PBS NewsHour - 1996-03-04

Channel: malgent

Transcript

Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)

[0:06] Good evening. I'm Jim Lara. On the

[0:08] NewsHour tonight, full coverage of the

[0:10] bombings in Israel with the Israeli

[0:12] ambassador to the United States, a

[0:14] Palestinian official, and two former

[0:16] American diplomats. And a weekend of

[0:19] protesting Cuba. Bettanne Bowser

[0:22] reports. It all follows our summary of

[0:24] the news this Monday.

[0:26] Major funding for the NewsHour with Jim

[0:28] Lara has been provided by the Archer

[0:30] Daniels Midland Company, ADM,

[0:32] Supermarket to the World,

[0:35] and by New York Life, yet another

[0:38] example of New York Life's wise

[0:41] investment philosophy,

[0:44] and by the Corporation for Public

[0:46] Broadcasting, and by the annual

[0:48] financial support from viewers like you.

[0:52] There was another terrorist bombing in

[0:54] Israel today. At least 12 Israelis were

[0:56] killed when a bomb exploded in a crowded

[0:58] Tel Aviv shopping center. More than 100

[1:01] were injured. Police said the attack was

[1:03] the work of a suicide bomber. He blew

[1:06] himself up next to a line of people

[1:08] waiting at a bank machine. The militant

[1:10] Muslim group Hamas claimed

[1:12] responsibility for the attack. Hamas had

[1:14] done the same for another suicide

[1:16] bombing in Jerusalem yesterday. 18

[1:19] people aboard a bus were killed.

[1:21] Yesterday, Prime Minister Shimon Paris

[1:23] declared war on Hamas. Today, his

[1:25] cabinet created a special strike force

[1:27] to combat the terrorists. It will be

[1:29] authorized to hit anywhere, including

[1:31] areas recently returned to Palestinian

[1:34] control as part of the 1993 peace

[1:36] accords in Taylor, Michigan. Today,

[1:39] President Clinton condemned the bombing

[1:41] during a campaign speech.

[1:43] It is truly ironic that the same forces

[1:47] that brought down the Israeli prime

[1:50] minister from within his own country and

[1:53] those who have killed the Israelis in

[1:55] the last couple of days have one clear

[1:58] thing in common. They both want to end

[2:02] the peace process. They live for

[2:05] division and conflict. And I ask all of

[2:07] you, my fellow Americans, to send a

[2:09] message to Israel. If you fight for

[2:11] peace, we will stand with you. That is

[2:13] the right, the noble, and the good thing

[2:16] to do.

[2:17] >> We'll have much more on the bombing

[2:19] story right after this news summary.

[2:21] House Speaker N. Gingrich endorsed Bob

[2:23] Dole for president today. Gingrich said

[2:25] he had cast an absentee ballot for Dole

[2:27] in tomorrow's Georgia primary. He told

[2:30] reporters Dole is the candidate who can

[2:32] advance the Republican agenda. What we

[2:34] need is a president who will sign

[2:36] welfare reform, sign a balanced budget,

[2:39] sign tax relief for middle class

[2:41] families. And I think frankly that uh

[2:44] Senator Do has done a superb job. Uh and

[2:46] I did vote for him this morning and I

[2:48] think that uh uh you know he's he's

[2:50] really I think he is the next president

[2:51] of the United States. And I think that

[2:52] that'll rapidly become clear as we go

[2:54] through the primaries over the next two

[2:56] or three weeks.

[2:56] >> Dole won the primaries in South Carolina

[2:59] and Puerto Rico over the weekend. The

[3:01] candidates campaigned in Georgia and New

[3:03] England today. They were looking for

[3:05] support in tomorrow's Junior Tuesday

[3:07] primaries. A total of 208 delegates will

[3:10] be selected in Colorado, Georgia,

[3:12] Maryland, and five New England states.

[3:15] There will be caucuses in Minnesota and

[3:17] Washington State. The US Supreme Court

[3:20] today upheld the right to confiscate

[3:22] property used to commit crimes. The 5

[3:24] to4 ruling reaffirmed the authority of

[3:26] local, state, and federal prosecutors.

[3:29] The majority said forfeiteures do not

[3:31] violate due process or constitute

[3:33] unlawful taking of private property. The

[3:36] ruling rejected the appeal of a Michigan

[3:38] woman trying to recover the car that her

[3:40] husband had used to patronize a

[3:42] prostitute. In economic news today, the

[3:45] Commerce Department reported personal

[3:47] income rose.1% in January while consumer

[3:51] spending fell.5%.

[3:53] Severe winter weather was blamed for

[3:55] both figures. And that's it for the news

[3:58] summary tonight. Now it's on to the

[4:00] bombings in Israel and the

[4:02] demonstrations about Cuba.

[4:13] The lead story of this day was the

[4:14] bombing tragedy in Israel. Our coverage

[4:17] begins with this report by Gabby Rattle

[4:19] of Independent Television News. Be

[4:21] warned that some of the pictures are

[4:22] graphic.

[4:26] The worst nightmare of the Jewish

[4:28] nation. Indiscriminate carnage in the

[4:30] midst of their biggest city, Tel Aviv,

[4:32] revisited them this afternoon.

[4:35] Among those killed was the suicide

[4:37] bomber. He is thought to have walked

[4:39] across the street into a crowd of people

[4:41] near a hole-in-the-wall cash machine at

[4:43] a bank and then he blew himself up along

[4:46] with those around him.

[4:48] The place is Diesengo Street, the

[4:50] Israeli version of London's Oxford

[4:52] Street. The timing of the bomb in the

[4:54] mid-after afternoon was calculated to

[4:56] kill and maim as many as possible with

[4:59] shoppers getting ready for a 3-day

[5:00] Jewish holiday. Children, many in

[5:03] special costumes for the celebration,

[5:05] were set to be among the victims.

[5:09] Not only did this latest atrocity come

[5:11] just a day after the carbon copy bus

[5:13] bombing in Jerusalem, this attack itself

[5:15] was an almost exact repeat of a bus

[5:17] bombing in Diesenov Street in October

[5:19] 1994 when 22 people were murdered. As in

[5:23] the case of Jerusalem, the brutal

[5:25] message of the terrorists was that they

[5:27] could strike twice wherever they wanted,

[5:30] whatever the emergency security measures

[5:32] imposed by the Israeli government.

[5:36] As it grew dark, the Israeli Prime

[5:38] Minister Shimon Perez paid a visit to

[5:40] the bloodstained scene, as he has done

[5:42] in Jerusalem twice in the past eight

[5:44] days. Distraught crowds have been

[5:46] venting their anger on him. What's

[5:49] certain is that the bombers are killing

[5:50] his dream of peaceful coexistence with

[5:52] Palestinians.

[5:54] Early this morning, Israeli soldiers

[5:56] demonstrated a new hardline policy when

[5:59] they raided the Alawir Palestinian

[6:01] refugee camp, the former home of two

[6:03] earlier suicide bombers. They rounded up

[6:06] a thousand men and arrested 30 suspects

[6:08] who were expected to demolish the homes

[6:10] of the families of the suicide bombers

[6:12] who are known to have been members of

[6:13] Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement.

[6:16] In Jerusalem this morning, a thousand

[6:18] extra troops appeared by bus stops.

[6:20] Another outward sign of the new security

[6:22] measures taken by the government, the

[6:24] war against Hamas announced by the prime

[6:26] minister yesterday. However tough the

[6:29] new arrangements, the Tel Aviv bomb a

[6:31] few hours later showed that the

[6:32] terrorists could switch tactics and

[6:34] locations and always leave security

[6:36] forces one step behind.

[6:41] >> Overnight, the Israeli army tightened

[6:43] the closures of Palestinian controlled

[6:45] territories as a first step towards

[6:47] setting up a 2 kilometer wide zone of

[6:50] separation in the West Bank. From now

[6:52] on, the Arab population will only be

[6:54] allowed to cross into Israel at a small

[6:56] number of checkpoints.

[6:59] The timetable leading up to the Israeli

[7:01] elections on May the 29th has now been

[7:03] thrown into disarray by the acts of

[7:05] violence. This month, Israeli troops

[7:07] were to have completed their

[7:09] redeployment from Hebrron, the last and

[7:11] most volatile West Bank city to come

[7:12] under Palestinian control. Today, in the

[7:15] wake of the Tel Aviv bombing, Israel

[7:17] withdrew its delegation from the Syrian

[7:19] peace talks in Washington. That process

[7:21] is now on indefinite hold. May was

[7:24] supposed to be the starting date for the

[7:25] last stage of the Oslo peace plan. Talks

[7:27] on final borders, the status of

[7:29] territories, and the fate of Jerusalem.

[7:31] Mr. Ferris himself has said there may be

[7:32] no point in those talks now.

[7:36] Tonight, anger in the streets of

[7:38] Jerusalem. For the third time in just 8

[7:40] days, the Israelis are mourning new

[7:42] victims of terror. And scenes like this

[7:45] show that their patience is running out.

[7:48] Now to a newsmaker interview with the

[7:50] Israeli ambassador to the United States,

[7:52] Itamar Benovich. Mr. Ambassador,

[7:54] welcome.

[7:54] >> Thank you.

[7:55] >> Any new information on the bombing

[7:57] itself that you can add to that report?

[7:59] The death toll still 13 12 uh civilians

[8:03] plus the bomber himself.

[8:04] >> Fortunately, the original Grim reports

[8:06] are accurate.

[8:07] >> Yeah. And the suicide bomber had 30

[8:10] pounds of uh of explosive wrapped around

[8:13] him. that that

[8:14] >> that is that is unfortunately still

[8:16] still all true.

[8:17] >> Is there any question about his ties to

[8:19] Hamas?

[8:22] >> No, it there's been uh there's been a

[8:25] version that uh this is an Islamic jihad

[8:28] operation, but frankly whether it's

[8:30] Hamas or whether it's Islamic Jihad is

[8:33] of little consequence right now.

[8:35] >> It's uh the the Is there any word on

[8:38] where he might have gotten these

[8:39] explosives or where he came from?

[8:42] um just just speculations. But the point

[8:45] is that uh this this is one of the more

[8:49] uh interesting uh curious points in this

[8:52] said saga that um one is focused in

[8:56] these situations on on the lone suicide

[8:59] bomber. But the lone suicide bomber is

[9:01] part of a network that uh there is a the

[9:05] original depot somewhere in in the Gaza

[9:08] Strip or in the West Bank and there is a

[9:10] distribution network and there is a

[9:12] supply route and there is a a preacher

[9:14] who does the brainwashing and then there

[9:16] is the operative who does the final

[9:19] dispatching and u obviously that network

[9:23] is what we have to deal with

[9:25] >> and that network is being dealt with now

[9:27] by this special task force that was set

[9:29] in motion today in Israel.

[9:30] >> That is our share of it. But there is

[9:32] another important uh share that is to be

[9:34] done by the Palestinian Authority. We

[9:37] have left Gaza. We have left the main

[9:39] cities of uh of the West Bank. Uh part

[9:43] of the territory is still under our

[9:44] responsibility and we all saw what we

[9:47] have been doing near Hbron. But in those

[9:49] areas where the Palestinian Authority

[9:52] holds sway, it is challenged with the

[9:55] need to do that. Is it your information

[9:58] that that's where these uh that's where

[9:59] this network begins in the areas that

[10:01] are under Palestinian control?

[10:04] >> This is where the political leadership

[10:06] of Hamas is. This is where the

[10:08] operational network is. Um this is where

[10:11] the preacher is. When when these

[10:13] demented young young men go about

[10:17] exploding themselves and 20 or 30

[10:19] others, it begins in a brainwashing

[10:22] session uh that uh almost invariably

[10:25] takes place in a place like Gaza or like

[10:27] Hebron.

[10:28] >> And what is the route this man took to

[10:30] come to this Tel Aviv shopping center?

[10:33] Do you know yet?

[10:34] >> No, we don't.

[10:34] >> Yeah. And when you say the preacher, you

[10:37] don't have a person in mind, a specific

[10:38] person. You mean you mean a type? Is

[10:40] that correct?

[10:41] >> No. No. We do have names of at least

[10:43] five or six preachers who have been

[10:45] doing this with impunity for two or

[10:47] three years now.

[10:48] >> Impunity meaning that nobody stops them.

[10:50] Uh and and is this a violation of the

[10:53] law?

[10:54] >> A of course it's a violation of the law.

[10:56] >> I mean to preach uh what they're

[10:57] preaching

[10:58] >> to send to send somebody to kill other

[11:00] people is a violation of the law as I

[11:02] understand the law. Yes.

[11:03] >> Yeah. And so but I I meant these people

[11:06] are not preaching any kind of gospel or

[11:08] any kind of religion. And they're

[11:09] preaching hate and murder is what you're

[11:11] saying.

[11:11] >> Hate and murder. And they do the the

[11:12] brainwashing that induces

[11:16] normally a young man in his 20s, which

[11:18] is the the type, uh to go to go ahead

[11:21] and uh and do that.

[11:24] >> Is it the Israeli government's position

[11:26] now that that to stop this that has to

[11:28] be stopped back there at the source, it

[11:31] cannot be stopped within Israel? Uh that

[11:33] that that the security measures just

[11:35] aren't good enough.

[11:36] >> Right. there is there is not a single

[11:38] actor that that can do it. I think that

[11:41] uh we have to do what we have to do. The

[11:43] Palestinian Authority has its own share

[11:46] and and then there are the other Arab

[11:47] states. The Palestinian Authority is a

[11:50] fledgling

[11:51] political organization structure. It

[11:54] needs the support that the established

[11:56] Arab states can provide. the established

[11:59] Arab states that are part of the peace

[12:00] process, that support the peace process,

[12:02] that negotiate and implement with us

[12:04] ought to help the Palestinian Authority

[12:07] in what obviously is a very very

[12:09] difficult challenge for the Palestinians

[12:10] themselves.

[12:11] >> What is the Palestinian Authority not

[12:13] doing that the government of Israel

[12:14] wants them to do in this particular area

[12:16] to combat terrorism like this?

[12:18] >> Um, they are not going through a

[12:22] persistent campaign. Uh this is not the

[12:25] first time the some of the earlier

[12:27] incidents have been mentioned and some

[12:30] uh some of the ring leaders the leaders

[12:32] of Hamas have been picked up, arrested

[12:34] briefly and then released and uh there

[12:37] has to be a consistent persistent

[12:40] effort. Secondly, a message has to be

[12:42] sent that uh this is something that uh

[12:45] is bad that is uh not only causes harm

[12:50] to the Palestinian cause but is abhorent

[12:52] in its own right. it ought to be

[12:54] denounced. There there can be no double

[12:56] messages or subtle suggestions that some

[12:59] form of struggle are legitimate and

[13:01] others are not. I mean all forms of

[13:03] terrorism must be denounced equally.

[13:06] >> Now this new uh strike force that was

[13:09] formed today by your government. Um they

[13:12] plan to move into Palestinian authority

[13:14] areas if necessary.

[13:17] >> I'd put the emphasis on if necessary.

[13:19] It's the the term really is not so much

[13:21] a strike force as a staff.

[13:24] >> This is a staff headed by the director

[13:26] of the general security service and

[13:28] whose main efforts are to to coordinate

[13:30] to plan to to think of uh fresh ideas.

[13:34] We have seen a situation described

[13:36] graphically by the reporter whereby we

[13:38] have seem to be always one step behind

[13:41] the terrorists. The main idea with a

[13:43] stuff like that is to be one step ahead

[13:45] of terrorists. Now, we do not preclude

[13:48] acting in all regions, but our

[13:52] preference clearly is for the

[13:54] Palestinians to do what they need to do

[13:55] so that we do not have to uh to go back

[13:59] to areas that we have already left.

[14:01] >> I read a report, maybe you can confirm

[14:03] it, that this particular suicide bomber

[14:05] had was headed inside the shopping

[14:08] center, saw some Israeli soldiers there

[14:10] manning their their posts, and then

[14:12] apparently decided, well, he couldn't

[14:14] get through there with his bomb. And

[14:15] that's when he decided to detonate

[14:17] himself on the before he got in. Is that

[14:19] correct?

[14:19] >> I've I've read the same report and and

[14:21] this this really underlines the

[14:23] difficulty of dealing with a suicide

[14:25] bomber. I described before the suicide

[14:27] bomber as part of a network that is

[14:29] where our hope is we can deal with a

[14:31] network. But the there's also a major

[14:34] difficulty that is to say when somebody

[14:36] is determined to uh to kill himself at

[14:39] all cost somewhere if he cannot do it in

[14:42] point A he'll do it in point B. And that

[14:44] is something that on the practical level

[14:46] is very difficult to deal with.

[14:48] >> Why were the uh peace talks with Syria

[14:51] suspended?

[14:52] >> Um they were not suspended. We decided

[14:56] as as a categorical move. Uh the

[15:00] government decided that the two days of

[15:02] talks that were scheduled for this way

[15:05] this week will not take place this week

[15:07] because

[15:09] the atmosphere is not right. uh when uh

[15:13] when Israel is in spin trying to deal

[15:15] with oncoming uh terrorist blows, when

[15:19] the country is in mourning, um these two

[15:22] days could wait. It's not a a

[15:25] farreaching political statement, but uh

[15:28] an attempt to do the right thing for

[15:30] this time.

[15:30] >> In other words, it shouldn't be read

[15:32] that this means that the Israeli

[15:34] government believes that Syria somehow

[15:36] is tied into these terrorist attacks.

[15:39] No, we do not believe that this

[15:41] originates in Syria. We we would have

[15:44] preferred that the Syrians condemned

[15:47] these attacks in in very clear language,

[15:49] but there is no conditionality here. We

[15:52] we did the government made its decision

[15:56] for the reasons that I've described

[15:57] below and uh we are expressing our

[16:00] displeasure at the Syrian failure to

[16:02] condemn the attacks separately from

[16:04] that. But we are not uh conditioning one

[16:07] thing with the other.

[16:08] >> As we reported uh from uh from Israel

[16:11] there, thousands of uh of young

[16:14] Palestinian men were were detained and

[16:16] then several were were arrested. Are

[16:18] things like that going to happen in the

[16:20] next few days? Is that what we should

[16:21] expect or are there any other kinds of

[16:23] actions that the government under this

[16:25] new strike command uh are planning to

[16:28] take or do you know? I'm afraid that

[16:31] there isn't that many attractive

[16:34] measures that can be taken in order to

[16:35] combat terrorism. But I think that

[16:37] everybody in Israel and outside Israel

[16:39] agrees that right now the priority is is

[16:42] to stop the carnage, to stop this uh

[16:45] sustained offensive terrorist campaign

[16:48] and we'll do whatever it takes in order

[16:50] to stop it.

[16:51] >> Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much.

[16:52] >> Thank you very much.

[16:54] >> Now, a Palestinian view of these

[16:55] bombings and to Charlene Hunter Gald. It

[16:58] is the perspective from the Palestinian

[17:01] Authority of Yaser Arafat. Hassan Abdel

[17:04] Rakman is the chief representative of

[17:06] the Palestine Liberation Organization in

[17:09] Washington. Mr. Rakman, what can you

[17:11] tell us about who's responsible for

[17:13] these bombings of the past few days?

[17:15] >> Well, it's obvious that those who are

[17:17] responsible took responsibility for

[17:19] their action. Uh they call themselves

[17:22] the cells of Yahayash who is the

[17:25] engineer quote unquote the person who

[17:27] was assassinated by Israel in Gaza

[17:30] through the explosion of a cellular

[17:33] forge about a month and a half ago. They

[17:36] call themselves the cells of Yahayash.

[17:39] So, but we understand also that those

[17:42] probably belong to the armwing of Hamas.

[17:46] Uh, a very clandestine small tiny

[17:50] military group who most probably

[17:53] received their instructions from outside

[17:56] of the uh Palestinian territories, the

[17:58] West Bank and Gaza. So uh those are

[18:01] >> like where from where

[18:02] >> I believe that there are members of

[18:04] Hamas or jihad Islami who are living

[18:09] maybe in Iran maybe uh uh in some of the

[18:12] Arab countries maybe in Europe in the

[18:14] United States I don't know but all we

[18:17] know that those are operatives who uh

[18:21] are uh uh engaged in acts of terrorism

[18:25] and we are determined to really

[18:29] approved this malice because we believe

[18:32] that it is directed mostly against the

[18:37] ability of the Palestinian National

[18:38] Authority to establish itself.

[18:40] >> The the wire services are reporting that

[18:43] Palestinian security forces have

[18:45] arrested a suspect in these bombings, a

[18:47] 28-year-old student at a teacher

[18:50] training seminary. Do you can you shed

[18:51] any light?

[18:52] >> I have uh no information on that. The

[18:54] last time I had communication with our

[18:58] headquarters in Gaza was about two hours

[19:00] ago and I have not heard anything about

[19:02] that. Mhm. Well, you heard the

[19:03] ambassador, Ambassador Ravenowitz's

[19:05] analysis of who these people are, not

[19:08] the suicide bombers per se, but he said

[19:10] that they belong to a network in which

[19:12] there's a preacher who stirs up things

[19:15] and brainwashes these young people to

[19:17] walk into crowds to like today and blow

[19:21] up people and things in himself. How do

[19:25] do you does that analysis square with

[19:27] your knowledge of how these things are

[19:29] set up? Well, I I don't want to really

[19:31] engage in pmics with Ambassador

[19:34] Rabinovich because I understand the uh

[19:37] situation he is in and most of the

[19:40] Israeli uh government and the Israeli

[19:42] public uh due to the regrettable, sad

[19:46] and senseless uh killing that took

[19:49] place. We have always to remember that

[19:52] some of the victims were Palestinians.

[19:53] Today two Palestinians were buried, one

[19:56] in Jerusalem and one in uh in Be Jala.

[19:59] So we have Palestinian victims also as

[20:03] uh uh consequences of those uh uh

[20:06] incidents. However, yes uh I believe

[20:10] that uh there is a general environment

[20:13] and the general environment uh is was in

[20:17] the past before the peace process

[20:19] conducive to this kind of uh situation.

[20:23] Now when the Palestine National

[20:25] Authority took control

[20:28] uh we moved on on those uh uh groups and

[20:33] we succeeded to a great extent to the

[20:36] point where we were able to conduct a

[20:39] free and democratic elections where 80%

[20:42] of the Palestinian people cast their

[20:44] vote in support of the peace process.

[20:46] But how do you respond to the

[20:47] ambassadors claim that these preachers

[20:50] have been able to preach hatred and

[20:52] brainwash these young people with

[20:53] impunity? He said for the past couple of

[20:56] years,

[20:56] >> you cannot really in any democracy uh

[20:59] arrest people for what they say. I mean,

[21:01] and I have not heard of anybody calling

[21:04] on Palestinians to commit suicide and

[21:08] engage in suicidal uh killing with with

[21:12] impunity as the ambassador says. But I

[21:14] mean he cannot site any incident. I

[21:16] don't want to get into polymics. What

[21:19] I'm trying to say in Israel there are

[21:21] rabbis who are calling for killing of

[21:24] Palestinians. I'm not asking the Israeli

[21:26] government to arrest those uh because as

[21:29] long as people do not engage in

[21:32] activities uh in actions you cannot

[21:34] arrest them. However, we have took

[21:37] preventive action in the past and

[21:39] arrested hundreds of people uh and we

[21:42] were able to really uh split Hamas and

[21:47] bring into the political fold many of

[21:49] the leaders of Hamas to the point where

[21:52] uh the last election showed that Hamas's

[21:55] real size shrunk from 40% when Israel

[21:59] was in Gaza to 8% when we took control

[22:02] of Gaza. Well, today a spokesperson for

[22:05] Yasa Arafat said he was very angry about

[22:07] the bombings and and said this was a

[22:10] declaration of war and that it should be

[22:12] treated as such. What did he mean about

[22:14] that?

[22:14] >> Well, we believe that those acts of

[22:16] violence, although are directed against

[22:19] Israeli uh citizens, but they are

[22:22] intended to undermine the peace process

[22:25] and to undermine the capacity of the

[22:27] Palestinian National Authority to build

[22:29] itself. It is not an accident in our

[22:32] views that this takes place a week

[22:35] before the Palestinian National Council,

[22:38] the Palestinian elected council is

[22:40] convened. It is just at the in the in

[22:43] the uh day or two days or three days

[22:46] before that we are building our national

[22:48] institutions.

[22:49] >> Well, you know, there have been calls

[22:51] for President uh for from President

[22:54] Clinton and the Israeli leaders for

[22:57] Arafat to do more. Do you think that um

[23:01] that there is more that could be done

[23:03] that hasn't been done?

[23:04] >> I think the I mean I understand the

[23:08] situation in the uh Israeli government.

[23:11] Uh I believe that some of the statements

[23:13] that were made reflect some panicking by

[23:16] the Israeli government and uh uh only

[23:19] play into the hands of the Israeli

[23:20] right-wing as as well as in the hands of

[23:24] the Palestinians who opposed the peace

[23:26] process. Because once you start accusing

[23:28] alfat of not doing enough, you are

[23:31] planting doubt in the minds of the

[23:33] Israeli public opinion.

[23:34] >> Well, President Clinton,

[23:35] >> I don't believe that's accurate.

[23:36] >> President Clinton said that it's

[23:37] difficult, of course, and everybody

[23:39] realizes that it's difficult to stop any

[23:41] suicide bomber who takes it on his own

[23:44] authority to go and blow up people, but

[23:46] but that everybody, including the US,

[23:49] has to do more. I mean, do you accept

[23:51] that the Palestinian Authority hasn't

[23:53] done enough and could do more and is it

[23:56] going to do anything different?

[23:57] >> Oh, what what we have been doing what we

[24:01] needed to do then probably we need to do

[24:03] more at this point and that's why

[24:06] yesterday President Alfad declared all

[24:08] those organizations as illegal and

[24:11] outlaw organizations. Uh we moved to

[24:14] arrest many of the leaders. Uh so there

[24:18] are steps and measures that has been

[24:21] taken in the last week or so. But what

[24:24] I'm warning against is really a reactive

[24:28] measures by Israel like the one today in

[24:30] the refugee camp. Why do you need to

[24:32] arrest to detain 1,000 people and arrest

[24:35] 30? This really plays into the hand of

[24:39] Hamas. Hamas cannot survive in a

[24:42] peaceful situation. They can survive

[24:44] only in a war situation. Why is that?

[24:46] >> Because Hamas, the extremism in any

[24:50] society is the product of despair, of

[24:52] deprivation.

[24:54] We have 50%

[24:56] unemployment in Gaza among our labor

[24:59] force in the West Bank. So closure by

[25:01] Israel of those territories

[25:05] affects the Israeli the Palestinian

[25:07] economy. Earlier today, the ambassador

[25:09] said that that the Palestinian Authority

[25:11] needs to go street by street, house by

[25:14] house in the areas where these suspected

[25:17] terrorist uh networks are and seek them

[25:20] out otherwise Israel might have to go in

[25:22] itself. How do you react to that?

[25:24] >> I I believe that is uh really an

[25:27] exaggerated reaction. I don't think you

[25:29] need to go from house to house to arrest

[25:31] people. I mean you should look think of

[25:34] the price that you have to pay as a

[25:36] result of that and what about necessary

[25:39] >> what what happens if the Israelis go in

[25:41] though if they decided that what the

[25:44] Palestinian authorities

[25:45] >> would be absolutely counterproductive

[25:46] and it would not and it would be a

[25:49] self-defeating approach. What Israel

[25:51] needs to do is to expand the peace

[25:53] process not to play into the hands of

[25:55] those small minority.

[25:58] I I cannot guarantee and neither the

[26:00] ambassador of Israel can guarantee that

[26:02] this man who committed suicide today got

[26:05] his instructions from Gaza or received

[26:07] the explosives in Gaza. He might have

[26:09] brought it in from somewhere in Israel

[26:11] itself. Nobody knows. Uh so let's not

[26:15] really react to this very strongly and

[26:17] move formulate rational policies that

[26:20] serve the peace process.

[26:22] >> Mr. Rakman, thank you.

[26:23] >> Thank you. Now, some analysis of this

[26:26] situation from two Americans who have

[26:28] been involved in making peace in the

[26:30] Middle East. Elizabeth Farnsworth has

[26:32] that.

[26:32] >> Both of our guests have been ambassadors

[26:34] to Israel. Sam Lewis served under

[26:36] presidents Carter and Reagan and more

[26:38] recently was director of policy planning

[26:40] at the State Department. He is now a

[26:42] counselor to the Washington Institute

[26:44] for Near East Policy. Edward Gerigian

[26:47] was ambassador to Israel from 1993 to

[26:49] 94. He was ambassador to Syria from 1988

[26:52] to 91. He also served as secretary of

[26:55] state for near east affairs in the Bush

[26:57] administration. He is now director of

[26:59] the Baker Institute for F foreign policy

[27:01] at Rice University in Houston. Thank you

[27:03] both for being with us. Ambassador

[27:05] Lewis, let's continue this conversation

[27:06] that Charlane was having with Mr.

[27:08] Rockman. Where do you think that the

[27:10] terror terrorism of this sort can be

[27:13] stopped or has to be stopped? Is this

[27:15] something that the Palestinian Authority

[27:17] can deal with? Is this something the

[27:18] Israelis have to deal with on their own?

[27:21] Do they have to act together? I think

[27:23] they do have to act together. I don't

[27:25] think there's any chance of stamping it

[27:27] out perfectly even in that event for a

[27:30] long time. But um the intelligence

[27:34] services of both Israel and the five

[27:37] intelligence services of the Palestinian

[27:39] Authority who have been cooperating need

[27:42] to cooperate a lot more closely. The

[27:44] authority has to roll up some of these

[27:46] networks. The Israelis are in a wave of

[27:51] the kind of emotion that I think anyone

[27:53] can understand with 60 people killed in

[27:56] the last nine days and carnage all over

[27:58] the streets of the two major cities. And

[28:01] unless there is much more action than

[28:05] there has been on getting at some of the

[28:07] really bad actors, the Israelis will

[28:10] have no alternative but to try to do

[28:12] more themselves. And I think that will

[28:14] have very adverse political

[28:15] consequences. But there won't be an

[28:17] alternative. It's got to be a

[28:18] cooperative job.

[28:19] >> But you said that even if they

[28:21] cooperate, you're you're not optimistic

[28:22] that they can stop it, at least in the

[28:24] short term.

[28:24] >> Not totally. But look, this is a no one

[28:28] has found a solution to suicide bombers.

[28:32] But I think that the key here is to show

[28:35] enough success to restore a certain

[28:38] degree of confidence in the Israeli

[28:41] public that their security, personal

[28:44] security in their major cities can be

[28:47] again given some confidence. If that

[28:50] doesn't happen, the peace process is

[28:52] finished.

[28:52] >> Ambassador Jerigian, do you have any

[28:54] comment on that peace process finished

[28:57] unless there can be some kind of

[28:59] progress shown on terrorism? Well, I

[29:02] think we have to remind ourselves that

[29:03] the Arab-Israeli peace process has

[29:05] always been a race against the violence

[29:07] and terrorism on the ground of those

[29:10] opposed to the peace process and on the

[29:12] other hand the forward movement of

[29:14] negotiations themselves. It has always

[29:16] been that way throughout the history of

[29:18] this peace process and now we're seeing

[29:21] a very u an extremely uh tragic and

[29:25] rough patch in these uh negotiations. uh

[29:29] the people who are the prepare who are

[29:30] really behind these acts of terrorism

[29:33] are obviously enemies of peace. I agree

[29:35] with Sam Lewis. There has to be more

[29:37] effective coordination uh between the

[29:39] Israeli uh authorities and the

[29:41] Palestinian Authority. much more

[29:42] coordination, but on top of that, I

[29:44] think there has to be more of an

[29:46] internationally coordinated effort to

[29:48] get at the uh international financing

[29:51] and support mechanisms for specific

[29:53] groups that are uh behind these uh

[29:57] terrorist groups. So, we need a u an

[30:00] effort on the part of the Palestinians.

[30:02] They have direct responsibility on part

[30:04] of the Israelis, direct responsibility

[30:06] for their own people, the security of

[30:08] the Israeli people, coordination between

[30:10] Israel and the Palestinian Authority,

[30:12] and then an international effort uh to

[30:15] try to get at the support systems behind

[30:17] these groups. And here I think the

[30:18] United States can play a major

[30:20] leadership role.

[30:20] >> Do you think that's one of the main

[30:21] things that the US can do right now is

[30:23] to provide intelligence and other means

[30:26] of getting at some of those networks?

[30:27] Well, it's not only providing

[30:29] intelligence, but it's really mobilizing

[30:30] the effort uh to uh to try to stem uh

[30:35] the support that is being given to these

[30:37] groups. But at the same time,

[30:39] >> you mean from the United States or

[30:41] >> well from wherever there are financial

[30:43] flows from the United States, from the

[30:44] Middle East, from other countries, uh

[30:47] there are weapons supplies, uh there's

[30:49] training. uh this is truly one of the uh

[30:52] the greatest challenges that the

[30:53] international community has in a

[30:55] post-cold war era is actually these

[30:57] forms of terrorism and in the Middle

[30:59] East it has a certain poignency because

[31:01] certainly we uh have invested so much

[31:04] the United States has invested so much

[31:05] in the Arab-Israeli peace process that

[31:08] at this very fragile stage I think the

[31:11] US's role is to maintain the structure

[31:13] of the peace process during this

[31:15] electoral period in Israel and during

[31:18] this this period of incident of

[31:19] terrorism to sustain it so that it can

[31:22] proceed.

[31:23] >> Do you think it can be sustained in this

[31:24] period given all these?

[31:25] >> Well, I think it's possible Charlie and

[31:27] I agree with Ed. Uh but I'd like to

[31:30] focus really on where the international

[31:32] problem is. There's a lot of evidence

[31:36] that the military wing of Hamas doesn't

[31:40] necessarily take its orders from the

[31:42] political wing in Gaza. that in fact

[31:46] there is a leadership group of the

[31:48] military wing of Hamas in Damascus very

[31:51] closely tied in with the Iranians and

[31:54] the Iranians are the major external

[31:56] supporters

[31:57] >> even though the ambassador the

[31:58] ambassador said he did not have evidence

[32:00] that there was anybody in Syria.

[32:02] >> He was he was quite careful about that I

[32:05] think and this is a a clear diplomatic

[32:07] problem. Israel is negotiating with

[32:09] Syria for peace. We're a player in this.

[32:12] Uh we no one denies that Hamas leaders

[32:16] and leaders of a number of other uh

[32:20] anti- peace leadership factions reside

[32:23] in Damascus. Nor is there much much uh

[32:27] ambiguity about the Iranian support and

[32:30] maybe even direction of some of these

[32:32] groups. Now, how you how you mobilize

[32:36] international pressure on the

[32:39] headquarters of the military groups in

[32:42] the territories is tricky. The US can't

[32:45] do it alone. Other Arab states, it seems

[32:47] to me, need to play an important role in

[32:50] this. For those Arab states that are now

[32:53] signed on to the peace process, and many

[32:55] of them are, uh, could have more

[32:58] influence than we, I would suspect, on

[33:00] this kind of problem. And and do you see

[33:03] any any evidence that that could happen?

[33:05] Are you optimistic about that?

[33:07] >> Well, I'm guardedly hopeful. Let's put

[33:09] it that way. We need to do a lot of

[33:11] diplomatic work. The Egyptians need to

[33:13] do it. The Moroccans need to do it. The

[33:16] Israelis need to do it with others. The

[33:18] Syrians need to be talked to. The

[33:20] Jordan, everybody has a role here. But

[33:22] unfortunately, nobody has much influence

[33:24] over Iran. And that's where I think the

[33:27] problem originates.

[33:28] >> Ambassador Gerigian, do you have

[33:29] anything to say but to that? you were

[33:31] ambassador to Syria.

[33:33] >> Well, I think the u the role the support

[33:36] mechanisms uh are diverse. The important

[33:39] thing here is that uh certainly we know

[33:43] that there has been Iranian funding of

[33:47] uh certain uh Palestinian uh extremist

[33:50] groups uh and certainly uh support uh

[33:54] and we obviously know there's a direct

[33:56] tie between Iran and Hezbollah in the

[33:58] south of Lebanon uh which is another

[34:00] dimension of of the problem uh not the

[34:03] Palestinian dimension but another

[34:04] dimension of the problem of of terrorism

[34:06] and acts of violence.

[34:08] But the important thing here is that

[34:11] it's not good enough for just Israel or

[34:14] the Palestinian Authority. That it needs

[34:16] an international effort, the regional

[34:18] level, at the international level, a

[34:20] multilateral effort on the part of all

[34:23] the actors and players and not only the

[34:26] uh parties involved in the peace

[34:28] process, but also some of the countries

[34:30] in the world that have a a stake that is

[34:32] equal to ours in a uh the success of

[34:34] failure of the Arab peace process. But

[34:36] I'm talking about the Europeans, Russia,

[34:38] Japan, and and others.

[34:40] >> I want to talk about the peace process.

[34:42] Do you think it can survive this

[34:44] >> and and

[34:46] I think it can survive this, but I think

[34:49] it is on life support at this moment.

[34:52] This comes at such an awful time in the

[34:55] electoral process. Uh Shimon Perez was

[34:58] leading by 15 percentage points just

[35:00] nine days ago. Now he's probably well

[35:03] behind. He's certainly at least even.

[35:05] And there's no way if you have a few

[35:07] more incidents like the ones this week

[35:10] that uh BB Netanyahu and the Lakood and

[35:13] the right-wing coalition will not win.

[35:16] Now assuming that were to happen,

[35:19] >> there's no way they wouldn't win if this

[35:20] >> they would clearly win if this

[35:22] continues. And Perez, who is the most

[35:25] devout advocate of the peace process and

[35:29] his colleagues, uh will do everything

[35:32] possible to avoid abandoning the peace

[35:34] process. But the Israeli public has lost

[35:37] confidence in peacemaking. And these

[35:40] waves of emotion have to be gotten over

[35:43] and digested to get back to a serious

[35:46] confidence in the peace process. And

[35:48] every terrorist incident starts a new

[35:50] wave. Now, I think it's possible,

[35:53] therefore, but I'm not very I'm very

[35:56] very worried at this moment that the

[35:58] peace process uh will gradually grind to

[36:01] a halt and then after the election begin

[36:05] to recede.

[36:07] >> And Ambassador Gerigian, if if Mr.

[36:09] Netanyahu, the Lood candidate won, what

[36:12] would that mean?

[36:14] >> Well, we have to be candid about this.

[36:15] Both uh Labor and Liood have a different

[36:19] vision of Arab-Israeli peace.

[36:22] uh LEUD's vision of a uh a comprehensive

[36:25] settlement is uh quite different uh than

[36:29] Labour's uh definition and vision of an

[36:32] Arab-Israeli uh settlement both on

[36:34] territorial issues on on the issue of

[36:36] Israeli settlements uh and and a number

[36:39] of other issues uh both on the

[36:42] Palestinian front on the Syrian front uh

[36:44] uh specifically. So the peace process

[36:48] would uh uh obviously take a different

[36:52] uh form if uh if lood came into power in

[36:56] Israel. Uh and we have to be clear on

[36:59] that.

[37:00] >> Might it stop altogether?

[37:02] >> Uh I don't know. That's quite

[37:04] speculative, but certainly it would be

[37:05] an entirely different uh uh process than

[37:09] the one we have now under uh labor. What

[37:12] do you think that we'll see in the next

[37:14] just briefly in the time we have left

[37:15] that we'll see in the next months? Um

[37:18] what kind of a of a a declaration of war

[37:21] was made against the Hamas and other

[37:24] Islamic jihad and other groups. What do

[37:25] you think we'll see? We've seen that

[37:27] there were a thousand Palestinians

[37:29] arrested today.

[37:30] >> I think you'll see I think you'll see

[37:32] additional

[37:34] direct efforts by Israeli security

[37:37] forces to follow up leads to roll up

[37:40] networks. You'll see less of them if

[37:43] there's more activity by the Palestinian

[37:45] Authority to do the same. But I think

[37:46] you'll see some in any case.

[37:48] >> Will we see anything?

[37:49] >> I don't think I I really don't think the

[37:50] Israeli government at this point has any

[37:52] political alternative at least

[37:55] >> to trying to do everything it can to

[37:57] reassure its own citizens that it's

[37:59] doing everything possible to protect

[38:01] them.

[38:02] >> Okay, thank you both very much for being

[38:04] with us.

[38:05] >> Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, a

[38:07] report from Florida on the Cuban exiles.

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[44:01] >> Once again, here are the thank you gifts

[44:02] we're offering during this break. Take a

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[44:24] delightful book, Where to Find the

[44:26] Oregon in Oregon by Bridget Batty

[44:29] McCarthy. It's a comprehensive guide to

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[44:33] the essence of the state, plus a listing

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[44:45] Public Broadcasting. If you're in the

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[44:57] About four and a half minutes left to

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[45:22] Travels in Europe and Europe 101, a

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[46:03] >> I'm Bob Edwards. You usually hear me on

[46:05] NPR's Morning Edition from 5 to 9:00

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[46:11] Public Broadcasting. Tonight, I'm asking

[46:14] you to call one of the numbers on your

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[46:40] >> Less than three minutes right now to

[46:42] make your contribution and that

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[46:45] fordoll. Tonight, your $55 contribution

[46:48] to OPB on your credit card brings you a

[46:50] $10 gift certificate to the OPB store of

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[47:12] Remember, if you are calling from

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[47:17] from anywhere else in our viewing area,

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[47:21] Call toll-free 1 800-245-2346.

[47:26] >> With about 2 minutes left, this is

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[47:48] >> If we were asking for a lot of money, it

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[47:59] >> Oh, less than the latte I had this

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[48:06] >> Uh we're down to 1 minute and about 15

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[48:16] number 1 8002452346

[48:20] from anywhere else in Oregon and

[48:21] Southwest Washington.

[48:22] >> And don't forget all those wonderful

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[48:26] this wonderful book where to find the

[48:27] Oregon in Oregon. Uh all these can be

[48:30] yours for your gift for your gifting.

[48:31] The phones are ringing. If you've gotten

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[48:34] >> please call back. We do thank you very

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[48:41] long-distance company, for donating the

[48:43] 1-800 number service during our

[48:44] membership drives. We appreciate that a

[48:46] lot.

[48:46] >> Casey, we're doing well and we're

[48:48] cutting down about 30 seconds left. So,

[48:50] please get on the phone right now. We

[48:52] need your support. The number again is

[48:54] 2452345

[48:56] right here in the Portland area.

[48:57] >> And almost every single volunteer is on

[49:00] the phone. That's wonderful. That's not

[49:02] often that you the we weren't hearing

[49:04] the phones ring and I almost thought,

[49:05] "Oh my gosh, we don't have anyone

[49:06] calling." That's cuz they're busy. If

[49:07] they are busy, believe me, they will be

[49:10] free in just a few moments. So stay with

[49:11] us.

[49:11] >> We have a we have a lot of supporters of

[49:13] the McNeil of the News Hour.

[49:14] >> We're counting down now to 10 seconds

[49:17] and uh only 10 seconds left to get in

[49:19] and have your money match. So now let's

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[49:25] member supported OPB. Our time is up.

[49:27] Thank you for your support tonight.

[49:31] You can mail your contribution to Oregon

[49:34] Public Broadcasting P. Box 4373,

[49:37] Portland, Oregon 97208

[49:40] or call 2452345

[49:43] or 1 8002452346

[49:46] and your phone volunteer will be happy

[49:48] to take your contribution.

[49:59] Finally tonight, the weekend memorials

[50:01] by Cuban exiles. Betty Anne Bowser

[50:04] reports.

[50:06] >> The national anthem of Cuba.

[50:17] A crowd estimated at more than 60,000

[50:19] filled Miami's Orange Bowl to

[50:21] memorialize the four young pilots shot

[50:24] down last week by Cuban Migs off the

[50:27] coast of Cuba. When the government of

[50:30] Fidel Castro tries,

[50:34] as it has

[50:37] to deny that what it did was murder,

[50:42] America will tell the truth.

[50:48] >> The Young Flyers belong to Brothers to

[50:50] the Rescue, an organization founded by

[50:52] Cuban exiles. They routinely fly over

[50:55] the Florida Straits looking for Cuban

[50:57] rafters fleeing Cuba. The four pilots

[51:00] were killed when they were on such a

[51:02] mission.

[51:07] There was thunderous applause when

[51:09] founders of Brothers to the Rescue flew

[51:12] over the Orange Bowl in a tribute to

[51:14] their fallen comrades.

[51:17] where they were

[51:18] >> for Cuban exile Terry Zubie Zeraretta

[51:20] and her Americanborn daughter Michelle.

[51:23] It was an emotional experience. They've

[51:26] heard stories about Castro's brutality

[51:28] for years, but nothing prepared them for

[51:31] the reality of the shootown on February

[51:34] 24th. I don't think there's anything in

[51:36] at least in my generation in the years

[51:38] that I've, you know, been alive that had

[51:40] this kind of impact. And then you also

[51:42] look at their ages. I think that for my

[51:45] generation that kind of touched us also

[51:47] because it's a whole different factor in

[51:49] terms of your own im immortality. I mean

[51:52] they were 24 29 years old. I'm I'm 28.

[51:55] So and they were doing things that I

[51:57] don't think a lot of us would do and yet

[51:59] they were every day that they got into

[52:01] those planes they were sacrificing their

[52:02] lives for Cuba. Some of them had weren't

[52:05] even born there.

[52:06] >> No, they gave us they gave us 90

[52:07] minutes. Michelle Zubie Zeretta is a

[52:09] senior vice president in her mother's

[52:11] advertising business, the largest

[52:13] Hispanic ad agency in the United States

[52:16] with billings this year alone of $40

[52:18] million. For years, Mrs. Zubie Zeretta

[52:22] has been active in Cubaname causes, but

[52:25] the deaths of the Young Flyers has

[52:27] reignited her passions about Cuba.

[52:30] >> This has been like like a like a blow in

[52:32] the head. Uh it you know it has made us

[52:35] realize that uh that Castro is still

[52:38] there that Cuba is still crying and that

[52:42] uh we have to do something.

[52:43] >> Do you think there should be any kind of

[52:45] normalization of relations between the

[52:47] two countries?

[52:48] >> No, never. Not now.

[52:52] >> This is the position of a number of

[52:53] anti-Castro organizations like the

[52:56] CubanAmerican Foundation. President

[52:59] Jorge Moscanosa says the four pilots

[53:02] deaths have become a rallying point for

[53:04] the so-called hardline right.

[53:06] >> We believe that this is a turning point

[53:08] in Cuban history and it has redeemed the

[53:13] position that we have uh sustained all

[53:17] along you can dialogue with a criminal.

[53:21] >> Andreas Oppenheimer is a Puliter

[53:23] Prizewinning reporter for the Miami

[53:25] Herald. He has been covering

[53:28] CubanAmerican issues for more than 20

[53:30] years.

[53:31] >> There's no question that this has helped

[53:32] the uh the hardliners within the Cuban

[53:35] community. Uh this has uh pushed their

[53:38] agenda incredibly and has fallen as a

[53:41] cold shower and all the moderates and

[53:43] all the people who thought uh the US and

[53:47] Cuba could begin negotiations towards a

[53:50] gradual normalization of relations. One

[53:52] of the leaders of the pro- dialogue

[53:54] movement, Eloy Gutierrez Monoyo conceds

[53:57] his side has suffered a setback. Once a

[54:00] political prisoner in Cuba, now living

[54:02] in Miami with his family, Monoyo says

[54:05] brothers to the rescue was deliberately

[54:07] provocative with the Cuban government.

[54:11] >> Yes, they have done it with conscience.

[54:13] They needed those mart those martyrs. uh

[54:17] they needed them because it has proven

[54:20] that they have put an obstacle

[54:23] towards all the talks that have been

[54:26] done or anything that Clinton was doing

[54:29] with Cuba and trying to talk through a

[54:31] peaceful solution.

[54:33] >> Jose Basulo, founder of Brothers to the

[54:35] Rescue, says he and his pilots have

[54:37] never tried to provoke Castro. We must

[54:40] not waver in our efforts to bring

[54:43] assistance and support to those who

[54:45] struggle through nonviolent means inside

[54:47] the island. It is there where where our

[54:51] first priority lies.

[54:53] >> Basilto supports a third approach to the

[54:55] Cuban question based on the peaceful

[54:58] nonviolent principles of Gandhi and Dr.

[55:00] Martin Luther King. But Silto and other

[55:03] Cuban-American leaders believe that

[55:05] organizing flotillas that by flying

[55:08] close to Cuban airspace and holding

[55:10] demonstrations in a nonviolent manner

[55:13] will keep Cuban issues alive in the

[55:16] international arena. Over the weekend,

[55:18] Basilto and the brothers flew near Cuba

[55:21] to memorialize the four dead pilots. In

[55:24] the waters below, a flotilla braved

[55:27] 8-foot seas to remember the young Cuban

[55:29] Americans. The television pictures were

[55:32] broadcast around the world. A strategy

[55:35] reporter Oppenheimer says is working.

[55:37] The hardlands are seeing that brothers

[55:40] to the rescue through nonviolent

[55:42] peaceful

[55:43] uh moves have sort of number one

[55:47] challenged Fidel Castro's propaganda

[55:50] line that all Miami exiles are

[55:52] right-wing terrorists and number two it

[55:55] has attracted international attention to

[55:58] Cuban civil rights violations.

[56:01] >> This is a lot of the propaganda that we

[56:02] saw. 17-year-old Patrick Idalgo has

[56:05] heard many stories of human rights

[56:07] violations from his exile parents. Last

[56:11] summer, he spent eight days with a Cuban

[56:13] family near Havana. He says the

[56:16] experience convinced him that opening up

[56:18] relations with the Cuban people is the

[56:20] only way to make Castro go peacefully.

[56:24] >> They don't even know the good of

[56:25] democracy. And I think how can they how

[56:28] can they fight for something if they

[56:29] don't even know what it is? That's why I

[56:31] think we shouldn't isolate them further

[56:33] as a helms burn bill and all these other

[56:35] bills.