NBC News - Iraq War begins - 2003-03-19 - 9:32 p.m. (E)

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Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:00] thinks about that gun that supposedly

[0:01] belonged to my client.

[0:03] >> We can't move to exclude evidence before

[0:05] we even

[0:10] >> This is an NBC News special report.

[0:13] Target Iraq. Here is Tom Brokoff.

[0:18] Good evening everyone. It has been an

[0:20] evening of tense expectations. The 48

[0:23] hour deadline for Saddam Hussein to

[0:25] leave Iraq has expired about an hour and

[0:28] 30 minutes ago now. And we have reports

[0:30] that American war plananes could be in

[0:32] the air. We're going to go to Peter

[0:34] Arnett who is now in Baghdad where it is

[0:37] early Thursday morning and air raid

[0:39] sirens are sounding across the capital

[0:41] city. Peter, what are you hearing and

[0:42] what are you seeing?

[0:47] >> I don't have contact,

[0:51] can you hear me? Yes. Go ahead, Peter.

[0:54] >> Yeah. Hello, Tom. I don't know if you

[0:56] can hear me, but there's sirens sounding

[0:59] all over Baghdad as of this moment. It's

[1:01] about an hour before dawn here. Siren

[1:05] sounding, but no sounds of missiles or

[1:07] anti-aircraft fire.

[1:09] This could be a pre-warning of an

[1:12] attack. No sign of any attack, but it

[1:15] could be a pre-warning. The sirens have

[1:17] now died down. In the Gulf War 12 years

[1:19] ago, there was a similar series of

[1:22] sirens before the actual bombing began.

[1:25] >> And Peter, what about the conditions on

[1:27] the ground in Baghdad? Uh, were you

[1:30] seeing any overt signs of anti-aircraft

[1:33] defenses being moved

[1:34] >> under the first anti-aircraft fire I am

[1:36] seeing in the sky now directly in front

[1:38] of me, Tom? and the and the eastern side

[1:41] of the city. Scattered scattered fire

[1:44] not very visible with the first

[1:46] scattered fire and the city itself. A

[1:48] few police cars zooming through the

[1:51] streets. The lights of the city are

[1:52] still on. Other than that, no activity,

[1:55] but it's really get a sense here of an

[1:58] impending attack.

[2:00] >> All right, let's go to uh NBC Jim

[2:02] Mclashesky who's at the Pentagon

[2:04] tonight. We're going to keep that

[2:05] picture of Baghdad live up for you about

[2:08] an hour before dawn there. Jim

[2:10] Mclashesky at the Pentagon. What can you

[2:12] tell us?

[2:13] >> Well, Tom, uh earlier this evening, uh

[2:15] US sources told NBC News that uh it

[2:18] appeared that as many as a dozen B-52s

[2:21] had taken off from England. Now, the

[2:23] cover story apparently uh out of that

[2:26] region was that they were on some kind

[2:28] of training mission or or some unrelated

[2:30] mission to the uh uh possible uh

[2:33] invasion of Iraq. Uh but we were told

[2:37] that it appeared that those bombers were

[2:39] indeed headed toward Iraq. US military

[2:42] officials are also saying tonight uh

[2:45] that uh that what we may be seeing

[2:48] tonight could in fact be what they call

[2:51] preliminary air strikes or prepping the

[2:53] battlefield. It was thought that at some

[2:55] time uh the US military would launch uh

[2:59] an increased number of air strikes uh

[3:01] probably at some of the integrated

[3:03] missile defense systems in an attempt to

[3:06] take them down uh before there was

[3:09] actual any actual invasion. Uh as as of

[3:12] now, as we heard just a moment ago, the

[3:14] air raid sirens in Baghdad, uh it it is

[3:18] unclear as to uh how extensive uh any US

[3:22] military operation uh may be at this

[3:25] time.

[3:26] >> All right, thanks very much NBC's Jim

[3:28] Miloski at the Pentagon. It's also worth

[3:30] noting that the president and Vice

[3:32] President Cheney remain at the White

[3:34] House tonight. Reporters who were there

[3:35] were told to stand by, not to go home.

[3:38] That didn't mean that there was any

[3:40] action that was imminent. But let's go

[3:42] back to Peter Arnett now.

[3:43] >> Hey, I got you.

[3:44] >> Uh Peter, what can you tell us about

[3:46] what you're seeing now and what looks

[3:48] like pre-dawn skies over Baghdad?

[3:51] >> Well, what we have the city has returned

[3:53] to calm, Tom. 5 minutes ago, a series of

[3:56] loud sirens across the city, followed by

[3:59] some scattered anti-aircraft fire to the

[4:01] east of the city. Then an explosion in

[4:03] the center could well have been an

[4:05] anti-aircraft gun firing. Now we're back

[4:07] to normal again. There is a there are

[4:10] there are police cars zooming about the

[4:12] town, but nothing right now. But clearly

[4:15] this is a city on alert and waiting.

[4:17] Tom.

[4:18] >> All right. Thanks very much. Uh Peter

[4:19] Arnett, who is a correspondent for

[4:21] National Geographic Explorer on

[4:23] assignment for NBC News. He was there of

[4:25] course in 1991 for CNN. As we look at

[4:29] the Iraqi capital, uh this has been an

[4:33] evening that everyone has been waiting

[4:36] to arrive. Uh because the president gave

[4:39] Saddam Hussein and his family 48 hours

[4:41] on Monday. In a dramatic and sobering

[4:44] announcement from the White House that

[4:46] expired tonight at 8 earlier, Uday, the

[4:49] president's uh eldest son in Iraq, said

[4:52] that they had no intention whatsoever of

[4:54] leaving. Throughout the day, we heard

[4:57] from Iraqi officials, the Minister of

[5:00] Information, Tariq Aziz, who's the

[5:02] deputy prime minister, who appeared in

[5:04] military uniform and with a pistol,

[5:06] saying that he's ready to fight after

[5:08] there had been reports that he may be

[5:09] trying to escape the country. He said

[5:11] that was simply not true. Also scenes

[5:13] from the Iraqi Parliament, people

[5:16] chanting and cheering, saying that they

[5:17] were prepared to die for their great

[5:20] uncle, as Saddam Hussein likes to be

[5:22] called. Um at any at any moment let's go

[5:25] to the White House now and

[5:27] uh at any moment we'll be hearing from

[5:30] the White House and Ari Fleer who is the

[5:32] president's spokesman. As I said earlier

[5:35] the correspondents were told to stand by

[5:38] not to go home to remain flexible.

[5:40] There's something called a lid. The lid

[5:43] was not on at the White House tonight.

[5:46] That meant that there could be

[5:47] additional news. But no one was talking.

[5:50] Vice President Cheney is in the White

[5:52] House with the president. Defense

[5:53] Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the

[5:56] chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

[5:57] Richard Meyers were at the White House

[5:59] earlier and they went back across the

[6:02] river to the Pentagon. I'm joined here

[6:04] in the studios as we continue to keep

[6:05] this picture up by General Barry

[6:07] McAffrey who led an armored assault

[6:10] during Operation Desert Storm. uh

[6:12] General Mike Short who is a a veteran of

[6:16] a lot of tactical aircraft and ran the

[6:18] bombing uh campaign over Kosovo and Vice

[6:20] Admiral Dennis McInn who was the former

[6:23] commander of the USS Ranger and a

[6:25] carrier pilot. Let's begin General

[6:27] McAffrey with you about timing. Um this

[6:31] would be an unusual time. Generally we

[6:32] make these strikes in the middle of the

[6:34] night if in fact something is going on

[6:36] now. Are you surprised that it could

[6:38] come during daylight hours? I think this

[6:40] would be one of the most unusual things

[6:42] I've ever encountered. You can't get

[6:45] strategic surprise. You can't get

[6:46] operational surprise. So, if they're

[6:48] actually doing this, then they will

[6:49] absolutely have stunned the Iraqis. Not

[6:52] a one of them would assume this would

[6:54] happen just prior to dawn. Uh

[6:56] overwhelming surprise.

[6:58] >> And Mike Short, what would be your

[7:00] concerns as an Air Force commander of

[7:02] flying these kinds of missions during

[7:04] daylight, which we're about to see

[7:05] there?

[7:06] >> Tom, I would feel I'm giving up the

[7:07] advantage I've got. I own the night

[7:10] stealth assets. The B2 and the 117.

[7:12] We've seen the pictures of downtown

[7:13] Baghdad. The the sun is coming up. 117s,

[7:17] B2s will be visible. I'd not want to

[7:19] give that up.

[7:20] >> Is there is it possible that what we're

[7:22] doing here is prepping the battlefield,

[7:24] as Jim McClashevski said, and this is

[7:26] not the first wave of what will be the

[7:29] opening stage of the war. Tom, it's

[7:31] certainly possible, but we have we have

[7:33] been told so many times, shock and awe.

[7:36] To just bomb a few targets and prep the

[7:38] battlefield and then back off for 14

[7:41] hours while we wait for darkness is not

[7:43] my idea of shock and awe.

[7:45] >> And Admiral McInn, you've been both a

[7:47] carrier pilot and a commander of a of a

[7:50] carrier. What about from the Navy's

[7:51] point of view? It's a long way to fly

[7:53] from the Gulf up to Baghdad for one

[7:54] thing.

[7:55] >> It is, but uh thank goodness for the

[7:57] great jointness of Navy and Air Force.

[7:59] We have great tanker support. Tom, I

[8:01] think if this is the beginning of the

[8:03] campaign, it's probably because of the

[8:05] investments we made in technology,

[8:07] specifically standoff weapons, and their

[8:09] accuracy and their rapid targeting since

[8:11] the Gulf War.

[8:13] >> All right, let's go to NBC Jim Mlashesky

[8:15] who's been listening to all of this and

[8:17] he is getting some information as well.

[8:20] >> Peter Arnett in Baghdad. Let's go to

[8:22] Peter.

[8:22] >> Tigris River around the presidential

[8:25] palace.

[8:28] This is clearly an indication the Iraqis

[8:32] are under the impression

[8:35] that they're under attack.

[8:38] Here again, you can hear the audio of

[8:40] that anti-aircraft fire.

[8:44] The Iraqis do have surfaceto-air

[8:46] missiles uh from Soviet design system,

[8:50] SAM twos, threes, eights. They have much

[8:53] anti-aircraft act of machine guns,

[8:57] heavier,

[9:00] heavier devices to fire into the sky. As

[9:03] of yet, no bombing, but intense fire

[9:07] that we're hearing right now. Mainly

[9:10] this fire is on the see the southern out

[9:13] southern part of the city. Nothing in

[9:15] the center of the city yet, but the

[9:16] southern extremities of the city.

[9:20] Not much fire here.

[9:22] >> I see some reflected light as well that

[9:24] looks like it could be some kind of

[9:26] ordinance exploding on the ground as

[9:28] well as the AAA fire that you're talking

[9:30] about. Are you seeing any of that,

[9:31] Peter?

[9:34] >> I'm not getting a very good signal from

[9:36] uh good audio from you, Tom, if you're

[9:39] if you're listening to me.

[9:41] But now, very similar scenes from the

[9:44] Gulf War of 1991 and the bombing of

[9:48] 1998. traces going into the sky.

[9:52] Clearly preparation, the radar

[9:54] presumably the Iraqis have picked up

[9:56] something moving

[9:58] towards this location and they're firing

[10:01] to intercept it

[10:03] >> if they can.

[10:03] >> All right, Peter, I'm just going to

[10:05] continue to talk and then when I call

[10:07] for you, I'll ask you to come in as best

[10:08] you can, even if you're only hearing me

[10:11] faintly. We want to remind everyone that

[10:13] uh we do expect now, I'm told, to hear

[10:15] from the president before too long uh at

[10:18] the White House. Uh NBC Jim Klashesky,

[10:21] as you look at these pictures, tell us

[10:23] what you're hearing at the Pentagon.

[10:25] >> Well, Tom, uh we're getting somewhat of

[10:26] a confused picture uh from various

[10:29] sources in the US government and the US

[10:31] military. Uh what we're told, Tom, uh is

[10:34] that whatever is planned tonight,

[10:36] whether it's prepping the battlefield or

[10:38] whether it's the the start of the war,

[10:40] uh that the the initial attack uh that

[10:43] we're talking about tonight would

[10:45] apparently involve small numbers. That

[10:48] was that was the description given to us

[10:50] a short time ago ago. Small numbers of

[10:53] uh of possible B-52s, possibly stealth

[10:56] fighters, even possibly cruise missiles.

[11:00] Uh there were still some people as as of

[11:03] just a short time ago here in the

[11:05] Pentagon who were describing this still

[11:07] as prepping the battlefield. Now uh now

[11:10] I heard from our panel of experts early

[11:12] uh that this is not shock and awe. But I

[11:15] can tell you that we were also advised

[11:18] very early on uh that any invasion of

[11:21] Iraq by the US would be totally

[11:23] unconventional. A lot of this would be

[11:25] unexpected and there were there were

[11:28] times we are told uh when the US would

[11:30] actually uh launch airplanes at Iraq in

[11:35] in which uh it it it in fact may not be

[11:38] the start of the war uh but just an

[11:40] attempt uh to light up the Iraqi air

[11:43] defense systems, see what they've got uh

[11:46] and and keep the Iraqis offguard. Uh now

[11:49] at this point it is totally unclear uh

[11:52] as to what the Iraqis were shooting at

[11:54] exactly uh but we were told much uh

[11:57] earlier this evening that the air

[12:00] strikes if there are air strikes against

[12:02] Baghdad tonight uh would involve small

[12:05] numbers of US military aircraft and

[12:07] possibly cruise missiles.

[12:10] >> Uh thanks very much NBC Jim McClashesky.

[12:12] What about the role of the B-52 here

[12:14] General Short? Uh Tom, the B-52 is our

[12:17] cruise missile carrier. It carries 20 uh

[12:20] conventional air launch cruise missiles.

[12:22] This is the heavy 2,000 lb warhead, the

[12:25] penetrator and the deep warhead

[12:27] capability. So we may be shooting

[12:30] maybe 200 of these things at deep and

[12:33] and and buried targets, taking down some

[12:35] radars, going after such command control

[12:36] nodes, and again, as Jim said, lighting

[12:39] up the lighting up their radar, see what

[12:40] they do.

[12:41] >> We're going to about to learn a lot

[12:42] more. Here's Ari Fleer at the White

[12:43] House. and stages of the disarmament of

[12:45] the Iraqi regime have begun. The

[12:47] president will address the nation at

[12:49] 10:15.

[12:53] >> Question.

[12:54] >> Well, the war is underway, but it is not

[12:56] underway in in a manner in which we

[12:58] anticipated. We were told that there

[13:00] would be shock and awe. Obviously,

[13:03] this is part of a new way of waging war

[13:06] against Iraq. Um, we have an air

[13:10] campaign that appears to be underway

[13:12] tonight. Um, AAA fire has been seen and

[13:15] heard in the skies over Baghdad, but we

[13:17] have not seen any of that violent

[13:20] explosive firepower that we witnessed in

[13:22] 1991, but it could be just moments away.

[13:25] If the president is coming out at 10:15,

[13:27] I don't think he's coming out to talk

[13:29] about the lights being on in the city of

[13:30] Baghdad. So, there's a good deal going

[13:33] on there right now in the skies over

[13:35] Iraq and in that theater. What it is

[13:37] exactly, we don't know yet, but we'll

[13:39] invite you to stay with us as we watch

[13:41] these pictures of the capital city. And

[13:43] let's go to Peter Arnett now, who is

[13:45] standing by uh at a hotel room window

[13:48] looking outside and watching and

[13:50] listening. Peter, any more signs of

[13:53] anti-aircraft fire?

[13:55] >> Yes. Well, about 30 seconds ago, Tom,

[13:57] the sounds of several planes flying over

[14:00] the city and what seemed to be

[14:02] explosions in the distance out out out,

[14:05] excuse me, outskirts of Baghdad. To the

[14:08] north, we're hearing more anti-aircraft

[14:10] fire, that may be where the actual

[14:12] location of that bombing was, if it

[14:14] indeed was bombing. That high-flying

[14:17] airplanes we heard just now, about a

[14:19] minute ago, several of them over

[14:21] Baghdad.

[14:22] >> All right, thanks, Peter. Right now,

[14:23] it's back to being relatively quiet.

[14:25] >> All right. Thanks, Peter. I I think it's

[14:27] worth pointing out again that uh in some

[14:29] of the pictures that we were seeing

[14:30] earlier that you probably couldn't see

[14:32] there was reflected light in the

[14:34] distance. It looked like something was

[14:35] going off on the ground.

[14:37] >> It could have been a bomb of some kind.

[14:39] Uh NBC Jim McClashesky at the Pentagon

[14:41] now. Jim, you have additional

[14:43] information for us.

[14:44] >> Okay. Bye.

[14:46] >> He's on the phone. He just said goodbye

[14:47] to someone.

[14:48] >> Tom, I was just on the phone a second

[14:50] ago. Uh here's what's in the package

[14:52] tonight. Uh there are going to be small

[14:54] numbers as I said earlier, F-17 stealth

[14:58] fighters, uh the dozen or so B-52

[15:00] bombers out of England, and uh also a

[15:04] package, probably a small package of sea

[15:07] launched cruise missiles uh from US

[15:10] ships in the Persian Gulf. We're told

[15:12] tonight that there will be two sets of

[15:15] attacks tonight. uh and they're both

[15:18] against sets of leadership targets

[15:21] inside Baghdad. Not certain exactly what

[15:24] those leadership targets are, but we can

[15:27] expect two bombing runs uh with F-17

[15:30] stealth fighters, the B-52s and C launch

[15:33] cruise missiles uh against leadership

[15:35] targets uh clearly underway uh at this

[15:38] time.

[15:40] >> All right, thanks very much. NBC Jim

[15:42] Mlashesky watching all this as well. the

[15:45] man who was in charge of the American

[15:47] war in 1990 1991 General Norman

[15:49] Schwarzkov. General, is it possible that

[15:52] what they have here is a plan underway

[15:54] to try to take out Saddam Hussein and

[15:56] the members of his leadership with some

[15:58] surgical strikes? Pause for a moment and

[16:01] then see what happens.

[16:07] I thought we had General Norman

[16:08] Schwarzoff, but perhaps we don't.

[16:10] >> You do. I'm on.

[16:11] >> Okay.

[16:12] >> Yeah. I I just heard just only part of

[16:14] the report uh that that Jim had gotten

[16:17] from the military.

[16:18] >> Well, let me let me take you through it

[16:19] if I can. Then Jim was saying that we're

[16:21] going to have a small package tonight of

[16:23] F-17s, B-52s, a smaller number, cruise

[16:26] missiles, two sets of targets, primarily

[16:29] leadership targets that are in Baghdad

[16:32] and that it will come in two waves. We

[16:34] know that the president's going to come

[16:35] on at 10:15, so the war effectively is

[16:38] underway. Is it possible that they're

[16:40] thinking that they can take out the

[16:42] leadership in surgical strikes, pause,

[16:45] hoping that the country then will rally

[16:47] around the United States or that the

[16:50] other defenses will collapse.

[16:52] >> Yeah. Well, you as you can understand

[16:53] this is completely opposite what we did

[16:55] in Desert Storm. We in fact masked all

[16:57] of our forces and came screaming in at

[17:00] at at 2:30 in the morning with

[17:01] everything we had. So, this is a very

[17:03] very interesting tactic and and it seems

[17:05] like uh just as you say uh they maybe

[17:08] they hoped to to really surprise some of

[17:10] the leadership targets and and catch

[17:12] them before the onslaught happened and

[17:13] they all went underground.

[17:15] >> Barry McAffrey, you're here as well.

[17:17] What would you think of that kind of an

[17:19] approach?

[17:20] >> Well, you know, I I'm actually in shock

[17:22] and awe myself. I can't imagine, you

[17:24] know, we've been talking about this for

[17:25] three weeks, so they certainly surprised

[17:27] me and I think these other two flag

[17:29] officers. uh that may be exactly what

[17:31] they're up to. Uh you know, the intel

[17:33] has been trying to find the leadership

[17:34] targets for the last 30 days. Huge

[17:37] effort to vacuum up data and if this is

[17:40] what we're up to and it works, it would

[17:42] be a terrific gift to the Iraqi people.

[17:45] Uh not only that and we don't know

[17:47] exactly what is going on here but the

[17:49] fact is it would be a political stroke

[17:51] as well because it would mean that there

[17:54] would be a minimal amount of civilian

[17:57] loss and it would be that the target is

[18:00] the Iraqi leadership and Saddam Hussein

[18:02] that it's not war against the Muslim

[18:04] population of Iraq. But as I say we

[18:07] don't know exactly what is going on. We

[18:09] only know that there are planes in the

[18:10] air, that Baghdad apparently has been

[18:13] hit at least uh on the periphery of it

[18:16] and maybe some of those leadership

[18:17] targets are out there and that some fire

[18:20] has been u sent off as well. Um Mike

[18:24] Short, tell us a little more about what

[18:25] other kinds of assets that we have

[18:27] behind these F-17s and the B-52s and the

[18:30] cruise missiles that Jim Mlvsky talked

[18:33] about. Well, Tom, I think they're

[18:35] probably being supported by jamming

[18:36] aircraft, EA6Bs that would jam the radar

[18:39] systems and and prevent them from

[18:41] acquiring the targets if they were able

[18:43] to do that. Probably also uh F-16s and

[18:46] F-18s that shoot missiles that attack

[18:49] radar sites, the harm missile, and I

[18:51] think you'll probably see that escorting

[18:53] these aircraft in. So, this will not

[18:55] simply be the strike assets that Jim

[18:57] talked about. I think there'll be

[18:58] support assets with them to get them in

[19:00] and get them out.

[19:01] >> All right. Well, we've just gotten a

[19:02] report, in fact, from some of our

[19:04] sources that a US official has told NBC

[19:06] News that radar jamming and other

[19:08] electronic attack aircraft began

[19:10] operations at 9:31 Eastern time about 20

[19:13] minutes ago. That's just about the time

[19:15] that we saw the planes over Baghdad. The

[19:17] initial strikes will include a

[19:18] combination of B1 bombers, B2s, B-52s,

[19:21] air and sea launched cruise missiles,

[19:23] standoff weapons, F-17s attacking key

[19:26] nodes of air defense, and national

[19:28] command in and around Baghdad. and also

[19:31] in the south which is where the ground

[19:32] war is going to begin. Is that in

[19:35] keeping with what you would expect?

[19:36] Admiral McInn,

[19:37] >> it is the timing is a little bit off. I

[19:39] share a little bit of that shock and awe

[19:41] that General McAffrey mentioned before,

[19:43] but I think that's the whole point of it

[19:45] that uh we shouldn't fight the war we

[19:47] fought 12 years ago and uh we should go

[19:50] after their weaknesses.

[19:51] >> And we are fighting this in a

[19:53] supercharged political context. After

[19:55] all, the United States is out there with

[19:57] Great Britain with a lot of people being

[19:58] very critical of the idea that the

[20:00] United States is going to war and what

[20:02] many see as a preemptive strike. Others

[20:04] going so far as to say this is the act

[20:06] of an imperial nation. So, there are

[20:08] political sensitivities that are going

[20:10] to be involved here as well. Let's let's

[20:13] go to NBC's Campbell Brown now, who is

[20:15] at the White House. Campbell, what are

[20:17] you hearing there?

[20:18] >> Tom, we are expecting, as you know, to

[20:20] hear from the president at 10:15 Eastern

[20:22] time. We expect that that address will

[20:24] be from the Oval Office. That's what

[20:26] officials had originally said is they

[20:28] have been planning this. Uh this is in a

[20:31] speech that they have been working on

[20:32] for some time now. It was described to

[20:34] us as being very similar to how the

[20:37] president addressed the nation after

[20:39] military strikes began in Afghanistan.

[20:41] You'll recall it was about noon time on

[20:43] a Sunday the strikes began. The

[20:45] president spoke to the nation about an

[20:46] hour after that. He is going to try to

[20:49] convey to the American people tonight.

[20:51] Uh first of all telling them that the

[20:52] strikes are underway what's involved,

[20:55] but also about the sacrifice involved.

[20:57] It will be the first time he's really

[20:59] talked about that at greater length than

[21:01] we heard in his original speech. Um so

[21:04] that's going to be more of a focus,

[21:05] especially given in mind what we're

[21:07] hearing from officials over and over

[21:08] again that this as opposed to

[21:10] Afghanistan is going to be a much more

[21:12] conventional war, but also a much more

[21:15] dangerous war. And uh in terms of

[21:18] casualties, now there have been a lot of

[21:20] indications that something was coming

[21:22] this evening. Um the president working

[21:24] the phones most of the afternoon to call

[21:26] world leaders to put them on notice that

[21:28] military action may be imminent. In

[21:30] addition, all the top military

[21:32] commanders were here with the president,

[21:34] Secretary Rumsfeld, General Meyers until

[21:37] late this evening. Uh Vice President

[21:39] Cheney is still here at the White House,

[21:40] remained here all evening. All of the

[21:42] key staff were uh with the president in

[21:45] the Oval Office until late in the

[21:46] evening. So, no one uh was getting any

[21:49] sense that they should be leaving work

[21:50] tonight. There was definitely a feeling

[21:52] around the White House that something

[21:53] was going on. Um I think the timing, as

[21:56] as you've heard other people say, caught

[21:58] many people by surprise because the

[21:59] expectation is always there that this

[22:01] would happen in the evening. But uh the

[22:04] president has always conveyed his

[22:06] impatience with uh the UN and with the

[22:10] lengthy process that went into disarming

[22:12] Saddam. So it follows with what the

[22:15] president has always said that the

[22:16] moment this deadline passed, he would be

[22:18] ready to take action immediately. Tom,

[22:20] >> thank you very much. NBC's Campbell

[22:22] Brown. There has been so much talk in

[22:23] this administration about the United

[22:25] States reorganizing itself to fight the

[22:27] special wars of the 21st century, the

[22:29] war on terrorism, rogue states with

[22:31] weapons of mass destruction. That

[22:33] certainly was the case in Afghanistan in

[22:35] which we saw special operations officers

[22:37] on horseback riding to battle with a

[22:40] coalition that was put together with

[22:41] millions of dollars delivered by CIA

[22:43] agents and CIA agents involved as well.

[22:46] We have been told in the past several

[22:47] days that CIA operatives at least are in

[22:50] the south of Iraq where they are

[22:53] spreading money around and encouraging

[22:55] the regular army units to lay down their

[22:57] weapons to put them in a place and to

[23:00] point them in the right direction and

[23:01] then go to their barracks and stay just

[23:03] us there. So what we're seeing here may

[23:05] be the first stages of another form of

[23:08] unexpected and unconventional warfare.

[23:11] US officials are telling NBC News

[23:13] tonight that the attacks earlier today

[23:15] are intended to flush out the Iraqi

[23:18] leadership to provide a confusing

[23:20] picture of the main attack which will

[23:22] come later possibly tomorrow and whether

[23:25] that comes uh all at once with heavier

[23:28] air attacks and ground attacks. We don't

[23:30] know for sure. Let's Here's the tape of

[23:33] what was going on in Baghdad earlier.

[23:35] You can see anti-aircraft fire modest by

[23:38] Baghdad standards really.

[23:42] and air raid sirens were sounding

[23:52] that's from Al Jazzer I believe of Arab

[23:55] television which is another

[23:58] component in this war uh the technology

[24:02] of communications is so much different

[24:04] every screen around the world probably

[24:06] tonight carrying these pictures at this

[24:10] hour. It will be the most televised

[24:12] event probably in the history of

[24:14] mankind. This war that is playing out

[24:16] live.

[24:19] Monty Migs is standing by. He um is a

[24:22] retired Army general, of course, who was

[24:24] a colonel during Operation Desert Storm,

[24:26] leading an armored assault across the

[24:28] desert sands. Uh he's standing at a map

[24:31] now and he's going to give us some

[24:32] perspective on where the American ground

[24:34] forces are and how far it is to Baghdad

[24:37] and what's critical between where they

[24:38] are now and where they need to get to.

[24:40] Monty

[24:41] >> Tom, it's 400 miles from Kuwait to

[24:44] Baghdad and you've got to go through

[24:46] some pretty rugged terrain here that's

[24:48] uh very wet. It's cross compartmented

[24:50] and it'll take some work, but our people

[24:52] know how to do it. I'm I'm intrigued by

[24:55] the combination we're seeing tonight.

[24:57] Perhaps a decapitating attack as General

[25:00] Schwarzko pointed out before people

[25:02] actually leave and go underground. And

[25:04] who knows what's happening in the

[25:06] ground. Perhaps activity to invest Baz

[25:09] Bazra or very active special forces

[25:13] activity to try to turn the political

[25:15] environment in some of these areas.

[25:17] >> And it's also worth pointing out, Monty,

[25:19] that we're only seeing live pictures of

[25:21] Baghdad. There could be a hellacious

[25:23] scene going on in the south of Iraq at

[25:25] this hour at where a lot of those air

[25:27] defense installations are located.

[25:28] Right.

[25:29] >> Well, that's absolutely right. Down in

[25:31] this area, that could be going on. I'd

[25:34] be interested to know in the pattern

[25:35] around Baghdad, how much of it's in the

[25:37] west of the city where a number of the

[25:39] command and control centers and the

[25:41] intelligence agencies are located. And

[25:44] we could be seeing ground forces

[25:46] starting to move north, but we wouldn't

[25:47] be hearing it and we wouldn't be getting

[25:49] any reports for a while.

[25:52] All right, thanks very much. NBC's uh

[25:55] Monty Migs, a retired Army general, now

[25:56] a consultant for NBC News. You'll be

[25:58] seeing a lot of him in the course of the

[26:00] next several days as well. Now, it's uh

[26:03] coming up on dawn in Baghdad. This

[26:05] defies all the conventions of warfare.

[26:08] Uh we generally fly at night. We hit

[26:10] them with everything that we've got all

[26:11] at the same time everywhere that we can.

[26:14] But this is not happening here. Now,

[26:16] gentlemen, I' I've been privileged of

[26:18] some briefings that we've been holding

[26:20] close. Obviously, one of the things that

[26:22] I was told is that they had less than 50

[26:25] targets that were so-called civilian

[26:27] sensitive, that they were very conscious

[26:29] of not having a lot of dead Iraqi

[26:32] civilians scattered across the

[26:33] battlefield. Uh, that could be a piece

[26:36] of all of this tonight as well, and that

[26:38] they were going to go after the

[26:40] leadership targets as quickly as they

[26:42] possibly could. And with this new

[26:45] targeting that they've got and the new

[26:47] ordinance that they have, they think

[26:48] that they can be much more surgical than

[26:50] they were just 12 years ago. Do you

[26:52] agree with that, Mike?

[26:52] >> Tom, I do. Uh 12 years ago, 10% only of

[26:55] our munitions were precision. Everything

[26:57] else was again what in our business we

[26:59] call dumb bombs. Uh the figures are

[27:01] exactly reversed this time. 90% of the

[27:04] munitions that the coalition will use

[27:05] against Iraq are in fact precision

[27:07] munitions. So we can pick the corner of

[27:09] a building and the floor we want to put

[27:11] in if that's what we desire to do. And

[27:13] Admiral Mcan, one of the things that we

[27:14] don't want to do is to destroy the

[27:16] infrastructure of Iraq because in a few

[27:17] days we're going to own that country.

[27:19] >> Absolutely, Tom. In military campaign

[27:21] planning, you always talk about centers

[27:22] of gravity. And I think in this case, it

[27:24] is the Iraqi leadership that is the

[27:26] center of gravity. If we could take them

[27:28] out, uh, we would have achieved major

[27:30] campaign goals.

[27:32] >> But Barry McAffrey, I know that you've

[27:34] thought about this Iraqi problem for a

[27:35] long time. The word that is always fed

[27:39] back to me when I ask where is he and

[27:40] what do you know? They say that place is

[27:42] so opaque you just can't see into it.

[27:45] >> Yeah. Well, you never know what the

[27:46] electronic warfare world is doing

[27:48] though. But Tom, one other thing I ought

[27:49] to add. Uh, one aspect of this campaign

[27:52] if it's starting at dawn would be if

[27:54] you're trying to minimize loss of life

[27:55] in the Iraqi army in the south. There's

[27:58] two entry divisions down there and a

[27:59] tank division. If we attack at night and

[28:01] you're glowing hot on our IR scopes,

[28:04] we're going to kill you. in daylight

[28:06] they they should be able to get these

[28:07] two infantry divisions in Bazra and

[28:09] Anasaria to surrender on mass. So that

[28:12] may be another aspect of a daylight

[28:14] attack. Counterintuitive. It's not what

[28:16] we do. Uh pretty pretty cunning.

[28:19] >> Um Saddam Hussein, it has to be said as

[28:22] well, is also cunning. He's a guy who

[28:24] survived for a long time.

[28:26] >> Uh do you imagine that he has stuck

[28:28] around Baghdad for the last couple of

[28:30] days? No, but you know, if they're going

[28:31] after 50 leadership targets, uh

[28:34] hopefully one of them has him in it when

[28:35] a 2,000lb bomb penetrates the top of it.

[28:38] So, I I'd be surprised if we're not

[28:40] trying to nail him tonight.

[28:42] >> One of the concerns has been we may get

[28:44] him and not know it.

[28:45] >> Yeah. Well, there ought to be an awful

[28:47] lot of back chatter of people who are

[28:49] relieved who'll say the the bad guy is

[28:51] gone. Now, we can switch

[28:53] >> dead.

[28:53] >> Yeah.

[28:54] >> Yeah. The other thing is it it occurs to

[28:57] me that we may have gotten some

[28:59] electronic information from inside the

[29:01] leadership. They've been dialing the

[29:03] cell phones. They've been talking to

[29:04] them on the internet. They've been doing

[29:05] whatever they can. And a lot of those

[29:07] people sitting around the table with him

[29:09] presiding and taking notes frantically.

[29:10] They've got to be thinking,

[29:12] >> "Why am I here?" And

[29:13] >> exactly.

[29:14] >> Also, I think, Tom, that they have

[29:16] predicted we were going to do just what

[29:17] we've been telling you we were going to

[29:19] do. And probably about 3:00 in the

[29:20] morning, Baghdad time, they all got

[29:22] together, had a drink, and said, "Well,

[29:23] they're not coming tonight." Yeah,

[29:25] that's true, too. Let's go to Peter

[29:26] Arnett, who is in Baghdad now, where the

[29:28] sun is up. Peter,

[29:31] >> while the sun is just coming up, Tom, we

[29:33] do hear distant anti-aircraft fire in

[29:36] the northwestern part of the city. It is

[29:38] some distance away, but we do hear the

[29:40] pop of that anti-aircraft fire. No large

[29:43] explosions as of yet that we can hear.

[29:46] That doesn't mean to say they're not

[29:47] happening out there. within Baghdad

[29:49] itself. A few police cars screaming

[29:52] around the streets and their sirens, but

[29:54] no, very few civilian cars yet. I do see

[29:57] a couple of photographers taking

[29:59] pictures. There is a big international

[30:01] press corp contingent here, Tom.

[30:03] Contingent here, Tom. Some were trapped

[30:05] here last night. They couldn't get out.

[30:07] But this will be a very well-covered

[30:09] battle, I assure you.

[30:10] >> Uh and and Peter, what about Iraqi

[30:14] television? Uh that is completely in the

[30:16] hands of Saddam Hussein, obviously. Are

[30:18] they transmitting anything into that

[30:20] whoop?