ABC News - Iraq War - 2003-03-21 - 12 midnight (E)
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (YouTube automatic captions)
[0:00] if it does. This is ABC News continuing
[0:03] live coverage of the war with Iraq.
[0:13] I'm Peter Jennings again at ABC or still
[0:16] perhaps is a more accurate word at ABC
[0:17] News headquarters. It is now midnight in
[0:19] the east, 9:00 Pacific time and it is
[0:21] 8:00 in the morning uh in Baghdad. And
[0:25] we try to begin every hour with some
[0:27] kind of uh where we are at this time of
[0:30] the day. It is well past first late
[0:31] light light in Baghdad. There has been
[0:33] no attack on Baghdad for many hours now.
[0:36] We know that the administration is
[0:38] trying very hard as are various
[0:40] intelligence agencies in a variety of
[0:42] countries trying to figure out what
[0:44] happened with this major US attack on
[0:48] what has been described as a leadership
[0:50] bunker in Baghdad. We know that both the
[0:52] Marines and the army have now breached
[0:55] the uh line of departure on the Kuwaiti
[0:58] Iraqi border and gone across. There's
[1:00] been some air activity in the north
[1:02] because the Kurds have given uh the US
[1:05] permission to fly across Turkey at the
[1:07] moment, but according at least to a
[1:09] Kurdish representative we spoke to a
[1:10] while ago, no particular combat in the
[1:12] north. Uh, and we are sad to report, and
[1:15] Bob Brown will report in detail in this
[1:17] summary, that the first American
[1:20] casualties have occurred. Four Americans
[1:22] and eight British members of the Royal
[1:24] Marines, we're told, uh, were killed
[1:26] when a Marine helicopter, a sea king,
[1:29] went down inside Kuwait, returning from
[1:31] a mission at the eastern edge of the
[1:35] battlefront up near Basra and Uncaser on
[1:38] the waterway, which is Iraq's only
[1:40] access to the sea. We do not know what
[1:42] has happened. Um the Pentagon has simply
[1:45] been forthcoming enough to tell us that
[1:46] there were four Marines. They've not
[1:47] been identified at least to us and that
[1:50] is surely pending the notification of
[1:51] next of kin. Uh whatever one's views
[1:54] about the war very difficult for Marine
[1:57] and Army, Air Force and Navy families
[1:59] all across the country tonight. uh to be
[2:02] watching this unfold on television to a
[2:04] far greater degree than it ever has
[2:06] before and wondering not to put too fine
[2:09] a point of what the hell is going on. At
[2:11] any rate, ABC's Bob Brown u has been
[2:14] back and looked at the day. So to begin
[2:17] yet another hour and in the case of the
[2:19] Eastern time zone, another day, here is
[2:21] a summary of the last 24 hours.
[2:26] The second 24 hours of fighting has been
[2:29] marked so far by the movement of
[2:30] American and British troops into Iraq
[2:33] and toward the southern city of Basra.
[2:35] It still isn't known whether the Iraqis
[2:37] are putting up resistance. There are
[2:39] reports from the Pentagon that military
[2:42] authorities have received encouraging
[2:43] signs from some Republican Guard units.
[2:46] The Pentagon has also confirmed the
[2:48] first reported casualties of the war. 16
[2:52] British and American servicemen have
[2:54] died in a helicopter crash in Kuwait
[2:56] after conducting operations related to
[2:58] the invasion of Iraq.
[3:00] In the first 24 hours, a number of
[3:03] questions were posed. What will
[3:05] characterize a full-scale coalition
[3:07] offensive, which authorities say still
[3:09] has not begun despite new attacks? What
[3:12] is the state of law enforcement on the
[3:14] home front amid concerns over terrorist
[3:16] activities? And is this really Saddam
[3:19] Hussein or a double? That last question
[3:22] arose when this man appeared on Iraqi
[3:24] television to issue a defiant response
[3:26] to the first US attack last night. An
[3:29] attack aimed at taking out members of
[3:31] the Iraqi leadership. Defense Secretary
[3:33] Rumsfeld left the answer open.
[3:36] >> The damage assessment on the compound is
[3:39] pending,
[3:41] >> but voice analysts expressed the opinion
[3:43] that the speaker was Hussein.
[3:47] The Washington Post reports that US
[3:49] officials believe Saddam Hussein and his
[3:51] sons were still in their compound when
[3:54] it was hit. In his press conference,
[3:56] Rumsfeld did offer his view of the
[3:58] eventual nature of the war that had just
[4:00] begun.
[4:01] >> It will be a of a force and scope and
[4:03] scale that has been beyond what has been
[4:07] seen before.
[4:10] Rumsfeld spoke a few hours after a
[4:12] halfozen alarms had gone off in Kuwait
[4:14] City, triggering gas mask alerts as a
[4:17] result of Iraqi missiles that had been
[4:19] fired toward Kuwait City and over the
[4:21] positions of US forces. The Pentagon
[4:24] said two of those missiles were
[4:25] destroyed by US Patriot 3 missiles.
[4:27] There were no reports of casualties or
[4:29] of chemical or biological agents. There
[4:32] were reports that several oil wells near
[4:34] the southern city of Bazra had been set
[4:36] a fire and that contributed to
[4:38] speculation as to whether the US might
[4:41] alter its carefully prepared plans for
[4:43] an invasion. To at least some extent,
[4:45] the schedule was advanced. According to
[4:48] ABC's Mike Suré, moving across the Iraqi
[4:51] border with US Marines from the first
[4:53] expeditionary force, Suré reported that
[4:55] the invasion started about 12 hours
[4:57] earlier than had been planned. This
[5:00] invasion got launched early because of
[5:02] serious intelligence reports of a mass
[5:05] buildup of enemy tanks just north of our
[5:07] position and because of reports of some
[5:10] oil fires. I think the decision was made
[5:12] to go in sooner than expected.
[5:14] >> Reporters accompanying the Marines say
[5:16] they now have seen fires flickering on
[5:19] the nighttime horizon. As the Marines
[5:21] moved in to secure positions in Iraq,
[5:24] military authorities characterized the
[5:26] advance not as a full-scale attack, but
[5:29] still as part of the preparation. Troops
[5:31] from the US Third Infantry Division,
[5:33] still on the Kuwait side of the border,
[5:35] unleashed heavy artillery fire into
[5:37] Iraq, but no fire was returned.
[5:42] A second round of air attacks was
[5:43] launched against Baghdad. British as
[5:46] well as American ships fired Tomahawk
[5:48] cruise missiles into government
[5:49] buildings west of the Tigress River. And
[5:52] despite the smoke and fire, authorities
[5:54] said this still was not the beginning of
[5:56] the massive air campaign that has been
[5:58] threatened.
[6:00] Demonstrations against the war were
[6:02] staged in both Syria and Egypt. Riot
[6:05] police used water cannons to restrain
[6:07] the crowd in Cairo. 20,000 protesters
[6:10] turned out in Paris where there was also
[6:12] a report that two flasks with traces of
[6:15] the deadly toxin Ryson had been
[6:17] discovered in the luggage depot of a
[6:19] railway station apparently for use
[6:21] against American interests in this
[6:23] country. Anti-war protests occupied
[6:25] police in several major cities. A
[6:28] protest in Chicago stopped traffic on
[6:30] Lakeshore Drive during the afternoon
[6:32] rush hour.
[6:34] And there were continuing anti-war
[6:36] demonstrations in Washington and in New
[6:38] York under heavy rains. New York has
[6:41] also placed in effect what is termed
[6:43] Operation Atlas with checkpoints at
[6:45] every crossing into Manhattan and
[6:47] throughout the city in its largest
[6:49] anti-terrorist operation ever. There was
[6:52] extra protection at city landmarks and
[6:55] at rail stations where K9 units were
[6:57] used to sniff baggage. The FBI also
[7:00] issued a terrorist alert for a
[7:02] 27-year-old Saudi man, Adnan G. El
[7:05] Shukri Juma, possibly involved with
[7:07] al-Qaeda, said to have received flight
[7:09] training in Florida and who may have
[7:11] been in the Miami area before he
[7:13] disappeared.
[7:14] >> They are the finest in the world.
[7:16] >> Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair in
[7:18] an address tonight announced that
[7:19] British servicemen and women are now
[7:21] engaged in the war from land, sea, and
[7:23] air. The British are among the troops
[7:26] said to be moving toward Basra. A report
[7:28] that the small town of Um Kaser has been
[7:30] captured was denied by the Iraqis.
[7:34] With attacks underway, missiles
[7:35] exchanged, and the coalition having
[7:37] fought for its first 24 hours, the
[7:40] commanding general of the First Marine
[7:41] Division told his troops who will fight
[7:43] during the next 24 hours, "Engage your
[7:46] brain before you engage your weapon.
[7:48] Share your courage with each other as we
[7:50] enter the uncertain terrain north of the
[7:53] line of departure." Those
[7:55] are very poetic words of the Marine
[7:57] commander as they were going uh close to
[8:00] the line of departure. The Marines are
[8:01] now across as Bob Brown just told you,
[8:03] the army is now across. And in a in a
[8:06] very long day of coverage, there have
[8:08] been some extraordinary moments looking
[8:11] not just at the military campaign, but
[8:13] at Baghdad itself. and across um the
[8:17] length and breadth of America and other
[8:18] parts of the world and seeing just a few
[8:20] minutes ago that uh that report on
[8:22] demonstrations against the war from
[8:24] ABC's Dean Reynolds. But clearly for us
[8:27] at least, one of the truly memorable
[8:30] experiences was to see that technology
[8:34] now permitted us in the person of ABC's
[8:37] Ted Cppel with his crew, Alex Brookner,
[8:39] and his wife, his cameraman, and
[8:41] soundman, uh, to set up on the very edge
[8:44] of the line of departure as the third
[8:47] infantry division was pushing across
[8:49] into Iraq. And for about 20 or 30
[8:51] minutes, I didn't realize it was quite
[8:52] so long at the time, Ted and I had a
[8:55] conversation. We've known each other for
[8:57] a very long time about what was
[8:59] happening. And so here largely his
[9:02] contribution from the field is a replay
[9:04] of at least part of that conversation.
[9:08] >> Hey Ted, it's yours again.
[9:13] >> Uh Peter, can you hear me?
[9:15] >> Very clearly, Ted. Go ahead.
[9:19] All right. Excellent. I I I must say I
[9:22] was trying to think of I was trying to
[9:23] think of something that would be
[9:25] appropriate to say on an occasion like
[9:27] this. And as is often the case, the best
[9:29] you can come up with is something that
[9:31] Shakespeare wrote for Henry V. Wreak
[9:33] havoc and unleash the dogs of war. And
[9:36] there they start moving into Iraq. Uh
[9:39] you know, I spoke to you just a few
[9:40] minutes ago as the very first vehicles
[9:42] went in. Uh, I'm going to ask the
[9:44] cameraman just to pan over now and you
[9:46] can watch this really endless line. Uh,
[9:50] there's a Bradley fighting vehicle going
[9:52] by right now. A couple of them passing
[9:54] through the border. Uh, and the line
[9:57] stretches in the other direction as far
[9:59] as I can see, Peter.
[10:01] >> And so, what kind of a night has it
[10:03] been? For example, there's a large burm
[10:06] behind you which looks like it has been
[10:08] broken through. Is that what they spend
[10:09] the night doing? Creating these
[10:11] openings? Actually,
[10:15] Peter, I have a feeling that there have
[10:18] been uh engineers and special ops forces
[10:21] in here for quite a long time. And uh
[10:25] this last burm they just broke through,
[10:28] I guess, during the course of the night.
[10:30] There is another burm about 5 miles up.
[10:32] They had broken through that. uh they
[10:34] quite literally just left the barbed
[10:36] wire in place. Although I think they
[10:38] didn't even snip that before uh before
[10:41] the invasion began, but symbolically
[10:43] that barbed wire was the last thing
[10:45] standing between these ground forces and
[10:48] Iraq. So talk to us a little bit now
[10:50] about logistics because you talked about
[10:52] the Abrams going in first at the moment
[10:55] and they're the greatest gas guzzler in
[10:57] the US military. So where's all the
[10:59] refueling trucks for them? Right behind
[11:04] Uh the refueling trucks are coming and
[11:06] Peter uh I'm trying to remember now. I
[11:08] think there are 350
[11:11] uh of the oil tankers. Each oil tanker
[11:14] carries some 5,000 gallons. Uh and I did
[11:18] the math before. I couldn't do it
[11:19] otherwise this early in the morning.
[11:21] 1,750,000
[11:24] gallons of fuel that they are bringing
[11:26] with them. and they have built a
[11:28] pipeline uh through northern Kuwait all
[11:31] the way to the border here. Uh and over
[11:34] these next few days, among the other
[11:36] things they'll be doing is laying
[11:37] pipeline because they're going to be
[11:39] pumping oil all the way up from Kuwait
[11:43] into Iraq simply to support this
[11:45] enormous armored force.
[11:47] >> Talk to us a little bit about the Abrams
[11:49] tank. It is the principal tank in the in
[11:51] the US military. It is vastly superior
[11:53] to the Iraqi tank even though the Iraqis
[11:55] have some extremely good Russian tanks.
[12:00] It is the uh it is the biggest the
[12:03] baddest tank in the world and they are
[12:05] enormously proud of it. It has got huge
[12:07] firepower and it is at least from the
[12:09] front and as you know Peter tankers
[12:12] maneuver so that they can try and
[12:13] approach each other so that they are
[12:15] coming from the front. The front of the
[12:18] Abrams tank is essentially in
[12:20] invulnerable to anything that any other
[12:22] tank can throw at it. Now, if they can
[12:24] get it from the top, if they can get it
[12:26] from the side, they can probably knock
[12:28] the tread off, but it's an enormously
[12:30] powerful tank and it has huge firepower
[12:32] with it. And once you get into Iraq, the
[12:34] Abrams has the extraordinary advantage
[12:37] over the Iraqis of being able to fight
[12:38] at a greater distance.
[12:43] >> Uh, you of course have put your finger
[12:45] right on it. They can uh they can fire
[12:48] from a distance of over 2 mi with
[12:50] extraordinary accuracy. And I believe
[12:53] that the death that the Russian tanks
[12:54] have is probably about a mile and a
[12:56] quarter, a mile and a half. So they can
[12:58] stand off and they can be killing enemy
[13:00] tanks and the enemy can't even uh can't
[13:04] even approach them.
[13:05] >> Would you mind asking your cameraman to
[13:07] show us as as as much as we can within
[13:10] your limitations of the environment
[13:12] you're in?
[13:14] I I was just about to uh I was just
[13:17] about to ask him to do that. Alex, if
[13:19] you would just turn the camera around so
[13:21] that they can see this long line.
[13:25] >> This is Alex Brookner.
[13:26] >> Peter, we will uh we'll see.
[13:32] I I hope you'll forgive me, Peter, if on
[13:35] this occasion I say not one of our He's
[13:37] the best cameraman we've got.
[13:38] >> Alex Brookner. He's an Austrian.
[13:40] >> Certainly this morning.
[13:41] >> That's right. His sound recordist is his
[13:43] is his wife. They have seen an
[13:46] extraordinary amount of service for ABC
[13:47] in many many parts of the world. They've
[13:49] been in combat more times than I think
[13:51] they like. But when Ted went off uh uh
[13:54] to be embedded with uh the third
[13:57] infantry, he was not dumb. He took Alex
[14:00] Brookner with him, who's a great
[14:01] cameraman.
[14:09] You can see the line just stretching off
[14:11] into the distance, Peter. And and you
[14:14] can see what is the bane of our
[14:15] existence out here. Those white clouds
[14:18] are just clouds of very very fine sand.
[14:22] It gets into everything. It gets into
[14:25] the machinery. It gets into our eyes,
[14:28] nose, mouth. Uh and it's almost
[14:31] impossible to stay away from it. And of
[14:33] course when you're in convoy uh with
[14:37] these kinds of vehicles, the dust is
[14:39] just everywhere.
[14:41] >> Ted, there was quite a lot of talk
[14:42] before the Third Infantry crossed over
[14:45] that the goal here was to move rapidly
[14:48] uh towards Baghdad and did not expect to
[14:51] meet any significant opposition, I think
[14:53] you said. But as we're seeing from the
[14:55] pictures today, the infantry only moves
[14:58] as fast as its slowest vehicle. So, what
[15:01] does that mean in terms of overall
[15:03] speed?
[15:06] >> Well, I'm I'm not sure that's entirely
[15:08] true, Peter. Um the uh the business
[15:11] about moving as fast as their slowest
[15:13] vehicle. Had they found uh that they
[15:16] were successful yesterday in killing
[15:18] Saddam Hussein, I think you would have
[15:21] seen all the fastest vehicles moving up
[15:23] to Baghdad probably in a day uh or a day
[15:26] and a half. uh as things stand and and
[15:29] you'll have to tell me because uh I
[15:32] don't have that information. I assume
[15:33] that Saddam is still alive or don't they
[15:37] know? I I I think they don't know. I
[15:40] think the general consensus at the
[15:41] moment is that uh is that it was when he
[15:44] appeared on television or when somebody
[15:45] appeared on television speaking to the
[15:47] Iraqi people today, it was Saddam
[15:48] Hussein. But it's only the general
[15:50] consensus of analysts. I don't think
[15:52] anybody knows absolutely for sure at
[15:54] this point.
[15:59] Well, uh, since they don't know and
[16:02] since I guess the assumption has to be
[16:04] that he's still alive, uh, the drive
[16:06] toward Baghdad is, uh, something that
[16:09] will begin probably in another day or
[16:13] so, but, uh, there's some other business
[16:15] that has to be taken care of in some
[16:17] locations here in the south, and you'll
[16:20] be hearing about those over the course
[16:21] of the next couple of days. Uh my
[16:23] assumption is that it would uh it'll
[16:25] probably take us about uh four or five
[16:28] days at the least to get up to Baghdad
[16:30] now.
[16:31] >> Okay. Ted, anything? You can come back
[16:33] anytime you want. Anything else for the
[16:34] moment?
[16:38] >> Well, I just think Peter, we ought to
[16:40] take note of the of the significance of
[16:42] what is happening here because this is
[16:44] an invasion that in this particular case
[16:47] of course was not prompted by any
[16:49] invasion of the United States. Uh I know
[16:52] that members of the administration have
[16:54] been uh creating a tenuous linkage
[16:58] between al-Qaeda and the Iraqis uh so
[17:02] that there is that linkage between 9/11
[17:06] uh and what's happening here now. But
[17:07] this is a more proactive preemptive kind
[17:11] of operation uh certainly a larger
[17:14] preemptive operation than I think the
[17:16] United States of America has ever
[17:18] engaged in. Uh, and whichever way it
[17:21] goes, I think it's going to shift the
[17:22] plates of the world.
[17:24] >> Something else you could do for us at
[17:26] the moment, Ted, while we just keep our
[17:28] camera, keep Alex pointed at the various
[17:30] pieces of equipment going by, is to
[17:32] describe a little more the actual
[17:35] armament that is going in. We're looking
[17:36] at the Abrams now. Uh, there's an
[17:39] armored bulldozer, I think, behind one
[17:41] of those Abrams. Um, but the capacity of
[17:44] this armored division is really quite
[17:47] extraordinary and and more modern in the
[17:51] last 10 years since the Gulf War uh than
[17:54] anybody had ever anticipated. Correct.
[17:59] >> No, you're exactly right. And in many
[18:01] ways, the most modern thing about it is
[18:03] not even its fighting capability. I'm
[18:06] talking now of the Abrams tanks and the
[18:08] Bradley fighting vehicle. Uh but the
[18:11] communications that exist in each one of
[18:14] these uh vehicles with command which is
[18:17] also mobile uh we have a uh a fairly
[18:21] significant uh command post mobile
[18:24] command post that is occupied by General
[18:26] Blunt. uh and uh inside he has uh both
[18:32] satellite capabilities, computer
[18:33] capabilities. All this information is
[18:35] fed into the computers and can be
[18:38] immediately transmit not over field
[18:41] telephone but immediately transmitted uh
[18:44] by touching the screen. The icons will
[18:46] move and he can give directions to any
[18:48] of these tank commanders. I mean quite
[18:50] literally an individual tank commander
[18:53] or they if they are going into action
[18:55] can communicate back to the commanding
[18:57] general who can then distribute the
[18:59] information all around. So the
[19:01] communications I would say is the
[19:03] biggest difference in in terms of their
[19:05] fighting capability right now. Um I' I'd
[19:08] like Peter uh just to draw your
[19:10] attention. Alex, if you could just get a
[19:12] shot of that. You see the panel on the
[19:14] side of the uh of the tank
[19:18] >> or or the
[19:19] >> corrugated panel Peter on the side of
[19:21] the tank.
[19:22] >> I do. That's actually the Bradley
[19:24] looking at
[19:25] >> Thank you. That that is that's Yes, you
[19:28] are right. We are looking at a Bradley.
[19:30] Um that corrugated panel uh enables
[19:34] there there were a lot of instances of
[19:37] fratricside
[19:38] >> right
[19:38] >> during operation desert storm and those
[19:42] panels uh allow any fighting vehicle out
[19:46] here and any aircraft to immediately
[19:49] identify that vehicle as belonging to
[19:51] the US army. So they are hoping that the
[19:54] instances of fratricside will be kept
[19:56] down to an absolute minimum. And maybe
[19:58] you could ask Alex to pan back for just
[20:00] a second to the left to pick up those
[20:01] guys who have, to their great relief, I
[20:03] think, got out of the back of their
[20:04] Bradley fighting vehicle. It's slightly
[20:06] misnamed as a fighting vehicle. It does
[20:08] have a 25mm cannon on the top and it
[20:11] does have an additional machine gun, but
[20:13] it is principally a transporter of men.
[20:16] And if they have to sit in the back,
[20:18] they tell us that it's good, decent
[20:21] accommodation for six people. And
[20:23] sometimes they've got 10 people in the
[20:25] back. And if you've got seven or eight
[20:27] people in full chemical suits, as you've
[20:29] seen Ted wearing at the moment, it is
[20:31] about as uncomfortable as you can get.
[20:34] And you do not want to be a driver of a
[20:36] Bradley fighting vehicle. I think Ted,
[20:38] if you're if you're taller than 5'4.
[20:44] Uh I can uh I'm just a little bit taller
[20:47] than 5'4 and I was inside a Bradley
[20:50] fighting vehicle the other day and
[20:51] you're absolutely absolutely right. Very
[20:53] very little room. the squads actually
[20:56] you're leading into an interesting line
[20:58] of discussion because the uh Bradley
[21:00] fighting vehicle normally takes a squad
[21:02] of seven but in point of fact the
[21:05] infantrymen as you and I remember him
[21:08] from uh World War II days or or Korean
[21:11] days or even Vietnam the in the days of
[21:14] the infantrymen are not quite over but
[21:18] they are certainly diminished. This is a
[21:21] mechanized infantry division and out of
[21:23] 20,000 men only 1,200 of them uh are
[21:27] actually infantrymen in the sense of on
[21:30] occasion having to get out and walk. Uh
[21:32] this is not one of those occasions.
[21:34] Everybody rides today.
[21:36] >> I just wanted to add one more thing and
[21:38] perhaps you can do it even better than I
[21:40] can about these thermal imaging panels
[21:42] which are on the side. They're sometimes
[21:44] on the roof. You can also see them for
[21:46] example on that vehicle just going by.
[21:47] You can see them on the back of a
[21:49] fighting vehicle as well. But they this
[21:52] is another example of the extraordinary
[21:54] technology which is available to US
[21:57] forces this time because it is the heat
[21:59] pattern from trucks and jeeps and
[22:01] Bradley fighting vehicles and tanks that
[22:04] airplanes and gunners pick up through
[22:05] their thermal imaging devices. Have I
[22:07] got that right, Ted?
[22:11] >> That's exactly right. Now those side
[22:13] panels of course would be visible to
[22:15] other ground forces. What they have is a
[22:18] special tape that uh is put on top of
[22:21] each of these vehicles. And that tape is
[22:23] visible from uh I'm told 13,000 ft up.
[22:30] I grant you it is quite an an amazing
[22:33] site to see. You said I thought 10,000
[22:36] vehicles in this uh in this entire
[22:41] movement of the third infantry division
[22:43] moving forward.
[22:46] That's exactly right. And there you see
[22:48] one of the tankers going through. And uh
[22:51] uh the men, you should know, have been
[22:54] told
[22:55] uh that they were to bring enough MREs,
[22:59] meals ready to eat, enough food for 5 to
[23:02] 7 days, enough water for 5 to 7 days.
[23:06] And that adds up to an enormous amount
[23:08] of water because out here, Peter, it's
[23:10] still quite brisk and chilly uh because
[23:13] it's uh shortly after dawn, the sun is
[23:15] just rising. But the men here are told
[23:18] that they should uh try to consume 3 L
[23:21] of water every day. Uh and so 3 L of
[23:25] water per man times 7 uh just to carry
[23:28] 21 L of water for each man. Uh you can
[23:32] imagine how stuffed uh those vehicles
[23:35] are. And if you look at the side of
[23:36] them, you can see that the men's duffel
[23:38] bags are on the side. One of the things
[23:40] that everyone is concerned about, of
[23:42] course, is if uh in the uh the wonderful
[23:45] new parliament of the of the modern GI,
[23:48] if they get slimed, they borrowed that
[23:50] of course from Ghostbusters. What
[23:52] they're talking about is if they get hit
[23:54] by chemical or biological weapons,
[23:56] everything on the outside of these
[23:58] vehicles is gone. all of their gear uh
[24:02] which they tend to hang from the outside
[24:04] of these Bradleys and these tanks uh has
[24:07] to be disposed of because they're not
[24:09] going to be able to save it. But as we
[24:11] watch these uh tanks and there again is
[24:13] an armored bulldozer going forward. Um
[24:16] reminded to add the importance of these
[24:18] panels on all of these vehicles because
[24:19] in Desert Storm in 1991 looking back at
[24:23] my factbook friendly fire uh fractide as
[24:26] it's often referred to in the military
[24:28] or blue onblue casualties accounted for
[24:31] 24% of US combat deaths. So this is a
[24:34] not only a huge but a necessary step
[24:36] forward.
[24:39] Ted, I must say, um, the microphone
[24:42] you're using will remind some of our
[24:44] viewers of reporting from Britain
[24:46] during, uh, the Second World War because
[24:50] that was that's a sound exterior sound
[24:52] suppressing microphone, which you very
[24:54] rarely ever see in the field.
[24:57] >> Yeah. Which, well, you and I call them
[25:00] lip mics. And, uh, we use them when
[25:02] there's a lot of extraneous noise. And
[25:05] as you can imagine, with all this heavy
[25:06] armor rolling by, we thought there would
[25:08] be so much noise that if we used one of
[25:11] our more modern uh and tinier
[25:13] microphones, all you would hear is the
[25:15] sound of the armor and uh we wouldn't be
[25:18] able to talk to one another.
[25:19] >> All right, Ted, while you and I have
[25:21] been chatting, our our principal
[25:22] military analyst, Tony Cordisman, has
[25:24] been listening to us. If we could just
[25:25] keep your camera up for a second, we'll
[25:27] invite Tony to come in and give us some
[25:29] sense of the overall tactic here, Tony,
[25:32] for the third infant in Infantry
[25:33] Division.
[25:36] Well, I think one of the keys, Peter,
[25:38] here and what you're seeing by going
[25:40] into the desert is to try to avoid
[25:43] all of the regular Iraqi units as long
[25:46] as possible.
[25:48] You probably may even be able to drive
[25:50] the Republican guards back on Baghdad.
[25:53] That gives the army the maximum speed.
[25:56] The difficulty where Ted is, we're not
[25:59] sure of the position he's using. It's
[26:01] easy to draw these lines on the map, but
[26:03] sooner or later there are bridge
[26:06] crossings. You have to go across the
[26:08] Euphrates. If you go into that main
[26:10] road, there's something like 40 bridges
[26:12] in that area. Or by the standards of the
[26:14] Iraqis, it has a mechanized division, an
[26:17] armored division, and an infantry
[26:19] division. There's another regular army
[26:22] corps that has three divisions, but only
[26:25] one of those divisions has real tank
[26:27] strength. The other two are infantry.
[26:30] And again, when we look at the forces
[26:32] Ted is with, these US forces are all
[26:36] professional, all trained, all
[26:38] volunteers in the Iraqi forces. Almost
[26:42] all of the infantry divisions are
[26:44] low-grade conscripts. Many of them are
[26:47] Shiite. Some of them even are
[26:49] assimilated Kurds. They have far less
[26:52] incentive to fight. Very little
[26:54] training, very little professionalism.
[26:57] Let me call on now someone who has more
[26:59] experience with this than the rest of us
[27:01] all put together and that's Major
[27:02] General William Nash who's one of our
[27:04] analysts. He's currently a fellow at the
[27:07] Council on Foreign Relations in New York
[27:09] City though based in Washington. But in
[27:11] the Gulf War he was commander of the
[27:13] first brigade of the third armored
[27:15] division which is now defunct during
[27:17] Desert Storm and they were part of the
[27:19] main attack from Saudi Arabia into Iraq
[27:22] and fought the Republican guard. So,
[27:24] General Nash, if you wouldn't mind, as
[27:26] we watch this procession of tanks and
[27:28] Bradley fighting vehicles and bridge
[27:30] building equipment go by, what would you
[27:32] be thinking? For one thing, where is the
[27:35] air cover at the moment, or is it
[27:36] necessary?
[27:38] Well, I'm sure that uh Colonel uh
[27:40] General uh Buh General Buford's got uh
[27:44] his uh air cavalry assets out in front
[27:46] of the division at this point.
[27:48] >> Uh conducting reconnaissance and
[27:51] surveillance to his front and flanks as
[27:54] he moves through.
[27:55] >> Uh there's no need for air cover over
[27:57] the column. Uh the fact that the the
[28:00] Iraqi forces don't pose an air threat to
[28:03] him. What he's trying to do now is get
[28:05] the division through the BMS. The
[28:08] brigade commanders and the battalion
[28:09] commanders. As soon as they clear the
[28:11] burm areas, they'll go into combat
[28:13] formations that will allow the the
[28:16] column. It'll widen the forces will
[28:19] widen. Uh they will also be able to
[28:21] close up and they'll start picking up
[28:24] the pace of their movement to around 15
[28:27] m an hour across the desert. Now, if you
[28:30] wouldn't mind, if you wouldn't mind
[28:31] doing the math for us, just break it
[28:33] down for people who are not so familiar.
[28:35] How many men and how much equipment in a
[28:38] division? How many men and the equipment
[28:40] in a battalion? And break it down even
[28:42] further. How many how much equipment and
[28:45] how many men in a brigade?
[28:47] >> Well, to begin with, let's start with
[28:50] the company, Peter. And there's about uh
[28:52] in a tank company
[28:54] uh there are uh there well there used to
[28:58] be 17 I'm talking like an old sort of 15
[29:01] tanks
[29:01] >> right
[29:02] >> uh and with about 100 soldiers a little
[29:05] bit less than 100
[29:06] >> right
[29:06] >> three three to four companies per
[29:08] battalion with their support troops
[29:11] that's 500 folks
[29:13] >> uh three to four maneuver battalions in
[29:15] a brigade plus artillery plus engineers
[29:19] plus logistical report probably for this
[29:21] operation uh third infantry division
[29:24] brigades are running about 5,000
[29:26] soldiers.
[29:27] >> You put the division together, three
[29:29] brigades plus their artillery uh plus
[29:32] their aviation plus their logistics plus
[29:35] their engineers, uh you're up in the 15
[29:38] to 20,000 uh soldier range. So the the
[29:41] third infantry division as we see it
[29:43] proceeding across the frontier today in
[29:46] front of us about 6:30 in the morning uh
[29:49] their time is somewhere between 15 and
[29:52] 20,000 men and how many tanks?
[29:54] >> Uh he's probably running about 350 tanks
[29:58] uh and a few more uh Bradley fighting
[30:01] vehicles.
[30:01] >> All right, let me raise the the bar just
[30:03] one more time. Many of these divisions
[30:05] and these briades
[30:06] >> Peter. Yes, Dad. Go ahead. Who?
[30:09] Peter, can I let me just jump in for a
[30:12] moment. Uh, you can probably see that a
[30:15] bridge is being put in place across a
[30:18] massive ditch that the Iraqis had built.
[30:20] Can you see it through the dust and
[30:22] between the vehicles as they go by? They
[30:25] are laying that bridge right now. And uh
[30:27] I'm sure I'm sure the general can
[30:29] explain to you uh how helpful that is
[30:32] and how quickly it's going to enable
[30:34] them to open up uh a new path through
[30:37] the Burm here.
[30:38] Well, Ted, you're doing a very good job
[30:40] by yourself. Uh, there are a lot of
[30:42] ditches there on either side of the
[30:43] burm. These BMS were partly built by the
[30:45] Kuwaitis on this side and partly built
[30:47] by the Iraqis. Correct.
[30:51] >> Yeah, I suspect that the the one you're
[30:53] looking at right now was probably built
[30:55] by the Kuwaitis. This is the uh the last
[30:58] little bit of Kuwait that these uh
[31:00] armored vehicles are passing through
[31:02] right now. Uh but this will enable them
[31:04] to uh to open up yet another path.
[31:07] You've seen them all following this one
[31:09] path through the Burm. Uh and now that
[31:12] they have bridged that uh ditch uh about
[31:15] a 100 m over uh I suspect that very soon
[31:19] you'll start seeing vehicles going over
[31:20] that one too.
[31:23] >> We've just had Ted
[31:24] >> What's 60 ft?
[31:25] >> You you you cannot see it, but we've
[31:27] just had one of those uh rare graphic
[31:30] renditions of a bridge of of a piece of
[31:32] equipment that was absolutely perfectly
[31:34] fit with your description. And this, of
[31:36] course, General, will enable them to
[31:37] send two columns forward, not merely
[31:39] one. Am I correct?
[31:44] General Nash.
[31:45] >> Uh, right. That may well have been just
[31:47] an exercise there. Yeah.
[31:49] >> Because, uh, the launch uh the the
[31:52] bridge vehicle was, uh, exercising it
[31:55] capacity in that particular picture. I'm
[31:58] sure the division is using two to three
[32:00] uh, uh, crossing sites at this point as
[32:03] they move north. uh a division on a
[32:07] roll.
[32:07] >> Actually, uh if if if I may, General
[32:11] Nash, if I may, just for a moment, uh
[32:14] it's it's far more than two or three. Uh
[32:17] and if if it were two or three, it would
[32:19] take them two or three days to get all
[32:21] this armor through here. Uh they're
[32:23] going to be moving at uh well, I guess
[32:25] now that they're doing it, there's no
[32:27] secret to it anymore. They're going to
[32:28] be moving through anywhere from 8 to 12
[32:32] uh crossing points.
[32:34] And that's and that's absolutely
[32:36] necessary speed that they get.
[32:41] >> Absolutely. And and you can see one of
[32:43] those bridges quite literally rolling
[32:45] bridges
[32:47] the crew members are are waving at us
[32:49] here. I must say in addition to all the
[32:52] armor uh that is going through here and
[32:54] all the equipment that these guys carry,
[32:56] I have yet to meet a trooper out here
[32:58] who doesn't carry his own camera. And we
[33:00] have probably been photographed more
[33:02] than we are photographing.
[33:05] >> So So General Nash, continue.
[33:07] >> All right. Hold on. We have uh
[33:11] Yes. As a matter of fact, I've got uh if
[33:14] you'll swing the camera around, Alex,
[33:15] please. Uh this is Lieutenant Colonel
[33:18] Bayer. Uh Colonel, why don't you tell
[33:21] them what it is you do uh at the
[33:24] division here?
[33:25] >> Sir, I'm the uh G3 operations officer
[33:27] for the Third Infantry Division. And in
[33:29] in English, G3 means what?
[33:31] >> I'm the I'm in charge of uh planning,
[33:33] operations, training. Uh so what you see
[33:36] going on here today uh has been
[33:38] developed by uh my my shop.
[33:41] >> Tell us what is going on here. What are
[33:43] we seeing as and and how many different
[33:45] locations along the along the border
[33:48] between Kuwait and Iraq is this
[33:49] happening?
[33:50] >> Uh for the third infantry division,
[33:52] we've got uh eight separate crossings
[33:54] ongoing now that all look very similar
[33:56] to what you see uh here.
[33:59] uh with uh several brigade combat teams
[34:01] currently crossing into Iraq.
[34:04] >> Uh when exactly were the final
[34:06] preparations made here? In other words,
[34:07] when did you breach the last BM?
[34:09] >> The uh the BMS were breached uh
[34:12] yesterday uh completed during the night
[34:14] in the hours of darkness uh with uh no
[34:18] issues.
[34:19] >> Uh one of the great concerns of course
[34:21] as you head into Iraq has got to be the
[34:23] possibility of minefields. How do you
[34:26] handle those? Well, you in fact you see
[34:28] right here engineers crossing through
[34:30] the burm right now. Uh those are
[34:32] specially trained soldiers who can deal
[34:34] with uh breaching conventional and
[34:37] unconventional minefields. Uh so far
[34:39] I've had not have had no issues with uh
[34:42] minefields. Since you're in charge of
[34:44] planning, tell us how you plan for that.
[34:46] uh maybe you can sort of give us a word
[34:47] picture as we're watching some of these
[34:49] vehicles go by uh of how in fact a
[34:53] division like this manages to cross
[34:55] through a minefield with minimal and one
[34:58] would hope no harm to any of the
[35:00] American soldiers.
[35:01] >> Well, it all starts with uh
[35:02] intelligence. We've had a pretty good
[35:04] picture of Saddam and the Iraqi army
[35:06] over the last 12 years. Uh so we uh
[35:09] we've been able to determine how his
[35:12] forces were disposed and where he has
[35:15] developed u obstacles to uh to an attack
[35:20] and as a result of that then we apply uh
[35:24] well we try to avoid them to start with
[35:27] but if we can't avoid them we utilize
[35:29] the well-trained soldiers that you see
[35:31] here.
[35:32] >> Tell me about some of the equipment
[35:33] though. I'm particularly interested in
[35:34] that. I was describing it to Peter
[35:36] Jennings who's on with us right now. Uh
[35:40] you have something that is almost like a
[35:42] catapult that flings little bomblets
[35:44] over a minefield. Why don't you describe
[35:46] it in and somewhat more with somewhat
[35:48] more expertise? I
[35:49] >> I think what you're uh referring to is
[35:51] what we call the Miklick, which is a uh
[35:53] it's essentially a rocket uh that the
[35:56] engineers employ uh fires about 100
[35:59] meters in depth. uh large explosive
[36:01] charge that'll clear a lane 16 m wide uh
[36:05] and free it of surface laid mines. Also
[36:09] does a pretty good job of mines that are
[36:10] buried underneath the ground. Very very
[36:12] effective.
[36:13] >> You've been planning for this now for
[36:14] the better part of a year. Uh there
[36:16] there actually seems to be a smile of
[36:18] satisfaction on your face. I mean this
[36:19] is going pretty well for you. Uh
[36:21] >> so far it's going great. Uh that's due
[36:23] to the great soldiers you see passing
[36:25] through right now. Uh, but it's been a
[36:27] long road and we are ready to do our
[36:29] job.
[36:30] >> Colonel Bear, thank you very much.
[36:32] Appreciate it.
[36:32] >> Ted, can I get one more question?
[36:35] >> I was going to ask if we get one more
[36:36] question to the colonel, but maybe you
[36:37] know.
[36:37] >> Uh, well,
[36:38] >> that's okay. Maybe you know the answer.
[36:41] >> I'm I'm I'm afraid the the colonel is
[36:43] gone. Go ahead.
[36:43] >> Yeah. No, I saw that. Um, it's very
[36:46] interesting. By the way, the the United
[36:47] States has resisted joining the rest of
[36:49] the world in terms of meters and
[36:50] centimeters, but all the military uses
[36:52] meters instead of yards. But does he
[36:54] know how far in advance the minefields
[36:58] are at this point? Do they know what
[37:00] sort of opposition they found? How deep
[37:02] into Iraq at this point?
[37:07] >> Um I I mean I spoke to General Blunt
[37:10] just a couple of days ago about that
[37:12] very question. They don't seem to be
[37:14] terribly concerned about minefields,
[37:15] Peter. Uh I mean I suspect they may find
[37:18] some as we move deeper into the country.
[37:20] Uh but here uh as you heard from uh from
[37:25] Colonel Bayer uh they've had pretty good
[37:27] intelligence and they've been scoping
[37:29] this place out for a long long time and
[37:32] I think they're very confident of what
[37:33] they're going to find in the next few
[37:35] miles now. Just last night there was uh
[37:39] not exactly a tank battle because it was
[37:41] only the Iraqi tanks on one side uh and
[37:44] I suspect they were using the Apache
[37:45] Longbow helicopters on the other. Uh but
[37:48] they destroyed some 11 Iraqi tanks here
[37:50] last night. Apparently the Iraqi army
[37:53] had moved down uh a uh a tank company uh
[37:58] in an effort, I suppose, to try and
[38:00] impede this crossing. Uh but those tanks
[38:03] are no more.
[38:04] >> You mentioned that at the very beginning
[38:05] of your report. Do we know how deep into
[38:07] the country the 11 tanks were? And
[38:10] finally, at least for this report, are
[38:12] you free to go forward at any time you
[38:15] want now and join that column?
[38:21] Uh yes, we'll uh we'll be right in the
[38:24] middle of that uh right in the middle of
[38:25] that dust. And uh I can assure you,
[38:28] Peter, we'll try and pull in behind
[38:29] something small, but there isn't
[38:31] anything small out here.
[38:33] >> So, is it your inclination to go forward
[38:35] now and and check in with us a little
[38:36] later on?
[38:40] Uh well, what I'm going to try and do,
[38:42] General Blunt was going to go up in his
[38:44] uh in his helicopter. I don't know
[38:46] whether it's clear enough for him to get
[38:48] an overview, but uh if he was going to
[38:50] go up in his Blackhawk, I was going to
[38:52] go up with him and take a camera. And
[38:54] when I come down, we'll try and hook up
[38:55] with our satellite track again. And uh
[38:58] you can um you can be the appreciative
[39:00] audience while I bring you my vacation
[39:02] pictures.
[39:03] >> Ted, that's a great briefing.
[39:05] Congratulations to all of you. Thanks to
[39:06] Alex Brookner and to his wife, your
[39:08] sound recorders and all your unit there.
[39:10] And we'll check with you next time you
[39:12] have a chance.
[39:16] >> I hope that'll be in the next couple of
[39:17] hours. Thank you, Peter.
[39:18] >> Thanks, Ted. Ted Cppel with the Third
[39:20] Infantry Division in southern Iraq.
[39:23] Ted CPP, his uh his cameraman, Alex
[39:26] Brookner, and his wife Francesca.
[39:28] They've been a team for many years in
[39:29] many combat zones. and a light mood, one
[39:33] could say, with some fairness, I think,
[39:35] on the edge of the line of departure, as
[39:37] Ted uh describes to us in great detail
[39:40] the advance of the Third Infantry
[39:42] Division going across the border between
[39:44] Iraq and Kuwait. Now, we're reminded in
[39:48] the last little while of how difficult
[39:50] it is to have a to have a handle on the
[39:52] entire front. For example, we talked
[39:53] earlier to Mike Surere, uh, who was with
[39:56] the Marines, and they've been racing
[39:57] ahead. We actually now believe they're
[39:59] fairly deep into uh into Iraq and who
[40:02] knows how close they are to Baghdad.
[40:04] They've been very careful in the course
[40:06] of the last 20 some odd hours uh to be
[40:09] very circumspect about precisely where
[40:11] they are. But a short while ago, the
[40:13] Reuters news agencies reports that some
[40:15] US Marines invading Iraq were held up
[40:18] just 200 meters, it's yards roughly
[40:21] approximately into the country by Iraq
[40:23] anti-tank missiles and some small arms
[40:25] fire. So in in in one zone, if you will,
[40:28] or one pocket, you had Marines were able
[40:30] to race ahead without with virtually no
[40:31] opposition. Somewhere else on the line
[40:34] of departure or the line of advance, you
[40:35] had Marines who ran into it 200 yards
[40:37] in. And the uh the Reuters correspondent
[40:40] Adrien Croft, who is embedded with the
[40:42] Marines in this other column, said
[40:44] there's quite a big gunfight going on.
[40:45] They bailed out of their truck. The US
[40:47] called in British artillery, which is
[40:49] now raining down on Iraqi positions.
[40:51] This is a report of um no not very long
[40:55] ago, maybe uh 20 10 or 15 minutes ago
[40:58] while Ted Cppel was on. Uh he did not
[41:00] know whether the Marines had suffered
[41:01] any casualties and could not say exactly
[41:03] where the Marines had crossed into Iraq.
[41:05] The other Marine column went fairly far
[41:07] into the country, suffered no casualties
[41:09] and encountered some Iraqis along the
[41:12] way and managed to destroy some of their
[41:14] vehicles. ABC's Martha Ratitz, who has
[41:17] been following the Saddam Hussein story
[41:19] and trying to cover the Pentagon for us
[41:21] uh along with John McQuey this evening,
[41:23] has just gone away to take some
[41:25] muchdeserved rest. And she says that she
[41:27] walked through the Pentagon and talked
[41:29] to two military officials who thought
[41:30] that this campaign was proceeding very
[41:32] much on schedule and that they believed
[41:36] and you know what it's like at the
[41:37] beginning of a campaign. And you talk to
[41:39] one person who may be completely
[41:40] contradicted by the other person, but
[41:42] the two she talked to uh just a short
[41:44] while ago on her way to get some rest
[41:47] believe that these advances both of the
[41:49] Marines and the army will stop at a
[41:52] certain point and the and the air
[41:54] campaign phase which a lot of people
[41:56] thought would be would preede the actual
[41:58] ground invasion will go ahead. But
[42:00] everybody is still hanging on what has
[42:03] actually happened, if anybody knows, uh,
[42:06] to Saddam Hussein and perhaps his two
[42:08] sons during that attack, which the
[42:10] president gave the go-ahad for almost 30
[42:13] hours ago and sent the F-17s
[42:17] to drop a couple of huge bombs, not to
[42:19] mention 42 cruise missiles on that
[42:21] target in that compound in the southern
[42:25] sector of Baghdad. And whether or not
[42:27] Saddam Hussein was killed and or whether
[42:30] he was injured or whether he got away, a
[42:32] lot of what is going to happen next
[42:34] appears on the surface to hinge on that.
[42:39] We have several other people we want to
[42:40] talk to in uh in the remainder of this
[42:43] hour. Um he's been sitting watching our
[42:45] coverage for a while here now and I want
[42:47] to introduce him. His name is Dennis
[42:49] Holidayiday. Um he was uh in the late
[42:53] 1980s until he resigned his job in
[42:55] frustration. The United Nations
[42:58] humanitarian coordinator, I think I've
[43:00] got that correct, Mr. Holidayiday, for
[43:02] Iraq. You quit in frustration. You've
[43:04] been watching this unfold tonight. Given
[43:06] what you do for a living, what do you
[43:08] think?
[43:09] >> Well, Peter, I've I've been to Amasar. I
[43:11] know Bazra, of course, I know Baghdad
[43:13] and Babylon. This is a a great country
[43:15] and a great people. And it's a tragedy
[43:17] for me to sit here and see the
[43:19] destruction of Iraq. And I just hope
[43:21] that we don't go any further and that we
[43:24] can find a nonviolent solution. And
[43:25] maybe that is unfolding uh before our
[43:27] eyes. This is a tragedy as far as I'm
[43:29] concerned.
[43:30] >> Do you mean the destruction of Iraq by
[43:32] advancing American forces, which we're
[43:33] not altogether sure of, or by Saddam
[43:35] Hussein?
[43:35] >> I mean by advancing American forces.
[43:38] >> And do you have any sense of what they
[43:40] may have done along the way? And just to
[43:42] to to be argumentative with you here for
[43:44] the point, why is it not, as the
[43:46] administration argues, a liberating
[43:48] experience?
[43:49] >> Because I don't believe that uh the
[43:51] United States uh no matter how good the
[43:53] intentions of Mr. Bush are, uh have a
[43:56] right to go in and dominate and dictate
[43:58] to another country how it should be
[43:59] governed. The people of Iraq can make
[44:01] their own decisions. If we gave them
[44:03] back their lives, ended the sanctions,
[44:05] they would decide to change government
[44:07] as we've seen in other countries like
[44:09] the Philippines or Indonesia. We've
[44:11] denied the Iraqis their rights and
[44:13] that's something we need to think about.
[44:15] I
[44:15] >> I've heard it said many times before to
[44:17] stay on this point for just a second
[44:18] that the United States is not
[44:19] particularly popular in Iraq. Though it
[44:22] is often said that we'll be welcomed the
[44:24] United States forces will be welcomed
[44:25] with flowers in order to get out from
[44:27] under the yoke of Saddam Hussein in part
[44:29] because the US supported him staying in
[44:30] power for a long time and kept
[44:31] sanctions, economic sanctions on the
[44:33] Iraqis for all these years. How do you
[44:35] actually honestly think US forces will
[44:37] be received? Well, actually, you know,
[44:39] the years I lived in Iraq, 97 into 98,
[44:42] the end of 98, people are very
[44:44] sophisticated in in Baghdad, and they
[44:46] distinguish very clearly between the
[44:47] administration in Washington and the
[44:49] American people. Today, Americans are in
[44:51] Baghdad. They're very wellreceived. They
[44:53] have they received great courtesy.
[44:55] They're not held responsible. But it's
[44:57] the Washington administration and the
[44:59] policies of this country overseas and
[45:01] through the United Nations. That's where
[45:03] Iraqis have an argument and that's where
[45:05] they're critical. So do you think that
[45:07] the danger and this has been talked
[45:08] about before is perhaps on one part not
[45:11] the liberation but the possibility that
[45:13] the United States will stay for a long
[45:14] period of time deep in the Arab
[45:16] heartland.
[45:17] >> I think that is the concern of uh people
[45:19] throughout the Middle East. Recently I I
[45:21] was in North Africa. I was in Cairo and
[45:23] Jordan and in Turkey and there's great
[45:25] concern that the US is getting into
[45:27] something where it does not belong where
[45:29] it does not understand the complexity
[45:31] where it's not really adequately
[45:32] sympathy sympathetic to the Arab
[45:34] community judging by the neglect say of
[45:36] the Palestinians not quite familiar or
[45:39] even sympathetic to Islam and the
[45:41] Islamic way of looking at life and we're
[45:43] getting into something we don't
[45:44] understand and we're likely to make a
[45:45] large mess of it and it's not going to
[45:47] serve anybody's best interests including
[45:49] the Iraqis, the Palestinians, the
[45:51] Israelis. and and all the rest of us
[45:53] there and and here.
[45:54] >> Mr. Hal, I I I have the good fortune of
[45:56] spent a little bit of time, though not
[45:57] as expert as you, in the region. One of
[45:59] the things I've always found it hard was
[46:01] to make sort of universal judgments
[46:03] about the Arab world in part because the
[46:05] governments are so authoritarian and and
[46:07] people don't have an opportunity to
[46:08] express their point of view. Do you feel
[46:10] you've been able to get under the skin
[46:11] of the Iraqis to this extent? It's
[46:13] difficult because Iraqis have learned to
[46:15] be very cautious and uh one can only
[46:17] speak with the few that you make close
[46:20] have had close relationships with and I
[46:22] always worried about hearing too much
[46:23] and having people expose themselves but
[46:25] as I said they have a great affection
[46:27] for the United States and American
[46:28] things American American football but
[46:31] they were horrified by the foreign
[46:32] policies of Washington. I think
[46:33] throughout the Arab world, the people of
[46:36] the Arab community, you know, they're
[46:38] not anti-American, but they are they're
[46:39] anti-foreign policy and intervention.
[46:42] They want to run their own countries,
[46:43] and they're they're they're horrified
[46:45] that the Washington administration
[46:47] supports their governments, whether
[46:48] they're monarchies or dictators or
[46:50] whatever they are. They're not
[46:52] representative of American values,
[46:54] American freedom, all these great things
[46:55] that Mr. Bush talks about. They don't
[46:57] enjoy that in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or
[47:00] the Gulf States. Well, it doesn't
[47:01] behoove me, as you know, to speak to
[47:02] administration policy, but having lived
[47:04] in the region for a long time, I agree
[47:06] with you that the Arabs are certainly um
[47:08] not anti-American with any kind of
[47:10] universality at all. Let's change
[47:12] subjects for a second. Um I know that
[47:14] the international humanitarian relief
[47:17] aid community is deeply worried about a
[47:20] huge movement of displaced persons and
[47:23] refugees in the wake of of this kind of
[47:26] violence, which we know is going to be
[47:27] done in large in many parts of the
[47:29] country.
[47:31] The administration says it is quite well
[47:33] prepared to move aid into the country
[47:36] and to deal with displaced persons. Um,
[47:38] are you fairly confident or not about
[47:40] that?
[47:41] >> I wish I was, but I am I'm not
[47:43] confident. I think in terms of refugees
[47:45] around the borders of Iraq, whether
[47:47] they're in Iran or Jordan or Syria or
[47:49] Turkey, the international community, the
[47:51] high commissioner for refugees, the
[47:53] world food program, they're already
[47:55] gearing up their efforts. They're trying
[47:56] to get money to buy the produce, the
[47:58] tents and all to meet the other needs.
[48:00] But within the country, the IDPs, the
[48:01] internally displaced,
[48:02] >> the IDP, the Yeah. displaced persons
[48:05] internally. Okay.
[48:06] >> Right. And and the fact that we've now
[48:07] suspended the oil for food program, this
[48:09] means that the Iraqi families, the Iraqi
[48:12] people have food maybe for 6 weeks. Once
[48:14] that runs out, we're going to have
[48:16] starvation on our hands on Yes. Unless
[48:18] the US military really knows how to feed
[48:21] 23 million people. that that's a program
[48:24] that we ran in Iraq thanks to the
[48:25] efficiency of the Iraqi government
[48:27] supported by the UN and and other other
[48:30] elements of the international community.
[48:32] But the Iraqis know how to do it. We did
[48:34] not. They ran this program with 50,000
[48:36] agents throughout the country. I oversaw
[48:38] this myself. it this is a major task and
[48:42] if we if we fail to feed the Iraqi
[48:44] people and allow them to starve now when
[48:46] Saddam Hussein never allowed that to
[48:48] happen in happen in 30 years we have a
[48:51] huge responsibility to to face
[48:54] >> um again without delving too deeply into
[48:56] politics and just a couple more
[48:57] questions you refer to the efficiency of
[48:59] the Iraqi government
[49:02] >> um I think there are members of the
[49:03] administration who believe that one of
[49:05] the reasons to keep elements of the
[49:07] Iraqi administration in place is because
[49:09] it is an efficient government and will
[49:11] be able to do much of the work that
[49:12] otherwise an occupying army would have
[49:14] to do. Um I you're nodding so I gather
[49:17] you share that view.
[49:18] >> Yes. The people I know the technocrats
[49:20] in the Ministry of Trade or foreign
[49:22] affairs or communications or health or
[49:24] education. These are really good people.
[49:26] I mean they're it's not that they're
[49:27] trained in Europe or North America that
[49:29] makes them good. But they have
[49:30] experience. They're running a complex
[49:32] difficult country under difficult
[49:33] circumstances particularly under
[49:35] sanctions for 12 years. These are men
[49:37] and women that the the US occupation
[49:39] would be well advised to draw upon.
[49:42] >> So tell take 30 more seconds and I don't
[49:44] mean to put a time limit on you. Put 30
[49:46] more seconds and tell us what we should
[49:48] be watching for in terms of the Iraqi
[49:51] population in the days ahead.
[49:53] >> I think we should learn to listen to the
[49:55] people of Iraq. They know this country
[49:57] better than we will ever know it. They
[49:59] understand the relationships between the
[50:01] Kurds, between the Sunni, and between
[50:03] the Shia majority in the south. It's not
[50:06] as dangerous and as explosive as we
[50:08] sometimes are led to believe overseas.
[50:10] They work together now. They'll work
[50:12] together in the future. Baghdad has a
[50:14] large population of Kurds and of course
[50:16] Shia. Many of the ministries are mixed
[50:19] Christian, Shia, Sunni. We need to
[50:21] really understand Iraq and the people of
[50:23] Iraq know that already. If we give them
[50:26] support and give them confidence and
[50:28] trust them, they will be able to make
[50:30] this country into something that I think
[50:32] will be very effective for themselves,
[50:34] for the community in the Middle East,
[50:36] for all of us. And Iraq should and must
[50:38] and will play, I think, a big role in in
[50:40] international affairs again in the
[50:42] future if we allow them to go free and
[50:45] run this country as they know best.
[50:47] >> Well, in some respects, you sound like
[50:49] the Secretary of Defense talking about
[50:50] the Iraqis today, I must say.
[50:52] >> Well, I'm not sure that's quite a
[50:53] compliment to me.
[50:55] whatever it is, you sounded somewhat the
[50:56] same today. Mr. Holiday, I'm very
[50:57] grateful to you for for sitting around
[50:59] for an hour and and and very grateful to
[51:00] hear what you've said.
[51:01] >> Thank you.
[51:02] >> Nice to talk to someone who knows the
[51:03] country as well as you do. I hope you'll
[51:04] come back.
[51:05] >> Thank you very much.
[51:05] >> Dennis Holidayiday, uh the aid
[51:08] coordinator, the humanitarian
[51:09] coordinator, deputy assistant secretary
[51:12] general at the United Nations. I think I
[51:13] probably got that wrong, but a man who
[51:14] knows Iraq, as he said, he talked about
[51:16] Basra, he talked about Humaser, and
[51:18] these are the these are the targets
[51:20] tonight. The United States, the military
[51:22] doesn't want them to be targets. They
[51:24] are hoping very much, for example, as
[51:25] they got up towards Basra in the
[51:27] southern part of the city, which is a
[51:29] very largely Shiite Muslim community
[51:32] where they have felt let down by the
[51:34] United States in the past. But they
[51:36] certainly hope that the that the
[51:38] temperature the political attitude in
[51:40] the country in the city would enable the
[51:42] Marines at some point to pass around
[51:44] Bastan pass around Umaser and then go on
[51:47] and begin to focus very deeply uh on
[51:50] Baghdad and the centrality of the Saddam
[51:52] Hussein regime. Now I just want to look
[51:55] if I may at a couple notes. There hasn't
[51:57] been much contact between uh Iraqis and
[52:01] the US as we can tell today. But here's
[52:03] a dispatch in the New York Times for
[52:06] tomorrow morning by Steven Lee Meyers.
[52:08] Just one paragraph say American soldiers
[52:10] uh in one case doesn't tell precisely
[52:13] where it was, but it's with the third
[52:14] infantry division and it is in southern
[52:16] Iraq. So it's after this division
[52:17] crossed over the borders. American
[52:19] soldiers gathered their dead Iraqis uh
[52:22] placed the bodies in black bags and left
[52:24] them beside the road before moving on.
[52:26] And they also collected the dead
[52:27] soldiers belongings, one officer said,
[52:30] so that word could be passed to their
[52:32] families. That is actually the first
[52:35] human connection we've made with Iraqi
[52:37] casualties up until now. Though other
[52:40] Marines who have gone through, sorry,
[52:42] Marines who've gone through have said
[52:43] that in fact when they came in contact
[52:45] with Iraqi armor, this was light
[52:48] vehicles and tanks in one cases, they
[52:49] attacked them and and prevailed. I think
[52:52] I told you a moment ago that the Reuters
[52:54] news agency is reporting that the
[52:55] Marines got stopped a couple of hundred
[52:57] meters in at one point by small arms and
[52:59] by anti-tank fire. There is nothing that
[53:02] anybody knows of in the Iraqi military
[53:07] arsenal or inventory which is equal to
[53:10] anything that the United States has.
[53:12] Though our military analysts tell us
[53:14] time and time again that in some regards
[53:17] the Iraqis are particularly talented.
[53:19] They use the example of artillery. But
[53:21] one of the other fascinating things
[53:22] about today, and this is the latter
[53:24] hours of today particularly, has been
[53:26] whether or not some elements of the
[53:28] United States administration or the
[53:29] military command are somehow in contact
[53:32] with senior reaches of the Iraqi
[53:34] military because, well, largely because
[53:37] we don't precisely know what is going
[53:39] on. But let's check in first in
[53:40] Washington with ABC's John Cochran who's
[53:43] had the late watch Eastern time tonight
[53:45] on the administration. What, if
[53:47] anything, new do you know, John? Peter,
[53:50] the president's going to go up to Camp
[53:51] David tomorrow or today, depending on
[53:54] what uh time zone you're in. That in
[53:56] itself indicates the administration
[53:58] thinks things are going well. You know,
[53:59] there's some precedent for a President
[54:01] Bush going to Camp David immediately
[54:03] after a war has begun. The White House
[54:05] pay has paid very close attention to
[54:07] what happened in 1991 when the elder Mr.
[54:10] Bush went up to Camp David. Beyond that,
[54:12] they've looked at the press roll out for
[54:14] the war. Peter, I was told by a White
[54:16] House official a couple of weeks ago, he
[54:18] said, "You know, when the war began in
[54:19] January of 1991, Marlon Fitzwwater, the
[54:22] then President Bush's press secretary,
[54:24] walked out, said, "The war has begun.
[54:25] The president will address the nation
[54:27] shortly." Well, of course, Wednesday
[54:28] night, that's what happened. Ari Fleer
[54:30] walked out, said, "The war has begun.
[54:31] The president will address the nation
[54:33] shortly." One thing this president does
[54:35] doesn't have is quite the uh public
[54:37] approval rating. You mentioned earlier
[54:39] this new ABC News poll, Peter. The elder
[54:41] President Bush had an 80% approval
[54:43] rating. This Bush has a 65% approval
[54:46] rating. That's still pretty good. And of
[54:48] course, the discrepancy obviously has to
[54:50] do with the fact that the elder Mr. Bush
[54:52] had a coalition and not just a coalition
[54:54] of people who say they support the war,
[54:56] but people who are actually fighting in
[54:57] the war in this war. There are only two
[54:59] allies fighting with the United States.
[55:01] As you know, Peter
[55:02] >> John, I wonder if you noticed today, as
[55:04] I did, that the various administration
[55:06] spokesman, certainly this is true of the
[55:07] president spokesman, Mr. Fleer um uh
[55:12] went out of their way to talk about the
[55:14] coalition. At one point, Ari Fleer said,
[55:15] you know, this represents 1.8 billion
[55:17] people of various nationalities around
[55:19] the country. Do you think the
[55:20] administration is self-conscious about
[55:21] this?
[55:22] >> Well, I'd say that they're very
[55:23] defensive about it. He even talked about
[55:24] their gross uh gross national product. I
[55:28] how much how much goods these countries
[55:30] turn out. Of course, they're defensive.
[55:32] He talked about over 40 countries. Well,
[55:34] you're talking about uh only three
[55:36] countries though supplying troops and
[55:38] some of these countries aren't even
[55:40] willing to say that they're partners.
[55:41] Some are silent partners. Peter,
[55:43] >> well, okay, John, thanks very much. It
[55:45] it is similarly true for example that uh
[55:48] that in let's take two examples. Let's
[55:50] take well let's take three examples
[55:51] right in the Middle East itself. Um, we
[55:54] believe, I think, based on experience
[55:57] and and intelligent information that the
[55:59] Syrians, um, no great friend of the
[56:01] United States particularly, have been
[56:02] quiescent in this and are not deeply
[56:05] profoundly upset. I'm talking about the
[56:06] Syrian leadership now by what is
[56:07] happening in Iraq. And we know that
[56:09] young King Abdullah of Jordan has made
[56:12] it very clear today by how quickly he
[56:14] was prepared to step on anti-war
[56:17] demonstrations in his capital, Aman, is
[56:20] very well disposed to the United States.
[56:22] He is a king. So the country is run on a
[56:24] pretty autocratic basis. In Egypt,
[56:26] President Mubarak, who as somebody
[56:28] pointed out earlier today and pointed
[56:29] out many times, gets as much aid as any
[56:31] other country in the region except
[56:33] Israel. Um
[56:35] uh is is very much in favor of what is
[56:39] happening and has gone public to the
[56:41] extent of blaming Saddam Hussein for
[56:42] getting himself in this thing, but did
[56:44] permit a large anti-American uh anti-war
[56:47] demonstration in in Cairo today. again
[56:50] uh Husti Mubarak the Egyptian president
[56:52] another autocrat I have all sorts of
[56:54] democratic institutions in Egypt but Mr.
[56:56] Mubarak unfortunately from an Egyptian
[56:58] point of view still has the keys to many
[57:00] of them. We haven't talked very much
[57:01] about Israel today. Um and in some
[57:04] respects that is a huge relief to
[57:07] anybody deeply interested in the anybody
[57:09] interested in the country period because
[57:10] at the beginning of the Gulf War you
[57:12] recall that the Iraqi forces from the
[57:14] western desert of Iraq set off any
[57:16] number of Scuds which were directed at
[57:18] various places. as they fell in Hifa and
[57:20] in Tel Aviv uh right on the
[57:21] Mediterranean coast on the western edge
[57:23] of Israel which is already a very small
[57:26] country and so there was enormous
[57:28] anxiety about whether or not at the
[57:30] beginning of this campaign it's not over
[57:32] of course at the beginning of this
[57:33] campaign there might be another attack
[57:35] by the Iraqis on the Israelis and the
[57:37] potential was whether or not he would
[57:39] use with artillery shells or Scud
[57:41] missiles chemical or biological weapons
[57:44] that has not been the case prime
[57:46] minister said yesterday I think he lose
[57:47] a bit track of time that he believed
[57:49] there was only a 1% chance that the
[57:52] Iraqis would attack Israelis and Ariel
[57:54] Chiron said and the Israelis were 100%
[57:58] defended. He's referring to both the
[57:59] Israeli and the American anti-missile
[58:02] missile systems which are deployed on
[58:05] the eastern end of Israel. Um, excuse
[58:09] me. Oh, my apologies. I'm talking too
[58:12] much here. This is ABC News continuing
[58:13] live coverage of the war with Iraq.
[58:25] I'm Peter Jennings at ABC News
[58:27] headquarters in New York, trying to keep
[58:29] you a breast of events that I cannot say
[58:32] are moving rapidly, but are certainly
[58:34] moving in a variety of different places.
[58:38] And one of the things we want to do at
[58:40] the top of every hour, it's now 1:00 in
[58:42] the morning in New York, 9:00 in the
[58:44] morning in Baghdad. Can we have a quick
[58:45] look at Baghdad before we go on? It's a
[58:48] pretty limited view at this point. I
[58:50] think that's the view outside the
[58:52] Palestine Hotel, but it may be outside
[58:55] the old Ministry of Information, which
[58:57] has been largely abandoned by the Iraqi
[59:00] officials in it because they thought it
[59:01] would be bombed. But it's a pretty
[59:03] limited view. And what you really want
[59:04] to look at here in downtown Baghdad at a
[59:07] little before 9:00 in the morning is the
[59:08] street because you see an occasional
[59:12] truck, an occasional car going the other
[59:15] way. We've heard no sound from the
[59:17] mosque itself. Uh there's a kind of both
[59:22] well actually there's more traffic on
[59:23] that road at the moment than we had
[59:24] anticipated in the last little while.
[59:26] But the secretary of defense said
[59:28] earlier today Iraqis they should stay
[59:30] home. They should stay away from work.
[59:32] uh they should stay away from any
[59:34] targets associated uh with the regime
[59:38] and at least looking out that particular
[59:41] window from another side I believe at
[59:42] the Palestine Hotel. This is pretty much
[59:44] in central Baghdad, a little more
[59:46] towards the west than towards the east.
[59:48] Um it is it is very quiet with only
[59:50] occasional vehicular traffic. Baghdad
[59:53] can be very crowded at the best of time
[59:56] with huge traffic jams everywhere. Any
[59:59] rate, to give you a review of where we
[60:01] are, as best we know, let's go to ABC's
[60:03] John Kenyonus, who brings us up to date
[60:05] on pretty much as much as we know over
[60:08] the last 24 hours.
[60:11] It's morning in Kuwait, but already a
[60:14] tense and anxious start of the day.
[60:16] Overnight, there were several air raid
[60:18] sirens indicating that Iraqi missiles
[60:21] may be flying across the border. All
[60:23] that kept the people of the small nation
[60:26] awake and on edge. In many ways, it's
[60:29] hard to believe that this war started
[60:32] just over a day ago. March 19th, 6:30
[60:36] p.m. in Washington. Unbeknownst to the
[60:38] world, behind closed doors at the White
[60:40] House, the moment of truth has arrived.
[60:43] An hour and a half before the ultimatum
[60:45] to Saddam is due to expire. Sudden word
[60:48] from CIA Director George Tenant. Ripe
[60:51] intelligence of a gathering of Iraq's
[60:53] top leadership at a specific location.
[60:56] And now the president makes a decision
[60:58] to launch. 9:33 p.m. in Washington, 5:33
[61:03] a.m. in Baghdad. Air raid sirens,
[61:06] tracers, and anti-aircraft fire in the
[61:09] misty morning light signal a surprise
[61:11] air attack.
[61:15] Within minutes, White House press
[61:17] secretary Ari Fleer confirms this is not
[61:20] just a case of jittery Iraqi nerves on
[61:23] the ground in Baghdad. The opening
[61:25] stages of the disarmament of the Iraqi
[61:27] regime have begun. The president will
[61:29] address the nation at 10:15.
[61:32] >> The attack is so unexpected that even
[61:34] troops of the army's third infantry
[61:36] division are taken by surprise as they
[61:39] greet the dawn in Kuwait along the Iraqi
[61:42] frontier.
[61:43] >> This did come as a surprise. It even
[61:45] came as a surprise to the men of the
[61:47] Third Infantry Division, most of whom
[61:49] have now deployed to pre-ordained
[61:52] positions up just short of We