PBS NewsHour - 1996-03-04
Channel: malgent
Transcript
Language: English (original, YouTube automatic captions)
[0:06] Good evening. I'm Jim Lara. On the
[0:08] NewsHour tonight, full coverage of the
[0:10] bombings in Israel with the Israeli
[0:12] ambassador to the United States, a
[0:14] Palestinian official, and two former
[0:16] American diplomats. And a weekend of
[0:19] protesting Cuba. Bettanne Bowser
[0:22] reports. It all follows our summary of
[0:24] the news this Monday.
[0:26] Major funding for the NewsHour with Jim
[0:28] Lara has been provided by the Archer
[0:30] Daniels Midland Company, ADM,
[0:32] Supermarket to the World,
[0:35] and by New York Life, yet another
[0:38] example of New York Life's wise
[0:41] investment philosophy,
[0:44] and by the Corporation for Public
[0:46] Broadcasting, and by the annual
[0:48] financial support from viewers like you.
[0:52] There was another terrorist bombing in
[0:54] Israel today. At least 12 Israelis were
[0:56] killed when a bomb exploded in a crowded
[0:58] Tel Aviv shopping center. More than 100
[1:01] were injured. Police said the attack was
[1:03] the work of a suicide bomber. He blew
[1:06] himself up next to a line of people
[1:08] waiting at a bank machine. The militant
[1:10] Muslim group Hamas claimed
[1:12] responsibility for the attack. Hamas had
[1:14] done the same for another suicide
[1:16] bombing in Jerusalem yesterday. 18
[1:19] people aboard a bus were killed.
[1:21] Yesterday, Prime Minister Shimon Paris
[1:23] declared war on Hamas. Today, his
[1:25] cabinet created a special strike force
[1:27] to combat the terrorists. It will be
[1:29] authorized to hit anywhere, including
[1:31] areas recently returned to Palestinian
[1:34] control as part of the 1993 peace
[1:36] accords in Taylor, Michigan. Today,
[1:39] President Clinton condemned the bombing
[1:41] during a campaign speech.
[1:43] It is truly ironic that the same forces
[1:47] that brought down the Israeli prime
[1:50] minister from within his own country and
[1:53] those who have killed the Israelis in
[1:55] the last couple of days have one clear
[1:58] thing in common. They both want to end
[2:02] the peace process. They live for
[2:05] division and conflict. And I ask all of
[2:07] you, my fellow Americans, to send a
[2:09] message to Israel. If you fight for
[2:11] peace, we will stand with you. That is
[2:13] the right, the noble, and the good thing
[2:16] to do.
[2:17] >> We'll have much more on the bombing
[2:19] story right after this news summary.
[2:21] House Speaker N. Gingrich endorsed Bob
[2:23] Dole for president today. Gingrich said
[2:25] he had cast an absentee ballot for Dole
[2:27] in tomorrow's Georgia primary. He told
[2:30] reporters Dole is the candidate who can
[2:32] advance the Republican agenda. What we
[2:34] need is a president who will sign
[2:36] welfare reform, sign a balanced budget,
[2:39] sign tax relief for middle class
[2:41] families. And I think frankly that uh
[2:44] Senator Do has done a superb job. Uh and
[2:46] I did vote for him this morning and I
[2:48] think that uh uh you know he's he's
[2:50] really I think he is the next president
[2:51] of the United States. And I think that
[2:52] that'll rapidly become clear as we go
[2:54] through the primaries over the next two
[2:56] or three weeks.
[2:56] >> Dole won the primaries in South Carolina
[2:59] and Puerto Rico over the weekend. The
[3:01] candidates campaigned in Georgia and New
[3:03] England today. They were looking for
[3:05] support in tomorrow's Junior Tuesday
[3:07] primaries. A total of 208 delegates will
[3:10] be selected in Colorado, Georgia,
[3:12] Maryland, and five New England states.
[3:15] There will be caucuses in Minnesota and
[3:17] Washington State. The US Supreme Court
[3:20] today upheld the right to confiscate
[3:22] property used to commit crimes. The 5
[3:24] to4 ruling reaffirmed the authority of
[3:26] local, state, and federal prosecutors.
[3:29] The majority said forfeiteures do not
[3:31] violate due process or constitute
[3:33] unlawful taking of private property. The
[3:36] ruling rejected the appeal of a Michigan
[3:38] woman trying to recover the car that her
[3:40] husband had used to patronize a
[3:42] prostitute. In economic news today, the
[3:45] Commerce Department reported personal
[3:47] income rose.1% in January while consumer
[3:51] spending fell.5%.
[3:53] Severe winter weather was blamed for
[3:55] both figures. And that's it for the news
[3:58] summary tonight. Now it's on to the
[4:00] bombings in Israel and the
[4:02] demonstrations about Cuba.
[4:13] The lead story of this day was the
[4:14] bombing tragedy in Israel. Our coverage
[4:17] begins with this report by Gabby Rattle
[4:19] of Independent Television News. Be
[4:21] warned that some of the pictures are
[4:22] graphic.
[4:26] The worst nightmare of the Jewish
[4:28] nation. Indiscriminate carnage in the
[4:30] midst of their biggest city, Tel Aviv,
[4:32] revisited them this afternoon.
[4:35] Among those killed was the suicide
[4:37] bomber. He is thought to have walked
[4:39] across the street into a crowd of people
[4:41] near a hole-in-the-wall cash machine at
[4:43] a bank and then he blew himself up along
[4:46] with those around him.
[4:48] The place is Diesengo Street, the
[4:50] Israeli version of London's Oxford
[4:52] Street. The timing of the bomb in the
[4:54] mid-after afternoon was calculated to
[4:56] kill and maim as many as possible with
[4:59] shoppers getting ready for a 3-day
[5:00] Jewish holiday. Children, many in
[5:03] special costumes for the celebration,
[5:05] were set to be among the victims.
[5:09] Not only did this latest atrocity come
[5:11] just a day after the carbon copy bus
[5:13] bombing in Jerusalem, this attack itself
[5:15] was an almost exact repeat of a bus
[5:17] bombing in Diesenov Street in October
[5:19] 1994 when 22 people were murdered. As in
[5:23] the case of Jerusalem, the brutal
[5:25] message of the terrorists was that they
[5:27] could strike twice wherever they wanted,
[5:30] whatever the emergency security measures
[5:32] imposed by the Israeli government.
[5:36] As it grew dark, the Israeli Prime
[5:38] Minister Shimon Perez paid a visit to
[5:40] the bloodstained scene, as he has done
[5:42] in Jerusalem twice in the past eight
[5:44] days. Distraught crowds have been
[5:46] venting their anger on him. What's
[5:49] certain is that the bombers are killing
[5:50] his dream of peaceful coexistence with
[5:52] Palestinians.
[5:54] Early this morning, Israeli soldiers
[5:56] demonstrated a new hardline policy when
[5:59] they raided the Alawir Palestinian
[6:01] refugee camp, the former home of two
[6:03] earlier suicide bombers. They rounded up
[6:06] a thousand men and arrested 30 suspects
[6:08] who were expected to demolish the homes
[6:10] of the families of the suicide bombers
[6:12] who are known to have been members of
[6:13] Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement.
[6:16] In Jerusalem this morning, a thousand
[6:18] extra troops appeared by bus stops.
[6:20] Another outward sign of the new security
[6:22] measures taken by the government, the
[6:24] war against Hamas announced by the prime
[6:26] minister yesterday. However tough the
[6:29] new arrangements, the Tel Aviv bomb a
[6:31] few hours later showed that the
[6:32] terrorists could switch tactics and
[6:34] locations and always leave security
[6:36] forces one step behind.
[6:41] >> Overnight, the Israeli army tightened
[6:43] the closures of Palestinian controlled
[6:45] territories as a first step towards
[6:47] setting up a 2 kilometer wide zone of
[6:50] separation in the West Bank. From now
[6:52] on, the Arab population will only be
[6:54] allowed to cross into Israel at a small
[6:56] number of checkpoints.
[6:59] The timetable leading up to the Israeli
[7:01] elections on May the 29th has now been
[7:03] thrown into disarray by the acts of
[7:05] violence. This month, Israeli troops
[7:07] were to have completed their
[7:09] redeployment from Hebrron, the last and
[7:11] most volatile West Bank city to come
[7:12] under Palestinian control. Today, in the
[7:15] wake of the Tel Aviv bombing, Israel
[7:17] withdrew its delegation from the Syrian
[7:19] peace talks in Washington. That process
[7:21] is now on indefinite hold. May was
[7:24] supposed to be the starting date for the
[7:25] last stage of the Oslo peace plan. Talks
[7:27] on final borders, the status of
[7:29] territories, and the fate of Jerusalem.
[7:31] Mr. Ferris himself has said there may be
[7:32] no point in those talks now.
[7:36] Tonight, anger in the streets of
[7:38] Jerusalem. For the third time in just 8
[7:40] days, the Israelis are mourning new
[7:42] victims of terror. And scenes like this
[7:45] show that their patience is running out.
[7:48] Now to a newsmaker interview with the
[7:50] Israeli ambassador to the United States,
[7:52] Itamar Benovich. Mr. Ambassador,
[7:54] welcome.
[7:54] >> Thank you.
[7:55] >> Any new information on the bombing
[7:57] itself that you can add to that report?
[7:59] The death toll still 13 12 uh civilians
[8:03] plus the bomber himself.
[8:04] >> Fortunately, the original Grim reports
[8:06] are accurate.
[8:07] >> Yeah. And the suicide bomber had 30
[8:10] pounds of uh of explosive wrapped around
[8:13] him. that that
[8:14] >> that is that is unfortunately still
[8:16] still all true.
[8:17] >> Is there any question about his ties to
[8:19] Hamas?
[8:22] >> No, it there's been uh there's been a
[8:25] version that uh this is an Islamic jihad
[8:28] operation, but frankly whether it's
[8:30] Hamas or whether it's Islamic Jihad is
[8:33] of little consequence right now.
[8:35] >> It's uh the the Is there any word on
[8:38] where he might have gotten these
[8:39] explosives or where he came from?
[8:42] um just just speculations. But the point
[8:45] is that uh this this is one of the more
[8:49] uh interesting uh curious points in this
[8:52] said saga that um one is focused in
[8:56] these situations on on the lone suicide
[8:59] bomber. But the lone suicide bomber is
[9:01] part of a network that uh there is a the
[9:05] original depot somewhere in in the Gaza
[9:08] Strip or in the West Bank and there is a
[9:10] distribution network and there is a
[9:12] supply route and there is a a preacher
[9:14] who does the brainwashing and then there
[9:16] is the operative who does the final
[9:19] dispatching and u obviously that network
[9:23] is what we have to deal with
[9:25] >> and that network is being dealt with now
[9:27] by this special task force that was set
[9:29] in motion today in Israel.
[9:30] >> That is our share of it. But there is
[9:32] another important uh share that is to be
[9:34] done by the Palestinian Authority. We
[9:37] have left Gaza. We have left the main
[9:39] cities of uh of the West Bank. Uh part
[9:43] of the territory is still under our
[9:44] responsibility and we all saw what we
[9:47] have been doing near Hbron. But in those
[9:49] areas where the Palestinian Authority
[9:52] holds sway, it is challenged with the
[9:55] need to do that. Is it your information
[9:58] that that's where these uh that's where
[9:59] this network begins in the areas that
[10:01] are under Palestinian control?
[10:04] >> This is where the political leadership
[10:06] of Hamas is. This is where the
[10:08] operational network is. Um this is where
[10:11] the preacher is. When when these
[10:13] demented young young men go about
[10:17] exploding themselves and 20 or 30
[10:19] others, it begins in a brainwashing
[10:22] session uh that uh almost invariably
[10:25] takes place in a place like Gaza or like
[10:27] Hebron.
[10:28] >> And what is the route this man took to
[10:30] come to this Tel Aviv shopping center?
[10:33] Do you know yet?
[10:34] >> No, we don't.
[10:34] >> Yeah. And when you say the preacher, you
[10:37] don't have a person in mind, a specific
[10:38] person. You mean you mean a type? Is
[10:40] that correct?
[10:41] >> No. No. We do have names of at least
[10:43] five or six preachers who have been
[10:45] doing this with impunity for two or
[10:47] three years now.
[10:48] >> Impunity meaning that nobody stops them.
[10:50] Uh and and is this a violation of the
[10:53] law?
[10:54] >> A of course it's a violation of the law.
[10:56] >> I mean to preach uh what they're
[10:57] preaching
[10:58] >> to send to send somebody to kill other
[11:00] people is a violation of the law as I
[11:02] understand the law. Yes.
[11:03] >> Yeah. And so but I I meant these people
[11:06] are not preaching any kind of gospel or
[11:08] any kind of religion. And they're
[11:09] preaching hate and murder is what you're
[11:11] saying.
[11:11] >> Hate and murder. And they do the the
[11:12] brainwashing that induces
[11:16] normally a young man in his 20s, which
[11:18] is the the type, uh to go to go ahead
[11:21] and uh and do that.
[11:24] >> Is it the Israeli government's position
[11:26] now that that to stop this that has to
[11:28] be stopped back there at the source, it
[11:31] cannot be stopped within Israel? Uh that
[11:33] that that the security measures just
[11:35] aren't good enough.
[11:36] >> Right. there is there is not a single
[11:38] actor that that can do it. I think that
[11:41] uh we have to do what we have to do. The
[11:43] Palestinian Authority has its own share
[11:46] and and then there are the other Arab
[11:47] states. The Palestinian Authority is a
[11:50] fledgling
[11:51] political organization structure. It
[11:54] needs the support that the established
[11:56] Arab states can provide. the established
[11:59] Arab states that are part of the peace
[12:00] process, that support the peace process,
[12:02] that negotiate and implement with us
[12:04] ought to help the Palestinian Authority
[12:07] in what obviously is a very very
[12:09] difficult challenge for the Palestinians
[12:10] themselves.
[12:11] >> What is the Palestinian Authority not
[12:13] doing that the government of Israel
[12:14] wants them to do in this particular area
[12:16] to combat terrorism like this?
[12:18] >> Um, they are not going through a
[12:22] persistent campaign. Uh this is not the
[12:25] first time the some of the earlier
[12:27] incidents have been mentioned and some
[12:30] uh some of the ring leaders the leaders
[12:32] of Hamas have been picked up, arrested
[12:34] briefly and then released and uh there
[12:37] has to be a consistent persistent
[12:40] effort. Secondly, a message has to be
[12:42] sent that uh this is something that uh
[12:45] is bad that is uh not only causes harm
[12:50] to the Palestinian cause but is abhorent
[12:52] in its own right. it ought to be
[12:54] denounced. There there can be no double
[12:56] messages or subtle suggestions that some
[12:59] form of struggle are legitimate and
[13:01] others are not. I mean all forms of
[13:03] terrorism must be denounced equally.
[13:06] >> Now this new uh strike force that was
[13:09] formed today by your government. Um they
[13:12] plan to move into Palestinian authority
[13:14] areas if necessary.
[13:17] >> I'd put the emphasis on if necessary.
[13:19] It's the the term really is not so much
[13:21] a strike force as a staff.
[13:24] >> This is a staff headed by the director
[13:26] of the general security service and
[13:28] whose main efforts are to to coordinate
[13:30] to plan to to think of uh fresh ideas.
[13:34] We have seen a situation described
[13:36] graphically by the reporter whereby we
[13:38] have seem to be always one step behind
[13:41] the terrorists. The main idea with a
[13:43] stuff like that is to be one step ahead
[13:45] of terrorists. Now, we do not preclude
[13:48] acting in all regions, but our
[13:52] preference clearly is for the
[13:54] Palestinians to do what they need to do
[13:55] so that we do not have to uh to go back
[13:59] to areas that we have already left.
[14:01] >> I read a report, maybe you can confirm
[14:03] it, that this particular suicide bomber
[14:05] had was headed inside the shopping
[14:08] center, saw some Israeli soldiers there
[14:10] manning their their posts, and then
[14:12] apparently decided, well, he couldn't
[14:14] get through there with his bomb. And
[14:15] that's when he decided to detonate
[14:17] himself on the before he got in. Is that
[14:19] correct?
[14:19] >> I've I've read the same report and and
[14:21] this this really underlines the
[14:23] difficulty of dealing with a suicide
[14:25] bomber. I described before the suicide
[14:27] bomber as part of a network that is
[14:29] where our hope is we can deal with a
[14:31] network. But the there's also a major
[14:34] difficulty that is to say when somebody
[14:36] is determined to uh to kill himself at
[14:39] all cost somewhere if he cannot do it in
[14:42] point A he'll do it in point B. And that
[14:44] is something that on the practical level
[14:46] is very difficult to deal with.
[14:48] >> Why were the uh peace talks with Syria
[14:51] suspended?
[14:52] >> Um they were not suspended. We decided
[14:56] as as a categorical move. Uh the
[15:00] government decided that the two days of
[15:02] talks that were scheduled for this way
[15:05] this week will not take place this week
[15:07] because
[15:09] the atmosphere is not right. uh when uh
[15:13] when Israel is in spin trying to deal
[15:15] with oncoming uh terrorist blows, when
[15:19] the country is in mourning, um these two
[15:22] days could wait. It's not a a
[15:25] farreaching political statement, but uh
[15:28] an attempt to do the right thing for
[15:30] this time.
[15:30] >> In other words, it shouldn't be read
[15:32] that this means that the Israeli
[15:34] government believes that Syria somehow
[15:36] is tied into these terrorist attacks.
[15:39] No, we do not believe that this
[15:41] originates in Syria. We we would have
[15:44] preferred that the Syrians condemned
[15:47] these attacks in in very clear language,
[15:49] but there is no conditionality here. We
[15:52] we did the government made its decision
[15:56] for the reasons that I've described
[15:57] below and uh we are expressing our
[16:00] displeasure at the Syrian failure to
[16:02] condemn the attacks separately from
[16:04] that. But we are not uh conditioning one
[16:07] thing with the other.
[16:08] >> As we reported uh from uh from Israel
[16:11] there, thousands of uh of young
[16:14] Palestinian men were were detained and
[16:16] then several were were arrested. Are
[16:18] things like that going to happen in the
[16:20] next few days? Is that what we should
[16:21] expect or are there any other kinds of
[16:23] actions that the government under this
[16:25] new strike command uh are planning to
[16:28] take or do you know? I'm afraid that
[16:31] there isn't that many attractive
[16:34] measures that can be taken in order to
[16:35] combat terrorism. But I think that
[16:37] everybody in Israel and outside Israel
[16:39] agrees that right now the priority is is
[16:42] to stop the carnage, to stop this uh
[16:45] sustained offensive terrorist campaign
[16:48] and we'll do whatever it takes in order
[16:50] to stop it.
[16:51] >> Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much.
[16:52] >> Thank you very much.
[16:54] >> Now, a Palestinian view of these
[16:55] bombings and to Charlene Hunter Gald. It
[16:58] is the perspective from the Palestinian
[17:01] Authority of Yaser Arafat. Hassan Abdel
[17:04] Rakman is the chief representative of
[17:06] the Palestine Liberation Organization in
[17:09] Washington. Mr. Rakman, what can you
[17:11] tell us about who's responsible for
[17:13] these bombings of the past few days?
[17:15] >> Well, it's obvious that those who are
[17:17] responsible took responsibility for
[17:19] their action. Uh they call themselves
[17:22] the cells of Yahayash who is the
[17:25] engineer quote unquote the person who
[17:27] was assassinated by Israel in Gaza
[17:30] through the explosion of a cellular
[17:33] forge about a month and a half ago. They
[17:36] call themselves the cells of Yahayash.
[17:39] So, but we understand also that those
[17:42] probably belong to the armwing of Hamas.
[17:46] Uh, a very clandestine small tiny
[17:50] military group who most probably
[17:53] received their instructions from outside
[17:56] of the uh Palestinian territories, the
[17:58] West Bank and Gaza. So uh those are
[18:01] >> like where from where
[18:02] >> I believe that there are members of
[18:04] Hamas or jihad Islami who are living
[18:09] maybe in Iran maybe uh uh in some of the
[18:12] Arab countries maybe in Europe in the
[18:14] United States I don't know but all we
[18:17] know that those are operatives who uh
[18:21] are uh uh engaged in acts of terrorism
[18:25] and we are determined to really
[18:29] approved this malice because we believe
[18:32] that it is directed mostly against the
[18:37] ability of the Palestinian National
[18:38] Authority to establish itself.
[18:40] >> The the wire services are reporting that
[18:43] Palestinian security forces have
[18:45] arrested a suspect in these bombings, a
[18:47] 28-year-old student at a teacher
[18:50] training seminary. Do you can you shed
[18:51] any light?
[18:52] >> I have uh no information on that. The
[18:54] last time I had communication with our
[18:58] headquarters in Gaza was about two hours
[19:00] ago and I have not heard anything about
[19:02] that. Mhm. Well, you heard the
[19:03] ambassador, Ambassador Ravenowitz's
[19:05] analysis of who these people are, not
[19:08] the suicide bombers per se, but he said
[19:10] that they belong to a network in which
[19:12] there's a preacher who stirs up things
[19:15] and brainwashes these young people to
[19:17] walk into crowds to like today and blow
[19:21] up people and things in himself. How do
[19:25] do you does that analysis square with
[19:27] your knowledge of how these things are
[19:29] set up? Well, I I don't want to really
[19:31] engage in pmics with Ambassador
[19:34] Rabinovich because I understand the uh
[19:37] situation he is in and most of the
[19:40] Israeli uh government and the Israeli
[19:42] public uh due to the regrettable, sad
[19:46] and senseless uh killing that took
[19:49] place. We have always to remember that
[19:52] some of the victims were Palestinians.
[19:53] Today two Palestinians were buried, one
[19:56] in Jerusalem and one in uh in Be Jala.
[19:59] So we have Palestinian victims also as
[20:03] uh uh consequences of those uh uh
[20:06] incidents. However, yes uh I believe
[20:10] that uh there is a general environment
[20:13] and the general environment uh is was in
[20:17] the past before the peace process
[20:19] conducive to this kind of uh situation.
[20:23] Now when the Palestine National
[20:25] Authority took control
[20:28] uh we moved on on those uh uh groups and
[20:33] we succeeded to a great extent to the
[20:36] point where we were able to conduct a
[20:39] free and democratic elections where 80%
[20:42] of the Palestinian people cast their
[20:44] vote in support of the peace process.
[20:46] But how do you respond to the
[20:47] ambassadors claim that these preachers
[20:50] have been able to preach hatred and
[20:52] brainwash these young people with
[20:53] impunity? He said for the past couple of
[20:56] years,
[20:56] >> you cannot really in any democracy uh
[20:59] arrest people for what they say. I mean,
[21:01] and I have not heard of anybody calling
[21:04] on Palestinians to commit suicide and
[21:08] engage in suicidal uh killing with with
[21:12] impunity as the ambassador says. But I
[21:14] mean he cannot site any incident. I
[21:16] don't want to get into polymics. What
[21:19] I'm trying to say in Israel there are
[21:21] rabbis who are calling for killing of
[21:24] Palestinians. I'm not asking the Israeli
[21:26] government to arrest those uh because as
[21:29] long as people do not engage in
[21:32] activities uh in actions you cannot
[21:34] arrest them. However, we have took
[21:37] preventive action in the past and
[21:39] arrested hundreds of people uh and we
[21:42] were able to really uh split Hamas and
[21:47] bring into the political fold many of
[21:49] the leaders of Hamas to the point where
[21:52] uh the last election showed that Hamas's
[21:55] real size shrunk from 40% when Israel
[21:59] was in Gaza to 8% when we took control
[22:02] of Gaza. Well, today a spokesperson for
[22:05] Yasa Arafat said he was very angry about
[22:07] the bombings and and said this was a
[22:10] declaration of war and that it should be
[22:12] treated as such. What did he mean about
[22:14] that?
[22:14] >> Well, we believe that those acts of
[22:16] violence, although are directed against
[22:19] Israeli uh citizens, but they are
[22:22] intended to undermine the peace process
[22:25] and to undermine the capacity of the
[22:27] Palestinian National Authority to build
[22:29] itself. It is not an accident in our
[22:32] views that this takes place a week
[22:35] before the Palestinian National Council,
[22:38] the Palestinian elected council is
[22:40] convened. It is just at the in the in
[22:43] the uh day or two days or three days
[22:46] before that we are building our national
[22:48] institutions.
[22:49] >> Well, you know, there have been calls
[22:51] for President uh for from President
[22:54] Clinton and the Israeli leaders for
[22:57] Arafat to do more. Do you think that um
[23:01] that there is more that could be done
[23:03] that hasn't been done?
[23:04] >> I think the I mean I understand the
[23:08] situation in the uh Israeli government.
[23:11] Uh I believe that some of the statements
[23:13] that were made reflect some panicking by
[23:16] the Israeli government and uh uh only
[23:19] play into the hands of the Israeli
[23:20] right-wing as as well as in the hands of
[23:24] the Palestinians who opposed the peace
[23:26] process. Because once you start accusing
[23:28] alfat of not doing enough, you are
[23:31] planting doubt in the minds of the
[23:33] Israeli public opinion.
[23:34] >> Well, President Clinton,
[23:35] >> I don't believe that's accurate.
[23:36] >> President Clinton said that it's
[23:37] difficult, of course, and everybody
[23:39] realizes that it's difficult to stop any
[23:41] suicide bomber who takes it on his own
[23:44] authority to go and blow up people, but
[23:46] but that everybody, including the US,
[23:49] has to do more. I mean, do you accept
[23:51] that the Palestinian Authority hasn't
[23:53] done enough and could do more and is it
[23:56] going to do anything different?
[23:57] >> Oh, what what we have been doing what we
[24:01] needed to do then probably we need to do
[24:03] more at this point and that's why
[24:06] yesterday President Alfad declared all
[24:08] those organizations as illegal and
[24:11] outlaw organizations. Uh we moved to
[24:14] arrest many of the leaders. Uh so there
[24:18] are steps and measures that has been
[24:21] taken in the last week or so. But what
[24:24] I'm warning against is really a reactive
[24:28] measures by Israel like the one today in
[24:30] the refugee camp. Why do you need to
[24:32] arrest to detain 1,000 people and arrest
[24:35] 30? This really plays into the hand of
[24:39] Hamas. Hamas cannot survive in a
[24:42] peaceful situation. They can survive
[24:44] only in a war situation. Why is that?
[24:46] >> Because Hamas, the extremism in any
[24:50] society is the product of despair, of
[24:52] deprivation.
[24:54] We have 50%
[24:56] unemployment in Gaza among our labor
[24:59] force in the West Bank. So closure by
[25:01] Israel of those territories
[25:05] affects the Israeli the Palestinian
[25:07] economy. Earlier today, the ambassador
[25:09] said that that the Palestinian Authority
[25:11] needs to go street by street, house by
[25:14] house in the areas where these suspected
[25:17] terrorist uh networks are and seek them
[25:20] out otherwise Israel might have to go in
[25:22] itself. How do you react to that?
[25:24] >> I I believe that is uh really an
[25:27] exaggerated reaction. I don't think you
[25:29] need to go from house to house to arrest
[25:31] people. I mean you should look think of
[25:34] the price that you have to pay as a
[25:36] result of that and what about necessary
[25:39] >> what what happens if the Israelis go in
[25:41] though if they decided that what the
[25:44] Palestinian authorities
[25:45] >> would be absolutely counterproductive
[25:46] and it would not and it would be a
[25:49] self-defeating approach. What Israel
[25:51] needs to do is to expand the peace
[25:53] process not to play into the hands of
[25:55] those small minority.
[25:58] I I cannot guarantee and neither the
[26:00] ambassador of Israel can guarantee that
[26:02] this man who committed suicide today got
[26:05] his instructions from Gaza or received
[26:07] the explosives in Gaza. He might have
[26:09] brought it in from somewhere in Israel
[26:11] itself. Nobody knows. Uh so let's not
[26:15] really react to this very strongly and
[26:17] move formulate rational policies that
[26:20] serve the peace process.
[26:22] >> Mr. Rakman, thank you.
[26:23] >> Thank you. Now, some analysis of this
[26:26] situation from two Americans who have
[26:28] been involved in making peace in the
[26:30] Middle East. Elizabeth Farnsworth has
[26:32] that.
[26:32] >> Both of our guests have been ambassadors
[26:34] to Israel. Sam Lewis served under
[26:36] presidents Carter and Reagan and more
[26:38] recently was director of policy planning
[26:40] at the State Department. He is now a
[26:42] counselor to the Washington Institute
[26:44] for Near East Policy. Edward Gerigian
[26:47] was ambassador to Israel from 1993 to
[26:49] 94. He was ambassador to Syria from 1988
[26:52] to 91. He also served as secretary of
[26:55] state for near east affairs in the Bush
[26:57] administration. He is now director of
[26:59] the Baker Institute for F foreign policy
[27:01] at Rice University in Houston. Thank you
[27:03] both for being with us. Ambassador
[27:05] Lewis, let's continue this conversation
[27:06] that Charlane was having with Mr.
[27:08] Rockman. Where do you think that the
[27:10] terror terrorism of this sort can be
[27:13] stopped or has to be stopped? Is this
[27:15] something that the Palestinian Authority
[27:17] can deal with? Is this something the
[27:18] Israelis have to deal with on their own?
[27:21] Do they have to act together? I think
[27:23] they do have to act together. I don't
[27:25] think there's any chance of stamping it
[27:27] out perfectly even in that event for a
[27:30] long time. But um the intelligence
[27:34] services of both Israel and the five
[27:37] intelligence services of the Palestinian
[27:39] Authority who have been cooperating need
[27:42] to cooperate a lot more closely. The
[27:44] authority has to roll up some of these
[27:46] networks. The Israelis are in a wave of
[27:51] the kind of emotion that I think anyone
[27:53] can understand with 60 people killed in
[27:56] the last nine days and carnage all over
[27:58] the streets of the two major cities. And
[28:01] unless there is much more action than
[28:05] there has been on getting at some of the
[28:07] really bad actors, the Israelis will
[28:10] have no alternative but to try to do
[28:12] more themselves. And I think that will
[28:14] have very adverse political
[28:15] consequences. But there won't be an
[28:17] alternative. It's got to be a
[28:18] cooperative job.
[28:19] >> But you said that even if they
[28:21] cooperate, you're you're not optimistic
[28:22] that they can stop it, at least in the
[28:24] short term.
[28:24] >> Not totally. But look, this is a no one
[28:28] has found a solution to suicide bombers.
[28:32] But I think that the key here is to show
[28:35] enough success to restore a certain
[28:38] degree of confidence in the Israeli
[28:41] public that their security, personal
[28:44] security in their major cities can be
[28:47] again given some confidence. If that
[28:50] doesn't happen, the peace process is
[28:52] finished.
[28:52] >> Ambassador Jerigian, do you have any
[28:54] comment on that peace process finished
[28:57] unless there can be some kind of
[28:59] progress shown on terrorism? Well, I
[29:02] think we have to remind ourselves that
[29:03] the Arab-Israeli peace process has
[29:05] always been a race against the violence
[29:07] and terrorism on the ground of those
[29:10] opposed to the peace process and on the
[29:12] other hand the forward movement of
[29:14] negotiations themselves. It has always
[29:16] been that way throughout the history of
[29:18] this peace process and now we're seeing
[29:21] a very u an extremely uh tragic and
[29:25] rough patch in these uh negotiations. uh
[29:29] the people who are the prepare who are
[29:30] really behind these acts of terrorism
[29:33] are obviously enemies of peace. I agree
[29:35] with Sam Lewis. There has to be more
[29:37] effective coordination uh between the
[29:39] Israeli uh authorities and the
[29:41] Palestinian Authority. much more
[29:42] coordination, but on top of that, I
[29:44] think there has to be more of an
[29:46] internationally coordinated effort to
[29:48] get at the uh international financing
[29:51] and support mechanisms for specific
[29:53] groups that are uh behind these uh
[29:57] terrorist groups. So, we need a u an
[30:00] effort on the part of the Palestinians.
[30:02] They have direct responsibility on part
[30:04] of the Israelis, direct responsibility
[30:06] for their own people, the security of
[30:08] the Israeli people, coordination between
[30:10] Israel and the Palestinian Authority,
[30:12] and then an international effort uh to
[30:15] try to get at the support systems behind
[30:17] these groups. And here I think the
[30:18] United States can play a major
[30:20] leadership role.
[30:20] >> Do you think that's one of the main
[30:21] things that the US can do right now is
[30:23] to provide intelligence and other means
[30:26] of getting at some of those networks?
[30:27] Well, it's not only providing
[30:29] intelligence, but it's really mobilizing
[30:30] the effort uh to uh to try to stem uh
[30:35] the support that is being given to these
[30:37] groups. But at the same time,
[30:39] >> you mean from the United States or
[30:41] >> well from wherever there are financial
[30:43] flows from the United States, from the
[30:44] Middle East, from other countries, uh
[30:47] there are weapons supplies, uh there's
[30:49] training. uh this is truly one of the uh
[30:52] the greatest challenges that the
[30:53] international community has in a
[30:55] post-cold war era is actually these
[30:57] forms of terrorism and in the Middle
[30:59] East it has a certain poignency because
[31:01] certainly we uh have invested so much
[31:04] the United States has invested so much
[31:05] in the Arab-Israeli peace process that
[31:08] at this very fragile stage I think the
[31:11] US's role is to maintain the structure
[31:13] of the peace process during this
[31:15] electoral period in Israel and during
[31:18] this this period of incident of
[31:19] terrorism to sustain it so that it can
[31:22] proceed.
[31:23] >> Do you think it can be sustained in this
[31:24] period given all these?
[31:25] >> Well, I think it's possible Charlie and
[31:27] I agree with Ed. Uh but I'd like to
[31:30] focus really on where the international
[31:32] problem is. There's a lot of evidence
[31:36] that the military wing of Hamas doesn't
[31:40] necessarily take its orders from the
[31:42] political wing in Gaza. that in fact
[31:46] there is a leadership group of the
[31:48] military wing of Hamas in Damascus very
[31:51] closely tied in with the Iranians and
[31:54] the Iranians are the major external
[31:56] supporters
[31:57] >> even though the ambassador the
[31:58] ambassador said he did not have evidence
[32:00] that there was anybody in Syria.
[32:02] >> He was he was quite careful about that I
[32:05] think and this is a a clear diplomatic
[32:07] problem. Israel is negotiating with
[32:09] Syria for peace. We're a player in this.
[32:12] Uh we no one denies that Hamas leaders
[32:16] and leaders of a number of other uh
[32:20] anti- peace leadership factions reside
[32:23] in Damascus. Nor is there much much uh
[32:27] ambiguity about the Iranian support and
[32:30] maybe even direction of some of these
[32:32] groups. Now, how you how you mobilize
[32:36] international pressure on the
[32:39] headquarters of the military groups in
[32:42] the territories is tricky. The US can't
[32:45] do it alone. Other Arab states, it seems
[32:47] to me, need to play an important role in
[32:50] this. For those Arab states that are now
[32:53] signed on to the peace process, and many
[32:55] of them are, uh, could have more
[32:58] influence than we, I would suspect, on
[33:00] this kind of problem. And and do you see
[33:03] any any evidence that that could happen?
[33:05] Are you optimistic about that?
[33:07] >> Well, I'm guardedly hopeful. Let's put
[33:09] it that way. We need to do a lot of
[33:11] diplomatic work. The Egyptians need to
[33:13] do it. The Moroccans need to do it. The
[33:16] Israelis need to do it with others. The
[33:18] Syrians need to be talked to. The
[33:20] Jordan, everybody has a role here. But
[33:22] unfortunately, nobody has much influence
[33:24] over Iran. And that's where I think the
[33:27] problem originates.
[33:28] >> Ambassador Gerigian, do you have
[33:29] anything to say but to that? you were
[33:31] ambassador to Syria.
[33:33] >> Well, I think the u the role the support
[33:36] mechanisms uh are diverse. The important
[33:39] thing here is that uh certainly we know
[33:43] that there has been Iranian funding of
[33:47] uh certain uh Palestinian uh extremist
[33:50] groups uh and certainly uh support uh
[33:54] and we obviously know there's a direct
[33:56] tie between Iran and Hezbollah in the
[33:58] south of Lebanon uh which is another
[34:00] dimension of of the problem uh not the
[34:03] Palestinian dimension but another
[34:04] dimension of the problem of of terrorism
[34:06] and acts of violence.
[34:08] But the important thing here is that
[34:11] it's not good enough for just Israel or
[34:14] the Palestinian Authority. That it needs
[34:16] an international effort, the regional
[34:18] level, at the international level, a
[34:20] multilateral effort on the part of all
[34:23] the actors and players and not only the
[34:26] uh parties involved in the peace
[34:28] process, but also some of the countries
[34:30] in the world that have a a stake that is
[34:32] equal to ours in a uh the success of
[34:34] failure of the Arab peace process. But
[34:36] I'm talking about the Europeans, Russia,
[34:38] Japan, and and others.
[34:40] >> I want to talk about the peace process.
[34:42] Do you think it can survive this
[34:44] >> and and
[34:46] I think it can survive this, but I think
[34:49] it is on life support at this moment.
[34:52] This comes at such an awful time in the
[34:55] electoral process. Uh Shimon Perez was
[34:58] leading by 15 percentage points just
[35:00] nine days ago. Now he's probably well
[35:03] behind. He's certainly at least even.
[35:05] And there's no way if you have a few
[35:07] more incidents like the ones this week
[35:10] that uh BB Netanyahu and the Lakood and
[35:13] the right-wing coalition will not win.
[35:16] Now assuming that were to happen,
[35:19] >> there's no way they wouldn't win if this
[35:20] >> they would clearly win if this
[35:22] continues. And Perez, who is the most
[35:25] devout advocate of the peace process and
[35:29] his colleagues, uh will do everything
[35:32] possible to avoid abandoning the peace
[35:34] process. But the Israeli public has lost
[35:37] confidence in peacemaking. And these
[35:40] waves of emotion have to be gotten over
[35:43] and digested to get back to a serious
[35:46] confidence in the peace process. And
[35:48] every terrorist incident starts a new
[35:50] wave. Now, I think it's possible,
[35:53] therefore, but I'm not very I'm very
[35:56] very worried at this moment that the
[35:58] peace process uh will gradually grind to
[36:01] a halt and then after the election begin
[36:05] to recede.
[36:07] >> And Ambassador Gerigian, if if Mr.
[36:09] Netanyahu, the Lood candidate won, what
[36:12] would that mean?
[36:14] >> Well, we have to be candid about this.
[36:15] Both uh Labor and Liood have a different
[36:19] vision of Arab-Israeli peace.
[36:22] uh LEUD's vision of a uh a comprehensive
[36:25] settlement is uh quite different uh than
[36:29] Labour's uh definition and vision of an
[36:32] Arab-Israeli uh settlement both on
[36:34] territorial issues on on the issue of
[36:36] Israeli settlements uh and and a number
[36:39] of other issues uh both on the
[36:42] Palestinian front on the Syrian front uh
[36:44] uh specifically. So the peace process
[36:48] would uh uh obviously take a different
[36:52] uh form if uh if lood came into power in
[36:56] Israel. Uh and we have to be clear on
[36:59] that.
[37:00] >> Might it stop altogether?
[37:02] >> Uh I don't know. That's quite
[37:04] speculative, but certainly it would be
[37:05] an entirely different uh uh process than
[37:09] the one we have now under uh labor. What
[37:12] do you think that we'll see in the next
[37:14] just briefly in the time we have left
[37:15] that we'll see in the next months? Um
[37:18] what kind of a of a a declaration of war
[37:21] was made against the Hamas and other
[37:24] Islamic jihad and other groups. What do
[37:25] you think we'll see? We've seen that
[37:27] there were a thousand Palestinians
[37:29] arrested today.
[37:30] >> I think you'll see I think you'll see
[37:32] additional
[37:34] direct efforts by Israeli security
[37:37] forces to follow up leads to roll up
[37:40] networks. You'll see less of them if
[37:43] there's more activity by the Palestinian
[37:45] Authority to do the same. But I think
[37:46] you'll see some in any case.
[37:48] >> Will we see anything?
[37:49] >> I don't think I I really don't think the
[37:50] Israeli government at this point has any
[37:52] political alternative at least
[37:55] >> to trying to do everything it can to
[37:57] reassure its own citizens that it's
[37:59] doing everything possible to protect
[38:01] them.
[38:02] >> Okay, thank you both very much for being
[38:04] with us.
[38:05] >> Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, a
[38:07] report from Florida on the Cuban exiles.
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[43:28] raise money. OPB does not have that
[43:30] option. Instead, the programs themselves
[43:32] have to sell you on the idea of making a
[43:34] voluntary contribution to support this
[43:36] station. It's your decision. But if
[43:38] you're one of the regular viewers of
[43:39] this remarkable news program, then you
[43:41] already know how pledges can improve the
[43:43] quality television journalism. Now,
[43:45] we're depending on that insight to
[43:47] convince you to pick up the phone and
[43:48] make a contribution of your own. Just
[43:50] pick up the phone, give us a call in
[43:52] Portland 2452345
[43:54] and toll-free 1 8002452346
[43:58] from anywhere else in Oregon or
[43:59] Southwest Washington.
[44:01] >> Once again, here are the thank you gifts
[44:02] we're offering during this break. Take a
[44:05] look at this terrific looking OPB black
[44:07] and gold collage tankered mug. Isn't it
[44:09] handsome? Well, for a pledge of $75,
[44:12] we'll send it right out to you. Also,
[44:14] you can have a matching OPB Black and
[44:16] Gold Sweatshirt if you'll support OPB
[44:19] with a $125 pledge. Your $60
[44:22] contribution to OPB brings you this
[44:24] delightful book, Where to Find the
[44:26] Oregon in Oregon by Bridget Batty
[44:29] McCarthy. It's a comprehensive guide to
[44:31] Oregon's special places that represent
[44:33] the essence of the state, plus a listing
[44:36] of the establishments whose products or
[44:38] services offer a local or regional
[44:40] experience. This easy to use book is
[44:42] yours with your $60 donation to Oregon
[44:45] Public Broadcasting. If you're in the
[44:46] Portland area, call 2452345.
[44:50] From the desert, from the valley, the
[44:51] gorge, or the coast, use the toll-free
[44:53] number 1 8002452346.
[44:57] About four and a half minutes left to
[44:58] have your pledge matched dollar for
[45:01] dollar. Don't miss this opportunity. Go
[45:02] to the phone now. Now you can enjoy an
[45:04] evening with Rick Steves, Public TV's
[45:06] popular host of Travels with Rick
[45:08] Steves, compliments of OPB when you
[45:10] contribute $120 to OPB. You'll receive a
[45:13] pair of tickets to his reception and his
[45:15] lecture on Sunday, March 31st at the
[45:17] Northwest Service Center at 6 p.m. Plus,
[45:20] you'll get two wonderful books, Best
[45:22] Travels in Europe and Europe 101, a
[45:25] guide to the museums and other features
[45:27] all throughout Europe. And of course,
[45:28] the books are autographed by Rick
[45:30] himself. Don't miss this opportunity to
[45:32] mi to meet Rick Steves. And all it takes
[45:34] is your $120 donation to OPB. Please
[45:37] call us right now. And if you're in the
[45:39] Portland area, call us at 2452345.
[45:42] Otherwise, use the toll-free number 1
[45:45] 8002452346.
[45:48] So take this opportunity to demonstrate
[45:50] your extra support for television a cut
[45:52] above the ordinary. And you can put your
[45:54] 75,120 or $125 contribution on Visa,
[45:58] Mastercard, Discover, or American
[46:00] Express.
[46:03] >> I'm Bob Edwards. You usually hear me on
[46:05] NPR's Morning Edition from 5 to 9:00
[46:08] a.m. on the radio stations of Oregon
[46:11] Public Broadcasting. Tonight, I'm asking
[46:14] you to call one of the numbers on your
[46:15] screen and become a member of the OPB
[46:18] television family. It's the place where
[46:21] you see programs such as McNeel NewsHour
[46:24] and Wall Street Week, Washington Week
[46:27] and Review, in-depth programs. Whether
[46:30] you listen to OPB radio stations or
[46:33] watch OPB television stations, it's
[46:35] worth your time and support. Thank you.
[46:40] >> Less than three minutes right now to
[46:42] make your contribution and that
[46:43] contribution will be matched dollar
[46:45] fordoll. Tonight, your $55 contribution
[46:48] to OPB on your credit card brings you a
[46:50] $10 gift certificate to the OPB store of
[46:52] Knowledge. The store carries a wide
[46:54] variety of items that stimulate your
[46:56] mind, your curiosity, and your sense of
[46:59] humor. Select what suits your family's
[47:01] needs from the OPB store of knowledge.
[47:04] It has something for everyone. Just ask
[47:06] for your $10 gift certificate when you
[47:08] donate $55 on your credit card to OPB.
[47:12] Remember, if you are calling from
[47:13] Portland, the number is 2452345.
[47:17] from anywhere else in our viewing area,
[47:19] all of Oregon and Southwest Washington.
[47:21] Call toll-free 1 800-245-2346.
[47:26] >> With about 2 minutes left, this is
[47:27] really a rare opportunity for you to
[47:29] have your pledge match. Now, maybe
[47:30] you're not feeling so flush this month.
[47:33] Maybe you can only contribute 20 $25,
[47:35] but you have the knowledge of knowing
[47:37] that it's really going to be $50. Yes,
[47:39] it's a great opportunity. Please call us
[47:41] now. Now, we know that only one out of
[47:43] every say six people who watches OPB
[47:45] actually supports this station with a
[47:47] pledge of financial support.
[47:48] >> If we were asking for a lot of money, it
[47:50] would be easier to understand. But a $35
[47:52] annual membership amounts to just 76
[47:55] cents a week. That's not very much. Less
[47:57] than the price of three postage stamps.
[47:59] >> Oh, less than the latte I had this
[48:00] morning. You know, that's just not much
[48:02] to ask for all you get. So, don't hold
[48:04] out. Help out. Just pick up the phone.
[48:06] >> Uh we're down to 1 minute and about 15
[48:09] seconds. So we need your support in
[48:11] Portland. The numbers are 2452345
[48:15] and of course there are the toll-free
[48:16] number 1 8002452346
[48:20] from anywhere else in Oregon and
[48:21] Southwest Washington.
[48:22] >> And don't forget all those wonderful
[48:24] gifts. We have the tankered. We have
[48:26] this wonderful book where to find the
[48:27] Oregon in Oregon. Uh all these can be
[48:30] yours for your gift for your gifting.
[48:31] The phones are ringing. If you've gotten
[48:32] a busy signal less than a minute to go,
[48:34] >> please call back. We do thank you very
[48:36] very much. Also, OPB wants to thank
[48:39] Frontier Communications, which is the
[48:41] long-distance company, for donating the
[48:43] 1-800 number service during our
[48:44] membership drives. We appreciate that a
[48:46] lot.
[48:46] >> Casey, we're doing well and we're
[48:48] cutting down about 30 seconds left. So,
[48:50] please get on the phone right now. We
[48:52] need your support. The number again is
[48:54] 2452345
[48:56] right here in the Portland area.
[48:57] >> And almost every single volunteer is on
[49:00] the phone. That's wonderful. That's not
[49:02] often that you the we weren't hearing
[49:04] the phones ring and I almost thought,
[49:05] "Oh my gosh, we don't have anyone
[49:06] calling." That's cuz they're busy. If
[49:07] they are busy, believe me, they will be
[49:10] free in just a few moments. So stay with
[49:11] us.
[49:11] >> We have a we have a lot of supporters of
[49:13] the McNeil of the News Hour.
[49:14] >> We're counting down now to 10 seconds
[49:17] and uh only 10 seconds left to get in
[49:19] and have your money match. So now let's
[49:22] return to NewsHour with Jim Lair on
[49:25] member supported OPB. Our time is up.
[49:27] Thank you for your support tonight.
[49:31] You can mail your contribution to Oregon
[49:34] Public Broadcasting P. Box 4373,
[49:37] Portland, Oregon 97208
[49:40] or call 2452345
[49:43] or 1 8002452346
[49:46] and your phone volunteer will be happy
[49:48] to take your contribution.
[49:59] Finally tonight, the weekend memorials
[50:01] by Cuban exiles. Betty Anne Bowser
[50:04] reports.
[50:06] >> The national anthem of Cuba.
[50:17] A crowd estimated at more than 60,000
[50:19] filled Miami's Orange Bowl to
[50:21] memorialize the four young pilots shot
[50:24] down last week by Cuban Migs off the
[50:27] coast of Cuba. When the government of
[50:30] Fidel Castro tries,
[50:34] as it has
[50:37] to deny that what it did was murder,
[50:42] America will tell the truth.
[50:48] >> The Young Flyers belong to Brothers to
[50:50] the Rescue, an organization founded by
[50:52] Cuban exiles. They routinely fly over
[50:55] the Florida Straits looking for Cuban
[50:57] rafters fleeing Cuba. The four pilots
[51:00] were killed when they were on such a
[51:02] mission.
[51:07] There was thunderous applause when
[51:09] founders of Brothers to the Rescue flew
[51:12] over the Orange Bowl in a tribute to
[51:14] their fallen comrades.
[51:17] where they were
[51:18] >> for Cuban exile Terry Zubie Zeraretta
[51:20] and her Americanborn daughter Michelle.
[51:23] It was an emotional experience. They've
[51:26] heard stories about Castro's brutality
[51:28] for years, but nothing prepared them for
[51:31] the reality of the shootown on February
[51:34] 24th. I don't think there's anything in
[51:36] at least in my generation in the years
[51:38] that I've, you know, been alive that had
[51:40] this kind of impact. And then you also
[51:42] look at their ages. I think that for my
[51:45] generation that kind of touched us also
[51:47] because it's a whole different factor in
[51:49] terms of your own im immortality. I mean
[51:52] they were 24 29 years old. I'm I'm 28.
[51:55] So and they were doing things that I
[51:57] don't think a lot of us would do and yet
[51:59] they were every day that they got into
[52:01] those planes they were sacrificing their
[52:02] lives for Cuba. Some of them had weren't
[52:05] even born there.
[52:06] >> No, they gave us they gave us 90
[52:07] minutes. Michelle Zubie Zeretta is a
[52:09] senior vice president in her mother's
[52:11] advertising business, the largest
[52:13] Hispanic ad agency in the United States
[52:16] with billings this year alone of $40
[52:18] million. For years, Mrs. Zubie Zeretta
[52:22] has been active in Cubaname causes, but
[52:25] the deaths of the Young Flyers has
[52:27] reignited her passions about Cuba.
[52:30] >> This has been like like a like a blow in
[52:32] the head. Uh it you know it has made us
[52:35] realize that uh that Castro is still
[52:38] there that Cuba is still crying and that
[52:42] uh we have to do something.
[52:43] >> Do you think there should be any kind of
[52:45] normalization of relations between the
[52:47] two countries?
[52:48] >> No, never. Not now.
[52:52] >> This is the position of a number of
[52:53] anti-Castro organizations like the
[52:56] CubanAmerican Foundation. President
[52:59] Jorge Moscanosa says the four pilots
[53:02] deaths have become a rallying point for
[53:04] the so-called hardline right.
[53:06] >> We believe that this is a turning point
[53:08] in Cuban history and it has redeemed the
[53:13] position that we have uh sustained all
[53:17] along you can dialogue with a criminal.
[53:21] >> Andreas Oppenheimer is a Puliter
[53:23] Prizewinning reporter for the Miami
[53:25] Herald. He has been covering
[53:28] CubanAmerican issues for more than 20
[53:30] years.
[53:31] >> There's no question that this has helped
[53:32] the uh the hardliners within the Cuban
[53:35] community. Uh this has uh pushed their
[53:38] agenda incredibly and has fallen as a
[53:41] cold shower and all the moderates and
[53:43] all the people who thought uh the US and
[53:47] Cuba could begin negotiations towards a
[53:50] gradual normalization of relations. One
[53:52] of the leaders of the pro- dialogue
[53:54] movement, Eloy Gutierrez Monoyo conceds
[53:57] his side has suffered a setback. Once a
[54:00] political prisoner in Cuba, now living
[54:02] in Miami with his family, Monoyo says
[54:05] brothers to the rescue was deliberately
[54:07] provocative with the Cuban government.
[54:11] >> Yes, they have done it with conscience.
[54:13] They needed those mart those martyrs. uh
[54:17] they needed them because it has proven
[54:20] that they have put an obstacle
[54:23] towards all the talks that have been
[54:26] done or anything that Clinton was doing
[54:29] with Cuba and trying to talk through a
[54:31] peaceful solution.
[54:33] >> Jose Basulo, founder of Brothers to the
[54:35] Rescue, says he and his pilots have
[54:37] never tried to provoke Castro. We must
[54:40] not waver in our efforts to bring
[54:43] assistance and support to those who
[54:45] struggle through nonviolent means inside
[54:47] the island. It is there where where our
[54:51] first priority lies.
[54:53] >> Basilto supports a third approach to the
[54:55] Cuban question based on the peaceful
[54:58] nonviolent principles of Gandhi and Dr.
[55:00] Martin Luther King. But Silto and other
[55:03] Cuban-American leaders believe that
[55:05] organizing flotillas that by flying
[55:08] close to Cuban airspace and holding
[55:10] demonstrations in a nonviolent manner
[55:13] will keep Cuban issues alive in the
[55:16] international arena. Over the weekend,
[55:18] Basilto and the brothers flew near Cuba
[55:21] to memorialize the four dead pilots. In
[55:24] the waters below, a flotilla braved
[55:27] 8-foot seas to remember the young Cuban
[55:29] Americans. The television pictures were
[55:32] broadcast around the world. A strategy
[55:35] reporter Oppenheimer says is working.
[55:37] The hardlands are seeing that brothers
[55:40] to the rescue through nonviolent
[55:42] peaceful
[55:43] uh moves have sort of number one
[55:47] challenged Fidel Castro's propaganda
[55:50] line that all Miami exiles are
[55:52] right-wing terrorists and number two it
[55:55] has attracted international attention to
[55:58] Cuban civil rights violations.
[56:01] >> This is a lot of the propaganda that we
[56:02] saw. 17-year-old Patrick Idalgo has
[56:05] heard many stories of human rights
[56:07] violations from his exile parents. Last
[56:11] summer, he spent eight days with a Cuban
[56:13] family near Havana. He says the
[56:16] experience convinced him that opening up
[56:18] relations with the Cuban people is the
[56:20] only way to make Castro go peacefully.
[56:24] >> They don't even know the good of
[56:25] democracy. And I think how can they how
[56:28] can they fight for something if they
[56:29] don't even know what it is? That's why I
[56:31] think we shouldn't isolate them further
[56:33] as a helms burn bill and all these other
[56:35] bills.