] >> a phased redeployment uh where we are

[22:26] sending a strong signal to the Iraqi

[22:29] government that they have to take some

[22:30] responsibility for uh arriving at a

[22:34] political solution.

[22:35] >> What about his own political plans?

[22:37] >> You know, I don't have a particular

[22:38] timetable.

[22:39] >> Why all the excitement over Obama? Look

[22:42] at the Democrats top choices for the

[22:43] 2008 nomination. Only one name on that

[22:46] list looks new. All the others are tied

[22:49] to the past. Obama captures what some

[22:52] Americans are looking for right now.

[22:54] >> As everywhere I go,

[22:56] I get a sense that people want to

[22:58] change.

[22:59] >> Some Democrats worry that their front

[23:01] runner, Senator Hillary Clinton, has too

[23:03] much political baggage. Obama travels

[23:06] light. what he is trying to offer really

[23:08] is a position that is not state on

[23:10] ideology.

[23:11] >> But Democrats also worry that Obama

[23:14] lacks experience. His response

[23:16] >> Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney had the

[23:18] best resumes in Washington and initiated

[23:22] uh a fiasco in Iraq, but rather uh does

[23:26] someone have the judgment necessary to

[23:29] learn from experience?

[23:33] If he gots get elected president,

[23:35] Senator Obama would be 47 years old when

[23:38] he takes office in 2009. John F. Kennedy

[23:41] was 43 when he took office in 1961,

[23:46] which happens to be the same year Mr.

[23:48] Obama was born. Wolf Bill Clinton was in

[23:51] his mid-40s as well when he became

[23:53] president of the United States. So,

[23:55] maybe a good number for someone who

[23:57] wants to be president. Bill, thank you

[23:58] very much for that. I want to thank Bill

[24:00] Schneider. He's part of the best

[24:02] political team on television. And

[24:03] remember, for the latest political news

[24:05] at any time, check out our political

[24:07] ticker, go to cnn.com/ticker.

[24:10] Still ahead, President Bush preparing to

[24:12] discuss a new phase of violence in Iraq

[24:15] with the Prime Minister Nuriel Maliki.

[24:17] But will their summit in Jordan produce

[24:19] results, the Iraq stakes? That's coming

[24:21] up in our strategy session. And is Iraq

[24:24] in the midst of a civil war still on the

[24:26] brink? The country's deputy

[24:28] representative to the United Nations

[24:29] gives us his take on the bloodshed and

[24:32] whether it will ease up anytime soon.

[24:34] Stay with us. You're in the situation.

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[27:11] >> Welcome back to the situation room. I'm

[27:13] Wolf Blitzer in Washington. There's

[27:15] renewed dispute today over whether Iraq

[27:17] actually has plunged into civil war, but

[27:20] there's widespread consensus that

[27:21] something drastic needs to be done to

[27:24] try to stabilize the country and stop

[27:26] the hemorrhaging.

[27:29] And joining us now, Iraq's deputy

[27:30] representative to the United Nations,

[27:32] Ambassador Felistraati. Mr. Ambassador,

[27:35] thanks very much for coming in.

[27:36] >> My pleasure to be with you always. Why

[27:38] is your government uh still denying that

[27:41] there is a civil war underway in Iraq

[27:44] when every day we see these images,

[27:46] horrible images of Iraqi Shia and Iraqi

[27:50] Sunnis literally at each other's throat?

[27:53] Well, this is a questioning on in the

[27:56] scholarly community for some time as

[27:58] well as in political circles whether it

[27:59] is or it isn't a civil war. Uh today uh

[28:02] the secretary general of the United

[28:04] Nations uh made a statement which uh uh

[28:07] essentially says that it isn't yet a

[28:09] civil war. I think that what the point

[28:13] is regardless of what terminology you

[28:16] use, regardless of what nomomenclature

[28:17] you want to use, the point is that uh

[28:20] people are dying every day. Uh the

[28:22] situation is unacceptable and we have to

[28:25] find a way. Uh and when I say we, I mean

[28:28] the Iraqis, of course, the multinational

[28:30] force and the international community

[28:32] generally, including our neighbors, have

[28:34] to find a way of moving forward uh to

[28:36] bring the situation under control and to

[28:38] bring the violence and death to a stop.

[28:41] Are you concerned, Mr. ambassador uh

[28:43] that if in fact if in fact your

[28:46] government, the US government labeled

[28:48] this formally as a civil war, the

[28:51] American public would say understandably

[28:53] perhaps why is why are US troops

[28:56] involved in a in a civil war?

[28:58] >> Well, I mean, I'm not going to comment

[29:00] on I can't comment on on on domestic

[29:03] American politics or domestic American

[29:05] issues. Uh there are sound technical

[29:08] reasons for uh why this is not a civil

[29:12] war, including most most clearly because

[29:15] the population of Iraq, regardless of uh

[29:20] ethnicity or sectarian attachment uh or

[29:23] sect uh overwhelmingly rejects uh this

[29:27] violence. what you have are death squads

[29:30] operating uh on uh each sides on each

[29:33] side operated by extremists targeting

[29:35] the civilians of the other side. Uh in

[29:38] that sense you don't have for instance

[29:40] the militias which is a real problem

[29:41] right now. You don't have these militias

[29:43] fighting each other again rather you

[29:45] have them operating as death squads uh

[29:48] murdering uh the other side civilians.

[29:51] So there are sound reasons for why this

[29:53] is not a civil war in I mean

[29:56] respectfully I would submit to you that

[29:58] it really isn't important what you call

[30:00] it at this point. The point is that the

[30:02] violence must be brought to an end.

[30:04] Here's another image that is shocking to

[30:06] a lot of Americans and it's happened

[30:08] just today. the president of Iraq, Jalal

[30:11] Talibani, going to Tean, meeting with

[30:13] the president of Iran, uh, Ahmmed

[30:15] Ahmedad. Uh, and there are hugs and

[30:19] kisses, warm embraces. This is a a

[30:22] president of Iran that has literally

[30:24] called for Israel's destruction and has

[30:25] basically said the United States must be

[30:27] destroyed as well. Why is Iraq warming

[30:31] up to Iran right now? Well, I think

[30:35] everyone understands

[30:37] and from at least reading the newspapers

[30:40] this morning uh the Baker Hamilton

[30:43] Commission understands as well that that

[30:45] our neighbors all our neighbors uh the

[30:49] six immediate neighbors uh that we have

[30:51] adjacent neighbors all our neighbors

[30:54] Iran included other countries included

[30:57] uh have to be a part of the solution to

[30:59] the problem.

[31:01] Are you comfortable with with this uh

[31:03] embrace that Iraqi leaders are having

[31:05] with Iranian leaders?

[31:07] >> Well, keep in mind, I mean, the embrace

[31:09] is used in the Middle East, as you well

[31:10] know. You're an old Middle East veteran.

[31:12] In in our part of the Middle East, the

[31:14] embrace is used no differently than a

[31:16] handshake is in the West. So, you know

[31:18] that culturally, um, it's a part of the

[31:21] etiquette of the Middle East, as you

[31:22] well know. So the point is that we have

[31:26] profound problems in our country,

[31:29] problems that we think that our

[31:31] neighbors including Iran can help us

[31:33] solve. Uh and I think it is universally

[31:35] understood uh now that we need to reach

[31:38] out to all our neighbors uh to solve

[31:40] those problems. So on the contrary, I

[31:43] should think that to the extent that

[31:45] this may lead to a reduction of the

[31:47] violence in Iraq and to uh the uh

[31:51] eventual ability uh sooner rather than

[31:53] later of multinational forces to go

[31:56] home. I would think that this is

[31:57] precisely the kind of outreach uh that

[32:00] would be welcomed.

[32:01] >> Ambassador Strabati, thanks very much

[32:03] for coming in.

[32:04] >> My pleasure. Thank you. And up next,

[32:06] will President Bush and the Iraqi Prime

[32:08] Minister Nuriel Maliki agree on a plan

[32:10] to end the bloodshed that is staining

[32:12] both of their legacies? Jack Aferty

[32:15] going over your email right now. And is

[32:17] Iran part of the solution to the Iraq

[32:19] crisis or will engaging terror only

[32:22] create more problems? Dave Buchanan and

[32:24] Donna Brazil standing by for our

[32:26] strategy session. We'll be right back.

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[35:21] Today in our strategy session, finding

[35:23] the right solution for Iraq. President

[35:25] Bush set to meet with Iraq's prime

[35:26] minister to discuss Iraq's violent

[35:28] present and the possibility of a

[35:30] peaceful future. Here with us are two

[35:32] CNN political analysts. Donna Brazil is

[35:35] a Democratic strategist. Babe Buchanan

[35:37] is president of American cause. Thanks

[35:39] very much guys for coming in. This

[35:42] debate over whether or not Donna this is

[35:44] a civil war is very significant because

[35:46] the American public didn't bargain for

[35:49] getting involved in somebody else

[35:50] somebody else's civil war.

[35:52] >> That is correct. Look, this is very

[35:54] troubling indeed. If if many people are

[35:56] correct that it is a civil war. The

[35:58] American people thought uh that we could

[36:00] get in and get out real quickly. Now 3

[36:01] years, 8 months, 8 days, we're all now

[36:04] counting. They didn't bargain for a

[36:05] civil war. And if this is a civil war,

[36:07] then I think the Congress bipartisan

[36:10] will call call on the administration to

[36:12] begin to withdraw the troops.

[36:14] >> What do you think, Ben?

[36:14] >> There there's no question in in politics

[36:17] the rhetoric is very very important and

[36:19] a civil war or almost a civil war is a

[36:21] huge difference. Uh a lot of people

[36:23] would say we want to we want to avoid

[36:25] that civil war. That's why we need to

[36:26] stay there is to avoid it. But we're

[36:27] already into it. That changes the

[36:29] formula dramatically. Uh I think there's

[36:31] no question the majority of people

[36:33] historians will say it's civil war.

[36:35] There's some argument that might not be,

[36:36] but the bottom line is right now, and I

[36:38] think all Americans feel the same way,

[36:39] the key is how do we get Americans out

[36:42] of there without causing greater

[36:44] bloodshed than there already is.

[36:45] >> Well, one of the ways that that it might

[36:47] happen is this Iraq study group, this

[36:49] bipartisan uh group that has been put

[36:52] together, 10 members, five Democrats,

[36:55] five Republicans, and they're chaired by

[36:57] James Baker, the former Secretary of

[36:59] State, Lee Hamilton, the former United

[37:01] States Congressman. Both of them

[37:03] extremely experienced, very

[37:04] knowledgeable on all things Middle

[37:07] Eastern, and they they come with a lot

[37:09] in their history. But let's take a look

[37:11] at the eight other members of this

[37:13] panel, the other Republicans and the

[37:15] other Democrats, and we'll show their

[37:17] pictures up there. You take a look at

[37:18] the Republicans. Larry Eagleberger,

[37:20] former Secretary of State, lot of

[37:22] experience. Ed me niece, a former

[37:24] attorney general, White House official,

[37:26] not much experience in the Middle East.

[37:28] Sandra Day Okconor, an excellent Supreme

[37:30] Court justice, not a whole lot of

[37:31] experience in the Middle East. Former US

[37:33] Senator Alan Simpson of Wyoming, a lot

[37:35] of experience in the Senate. I don't

[37:37] know how much experience in the Middle

[37:38] East. On the Democratic side, Vernon

[37:41] Jordan, an excellent lawyer here in

[37:43] Washington, very close to former

[37:44] President Bill Clinton, not a whole lot

[37:46] of Middle Eastern experience. Leon

[37:48] Petta, former congressman, OM Director,

[37:50] White House Chief of Staff under Bill

[37:52] Clinton. William Perry was the Secretary

[37:54] of Defense, knows a lot about the

[37:56] region. Senator, former Senator Chuck

[37:58] Rob of Virginia had a lot of experience

[38:00] in the Middle East, but these are

[38:01] political figures mostly. Would you rely

[38:04] on them to come up with a solution to

[38:07] how to deal with what is clearly such an

[38:09] intractable problem?

[38:10] >> Absolutely. I would I would trust that

[38:12] they would come up with a set of

[38:13] recommendations that the president can

[38:14] look at. Some of the recommendations may

[38:16] be political. It may involve us talking

[38:18] with our so-called enemies, Iran and

[38:21] Syria. It it may or may not involve us

[38:23] withdrawing our troops. I think

[38:25] Democrats will, you know, continue to

[38:27] push for withdrawing our troops, but I

[38:28] trust that their judgment, I trust that

[38:30] they will give the president good advice

[38:31] and and of course members of Congress

[38:33] will have an opportunity to bring them

[38:35] up to the hill and to talk to them.

[38:36] >> What do you think, man?

[38:37] >> There's no question there's enormous

[38:38] experience as you pointed out and and

[38:40] that these are serious people that they

[38:42] are are very taking this responsibility

[38:44] extremely seriously and are moving ahead

[38:46] to do the best they can. But the bottom

[38:47] line is the president is still the

[38:49] commander-in-chief. If we put so much

[38:51] weight and and credibility behind this

[38:54] committee, is he going to be forced to

[38:56] just be led by them? Do they become the

[38:58] commander-in-chief? Do they become our

[38:59] foreign policy um directors? In essence,

[39:02] I think that cannot happen. The

[39:04] president has to have flexibility. He's

[39:06] hearing from the those in the in the

[39:07] field. He's got to rely on the military

[39:09] and our defense department and he's got

[39:11] to work with these people overseas. The

[39:13] Iraqi people and the Iraqi government

[39:14] has to be played a major role. The only

[39:16] option we know is that we cannot just

[39:18] continue to sit down and do nothing. And

[39:20] one thing that this study group will

[39:22] provide us is a roadmap perhaps or even

[39:24] a set of recommendations. It will not

[39:26] end the suffering in Iraq, but at least

[39:28] we'll have something to talk about.

[39:29] >> But does it change the president's

[39:31] policy?

[39:31] >> He can pick and choose. He can pick

[39:33] those recommendations he likes and

[39:34] ignore the ones he doesn't like that

[39:37] that comes with the turf.

[39:38] >> Sure. But if he chooses not to do X, Y,

[39:40] and Z, then you come on TV and you got

[39:42] Wolf Blitzer and everyone else saying,

[39:43] "Why didn't you do this? Shouldn't he

[39:44] have done this? Shouldn't he have done

[39:45] enormous pressure becomes the American

[39:47] people to put on the president.

[39:48] >> Look at the cover of Newsweek magazine

[39:50] and we're going to put it up uh right

[39:52] now. Mkhtara Elsadder, this young Shiite

[39:55] radical cleric uh and Newsweek

[39:57] suggesting uh if you take a look, the

[39:59] most dangerous man in Iraq right now, he

[40:02] holds the key to the prime minister's

[40:04] political block in the Iraqi parliament.

[40:07] Uh if he doesn't want things to happen,

[40:09] things uh clearly are not going to going

[40:11] to happen. The former US military

[40:13] commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General

[40:15] Ricardo Sanchez, he said this on April

[40:18] 12th, 2004. The mission of US forces is

[40:21] to kill or capture Muktada als

[40:26] General Sanchez said, had a lot of

[40:28] American blood on his hands. Uh yet he

[40:31] is a political heavyweight right now in

[40:34] Iraq and our ally, the prime minister,

[40:36] is deeply aligned with him.

[40:38] >> Absolutely. Yeah. But he he wills a lot

[40:39] of power because he has what three

[40:42] ministries uh as well as perhaps 30

[40:45] members of the parliament. But I also

[40:47] believe that they have to bring in some

[40:48] other important sheers. Mr. Cistani who

[40:51] we haven't really heard from he needs to

[40:53] come in and be a be a balancing act

[40:55] toward this uh Darth Vader looking

[40:57] character.

[40:58] >> And and and I'll tell you what the real

[41:00] problem here is. the prime minister a

[41:02] lot of people think of pulling back from

[41:04] coming down and slamming on these

[41:05] insurgents which are allied uh to Solder

[41:08] and also Solder actually said that if

[41:10] the if that he was going to pull his

[41:11] support of the prime minister if the

[41:13] prime minister met with President Bush

[41:15] so what what kind of relationship is

[41:17] going on over here who are we supporting

[41:19] is this government in which the

[41:20] Americans support tied in with the

[41:22] insurgency itself these are problems

[41:24] that I don't know if the commission can

[41:26] work their way through I hope they can

[41:27] but it doesn't seem like good lord might

[41:29] have some trouble with this one if Think

[41:30] those are easy questions. I got a few

[41:32] more for you later in the week. Thanks

[41:33] guys for coming in. Uh coming up, purple

[41:36] stained fingers and blood stained hands

[41:39] are the high hopes for democracy in Iraq

[41:41] in ruins as the nation reels for so much

[41:44] uncontrolled violence and President Bush

[41:46] on a mission to try to calm the crisis.

[41:48] But what if anything will he actually

[41:50] accomplish? It's Jack Cafa's question

[41:52] this hour. He'll be back shortly. You're

[41:54] here in the situation.

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[42:40] Mel Gibson's Apocalyptto, rated R in

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[45:17] >> Let's check back with Carol for another

[45:19] closer look at some other important

[45:21] stories. Carol,

[45:22] >> hi Wolf. Hello to all of you. What

[45:24] happened? That's what many are asking

[45:25] after a 23-year-old New York man was

[45:27] shot and killed outside of a strip club

[45:29] hours before his wedding. Today, New

[45:32] York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the

[45:33] five police officers involved appear to

[45:36] have used excessive force. Police let

[45:38] loose some 50 rounds of gunfire on the

[45:40] groom Shawn Bell and his friends,

[45:42] killing Bell. Two men remain in the

[45:44] hospital tonight. An investigation of

[45:46] course now underway. It is being treated

[45:48] as a crime in Missouri. A fire at a

[45:50] group home for the elderly and and

[45:52] mentally ill that killed 10 people.

[45:55] That's according to Missou's governor

[45:56] who says officials want to know if

[45:58] someone intentionally set the fire. The

[46:00] fire burned down the Anderson Guest

[46:01] House in Anderson. Two dozen other

[46:03] people were hurt. Attention Walmart

[46:06] shoppers. Now you can get your

[46:07] prescription drugs from the same place

[46:09] you buy your toiletries and toys.

[46:11] Walmart's extended its super lowcost

[46:13] prescription drug program. Now shoppers

[46:15] in all 50 states can take advantage of

[46:17] the deal to pay just $4 for generic

[46:19] drugs. Walmart began the program back in

[46:21] se in September and less to say Wolf. It

[46:24] was a huge success. Let's look at the

[46:26] headlines right now.

[46:26] >> All right, Carol, thanks for that. Uh

[46:28] President Bush's overseas mission right

[46:30] now underscores a startling turnaround.

[46:33] He had hoped that ousting Saddam Hussein

[46:35] would spur a new democracy in Iraq,

[46:37] which would spread through the Middle

[46:38] East. But as he prepares to head to the

[46:40] region later this week, the president

[46:42] faces the possibility of collaborating

[46:45] with some regimes he believes are

[46:47] desperately in need of political reform.

[46:50] Here's our senior analyst, Jeff

[46:52] Greenfield. Jeff Wolf, the president

[46:54] will be traveling to Jordan later this

[46:56] week where he'll be meeting with Iraq's

[46:57] prime minister. He's traveling with some

[46:59] heavy baggage. the knowledge that the

[47:01] optimistic vision that lay behind the

[47:03] decision to invade Iraq now appears to

[47:05] be in ruins. News reports today say that

[47:08] the Iraq Study Group, that bipartisan

[47:10] commission chaired by former Secretary

[47:12] of State James Baker and ex- Congressman

[47:14] Lee Hamilton, will recommend direct

[47:16] talks with Iran and Syria, as well as a

[47:18] timetable for partial withdrawal of

[47:20] American troops. Both ideas are designed

[47:22] to find some way out of the spiral of

[47:24] sectarian violence in Iraq. here at the

[47:26] Pentagon.

[47:27] >> These ideas represent a stunning change

[47:29] from the ideas that animated the

[47:31] decision to invade Iraq 3 and a half

[47:33] years ago. That decision was not based

[47:35] simply on the belief that Saddam had

[47:37] weapons of mass destruction, but that

[47:39] his removal would change the entire

[47:40] region for the better. America will

[47:43] stand with the Allies of Freedom to

[47:45] support democratic movements in the

[47:47] Middle East and beyond with the ultimate

[47:49] goal of ending tyranny in our world.

[47:53] Specifically, the emergence of a free,

[47:55] stable Iraq would trigger regime change

[47:57] in Iran, where the Mullah's rule despite

[47:59] a strong hunger for a more democratic

[48:01] nation. That change in Iran, in turn,

[48:04] went the theory, would dry up funding

[48:06] for Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, two of

[48:08] the more militant forces against the

[48:10] idea of a permanent peace with Israel.

[48:13] And Syria as well would feel the hot

[48:15] breath of reform and democratization.

[48:18] With the funding for terror dried up

[48:20] went the theory, the more moderate

[48:22] Palestinians such as Mahmud Abbas would

[48:24] gain the upper hand and prospects for a

[48:26] comprehensive solution would increase.

[48:29] And with reform spreading even to Saudi

[48:31] Arabia, the flow of money from some of

[48:33] that nation's wealthy citizens to

[48:34] extremist groups throughout the Muslim

[48:36] world would slow, maybe even stop. For a

[48:40] time, there were signs that this hope

[48:41] might become real. Three times, millions

[48:44] of Iraqis went to the polls to vote on

[48:46] their future. Sevilla Taleb al-Suhel.

[48:49] Safia's father was assassinated by

[48:51] Saddam's intelligence service. Three

[48:54] days ago in Baghdad, Sophia was finally

[48:57] able to vote for the leaders of her

[48:59] country. And we are honored that she is

[49:02] with us tonight.

[49:04] But as of now at least, all this looks

[49:06] like a false dawn. In Iraq, Shiites and

[49:09] Sunnis appear more determined than ever

[49:11] to strike at each other. And the two

[49:13] nations that were supposed to change or

[49:15] fall after the birth of a stable, free

[49:16] Iraq, Iran and Syria, now seem to have

[49:20] gained in influence. This somber

[49:22] portrait raises one more question. For

[49:24] years, it has been an article of faith

[49:26] among some on the right that signs of

[49:27] American weakness, the pull out from

[49:29] Saigon in 1975, from Beirut in ' 83,

[49:32] from Somalia in 93, the failure to

[49:34] strike back hard against attacks on

[49:36] American interests have encouraged

[49:38] America's enemies. If this theory is

[49:40] correct, then what lesson will they draw

[49:43] from the sight of the United States now

[49:44] preparing to ask for help from two

[49:46] regimes it had once hoped to topple?

[49:50] Wolf.

[49:51] >> Jeff, thank you for that. Jeff

[49:52] Greenfield reporting. And still to come,

[49:54] questions and answers in New York about

[49:56] the police shooting of a groom to be.

[49:58] Did officers cross the line? We'll have

[50:00] a full report. That's coming up in the

[50:02] next hour right here in the situation

[50:04] room. and a leading house Republican

[50:06] still fighting for her political

[50:07] survival nearly 3 weeks after election

[50:09] day. We'll have the latest. Stay with

[50:11] us. You're in the situation.

[50:16] >> Turn left.

[50:17] >> What's a left up here?

[50:18] >> Is that the new BlackBerry from Sprint?

[50:20] >> Yeah. Fast downloads, GPS, my calendar.

[50:22] I'd be lost without it.

[50:23] >> That's cool.

[50:25] >> BlackBerry devices powered by Sprint now

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[50:30] >> So, he's really

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[50:47] tonight. The Poe who enraged Muslims now

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[52:57] Former President Jimmy Carter on a rock,

[52:59] bloodshed, and more. Larry King tonight.

[53:05] There he is. Jack Haerty rested,

[53:07] relaxed, ready for another week here in

[53:09] the situation room. Jack,

[53:10] >> I love it here. Thank you, Wolf. The

[53:12] question this hour is, what do you think

[53:13] will come out of these meetings? They're

[53:15] calling them summit meetings later this

[53:17] week in Jordan between Nuriel al- Maliki

[53:19] and President Bush. Tom writes from Old

[53:21] Orchard Beach, Maine, nothing will come

[53:24] out of these meetings. If Bush were

[53:25] inclined to change his approach to Iraq

[53:27] one iota, he would have done so months

[53:29] ago and helped his party maintain

[53:31] control of Congress. Hopefully the new

[53:33] Congress can do what is necessary to get

[53:35] us the hell out of there. Hhabib Romney,

[53:37] West Virginia. If there are participants

[53:39] that are realists in the mix, I believe

[53:41] there's a good chance to make progress

[53:43] in halting this civil war. Syria, Iran,

[53:46] and Turkey must participate as well. In

[53:49] order to quell the Sunni Shiite

[53:50] violence, the US must take a back seat

[53:53] in the negotiations. James and Colorado,

[53:56] nothing of importance will come of this

[53:57] meeting. Both leaders are now

[53:59] irrelevant. The situation belongs to the

[54:01] participants in the civil war and the

[54:03] neighbors of Iraq. Bush has swed the

[54:06] wind and is reaping the whirlwind. He

[54:08] deserves it. He's a fool. Theo Waterl

[54:11] Iowa. I really don't know what to think

[54:13] anymore. I don't trust President Bush,

[54:14] but I do hope this meeting will have a

[54:16] good outcome that encourages Middle East

[54:18] peace, even though such an objective

[54:20] seems miles out of reach at this time.

[54:23] Bob in Idaho writes absolutely nothing.

[54:25] Al Malake has no power. Bush is also

[54:27] powerless on this to do anything to

[54:29] solve the problem. It's just the blind

[54:31] misleading the blind. And finally, Hank

[54:33] in Arlington, Texas. It'll be the same

[54:35] old timewn script about securing

[54:38] freedom, spreading democracy, and all of

[54:40] the progress that's being accomplished

[54:42] in Iraq. A couple of puppets fawning all

[54:44] over each other is more contrived comedy

[54:47] than international politics. Wolf

[54:49] >> Jack, see you in a few minutes. Thank

[54:51] you for that. Still to come, the Iraq

[54:52] Study Group, as it's called, looking for

[54:54] answers. uh and it has a few weeks left

[54:56] to give its advice, but are there any

[54:59] good options right now? And a Republican

[55:01] Congresswoman Deborah Price of Ohio

[55:04] squeaked out a win in her House race,

[55:06] but we'll tell you why some fear win may

[55:09] not necessarily stick. There are

[55:10] developments. We'll be right back.

[55:12] >> Openings will be uh and that

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[56:19] people.

[56:33] >> I saw several girls raped.

[56:34] >> Raped right in front of my eyes. Then

[56:37] they burned them to death.

[56:39] >> They killed my sons,

[56:41] >> then my husband and my brother.

[56:43] >> The government just wants us to

[56:45] disappear.

[56:49] The rest of the world isn't doing

[56:51] anything.

[56:52] >> isn't doing anything.

[56:54] >> Anything.

[57:01] >> Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be landing

[57:02] shortly. For those of you connecting to

[57:04] Atlanta, you'll be at gate A9. Bueno

[57:06] Series A17. Back from a long night out

[57:09] with the entire Tokyo office, capped off

[57:10] by a karaoke rendition of I am woman

[57:12] that certainly no one will forget. and

[57:14] still pulling off that 7 figure deal the

[57:16] next morning without a hitch. You're at

[57:18] gate C21, Denver C10.

[57:21] >> We know why you fly. We're American

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[57:25] American now flies to Tokyo, Shanghai,

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[57:30] How do I spend the rest of my year? I

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[58:00] CNN video podcast available for download

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[58:04] >> Can I get some reaction?

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[58:17] >> On our political radar this Monday, an

[58:19] automatic recount has been triggered in

[58:21] Ohio where Republican Congresswoman

[58:23] Deborah Price is fighting to keep her

[58:25] seat. The Franklin County Board of

[58:27] Elections has certified Price the winner

[58:29] over Democrat Mary Joe Kilroy, but the

[58:32] margin is so slim, only about 1,055

[58:35] votes, that the recount is required. The

[58:38] balance of power in the House still

[58:40] stands at 232 seats for Democrats, 198

[58:44] for Republicans. Five races, five races

[58:46] now, 3 weeks after the election, still

[58:49] undecided. If you had any doubts that

[58:51] the 2008 presidential campaign was

[58:54] underway, consider this. The Iowa GOP

[58:57] today announced it will hold its

[58:58] presidential straw poll on Saturday,

[59:00] August 11th of next year. The straw poll

[59:03] is a long-standing tradition in Iowa and

[59:06] one of the early tests of Republican

[59:08] White House hopefuls. Three big states

[59:11] could throw a wrench into the 2008

[59:13] presidential calendar. There are new

[59:15] reports that political leaders in

[59:17] California, Florida, and Michigan are

[59:19] gaining momentum in their efforts to

[59:21] move their primaries earlier shortly

[59:23] after the kickoff primary in New

[59:25] Hampshire. The Boston Globe reporting

[59:27] that Democratic Party leaders are

[59:28] particularly alarmed as they work to

[59:30] protect New Hampshire's first in the

[59:33] nation's status while taking steps to

[59:35] hold earlier contests in South Carolina

[59:38] and Nevada. And remember, for the latest

[59:40] political news at any time, check out

[59:43] our political ticker, cnn.com/ticker.

[59:47] And to our viewers, you're in the

[59:49] situation room where new pictures and

[59:50] information are arriving all the time.

[59:53] Standing by, CNN reporters across the

[59:55] United States and around the world to

[59:57] bring you today's top stories. Happening

[59:59] now, there's an allout sectarian

[60:02] slaughter raging in Iraq. The death toll

[60:05] soaring for Sunnis and Shia alike. But

[60:07] is it a civil war with US troops caught

[60:11] right in the middle?

[60:12] >> Can comedian Michael Richards find

[60:14] redemption after his racial rant? A

[60:17] round of apologies, including an

[60:19] emotional radio appearance with the

[60:21] Reverend Jesse Jackson. We caught it all

[60:23] on camera. And scientists find more

[60:26] traces of radiation after the fatal

[60:28] poisoning of a former Russian spy. The

[60:31] British government calling for calm, but

[60:34] are others at risk right now? I'm Wolf

[60:37] Blitzer. You're in the situation room.

[60:54] As President Bush prepares for top level

[60:56] talks aimed at finding answers to the

[60:58] Iraq crisis, death squads stalk the

[61:01] streets of Iraqi cities, leaving bodies

[61:04] behind, often bound and bearing signs of

[61:06] torture. Day in day out, the killing

[61:09] continues for Sunnis and Shia alike. No

[61:12] place is safe as both sides prepare for

[61:14] an allout struggle. But is it actually a

[61:18] civil war already? Let's begin our

[61:20] coverage in Baghdad with CNN's Ara

[61:24] >> Wolf. The US and Iraqi governments

[61:27] continue to insist that Iraq is not in a

[61:29] civil war. But many Iraqis look at the

[61:32] bloodshed around them and say that the

[61:35] civil war here actually started a long

[61:37] time ago.

[61:42] In the religiously charged atmosphere of

[61:44] Bakuba, blindfolded and handcuffed

[61:47] bodies contorted in death arrive at the

[61:50] morg. The local government said the dead

[61:53] were found scattered through the city.

[61:56] Most Shia, some Sunni, as bodies in this

[62:00] ethnically mixed city piled up for the

[62:02] second day.

[62:06] >> This man rages at anyone who will

[62:08] listen.

[62:11] The government is responsible for this,

[62:13] he shouts. The criminals who are running

[62:16] the government. After Thursday's attack

[62:19] in Sutter City that killed at least 200

[62:21] Shia, the government imposed a 3-day

[62:24] curfew in Baghdad, keeping the body

[62:27] count relatively low. But there was no

[62:30] curfew in Bakuba. And the slaughter went

[62:33] on.

[62:35] >> Why? Why? This woman shouts.

[62:41] The Sutter City bombing, the single

[62:43] deadliest sectarian attack of the war,

[62:45] enraged Shia militias and sent the

[62:48] sectarian bloodletting to a whole new

[62:50] level.

[62:52] As one man told us, out here, it's now

[62:55] each man for himself. Sunni websites

[62:58] urge their so-called brothers to carry

[63:00] weapons and share details about attacks

[63:03] in their neighborhoods. Residents and

[63:06] insurgents trade tips on defense against

[63:08] Shia militias.

[63:10] Prepare your weapons and ammunition. It

[63:13] says with the first bullet you shoot,

[63:16] your fear will go away. Plant bombs and

[63:19] tactically position snipers at entrances

[63:21] to your neighborhoods. Fighters should

[63:24] not waste their bullets. Think about

[63:26] your family and remember that they, the

[63:28] militias, burn children with gasoline.

[63:31] Fact or fiction, the internet traffic is

[63:34] fueling fear, hatred, and encouraging

[63:37] violence.

[63:38] And this video posted on an extremist

[63:41] jihadi website shows a new level of

[63:43] brutality. The mujahedin army from

[63:46] Adamia, a Sunni neighborhood, prepare to

[63:48] behead this man whom they claim is with

[63:51] the Shia Mahu militia. The killing

[63:53] moments later takes place as people

[63:56] record images.

[64:00] >> And throughout Iraq, the agony of loss.

[64:03] The failures of the government now

[64:05] painfully obvious as the country comes

[64:08] even closer to fullscale civil war.

[64:11] OBAMA

[64:15] >> trying to curb the violence topping

[64:17] highlevel agendas this week from Iran to

[64:20] Jordan to Iraq. But few here have any

[64:23] hope that their leaders will come up

[64:25] with a solution. Wol,

[64:28] >> what a piece. Thanks very much, Ara, for

[64:30] that. Uh, what a horrible, horrible

[64:32] story. And amid the slaughter, a debate

[64:34] over semantics. To what degree this

[64:37] conflict fits the definition of a civil

[64:40] war? Let's turn to CNN's Carol Costello.

[64:42] She's watching the story for us. Carol?

[64:44] >> Oh, you know, Wolf Kofan and the UN

[64:46] Secretary General told us today Iraq is

[64:49] almost in a civil war. Others say, "Come

[64:52] on already." If what's happening in Iraq

[64:54] doesn't constitute a civil war, what

[64:56] does?

[64:58] The violence in Baghdad has been

[64:59] seemingly non-stop. Some of the worst

[65:02] between Sunni and Shia. It is neighbor

[65:04] killing neighbor. The violence is being

[65:06] played out in a number of ways with

[65:08] Sunnis lobbing mortars into Shia

[65:10] neighborhoods and Shia retaliating.

[65:12] There are death squads targeting both

[65:14] Shia and Sunnis. We asked our man on the

[65:18] ground what it looked like from his

[65:19] perspective. Anyone who still remains in

[65:23] doubt about whether this is civil war or

[65:25] not is suffering from the luxury of

[65:28] distance.

[65:29] >> Still, the definition of civil war is

[65:31] tricky. In part because it has all kinds

[65:33] of political implications. The Bush

[65:35] administration says Iraq is not in a

[65:38] civil war, in part because most of the

[65:40] violence is centered in Baghdad. But

[65:42] some scholars disagree. By the standards

[65:45] of the research community that studies

[65:47] civil wars systematically, it is

[65:50] >> academics define a civil war as two

[65:52] factions within the same culture

[65:54] fighting for political control and a

[65:56] death toll of at least 1,000. For Dr.

[66:00] Bjinsky, national security adviser under

[66:02] President Jimmy Carter, there also is no

[66:05] doubt.

[66:06] >> I've been saying for years that Iraq has

[66:07] been a low-level civil war. Uh, and I

[66:10] think u it is a civil war. You have

[66:12] different groups vying for political

[66:14] power, which is one, I think, very good

[66:17] definition of a civil war.

[66:19] >> But the battle over the civil war

[66:20] definition is causing debate within news

[66:22] departments across the country. NBC came

[66:25] out today stating it would now call

[66:26] what's happening in Iraq a civil war,

[66:29] despite White House denials. Today, host

[66:32] Matt Lowour announced NBC's decision in

[66:34] a matter-of-fact tone. After careful

[66:37] consideration, NBC News has decided a

[66:39] change in terminology is warranted. That

[66:41] the situation in Iraq with armed

[66:43] militarized factions fighting for their

[66:45] own political agendas can now be

[66:47] characterized as civil war.

[66:49] >> Others are still calling it part of a

[66:51] larger conflict in Iraq between

[66:53] different factions fueled by outside

[66:55] players like al-Qaeda and Iran. But

[66:57] there's no question all are fighting for

[67:00] control of Iraq's fledgling government.

[67:03] And you might have noticed in my story,

[67:05] it was not Dr. Bjinsky who said that

[67:07] Iraq was in a civil war. It was Senator

[67:09] Jack Reid. We apologize for that

[67:10] mistake. As for what CNN is calling the

[67:12] war in Iraq, we are not going to label

[67:14] it as anything. Our proper role is to

[67:16] see what experts, academics, think

[67:18] tankers, diplomats choose to call it

[67:20] before weighing in prematurely. So,

[67:22] Wolf, we leave it to our very savvy

[67:24] viewers to decide for themselves.

[67:25] >> And they are very savvy indeed. Thanks,

[67:28] Carol, for that. A bipartisan commission

[67:30] is crashing to come up with a plan for

[67:32] the United States to successfully end

[67:34] the war in Iraq, but there don't appear

[67:36] to be many good options right now. Let's

[67:38] turn to our senior Pentagon

[67:40] correspondent Jamie McIntary watching

[67:42] the story. Jamie.

[67:43] >> Well, Wolf, a lot of people here in

[67:44] Washington and around the country, in

[67:46] fact, around the world are looking to

[67:48] this commission to come up with a plan

[67:50] to end Iraq's slide into chaos. But I

[67:53] got to tell you, here at the Pentagon,

[67:55] expectations are fairly low.

[67:58] >> For the Iraq study group, coming up with

[68:00] a winning strategy is a chicken or egg

[68:02] proposition. Which comes first? Is more

[68:05] stability needed to allow for fewer US

[68:08] troops, or would fewer US troops force

[68:11] Iraq to create more stability?

[68:13] >> Every course of action has a high degree

[68:15] of risk and is not guaranteed to

[68:17] succeed. But I think that there has to

[68:20] be a process that will force the Iraqis

[68:23] to make the difficult decisions they've

[68:25] so far refrained from making.

[68:27] >> A draft proposal now being debated by

[68:29] the Iraq study group reportedly frames

[68:31] the argument around the wisdom of a

[68:34] phased withdrawal as well as engaging

[68:36] Iran and Syria in direct talks. The

[68:39] problem is US commanders, including top

[68:41] commander, General John Abisade, have

[68:43] already rejected the idea of either

[68:45] adding a lot more American troops or any

[68:48] precipitous pull out. So any radical

[68:51] shift in strategy risks running

[68:53] roughshot over the best advice of the US

[68:55] military.

[68:56] >> I think we're setting up an incredible

[68:59] clash between the senior uniform

[69:01] military and our civilian community. To

[69:05] avoid that, many observers believe the

[69:06] study group will advocate a gradual pull

[69:08] out not linked to any firm timetable

[69:11] along with increased training for Iraqi

[69:13] forces. That option is also favored by

[69:15] America's closest ally, Great Britain,

[69:18] which is anxiously eyeing the door. I

[69:20] can tell you that by the end of next

[69:23] year, I expect numbers of British forces

[69:25] in Iraq to be significantly lower by a

[69:28] matter of thousands.

[69:30] The planning for this has been going on

[69:31] for some months. Like the US, Britain

[69:34] says future troop reductions would be

[69:36] conditions permitting.

[69:38] >> Now, the Iraq Study Group, five

[69:39] Democrats, five Republicans are meeting

[69:42] this week in Washington. Their meetings

[69:44] are shrouded in secrecy, but whatever

[69:46] they come up with, Wolf, they are

[69:47] expected to present to Congress before

[69:49] it goes home for the holiday recess

[69:51] sometime early in December. Wolf,

[69:54] >> thanks very much, Jamie, for that.

[69:55] Jaime's at the Pentagon. President Bush,

[69:57] meanwhile, on his personal search for an

[69:59] Iraq solution. He's now in Estonia ahead

[70:02] of a na NATO summit in Latvia. After

[70:05] that, a face-to-face meeting with Iraq's

[70:06] Prime Minister Nuriel Maliki in Jordan.

[70:09] Our talks with Iraq's more hostile

[70:11] neighbors on the agenda. Let's turn to

[70:14] our White House correspondent Suzan

[70:16] Malvo. She's traveling with the

[70:17] president in Estonia. Suzan

[70:21] Wolf, President Bush arrived in Talon,

[70:22] Estonia. This is really his first stop

[70:24] and of course that highstakes diplomatic

[70:26] offensive. Next, he heads to Ria Latafia

[70:29] for the NATO summit. But as you know,

[70:30] all eyes are on those critically

[70:33] important talks between President Bush

[70:34] and the Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al-

[70:36] Maliki on Thursday when they meet in

[70:38] Aman, Jordan. Now, already National

[70:40] Security Adviser Steven Hadley aboard

[70:42] Air Force One gave somewhat of a preview

[70:45] of that meeting. He said first the two

[70:47] leaders would discuss whether or not it

[70:49] was appropriate for the United States to

[70:51] reach out and to talk to its nemesis

[70:53] Iran. regarding Iraq. Hadley saying that

[70:56] he believed Maliki the preference would

[70:59] be for the Iraqis to reach out to Iran

[71:01] and Syria that they would take the lead.

[71:04] Uh secondly, Hadley called this level of

[71:06] violence in Iraq a new phase but denied

[71:10] that it constituted a civil war. And

[71:13] third, he said that they would not be

[71:14] discussing US troop levels, but rather

[71:16] how to increase Iraqi troops and how to

[71:20] do that as quickly as possible. Wolf, as

[71:22] you know, the credibility and legacy of

[71:24] these two leaders is certainly at stake,

[71:26] but Bush administration officials are

[71:28] setting the bar very low for these

[71:30] discussions in case the violence and of

[71:32] course the situation in Iraq gets worse

[71:34] before it gets better. Wolf,

[71:36] >> let me just get the timeline straight,

[71:38] Suzanne. Tonight he's in Estonia.

[71:40] Tomorrow he goes to the NATO summit in

[71:42] Latia. And then Wednesday he flies to

[71:44] Jordan for meetings with King Abdullah

[71:46] of Jordan and Nuriel Maliki. What?

[71:48] Wednesday or Thursday?

[71:51] Wednesday is when he arrives in Aman

[71:53] Jordan and then he will have dinner uh

[71:56] with King Abdullah of Jordan and then

[71:58] it's Thursday when he actually holds

[72:00] those talks with Maliki.

[72:01] >> Suzan Malvo will be watching every

[72:03] Washington we'll get him when he gets

[72:05] back here as well. Thanks Suzanne.

[72:07] She'll be traveling with the president

[72:09] all of this week. Jack Caerty won't be

[72:11] traveling with the president all of this

[72:13] week but he's here in the situation room

[72:14] all of this week. Yeah,

[72:16] >> that shouldn't surprise you that I

[72:17] haven't been invited to travel with the

[72:19] president. Outgoing Defense Secretary

[72:21] Donald Rumsfeld may be out of the

[72:23] spotlight these days, but he's still in

[72:24] the hot seat. Former US Army Brigadier

[72:27] General Janice Carpinsky told a Spanish

[72:30] newspaper over the weekend. She saw a

[72:32] memo signed by Rumsfeld allowing

[72:35] civilian contractors to use harsh

[72:38] interrogation techniques on detainees at

[72:40] Abu Greb prison. According to the

[72:43] article, she also said Rumsfeld

[72:45] authorized army personnel to take in

[72:48] inmates at that prison without

[72:49] registering them. Both those actions

[72:51] violate the Geneva Conventions.

[72:54] Carpinsky, who ran Abu Greb until the

[72:57] scandal broke wide open with those

[72:58] famous pictures we saw, was eventually

[73:01] demoted from her post in 2004. She says

[73:04] she was made a scapegoat. Karpinsky was

[73:07] later removed from active duty on

[73:09] unrelated charges. Since then, she has

[73:11] openly criticized tactics used by

[73:14] Rumsfeld and Company. Last week, she

[73:16] said she'd be willing to testify against

[73:18] Rumsfeld in a war crimes investigation

[73:20] that could result from a lawsuit that

[73:23] was filed by civil rights groups in

[73:24] Germany. So, here's the question this

[73:26] hour. Will Karpinsky's claims about

[73:29] Donald Rumsfeld fall on deaf ears in

[73:31] Washington DC? Email your thoughts to

[73:34] Caertify File at CNN.com or go to

[73:37] CNN.com/caffertyfile.

[73:39] Wolf Jack, thank you for that. Up ahead,

[73:41] comedian Michael Richards trying to make

[73:44] amends for his racially charged rant.

[73:46] CNN caught up with Richards. We're going

[73:48] to play you that interview. Also, the

[73:51] mystery deepens over the fatal radiation

[73:53] poisoning of a former Russian spy in

[73:55] London. We'll have the latest. Plus,

[73:58] Venezuela's president ramping up his

[74:00] anti-US rhetoric ahead of his country's

[74:02] election. Stay with us. You're in the

[74:05] situation.

[74:07] Morning everybody.

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[76:56] >> The spy is dead, but the mystery

[76:58] surrounding him is growing by the hour.

[77:01] So are concerns about people who may

[77:03] have been exposed to the rare

[77:04] radioactive poison that killed him.

[77:07] CNN's Paula Newton is in London with the

[77:09] latest. Paula.

[77:11] >> Wolf. Authorities here admit this is one

[77:13] of the most challenging investigations

[77:15] they've ever had to deal with. and add

[77:16] to that a public alert by anyone who was

[77:19] at a restaurant or a hotel where

[77:21] Alexander Lethano was on November 1st.

[77:24] There are three people that are now

[77:26] undergoing further tests for radiation

[77:28] poisoning.

[77:30] His doctors called it chemical torture.

[77:33] And in the hours before his death,

[77:34] former Russian spy Alexander Lethano

[77:37] bared the scars of it. His organs

[77:39] failing, his body surrendering, but not

[77:42] his mind. until the last he fingered the

[77:46] Kremlin. A charge echoed by his father.

[77:50] >> This regime is a mortal danger to the

[77:52] world. He fought this regime. He

[77:55] understood it. And this regime got him.

[77:58] What actually got him, investigators

[78:00] say, is a rare radioactive element

[78:02] called pelonium 210. And now trying to

[78:05] figure out when and how he was poisoned

[78:08] is turning into a sensational who done

[78:10] it. His friends say the palonium should

[78:12] be like a fingerprint for police. It

[78:14] implicates Russian intelligence

[78:16] executing the government's orders.

[78:19] >> We uh know that the Russian regime has

[78:23] evolved into a kind of authoritarian

[78:26] dictatorship by now with no checks and

[78:28] balances.

[78:30] Russian President Vladimir Putin denies

[78:32] any and all involvement.

[78:35] I hope that British authorities would

[78:39] not contribute to instigation of

[78:41] political scandals. Has nothing to do

[78:44] with reality.

[78:45] >> It's now up to Scotland Yard to sort all

[78:48] of this out. Investigators are combing

[78:50] through Lit Vanenko's North London home,

[78:52] the sushi restaurant where he had lunch

[78:54] on November 1st, and the hotel where

[78:57] earlier that same day he met with two

[78:59] Russian men. All the sites are now

[79:01] contaminated with radiation and

[79:03] authorities are asking people who may

[79:05] have been affected to come forward. The

[79:08] British government says of the 500

[79:10] people who have so far been identified,

[79:13] three are being checked for possible

[79:15] radiation poisoning. It seems Britain's

[79:18] now need some reassurance.

[79:20] >> The police are continuing with an

[79:22] extensive examination of CCTV footage to

[79:25] trace possible witnesses to examine Mr.

[79:28] and Yenko's movements at relevant times,

[79:31] including when he first became ill.

[79:34] >> But police remain challenged by this

[79:36] bizarre murder that now threatens to

[79:38] strain relations between Britain and

[79:40] Russia. As a former secret agent,

[79:43] Leonenko made plenty of enemies. He was

[79:45] one of Putin's harshest critics in the

[79:47] last few years, but in truth, there were

[79:51] many people with the means and the

[79:53] motive to silence him. Wolf

[79:55] >> Paula, thank you for that. Uh, the CIA,

[79:57] by the way, is looking for a few good

[79:59] spies. Their latest recruiting

[80:01] technique, an online quiz aimed at

[80:02] luring younger, newer agents. Are you a

[80:05] daring thrillseker or an impressive

[80:08] mastermind? Our internet reporter Abby

[80:10] Tatton with some answers. Abby

[80:12] >> Wolf, this is a tongue-in-cheek

[80:14] personality test from the CIA where

[80:16] you're going to be ask answering

[80:17] questions on what kind of superpower you

[80:19] would most like or what mode of

[80:21] transportation you prefer. And based on

[80:24] whether you say flying or submarines or

[80:26] whatever you answer, it will give you a

[80:28] result. No, being labeled a curious

[80:30] adventure isn't going to affect your

[80:32] chances either way of employment at the

[80:35] CIA. CIA spokesman Tom Crispel says this

[80:38] is just an entertaining way to drive

[80:40] people to the recruiting website and to

[80:42] dispel a few myths about what it's like

[80:44] to work for the CIA. Apparently,

[80:46] according to the site, it's not all

[80:48] tuxedos and car chases. In November of

[80:51] 2004, President Bush ordered an increase

[80:54] in the ranks of CIA operators and

[80:56] analysts of 50%, a process that Chris

[80:59] Bell said was well underway. The efforts

[81:02] have evolved through print ads as well

[81:04] as radio and television ads. This is the

[81:07] CIA's bug ad that ran on the Discovery

[81:10] Channel and an effort to boost

[81:11] recruitment in the science and

[81:13] technology divisions of the CIA. Chris

[81:15] Bell says applications have been up

[81:17] every single year since 2001. It's

[81:20] September 11th. Right now that reaching

[81:22] a record of 135,000 in 2006. Wolf

[81:26] >> Abby, thanks very much. Abby Tatton on

[81:28] the CIA. Coming up, there's a growing

[81:31] consensus among a lot of observers that

[81:33] Iraq has already fallen into an allout

[81:36] civil war. We'll talk about that and

[81:37] more with our world affairs analyst, the

[81:40] former defense secretary, William Cohen.

[81:42] Plus, a New York City man killed hours

[81:44] before his wedding in a hail of police

[81:46] gunfire. Now, the mayor, Michael

[81:48] Bloomberg, calling the case unacceptable

[81:51] and inexplicable. Stay with us. You're

[81:54] in the situation.

[81:58] AC3 tonight. The pope who enraged

[82:01] Muslims now faces them head on. And

[82:03] Anderson Cooper is there firsthand. AC

[82:06] 360 tonight. 10.

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[84:47] >> Venezuela's presidential election is

[84:49] less than a week away. And that has the

[84:51] incumbent Hugo Chavez stepping up his

[84:53] anti-US rhetoric with fresh attacks on

[84:56] his favorite target. That would be

[84:58] President Bush. CNN's Brian Todd joining

[85:00] us from the newsroom with more. Brian

[85:02] >> Wolf. The foundation of the Chavez

[85:04] re-election campaign is his opposition

[85:06] to Washington on just about everything.

[85:08] And as he told a giant crowd at a

[85:09] campaign rally, a vote for him is a vote

[85:12] against George W. Bush.

[85:15] >> On December 3rd, we're going to defeat

[85:17] the most powerful empire on Earth by

[85:19] knockout. Ugo Chavez, firing up hundreds

[85:23] of thousands of people who filled the

[85:24] streets of the Venezuelan capital for a

[85:26] re-election rally.

[85:30] He used the opportunity to bash his

[85:32] favorite target, President Bush, noting

[85:34] that leaders who have supported Bush in

[85:36] the past paid a price, citing former

[85:38] Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Oznar.

[85:41] He lost an election days after bomb

[85:43] attacks by Islamic extremists in Madrid

[85:46] killed nearly 200 people.

[85:50] And another one that has turned into

[85:51] space dust is Oznar. Oznar and Bush have

[85:54] turned into space dust. Chavez is widely

[85:58] favored to win a third term when

[85:59] Venezuelans head to the polls this

[86:01] Sunday. A new AP Ipsos poll shows him

[86:04] far ahead of opposition candidate Manuel

[86:06] Rosales, 59% to 27%. Those numbers

[86:11] indicating that Chavez's fiery

[86:13] anti-American rhetoric sits well with

[86:15] many Venezuelans. The same poll shows

[86:17] 63% of those asked have a negative view

[86:20] of President Bush, while 55% have

[86:23] negative views of the US in general. But

[86:25] there's more than bush bashing fueling

[86:27] his popularity. Chavez is a hero among

[86:30] many of his country's poor who see him

[86:32] as responding to their needs. And

[86:34] there's also broad support from

[86:36] Venezuela's burgeoning bureaucracy. It's

[86:39] doubled in size under Chavez with some 2

[86:41] million workers now in a country of just

[86:44] 26 million people. Critics charge that

[86:46] civil servants are facing pressure to

[86:48] back Chavez. But whatever the source of

[86:51] his support, Chavez remains almost

[86:53] certain to win another six-year term.

[86:59] >> No one can take victory from us. We are

[87:00] going to win on the 3rd of December

[87:02] without any doubt.

[87:05] >> And Mr. Chavez says he will dedicate his

[87:07] victory to his close ally, Cuba's Fidel

[87:10] Castro, the 50th anniversary of Castro's

[87:12] return to that island and the beginning

[87:14] of Castro's revolution. Wolf

[87:16] >> Brian Todd, thanks for that. And to our

[87:18] viewers, you're on the situation room

[87:20] where new pictures and information are

[87:21] arriving all the time. Happening right

[87:24] now, the president of Iraq meets the

[87:26] president of Iran. Iraq's Jalal

[87:28] Talibani. Iran's Mahmud Ahmad Nagad met

[87:31] in Thran to discuss Iraq's future.

[87:33] Iran's state-run media saying Talibani

[87:36] talked about the need for Iran's help in

[87:39] squashing the violence in Iraq. Israel

[87:42] offering to release Palestinian

[87:44] prisoners if Palestinian militants free

[87:47] an Israeli soldier kidnapped 5 months

[87:49] ago. Prime Minister Auda making the

[87:52] offer today. It comes as Israel trying

[87:54] to restart peace talks with the

[87:56] Palestinians. And is it a crime? In

[88:00] Missouri, a fire at a group home for the

[88:02] elderly and mentally ill that killed 10

[88:05] people is being treated as one. That

[88:07] according to Missouri's governor who

[88:09] says officials want to know if someone

[88:10] intentionally set the fire. I'm Wolf

[88:13] Blitzer. You're in the situation room.

[88:32] Right now in New York, friends and

[88:34] family who were supposed to be

[88:35] celebrating one man's wedding are now

[88:37] mourning his death. There's fresh

[88:39] fallout from over the 23-year-old who

[88:42] was shot and killed literally hours

[88:44] before he was to marry the mother of his

[88:46] children. Mary Snow standing by in New

[88:49] York with the latest details. Mary

[88:51] >> Wolf as anger builds over this weekend's

[88:53] police shooting, the mayor of New York

[88:55] reached out to black community leaders,

[88:57] vowing a full and fair investigation.

[89:01] They emerge united for a press

[89:03] conference, but behind closed doors, an

[89:05] insider described the atmosphere among

[89:07] community leaders as electric and heated

[89:09] at times. Mayor Mike Bloomberg and

[89:11] police commissioner Ray Kelly met with

[89:13] clergy members and elected officials to

[89:15] deal with the outrage over Saturday's

[89:17] police shooting. Five officers fired 50

[89:19] shots, killing groomed to be Shawn Bell

[89:21] and injuring his two friends. The men

[89:23] were later found to be unarmed.

[89:25] >> It sounds to me like excessive force was

[89:28] used, but that's up to the district

[89:29] attorney to find out.

[89:31] >> While the details are still under

[89:33] investigation, police say the men struck

[89:35] an undercover officer while on foot and

[89:37] hit a police van twice. But another

[89:39] question being raised in this case is

[89:41] whether race played a factor. The police

[89:43] shooting evoked memories of Ahmed Dio,

[89:46] an unarmed African immigrant killed by

[89:48] police in 1999. The cops who shot him 41

[89:51] times were white and they were all

[89:53] acquitted.

[89:54] >> This is very, very unusual and reminds

[89:58] me of a tragedy that took place with Mr.

[90:01] Dialo. And uh we can't have that.

[90:05] >> Compared to the 1999 shooting, one

[90:07] difference is the racial makeup of the

[90:08] officers. Two are white, two are black,

[90:11] and one is Hispanic. Former New York

[90:13] City Mayor David Dinkens says another

[90:15] big difference is the fact that

[90:16] Bloomberg is meeting directly with black

[90:18] community leaders who felt shut out in

[90:20] 1999.

[90:22] >> The difference between then and now is

[90:24] this uh day and night.

[90:27] >> Rudy Giuliani was mayor at the time of

[90:28] Dio's death. Dinkens was highly critical

[90:31] of him and was among black leaders who

[90:33] took to the streets. We were outraged.

[90:36] And so in order to to focus further

[90:40] attention on it, I and Congressman

[90:42] Charles Wrangle and others, Al Sharpton,

[90:45] we were all arrested at one police

[90:48] plaza.

[90:49] >> Then as now, Reverend Al Sharpton is at

[90:51] the forefront calling for justice. He

[90:53] agrees dealing with city officials has

[90:55] changed, but

[90:57] >> it is better tone, but will it lead to

[91:00] results? We're not just looking to talk.

[91:02] We're looking for action.

[91:05] >> The shooting is now being investigated

[91:07] by the Queen's District Attorney who is

[91:09] meeting with family members of the

[91:11] victims and leaders as we speak. Wolf.

[91:13] >> All right, Mary. Thanks very much, Mary

[91:15] Snow reporting.

[91:20] And there's a disturbing story coming in

[91:22] from Atlanta. Let's turn to CNN's Carol

[91:24] Costello for that. What are we learning,

[91:26] Carol?

[91:27] >> Well, you know, Wolf, we were telling

[91:28] you about that 92year-old woman shot to

[91:30] death by police in Atlanta. Well, now

[91:32] police there are asking the FBI to

[91:34] conduct an independent investigation of

[91:36] that drug raid shooting. The police

[91:38] chief Richard Pennington has announced

[91:39] the narcotics unit is being placed on

[91:42] paid leave during the probe. Of course,

[91:44] we'll continue to follow this story and

[91:46] bring you the latest details that we get

[91:48] them. But from what we understand,

[91:49] police have said that 92-year-old woman

[91:51] pulled a gun and that's why they opened

[91:53] fire. But again, now the FBI is going to

[91:56] get involved. Wolf,

[91:57] >> we'll stay on top of this story as well.

[91:58] Carol, thanks for that. Uh, coming up,

[92:01] our interview with the comedian Michael

[92:03] Richards on an apology PR blitz. Are

[92:06] African-American leaders receptive to

[92:09] his regrets over his racial tirade?

[92:11] We'll hear what he has to say. Stay with

[92:13] us. You're in the situation.

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[94:48] Larry King tonight. Former President

[94:50] Jimmy Carter. Once he helped broker

[94:52] Middle East peace, now he sheds light on

[94:55] the unpopular war in Iraq. Democrats

[94:57] taking over Congress and more. Larry

[94:59] King Live tonight 9 Eastern, only on

[95:02] CNN.

[95:05] >> Now to some new developments concerning

[95:06] the actor known as Kramer in the

[95:08] Seinfeld sitcom and his recent racist

[95:11] rant. Michael Richards is saying he's

[95:13] sorry once again. He appeared on the

[95:15] Reverend Jesse Jackson's nationally

[95:17] syndicated radio program yesterday and

[95:19] Richards says he's not a racist. CNN's

[95:23] entertainment correspondent Broo

[95:24] Anderson caught up with the actor right

[95:26] after his appearance on that program.

[95:30] >> What's your next step?

[95:31] >> Uh personal work. Deep personal work

[95:34] >> as in therapy, psychology.

[95:37] >> Yes. To get to get to the depths of my

[95:39] um of anger, the issues of anger. Have

[95:42] you seen it? Have you seen someone or

[95:44] are you going to see someone?

[95:45] >> Yes, I'm in I'm in I'm seeing someone

[95:47] now.

[95:47] >> Okay. Um after the incident, 24 hours

[95:51] later, you were allowed back on stage

[95:52] because

[95:53] >> I was asked to come back to get back on

[95:55] the horse and that was I was an attempt

[95:57] to recover my my sense of showmanship in

[96:00] the course of my work and uh uh and

[96:05] that's why I went back Saturday night. I

[96:08] was asked to come back Saturday night by

[96:09] the club owner. Uh, and that was a

[96:12] creative matter, an artistic matter to

[96:14] see if I could keep moving as an artist.

[96:16] >> And the club owner said, um, you had had

[96:19] told him you were going to apologize

[96:20] that night, but you didn't.

[96:21] >> No, no, I I did not. That that's that's

[96:25] um that that hurts me. That hurts me. I

[96:28] was uh told to come back and work and

[96:31] get back on the horse, so to speak, and

[96:34] that hurts me. Broo, I think what was

[96:36] meaningful today, I was reached out to I

[96:40] reached out to Mel Watt, chair of the

[96:42] Congressional Black Caucus, and to Dr.

[96:45] Wade and to Willis Evers and Hassan,

[96:47] NAACP leaders to try to assess

[96:52] what happened and the ramifications of

[96:55] what happened

[96:56] >> cuz clearly this was a a meltdown and it

[96:59] was uh painful and traumatic

[97:03] and in greater measure for children far

[97:05] beyond the scene. And one thing come out

[97:09] of this is challenging all artists and

[97:11] media to stop broadcasting the word

[97:14] because it's hate language and it's

[97:16] divisive and painful to people and then

[97:19] he agreed to deal with his own internal

[97:24] stuff he has to work through. I really

[97:26] have some other artists like Paul Mo who

[97:28] has worked with Michael to talk with him

[97:30] because the appears now the bigger issue

[97:33] for us frankly is this is the rock that

[97:36] hit the water. The concentric circles

[97:39] are why we had Senior Hall on Nighttime

[97:44] coming 15 years ago, now zero. We had

[97:47] Bill Cosby show number one 20 years ago,

[97:50] now zero. Uh we had um uh Max Robinson

[97:55] on ABC News World Night Zero. Now we

[97:58] have more cables and with the exception

[98:01] of Robin Robertson, ABC and Soul Dad,

[98:04] all day, all night, all white. So this

[98:08] means he is a symbol but that this is

[98:09] not an aberration. We want to deal with

[98:11] the we want we intend to meet a some

[98:14] artists in the use of this porative word

[98:16] but more than that we intend to meet

[98:18] with these major media outlets on their

[98:21] opening up again becoming more

[98:23] multicultural

[98:25] more multivation more diverse in their

[98:28] writers and producers and art form. Do

[98:32] you see yourself as a symbol of this

[98:34] bigger issue now?

[98:37] >> Perhaps a voice that got it in motion.

[98:40] >> How do you think this went this morning?

[98:42] >> Okay.

[98:42] >> Uh very well. The African-American

[98:45] community is um I mean the leadership

[98:48] has has uh opened up the healing.

[98:51] >> Mhm.

[98:51] >> And for that I'm grateful.

[98:55] >> And today the Reverend Jesse Jackson

[98:56] attended a separate news conference on

[98:58] the matter. He's calling on the entire

[99:00] entertainment industry to stop using the

[99:02] racial slur Michael Richard used. And

[99:05] the owner of the Laugh Factory is

[99:07] already listening. That's the forum

[99:10] where Richard used the racial racial

[99:12] slur in a news conference within the

[99:13] past hour. The owner says he's banning

[99:16] comedians from using that word on stage.

[99:19] We'll stay on top of the story. Still to

[99:21] come, defining the Iraq conflict. Is it

[99:24] a civil war? And whatever it is, can

[99:26] Iran, yes, Iran, make a difference? I'll

[99:29] ask a key member of our CNN Security

[99:31] Council, the former defense secretary,

[99:33] William Cohen. And the sounds of cancer,

[99:36] can you beat the disease by listening

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[102:33] Welcome back. President Bush's attention

[102:35] this week is focused on possible

[102:37] solutions to the violence in Iraq, which

[102:38] may now be, according to some, a

[102:41] full-fledged civil war. Could one of the

[102:43] president's other foes, namely Iran,

[102:45] help provide an answer? Joining us now

[102:48] are world affairs analyst, the former

[102:49] defense secretary William Cohen.

[102:51] chairman and CEO of the Cohen Group here

[102:54] in Washington. This image is startling.

[102:57] The Iranian leader Mahmud Ahmad Jad

[103:00] warmly embracing the visiting president

[103:02] of Iraq, Jalal Talibani. What do you

[103:05] make of this? Can Iraq, I guess that's

[103:07] the bottom line, play a useful role in

[103:10] stopping this warfare? Well, first it

[103:12] would be somewhat hypocritical on the

[103:13] part of the United States if in fact the

[103:15] Baker uh study group, the Iraq study

[103:18] group is going to recommend that the

[103:19] United States talk to Iran and Syria.

[103:22] It' be rather hypocritical for us to say

[103:23] that the elected officials u the purple

[103:26] finger um recipients of uh of the the

[103:28] vote of the the Iraqi people could not

[103:30] meet with Iran. The difficulty with the

[103:33] meeting, as far as I'm concerned, is it

[103:35] looks as if it's part of the

[103:36] protectionist racket. In other words,

[103:38] Iran and Syria, especially Iran, have

[103:40] been helping to fuel this insurgency,

[103:42] have been funding uh some of the

[103:43] militias, and now they say, "We'll, you

[103:45] know, basically we'll burn your house

[103:46] down unless you pay us to protect you."

[103:48] And that's the equivalent of what

[103:49] they're talking about now. We will not

[103:51] uh we will continue to fuel this

[103:53] insurgency unless we become part of the

[103:55] solution. So, it's from a a a perception

[103:58] point of view, it looks as if they are

[104:00] in the driver's seat, and certainly the

[104:02] Iraqi government is not. I mean, is this

[104:04] why the United States went to war in

[104:06] Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein to elevate

[104:08] Iran and to make Iran a regional player?

[104:11] >> Well, I think it's important for the

[104:13] United States to talk to Iran. But the

[104:15] question is on whose terms? We have the

[104:17] other issue, namely their continuation

[104:19] of the pursuit of nuclear weapons. As

[104:21] I've said before, I think what we have

[104:23] to do is to get the key members of the

[104:25] international community as such, the

[104:27] five permanent members of the security

[104:29] council to come down hard on Iran. Uh,

[104:31] and then that would give at least the

[104:32] United States some leverage. At this

[104:34] point, our leverage seems to be help us

[104:36] out because we have the only leverage

[104:38] you have is we're going to leave and

[104:39] you'll have a burning fuse on your

[104:41] doorstep. So therefore, come in and help

[104:43] save us from that. That's not a great

[104:44] position for us to be in.

[104:46] >> James Baker, who runs this Iraq study

[104:48] group together with former Democratic

[104:49] Congressman Lee Hamilton, five

[104:51] Democrats, five Republicans, part of it.

[104:53] But I remember I covered James Baker

[104:55] when he was Secretary of State during

[104:57] the first Bush presidency. He loved

[104:59] these international conferences, the

[105:01] Madrid conference on the Middle East, a

[105:04] big conference before the US went to war

[105:06] to liberate Kuwait. I suspect, and

[105:09] correct me if if if you disagree, uh

[105:11] he's going to come up with a proposal

[105:13] for a big international conference. And

[105:15] we see the advance work going on right

[105:17] now. Cheney goes to Saudi Arabia, the

[105:19] president's going to Jordan, they're

[105:21] talking to Hosni Mubarak. What do you

[105:23] sense of this?

[105:24] >> I think it's going to be a political

[105:26] recommendation. And after all the the

[105:28] various members of that group are basic

[105:30] political veterans who have to make

[105:33] political have had political judgments

[105:35] in and made them in the past. So it's

[105:37] going to be a regional approach saying

[105:39] that's part of the key element. I think

[105:41] they will talk in terms of benchmarks,

[105:43] not in terms of timetables. And I think

[105:45] that they will probably give cover or

[105:47] hold the Democratic party for a limited

[105:50] time. But I think the longer this goes

[105:52] on without some reduction in American

[105:54] force structure, then the Democrats will

[105:56] then be accused of being part of the

[105:57] problem, not part of the solution. So

[105:59] it's going to be a difficult uh

[106:01] negotiation as such. But I think it's

[106:03] going to say, let's have a regional

[106:05] approach. Let's include the Middle East

[106:06] peace process. Let's get the Israelis

[106:08] talking to the Palestinians. Let's talk

[106:09] to the Iranians and the Syrians and then

[106:12] let's talk in terms of benchmarks and

[106:13] what Maliki has to do to get control

[106:16] over the internal divisions in their

[106:18] society. Otherwise, we're going to

[106:20] accelerate that departure out.

[106:21] >> And a key question, where will that

[106:23] international conference take place? My

[106:25] bet Geneva, Switzerland, but we'll see.

[106:27] Uh people are already speculating on

[106:29] that front. Thanks very much for coming

[106:30] in.

[106:30] >> Good to be here. Well,

[106:31] >> let's check in with Lou Dobs to see

[106:33] what's coming up right at the top of the

[106:34] hour, Lou.

[106:35] >> Well, thank you very much. Coming up at

[106:37] 6 p.m. here on CNN, more of our troops

[106:40] have been killed in Iraq. The violence

[106:42] there is escalating to its worst level

[106:44] of this war. We'll have reports from

[106:46] both the Pentagon and of course Baghdad.

[106:49] Three of the country's most

[106:50] distinguished. Former military leaders

[106:52] join us to assess future US policy in

[106:55] Iraq. Also tonight, not only does the

[106:58] United States have a staggering record

[107:00] trade deficit with China, it now turns

[107:02] out that the Bush administration is

[107:04] facing strong criticism for helping

[107:06] train Chinese police. That's right, a

[107:09] democracy helping a totalitarian state.

[107:12] Train its police. We'll have that

[107:14] special report. And the rise of leftist

[107:16] leaders across Latin America. What is

[107:18] the US policy in this hemisphere? Is

[107:20] there a US policy? We'll find out. and

[107:23] two of the country's foremost experts on

[107:25] Russia are joining us to discuss the

[107:27] Levinko assassination and future US

[107:30] policy toward Putin's new Russia. Please

[107:33] join us for all of that at the top of

[107:34] the hour here on CNN. Back to you, Wolf.

[107:37] What do you think, Lou? Uh you're you're

[107:39] always outspoken on this debate of

[107:41] whether or not this is already a civil

[107:43] war in Iraq right now. It's significant

[107:46] because the American public didn't

[107:48] bargain for US troops getting involved

[107:50] in a civil war. Uh Wolf, I try to be

[107:53] outspoken on those issues which I've

[107:54] carefully analyzed and know a great

[107:57] deal. Uh the fact is I have not analyzed

[108:00] whether it is important to call this a

[108:02] civil war or sectarian violence. All I

[108:05] know is that 3,000 of our troops have

[108:07] been killed. Uh 20,000 more have been

[108:10] wounded. Half of them very seriously so

[108:12] seriously they could not return to

[108:14] action. And I still don't know what the

[108:16] US policy and strategy is in Iraq for

[108:19] victory. I think against that the

[108:21] semantics are frankly illrelevant. Wol

[108:24] >> Lou, thanks very much. Lou, coming up in

[108:26] a few minutes right at the top of the

[108:28] hour, still ahead here in the situation

[108:30] room, a former top military official

[108:32] reportedly makes a scurless allegation

[108:34] against defense secretary Donald

[108:36] Rumsfeld. And Jack Caerty wants to know

[108:39] if her claims will fall on deaf ears

[108:41] here in Washington. Jack, we'll be back

[108:43] with your thoughts. Stay with us. You're

[108:45] in the situation.

[108:48] Heat. Heat.

[109:19] Why aren't middle class wages going up?

[109:21] Why does it take two incomes just to get

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[109:24] >> Lou Dos tonight. CNN coming up next.

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[111:37] >> Let's check back with Jack Caerty in New

[111:39] York. Jack

[111:40] >> Wolf, the question is, will former

[111:42] Brigadier General Janet Carpinsky's

[111:44] claims that outgoing Defense Secretary

[111:46] Donald Rumsfeld oayed prison abuses in a

[111:49] memo fall on deaf ears in Washington?

[111:53] Rick in Toronto writes, "The state of

[111:54] cover up on this issue is probably

[111:57] institutional in scope. Who involved in

[111:59] government doesn't stand to lose if the

[112:02] senior members of the administration are

[112:04] proven to have approved of torture?" So,

[112:06] of course, the cover up must be

[112:08] maintained and Carpinsky will be

[112:10] discredited by the authorities.

[112:13] Uh Jim in Kensington, Maryland writes,

[112:15] "They'll fall on deaf ears where this

[112:17] administration is concerned. Perhaps

[112:19] they will be heard though when

[112:20] impeachment proceedings begin. Carol

[112:23] writes, "Can you say sour grapes anyone?

[112:25] If Karpinsky didn't get demoted, she

[112:27] wouldn't be offering to testify against

[112:29] Rumsfeld in Germany. If you ask me,

[112:31] Rumsfeld wasn't tough enough." Leah

[112:33] writes from New York, "Inside the

[112:35] beltway, absolutely. Outside, absolutely

[112:38] not. The American public has finally

[112:40] wised up." Gerald writes from Las Vegas,

[112:43] "I'm betting on the deaf ears outcome.

[112:45] to try Rumsfeld as a war criminal leads

[112:47] to the obvious conclusion that the

[112:49] president and vice president are also

[112:51] guilty. And James writes, "If you find

[112:53] any other type of ear in Washington, let

[112:56] me know." If you didn't see your email

[112:58] here, you can go to cnn.com/caffertyfile

[113:00] where you can read more of these little

[113:02] gems online. Wolf,

[113:04] >> Jack, see you back here in an hour in

[113:06] the situation room. Up next, the future

[113:08] of fighting cancer. We'll have that

[113:11] report. Miles O'Brien with that. Stay

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[117:01] report. Miles Wolf, when it comes to

[117:04] fighting cancer, detection is crucial.

[117:07] This year alone, almost 1.4 4 million

[117:09] Americans will be diagnosed with cancer.

[117:11] But with better detection methods on the

[117:13] way, the chances of survival are getting

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[117:18] the University of Missouri Columbia says

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[117:28] cells using this laser induced

[117:30] ultrasound. Melanoma usually contains

[117:33] melanin which is the color that the

[117:35] laser needs to be absorbed and create

[117:37] these ultrasonic waves.

[117:39] >> But Vtor says by adding color to the

[117:41] colorless cancer cells, this technique

[117:44] may also be effective in detecting other

[117:46] cancers.

[117:47] >> This technology has the potential to

[117:49] impact oncology and cancer care across

[117:53] the board. Today, in order for an MRI or

[117:55] CAT scan to detect cancer, a patient

[117:58] must already have about a million cancer

[118:00] cells in their body. But Vitor says this

[118:02] technology could be used to detect as

[118:04] few as 10 cancer cells in the body. And

[118:07] one day, it could even identify a single

[118:10] cancer cell. It takes away the waiting

[118:12] game. I want to know right now, am I

[118:15] still clear?

[118:16] >> Dr. Vitor says the immediacy of the test

[118:19] results would dramatically improve

[118:20] patient care. After blood is drawn,

[118:23] patients would know in just 30 minutes

[118:25] the nature and extent of their disease.

[118:27] Vitor expects it to be available within

[118:29] two to five years. Wol

[118:32] >> Miles, thanks for that. And here's a

[118:34] look at some of the hot shots coming in

[118:36] from our friends over at the Associated

[118:37] Press. Pictures likely to be in your

[118:39] hometown newspapers tomorrow. Let's go

[118:41] to Baghdad. First, mourers take part in

[118:44] a funeral procession for those killed in

[118:46] a mortar attack yesterday. In central

[118:49] London, police walked past the boarded

[118:51] up and guarded sushi bar where former

[118:54] Russian spy Alexander Lufanko had lunch

[118:57] before getting sick and later dying from

[118:59] what's believed to be radiation

[119:01] poisoning. In northeastern Iran, two

[119:04] villagers wrestle. That's part of a

[119:06] traditional wedding party. And here in

[119:08] Washington, look at this. Jerry Marin,

[119:10] one of the lollipop guild munchkins from

[119:12] the Wizard of Oz movie, stands next to

[119:15] entertainment memorabilia over at the

[119:17] Smithsonian. Some of uh today's hot

[119:20] shots, pictures often worth a thousand

[119:23] words. We're here in the situation room

[119:26] weekday afternoons from 4 to 6:00 p.m.

[119:28] Eastern. Back in 1 hour at 700 p.m.

[119:30] Eastern. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

[119:32] Let's check in with Lou. He's standing

[119:34] by in New York. Lou,

[119:36] >> well, thank you. Tonight, eight more of

[119:38] our troops have been killed in Iraq.

[119:40] Hundreds of Iraqis killed. Sectarian

[119:43] violence has escalated to the worst

[119:44] level since this war began. We'll have

[119:46] reports from the Pentagon and Baghdad

[119:48] tonight. Also, a company that built part

[119:51] of a fence along our southern border

[119:52] with Mexico is now under investigation

[119:55] by federal authorities. That's right,

[119:57] for hiring illegal aliens. And from

[120:00] Moscow to Massachusetts, two of the

[120:01] country's leading experts on Russia join

[120:04] us for analysis of the Litmano

[120:06] assassination and the future of US

[120:08] relations with Putin's new Russia. All

[120:11] of that and a great deal more straight

[120:13] ahead here tonight.

[120:18] >> This is Lou Dos Tonight. News, debate,

[120:21] and opinion for Monday, November 27th,

[120:24] live in New York. Lou Dobs.

[120:27] >> Good evening everybody. The White House

[120:29] tonight acknowledged that the violence

[120:30] in Iraq has entered a new phase.

[120:33] Sectarian violence has escalated sharply

[120:35] over the past week. Our troops now

[120:38] appear to be the only military force in

[120:40] Iraq capable of stopping the country

[120:42] from sliding into allout civil war.

[120:45] President Bush today arrived in Estonia

[120:47] for the first of a series of highlevel

[120:49] talks about the wars in both Iraq and

[120:51] Afghanistan. Today, the Iraq Study Group

[120:54] met in Washington, DC to discuss US

[120:57] strategy and options in Iraq. Jimmy

[120:59] McIntyre tonight reports from the

[121:01] Pentagon on the study group's struggle

[121:03] to come up with a strategy for the war

[121:05] in Iraq. Suzan Malo reports from Estonia

[121:08] on the president's efforts to win

[121:10] support of key allies for his policies

[121:12] and the war on terror and against

[121:14] radical Islamists. and Arla Damon

[121:16] tonight reporting from Baghdad on the

[121:19] rising preparations of the Iraqi people

[121:21] for what appears to be a fullscale civil

[121:24] war about to be unleashed. We turn first

[121:27] to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.

[121:29] Jamie, well Lou, a lot of people are

[121:31] looking toward the Baker Hamilton

[121:33] Commission for Salvation when it comes

[121:35] to Iraq, but here at the Pentagon,

[121:37] they're not expecting any miracles.

[121:41] For the Iraq study group, coming up with

[121:44] a winning strategy is a chicken or egg

[121:46] proposition. Which comes first? Is more

[121:49] stability needed to allow for fewer US

[121:51] troops, or would fewer US troops force

[121:54] Iraq to create more stability? Every

[121:57] course of action has a high degree of

[121:59] risk and is not guaranteed to succeed.

[122:01] But I think that there has to be a

[122:03] process that will force the Iraqis to

[122:06] make the difficult decisions they've so

[122:08] far refrained from making. A draft

[122:11] proposal now being debated by the Iraq

[122:13] study group reportedly frames the

[122:15] argument around the wisdom of a phased

[122:17] withdrawal as well as engaging Iran and

[122:20] Syria in direct talks. The problem is US

[122:23] commanders including top commander

[122:25] General John Abzade have already

[122:27] rejected the idea of either adding a lot

[122:29] more American troops or any precipitous

[122:32] pull out. So any radical shift in

[122:35] strategy risks running roughshot over

[122:37] the best advice of the US military. I

[122:40] think we're setting up an incredible

[122:42] clash between the senior uniform

[122:44] military and our civilian community.

[122:48] >> To avoid that, many observers believe

[122:49] the study group will advocate a gradual

[122:51] pull out not linked to any firm

[122:53] timetable along with increased training

[122:55] for Iraqi forces. That option is also

[122:58] favored by America's closest ally, Great

[123:01] Britain, which is anxiously eyeing the

[123:03] door. But I can tell you that by the end

[123:05] of next year, I expect numbers of

[123:08] British forces in Iraq to be

[123:09] significantly lower by a matter of

[123:11] thousands. Like the US, Britain says

[123:14] future troop reductions would be

[123:15] conditions permitting. Still, the

[123:17] coalition is slowly shrinking. Poland is

[123:20] withdrawing its 1,000 troops next year.

[123:22] Italy's 1400 will be out this year, and

[123:25] Ukraine, the Netherlands, and Spain have

[123:27] already left. That will leave South

[123:29] Korea and Australia as the only

[123:31] countries besides the US and Great

[123:33] Britain with more than a thousand troops

[123:35] in Iraq. A total of 13,000 troops from

[123:38] 26 countries, down from more than 20,000

[123:41] a year ago. Now, the Iraq Study Group is

[123:44] meeting this week in Washington. Its

[123:46] deliberations are shrouded in secrecy,

[123:48] but whatever it comes up with, it is

[123:50] expect to present to the outgoing

[123:53] Congress before it leaves on its holiday

[123:55] recess early next month. Blue.

[123:58] >> Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie

[123:59] McIntyre from the Pentagon. Insurgents

[124:02] in Iraq have killed eight more of our

[124:04] troops. Four were killed in Baghdad. The

[124:06] others were killed in operations

[124:08] elsewhere in Iraq. 61 of our troops have

[124:10] now been killed in Iraq. So far this

[124:12] month, 2,881

[124:15] of our troops have been killed since

[124:16] this war began. 21,78

[124:20] of our troops wounded. 9,977

[124:24] of them so seriously they could not

[124:26] return to duty. A US Air Force F-16

[124:29] fighter aircraft today crashed near the

[124:31] city of Fallujah west of Baghdad. One

[124:34] pilot was aboard. The military did not

[124:36] say whether the pilot survived the crash

[124:37] or whether the crash was caused by enemy

[124:40] fire. More than 100 Iraqis are being

[124:43] killed in Iraq now each and every day.

[124:46] Many of those Iraqis are victims of

[124:48] terrorists who appear determined to push

[124:49] Iraq even closer to full-scale civil

[124:52] war. Arwa Damon reports now from

[124:54] Baghdad. Arwa

[124:57] Lou, the US and Iraqi governments

[124:59] continue to insist that Iraq is not in a

[125:02] civil war, but most Iraqis here look at

[125:04] the bloodshed around them and say that

[125:07] the civil war started a long time ago.

[125:11] In the religiously charged atmosphere of

[125:14] Bakuba, blindfolded and handcuffed

[125:17] bodies contorted in death arrive at the

[125:19] morg. After Thursday's attack in Sutter

[125:22] City that killed at least 200 Shia, the

[125:25] government imposed a 3-day curfew in

[125:27] Baghdad, keeping the body count

[125:30] relatively low. But there was no curfew

[125:33] in Bakuba, and the slaughter went on.

[125:37] >> Why? Why, this woman shouts.

[125:43] The Sutter City bombing, the single

[125:45] deadliest sectarian attack of the war,

[125:48] enraged Shia militias and sent the

[125:50] sectarian bloodletting to a whole new

[125:53] level.

[125:54] As one man told us, "Out here, it's now

[125:58] each man for himself." Sunni websites

[126:01] urge their so-called brothers to carry

[126:03] weapons and share details about attacks

[126:06] in their neighborhoods. Fact or fiction,

[126:09] the internet traffic is fueling fear,

[126:11] hatred, and encouraging violence.

[126:15] And this video posted on an extremist

[126:17] jihadi website shows a new level of

[126:20] brutality. The Mujahedin army from

[126:22] Adamia, a Sunni neighborhood, prepare to

[126:25] behead this man whom they claim is with

[126:27] the Shia Mahu militia. The killing

[126:30] moments later takes place as people

[126:32] record images.

[126:37] >> And throughout Iraq, the agony of loss.

[126:40] The failures of the government now

[126:42] painfully obvious as the country comes

[126:44] even closer to fullscale civil war. Arwa

[126:48] Damon, CNN.

[126:52] The Iraqi government of Prime Minister

[126:54] Nuri al- Malaki is incapable of stopping

[126:57] the escalating sectarian violence. One

[127:00] reason may be the close ties between

[127:02] Alaki's government and radical Islamist

[127:04] led by the anti-American cleric Mkta

[127:07] also. Michael Wear in Baghdad with our

[127:10] report. Michael, is the Iraqi government

[127:12] powerless? Is anyone paying any

[127:14] attention to the Iraqi prime minister?

[127:19] Well, Lou, the first question really is

[127:21] there an Iraqi government at all? Beyond

[127:24] the office of Prime Minister Noral

[127:26] Maliki and his national security

[127:28] adviser, this government is more an

[127:31] alignment of Shia militias than it is

[127:34] any kind of effective administration.

[127:37] Many of the elements within the

[127:39] ministries dominated by these militias

[127:41] take their cues not from a relatively

[127:44] powerless prime minister who himself

[127:47] does not have men at arms, the currency

[127:50] of political power in Iraq, but they

[127:52] take those cues from their militia

[127:54] leaders and their political party

[127:57] leaders. Many of them according to US

[127:59] and British intelligence backed by

[128:02] Iranian revolutionary guard coulds force

[128:05] or specialist intelligence officers. So

[128:09] whether anyone's following the

[128:11] directives of the prime minister really

[128:14] is not that much in question. Maliki is

[128:17] trying to make an imprint on the

[128:20] violence here and on the militias, the

[128:22] fundamental building blocks of this

[128:25] government. Yet, as you can tell, with

[128:27] the escalating bloodshed, there is very,

[128:30] very real limits to what power he has.

[128:33] Louie,

[128:35] >> Michael Wear from Baghdad. The White

[128:37] House today admitted the violence in

[128:39] Iraq has entered what it described as a

[128:41] quote new phase. But the White House

[128:43] stopped short of calling this conflict

[128:44] civil war. President Bush today arrived

[128:47] in Estonia. He will be there for one

[128:49] day. He then travels to Latvia for a

[128:51] NATO summit. Later in the week, the

[128:54] president will go to Jordan there to

[128:55] meet with Iraqi Prime Minister Al

[128:58] Maliki. Suzan Malvo reports now from the

[129:01] Estonian capital of Talon. Suzan

[129:06] >> Well, President Bush has arrived in

[129:07] Talin, Estonia. It's his first stop in

[129:10] this highstakes diplomatic offensive. Of

[129:12] course, his next stop is going to be Ria

[129:14] Latia for the NATO summit. But all eyes

[129:16] on that critically important meeting

[129:18] between President Bush and Iraqi Prime

[129:20] Minister Nuri al- Maliki. It'll take

[129:22] place Thursday in Aman, Jordan. And

[129:24] already the national security adviser

[129:26] Steven Hadley aboard Air Force One

[129:28] giving a preview of this discussion of

[129:30] these meetings. He said first the two

[129:32] leaders would discuss the

[129:34] appropriateness whether or not the

[129:36] United States should reach out to its

[129:37] nemesis Iran in discussing the situation

[129:40] in Iraq. Hadley saying he believed that

[129:43] Maliki felt that Iraq should be the one

[129:45] to have those direct talks with Iran and

[129:48] Syria and take the lead on that matter.

[129:50] Secondly, Hadley described the situation

[129:53] in Iraq as entering a new phase when it

[129:56] comes to violence, but he denied that it

[129:58] was a civil war. And third, he said

[130:00] there would be no discussion about US

[130:02] troop levels between the two leaders

[130:04] when they meet, but rather how to build

[130:07] up those Iraqi security forces. And as

[130:09] you know, the credibility, the legacies

[130:12] of both these men is on the line. There

[130:14] is much at stake and that is why Bush

[130:16] administration officials setting the bar

[130:18] very low for these discussions in case

[130:20] things get much worse in Iraq before

[130:22] they get better. Lou

[130:24] >> Son Mavo from Talin, Estonia. Now for

[130:28] tonight's poll, the question, do you

[130:29] believe it matters whether the news

[130:31] media refers to the Iraqi conflict as

[130:33] insurgency, sectarian violence, or civil

[130:37] war? Yes or no? Please cast your vote at

[130:39] leives.com. We'll have the results here

[130:41] later. Coming up next, our panel of

[130:43] highranking former military leaders join

[130:45] us to discuss what the United States

[130:47] should do next in Iraq and what the

[130:49] options might be. Also ahead, the

[130:51] company that built part of a border

[130:53] fence along uh the Mexican border is

[130:55] under investigation tonight. That's

[130:58] right, for hiring illegal aliens. We'll

[131:00] have that report. Leftist governments

[131:02] again on the march in Latin America and

[131:04] the anti-US sentiment being blamed for

[131:06] the shift. What is the US policy in this

[131:08] hemisphere, if any? We'll have that

[131:11] report. and Russian a Russian journalist

[131:13] murdered. A Russian spy poisoned in

[131:15] London and CEOs sent off to Siberia.

[131:19] Fingers being pointed at Russia's

[131:20] president. Two of this country's top

[131:22] experts on Russia join us. One from

[131:24] Moscow, the other from Massachusetts.

[131:26] Stay with us.

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[133:59] >> The company that built a section of

[134:01] fence along our border with Mexico is

[134:03] tonight under investigation for hiring

[134:06] illegal aliens and communities across

[134:08] the country fighting an influx of

[134:10] illegal aliens find themselves targets

[134:12] of wellorganized well-funded open

[134:15] borders groups. Casey Wine reports

[134:17] tonight on the Fence Building Company

[134:20] and their investigation for hiring

[134:21] illegal aliens. Bill Tucker reports

[134:23] tonight on cities with illegal

[134:25] immigration statues facing legal

[134:27] challenges by wellfunded activist

[134:29] groups. We begin with Casey Wine in Los

[134:31] Angeles. Casey

[134:33] >> Lou, a Southern California fence company

[134:35] is under criminal investigation tonight

[134:37] for repeatedly hiring illegal aliens.

[134:40] Incredibly, the company built part of

[134:42] the US border fence with Mexico.

[134:46] The Golden State Fence Company builds

[134:48] fences for homes, military bases, even a

[134:51] portion of the fence guarding the US

[134:53] Mexico border east of San Diego. The

[134:56] project was completed in 1998. Since

[134:58] then, federal authorities say Golden

[135:00] State has been busted three times for

[135:02] hiring illegal aliens, and it's the

[135:04] target of an ongoing criminal

[135:06] investigation. Golden State Fence would

[135:08] not discuss the investigation, but says

[135:11] it has taken a number of steps to ensure

[135:12] that its employees are legal residents,

[135:15] including voluntary participation in

[135:17] ISIS's employment verification system

[135:19] since December. While there is no

[135:21] evidence Golden State used illegal

[135:23] aliens to build the border fence, some

[135:25] say it's a good idea. Don Goldwater ran

[135:28] for Arizona governor this year and

[135:30] received about 40% of the Republican

[135:32] primary vote. He proposed using criminal

[135:35] illegal aliens and other inmate labor to

[135:37] build a border barrier.

[135:38] >> What we had proposed uh during the

[135:40] campaign was to set up a tent city uh

[135:43] down on the border because it's a

[135:45] temporary uh correctional facility and

[135:48] then to use inmate labor down on the

[135:50] border to build the wall, clean up the

[135:52] desert, and fix the ranches that the

[135:54] illegals were tearing up. The Golden

[135:56] State Fence investigation grew out of

[135:58] Operation Safe Cities, a San Diego

[136:00] Immigration and Customs Enforcement

[136:02] crackdown on illegal aliens working at

[136:04] facilities critical to national

[136:06] security. In less than 3 years, ICE has

[136:09] found 870 illegal aliens employed at

[136:12] military bases, the San Diego airport,

[136:15] even the Sanopre nuclear power plant. In

[136:18] fact, 2 and a half% of the nearly 35,000

[136:21] employees checked so far were illegally

[136:23] in the United States.

[136:25] An Immigration and Customs Enforcement

[136:27] spokeswoman says the agency hopes

[136:29] federal charges will be filed against

[136:32] Golden State Fence for violating

[136:34] employment laws. Lou,

[136:35] >> the irony doesn't get much greater than

[136:37] that, does it, Casey?

[136:38] >> It sure doesn't, Lou.

[136:40] >> All right, thank you. Cities and towns

[136:42] that have passed measures aimed at

[136:44] cracking down on illegal immigration are

[136:46] facing big challenges, bigger than many

[136:49] realized at first. Wellunded groups such

[136:51] as the American Civil Liberties Union

[136:53] are challenging those measures in court,

[136:55] forcing small towns to find ways in

[136:57] which to raise money to fight those

[137:00] challenges by activist groups. Bill

[137:02] Tucker reports.

[137:05] Officials from cities in Escanido,

[137:07] California, Farmers Branch, Texas,

[137:09] Riverside, New Jersey, and Hazelton,

[137:12] Pennsylvania, all say the cost of

[137:14] illegal immigration are overwhelming

[137:16] their budgets. But their efforts to

[137:18] crack down on illegal immigration are

[137:20] creating large legal problems. Richly

[137:22] endowed groups like the American Civil

[137:24] Liberties Union are taking the cities to

[137:26] court, challenging the ordinances that

[137:28] those cities and others like them are

[137:30] approving. It's become a fight of the

[137:32] Davids versus the Goliaths.

[137:34] >> Unfortunately, the cost of attorney's

[137:37] fees can be very substantial,

[137:39] particularly if the case goes to trial.

[137:41] I think it's very reasonable to assume a

[137:43] minimum of $100,000.

[137:46] and uh likely as much as $2 or $3

[137:49] million.

[137:50] >> The three groups most active in

[137:52] challenging the city's laws are the

[137:54] ACLU, the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and

[137:57] Education Fund, and the Mexican-American

[137:59] Legal Defense and Educational Fund. The

[138:02] combined assets of those groups, $270

[138:05] million, with undisclosed proono legal

[138:08] help available from member law firms.

[138:11] And while the towns have to answer to

[138:12] taxpayers, those groups have to answer

[138:15] to donors who usually remain anonymous.

[138:18] And there is a financial incentive for

[138:20] these groups to challenge the laws. Win

[138:22] or lose, their legal fees are usually

[138:24] included in the settlement.

[138:26] >> They threatened that a lawsuit uh

[138:28] involving the city of Hazelton that they

[138:30] would bankrupt us, thinking that we

[138:32] would roll over and and back off. We

[138:34] really don't have a choice. Hazelton's

[138:36] collected $50,000 through individual

[138:38] contributions to help defer its legal

[138:41] cost, mostly in checks for $10 and $20.

[138:44] The largest single donor to date is the

[138:46] owner of Gino's Cheese Stakes in

[138:48] Philadelphia. He donated $10,000.

[138:52] The city of Escanido, California, has

[138:54] set up a similar program to solicit

[138:56] funds. Tonight, officials of the village

[138:59] of Mamarin, New York are meeting to

[139:01] decide whether they will continue to

[139:03] fight their own legal battle to crack

[139:04] down on illegal aliens. One of the major

[139:07] factors in determining whether they

[139:08] fight on Lou legal cost involved with

[139:11] carrying on the case.

[139:12] >> Well, I think we can say here

[139:14] unequivocally where two sources of that

[139:17] uh money to those activist groups that

[139:19] are fighting these small communities

[139:21] comes from. uh two sources, one is the

[139:24] federal government and the other is

[139:26] corporate America. We can say that

[139:27] unequivocally. Uh and should Bill, thank

[139:31] you very much, Bill Tucker. Coming up

[139:34] next here, the United States is helping

[139:35] communist China, a totalitarian state,

[139:38] train its police. How about that?

[139:40] Democracy at work. And uh we'll have

[139:43] that story. And we'll have the story of

[139:46] Ecuador's leftist presidential candidate

[139:48] basking in the in the glory of victory.

[139:51] And that may give another boost to a

[139:53] leftist running for reelection elsewhere

[139:55] in Latin America. We'll tie all of that

[139:56] together. And as the situation in Iraq

[139:59] is rapidly worsening, we'll hear from

[140:01] our panel of highlevel former military

[140:04] commanders on what the United States

[140:05] should do now in Iraq. And is this

[140:08] Putin's new Russia? Journalists murdered

[140:10] a Russian spy assassinated in London.

[140:14] and we'll have that story. We'll be

[140:15] talking with two of the country's top

[140:16] experts on Russia. David Sat of the

[140:19] Hudson Institute joins us from Moscow.

[140:22] Marshall Goldman, the Davis Professor of

[140:24] Russian Economics at Welssley joins us

[140:26] from Boston. Stay with us for all of

[140:28] that, all the today's news, a great deal

[140:30] more straight ahead.

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[142:27] Former President Jimmy Carter on Iraq,

[142:30] bloodshed, and more. Larry King tonight.

[142:34] >> A great democracy helping out a

[142:35] totalitarian state. The United States

[142:37] consulting with Communist China on

[142:39] security and anti-terrorist matters.

[142:42] Critics, however, say the Chinese police

[142:44] may be learning advanced law enforcement

[142:46] techniques that could help the communist

[142:48] regime become an even stronger police

[142:51] state. Kitty Pilgrim reports.

[142:55] Beijing is gearing up for their Olympics

[142:57] in 2008 and is worried about security.

[143:00] The US is only happy to help. In meeting

[143:03] after meeting, top Chinese officials

[143:04] have met with top US security officials,

[143:07] including Department of Homeland

[143:09] Security Secretary Michael Churoff. The

[143:11] Chinese embassy website boasts meeting

[143:13] with the US Attorney General Alberto

[143:15] Gonzalez and signing a joint statement

[143:18] further strengthening law enforcement

[143:20] cooperation last July. The latest

[143:22] program has been to train China's police

[143:24] for the 2008 summer Olympics. We have

[143:27] also been training their air marshals

[143:29] before that. But also in general, we

[143:32] have been doing more garden variety

[143:34] training. So the training is is from the

[143:36] most sophisticated to the most ordinary.

[143:39] >> Many China scholars are concerned that

[143:41] US officials may unintentionally enhance

[143:44] China's ability as a police state by

[143:46] consulting on issues such as crowd

[143:48] control. The violent Tianaan Square

[143:51] police crackdown displayed how brutal

[143:53] China's security forces can be. And

[143:55] today, China is a tinderbox of rural

[143:58] unrest. Some 40,000 demonstrations took

[144:01] place in China in the first half of this

[144:03] year alone over unemployment, housing,

[144:06] and the environment. Some of those

[144:08] demonstrations were brutally suppressed.

[144:10] China critics say the training has dual

[144:13] use. The excuse is that they need to

[144:16] establish crowd control to be able to

[144:18] maintain an efficient police force to

[144:21] prevent any sort of instability, any

[144:23] sort of uprisings during the Olympics.

[144:25] But in reality, uh you know, there's no

[144:26] doubt that these techniques will be used

[144:28] to quell a number of their rural

[144:30] protests, which is which is their main

[144:32] concern. The US policy on China is

[144:34] inconsistent and contradictory. The US

[144:37] Commerce Department restricts any

[144:39] exports that are exclusively used for

[144:41] law enforcement because they could

[144:43] enhance the Chinese police state. Yet,

[144:45] the Justice Department and US law

[144:47] enforcement agencies consult and train

[144:50] Chinese security forces. Now, the US

[144:53] Justice Department has not returned

[144:55] repeated calls to ask them how to

[144:57] comment on how extensive this joint

[144:59] cooperation is. And the real question is

[145:01] how this USChina cooperation can be

[145:03] allowed when there are other

[145:04] restrictions on exporting goods that

[145:06] would help law enforcement in China.

[145:08] Lou,

[145:09] >> it is a night for some irony in terms of

[145:12] US policy. Thank you very much, Kitty

[145:14] Pilgrim. Time now for some of your

[145:16] thoughts. Uh Brian in Florida said, "If

[145:19] the new Congress agrees on an

[145:21] immigration reform bill with a guest

[145:22] worker amnesty program, it will not be a

[145:24] reform. Instead, it will be a disaster

[145:26] for working Americans." and Sandra in

[145:29] New York. Lou, America used to be a can

[145:31] do nation. Now it seems we're a nation

[145:34] of we can't do anything. Build our 700

[145:37] mile fence that was passed into law. No

[145:39] excuses. Become a nation of can do

[145:42] again? And Dan in Washington. Blue. Are

[145:45] the officers in New York City going to

[145:47] go scot-free for shooting dead the newly

[145:49] wed to be, while the border patrol

[145:51] officers who shot the drug peddler who

[145:53] is still alive will be spending a big

[145:56] part of their lives in prison. Send us

[145:59] your thoughts to ludams.com. We'll have

[146:00] more of your thoughts later here. Each

[146:02] of you whose email is read here receives

[146:04] a copy of my new book, War on the Middle

[146:06] Class. Up next, a shift to the left in

[146:08] Latin America. We'll have a special

[146:10] report on what that means for the United

[146:12] States. Also, the mysterious

[146:13] assassination of a former Russian spy.

[146:15] I'll be talking with two ops experts on

[146:17] Russia. David Saturn in Moscow, Marshall

[146:20] Goldman in Massachusetts. All of that

[146:21] and more straight ahead.

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[148:32] >> Tonight's top stories. Insurgents in

[148:34] Iraq have killed eight more of our

[148:35] troops. The White House admits the

[148:37] violence in Iraq has entered what it

[148:38] calls a new phase as sectarian killings

[148:41] escalate. Three former military leaders

[148:43] join us here later to discuss future US

[148:46] strategy in Iraq. Also, President Bush

[148:48] arriving at Estonia for the first of a

[148:50] series of high level talks about the

[148:52] conduct of the wars on Iraq and

[148:54] Afghanistan. The president to meet with

[148:56] the Iraqi Prime Minister Nur al- Maliki

[148:59] in Jordan later this week. A company

[149:01] that built part of a fence along our

[149:03] southern border with Mexico to keep

[149:05] illegal aliens out of the country under

[149:07] investigation tonight for repeatedly

[149:09] hiring, you guessed it, illegal aliens.

[149:12] Other important stories tonight in

[149:14] Missouri, a fire that killed 10 and

[149:16] injured 24 at a group home for the

[149:18] mentally ill and elderly is being called

[149:20] suspicious. The outer walls, all that is

[149:23] left of the Anderson guest house. There

[149:26] were 32 residents, two employees inside

[149:28] when that fire gutted the structure.

[149:30] Police say today's fire may be related

[149:32] to a smaller one that broke out in the

[149:34] home Saturday. Out west, a potent

[149:36] Pacific storm blanketing much of the

[149:38] region with snow. In Washington state,

[149:41] snowstorms and gusty winds battering

[149:43] travelers. Traffic slowed to a crawl on

[149:46] most major highways. There were dozens

[149:48] of accidents because, as one state

[149:50] trooper put it, people simply could not

[149:52] see. And the heavy snow extending to

[149:55] Lake Tahoe in Northern California,

[149:57] accumulations of a foot or more reported

[149:59] at higher elevations. The 2006 hurricane

[150:02] season is officially over this Thursday.

[150:05] It's been a surprisingly mild one. About

[150:08] uh after two brutal seasons, only nine

[150:10] named storms formed up this year. Five

[150:13] actually did become hurricanes. None,

[150:15] however, hit the United States. The news

[150:17] isn't all good. Experts say we can

[150:19] expect to see uh more decades of

[150:22] heightened hurricane activity. And

[150:24] confirmation tonight is something many

[150:26] of us suspect. A new study indicates

[150:29] that nine out of 10 emails are now spam.

[150:32] Uh, Postini, the US email security

[150:34] company says the amount of spam has

[150:36] tripled since just June. The firm says

[150:39] criminal charges are responsible for the

[150:41] surge in unwanted email, mainly peddling

[150:44] sex, drugs, and stock tips. There's a

[150:47] new leftist leader in Latin America

[150:49] tonight, Ecuador's Raphael Korea. Early

[150:52] in his presidential race, Korea called

[150:54] President Bush dimwitted and tonight

[150:57] vows to scale back cooperation with the

[150:59] United States in the war on drugs. Just

[151:02] the latest turn to the left in Latin

[151:04] America. Christine Romans reports.

[151:08] >> In Ecuador, Raphael Korea sweeps to

[151:11] power. He has called President Bush

[151:13] dim-witted and promised not to renew US

[151:15] access to a military base for anti-drug

[151:18] operations. He's a protege of Venezuelan

[151:20] President Hugo Chavez, himself running

[151:23] for reelection.

[151:26] >> We are going to defeat the most powerful

[151:28] empire on Earth. concerned the United

[151:30] States is losing its influence in a

[151:32] region that benefited from $1.8 billion

[151:35] dollar last year in aid from US

[151:37] taxpayers and enjoys so far this year an

[151:40] 84 billion trade surplus.

[151:42] >> The United States clearly needs to

[151:44] strongly engage uh in the region

[151:47] especially in the Andian region where

[151:48] populism and ultraism is running is

[151:52] running strong. the view today at the

[151:54] State Department.

[151:55] >> We're open to working with dulyeleed

[151:59] government governments in the region

[152:01] that govern democratically uh regardless

[152:04] of where they where they come from along

[152:06] the political spectrum.

[152:08] >> He says the US is working with Bolivia,

[152:10] for example, despite its new president's

[152:12] anti-American rhetoric on the campaign

[152:14] trail. And under secretary of state

[152:16] Nicholas Burns says Chavez influence is

[152:19] waning, highlighting what he calls

[152:21] responsible left of center or centrist

[152:23] candidates winning in Chile, Brazil,

[152:26] Peru, Colombia, Haiti, Costa Rica, and

[152:28] Mexico. But Mexico is no model of

[152:31] stability. In Wajaka this weekend,

[152:33] homemade rockets rained. Leftist

[152:35] protesters hurled rocks, fireworks, and

[152:38] gas bombs at federal police. Meanwhile,

[152:40] failed presidential candidate Lopez Odor

[152:43] has vowed to lead a shadow government.

[152:45] The more moderate Felipe Calderon faces

[152:48] an ongoing challenge from Oberdor's

[152:50] supporters. And in Nicaragua earlier

[152:52] this month, former Sandinista Daniel

[152:54] Ortega in a presidential victory

[152:56] procession through the streets of

[152:58] Managa.

[153:00] Perhaps the most visible example, many

[153:02] say of the decline of US influence in

[153:04] its own backyard. The State Department

[153:06] says 2007 will be a year for the United

[153:09] States Lou to focus on invigorating

[153:12] Latin America.

[153:13] >> So that's the timetable. They've taken

[153:16] notice at the uh State Department and

[153:18] they're going to pay a lot of attention

[153:20] next year. That's that's reassuring.

[153:22] Christine, thanks Christine Robbins.

[153:24] Coming up next, the violence in Iraq at

[153:26] its worst levels since the war began.

[153:28] We'll be joined here by three

[153:30] distinguished former military

[153:31] commanders. We'll be exploring the

[153:33] options for the US now and shades of a

[153:37] former Soviet Union. Journalists

[153:39] murdered a former spy poison and

[153:41] Russia's president implicated. Two of

[153:44] the country's top experts on Russia join

[153:46] us. David Satder of the Hudson Institute

[153:48] joining us from Moscow. Marshall

[153:50] Goldman, professor of Russian economics

[153:52] at Welssley joins us from Boston. Stay

[153:55] with us for that and a lot more still

[153:57] ahead.

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[156:20] British authorities have now discovered

[156:22] a number of new sites with traces of the

[156:25] radioactive material that killed a

[156:27] former Russian spy in London. Alexander

[156:30] Lit Vanenko died last week as a result

[156:33] of poisoning by plonium 210. It is a

[156:37] rare radioactive element usually

[156:39] manufactured in special nuclear

[156:40] facilities. Three other people are now

[156:43] being tested for possible exposure to

[156:45] palonium 210. And joining me now to

[156:48] discuss the implication of this uh

[156:50] implications of this case, two leading

[156:52] authorities on Russia, David Saturn of

[156:55] the Hudson Institute joins us tonight

[156:57] from Moscow, his me most recent book,

[157:00] Darkness at Dawn, the rise of the

[157:02] Russian criminal state. And from

[157:04] Massachusetts tonight, Marshall Goldman,

[157:06] professor of Russian economics at

[157:07] Welssley. Good to have you both here. Uh

[157:10] David Sat, let me begin with you. Uh the

[157:14] the obvious uh death of Lit Benoa being

[157:19] uh assigned to Russian President Putin

[157:22] is first of all highly unusual. What are

[157:24] the implications first because he is a

[157:26] British citizen for the UK Russian

[157:29] relationship?

[157:33] Well, I think that something has

[157:34] happened that uh if it's confirmed that

[157:37] the Russian uh intelligence services

[157:40] were involved, literally forces Britain

[157:44] to downgrade its relationship with

[157:46] Russia. And I believe that in so far as

[157:48] Britain is our closest ally, it forces

[157:50] us pretty much to do the same. They've

[157:54] really outdone themselves this time. And

[157:57] uh if in fact it's confirmed that the

[157:59] Russian secret services were behind this

[158:01] murder, which is a very s sadistic

[158:03] murder, then the west simply must react.

[158:08] >> And you think react on moral grounds.

[158:10] Correct.

[158:12] >> Exactly. Exactly. as a matter of

[158:15] principle and disregarding any any other

[158:18] calculations because in fact in the long

[158:21] run that's the only thing that can

[158:23] establish a better relationship with

[158:25] Russia and curtail this kind of

[158:27] behavior. Uh, Professor Gman, let me ask

[158:30] you this. The the US relationship uh at

[158:33] this point, the US government has been

[158:35] very constrained. Uh, what do you think

[158:38] the uh where we where are we uh and

[158:41] where will we be going forward? Uh, if

[158:43] indeed it is confirmed uh that the

[158:46] Russian state in any form had anything

[158:48] to do with this assassination,

[158:50] >> it's going to be very difficult to do

[158:51] much of anything. Russia is too

[158:53] important right now. Uh, we need them to

[158:56] help us with Iran. We need them to help

[158:58] us with Iraq. We need them to help us

[158:59] with North Korea. And more importantly,

[159:02] the Russians have become a major

[159:03] supplier now of energy, particularly

[159:06] natural gas, even to Great Britain. Uh

[159:09] as the North Sea deposits are depleted,

[159:12] uh the Russians are talking now about

[159:14] selling more and more natural gas to

[159:15] Great Britain. And it's going to be very

[159:17] hard for them to say, "We don't want to

[159:18] have anything uh to do with you." So,

[159:21] Russia now is in a very strong position,

[159:23] and it's going to be very hard just

[159:24] simply to say, "You did bad things. uh

[159:26] go away. We don't want to talk to you

[159:28] anymore.

[159:29] >> So the influence of uh oil and natural

[159:32] gas deposits within Russia uh will

[159:35] extend as do those deposits in the

[159:37] Middle East to influence uh western

[159:40] policy in your judgment?

[159:41] >> Absolutely. I mean you know in case of

[159:44] Germany for example Russia supplies 40%

[159:47] of the gas that Germany imports. For

[159:49] Europe as a whole it's over a quarter.

[159:51] Even for that matter, we are now in in

[159:53] the United States beginning to import

[159:55] petroleum and soon the Russians say

[159:57] they'll be selling us natural gas as

[159:59] well in the form of LNG. Uh David Ser uh

[160:04] professor Gleman says that there are

[160:07] there's real politic at work here. Uh

[160:09] that in effect um Europe certainly is

[160:13] held in some ways captive by its

[160:16] dependency on Russia for energy

[160:18] resources. uh you're talking about moral

[160:20] and principal grounds. Um is there any

[160:25] uh in your judgment uh uh room here to

[160:28] say uh we're going to have to exceed as

[160:31] a matter of real politic to the fact

[160:34] that all of Europe is virtually

[160:36] dependent on Russia for energy?

[160:40] >> Well, I I really don't think that there

[160:42] is I disagree with Marshall on on on

[160:45] this issue. For one thing, Russia needs

[160:47] the income for the from the sale of oil

[160:49] and gas as much as we need the energy.

[160:52] For another, there are a whole range of

[160:56] measures that the United States and

[160:57] Britain can take which have important

[160:59] symbolic value. For example, excluding

[161:02] Russia from the G8 or downgrading a

[161:04] whole series of relationships uh in

[161:08] which we're involved with Russia that

[161:10] would serve as apt uh punishment in

[161:13] effect for this type of behavior. It's

[161:16] very important to bear in mind that

[161:18] although we've mortgaged our our our

[161:21] right to criticize what goes on in

[161:23] Russia in the hope that we'll get help

[161:26] from Russia on issues like Iran and

[161:28] North Korea. It's the very sign it's the

[161:31] very state of Russian society, the

[161:34] criminalization of Russian society,

[161:36] which is the root reason why we're not

[161:38] going to get that support on uh from

[161:41] Russia that we need on issues like Iran

[161:43] and North Korea. The fact is that the

[161:46] present Russian leadership is

[161:47] comfortable with regimes like the regime

[161:49] in Iran and North Korea.

[161:51] >> Do you agree with that, Marshall Golden?

[161:52] >> Well, not entirely. I I agree with David

[161:55] completely that it's unfortunate that

[161:57] the Russians are doing these things uh

[161:59] and we should stand up and speak out,

[162:01] but I just don't think it's realistic

[162:02] for the Europeans, for example. Already

[162:04] they're beginning to pull their punches

[162:06] if you look at what the Germans are

[162:07] saying about conditions in Poland and

[162:10] elsewhere. So I I agree with that David

[162:12] in principle is right, but I'm afraid

[162:13] real politic as you say is going to

[162:15] force us to do something else.

[162:17] >> The uh the issue of proportionality uh

[162:20] which seemingly been lost every time uh

[162:24] u energy I'll leave it I'll restrict it

[162:27] simply to energy needs of western powers

[162:29] comes into being. Proportionality seems

[162:32] to have uh dissipated. Is there a

[162:35] proportionate response on the part of

[162:37] the British government? Again, we have

[162:39] no facts to uh uh to confirm uh

[162:43] unequivocally that this was a uh carried

[162:46] out by the Russian secret service or uh

[162:49] uh any other part of the state. But is

[162:52] there a proportionality issue here just

[162:54] as there is in the Middle East uh that

[162:56] could be followed by both the British

[162:58] government uh European powers as well as

[163:00] the United States?

[163:02] Well, I think there's some certainly

[163:04] there there will be some things we can

[163:06] do, but in terms of the overall impact,

[163:08] I don't think it's going to really lead

[163:10] to a basic change in policy. We'll be

[163:13] slapping their hands, but I don't think

[163:14] we'll be undercutting their their

[163:16] existence. And I think this given the

[163:18] fact that Putin is putting in place um

[163:21] uh many of his colleagues from the KGB,

[163:23] it's really not a very healthy

[163:25] environment.

[163:26] David Ser as you pointed out uh those

[163:29] colleagues uh and uh uh members former

[163:32] members of the KGB in particular that he

[163:34] has put into power throughout the

[163:36] security council and a large uh part of

[163:38] the national security apparatus of

[163:40] Russia. What does this spell to you in

[163:42] terms of the future of the relationship

[163:44] between Russia, Western Europe and the

[163:46] United States? If we can ask you to give

[163:47] us your answer in relatively quick

[163:49] order.

[163:52] Well, I think that this there's a

[163:54] specific mentality that's associated

[163:56] with the KGB and that mentality is

[163:58] amoral and I think we're seeing signs of

[164:00] that right now. Uh the the Pikovsky a

[164:04] murder was followed up uh with the

[164:07] murder of uh of Alexander Litanenko at a

[164:10] time when the world was still outraged

[164:12] over the killing of Pikovsky.

[164:14] >> That should tell you something.

[164:16] Unfortunately, the suggestions are

[164:18] ominous and we thank you both uh for

[164:20] being with us tonight uh to assess what

[164:23] is going on between Russia uh Europe and

[164:26] the United States. Thank you both

[164:28] Marshall Marshall Goldman in uh Welsley

[164:32] and David Sat in Moscow tonight. I know

[164:34] it's very late for you there and we

[164:36] appreciate you staying up to talk with

[164:37] us. Thank you.

[164:39] Coming up next, we'll be talking with a

[164:40] panel of distinguished former military

[164:42] leaders as the Vi Islands and Iraq has

[164:44] reached new heights. We'll be discussing

[164:47] what options are available to the United

[164:49] States in Iraq. Stay with us.

[164:54] >> Larry King tonight. Former President

[164:55] Jimmy Carter. He helped broker M East

[164:58] peace. Now he sheds light on Iraq and

[165:00] more. Larry King tonight 9 Eastern, only

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[166:33] Heat. Heat.

[167:05] Anderson Cooper live from Turkey tonight

[167:08] 10 Eastern.

[167:11] Our troops in Iraq tonight are

[167:13] struggling to stop escalating sectarian

[167:15] violence. Politicians in Washington

[167:18] divided over US strategy in Iraq. Many

[167:20] calling for a timetable now for

[167:22] withdrawal. Some however saying the

[167:23] United States should raise the number of

[167:25] troops in Iraq, particularly Senator

[167:27] John McCain. Joining me tonight, three

[167:29] of the country's most distinguished

[167:31] military analysts, all decorated combat

[167:33] veterans, Major General Paul Eaton,

[167:35] responsible for training Iraq security

[167:37] forces in 2003 and 2004. General, good

[167:40] to have you with us. Lieutenant General

[167:42] Bernard Trainer, author of Cobra 2, one

[167:44] of the most authoritative accounts of

[167:46] this war. and Colonel Thomas Hamus

[167:48] served in Iraq two years ago, author of

[167:51] The Sling and the Stone on War in the

[167:53] 21st century. Uh, General, Colonel,

[167:55] thank you very much for being here.

[167:57] General Trainer, let me begin with you.

[167:59] Uh, the White House declines to say that

[168:02] this is a civil war at this point. Uh,

[168:05] UN Secretary General Kofannan uh does as

[168:08] well. Uh, does it matter what we call

[168:10] it?

[168:11] >> Lou, I don't I don't think it really is.

[168:13] It's a semantic game. Whether it's a

[168:15] civil war, whether it's a sectarian war

[168:18] or religious war, the fact is it's a

[168:21] it's a bloody conflict of retribution

[168:23] between the two major factions within

[168:27] Iraq, the Shia and the Sunnis. Senator

[168:29] constitutes civil war or not, I think

[168:31] it's incidental.

[168:32] >> Senator Chuck Hegel, u of course,

[168:34] Congressman John Murtha, both now

[168:37] calling for withdrawal. U General

[168:40] Trainer, should we

[168:41] >> Well, that that that's an option

[168:42] obviously. Uh, but there's the danger

[168:45] that you're jumping out of the frying

[168:47] pan into the fire if you all of a sudden

[168:49] abandon or even abandon Iraq on on some

[168:52] sort of a of a timetable. The president

[168:55] clearly has made it known that he's

[168:57] going to hang tough there and and depend

[168:59] upon the emergence of an effective unity

[169:02] government and most importantly an

[169:05] effective Iraqi military force to take

[169:07] the burden off the Americans and assume

[169:08] the responsibility of a nation state.

[169:11] >> General, is that good enough? Is it

[169:13] time? Uh, as General Trainer put it, uh,

[169:15] the president's hanging tough, but he's

[169:17] also asking 140,000 of our troops to do

[169:20] so. Uh, what what do you think is the

[169:23] smartest thing the United States can do

[169:26] now? And is there anything smart we can

[169:28] do now?

[169:29] >> Lou, there is. If if we're going to

[169:31] admit that uh Iraq is going to remain a

[169:34] state in the in the uh status that it is

[169:36] right now, the one one nation with three

[169:38] major entities, uh we've got to get

[169:40] after the security forces, and we've got

[169:42] to get after it in a far more serious

[169:44] approach, a far more fundamental

[169:46] approach than uh than we've embarked

[169:48] upon yet.

[169:49] >> Define fundamental.

[169:51] uh we we have got to put far more uh US

[169:55] soldiers directly involved with the

[169:57] preparation and the training of the

[169:58] Iraqi security forces. Larger units

[170:01] right now the the 10-man team for

[170:03] battalion is just insufficient. Uh

[170:07] Lieutenant Colonel Doug Olivant has an

[170:09] approach. Uh he is written in military

[170:11] review and that's to put battalions uh

[170:14] integrated into uh Iraqi divisions and

[170:17] brigades. And if we if we get after it

[170:20] in that approach, it's a distribution or

[170:22] a redistribution of American forces with

[170:25] intent to provide security.

[170:27] >> General Ham, do you agree?

[170:28] >> I think if we're going to make any

[170:30] success, we've got to get serious about

[170:31] the security forces. We've also got to

[170:33] get serious about providing our own

[170:34] forces the equipment they need. Uh the

[170:37] administration has made a fundamentally

[170:38] immoral decision to not provide

[170:40] equipment to save money. We need to

[170:42] provide equipment.

[170:43] >> Say that again. They made a decision to

[170:46] not provide equipment for American

[170:48] forces and Iraqi forces. We have

[170:51] equipment backed up at repair depots and

[170:53] repair depots have been told not to work

[170:55] overtime or at least they are not

[170:56] working overtime. So we have young men

[170:58] and women training to go into a fight

[171:00] with no equipment.

[171:01] >> And I just learned today that we have

[171:04] fundraisers going on in this country to

[171:07] provide body armor for our troops. Uh

[171:10] let me the idea that we are sitting here

[171:13] talking about the the geopolitical and

[171:15] military aspects of this war uh at a

[171:19] time we're approaching it's now lasted

[171:21] longer uh than World War II at a time uh

[171:25] when we're approaching four years from

[171:27] the invasion date. U

[171:31] this is in this goes beyond geopolitics

[171:34] and and military strategy at this point.

[171:37] It seems to me this is a question of

[171:39] fundamental competence on the part of

[171:40] the US military. Am I wrong?

[171:42] >> No, I think you're right. I don't see

[171:44] any excuse that we have not if the

[171:46] military can't get the funds for it then

[171:48] they have got to make that known and we

[171:51] have to provide for the troops going

[171:53] into the fight. Uh General Eaton both

[171:55] you General Petraeus highly regarded

[171:57] highly respected officers training

[171:59] Iraqis and in different roles but

[172:01] training those Iraqi uh forces. How is

[172:04] it that we can be at this point where

[172:06] they're not adequately trained?

[172:09] >> Lou, it's a uh it is a fundamental issue

[172:12] with uh the the government of Iraq. The

[172:16] the king of Jordan, King Abdullah has

[172:20] asked his military to put a pin on their

[172:22] uniform, the uh the Jordanian flag with

[172:25] the number one superposed. And that's

[172:27] not we're number one. That's Jordan

[172:28] first. And uh when the Iraqi soldier

[172:31] believes that he is a uh a viable

[172:34] representative of the government for the

[172:37] security of the Iraqi people, then

[172:39] you'll see the Iraqi security forces

[172:41] stand up when they are properly

[172:42] equipped,

[172:43] >> right?

[172:43] >> Uh you'll see you'll see a better

[172:46] performance.

[172:46] >> General Trainer to to be at this

[172:49] position. Uh, Colonel Hammond is saying

[172:51] that this that this administration has

[172:54] made an immoral decision not to fully

[172:56] train, equip, repair equipment. Um,

[173:01] does that mean the general staff of the

[173:02] United States military has also made an

[173:04] immoral decision not to to wrankle and

[173:07] to bridle and to deal with that issue? I

[173:09] don't want I don't want to deal with

[173:11] moral judgments, but let me say

[173:13] something, Lou, that we for three and a

[173:15] half years, uh, we have tried to put an

[173:18] effective Iraqi field force out there.

[173:20] Uh, and we haven't done done very well.

[173:23] They haven't stood up. Now, I don't know

[173:24] if it's feasible, but uh, it was seemed

[173:27] to me that it might be useful to try to

[173:29] put together a model unit. In other

[173:32] words, take our best advisers and

[173:35] trainers and put them with a unit. I I

[173:39] if you could get the some very ripe

[173:41] people both on the Sunni side and the

[173:43] Shia side and train those people aside

[173:46] from from everything else is going on so

[173:48] that you get an effective unit that

[173:50] they're effectively supported not only

[173:52] by the advisers but with the necessary

[173:54] equipment and put them in the field and

[173:57] get them in that first fight and show

[173:59] that they can win and then they become a

[174:01] symbol for the rest of the Iraqi armed

[174:03] forces. General Trainer, didn't we know

[174:05] this good lord three and a half years

[174:07] ago?

[174:08] >> Well, I have to tell you, Lou, I'm

[174:10] surprised that uh that we didn't do

[174:13] better than than we've done. I mean,

[174:15] General Eaton is a better position to

[174:17] answer that question than I am.

[174:19] >> General Trainer has handed off to you

[174:20] very quickly, General.

[174:22] >> No, it it's been a half-hearted effort

[174:24] from the very beginning. We have failed

[174:25] to mobilize the nation and mobilize the

[174:28] requisite number of forces and and uh

[174:31] and and dollars. I I can't put it more

[174:33] simply than that.

[174:34] >> To provide for the Iraqi security

[174:36] forces.

[174:37] >> Hamas, you got the last word here. What

[174:39] is Do we have a intelligent effective

[174:44] option left here or are we looking at a

[174:48] question of withdrawal? It's just a

[174:50] question of time.

[174:51] >> I think all the options. It's a matter

[174:53] of picking the least bad option. We

[174:55] raced into this uh fight because we only

[174:58] had one view of how Iraq would turn out.

[175:00] If we are going to talk about withdrawal

[175:02] then we have to look at the various

[175:03] things that could happen.

[175:05] >> You foundation

[175:07] >> uh we stay we prepare the Iraqi armed

[175:10] forces. We also plan for total civil war

[175:13] and what we do if we have to get out.

[175:16] >> Colonel Hamus, General Eaton, General

[175:19] Trainer. Thank you gentlemen for being

[175:21] here.

[175:22] >> Thanks Luke.

[175:23] >> Even if we have to look the as you put

[175:26] it some very bad choices straight in the

[175:28] face. Thank you gentlemen.

[175:30] Coming up shortly here, the situation

[175:32] room with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf.

[175:34] >> Thanks, Lou. Good discussion. Three

[175:36] kisses between Iran and Iraq. The

[175:38] leaders of the two nations meet ahead of

[175:40] a visit by President Bush to the region.

[175:42] A look at Iran's growing influence as a

[175:45] power player in the region. We'll have

[175:46] that. Also, more on the civil war of

[175:49] words over Iraq. The fight over

[175:51] semantics as the death toll continues to

[175:54] mount. Plus, Michael Richards, our

[175:56] interview with the former Seinfeld star

[175:58] after his racist rant and blonde bond.

[176:02] The new spy icon gets revenge on his

[176:04] critics. Genie Mos is on the story. All

[176:06] that, Lou, coming up at the top of the

[176:08] hour.

[176:09] >> Genie Mos on this story. All right,

[176:11] thank you very much, Wolf. Still ahead

[176:13] here, we'll have the results of our

[176:14] poll. Stay with us.

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[178:45] for just one quick email here. Tom in

[178:48] Ohio writes, "Hello, all I want for

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[178:57] your thoughts at ludos.com. Thanks for

[178:59] being with us tonight. Please join us

[179:00] tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for

[179:01] watching. And good night from New York.

[179:03] The situation room with Wolf Blitzer

[179:05] begins now. Wol,

[179:06] >> thanks very much Lou. And to our

[179:08] viewers, you're in the situation room

[179:09] where new pictures and information are

[179:11] arriving all the time. standing by CNN

[179:14] reporters across the United States and

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[179:18] top stories happening now as American